Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Parama

[DemonHybrid]

Not really. RVS and all that. Way too early to start making judgments about "OMGUS" votes however.

Faster we get a wagon up, though, the better.

[DemonHybrid]

RVS ends for different people at different times. I'm not ready to leave it yet. Things are starting to change.
Your vote: I'm not sure. It has a twist of randomness in it. Why do you think that Slaxx asking you to vote is encouraging RVS, however?
RVS wagons are the fastest way to leave RVS, not to find scum.

Unvote, Vote: boberz

Lets see what else you have to say. I might be ready to call off RVS after your next post.

[DemonHybrid]

It just shouldnt exist full stop. So I am not even having this discussion.

But...it does.

??

You're trying too hard to look town. I like my vote and RVS is over for me.

Becasue two random votes had just been laid down (including one from himself) so I just assumed he was encouraging a random vote.

Assuming makes an ass out of u and me.

How about we just never enter it, shocking idea. And everything should be geared to finding scum. I have no objections to RVS wagons though.

You're contradicting yourself a bit. You want to never enter RVS, but have no objections to RVS wagons?

Also, again, trying too hard to look town. I'm really liking my vote, so it stays.

[DemonHybrid]

But it doesnt have to.

Like 90% of the time, there is some form of RVS. You saying that you hate it that much that you'd rather see it completely gone instead of having a realistic view on RVS tells me that you're trying too hard to look town.

Perhaps, what do you think he meant?

The opposite. Asking you to vote is actually promoting the

END

of RVS. Why did you think the opposite?

If there is RVS, then RVS wagons are good. I prefer not having RVS and having nice big juicy proper wagons.

I'm thinking you're trying to cover yourself. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, however. Word things more carefully.

No such thing.

What?

Looking like town and -trying too hard- to look like town are two different things. And yes, you can try too hard to look town. That's why people say that certain statements or arguments seem forced.

[DemonHybrid]

I still think he was asking me for a random vote, if you truly believe random votes are the way to stop RVS then we really need to go to MD. I do not believe he was asking me for a stretched forced real vote (what he got).

I see it as asking you for a vote so that he could comment on it and try to end RVS faster. Which he did.

[DemonHybrid]

I see it as asking you for a vote so that he could comment on it and try to end RVS faster. Which he did.

He ended RVS? I am taking credit for it.

A vote was always coming in my next post. You really do need to look at one of my past games.

I see it as asking you for a vote so that he could comment on it and try to end RVS faster. Which he did.

No, he tried to end RVS faster. Like I said: RVS ends at different times for different people.

[DemonHybrid]

This is not solid logic by any means.

My logic wasn't to support my vote. My vote was still random at that point.

No, this is a pointless preference discussion.

We'll agree to disagree here. I didn't like his specific assertion that he wants RVS completely gone; that's a given and stating the obvious doesn't look right to me.

So you're not saying it's scummy.

Well, I'd say it depends on the context. I wouldn't say it's a scumtell here, even though he's jumping the gun a bit, but his point is a bit misguided.

*headdesk*
And you lost it again. Being anti-RVS does not make you look pro-town. It is not a tell at all.

Being anti-RVS shows that you have a thirst for info. It isn't TOO big of a town tell, but to me, it reads as town. I just don't like it when it's stated so obviously.

The only one who can confirm or deny this is Slaxx himself. You are also assuming here. Hypocrisy, anyone?

I suppose this is a good point, however, probabilities point to my statement, especially with the way Slaxx responded to bob's vote.

This is actually a contradiction from boberz, and you pass it off as nothing?

Well...it's impossible to tell at this stage. It's too early to be calling definite contradictions, so PERHAPS he could have worded his post wrong and since it IS so early, I'm going to keep an eye on it but let it go for right now. I haven't forgotten and won't forget, but it's really not a big factor right now.

MY GOD.
Welcome to Assumefest 2010, where we both make different assumptions and then call each other out for having conflicting assumptions without knowing who is right!
And, *gasp*, it's irrelevant either way!

See bolded. I apologize.

@DemonHybrid: You changed your vote within half an hour. I'm assuming that your first vote was a random vote. Was your second random? If not, what was it about the one post Boberz made between your two votes that convinced you to change your mind?

Yes, my first vote was random. My second vote was random too, but decided to stick with it after his reply to my vote post.

I cannot read him. Hate to dismiss the issue completely but he ALWAYS turns everything into a scumtell, whether town or scum. He's null for now, as are most players in the game at this point.

You know, I've only finished four games. I'm currently in 6 and still trying to find my scumhunting niche. For those games that I've finished, in one, I was completely right. One, somewhat right, but at different times, but wrong in the end. And the other two, I was scum, so it doesn't apply.

We'll see after all of my current games are finished to see how I'm doing, but I'm quite comfortable with my style as of right now.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't think I ever voted him.

Oh damn, you're right, you didn't.

Vote on Parama, then Unvote, then Vote on Bidderskins.

I could have sworn that you did. Let me look back again.

[DemonHybrid]

I remember making a point about you voting bob, but I don't think I did, looking back now. This is my brain fried from too much mafia.

Can someone make a sincerely legitimate case against Bidderskins? I'm lost as to why people find him scummy.

[DemonHybrid]

This game is going to be lulzy.

Weapons, what does that make Demons/Parama?

(inb4 he asks how I know him)

What is this i dont even

[DemonHybrid]

Scorehero, but the only person who I know from that site in this game is Parama.

[DemonHybrid]

METALFOOTBALL.

Dammit. Sup

[DemonHybrid]

Depends. They move fast at first and then slow down about halfway through D1 I'd say.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry; catching up late tonight. One game completely drained me and fried my brain last night and I have classes until 9 today.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, and I'm not leaving you at L-1.

Unvote

Still my top suspect, but I'd rather no one quickhammer. I gotta look over some things first.

[DemonHybrid]

So, yeah. I'm going to need to read over this and perhaps take some notes.

I'll be back with my thoughts. Sorry I didn't get to post late last night; could only post in some games and had to run everywhere like crazy.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm "rushing to his defense" because your questions are crap and are not scumhunting at all? I am not defending him, I am attacking you. At the same time, boberz is #1 on my scum list and I am currently voting him. And you claim I am defending him?

Admitted OMUGUS

vote: Parama

When some one finally put a serious vote on you, the first thing you do is vote at them. How can you honestly think Xine is scum when he only posted twice before you voted for him? And it wasn't as if they were scummy posts, on the contrary, the only thing "scummy" about them was that in the second post he voted for you. That's a textbook definition of OMUGUS.

Bub.

Read this.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=15167

This is why your case is a flaily, terrible mess.

And in response to Parama asking why I'm afraid of a quickhammer: People do it...a LOT. You should know this.

Bub's looking more scummy to me that bob is. Now...I don't THINK they're scum and scum, rather scum and town, but at this point, I'm more comfortable with a Bub lynch.

Unvote, Vote: Bub Bidderskins

I'm keeping an eye on the rest of the arguments...but nothing else has really stood out at this time.

[DemonHybrid]

Wow, talk about a missed point.

Parama made HIS case against YOU (A very legit one, I might add). So how is that an OMGUS vote when he clearly knew why he was voting you with logic instead of blatantly throwing a vote on you JUST BECAUSE you were voting for him?

[DemonHybrid]

Wow, talk about a missed point.

Parama made HIS case against YOU (A very legit one, I might add). So how is that an OMGUS vote when he clearly knew why he was voting you with logic instead of blatantly throwing a vote on you JUST BECAUSE you were voting for him?

EBWOP:

Wait a second, I completely misunderstood shit. Sorry about that, I'm in 6 games right now.

Regardless, he never voted Xine. He HoS'd him, but not voted.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP2: He never voted for you, either. I have to admit, I did do only a moderate skim of the game so far, only because there's so much I can read over 6 games, plus schoolwork and whatnot.

Let me put this in perspective.

Xine makes a case against Parama before voting him. Parama makes a case against Xine, but DOESN'T vote him. You vote Parama, claiming OMGUS. He makes a slight case against you, but doesn't vote you (which is what I thought I did. Parama has a habit of wording his cases very strongly but -not- voting).

[DemonHybrid]

Posting in to say that I'm going to re-read after the PSU game and figure things out, but I want to say that Parama made a GREAT point in his last post.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

None of the above are lies. I could say all this and be telling the truth every time.

Technically true if taken out of context, yes. But given the context I think the meaning is clear: I'm suspicious of berz but this suspicion is not particularly strong (which shouldn't be that surprising considering we're on page 10.)

Scum tend to make fewer definite statements than town - it gives them the ability to back out of their reads.

Yeah, clearly, if I hadn't been town, I would've either caught scum by now or exaggerated my certainty. *rolls eyes*

Either you're already convinced that three people are scum, in which case you're kidding yourself, or you just state your suspicions more strongly, which does not strike me as significant.

I feel like this is all a poor justification for something you were caught doing, and so far, the scummiest thing anyone has said all game. I felt Parama was extremely clear, and you still try to make something of nothing.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm cool with either a Bub or CES lynch....so, let me do this:

Unvote, Vote: Bub Bidderskins

We can make the necessary connections tomorrow. CES is still up there in suspicion however, so I'll be looking at him and his connection to Bub more closely tomorrow if Bub flips scum.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, you usually post more than this. Any explanation?

6 games and a ton of homework. SHM:WT drained the hell out of me and I've had a paper to write and an ASL interpreting assignment to do all weekend.

[DemonHybrid]

To add on, you'll probably notice my activity in other games has died a little bit too, so apologies on that.

[DemonHybrid]

My god. I would personally modkill Bub for that hammer, but I'm not modding.
At least he claimed scum for us.

How so? Self-hammering as scum is a good play if he knows that whatever he says could fuck over his scumbuddies.

Anyway, that was a crazy composure change. I wonder what the "oh crap" was for.

[DemonHybrid]

What dh said. You're not bitter or anything are you parama?

Do you think it has anything to do with implying a mason claim with you? Just want some information on this.

I don't think he outright claimed it, just a frustrated "STOP MAKING CONNECTIONS, WE -COULD- BE MASONS!" or whatever.

[DemonHybrid]

What dh said. You're not bitter or anything are you parama?

Do you think it has anything to do with implying a mason claim with you? Just want some information on this.

I don't think he outright claimed it, just a frustrated "STOP MAKING CONNECTIONS, WE -COULD- BE MASONS!" or whatever.

I'm talking about Bub saying "Oh crap" in post #300.

[DemonHybrid]

^yeah

Mod could you specify a length?

There's none in the OP so

Everyone may post until the lynch scene and flip are posted.

So, basically, in a couple hours.

You tease.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: boberz

Bub did nothing but ask questions on why people were voting for you.

You are right, one of my posts didnt come out yesterday. I made a detailed case and vote on Bub Buddikins. I will do it again in a sec.

unvote vote Bub

Sorry.

I have a feeling that this was you trying to decide whether you should bus. Your original case on Bub sounded like you had every intention on voting him...but you didn't until you felt you absolutely had to, did you?

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: I have a feeling that your original case on Bub was you trying to decide whether or not you should bus. Running on like 2 hours of sleep.

[DemonHybrid]

bob's last few posts of Day 1 is a pretty good indication of how hesitant he was before with voting Bub. He posted a case, but didn't voter....then decided to vote afterwards. Tried to make a case on Xvart....that didn't work. Bub then self hammered, and it was these two posts that really made me think:

What, claim mason then self vote???

He probably thinks restating exactly what happened in a "surprised" tone was going to get him town points. "Legit surprise AND questioning?! Wow, boberz must be the real deal when it comes to being town!"

I don't really get why xine did not vote for me earlier but did on page 10. I don't see any new case on me. Only a quote of me prodding Bub and an allegation I avoided questions, something that had already been dismissed by Parama. But apart from that I do not see much wrong with Xine. Much of the case comes from supposed scummy links with me but as I am not scum (from my point of view) I dont accept these.

Are you being deliberately dense? go read post 253, I very clearly explained myself. I did not attack you here for avoiding Questions from Parama, but for interfering with a line of questioning from bub to CES. BTW your attack of Xvart is horrible, if there ever was a case on him you have totally destroyed it with your terrible interrogation.

I did not even realise post 253 was a criticism of me. I asked Bub for reasoning, he failed to give it I can only assume he had none. Now with his self vote (hammer I think) and random wifomy claims etc etc it is safe to assume we did hit scum. SO I feel no remorse in criticising him for both his methods and his achievements.

I did not deflect questions, certainly did not interfere with the answers themselves. I attacked the questions and the motives behind them. Bub also failed to address this.

I have not totally destroyed anything, if you think there is a better case to be made on xvart then make it, don't criticise me for making a case I believed in. I accept the attack pretty much came to nothing and did not hold up to scrutiny but I have not prevented any future case from being made. But if you believe he is town this should be a good thing for you surely?

---

Unless I am very much mistaken he did just self hammer, without even claiming properly.

Then he goes off on Bub again, calling him scummy and trying to cut all ties he's had with bub earlier simply because his Xvart case never got off the ground. I see all of this as an unneeded attempt to gain town points, and usually "OMG I'M MAD SURPRISED!!!" reactions are just acting.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm willing to say Slaxx is town too, DEFINITELY so if bob flips scum.

He claimed with you! I thought he was talking to you. Either way he sounds a bit strange, it wasnt even a proper claim.

An attempt to pin suspicion on Slaxx.

When in doubt, ISO bobz. See for yourselves, he's been consistently defensive, overexaggerated and wishy-washy with his opinions.

[DemonHybrid]

I think as far as Xine goes, I'm going to be a bit more careful. I was really starting to think CES was scum near the end of the day because of his tango with Parama, so I'm leaving Xine as a definitive null at the moment.

I can see the case on Oso, but maybe that is JUST Oso. His suspicions were pretty flip-floppy; it was like every 2 posts was a different suspicion. It's pretty suspicious that he wanted the lynch on Bub but...of course, never voted. I'll wait to see what Socrates has to say, but I'm happy with naming him the last scum for now.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: (I think as far as Xine goes, I'm going to be a bit more careful. I was really starting to think CES was scum near the end of the day because of his tango with Parama, so I'm leaving Xine as a definitive null at the moment.)

Meaning since Xine was mostly going at it with Parama, doing almost the same things as CES, I don't want deja-vu happening again.

Fuck, I need a nap.

[DemonHybrid]

His replacement didn't even post yet...

[DemonHybrid]

I'm with charter on this one. bobz is scummy, but since the bandwagon is climbing and you just posted a SHITLOAD of "Let me try to figure out why CES was killed" when it doesn't even matter, I've decided to change my mind on the null read.

Unvote, Vote: Xine

bobz isn't off the hook. He's still unbelievably scummy. Soc.....not too far behind, I don't like how he can't think of an opinion for himself. I just read a 60 page game; 14 pages is peanuts in comparison.

[DemonHybrid]

Wow, talk about a complete fucking 180, Soc.

Vote will still be on Xine. Socrates is now above bob on the scum scale.

Two of these 3 are the remaining scum: Xine, Soc, bobz. Xine, please explain your ridiculous vote on Slaxx. I haven't heard enough jokes lately as it is and could use a laugh.

[DemonHybrid]

vote slaxx

sure it's a wifom trap, but I'm willing to engage the possibility that bub actually just

is

that dumb.

Offhand I'll say the bob case doesn't make much sense to me (I find it unlikely the top two wagons yesterday were both scum), and I'll look at Xine since he's getting so much attention.

Wow, you must be a celebrity to used car salesmen.

[DemonHybrid]

Anyway, I'm going to ignore the blatant naivety of your post and ask you a few questions:

1. Why doesn't the bob case make sense to you?
2. Why do you find it unlikely that two top wagons are both scum?
3. How do you know that Bub wasn't just saying "We COULD be masons" instead of meaning "We ARE masons"?

Bonus question: Do you find it funny that your post is about to completely distract town from lynching obvious scum?

Make sure to write your name at the top of the paper.

[DemonHybrid]

"Low opinion". Right >_>

And what do you think of Xine's vote on Slaxx, sir Always-right-a-lot?

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, and you haven't responded to a think WOMC said other than your flip-floppy unvote.

[DemonHybrid]

So, *shrug* to what seems to be a little bit of a softclaim? Why would anyone want to lynch a potential softclaim?

I know Slaxx said afterwards that it wasn't a softclaim, but we can conclude that the majority of the players here who read Slaxx's post at the time thought it was a softclaim.

What else should I have responded to?

Here we go with sucking up to Parama.

A minimal observation. This appears to help the town, but Socrates already admitted to sheeping with Parama, which means he thought Parama was town then else he wouldn't be sheeping which reasons out to that there is no reason to establish a disconnection between Parama and Slaxx since the Parama part is redundant. Feel free to ask for clarity if needed.

The scuminess in Xine's post is obvious, as others would point out. My original read of Xine wasn't that strong, and Parama has a tendency to tunnel hardcore, so that partly influenced my views.

And now about the style, Socrates now speaks with unwavering conviction, giving urgency to the purpose of dissolving the wagon as fast as possible, yet at this point, he has not even read the thread, and is clearly bullshitting to try and save his partner.

The panic feeding need to action pulls through in the voice of this passage. This feels like English class.

And now for perhaps what stands out as the most concrete scummy post. Earlier, Socrates hopped off the wagon and hinted that he thought Xine was town (scroll back up to see the end about night kill speculation), and now he turns his view around again in order to drive his desperation case. Lastly, the last sentence is the bad kind of AtE.

These would be a nice start.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: "So, *shrug* to what seems to be vote on a little bit of a softclaim?"

[DemonHybrid]

This is simple framing and interpretation with no logic to back it up. There is no way to respond to this kind of thing other than to say "No, you are wrong."

So. No. You are wrong.

Once again, this simply isn't true. I indicated multiple times that

I sheeped him

because

Unvote, Vote: Socrates

[DemonHybrid]

Also, are you saying that AtE is okay to use because you don't like to discuss it, or....?

[DemonHybrid]

Explaining my vote a little bit more:

You can't say that he's a "strong scumhunter" and that you're sheeping him and then say that WOMC is wrong about you fully believing he's town. That's foolish either way, whether Parama is scum (you're fully believing what scum wants you to believe) OR town (because it's hypocritical). Neither is pro-town.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry I didn't make my vote clear, point still stands however.

DH, I disagree with you vehemently and passionately. Being willing to follow other players when they put forward strong arguments is a skill more people should learn, but this is a playstyle thing. I can link you to a game where I have done this as town before, if you want.

First off, people should learn to keep their OPTIONS open and take everything in. To just sheep those who put good arguments out is a recipe for being made to look like a puppet after said person flips town, if they are town. You realize that's how scum who are actually competent at the game are able to make town think that they're lynching someone who deserves it...like 3 or 4 times in a row, right?

Second, I'm not interested in "what you did in the past when you were town". That was then, this was now. I was watching Casino Royale last night, the part where Mathis tells Le Chiffre what his tell is so that he is able to exploit Bond by faking the tell and steal his chipstack. Just because you do something one time doesn't mean it's always going to be the case.

[DemonHybrid]

It was the context.

You're saying "You don't know whether or not Parama is town and you aren't sucking up to him" after agreeing with him and admitting to sheeping (which would only make sense and would be smart if Parama was confirmed town).

This does two things for you:

1. It makes you seem like you ARE keeping all of your options open by saying "Parama COULD be town or scum, I dunno"...
2. ...but then you say "...but he's a good scumhunter, so I'm going to do what he says." Hello, townie points, my name is Socrates!

You're agreeing 100% with the person that makes the most sense without further reasoning, but want to be regarded as the person who's keeping their options open...AFTER the fact, no less.

[DemonHybrid]

I actually fail to see more reasoning from you other than "I think Parama's a good scumhunter, so I sheeped him. And I'm not sucking up to him. And he could be either town or scum."

So once you actually provide reasoning that is more likely to be true than what I posted, it's indeed scummy to me.

[DemonHybrid]

Christ.

"I think Parama's a good scumhunter, so I sheeped him. And I'm not sucking up to him. And he could be either town or scum."

Is that not exactly what you said?

[DemonHybrid]

Christ.

"I think Parama's a good scumhunter, so I sheeped him. And I'm not sucking up to him. And he could be either town or scum."

Is that not exactly what you said?

EBWOP: Meaningwise, not word-wise, of course.

[DemonHybrid]

Why is bob town to you now?

I guess since Socrates is being stubborn as all hell (not responding to my questions) and the Xine lynch is closer to getting done,

Unvote, Vote: Xine

. I don't care who gets lynched out of the 3 player pool (Xine, bob, Soc) as long as one of them do; I still have a grand feeling that 2 of those 3 are scum.

I would be almost certain that if Xine flips scum, Soc is her buddy. WOMC is.....eh. He's presented a great case against Soc and I just don't see the "opportunism" in his attack.

Lowell, after further review, is town that just doesn't know what the hell is going on.

[DemonHybrid]

No I'm a cop, just a tracker.

What was your day one report then?

I'm sure you meant you are not a cop.

[DemonHybrid]

Slaxx, what is the point of this? His claim makes no sense from every possible angle. It's like you're desperately looking for something you can believe about it.

I'd like more clarification on how you feel this way.

Unvote

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, what do you mean you want more clarification? What about his claim makes the tiniest bit of sense?

Her Slaxx vote.

I can't go through with this lynch until I see much more scumminess from her. This is all being taken way too fast.

Vote: boberz

Eye is still being kept on Soc, but I'm not going to vote for him now that I don't really think he bussed and then backed out.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, unvote right now you moron.
Why can't we lynch Xine faster?

And how dumb will you feel if Xine was telling the truth and didn't know how to express it right?

[DemonHybrid]

Xine is fine.

Soc, by association, is null now. He could have easily left his vote on Xine when she was L-1 and gotten away with it.

WOMC is slowly crawling up my scumlist, while boberz still has a commanding lead. Lowell also might be worth looking into.

My vote on boberz stays. I'm watching WOMC.

[DemonHybrid]

A mafia tracker in a mini normal. Speculate more.

You guys are thinking too hard about this. Now help me lynch boberz for having obvious connections to bub.

[DemonHybrid]

A mafia tracker in a mini normal. Speculate more.

I've totally played at least 1 game, maybe 2 games, with Maf. Trackers that were normal.

Mini normal?

[DemonHybrid]

I never cleared her because of that (Xine is a girl; Xine. Christine. Think of Xmas: Christmas), however, I think just out of nowhere speculation on mafia trackers is WIFOM and dumb.

[DemonHybrid]

charter, say it with me.

Xine.

X = Christ. That's why Xmas is Christmas.

Christ-ine.

Christine. Girl. Sorry, that's irking me more than it should.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, to add onto the argument;

The benefit of not lynching a CLAIMED TRACKER FAR OUTWEIGHS lynching him/her. It's a ridiculous thought to even do so, especially with the small bit of evidence in her Slaxx vote. It makes sense for her not to be

today's

lynch.

As for now,

Unvote, Vote: WOMC

because I'll support a WOMC or a bobz wagon...but for the love of fuck, guys, can we focus on lynching bobz later?

[DemonHybrid]

Also, to add onto the argument;

The benefit of not lynching a CLAIMED TRACKER FAR OUTWEIGHS lynching him/her. It's a ridiculous thought to even do so, especially with the small bit of evidence in her Slaxx vote. It makes sense for her not to be

today's

lynch.

As for now,

Unvote, Vote: WOMC

because I'll support a WOMC or a bobz wagon...but for the love of fuck, guys, can we focus on lynching bobz later?

Letting scum live is never a good idea. The sooner you learn this, the better.

So, you have the choice of letting a claimed tracker live for a night or two and seeing if their information matches up and lynching another scum read, and either finding out that it doesnt and lynching them then or finding out that it does and letting them live....

....or you lynch them now pre-maturely and find out that they're town. Congrats, you've just lost the tracker.

It's an obvious choice. I don't think or know that she's scum and her vote on Slaxx makes sense, so I'm for letting her live until her lynch is actually justified instead of being bloodthirsty and throwing away a claim.

[DemonHybrid]

I completely agree.

[DemonHybrid]

You aren't going to get a bobz answer, he went V/LA for a while. Worthy to note.

[DemonHybrid]

Cool, then you can answer Parama's question.

I am on the edge of my seat.

[DemonHybrid]

I have a class soon. I will respond afterwards.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, a meeting came up and more classes (I was able to quickly respond to my other games but not to this...)

But I will get back to you.

I just wanted to say that I am using that Ein picture for now on as a pseudo-FoS, IGMEOY or a "I'm waiting" type of post. So says I. =P

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

I need to do a bunch of reading and figure out what the hell is going on around here. There's been suspicion on nearly every person.

[DemonHybrid]

I just noticed bub was a roleblocker. tracker claim looks worse.

nou





....no seriously. You. You are the one starting to look worse.

[DemonHybrid]

Going back to the NK, I still can't wrap my head around why CES was killed. He wasn't really on to anyone but was still considered scummy by many. He would have made a perfect mislynch. It doesn't make any sense, and since he didn't ever build a case I'm wondering if the most obvious town people were to close to nailing the other scum and didn't want to draw even more speculation attention to the cases being built.

Ughhhh

There is absolutely no use to talking about why CES was killed. Absolutely none.

[DemonHybrid]

I was talking to Xvart.

[DemonHybrid]

Well then, this was embarrassing.

[DemonHybrid]

Xvart's willingness to talk about the nightkill is looking bad. He's also posted significantly less than everyone else.

Vote: Xvart

Seriously, you're starting to talk more and all it does is detract from the scumhunting. Bad dog, no biscuit

[DemonHybrid]

Yes.

[DemonHybrid]

Because everyone that's had one has acted so freaking scummy.

[DemonHybrid]

An attempt at mafia humor, and it's face is spat in by the circumstantial seriousness of Mr. xvart. Oh, the humanity.

[DemonHybrid]

lol? And such solid, accurate scumhunting it is. I will grant you that the case against me might be solid if there was more actual legitimate evidence supporting very circumstantial evidence and I hope to god that at least one scum is pushing my wagon because tomorrow it is going to look totally stupid that you lynched me based on what you have.

Do you not believe we're doing a good job, asking questions, creating small wagons to pressure, applying logic to situations, etc? Please answer while you sit there on your fanny constantly defending yourself and not contributing.

Chalk up another solid scumtell to my case. The fact that you are attempting to add to the flimsy case on me makes me think you are more likely town and trying to justify your spot on the wagon and not just scum jumping on to get a mislynch. But after your post about how scummy everyone wagon target is, I'm not so sure.

And why aren't you so sure after I said that every wagon has been the product of someone looking scummy? Which was common sense, almost obvious and comical to even talk about.

Preview edit 1:

I'll also add, not that it will probably help since it is "self meta", that if you think I avoid my partners and am stupid enough to completely avoid a scum buddy I actually have no problem bussing my partners, and bussing them hard. As scum, I will sell my partners out so fast to get a leg up in the game for my team. Completely avoiding is not an option for me as scum.

Have you ever heard of OJ Simpson's book, "If I Did It"?

PREVIEW EDIT TEW

Lynching town is only humorous to scum...

Because any of those people that were wagoned were confirmed town, right.

Oh, you say they aren't? Now wasn't that foolish to say in the first place.

[DemonHybrid]

Can you measure freaking in grams or liters? I'm curious to know how much freaking I need to make cases for now on, I think 6 grams of freaking is enough to call someone truly scummy, but I might have to talk to a chemist.

Oh, call yourself town more. Because you're totally town. And you're town. And this wagon is dumb, because you're town.

Oh, have you mentioned that you're town? Town town towntown town.

[DemonHybrid]

Say it aint so, Slaxx. Say it aint so.

[DemonHybrid]

Xvart, surely you can WIFOM better than that.

I thought it was pretty good WIFOM. His post made me about 99% sure he's scum, though.

Scum flailing. hammer. I don't want to hear a claim from him.

He claimed vanilla, just in case you ever bother reading.

[DemonHybrid]

It pains Ein to say this, but he will be looking at Slaxx tomorrow if xvart flips town

[DemonHybrid]

Slaxx, if you know you're town, what the hell can come out of you wanting to lynch yourself?

[DemonHybrid]

Lowell, you haven't made one attempt to scumhunt all game. Just throwing votes around and giving little side notes. I'm not liking this.

[DemonHybrid]

Parama, opinion on DH, GO

What about you? What's your opinion on me?

[DemonHybrid]

DH, why you so

curious

anyway bro?

Fixed.

[DemonHybrid]

Slaxx, why are you avoiding the question? What is your read on me?

And I've said all I need to said so far about the situation. I'm not Raikiri, I post short and to the point. I don't like Slaxx's martyrism. Is it particularly scummy? No, it's null, but I don't like the fact that he's doing it. Should xvart die? While he's been putting out good cases lately, I think that his earlier behavior's been iffy and I don't think that taking advantage of someone's insanity (aka; Slaxx's recent insanity) should be counted as being pro-town. It's not scummy, it's null. So I would like an xvart lynch, I think he's the best candidate. Plus, he seems to like to focus on WIFOMey situations. Can we think straight for just ONE day?

Like I said before, since Christine is fine, Soccy is fine (for now). And because of that, I see WOMC in an unfavorable light for the persistent attack and finding the little things scummy. Like he said, he felt like me. Until xvart showed up, he was my favorite lynch candidate, HOWEVER, I'm liking his persistence for information despite the tunneling. It's something I would do, most unfortunately stated.

I DO NOT like Lowell's play. Minimal scumhunting, throwing around votes. I don't care what Parama says about the subject. I haven't played a game with Lowell, therefore, I don't know his meta and I really don't care. He's gotta pick up the scumhunting now. Probably my 2nd favorite lynch candidate.

I have a null on Parama. I know how he is. And he is ALWAYS null.

boberz is my third best candidate. His behavior has gotten a liiittle more townish lately, but you can't deny that he pushed an xvart lynch when and only when it seemed opportune, then went right back on Bub while still keeping his vote on him the whole time. That's what you circus folk call a safety net. Until Lowell decides to get his head out of his ass and start pressing people for information instead of riding the flow, he will be my next favorite, but bobz is up there.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, and I forgot about charter.

Stubborn, but his thirst for information is all there. I think he suspects people for the wrong reasons sometimes, but he definitely should not be today's lynch. Like a high-neutral town feeling from him.

[DemonHybrid]

Here's my scumlist.

Most town to most scum:

Xine, Slaxx, Soc, charter, Parama, WOMC, boberz, Lowell, xvart.

[DemonHybrid]

Tone has nothing to do with how scummy a person is...I used that a lot and it bit me in the ass.

Xine, think about your vote.

Slaxx, stop it. What you're doing does NOTHING to help out town.

[DemonHybrid]

It's NEVER a good thing to force your lynch as town.

[DemonHybrid]

We're not going to get along then.

Guess not. I'd be voting you if there weren't so many people on the wagon for my other scum picks. You haven't asked a single question all game.

[DemonHybrid]

A tracker and a watcher?

I don't think so.

Regardless, what did you find, Xine?

[DemonHybrid]

Please do, Xine.

[DemonHybrid]

Xine is town.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: boberz

. See my early D2 case.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, someone protect me tonight now that I'm outted. We're going to need it.

[DemonHybrid]

Why should we mass roleclaim?

We're only 1 mislynch down.

FoS: charter

[DemonHybrid]

*sigh*

Does anyone else want a massclaim? I want someone guaranteed town on this.

[DemonHybrid]

You know me.

Is that a yes?

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

. I'll figure out my vote if everyone wants this massclaim to go through.

[DemonHybrid]

Everyone else claim and then I will. I want to see if anyone claims my role, then instalynch.

[DemonHybrid]

Actually...

I want Bobz to go last

[DemonHybrid]

Let's do this. Soc, Lowell, Bobz. In that order.

[DemonHybrid]

And I'm the doctor. It was nice knowing you.

So what do you guys think? We sure as hell can't have all townies.

[DemonHybrid]

VT. I'll need two skills.

What do you mean by this?

[DemonHybrid]

Well, I'm kinda looking at bobz, Lowell and Soc. I'm willing to look past charter's willingness to mass claim, and Slaxx has been nothing but townish all game.

I of course believe Xine's claim. I think if we do take care of the three aforementioned, we'll hit at least one scum and then make the necessary connections.

I suggest lynching bob/Lowell/Soc, Xine tracks one of the remaining two. Roleblocker's dead, so this makes things pretty clear cut and I think we have a good chance of wrapping this game up.

Soc/bob/Lowell, please give 1 post each on why you shouldn't be lynched, who your biggest suspicion is and why with a clear case and evidence to boot.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: I don't care for the order.

[DemonHybrid]

I think Lowell's claim is kinda sketchy. "I'm a VT, I need two skills"

First part = everyone calls themselves "Townies", as per the VT role PM. He doesn't.

Second part doesn't make any sense.

So, let me give you an incentive to making that REALLY important and mandatory case and defense, Lowell.

Vote: Lowell

[DemonHybrid]

Cool.

I claim vanilla townie if it matters.

In that light, as well, WMC needs a special mention for his claim.

[DemonHybrid]

Meh I was going to claim Vanilla Townie but I decided to be cute and copy exactly what charter said except replace it with second. I wouldn't make a case out of it.

Not that Lowell doesn't have his fair share ox explaining to do, because he does.

Quoting role PMs are bad bad bad. Mine says just Doctor though, like Townie. No Town prefix.

The biggest downfall of those fakeclaiming VT are those who never read the VT PM in the start. =) Keep that in mind.

If we happen to lynch Lowell, then I'm thinking WMC needs a track. I'm protecting Xine either way; she is getting her track.

[DemonHybrid]

And I didn't quote the role PM D:

I know you didn't. Just saying, you did the right thing.

[DemonHybrid]

And I didn't quote the role PM D:

I know you didn't. Just saying, you did the right thing.

EBWOP: I read "charter" as Nicodemus. So, that quote the role PM thing is just me being a dummy.

Carry on.

[DemonHybrid]

WOMC, I'm adding you to the list of people who need to post a defense and a case on your biggest suspicion.

So, waiting on all four of you.

[DemonHybrid]

Stop tunneling Xine. She's town. She tracked me because I might have looked somewhat scummy after xvart's lynch.

Can we focus?

[DemonHybrid]

Like I said, I would like the 4 that I mentioned (Lowell, WOMC, Soc, boberz) to post why they shouldn't be lynched, their biggest suspect and a case on that suspect with evidence. I would ask that everyone hold comments until after the aforementioned 4 post their cases and defenses.

[DemonHybrid]

So, Lowell and WOMC lynches then?

Or will you actually give us the defense/case?

[DemonHybrid]

You're kidding, right?

I would like a fresh new case on your biggest suspicion, not many small suspicions. I would like a reason as to why you should not be lynched. If you have posted evidence and don't want to bring it up again, then point me to a post # and we'll go and check it out.

You can't just say "I already posted it. These people are obv town", that isn't what I asked for.

[DemonHybrid]

Check #25, 28, and 41 in my iso.

Stuff on stuff after that point will come later.

As for my defense, wth. I'm town?

Also, why are you only requesting reads from your targets? Everyone should participate, including you, who should set an example.

Was looking for the bold. Don't forget that.

Also, I'll do it if it makes you feel more comfortable. Give me some time to make my argument.

[DemonHybrid]

Okay. As for why I should live and explaining my actions: The game started off as an RVS argument between bobz and I, in which I thought his reasoning was wrong. From a purely game theory viewpoint, I thought he was wrong and thought that the certain game theory he was using was particularly scummy in this case, so I voted him. From then, Bub posted his awful OMGUS case, to which I took offense to and voted him for it. CES dueled with Parama, so I switched onto him due to a poor justification of his case on Parama, and well, I thought Parama was pretty obvious town at this point, but since the Bub wagon was so far ahead, and I found both scummy, I decided to go with him. Lucky that I did, and lucky that CES was killed that night; I probably would have went after him afterwards.

The next day, I decided to go back on bobz due to what seemed like a forced connection with Bub. See my ISO #32.

Xine started using some WIFOM, so I voted her. Lowell started being scummy at this point. Soc 180s his viewpoint on Xine. Xine claims, I believe it, and by association, Soc is alright. I don't like WOMC's willingness to lynch the tracker, so I vote him.

Xvart uses some WIFOM and that gets the ball rolling on his lynch. Very regrettable, but no denying he was acting rather scummy. Now we come to where we are now.

I'd say that overall, my actions coincide with a scumhunting attitude and generally scummy actions instead of blatant bandwagoning and bad cases. My first night action was protecting Parama due to obvtownness. 2nd was on Xine; I'm not letting a claimed tracker die. I believe her claim.

As for my biggest suspicion, I suspect Lowell. HEAVILY.

Let's ISO him, shall we?

#0: Hops on to try to do a Parama wagon. Okay, sure. Nothing wrong with that in RVS.
#1: Tries to pin some suspicion on Slaxx. I don't think any of that is scummy, except for the fact that he "backed down", which I don't think he did. Poor excuse for a vote.
#2: People do this all the time. Null read. +scum points for Lowell.
#4: Hops on the bub wagon "just cuz".
#6: Actually BELIEVES the WIFOM trap. Terrible attempt to start another Slaxx wagon.
#8: Town points for paying attention? Not for the content? Weak attempt to buddy with obvtown.
#9: This post is interesting....and actually just catching it now, I see the weak attempt to put WOMC in a good light. Panicking? Also, a weak parroting to try to get Xine lynched. "Damn, we were so close..."
#10: Doesn't mean ANYTHING. Another weak attempt to place suspicion on Xine.
#12 and #13: 12 tests the waters for wagonhopping (this particular instance is complete null. town does this all the time too). 13 actually does it.

The rest of his posts are him putting more heat on xvart by saying "omg he's scum. he shud ded" and then trying to call Xine a mafia tracker softly.

Obvious lynch. But I want to hear his case and defense, because I'm fair.

[DemonHybrid]

This puts WOMC in a terrible light. Puts Slaxx in a very town light.

What do you have to say about this, WOMC? Something to put in that defense that I want.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, WOMC, when you post your defense, I want to know why you think Lowell is obvtown.

[DemonHybrid]

If Lowell flips scum, I'd say 100% WOMC.

[DemonHybrid]

Honestly, I think that would mean a Soc lynch or suspicion if Lowell doesn't work out. That my personal feeling.

It could just be a terribly timed read. But great point. Kind of worrisome.

I'd just put that in the back of your mind for now.

[DemonHybrid]

Plus, I don't think scum would put all of their ducks in a row like that just in case something happens to them. I'm banking on bad luck.

[DemonHybrid]

and EBWOP are neutral, but I'll get back to why Lowell is obvtown later.

I'll be waiting.

[DemonHybrid]

What do you think of his switch to the bub wagon?

Or his switch to the Xine wagon?

Or his switch to the xvart wagon?

Or his lack of a switch to your wagon?

[DemonHybrid]

Oh damn, he didn't vote Xine.

Apologies on that. Usually when you call someone scum, you vote for them though. Sort of goes great together.

[DemonHybrid]

Why would he?

Seeing as how every one that I mentioned was a major wagon, and Lowell wasn't around to vote Xine... (I'm sure he would have if she was still L-2 or L-1, excuse me if I'm being too forward on that)

[DemonHybrid]

Oh damn, he didn't vote Xine.

Apologies on that. Usually when you call someone scum, you vote for them though. Sort of goes great together.

Yeah, kind of like charter with Socrates.

So, it's okay when Lowell does it but not when charter does it?

charter's not the most town, but he's been scumhunting his ass off. There's a double-standard to this, you know.

[DemonHybrid]

Have I changed your opinion any?

No.

Even if charter did it to a greater extent, there is just so much wagon hopping, lurking and general scumminess that comes with Lowell that incriminates him so much more. There can be failtown, and then there can be scum. (I'm not saying charter is failtown all of the time, I just happen to think he's townish that has failed in that specific play.)

I mean, do you really think that Lowell hopping on the Bub wagon near the L-1 vote, then hopping on the Xine hate wagon without a vote (since it died down), then hopping on the xvart wagon near the L-1 vote "town"?

Weak opinions, weak attempts to pin suspicion. Use of WIFOM. "This is why I'm inactive" excuses. Subjective in who he finds scummy for the dumbest reason. Weak reasons to buddy with obvious town. A fucked up claim. And you find this town? Why, because he didn't suspect you when everyone else did? Because he weakly defended you? You do know that scum often defend one townie and one buddy at the same time, right? (when he defended you and I in that one post) And you do know that they will usually vote ONLY when it seems like they will blend in, no matter the alignment, right?

Have

I

changed your opinion on

him

?

[DemonHybrid]

You uh....didn't reference yourself at all in #848.

And I think you have it opposite, Weapons of the Mass Construction variety. I am the one looking for reasons as to why he would post them and you're looking at those posts at face value.

[DemonHybrid]

Lowell showing doubt in his read on Slaxx without others addressing it?

He never showed doubt D1. He just switched to bub.

Him saying that Slaxx is "useful" now is just a terrible way of backing away from a suspicion and even possibly a slip.

Voting Bub for no reason? Calling Bub dumb?

Bussing. Terrible attempt to distance away from his bus target.

Testing Bub's Slaxx wifom crap? In addition, do you think Lowell really thinks this would be enough to gain momentum for a mislynch?

I prefer the word "promoting". And yes, I really do think he did.

Not joining my wagon while joining the others?

Weeellllllllll, we'll just see about this if Lowell flips scum when he gets lynched.

Not joining in the boberz wagon in day 1?

Still in RVS stage. Likewise, he probably didn't have too much access, but I won't say much about that. I had forgotten about the bobz wagon, but it WAS a near-RVS wagon. Keep that in mind.

Also, I just noticed that Lowell said he would not vote Xine on the offhand chance she was telling the truth. So there you go for that.

Cool. He still called her scum and promoted her lynch.

Saying Xine's tracker claim looks worse due to a roleblocker being dead?

Makes no sense and is an attempt to try to reignite the Xine lynch and destroy her credibility. We LYNCHED the RB day one.

Openly speculating about scum power roles?

WIFOM.

Stating bluntly that scumhunting at all is not his style?

It's cause I called him out on it and he might not have wanted to take the chance.

Claiming VT with two skills?

A fucked up claim. He still hasn't explained it.

Can you think of town incentives for all of the above questions? How do they weigh against each other?

Not really.

Yeah, but still, that's what I meant. Would you answer that question?

Specify this. What I meant is that since you didn't refer to yourself at all, I assumed this question was about Lowell. If it's about you, then in what context is it?

[DemonHybrid]

Well there's your problem. There is a town and scum interpretation to practically every statement; what identifies their alignment is how they weigh against each other.

And there probably is. But that's why I suspect him; because I can't think of any when I view his posts.

Right here. Right now.

Seriously, what are you talking about?

Lastly, if Lowell flips town, what would be your scum team then?

Socrates, most likely. The second, I have to think about.

[DemonHybrid]

Do you think I am town?

Very very doubtful if Lowell flips scum. Somewhat doubtful if he doesn't.

I'll wait for an answer.

I would need more information for a second suspicion if Lowell were to flip town. It would probably still be you, but thinks could change by that point.

[DemonHybrid]

So, right now, somewhat doubtful. I think Lowell is scum. You're buddying with him like crazy. Yet, I still am not confirmed his alignment.

[DemonHybrid]

Cool, cool.

Waiting on bobz and Lowell.

[DemonHybrid]

Uh....that's all common sense, Lowell.

What does the 2 skills part mean?
Why does a dead roleblocker mean that a tracker claim is less valid?
Can you at least post somewhat of a case?

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP to #826

my actions coincide with a scumhunting attitude and generally scummy actions

Generally non-scummy actions*

I was sort of writing that in a bit of a hurry, apologies haha

[DemonHybrid]

From what I've read so far:

charter and bobz are very very very very misguided town. Perhaps very skeptical, understandable in their situation, but as someone who did protext Xine, her claiming tracker before I protected her, and then had her confirm that I protected her, I can assure you that Xine is NOT any WIFOM-ey mafia tracker. Doc/Watcher/Tracker combo and a bunch of townies makes a ton of sense too in a balance perspective.

Soc has definitely danced on the line between scum and town during D1 and D2, but after that last post, I consider him town. Generally forgiving behavior, willing to look at all angles but accepts the most probable one.

I really think a Lowell lynch is in our best interests. A protect on Xine, a track on WOMC, and I think we have this game pretty much wrapped up.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, I think Xine's track on Slaxx pretty much clears him.

IF by some chance that Lowell flips town, track one of WOMC/Soc. If Lowell flips scum, and WOMC doesn't visit the dead, VERY CAREFULLY choose two of charter/bobz/Soc (leaning towards Soc due to the Oso comment brought up by Slaxx). I'm willing to bet that I die tonight and Xine dies the next night, so you won't be getting a track; it will come down to epic deduction skills.

[DemonHybrid]

I kinda grilled you a bit because you were my biggest suspicion before looking at Lowell in ISO. You're fine for now. Help us vote Lowell.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, and don't quicklynch until Xine understands what to do for tonight. (reading posts #870, #871)

[DemonHybrid]

Bob, do you really think town would lie about their PRs and say that they're vanilla in this case?

If that's so, how likely do you think a tracker/watcher/doc combo is?

[DemonHybrid]

And if Xine is telling the truth and tracked Slaxx, who did nothing and who claimed vanilla, wouldn't you think Slaxx is telling the truth? You're overthinking things. Just vote Lowell, put him at L-1. Have Xine confirm that she read 870 and 871, then hammer. There's not much else to think about this.

[DemonHybrid]

"Not Voting: boberz, charter, Lowell, Slaxx, Socrates"

You'll probably wanna take Slaxx out of there. Not too important but figured you'd wanna know.

Thanks, must have missed it. Fixed.

[DemonHybrid]

Can we please just lynch Lowell now?

Hangin' me out to dry!

I especially like this. It's almost like you're giving up.

[DemonHybrid]

WOMC, you forgot your bus vote there, friend.

[DemonHybrid]

As a recap for tonight's actions:

Xine, I hope you read this.

Lowell flips scum: Track WOMC.
Lowell flips town: Track Soc or WOMC, do not tell us either.

If WOMC doesn't visit the person killed, carefully choose charter/Soc/bobz as the lynch. You probably won't get another track in.

I'm most assuredly going to die tonight and I'm going to a meeting, so if you lynch Lowell before I return, I bid y'all farewell. Bark.

[DemonHybrid]

#879 and #880.

[DemonHybrid]

If you believe I'm town, by association, Slaxx is town.

[DemonHybrid]

WOMC, I invite you to hammer.

[DemonHybrid]

charter is fine. Misguided and probably confused, however. Stay focused.

[DemonHybrid]

Mmk. As things stand, I'm not going to convince you to change your mind, so

I'm fine with a Lowell lynch.

WOMC, seriously. I know you don't want to, but saying that you're fine with a lynch and avoiding a vote and saying he's town completely contradicts yourself.

If you think he's town, you should be fighting tooth and nail to keep him from getting lynched.

If you're fine with his lynch, you should hammer him.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

So which is it?

[DemonHybrid]

So not only are you afraid to hammer him and try to look like it's okay with you, you want to extend the day so that information starts to get scrambled and off-task?

We're past the point of more information.

[DemonHybrid]

If you think he's town, defend him. If you think he's scum, hammer him. If you think he's town and you don't defend him, you're mafia. End of story.

[DemonHybrid]

I can wait 12 days.

That's a ridiculous notion.

Can you just lose already so we can go on to the next mini normal?

[DemonHybrid]

Thanks for the game guys. 99% sure I'm going to die tonight.

[DemonHybrid]

DH you're one of my new favorite players to play with D:

I will make you proud

You should do the hammer :>

[DemonHybrid]

Oh yeah, and I still think he's town, you realize that there's little point in defending him?

Again, you think he's town, and you hammered him. That's a contradiction in belief.

If you think he's town, you defend him to the very last breath with evidence, especially after you advocated for him so badly earlier.

[DemonHybrid]

Would you argue against a river in an effort to stop it from flooding your crops?

Bad metaphor is bad.

You should never resign yourself to allow someone who you vehemently think is town to die.

[DemonHybrid]

....yes? Hahaha

Here's a better analogy for you...you just come up with the worst ones:

Would you fight the river and put up sandbags to protect your crops, even though you know that the river will ultimately overtake the defense?

[DemonHybrid]

And the answer is "fuck yes". If the crops are all you have.

[DemonHybrid]

You'll be clear if I die and you don't go anywhere. Xine will help us out with that.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote Count 3.06

Lowell (5): DemonHybrid, Xine, Slaxx, charter, WeaponsofMassConstruction

Socrates

(1): Lowell

Not Voting:

boberz, Socrates

Lowell has been lynched!

It is now Twilight. Everyone may post until the lynch scene and flip have been posted.

Awwww don't tease us tonight, Nico. <3

[DemonHybrid]

This December pm me dh. Remind me to kick nico in the shin when I see him.

Why December?

[DemonHybrid]

Do you live near PA or something?

[DemonHybrid]

Not at college, I mean, when you're home. Like, if you go to school in Indiana and go home someplace else.

[DemonHybrid]

I protected Xine.

Maybe they thought I was going for Slaxx or something and went for the Xine kill. Or maybe they're creating WIFOM.

Who knows. I'm at square one with my suspicions.

[DemonHybrid]

So...let's think about this.

WOMC, Soc, charter, bobz. As far as I'm concerned, Xine is more than cleared. If Xine is cleared, I'm willing to wager Slaxx is.

Could WOMC's town outlook on Lowell serve to be scum knowing about his alignment and trying to gain townpoints by being the "told you so" the next day?

Soc...gave a good reply yesterday. A good explanation and it was pretty solid. Oso protecting Lowell (in that post that Slaxx mentioned) doesn't incriminate him. I'm willing to say he's town.

charter. I honestly have no clue. He's been doing a lot of scummy opinion parroting and wagon-hopping. But he's given a lot of input and done his fair share of scumhunting.

bobz has been out of it for the last few days. A bit lurky, and still scummy from Day 2.

Vote: boberz

for now.

[DemonHybrid]

Xine's report would be fantastic.

[DemonHybrid]

Could WOMC's town outlook on Lowell serve to be scum knowing about his alignment and trying to gain townpoints by being the "told you so" the next day?

I'd prefer you look at the town incentive side of things this time. What makes my scumhunting effort worse than charter's?

I didn't accuse you of anything. In fact, going with probability, you probably were just keen on your read instead of scum knowing Lowell was town. You did not explain it very well, however.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm throwing this out as a thought. Taking it as case value would be WIFOM, but it makes you think.

The no-kill is strange. Perhaps scum thought I was bluffing and wanted to kill Xine regardless?

What if we were right in the WOMC/Soc track plan and they decided to no-kill to reduce the chance of being found?

Meh. Need to review the game again.

[DemonHybrid]

Could WOMC's town outlook on Lowell serve to be scum knowing about his alignment and trying to gain townpoints by being the "told you so" the next day?

I'd prefer you look at the town incentive side of things this time. What makes my scumhunting effort worse than charter's?

I didn't accuse you of anything. In fact, going with probability, you probably were just keen on your read instead of scum knowing Lowell was town. You did not explain it very well, however.

Hear me out on boberz then. Tomorrow.

?

What about boberz? I didn't know you had that much of an opinion on him.

[DemonHybrid]

We're two mislynches away from a lost game, assuming 1/4 of total is scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, if we find WOMC or Soc visiting Xine last night, we have a caught scum, so I'm waiting on her report before I go too deep into cases.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm actually quite shocked at the fact that I'm alive. But like I said:

-They could have killed Xine thinking I was bluffing.
-They could have no-killed in fear that they'd be tracked.

Those are pretty much the two options.

[DemonHybrid]

In my opinion, scum thought they could manipulate you to help them.

How so?

[DemonHybrid]

Hi there, for my track, I got Socrates not going anywhere.

Alright.

Then it could still be one of the two options.

Mega-deducing powers, go!

[DemonHybrid]

Bobz, there wouldn't be 4 scum in a 12 person game unless it was really off balanced.

Just think with the rest of us.

Unvote

, I need to put more thought into this.

[DemonHybrid]

Let's start with some questions.

Socrates:

-I'd like you to post a case on WOMC, if your read on him still hasn't changed.
-What do you think of Oso's neutral read on both WOMC and Bub? His read on charter (still neutral)?

Charter:

-Your view on the no-kill situation?
-Has your view on Xine changed since the Day started?

WOMC:

-As said already, I'd like your opinion on boberz.
-You never fully explained your Lowell town read. Can you go into more detail about why you thought what you did and why it's not scum with a "told you so" ploy?

boberz:

-What did you mean when Lowell's scumminess was "just part of his meta"? Do you have any examples?
-Who do you think is likely scum and why?

[DemonHybrid]

DemonHybrid:
-Why did you only ask Charter what he thought of the no kill last night?
-Do you feel hypocritical for the amount of time you spent speculating on last nights no kill?

Charter spent the most time talking about your innocence and the fact that you could be a mafia tracker. I'd like to know what he thinks now. That and the fact that "Lowell was pushing Slaxx and that's scummy" was the only things he really talked about during Day 3.

And no; while there's no way for sure to know what happened last night, I never blamed anyone for going too WIFOMish about the no-kill last night. I don't think I am either; I just wanted his read and thoughts on you and what he could be thinking right now. I honestly think that him talking about a mafia tracker was WIFOMish, and while I don't want to promote WIFOM, his thoughts could be valuable as far as getting a read on him.

[DemonHybrid]

Yawn.

Who is scum Xine?

Same to you, who do you think is scum?

[DemonHybrid]

That was a Night 1 no context nightkill. Any mention of a nightkill like that instead of looking at connections screams WIFOM.

We have all PRs outed and there was a no-kill last night. Since you had a track and since everyone had their own opinions of different players in last night's actions, it's worth an aside mentioning. Completely different ballgames, but I understand your concern.

[DemonHybrid]

To be more clear:

We talk Day 1, lynch scum. A random VT gets killed.

"Why was he killed?" does nothing to add to the conversation, whereas "Let's look at his wagon" and "Who did he connect with" does.

Night 3, we have an outted Tracker, Watcher and Doctor along with all of these claimed VTs. No one dies.

Now that we have 3 days of discussion and connections AND outted PRs, without diving too far into WIFOM, I think it's legit to bring up charter's view of you, what the biggest probability of what happened is, etc. If we come to the probability that scum didn't nightkill because of a fear of a track, then we can narrow one of the scum down to WOMC/Soc. If we come to the probability that I protected your death, then we can effectively clear Soc. Information ahoy.

Talking about "Why the hell was CES killed?" when there are only two dead players ONLY serves as WIFOM.

[DemonHybrid]

@Mod: Prod Socrates please.

This game is stagnating.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh sorry. I thought it went by the "After 24 hours, user can prod" rule.

Carry on.

@Xine: What do you think of the possibility that Slaxx is scum?

[DemonHybrid]

Note that the question I just asked does not reflect my view. I find Slaxx very much town (pre-tracker claim prediction to softclaim non-PR townie, the probability of a no-kill and Slaxx not taking the kill as scum), but there is that possibility.

I'm starting to look at WOMC in this whole situation, honestly. I'm going with charter and saying that he might have not wanted to take the chance to be tracked + create some WIFOM.

Vote: WeaponsOfMassConstruction

to get the game moving. We gotta lynch someone, and I think he's our best bet. Maybe Socrates too, I disagree that this clears him.

However, charter, you also contradicted yourself a little, so I'm keeping an eye on you. You said that the probability is that scum no-killed, but it's a "bad play". However, you said that this cleared Soc. If we publicly declared to track WOMC or Soc, then don't you think that doesn't change the situation regardless?

[DemonHybrid]

Fair enough, good reply.

[DemonHybrid]

Yes. That's because mafia experience starts at mafiascum.

I'm glad I found a good lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

You were pretty vehement for a gut town read.

It's just an obvious scramble for pro-town points. I'm liking a Soc/WOMC scumteam.

Preview Edit: You realize that you've posted no evidence to back up your Lowell read...except one example. And it was the weakest.

The more you say "Lowell is town. Gut read." and "Bub said this. So town read." makes us believe that it's unnatural.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm sure.

[DemonHybrid]

Good luck. Soc's been missing from every game.

[DemonHybrid]

You know what would be hilarious? If DH was scum. That would be hilarious.

Right now, it's just plain sad.

The only confirmed PR is a Watcher. Tracker claims. I wait to claim, everyone else claims Townie, and I claim Doctor. Doctor, Watcher, Tracker; completely plausible set of town PRs. So are you trying to push suspicion on me? Cause THAT would be funny.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, someone protect me tonight now that I'm outted. We're going to need it.

Attempt to push Doctor suspicion onto others to protect myself in order to protect Xine that night. If this wasn't obvious to you, you need to re-evaluate your mafia skills.

[DemonHybrid]

Okay, then it's settled. Because an attempt to push suspicion on me would basically be you outing yourself.

I still don't like your play and am comfortable with your lynch. Forget about Soc. He can give input when he comes back.

[DemonHybrid]

Okay, say I'm lynched, flip town, and there isn't something trolly like poisoner to screw things up. Who would you lynch then?

Anyone but the obvtowns or bobz. I think bobz is fine despite what I blamed him for D2. I'd have to distinguish between charter and Soc.

[DemonHybrid]

There's still a "better" lynch, regardless of how much narrowing down you do.