Open 254 ~ Trust Issues (FvEvE) Game Ends

[singersigner]

/confirmation...affirmed.

NS...didn't we have sex last night?

[singersigner]

1. Pacific...NS, where're you from?
2. I've been a lot more active before these past couple of weeks. Not as much with school and band taking over now...but enough to invest in my games...if that makes sense...?
3. Pick another question.
4. I'm OCD. So order.

[singersigner]

VOTE: Nexus for being the last person to vote, and since there are too many vote's on Equinox to put an RVS vote on her for not answering her old questions.

[singersigner]

Count 'em. I would've been the forth vote, and for not having a legitimate enough reason to vote? Yeah, these wagons are stupid. lol.

[singersigner]

Gawddamnit, NS had three already, nevermind. Either way, these wagons are stupid.

Why would your answer influence others' answers? I see no reason why you shouldn't answer your questions now, unless you're just pretending that you actually had a reason for not answering your own reasonably standard questions.

[singersigner]

...what?

I'm not pushing Equinox...it was a joke about an RVS vote...

[singersigner]

Nooot following...

[singersigner]

For the record, I never insisted on anything, nor did I press the matter in any way, shape, or form.

Welcome those who have had yet to post, and have now posted!

[singersigner]

Thanks lowell, I love posts that have a random vote and nothing else in them.

What's the point of an RVS vote then?

In any case, these questions are getting us no where, and this game is currently stagnant, so I'd love it if Equi could answer his own questions, and why it mattered that

his

answers would influence

anyone

else's...

[singersigner]

I wouldn't blame the questions, singersigner. Why are you so obsessed with this, anyway?

Obsessed with what, exactly?

Also, I'm not blaming the questions for other people not contributing. Read the post I made (which I'm assuming you're responding to). I said they weren't helping us go anywhere, AS WELL AS the game is being stagnant. They're not mutually exclusive, but they're not contingent on each other, either. You brought up the point about your answers potentially influencing others'...and continue to disregard answering your own questions, which yes, has greatly peeked my curiosity as to why this might be.

[singersigner]

Yowch, a2. What corps are you a fan of?

Looooove that you two are DCI fans. Really, I do (and for the record, the Cavies are amazing). But please don't clog up the thread about it. PM each other instead, please. As long as it's not about the game, it should be fine. No harm, no foul, right?

[singersigner]

So is quoting posts out of order to misrep someone.

I no longer have an RVS vote any more, because that^, right there, is seriously scummy.

VOTE: Antihero

[singersigner]

Six* players are with chaos and two players are with order. Looks like a losing battle, singersigner.

...uh...what?

So for your questions:
I never had a problem with #1+#2. You're right; they give a good idea of how active people can be.

Ok, here's the problem I had with #3. It may not be game related, but it sure as hell looks like it, so we're going to take it as such. Backtracking and saying, oh no it wasn't supposed to be like that looks scummy. Contrary to what you think, it is NOT a standard RVS question unless you want to look scummy for asking it. It frustrates me that people invoke WIFOM simply to see the reactions of other people...that's WIFOM in it of itself. I don't think people had to react so strongly to it. Personally, I just didn't answer the question. The fact that some people got "so offended" because of it is telling of their defensiveness (quadz and jmurph off the top of my head).

#4 was just another question IMO. I figured it was more of a, how can we expect you to react to/play this game. Now that you've explained what exactly you were looking for, I can see what you're getting at; HOWEVER, now that you've explained it, I can also see how you might've just set me up for future NK WIFOM. Just throwing that out there.

[singersigner]

You quote Singer out of order and then dismiss her calling you out about it; I have read and reread that post of yours and it still looks like a deliberate misrep.

Ummm... what?

Not sure what you're not getting. Especially since you just admitted to your quotes accidentally being out of order...

That would only hold up if I actually put the quotes in the order they appeared.

Really? I think it holds up as is because when people list quotes, sometimes others don't go back and read the originals. Therefore, listing someone's quotes out of order to make an argument is misrepping. Can you explain why you disagree?

So, it's my fault that people might not actually read my post?

lol. Really? You're arguing that even though YOU put posts out of order, so it's not YOUR fault that people don't go check to see if you're really posting legitimate quotes, etc? While I agree that everyone should be accountable for double checking people's posts and stuff, you now have two people who called you out on misrepping someone (intentionally or not). This is the worst counter-argument I've ever seen.

...what?

I'm not pushing Equinox...it was a joke about an RVS vote...

This is what singer said when I said that her equinox push doesn't have any merit.

Right. That so called "push" was nothing. It was an RVS vote. You then quote this next (I'll address the quote itself before the part in orange that you're explaining it with.):

Really? What's this then:

Why would your answer influence others' answers? I see no reason why you shouldn't answer your questions now, unless you're just pretending that you actually had a reason for not answering your own reasonably standard questions.

This was mutually exclusive from the random reason I voted her before. She responded with "I'll answer my own questions last" (or something to that extend) to someone else's post. THIS was my response to something NEW.

This is what she said previously. I put the original quote first and then pointed out something she said previously. I guess you I could have posted them in reverse order, but I think that would have been pretty awkward. Please tell me how changing the order subverts the meaning of the post.

Well, I just did, by explaining that. But let me explain further: you're not getting it. If you see my posts in ISO, I can understand how it

might

look somewhat like what you're getting at...? But 1. You need to look at it in context, and you wouldn't have had anything to ISO me for if you didn't see it in context originally, and 2. You do not EVER make a point where the order of the posts ABSOLUTELY matter, and then say "well I don't see how it changes the meaning." Of course it changes the meaning. If you were simply giving examples, I can see why it wouldn't matter, because examples are mutually exclusive from one another. But since you're claiming that my posts are "pushing" a matter, which quite frankly, I'm fairly unconcerned with now, that is indicative of my posting order/responses, then, yes, it matters a lot.

For the record, I never insisted on anything, nor did I press the matter in any way, shape, or form.

Welcome those who have had yet to post, and have now posted!

I stand by what I said. I wasn't insisting. I made an RVS vote for the random reason that Equinox hadn't answered her own questions yet. Then in response to her saying

why

she hadn't answered her questions, I said "why not?" Then I said ^this.

Backtracking is bad

I didn't backtrack. Not sure where you got the impression that I did. Oh wait, you're scum.

Any more confusion?

Fixed as requested.

[singersigner]

EBWOP. That last "

" is where the bold should start. Not with the above quote.

Also, in case you couldn't tell, the bolded are my comments.

Send me what it should look like.

[singersigner]

First off, you're taking about twice as much space as you need to make your "point."

I read this as, damnit, she's right, now how to counter this...

lol. Really? You're arguing that even though YOU put posts out of order, so it's not YOUR fault that people don't go check to see if you're really posting legitimate quotes, etc? While I agree that everyone should be accountable for double checking people's posts and stuff, you now have two people who called you out on misrepping someone (intentionally or not). This is the worst counter-argument I've ever seen.

I never admitted to accidentally posting the quotes out of order.

Really?

Hmmm... The cut and paste fail really mucks up the post. Let's fix that.

This is where I acknowledged the mistake. You're not reacting at all like someone who genuinely made a mistake, though.

What's with the nitpicking about the order of the quotes? They were that way because of how I organize my posts; it's not a scumtell, stop finagling it into one.

I'm only commenting on this because of the ridiculousness of it. You're either a really bad town, or even worse scum who's trying to pull off not understanding why the order matters

in this case

.

I made an RVS vote for the random reason that Equinox hadn't answered her own questions yet. Then in response to her saying why she hadn't answered her questions,

OK, call me crazy, but the diction of this doesn't sound like playfull randomness.

You're gunna have to explain what you mean by "the diction part." I'm not following what exactly you're pointing out here, since the post I'm referring to was literally just an RVS vote...not even on Equinox, no less. You also quoted a fragment...was that to make a point, too? Or did you just fail to realize it didn't make sense since you cut off the rest of the sentence from the start?

Why would your answer influence others' answers? I see no reason why you shouldn't answer your questions now,

unless you're just pretending that you actually had a reason for not answering your own reasonably standard questions

.

Are you going to now try to deny that there wasn't even a hint of accusation in there?

There was a hint. You're right. The first hint ever of accusing her of suspicious activity-IN RESPONSE TO HER LACK OF ANSWERS (I put it in caps not because I'm yelling out of frustration, but because I don't trust your ability to figure it out yourself). My point was that you were trying to make it seem like I was pushing something, or accusing her or something before it even mattered, when it's very clear that I wasn't.

[singersigner]

This is where I acknowledged the mistake. You're not reacting at all like someone who genuinely made a mistake, though.

That was an honest copy/paste mistake, and that should be obvious from the post. You are really not building a case off of THAT are you?

No I'm not. Like I said, I understand and acknowledge that it was a mistake. But then you reacted like there was nothing to come of it, when honestly, mistake or not, until it was pointed out, you didn't make a big deal out of it. The reason I insulted your reading comprehension is because I, and Sevei, both explained to you why it was scummy, and yet you STILL didn't acknowledge that posting those quotes out of order AND out of context was making some hell of a case that didn't exist.

I apologize that it came off as attacking your character. It was about your lack of responding to the one critical detail that makes you look scummy as hell to me.

[singersigner]

I'd like to know from springlullaby what exactly about Pomegranate is "obvious scum."

[singersigner]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: quadz08

What? Why?

[singersigner]

Well, not that I entirely disagree, but you haven't even given reasons for the vote/change of heart, which is what I'm curious about.

[singersigner]

What are you saving for after your V/LA? A vote on Antihero? Or do you just not find him as scummy anymore? And right, I looked back and saw your case on quadz, sorry. I just don't know why you switched your vote just like that.

[singersigner]

Reviewing the argument you and Sevei were having with him. I was under the impression it was over how he ordered your quotes, but now that I realized he'd actually messed up the quote tags, I may have missed the gist of the argument entirely... so I have to look again, but after Wednesday.

singersigner: It was a revote. My vote was on quadz08 earlier, and then I switched to Antihero when I thought he backpedaled. Now that Antihero has explained that it wasn't a backpedal, Antihero isn't my top suspect anymore.

Part one: It was over how he ordered the votes. But then I felt like he was misrepping what I said because it looks worse out of context. It needed to be read in context to understand why I was saying what I was saying, etc.

Part two: Ah, that makes more sense. Carry on.

[singersigner]

VOTE: quadz08
You haven't done much of anything for this game except post fluff to make it look like you're contributing, when you're really not. The couple times you've posted any content were in response to Equinox's RQS, and dwelling on how it seemed like rolefishing. It seems to me like you're a little too concerned with that.

[singersigner]

Wow, I got a prod after 48 hours+one...kind of ridiculous, but alright.

Posting...

[singersigner]

Uite...I originally thought there were three votes on him, and since it was RVS, I didn't need to put a forth. That statement alone was made to say that if I felt comfortable putting a random vote on someone with that many votes at the time, it would've been him, for the random reason of her not answering her own questions. I don't know why we're still on it. I didn't make a big deal out of Equinox not answering her own questions until she got *I felt* unreasonably defensive over it.

V/LA through Sunday night.

Noted.

[singersigner]

Ok. Here are my thoughts:

Zed and Quadz are on rivaling "enemies" and are hopping on what looks like the easiest lynch for them. Because of Antihero's response to Zed's vote, I'm gunna guess that he and Quadz are in it together. I might be ok with a Zed lynch if it gets too close to the deadline, even though my biggest gut it telling me quadz. Because of how they've been interacting...seems to me not like TvT, but SvS.

Uite's been asking good questions, and I feel like I missed one directed at me somewhere in there, so I'll go back, take a look at it, and respond later...or now (found them)...

Uite...I originally thought there were three votes on him, and since it was RVS, I didn't need to put a forth. That statement alone was made to say that if I felt comfortable putting a random vote on someone with that many votes at the time, it would've been him, for the random reason of her not answering her own questions.

Disregarding your miscount, why do you feel four votes is too much for RVS?

I didn't make a big deal out of Equinox not answering her own questions until she got *I felt* unreasonably defensive over it.

Do you think her defensiveness was in line with your agression? Why/why not?

(I will not respond within the quote as per request. I've only found that easier because I know people can see exactly what I'm responding to, where, and doesn't allow for any sort of misunderstanding)
NOW
Q 1. I feel there's no reason to put a vote on someone you haven't particularly founds scummy yet, when they've already had several votes cast against them.
Q 2. To clarify, is this before or after she had denied answering the questions herself? Is the implication that I was being aggressive about her answering her own questions? If so, no. She had very clearly stated that she had her own reasons for not answering the questions, and I felt her defensiveness came about because she got stuck in a corner once people realized it was kind of scummy to keep refusing after people have asked her to answer. I believe I explained later that I felt her explanation for not answering was valid, but weak at the same time. It was very much gone about in the wrong way.

[singersigner]

Uite...I think answering questions last is ok sometimes, but not when you've put a question out there that's been misconstrued to be a role-fishing question. It just seemed like she was looking for information that she could've used to misrep or look scummy later, while not allowing herself to do the same. It didn't feel right...though I don't like how some of the people reacted to the question either. Off the top of my head, Quadz seemed unreasonably defensive over it.

As far as 4 votes being too much for RVS...I don't feel comfortable getting to an L-2 situation, with at least (probably) four different anti-towns here, and only 7 to lynch. Too much allowance for making excuses to get to a quick-lynch. That might not seem like enough for you to hold back (to each their own), but it is for me.

[singersigner]

A couple things...

You're posting a lot of processing information, but not a whole lot of analyzing that information.

I'm confused as to why I gave you town vibes, and now you're decided I'm scum against scum-Antihero...

[singersigner]

Alright, fair enough. I'll look forward to your analysis tomorrow, then.

[singersigner]

@ Uite: Site rules say "Play to win the game." Self-voting is playing against your win condition, which falls under that rule.

You let Flay self-vote in Newbie 980 with no repercussions, and the same rule of "play to win." Why is this different?

[singersigner]

Zed wouldn't be the last scum either...I'm confused...Quadz is the lynch for today...that is all.

Please stop talking about mod-WIFOM...

[singersigner]

I keep track of the votes in a spreadsheet, and I've just noticed something odd. Excepting Zed's selfvote, there is NO overlap between the voters for Chesskid and Quadz. The only player who hasn't voted for either is springlullaby, who has kept her vote on Pomegranate the entire time. Now, what's interesting here is that the group voting for Chesskid contains the more suspicious players, while the group voting for Quadz contains the least suspicious players, according to my reads. To me that suggests that scum are trying to force a Chesskid lynch. However, there are more people voting for Chesskid than there are scum, so I'd like to ask the townies voting for him to change their votes to Quadz.

I don't like this last sentence because it causes a whole lot of WIFOM in the future. You can't possibly think it's ok to "ask those who are town" to switch votes.

Though I agree, Quadz needs to be lynched. He STILL hasn't contributed much even after people have brought this to his attention as being anti-town. His answers/excuses aren't acceptable to me, either.

PREVIEW EDIT: How did you know I was JUST asking that question??? lol. Um, let me get back to you when I'm less tired.

[singersigner]

I'm

V/LA through Sunday night.

On that note, when I come back, my next step will be to look at what Uite was looking at. It seemed to me that he was lynched because he asked all the right questions, not because he seemed "woah way townie" (which might've also been true). I think it posed a threat to scum, so I want to look at who it might've posed the most threat to.

[singersigner]

I find Pom more suspicious than a2.

But right now, I don't like how antihero interacted with quadz. He's the one I'm most suspicious of. Case coming once I get out of class. Lowell, I like what you have to say, and it's interesting that you don't see Antihero's name in there anywhere (though that could be your own bias ).

[singersigner]

Question to EVERYONE (Yes, that might mean you) that suspects me over A2RB: Do you think A2RB would have generated any content at all by now today, had I not attacked him?

My counter-question to you will give you my answer: is that indicative of scum? Or are you trying to divert our attention to him instead of you, for the same thing you've been doing? You might both be scum for all we know, so why shouldn't we pressure you first?

On that note, I do believe I'd like to pressure Antihero first, as he is my primary suspect for a scum-buddy with quadz.

[singersigner]

So...Antihero makes no mention of quadz and his scummy play, EVER. And only calls out Zed because he thinks he's only trying to divert the attention to the other growing wagon, completely disregarding the fact that plenty of other players agreed he was scummy (oh hey look, he flipped scum).

He also makes a big deal out of the whole me/Equinox thing, when in my opinion, forcibly not answering your own questions when one of them looks like fishing is scummy. To me, it felt like he was only trying to push a scummy issue on me, when other people even agreed it was suspicious. Hey, OMGUS? No, quoting people out of order, and not thinking that the order of the posts matter is scummy. You may have made a mistake, but then backtracking and saying it wouldn't have mattered anyway is BS.

He seems to by quite hypocritical with not wanting to read any WoTs, and then posting a couple of his own (doesn't matter if they're quotes, you admit that it's our responsibility to read them, so we will if you post them), as well as when he said he didn't admit he made a mistake, when he really did...and then admitted it was a mistake

again

.

Again, I still don't understand how he thinks quadz isn't scummy at the end of the day. He votes Zed...but doesn't give any reasons for doing so, other than "he's scummier." I feel like my wagon didn't take off, so he voted the only other wagon that wasn't his scum-buddy.

[singersigner]

VOTE: Antihero

Toootally meant to do that in my last post.

Also, Pom...your logic is pretty bad with the whole "I know I'm town, so I have to play with that knowledge." I mean, that might be true and all, but you have to realize that no one else knows that, so if you attack someone for reasons of which you are guilty, it's gunna look that much more suspicious for you. Especially since you have no idea who else is in the Mason group with Nexus. Unless you are, and have someone to vouch for you, I wouldn't use "because I'm town" as part of your argument (yes, I understand that's not your entire defense).

[singersigner]

Chess, you math is off...but I get what you're saying. It's weird that you would say something like that as town...but i still get it, especially since I' pushing for an Antihero lynch today.

[singersigner]

K, wasn't taking into account the NK. I was looking at the end of today, not D3.

[singersigner]

Spring was replaced, so I don't think looking at the fact that she "disappeared" after that is very telling, considering it was pretty obvious she wasn't going to come back.

[singersigner]

Yeah, Chess, what makes you say you're "pretty obviously not the other werewolf"? I don't know why I just overlooked that at first...

[singersigner]

You're still stating an opinion that can't actually be proven until you die. It doesn't really explain why you would do that as town.

Chess, if you want to find that werewolf, I'd suggest starting with Antihero.

And woah, I didn't realize deadline was THIS FRIDAY. Comeon people, let's lynch this fool.

[singersigner]

*can't be proven until the werewolf dies*

Then I would suggest werewolf-hunting, hmm? You've done quite a bit of speculation and very little scum-hunting.

[singersigner]

I said before, I'm only posting one liners tonight, since I'm only checking in when I need a quick break. I have two psets due in 14 hours now, and I've yet to start one, mostly done with the other.

Apologies. I'm just really ready to lynch some scum and get this day over with.

[singersigner]

If deadlines are looming, I'll stand in line for an Antihero lynch too.

I don't know why you wouldn't just figure out if you're willing to vote him now, though. While I want him gone, I won't appreciate people who are just like "sure, let's lynch him"--without so much as even agreeing with my case or making a case of their own.

[singersigner]

I need to do SingerSinger iso, then my vote is going either on Singer or on Muffin, unless I can find that last friggin werewolf. (if my gut is right, Singer/Muffin are scum together)

I thought the point was to find the other werewolf...so why would you focus on me and Muffin if you don't actually think we're that person?

Also...

ANTIHERO. I'm tellin ya, he's the other werewolf. Where is he, by the way? It's very "convenient" that he hasn't shown up yet to defend himself...

[singersigner]

Antihero reads like town. Make a case, don't just say it.

I did make a case. So did Kunk...how did you not see it?

[singersigner]

Vote: Muffin

Deadline looming.
Promised ISO coming tonight but right now voting top scum suspect.

Activity in this game sucks

You promised ISOs two days ago. Just saying. I'd appreciate if everyone looked over mine and Kunk's case on Antihero. That'd be super. Especially Chess, since I don't feel that multiple games excuses activity in any of them.

[singersigner]

I also feel that Antihero hasn't done much scumhunting at all throughout the game; most of his posts are just asking others for clarification which is classic "scum trying to look like they're contributing" play.

Well I would have responded to the "clarification" if I had gotten it.

Good defense, bro.

[singersigner]

Heh, honorable mention? Cool. I just think I know quadz too well and read him and Antihero too easy together. Then Antihero had to be all butthurt about it.

I think the masons pegged Lowell and Pom as mafia, right? Too bad. Chess...buddy...you had to calm with the calling out of the mason thing. Ha.

[singersigner]

Hi, I'm quadz08, and I SUCK at D1.

Aw, honey, you'll get better!