Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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I really see no reason why we should not execute one of {Jack, ribwich}. As none of them took their claim back, it is clear that one of them has to be scum.
Since lynching the consulmaker is in no way worse than lynching a VT, we basically have a 50% chance of hitting scum without any drawback. you will never get such a higha priori(that is, without relying on scum/town-tells) percentage elsewhere.-
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Nathanael Goon
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ok, then:
Jack:
1. what gain did you expect from claiming consulmaker?
2. would you claim consulmaker as scum?
3. do you think ribwich would counterclaim you as scum?
4. do you think there is a chance you are both town?
ribwich:
1. would you have claimed consulmaker if Jack hadn't claimed?
2. do you believe Jack is scum?
3. why do you think did Jack claim consulmaker?
vote Lowell-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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how about dividing everyone in two groups A and Bribwich wrote:I'm not a fan of this idea, since it would involve guaranteeing that at least one of the consuls tomorrow is scum. If you're insisting on not allowing either one of us to die today, I would propose this alternative: everyone divides themselves up into two groups. I will guarantee that the consuls tomorrow are one person from each group.
and you choosing both consuls out of A and Jack choosing both consuls out of B?
that way even if one consul dies, we still know who of you is the real consulmaker.
PS:FoS: chesskid, for his nonsense-attack on me.-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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lol. why exactly would you want that?SensFan wrote:Unvote; Vote: Jack
I want to see him as a Tribune.
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three cases:
case one, we are right and there is exactly one scum in {Jack, ribwich}: with the group split we find out who the liar is and lynch him
case two, Jack and ribwich are scum: the consulmaker chooses one out of each group, best case both consuls survive and we know two scum, worst case one consul dies and we lynch one of {Jack, ribwich} (the one who's group the consul was not in). extremely unlikely worst case, both consuls die, in this case we look at the players who died, if there are only two players, it's as if we had the consuls, and will know everything. should there be three deaths, probably the third consulmaker should out himself
case three, Jack and ribwich are both town. I am not going to consider this case because in this case one of them is a complete idiot. the only possible way this could be, is if the mod had forced one townie to claim consulmaker. (mod, is there anything bastardly in this game?)
mert, stop worrying for nothing.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Rabies, getting town-vibes there
ever heard about RVS? that's when one votes randomly without having to have particular reads on someone.chesskid3 wrote:Also, I'm not scrapping for the sake of it. Nathanael comes at me with "I'm starting to suspect chesskid because he dares to ask me why I voted Lowell for tribune after one craptastic post ZOMGZOMGZOMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG"
Seriously. Lowell. Less than useless when he's town, and for some reason hard to lynch when he's scum. YA WOOOO GREAT TRIBUNE RIGHT THERE
lol.chesskid3 wrote:First mention of bus is noted.-
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Nathanael Goon
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if you randomly choose someone out of {Jack, ribwich} you have 77,78% chance to have a town tribune. if you choose someone in {Jack, ribwich} that percentage drops to 50%SensFan wrote:
I think he's slightly more likely to be Town than ribwhich. I think he's a rather good player, and I don't know about ribwhich. So I'd like to see him as Tribune, where he is forced to provide definate input one way or the other on the execution targets.Nathanael wrote:
lol. why exactly would you want that?SensFan wrote:Unvote; Vote: Jack
I want to see him as a Tribune.
"slightly more likely" is in no way enough to justify such a tribunal vote.-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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what do you mean by the bolded?dramonic wrote:Tribune: Chamber
Chesskid and Sens are town.That's not a good thing though
lynching scum > whatever information you might get from a town lynch.SensFan wrote:Information to give future executions a higher chance of success.
PS: everyone, stop proposing Jack (or ribwich) for tribune. WE ARE NOT VOTING THEM.-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Sens, you are making no sense.
Having a scum tribune will give scum power. We do not want scum to have power.
The more power is in town's hand, the more town can force the action of players.
Town force players to commit to their reads.
Also, you are totally overrating "committing to reads". If scum-tribune has to choose whether to save or not someone, he/she just play it easy and do what town wants. You cannot accuse someone of doing what the majority of the town wants.-
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Nathanael Goon
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mod, if I veto this execution now, can the same person be executed later? e.g. could I later execute chesskid?
chesskid, give me a good reason to Veto your execution.
1. why is Rabies scum?
2. why is powerrox scum?
3. do you think I am scum?
4. do you think it is town's best strategy to self-vote as tribune in the beginning?
5. do you think Lowell is scum?
6. How many scum do you think there are?
7. If you were tribune and SensFan were not a consul, would you veto an execution on him?
8. Who out of {Jack, ribwich} do you think is the real consulmaker?-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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when are you going to stop coasting?chesskid3 wrote:I do believe I announced in thread many pages ago that I was going to coast today, yesh?
this is total hypocrisy. you are comparing two totally different things and drawing totally crappy conclusions.Jack wrote:Also, what he did say about the consulmaker thing indicated that he thought it was simple, we should just "lynch one and if he's town lynch the other" or something like that. Which would be a very short day of course.
FoS: Jack
What about this do you really mean?SensFan wrote:Yes. I submitted an execution after double-checking with the Mod to make sure there was no downside to it, since I could veto it myself. If you have a problem with that, you might as well extend your brush to include Nathan and chamber; both posted without immediately vetoing the execution.
stop it.SensFan wrote:Also, for old time's sake;Glrok: chesskid
VETO: chesskid's execution.
STOP THIS CRAP!SensFan wrote:I'm getting closer and closer to the "chesskid or no one" ultimatum, actually.
while I can understand the early pressuring by execution-threat this is going way to far.-
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Nathanael Goon
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why do you think that SensFan is town?dramonic wrote:Again Sens, I understand your frustration at Chesskid3's incredible usefulness, but even though he's a twat he's still town. Bad, annoying, frustrating town, but he is. You're town too, do the right thing and off someone who has actual odds at being scum.
@Chess: Sorry pumpkin, but even though you claim to be unstable meta-wise, you're predictable. Stop experimenting and start playing.
@SpyreX: By dance the dance you mean...? ._.-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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SensFan wrote:I will not allow an execution of either claimed Consulmaker to go through today.SensFan wrote:I'm not willing to take a 50-50 shot today, and risk killing a confirmable PR, when we can ensure we get a 100% lynch of the liar on D3. Yes, I have a way to figure out which of them is lying by D3. No, I don't think its best to divulge it until just before we execute someone today.SensFan wrote:Vote: rib; Vote: KatSensFan wrote:Second of all, stop talking about yourself like you're confirmed Consulmaker. There's a higher chance you're Scum than anyone else other than Jack. And if we're going to gamble, it's going to be on you. If we mess up and hit JackTown, we lost a very good consulmaker. If we mess up and hit ribTown, we gain a competent consulmaker.
someone tell me how this is not a blatant contradiction.SensFan wrote:You do realize that as soon as you (even if you're telling the truth) get executed, another confirmed Town pops up, right?
Sens, what exactly changed?
How can you be so sure ribwich is the right choice over Jack (whom you even wanted as consul)?
Damn, why is my top scumread exactly the one we can't lynch today?
PS: have we already made the lists for the two consulmakers to choose from? we should do it like this:
one consulmaker makes two lists in a simplerandomway. the other choosesrandomlybetween the two lists.
that way scum has minimal influence on the lists, as at least one of the two has to be town (and if not, the third consulmaker is quite free with his choices, as he can choose one player per list.)
it is very important that if you are town you make your decision in a random way.-
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Nathanael Goon
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ribwich wrote:
I'm not sure how strongly this should be considered, but this could be a slip. There are no VTs in this game. The closest thing is a Roman Senator, but they're not really vanilla since the PM states they can become consulmaker. It probably isn't very much on its own since I could see some people still referring to it as a VT, but I do think it at least adds to the case against Katsuki.Katsuki wrote:I am a VT btw. You guys can proceed accordingly.FoS: ribwich.-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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I am town, Katsuki is very likely town, Parama is probably scum.
lol. I was executing someone (Parama). this post is obvious BS.Powerrox93 wrote:
^This^xRECKONERx wrote:I swear to god I'm lurking and not posting again until D2. Stop FUCKING extending the deadline.
I don't care who you execute (Yes that includes me) today but just execute someone
FoS Nathanael
FoS: Powerrox.-
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Nathanael Goon
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Nathanael Goon
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lol. this is just plain funny.Jack wrote:I picked from ribwhich's list for wifom to confuse scum, but I got the lists mixed up which is my bad you should have made it clearer which we were supposed to pick from, still on the whole I'm disappointed that people don't appreciate how protown a claim it was, lotta upside low downside considering the consul choices thus far.
so you claim you picked from the wrong list?
please execute him.
and this is one of the most blatant scumslips I have seen in a long time. (eccept one Parama knows about.)dramonic wrote:hey look I'm consul.
Fortunately for you Reck, there's someone who's confirmed scum in general,not just to me-
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Nathanael Goon
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btw, aren't the two bold statements in direct contradiction to each other?Jack wrote:I picked from ribwhich's list for wifom to confuse scum, butI got the lists mixed upwhich is my bad you should have made it clearer which we were supposed to pick from, still on the whole I'm disappointed that people don't appreciate how protown a claim it was, lotta upside low downside considering the consul choices thus far.
consuls, how much more does it take until you execute this obvscum?
@mod: are there jesters in this game?-
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Nathanael Goon
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the point is that he is confirmed town. giving a lot of power to town is a good thing, no?SensFan wrote:
He has a tremendous amount of control. If he finds me scummy, he can pick two Consuls who both find me scummy as well, for instance. I think it's a massive mistake to let someone pick the Consuls and also have veto power.Feysal wrote:Besides, how much control would ribwich actually have? He cannot dictate who the Consuls should execute, he can only choose the Consuls themselves. His opinion may have more weight due to his confirmed town status, but that is all the influence he has. I don't think this is reason enough not to choose him.-
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Nathanael Goon
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parama's case is nonsense.
I was wrong in the beginning, yes. so what? I thought 50% lynch is better than random and didn't think that we could confirm the consulmaker
what you keep calling a false dichotomy, is just the logical thought. the first, simplest thing to assume when you have two contradicting claims is that one of them is scum.
right now I am rethinking that, since Jack's post made some sense, but why would anyone assume there were two town cc'in each other?
right now I think Jack is nully, but I think he did a really bad move if he really was town.
sensfan made some nonsensical arguments, his tunnel on chesskid was just plain crap. I somehow accepted his play later, but I'd still put him in my slight scumreads.
I included this case because someone else was talking about a possible third consulmaker.Parama wrote:
this is plain and simple filler. there is no way 2 scum would both claim consulmaker and cc each other.Nathanael wrote:case two, Jack and ribwich are scum: the consulmaker chooses one out of each group, best case both consuls survive and we know two scum, worst case one consul dies and we lynch one of {Jack, ribwich} (the one who's group the consul was not in). extremely unlikely worst case, both consuls die, in this case we look at the players who died, if there are only two players, it's as if we had the consuls, and will know everything. should there be three deaths, probably the third consulmaker should out himself
I just wanted my argument to be complete as I prefer complete arguments in any case.
I always thought that lynching Katsuki could be an option. I just wanted some more time to decide. no reason to rush. his late posts looked townish to me so I stated I wasn't going to allow his lynch in the end. since I found powerrox slightly scummy, I accepted the suggestion and executed him.ribwich wrote:Nathaniel: Was there ever a time when you were thinking you would allow katsuki to be executed? If not, why keep the charade up by constantly doing attempts on her?
PS: I know you will dismiss this as OMGUS, but I don't care. Parama's attack on me is just nonsense. I have seen him play town, he was quite awesome and found all scum.
vote, Parama-
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Nathanael Goon
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this is the game we were in together until a few weeks ago: clickribwich wrote:
I disagree. I've never played with you and can't chime in on if he's even right about this, but if you're someone that normally is very good at catching scum, using those kinds of arguments as a reason to suggest someone is scum does make it a fairly good chance you could be scum.Parama wrote:And this is where everything you say is completely discredited.
Seriously.-
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omg.Parama wrote:Can we execute ribwich? Pleeeeease?
don't you see ribwich is CONFIRMED TOWN?
you are definitely totally, awfully wrong in this game. on everything.
and since I know your townplay is better than this, you are scum.
can we please execute Parama?
finally someone who uses his head here.ribwich wrote:I'm probably going to get some flak for this, and I'm surprised myself that I'm actually doing this...
VETO JACK EXECUTION
I'm not saying I for sure think he's town. There's a chance that this has all been a big scum gambit, but I can now really see the pro-town reasons for what he did. There's better execution choices for today.-
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Nathanael Goon
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what do you mean with "its nathaniel"?Porochaz wrote:Its Nathaniel. By all intents and purposes, he should have his head on the block at the end of the day.
what ribwich did yesterday was a good move.scotmany12 wrote:We are not letting ribwich be tribune after the shit he pulled yesterday.
we did lynch scum, didn't we?
and I don't think Jack is scummy in any way. I wouldn't call him town, but I think he's null at worst. therefore saving him was the correct choice.-
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fence sitting is a bad thing because it may indicate scummyness.Porochaz wrote:I have found you intensely scummy everytime you post. Ribwich wasnt good yesterday, Im thankful for what he did but he was not a good spokesperson for the town. Also fence sitter is fence sitting.
but ribwich is confirmed town. he made a good decision yesterday. he is moderately active overall.
what else exactly do you want a tribune to be?
a good tribune has to go against the town sometimes.Porochaz wrote:Because despite it being the right decision, he went against the majority of the town.
don't forget:
individual town decision > whole town decision
for some reasons:
a) a part of the "town" is scum
b) a mass is usually weaker/more stupid than the average individual. human nature.
therefore having a (even if mediocre, in your POV) single town individual making one decision is much better than if it is done by all together.-
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rethinking, Jack is likely town, considering how hard dramonic was going after him. he was already bussing reck, I don't think he would bus two partners.
this is fallacious. we do absolutely not need to lynch Jack. he is for all purposes back at null, IMO he is even slightly townish. There is really no reason why he would be scum over someone else.scotmany12 wrote:We're going to need to lynch jack, and sooner is much better than latter due to the information we can gain off of the lynch. There is too much risk to let jack live, and I don't trust ribwich to not veto and execution on jack.
if he does scummy things, we will lynch him. otherwise, he is just as good a lynch as a random lynch, and that's not particularly good.
If I can get a confirmed townie tribune, I don't see any reason not to. And since you definitely aren't going to vote me, ribwich is the obvious tribune-choice.
I delayed Katsuki's lynch, because I thought we could use more time. Quicklynching wouldn't have helped at all.Feysal wrote:Then there is the fact that Nathanael (as Tasky) posted that he would not reveal his reads or reasons to avoid the scum messing with them. Now that he is no longer consul he has no reason to be secretive any more. I don't really disagree with the things he said and did during the first day, but I'd like to know what his reasons were.
I found Katsuki's reactions slightly townish, and since I hade a slight scum-vibe from Powerrox and deadline was near, I agreed to his lynch.
something else you'd liked explained?-
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Nathanael Goon
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I vetoed chesskid, because SensFan's attack on him was just nonsense. There was absolutely no reason for him to be scum at that pointFeysal wrote:Couple things. Where did your execution attempt of Parama come from? Earlier that day you had vetoed Chesskid's execution twice, and Parama replaced into that slot. What happened?
Then there is SensFan. You said he was your top scumpick on day one, and it was pretty clear from the context why. Do you still believe him to be scum?
then Parama replaced in, attacked me for a completely BS, which is something I wasn't used him to do when town. I have seen him play as town and he played a lot better. now, I don't know, maybe he is just having a bad month, but hey, it's better than nothing.
conclusion: 60% scum
I still think SensFan is slightly more scummy than random. I can see why he would do what he did as townie, but I can also see the scum motivation. The problem is that I don't seem to agree with almost anything he says/does, and I could be biased by that
conclusion: 40% scum
(assuming 33% scum = null)-
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Nathanael Goon
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and where exactly did I say that you believed chesskid to be scum?SensFan wrote:You'd be a lot more likely to understand my posts if you read them, Nathanael. I wasn't attacking chesskid on the basis I thought he was particularily likely to be Scum.
Your attack on chesskid was BS. I didn't even think about whether you thought him scum or not.
what exactly are buddy-buddy points?Magua wrote:Nathaniel gets buddy-buddy points for vetoing my slot's execution (three times, yay!)-
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