Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Thor665]

Excellent, a chance to crush the Eastern bloc once more.

That said, as much as I'd like to vote Gud - history shows that he ends up dead in games he and i are in, whereas filthy, filthy AGar seems to generate roughly a 50/50 chance for me or him to go, so...

Vote: AGar

he''ll never believe I'm town again.

EBWOP - awesome, and I get to wagon too! Go, go, assured scum lynch here!

[Thor665]

EBWOP: Ah, yes you did. That's the one where Reck Smurfed up completely and modkilled you.

Just so long as you're saying it and not me (that said, I'm pretty sure I recall the newbies were frothing around me anyway, so I was probably lynched no matter what)

Extreme inability to present herself in a way that is coherent and readable for fellow town-members resulting in potential liability of a mislynch in key scenarios.

Wow, I don't even get a jab at me for voting you and mentioning the killing times when I killed you via death?

AGar is dodging me, he knows I'll be able to spot his scum game!

I could also probably lynch Rhinox pretty happily.

[Thor665]

Why should we do that?

Because my beard is awesome.

And because last to post is not only pase' it's also totally ignoring the two larger wagons that were already rampaging around and I dislike players who try to slow down the exit of the RVS.
Why'd you feel a need to ask my reasoning on Rhinox and not really have any issues whatsoever with my primary suspicion reasoning on AGar which, though explained, was most assuredly flimsy?

Unvote: AGar
Vote: Powerrox93

RVS just ended for me, huzzah.

[Thor665]

I've actually been scum twice and prominent scum twice and have gone 1/1 with the tactic. I do consider it the superior scum tactic though - otherwise I wouldn't use it.

@AGar - when did you take a meta position in this game?

[Thor665]

@singer - I do have many troop-like qualities.

Why are you not voting Powerrox?

@Gud - I meant 1 and 1, as in one win and one loss. I also won ReBoot Mafia as prominent scum in addition to my 'atta boy performance in the mini with singer.
And to answer your open to all question - AGar's question was really an extra ding at me since he was in ReBoot and really probably doesn't want me doing that to him again (or he's scum and this is a double-blind switch of WIFOM). I take it as him trying to serve notice on me and also get a read on you at the same time - which is functional and stylish though I'm not sure how much info it will actually glean for him.

[Thor665]

Hmmm, and actually I'm 2-1-0 as scum, I'd forgotten that Dr. Horrible Game. I was prominent scum then as well.

@AGar - policy is policy and meta is meta. I suppose I can accept that meta leads to the idea of policy - but really that's just a policy lynch, not a meta lynch now isn't it? Also, the reason the strategy is successful is because people focus on the cruising players first. They tend to be weaker players as it were and that's why scum and town can hunt there easier. Also, let's be honest, somebody needs to be the VI and the counterwagon Day 1 - otherwise nothing would happen.

[Thor665]

Unvote: AGar
Vote: Powerrox93

Attention MOD

Well then....

Sorry. First time modding. Thanks for letting me know =3

Your vote against powerrox not withstanding, why would you be happy with a Rhino lynch?

...read moar? I already answered this in the post I voted Powerrox in because he asked me functionally the same question - do you not understand the answer? Please narrow down your confusion or else all I can do is repeat what I've already said.

But my question is... why isn't AGar voting Gud if gud is "sooooo scummy it hurts"? Especially considering

Thor, you're point on Powerrox still stands, but this latest greatest development is much more fruitful I think.

This was actually exactly what I was going to ask. Town points for Rhinox for *being inside my head*.

@AGar - don't be scumz!

[Thor665]

ConfidAnon looks more townish now.
sims was the overblown reaction of the pair - no question. He needs to learn that caps lock doesn't equate to awesome - it equates to yelling.

@singer what's your read on sims/ConfidAnon as regards one of them over reacting?

[Thor665]

@singer - Shhhh, Fate is special.

Also, if you could see sims as overreacting why do you think it's strange that Gud would vote him after the overreaction?

[Thor665]

Why do we have talk about every single player at the same time?

I read this, twice. The second time I stuck a pipe in my mouth and stroked my beard while going 'Hmmmm?' which is scientifically proven to give you more intelligence. I still couldn't spot you actually answering the question of why you were more concerned by the Rhinox comment than the AGar vote - and, in fact, I'm pretty sure you answered a question with a question as a form of deflection which is a connection to thy scummy complexion.

That was a beatnik style scum accusation there - try to shake it off.

[Thor665]

Not into the Power-votes.
[snip]
Not too thrilled about Power's last post, mainly due to him stretching what sims has said.

Just wanted to put these next to each other to see if they made more sense together then at the beginning and end of a post.

Anyway, Thor, why did you single Rhinox out when there were other players who also didn't comment on the 'two bigger' wagons?

Well, for that and also for playing the 'last to post card', as I said, I am not a fan of it. What other players would you like us to be discussing?

To both AGar and Thor, both of you state that Power singled Rhinox out by only asking Thor about his reasons for wanting to lynch Rhinox, while 'ignoring' the reasons against AGar. However, Carrot does the same and both of you don't mention how scummy that is from Carrot? How come?

Because Carrot's comment came after the Rhinox comment and our reactions to it (or at least mine) and included a note that proved Carrot was aware of that situation but still wanted the question answered, and therefore was totally different than what Rhinox did.

Back to Thor. You mentioned at the start that you don't like it when players try to keep the RVS going. So how come no mentioning of sims random vote that started the Confid VS sims arguements?

Because there was nothing further I could add that was worth posting about it. Also, note that after it was all over I commented that I thought Confid was more townish - almost as though I thought what he was doing was pro-town and I agreed with it...I dunno, there might be a connection there. I'll get back to you if I figure out what.

@BloodQueen - what do you think about Rhinox dodging the question I leveled at him twice now?

[Thor665]

^^^
Not Rhinox - Powerrox - one of the 'ox's' at the very least.

[Thor665]

there is something to be said for an overreaction to an overreaction (not to get too circular here). Which is the point I was trying to make about confid.

That might be true - but I don't think anyone besides you took his responses as an overreaction

Saying that this "is the point [you were] trying to make about Confid" strikes me as somewhat revisionist. You were making the point that he overreacted - now that people are saying you overreacted you appear to have a new storyline in place. Thoughts?

[Thor665]

Let's try this another way - at least 3 players or so believe you were the one who overreacted.
You are advancing that overreactions are scumtells and want us to look at Confid because he overreacted.
If we believe overreactions are scumtells why should we bother looking at Confid instead of you?
Things have changed and you're not noticing.

[Thor665]

So what's different about the 'last to post reason' when comparing it to different random vote reasons?

Because it tries to masquerade as a semi-valid point while just being RVS nothingness.

As for the part about Confid VS Sims, it's rather strange to mention that one seemed more townish, instead of mentioning that the other looked scummier.

I'm not sure I believe that sims looks scummier because of that. I do believe Confid looks townier.

Last, Thor, what do you think of post 110?

Not fond of the Gud vote to immediately switch it to a Blood Queen vote which looks like a dodge of that issue. That said he maintains Gud suspicion so it doesn't feel home run.
Other than that I have no real issues or thoughts about it dependent on AGar's next few posts. I consider it in line with the way he usually plays/thinks. You're correct in noting it feels like an incomplete thought.

[Thor665]

I was looking forward to us both being town thor . Who are your scum buddies?

Two man scum team - you and me.
I thought we weren't supposed to say?

[Thor665]

You hold a double standard with your posts. You fill pretty much every reply with meaningless, presumably funny, meandering. And act as if your jokes are interchangeable with your arguments

If they're funny than they are not meaningless.
My jokes are interchangeable with my arguments because since I always joke I joke during my arguments.

Your entire case against powerrox is that he ignored your initial vote against agar, but he questioned the rhinox one.
[snip]
You question why anyone would ignore this? It's obviously a joke. Nobody on their right mind would waste time scrutinizing a random vote. On the other hand, rhinox, your second vote. Is expected to be of substance. And I suppose it must. Since you've created an entire case against power for ignoring your joke.

You are very close now, here's more clarification;
The point is

I never voted Rhinox

- I simply noted I'd be okay lynching him.
Apparently Powerrox looked at this vote on AGar (that *nobody in their right mind* would waste time analyzing)
He then wanted to ask for clarification about a dude I functionally FOSed which means it's a lesser suspicion than the vote that no one would ever analyze.
Bwuh?
Do you grok now?

[Thor665]

Your FOS however, is preceeded by a logical backing, it's , though not heavy, usable for pressure.

What do you see as the logical thinking that preceded my Rhinox suspicion? I literally just tossed his name out with no stated reasoning at all. Also, I'd love your opinion on my reply to Powerrox at the bottom of this post.

1. Looking back, Thor, you still haven't explained why you didn't mention AGar's policy lynch vote against Singer. Though AGar mentioned it's out of style for him and that you should have known that.
2. Question before continuing: How come you kept your vote against AGar and didn't switch to Rhinox?
3. I do like your point against AGar about his vote switching in the same post and I hope he responds to it. Can you tell a bit more about AGar's play?

1. I didn't explain it because I don't have an answer. The logic is predicated on his belief that I would catch it. So either I caught it and scumtastically decided not to use a meta argument on him for a mislynch (because scum me...wouldn't want to lynch town AGar?) or I just missed it in which case there is no way to prove/disprove the thought. I considered it a meaningless comment on the whole.

2. ::facepalm:: Return question - why should I have? My Rhinox suspicion was an RVS one, as was the AGar one. With them being equal I'd rather leave the first vote out there until I get a reaction/see a better place for my vote.

3. Yes. Though my urge to try to write a big post on everything I perceive about AGar's playstyle seems a poor exchange on the effort to advantage scale. Overall I consider him a good player and I've seen him transform some of those little insight tells of his into brilliantly accurate conclusions. I've never played with him as scum. He's played with me as both town and scum. That should give you all the basic info you need.

Maybe I wasn't interested at all in AGar, maybe I was more interested in Rhinox by then.

Maybe?
Maybe

Were you interested in Rhinox and not AGar or weren't you? You're playing a weak semantics game and hiding behind a defense someone else provided you without even having the conviction to say whether or not you were or were not interested in AGar. You, sir, are as scummy as a NYC public lavatory.

[Thor665]

Wow.

1. Why did you want the explanation on Rhinox first - you still haven't clarified this.
2. Okay...but why wouldn't you just clarify instead of asking me questions about *your* motivations. Why not just tell me your motivations?

[Thor665]

Thor: Thoughts on what I'm bringing here?

Well, I think you can read me - you just always get town vibes (which is good this game, go with it)
I've actually recalled now a time you did discuss policy lynches (in one of our QTs you pointed out a couple players you considered decent ones as I recollect now)

Now to the actual meat;

Your wagon analysis is interesting. I tend to give you some slack on this because I've seen you pull some silly insight before (like asking two players to make a case on each other, pegging them both as scum and even identifying which was the RBer - WTF?) But I'm not sure I see the dire trend you're indicating is there. I do find BQ a reasonable consideration for a lynch, as I don't have a town read on her. But my current read there feels very muddled so I'm not willing to hop off the Powerrox express just yet.

I've actually rejoined on your policy lynch thing - but now your theory is that I was just going to let a policy lynch play through? You should know I don't tend to let policy lynch wagons slid very far as town, and as scum you've seen me pick my mislynches and fight to make them happen - so neither of my playstyles were likely to angle for a slide through policy. Plus, you were trying it during ruddy RVS - in RVS I advocate policy lynches, and I don't believe in them either. Why would I want to slap around a perfectly reasonable wagon starting comment? Your test was either silly (if you're town) or is being overplayed (if you're scum).

I disagree with Carrot calling your pushes "weak", but I don't think I've really agreed with anything Carrot has said yet.
You did post a vote on Powerrox.

What's your current read on Powerrox - he's flinging newbie juice from his pores right at the moment and I want to hear someone else tack a crack at wading through it to find the town/scum nougat center.

[Thor665]

I don't trust Thor trying to be buddy-buddy but I don't know if I would say that's a scum tell just yet...

Other than AGar who am I being all buddy-buddy with?
As far as he goes; I actually like AGar - scum or not. It's a game. I'll be friendly with people I consider friends.

[Thor665]

Shhhh, NO, WE CAN'T BE FRIENDS STRANGE TOWN/SCUM PLAYER WHO I MUST ACT ANGRY AROUND TO PROVE I'M TOWN.

(sure we can, as long as the bracelet is manly)

[Thor665]

before we begin this collective catchup post, Reck would like to extend a giant HOLY SMURF I HATE ALL OF YOU to the people involved in this game.
dramonic had nothing to do with this italicized portion. now, without further ado...

I also feel emotional distaste for you in being so late to offer reads and choosing to mock everyone who did the heavy lifting of slogging through the horror that is RVS.
That said, you're capable of noting Carrot is Twinke-insane - so at least I can't hate you fully. Thanks for joining the game. I know the early Powerrox case was bad, what do you think of the current case - he's newbie as hell but that was an odd slip I pegged on him and I want to know why do/don't see it as a valid scumtell.

If he is the serial killer, then I suggest we do

not

kill him. Let the scum burn a nightkill to get rid of him. The timing of this makes it unlikely for him to be scum, as it's without profit if he were.

Because we should count on scum to kill a non town aligned killing role? Uh...no, let's not do that. I'll agree that other than WIFOM super soup there is no scum advantage for that move - what do you see as the 3rd party or town advantage though? I can't think of a good reason for those either.

@Gud - other than assuring that you will not be allowed to live till endgame - what...the...hell?

@AGar - please explain to me scumGud's motivation for that - that seems way too derpy easy road logic for you to take.

[Thor665]

@sims - that play seems too obvious and risky to work. By claiming SK (a claim he has since said isn't true, fyi everyone) Gud basically put a 'kill me before mylo/lylo card on his chest and lit it up with sparklers. No scum is likely to try that on Day 1 methinks. I actually am taking it as a towntell simply because it's such an in your face reaction test that he basically screamed that he should have everyone pay attention to him - which is not something scum normally do. They either try to stay under radars or they try to look town - I've yet to see one try to look scummy/anti-town.

I actually agree that Carrot looks bad, but I think she does so independent of Gud's actions.

[Thor665]

Because we should count on scum to kill a non town aligned killing role?

Nice twist. Not.
I can do it too, here:

Because we should count on scum to kill a non scum aligned killing role??!?!

Inconceivable!

Your lack of acknowledgment on agar's mindless sheeping of you is troubling, scummy even.

Nice deflection.

I'm not against pet SKs - but your initial plan was 'let's leave him alive so scum have to kill him' which was indeed a derpy-doo plan.
And I presume you're talking AGar's sheeping of the Powerrox vote? Meh - I'm brilliant, people should follow me. I didn't mention it because I didn't find it that troubling - work that into your case however you feel you need to.

[Thor665]

A not unreasonable standpoint - but what is it a tell of - being an SK? Being scum? None of them fit well and it is still a tell of something. What's your read on it?

[Thor665]

Scum motivation to claim SK: draw attention off of self, hopefully displace it somewhere else. A bit of misdirection, perhaps, or maybe just a gambit to try and get scum to survive to the endgame.

SK motivation for claiming SK: Uh, just go look at Skillville Mafia, which just ended. SK claimed, fucked over scum AND town, made it to endgame.

Town motivation for claiming SK:

Awkward reaction fishing

The scum motivation you've listed actually still manages to make less sense than the town one I inserted - and that's saying something.
Haven't read Skillville but why in the universe wasn't a claimed SK lynched earlier than endgame?

@Confid - Um...wait, so you're saying that because I believe the guy claiming SK isn't an SK that makes me the SK? Theoretically by you believing I could be the SK you just showed that you don't believe Gud is the SK which suggests you are the SK by the same logic. Please, go bang your head against a wall a few times until that logic slips out of it. Also, just because Gud didn't outright deny his roleclaim doesn't mean he didn't do it pretty clearly.

[Thor665]

@Reck - looking at Skillville I can see why that annoys you, but I think we should agree that game had a couple interesting permutations that are likely not in this game. So we're back where I believe we started - with none of the roles having a particularly good reason to claim SK, and from there it's functional of me to draw the conclusions I choose to. I really see Gud as either 3rd party or town at this stage as scum have less reason than either of the others to do what he's done, and considering his commentary to AGar I don't see him as likely SK if he is 3rd party.

[Thor665]

You conveniently sidestepped where he pointed out that you claimed Gud retracted his claim. I'm trying to see where you might've even interpreted anything he's posted as saying such. Mind clearing that up for me?

Actually I didn't sidestep it at all since I noted that he didn't overtly back off from the claim, but still pretty clearly did.

Bottom of page 8 and top of page 9. Uses reactions to his claim as scumhunting tells on Confid and claims that he got what he wanted from the claim he made. It's pretty obvious what is being said there.

[Thor665]

PLUS your continued act of turning a blind eye to agar, who so directly appeals to you, is getting scummy.

To get this straight;
You think AGar is buddying up to me and the fact I don't call him on it makes me scum?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this and clarify how.

[Thor665]

@Confid - I hate to echo Gud, but frankly I agree. Your response to me was relatively pointless. Clearly you don't agree with me and I already made it clear I thought your case was gak. You brought nothing new to bear so all a response would do would be to get the two of us going

You: 'you thought he wasn't an SK, so you're the SK!'
Me: 'You're a twit, read his posts.'
You:'You're the twit, look at my case!'
Me: 'What case? The case of twitiness? I showed where he clearly backed off from his claim.'
You: 'He clearly backed off from your Mom. unless he explicitly backed off than he never backed off and you're the SK!'
Me: 'Give me your address, I'm an internet tough guy and will claim a desire to drive to your house eight states away and do battle over this issue.'
You: 'Bring your mom too, I desire some follow up fellatio after I basically murder you in the driveway.'
Me: '...you're a twit.'
You: 'You're the SK.'

So I just skipped past that by not responding. Do you have a new point you feel you brought up that I should respond to? All you appeared to do is restate your original point, and I already did our argument, so we might as well move forward until something new happens in that quarter. If you want responses than advance issues or ask follow up questions. You didn't leave either Gud or I anything worth responding to.

[Thor665]

Thor:
I called him on it. But you refused to acknowledge it - important, as he is creating a relationship between you two. And you are trying as hard as you can to keep it down low. Even you know, i'm sure, that your case against poweree is garbage.

Making garbage cases is fine, day one, as it creates discussion. But your follow-through perverts any discussion really, and just tries for a mislynch.

I didn't refuse to acknowledge it because for me to refuse to do so I would have to accept it as scummy, and I don't. What did you want, a post of me quoting you going 'this is possibly a scumtell, but I don't agree with it, Carrot should/should not continue' If i did that for everything that was raised in thred (even if only tangentially involving me) I would be responding to a lot of stuff. AGar and I are friends and we are likely to joke and be friendly while playing a game of Mafia together. I've called AGar on things he's done I've considered scummy, and I haven't called him on things he's done that you consider scummy. That seems pretty darn normal.

The Powerrox case was weak (or garbage if you prefer) - but at the time which case do you think was better? I appreciated getting the 2nd vote pressure on there to get PR to respond to. I actually since then think the case has become stronger which is why I'm still there, but I don't intrinsically find AGar's hop to be scummy. What case should he have been on at that time that wouldn't have been scummy? Is it only because of the relation between us you find it so questionable? If so, the relative strength/weakness of the case is pretty meaningless since your focus is the buddying tell and really all you've done is go 'look, AGar is buddying and Thor doesn't think it's scummy' which isn't the most super exciting case I've seen.

To me, your original response was not true to my original point. By restating, I thought I was clarifying. You ignored the main point and instead, kind of tried to turn it back around on me, using a different line of logic than I originally did.

Actually all I was trying to do was show the inherent weakness of the logic you used.
Besides, your tell is that I'm the SK because I leaped to a presumption. I showed you where I drew the presumption and other than doing that there's no way to respond to a case as ephemeral as yours as you'll either see the obvious information in Gud's posts that I used or you won't. What do you want me to respond to besides that?

@AGar - logic for Gud vote now please.

[Thor665]

What do you think of Agar in this game?
or seraph?
or singer?

1. More lurky than I'm used to and waiting for an explanation of his last vote to draw clearer conclusions. I liked hi splay on BQ as that felt very AGartown to me, but the Gud move has me doubting that read.

2. No particularly brilliant read yet. I liked his catchup post, I didn't like the slapping at Gud. All I've really got here is a newbie read, and those are annoying.

3. Town.


@Carrot - you've dinged seraph for a change of tune as regards his read on me, but in the same post you're discussing how voting me because you suspect AGar (or seraph) isn't so optimal. Thoughts?

@Powerrox - read on Carrotcake's voting me because she finds people calling me town scummy on my part - go!

[Thor665]

Thor, Gud vote was based on his admitting to claiming an anti-town role to further an agenda. Town doesn't have agendas.d

If he'd said 'to further scumhunting' would you still be voting him?

Why am I not getting a super town read off you today dude?

Rhinox is now pretty obvious town to my mind.

@Blood Queen - why the sudden attention to the Powerrox case?

[Thor665]

1) I don't agree with fakeclaiming an anti-town role to begin with, and to "further scumhunting" would be a sketchy reason at best. I'd probably be hard-pressed to believe he was doing it for a pro-town motivation. So likely, yes.

I don't think there's any question it was a poor action.
Why was it a scummy action though? Which anti-town role wants to paint a giant target on its chest day one? The action was bad and relatively pointless regardless of his alignment and is thus a null action - why do you disagree?

I asked you the 'scumhunting' question because, quite literally, you summed up your case on him as using the word 'agenda' and that's just terrible.

[Thor665]

@sims - okay, I could buy that, what was his slip-up that made him feel busted prior to the SK claim? I just sort of recall the wagon being RVS.

[Thor665]

Vote: AGar

sims is almost definitely town.

[Thor665]

Thor, why AGar? and what's your read on Sims (though I'm almost certain I agree)?

AGar because he's suspicious to me since he doesn't look more town.

Sims is town because of his last post yesterday. The 'He's Smurfing with us, lynch him' vote just doesn't strike me as something scum would have the balls to say while pushing through a mislynch. I'm pretty sure the scum on that wagon came prior to Gud developing a second personality.

[Thor665]

Hmm...I disagree. To me, Gud was a mislynch waiting to happen when he claimed SK. It gave scum every excuse to just be like, "crapcrapcrappidy crap, why isn't he dead yet??" My serious concern is why Carrot thought forming an "alliance" would be a good idea. It seemed incredibly opportunistic and unintelligible, which is exactly something an unexperienced mafia scum would do. How do you interpret that?

Also, by your theory, AGar should be lower on your potential scum reads, considering he didn't hop on til the end.

Re: crapcrapcrappidy - I agree that he was a mislynch waiting to happen, but that feeds into my sims belief as sims came in late and waited for the dual persona to develop before he wrote Gud off.

Re: Carrot - I'm still not sure I really buy into your Carrot/Gud alliance. If you think it doesn't make sense maybe you should reexamine its worth as a case. I don't like to make cases for what inexperienced scum would do, I consider that a WIFOM nightmare. I'm much more comfortable with inexperienced town tells and consider them more universal.

Re: AGar - he hopped on before the split personality part of the case and his logic for how he slid on is hardly stellar. Do you consider the timing/method of his Gud vote to be worth clearing him on?

[Thor665]

1. Ok. That I agree with about Sims.
2. I think writing it off as WIFOM like that is a bad idea. If you didn't interpret it that way, that's fine. But not even taking it into account is plain irresponsible. It's not the only reason I'm voting for him, though. Don't make the mistake of thinking that's the case.
3. Re: question-not at all. Was AGar the one who's logic/vote you questioned?

1.
2. I took it into account, considered it, and found it not worth keeping. I don't see much info to be had from the "buddying with SK" tell personally. I tend to be a big fan of pet SKs too and have supported them as town. I suspect I'd support them as scum as well and so, generally, I consider the tell null.
3. I actually was not much of a fan of the Gud wagon at all, though I'll admit after the dual personality thing if I'd been on in time I probably would have voted him as well. As such, I'm much less suspicious of those after the dual personality and much more those who leapt on beforehand when the wagon was clearly just a VI run up to my mind. Scum knew they could get on and not be questioned for it. AGar falls in that field, and I said as much then and haven't seen a reason to change that opinion now.

[Thor665]

Thor - basing a townread on 1 post? Or is there more into it that I'm missing.

I see no problem with basing a town read off one post. Looking at his other posts I don't see anything that screams scum so why change the opinion from the one?

I voted him for general non-productive behavior for the town and anti-town actions such as causing mass confusion with an anti-town role claim which benefitted the scum in removing the spotlight from anyone else and forcing it on him while also propelling his own mislynch.

So you voted him for doing something that was silly and would get him mislynched and it was anti-town because it got him mislynched?

No, I'm afraid I don't follow. Why wouldn't you listen to me when I asked ridiculous questions like 'how does his play further a scum agenda?' You helped bully through a VI mislynch and you didn't even put much (any?) of a personal spin on it.

If you're not scum on that wagon who is?
Also, what are your thoughts on my logic that clears Confid and sims from the wagon?

[Thor665]

Prodding Thor665. Lets pick up the activity, please.

Wow, my first real prod ever. How shameful.
In my defense I'll note I'm just barely past the two day deadline and posted just last page so...

Powerrox can go on a town list just for posting a vote - the lack of activity in the game is because we still have 5 players sitting on their thumbs and not voting. Pick a wagon and agree with it or start a new one you reprobates!

I'm not against the Carrotcake wagons.
I'm against the Seraphim one.
I'd still like a few more votes on this AGar wagon as well.

[Thor665]

Does no one recall the constant suspicion I had had of {BQ, sims, Gud, PR} pretty much from early on D1?

I think you have to agree that calling it 'constant' is a stretch. You certainly expressed suspicion of those slots at various points, I'll give you that. But by mentioning Gud as suspicious at a point prior to your vote does that, in your opinion, help justify the iffy nature of the vote?

@Thor: You had a town read on Confid. Replacement comes in and simply sheeps you with no real foundation on the vote. Any change in opinion at all?

Are you saying what Nacho did is scummy enough it should change a town read?
I don't agree. I don't even consider what he just did scummy - I think he gave some reasonable opinions and a couple of well reasoned thoughts and placed a vote. It's not super townie 'whhhe, we win' but I don't see it as scummy.

[Thor665]

@Reck - As much as I love constant sheeping and am highly susceptible to the flattery of it, I'd still like to see a few opinions attached to that vote, especially since most of my issues with AGar are based on a gut feel that he's not playing how he would if town.

[Thor665]

BTW carrotcake is at L-2 now if my math is correct, so CC should IMO claim now

No. This is ridiculous.

@Nacho - that was indeed super amusing but...reads?

[Thor665]

To clarify above - you've voted AGar and suggested CC isn't scum, is that all you've got from 17 pages and two flips?

[Thor665]

Right at the moment I'm leaning yes. I don't agree with her cases but I see a logical enough flow in them that it's not making my toes curl. the best hit I've seen scored against her was the one you just did about the oddness of her case assaulting me when you buddying me was part of her case on you - but I don't know enough of her playstyle to feel confident calling that a scummy contradiction.

[Thor665]

In bed?

[Thor665]

I just wanted to narrow down the locations of definite activity

[Thor665]

You and Seraphim both read town to me, although I think that you're both focusing on your tops a little too much. It'd be great if you looked for other scum on the wagon, and he looked for ones off of them.

Perhaps, but I usually stick to looking for one until one is found. Until then compiling too many secondary and tertiary reads just hurts my little head.

Sims is scum for voting Guderian for claiming SK to ensure at least one scum survived to the endgame.

I read this earlier and read it again now - I'm still too dense to get it. Could you expand on this for me please?

[Thor665]

calling a slot with little-to-no actual activity town is laughable at best.

BQ has posted enough for me to get a town read on her, just like she's posted enough for you to get a scumread.

AGar's last post at least feels like town AGar more to me, I would like Nacho's response to his questions.
That said, I'd actually really like AGar's responce to this Nacho question I edited for more clarity. It seems really sloppy to suggest you can get a scum read and then turn around and laugh at someone getting a town read because the player in question hasn't posted enough. Thoughts?

[Thor665]

Frankly I'm against deadline extensions in general and the people who have time to come in, read the request for an extension, and post agreement to it seem like they ought to have the time to post up a few thoughts while they're at it. I'll be around every day so if we get to five votes aye I'll drop the hammer on it. Honestly I'd rather see all the people voting for extension who haven't even put out a vote maybe do something to correct that situation while they're clamoring for the extension though (*cough*sims*cough*).

[Thor665]

Thor, GET MORE AGGRESSIVE.
You sounded like my kindergarten teacher in #429, for god's sakes.

I was actually the creepy janitor down the hall.

When I get a better feel for blood in the water I'll be there with teeth flashing, at the moment my life is a little busy and I've got a couple games distracting me and this one has me advancing a case off of gut - and it's hard to be aggressive off of gut without looking like a spastic screaming dolt, and I don't like to look spastic or screaming...yes.

[Thor665]

I'll send out a couple PMs and see if I nab any takers.

[Thor665]

Greetings,

V/LA till Friday

I apologize for the slow in activity but I am horribly sick at the moment. I'm obligated to be human again by Thursday due to work requirements but will probably spend most of it and Friday trying to catch back up with myself. I should be back to regular posting Friday evening. Apologies - I'm not enough in my right head to even want to try to read the last page or so I missed.

See you all Friday.
Thor.

[Thor665]

I'm back. Quick catchup;

iamauser looks pretty town to me.
I'm not sure about the Seraphim case, that still looks like a town slot as well.
I think singer is town - it's not a super strong read, but I've seen her as town and scum and she really does play this way as both, so much of the scumspicion on her just looks weak at the moment.
Nacho feels like town Nacho...please be town Nacho.
I'm still pretty happy with the AGar wagon, sorry buddy, you gots to die.
Power or Lat are probably my current seconds.

[Thor665]

You forgot us.

I don't see you as townish as the people I listed there nor as scummy as the ones I noted.

[Thor665]

Couldn't we get PR to hammer if that's the thought? Does anyone have a town Powerrox read?

[Thor665]

Seraphim's either pretty obvious town or stupid as hell scum, so I guess at this point I'll just hope I was right initially about AGar and that was all just a gambit, though I guess AGar could have target capability, in which case amusement is not yet over for the day. I'll get popcorn and be back later to sit in line with a target on my chest. Who the hell did BQ get replaced by? If it was iamusername than AGar - your read is probably wrong and don't target that slot. Other than that; ::shrug::.

[Thor665]

Later, just wait to see if anyone's head explodes like a bad case of Scanners. That's what AGar was possibly claiming when he didn't claim

[Thor665]

iamuser was a sims replace I'm pretty sure.


Day 1 lynch
Guderian - 7 (Reckamonic, singersigner, Powerrox93, Seraphim, sims5487, AGar, ConfidAnon)
Day 2 lynch
AGar - 6 (Thor665, Nachomamma8, Reckamonic, Lateralus22, Powerrox93, Seraphim)

I'm probably leaning a lat or Seraphim lynch today. Definitely need to go back and read iam's last day or so of posting as well. I suppose it's likely he was just killed because everyone was agreeing towards the end that he looked obv. town, but I want to consider what trees he was barking up as well.

[Thor665]

Neutral - I usually trust PRs to puzzle out their own reveals.
Advantage you foresee?

[Thor665]

You seem to be mixing a no lynch and a mass claim request and acting as if they are interconnected. Narrowing down to just the massclaim aspect - what do you see as the advantage to that at this stage?

[Thor665]

I have no big issues with a massclaim at this stage, but I would desire it to be done popcorn style.

I'd prefer Seraphim or Reck to go first.

[Thor665]

I'm never sad with a 50/50 choice.

@Seraph - why the conditional on the singer accusation there?

[Thor665]

The lack of immediate vote from Seraphim makes sense though, at that point singer hadn't claimed VT which removed any possible non-scum reasoning for Seraph's results.
I do agree his theatrics (and the logic) of the mothrax target and then the later soft distance of 'singer might be dumb town' is needling me harshly, but the delayed vote doesn't ring any bells for me at all.

Edit: ninja - everywhere.

[Thor665]

Oh, and Lat is the next claim. For those keeping score.

[Thor665]

@singer - if you were a cop/doc then watcher Seraph should have seen two people target mothrax. In all honesty Nacho was more on the money then myself because really the only way for you not to be scum in Seraph's eyes is if there is a scum ninja role (or a bus driver/redirector sorta deal?)

I'll be wanting to discuss the mothrax targeting in any case once the claims are done with.

@Lat - also, delay to claim is scummy. Speed is pro-town

[Thor665]

Can you explain what a scum ninja is?

Scum who can't be tracked/watched.

Everything else I had to say pretty much Recka just said...so...+1.

[Thor665]

@singer - in short, yes, you misunderstood me. I think my posts show an equal level of distrust between you and Seraph. I'll note my mothrax target commentary which is obviously and entirely a ding on Seraph. That said, Watcher is an effing gutsy falseclaim.

@Nacho - Good point about the neighbor target, my thoughts are similar, though the whole WIFOM is annoying. As I said, we really do need to look at that mothrax targeting after the massclaim. It's an odd choice for scum in my opinion, and if Seraph is town it was an odd gut too and he needs to come out with some effort towards figuring out what his gut picked up on.

@Reck - one of your heads appears to have a theatrics read on Seraphim as part of his meta. Looking at the last exchanges I feel as though singer comes across as more honest and upset, and Seraph's post looked really faked to me (#617) what's your read on that post with regards to Seraph's meta of dramatics?

[Thor665]

Dorf, okay, redirect that question to you Nacho.

[Thor665]

I'm as vanilla as the bean.

Nacho is next.

Also - WTFLOLOMG. That is all.

[Thor665]

Yeah, PR is next and last to claim.

I'm going to go take some Zanex and I'll be back tomorrow to see if any of this makes more sense then.

[Thor665]

The Powerrox and Lat claims align. Not willing to rule out a Powerrox as RBer theory yet.

Can anyone see any justification for Lat claiming false to protect scumbuddy singer? I'm leaning towards Lat as the most honest of the claims though I'm not sure how I feel about his need to read up commentary which, this morning, looks a little off..

I do not see it likely for town to be Watcher, Watcher, Jailkeeper, One Shot Neighborizer as that is a pretty stacked town power base. I believe, and think it's generally accepted, that town Watcher is one of the most powerful PRs. I'm currently leaning towards wanting to pick scum from the double Watcher options.

Powerrox's claim works only to support Lat. Note Thor target night 1 which Seraph did not confirm despite watching me night 1 in addition to the obvious block of Lat's power. That means for Seraph to be town that both singer and Powerrox are scum, but I don't think it does much for clarification of the Lat claim.

Did any of the claimed PRs do any breadcrumbing? I would like to see breadcrumbing examples.

[Thor665]

Bleh, above is all stream of consciousness, isn't it? Let's try to clarify and make it concise;

In short - the Power claim shows alignment with the Lat claim but not with the Seraph claim. For Seraph to be town both singer and Powerrox need to be scum. Lat does not appear to have any immediate connections except insomuch as Power's claim supports comments he already said but that is alignment indifferent.

I want breadcrumb quotes from any PR claimed player that can produce them.
I'm currently leaning Lat as the most honest feeling of the PRs.

[Thor665]

I wasn't aware breadcrumbing made you so angry. I'll put you down as a 'no' then?

[Thor665]

The fact that Powerrox isn't a claimed Watcher?

Call it a hunch.

[Thor665]

That means for Seraph to be town that both singer and Powerrox are scum

I'm missing why this is true.

Because that would mean Powerrox is fakecounterclaiming you as Watcher, and singer lied about her visit to mothrax. They have to both be scum if you're not.

Also, Powerrox claimed a jailkeep visit of me and Seraph claimed a watch of me - so only one or neither of them can be telling the truth about their night one actions, certainly both can't be truthful. Again, showing scum in that mix.

[Thor665]

Mod: I'll just come out and ask the direct question I really want an answer to - feel free to re-write it into a form you feel comfortable answering that is fair to both sides

My question is - would a Watcher watching a jailkept person receive a result different from watching a person who was not targeted by anyone?

[Thor665]

Our QT was very empty. We got neighborized at the start of D2.

OH HAWT DAMN!

Yo, Reck, wanna explain this?

[Thor665]

DH, you'd make a good living as a politician.

Yes, I skipped my previous draft of a post when I noticed the Reck thing, but I noted DH's dance of avoidance. Whatta bum.

Please note that the order of night actions is stated in the rule post right after rule #21, if that's what you were looking for.

[Thor665]

@PR - You're mistaking the meaning of trickery. Trickery is used in that sentence along with small text - suggesting the ban is on trickery that is *like using small text*. That is generally accepted as a form of trickery that prevents the message from being seen - like, I dunno, posting a picture that has a file name that if you right click it includes relevant game info.

Breadcrumbing is generally accepted as allowable trickery, and is not in the same category as it is out and in the open.

I want all discussion on this topic that isn't immediately game relevant now dropped and/or taken to Mafia Discussion for debate. I want Reck's commentary on my above question.

[Thor665]

Our QT was very empty. We got neighborized at the start of D2.

OH HAWT DAMN!

Yo, Reck, wanna explain this?

Wait, arrrgh! Start of Day 2, not start of Day 3.

Never mind, I am dumb and over eager.

[Thor665]

TBQH, Powerrox's adamant anger over the "trickery" thing screams scum that is butthurt over being outdone by a well-placed breadcrumb from town.

You find Seraph's breadcrumb awesome and well placed? He used the word watch.

[Thor665]

Normally I'd mock Reck for that last post. However I'm going on an extended LA situation - I'll be active on weekends but my work week got really busy until mid-March. I'll not be taking on any new games and am focused on just maintaining in my other actives. Expect a drop in activity and focus on weekdays and a flurry of activity on weekends.

Regards,
Thor.

Mod - partial V/LA all work weeks until March 11th, high activity on weekends promised.

[Thor665]

Well, there was a quick flurry and somewhere in there people made some sort of confirmation error because I'm now on the scum list, so the logic went awry somewhere. I'm at work - will have a substantive post later this evening (10pm EST is when I should start on it).

[Thor665]

I'm getting fucking tired of waiting, and everyone continuing to conspicuously disappear when it's crunch-time is not giving me good vibes.

Considering I am still abiding by my last V/LA and you took one right when I did I think I'll settle for making this face at you. The high horse, get off it.

PR should claim who he protected - if it's one of the suspect pool that is viable info to have.

@Reck - how are you feeling now about Seraph's

Okay, first off there was a lot of excited 'this guy isn't scum if X flips town' stuff that is what put me in the scum suspect list. The X was Seraph. Seraph was scum. If I am on anybody's suspect list I *really* want to see the case. It doesn't effing exist, so you might as well create it now.

Moving on;

Nacho's singer push looks suspect.
Reck's super excited 'look at Seraph's awesome breadcrumb of using the word watch once' looks suspect. (he was also trying to get PR lynched at this point for some reason which is

Singer is town unless that was the most clever bus ever.
PR is town because his role makes sense at this stage.
I'm town.
Two scum left - two players left.
I'm still in V/LA hell, so if I'm wrong on any of the above conclusions I'm going to vote wrong and help town lose sooner or later anyway. So why wait. If I am wrong and this leads to a quicklynch I'll accept the hatred that will be my due, but I don't see three weeks of talking changing my mind on any of the above conclusions.

Vote: Nachomama

More obvious one.
Reck - why so serious to try to get PR back in suspect pool?

[Thor665]

Eh, @Reck was originally going to be a ding at him for breadcrumb thing that, upon consideration, I realized I didn't care about the answer.

[Thor665]

Will wait for everyone to check in. Thor could be scum bussing Nacho with such a dirty move.

@Thor: What kind of intelligent...nay, semi-intelligent town JK would NOT keep confirmed town? It's mind-bogglingly dumb. That being said, I'm only convinced singer is town at this point, and I'm leaning towards a you/Thor scumteam for the reasons singer pointed out.

Reck/Dramonic is going to sheep singer logic? Wooosh! And who is the "you" in the you/Thor scumteam since you're talking to me in that post.

Also, if I'm bussing Nacho then vote Nacho, win/win.

And PR's role makes immense sense as town. I don't see scum getting a roleblocker vs. Watcher/1-shot town. Plus having one protective role is exceedingly common.

@singer - if you're trying to meta my lylo play then you're giving me a very narrow field to work from. The most recent lylo I was in as town was Newbie 955 - I was the first vote that day. My logic, was here Looks like the same general mindset of aggressiveness and/or annoyance at slow days as I played up in my last two scum game lylos. I will note the reason I play scum so well is because I play scum like I play town, indeed I basically forget I'm scum whenever I play scum - I personally try to avoid doing anything as scum that I wouldn't also do as town, and use the same sort of logic and cases I do as town. So simply because I'm aggressive in lylo as scum doesn't mean that I would be unaggressive as town. In fact, I tend to believe it means the opposite. When I have clear logic to drive my vote I am aggressive, when I am unsure I play more reserved. I think that's pretty clear and comes across as how I play in all my games, town or scum. It's up to you to look at the rest of my play and figure out if this is Thorscum or Thortown.

I'd also advise you to look at Reck and Nacho at the same time. I am very content to be compared to their play this game.

[Thor665]

Oh, and Reck - to answer your question which I sort of skipped over. Even you are agreeing there were two confirmed town, so...

The only thing that niggles me with PR is that scum didn't kill him because he was functionally the Doc. If they have a RBer it makes a lot more sense, and if they don't then I suppose it was just a desperate role of the die as PR is a lot more lynchable than either singer or Lat would have been. But balance wise I just can't accept the 1-shot neighbor and Watcher vs. 2 goons and 1 RBer as balanced. I'm willing to gamble on my PR read, plus the scum being in the neighborizer group makes the death of the neighborizer make more sense to me.

[Thor665]

@PR - what don't you understand about yesterday? Scum was lynched, now we are in today. Explain the confusion and maybe I can help, but you gotta narrow the field.

[Thor665]

@Reck - though after those claims you were clamoring for a singer or PR lynch. What clarified your head to Seraph?

[Thor665]

For the record, if, come Monday, people start talking and anyone makes a comment about how I'm not around to discuss things my reply will be snarky, oh so very snarky.

That is all.

[Thor665]

Well, I'm going to be on a loose hiatus for the work week as discussed in my V/LA. I can check in semi-regular but will only really be able to post in the evenings and then only if I decided sleep and food are less important than this game, so don't hold your breaths. I'll be aggressively available next weekend as well.

Reck needs to either make a case for PR or singer scum or else he should have *exactly* zero issues with lynching Nacho since then he should know he's scum and even if he wants to sell the 'Thor is bussing scum, lawl' line he should still be happy voting him.
PR should claim who he jailkept prior to end of day.
Nacho should die at the end of a rope.

[Thor665]

@Reck - I know Nacho is scum because I don't believe singer or PR are scum. Derpy-der-derp.

I am only confirmed town if you're backing off on all the 'PR might be scum' blather you were spouting as of yesterday and you think I was the scum who sent in the kill. Herpy-her-herp.

[Thor665]

Carrot sucks for not targeting night 1 - that is all.

Looking back on the claims we can see that PR directly supported Lat in his power claim *and* claimed a target of me that Seraph hadn't indicated seeing despite targeting me that night. In short - if PR is scum then he hated Seraph and wanted the gamble yesterday to fail.

Nacho's choice to support Seraph when two alternate claims were going against him is way less supportable. That was scum trying to help a buddy push through a mislynch to try and go for the glory and is not the more methodical and cerebral Nacho I know and have killed/been killed by in other games.

[Thor665]

@singer - I planted exactly one 'seed of doubt' about PR today and that was the 'niggle post' in 805 wherein I concluded by saying he was town despite my niggle. If you think that is planting a seed of doubt than you must be convinced Reck has a rainforest sprouting in his back yard at this stage.

[Thor665]

So why did you go for Nacho instead of Reck? Because by your logic, both of them should be scum.

And if I'd voted Reck you could reverse the question and still ask me it

Basically I went for Nacho because he was the more obvious feeling of the two and I suspected it'd be easier to get support for that lynch from the players who didn't have the advantage I did.

[Thor665]

Yes I would, in fact. I'm wondering, if you're telling the truth and you are the third town left in this game, why you would want to go up against Reck tomorrow instead of Nacho.

And I'm wondering why if that's so bad I should want to go up against Reck today instead of Nacho. The question is circular and there is no clear answer to give other then the one I already supplied - Nacho is the more obvious scum.

Why did you think it would be so easy to get support without a case when we're clearly in between a rock and a hard place trying to win this game after 3 mistakes in a row?

I did present a case besides PoE.
I accused Nacho of trying to help push over the singer lynch yesterday in order to help scumbuddy Seraph. I also noted how he wasn't acting like th eusual logical Nacho I'm used to because he just handwaved the conflicting PR claims *while voting singer and not the conflicting claim*.

I'm okay if you aren't impressed by the size/scope/brilliance of the case, but let's not pretend it doesn't exist.

[Thor665]

@singer - I do pride myself on my scum game, so sure, I can understand your reservations. I will also, again, note that my scum game is good because i play it like my town game and vice-versa so the meta fear is sort of awkward to showcase since basically all you've done is point out that I play aggressive in lylo.

I will note I did show you a town game where I got aggressive - is the extent of your concern simply the speed and aggression? The logic for me is fairly clear, and the lack of hammer shows that my logic is either correct or I'm scum, so the speed alone isn't an issue. You just need to go back and consider me and Nacho and decide who is more likely scum, because one of us really should be the lynch today as town knows it's a 50/50 for the scum hit.

I would also advise you to chat with PR more, if you believe him as confirmed town the two of you should really talk over your concerns/thoughts about the situation and try to come to a mutual decision.

[Thor665]

Nacho isn't stupid. That "slip" was on purpose so that after he inevitably gets lynched and flips scum, everyone will look at that statement tomorrow and call it a "scumslip" and use it to lynch me over Thor. He's flailing now, and it's 100% that Thor is his scumbuddy.

I will say with the pair of you flapping so much I feel much better about my decisions today. I'll also note he made the same "slip" with me, and also it's not even a slip. Is there a scumtell that involves misrepping your buddy?

@Nacho - your logic of voting Reck is based off the logic of me being scum. Why do you want to lynch him as opposed to me? Lack of a hammer on you if you're town 100% makes me and Reck scum regardless of all your twitting about "now PR is cleared" and whatnot. Is this just a really clumsy distancing attempt at the 11th hour or what?

@Singer - PR's JK options were not brilliant, but they do strongly suggest I'm less likely scum simply because I've been targeted twice and the scumkill has never failed to go through yet. Considering Reck is selling Thor/Nacho that is pretty relevant for last night.

[Thor665]

That's why I said it "strongly suggests" not "proves" There are two nights (one of which there were only two scum) where I, if scum, must not have been the one who sent in the kill. That makes me more likely town statistically. It especially blows holes in Reck's Thor/Nacho pairing. Since you're so excited by my scum meta feel free to look at my scum games and see how often I volunteer and desire to send in the kill because usually I am pretty confident in how townish I look.

Also, note how I'm the only one of the three suspects today who apparently believed we were the three suspects at the start of the day. The others sort of slowly dredged into the idea (Reck had to give up on his PR as scum theory and a sort of vague tossing up his hands post when he voted Nacho, and Nacho by coming to the brilliant conclusion that PR was town) Each of them sprang on the other one when this happened even though they are clearly both of the stated belief that I'm the scumbuddy. Hello distancing action.

[Thor665]

I don't know who to think is scum anymore, other than to know that singer is 100% town. Which means, out of the final three, there is two scum

, making our odds of lynching correctly pretty damn high. ALL of them are scummy, though. Before today I would've just been like, "Thor & Nacho, gg"... but a JAILKEEPER WHO DOESN'T PROTECT FUCKING CONFIRMED TOWN is pinging my scumdar A LOT.

Singer = 100% town.

Final three have two scum.

I'll go out on a limb and presume you weren't counting yourself in the final three, so...misrep?

[Thor665]

Thor, would you be willing to move to a Recka-lynch?

I would, though my question is, why would you?

100% from your perspective either Nacho or I (or both) are scum. Reck is a potential wild card from your perspective so...?

And, look! You haven't been quicklynched yet! Clearly, if the votes were on a townie, then the lynch would've gone through much quicker (unless his scumbuddy is already on the wagon... OH HAI THOR).

HAI RECK! The only reason a town Nacho isn't quicklynched is if he's not town...wait, what? Oh, durn, ya caught me with your brilliant logic.

Way to paint us wrong here. We never called him scum. All we said was that we didn't understand his choices, and were it NOT for the easy PoE involved, we'd be considering him scum.

So pinging scumdar A LOT =/= calling someone scum after saying they are one of three suspects?

Okay, durn, ya caught me again. Obvious misrep is obvious.

The attempt for Thor to bus his scumbuddy and then go on the offensive against us is just insulting at this point. If you feel so much more strongly about us than Nacho, then why isn't your vote on us, instead?

Wait...so you think I'm scummy for voting my scumbuddy...and...I...wait...what? No, seriously, what? I'm scummy because I'm bussing my buddy and have been saying the lynch should be me or Nacho all in an attempt to get town to lynch you today? That's my scum plan? Uf da!

[Thor665]

@singer - every single one where I'm not the roleblocker?

I'm guessing that won't sell it for you, eh? Okay;

My first game as scum, especially note near the end where my scumbuddy even had told the mod he'd do the kill action and I'd clearly stated I was concerned there were hidden PRs.

Another Mini Scum game Powers and twists abound, there is a grand total of one night where I don't send in the NK and that only because my partner had a 100% rock solid excuse if tracked (and I was spooked he really had become split loyalty scum).

And frankly, yes, just go look at any scum game where I'm not the RBer and I'm sure I'm all over volunteering to do the NK all the time.

[Thor665]

So singer is 100% confirmed at this stage.
PR continues to be confirmed simply because I don't think the setup is roleblocker/rolecop/goon vs. 1-shot neighbor/Watcher

HAI RECK!

Vote: Reckamonic

I will point out lack of the kill means spit and nothing, as Reck will correctly point out that scumThor wouldn't have killed last night. That said, he is scum, his actions yesterday highlight how he's scum, and we have this won and easy unless anyone still believes I am scum. Bring on the cases, I'll be happy to batter away at them. Then go re-read Reck and realize he's the final scumball.

[Thor665]

Also, in before mass prod

[Thor665]

Sweet, so town can lynch you safely and JK me - win/win, yes? As town you'd be super excited to see that happen - please self vote.

I will agree optimal play for Powerrox would have been to not announce his JK target but that's mostly an ed-ju-ma-cation for endgame discussion.

[Thor665]

Meh, if she's wrong than either her or PR are the scum - in which case you'd be an equally awful player wanting to lynch me so...

If PR is scum I'm calling foul on the balance of this game though.
And if singer is scum I'm amazed she opted to play the long game and not hammer Reck when she had the chance yesterday.

[Thor665]

And if singer is scum I'm amazed she opted to play the long game and not hammer Reck when she had the chance yesterday.

lol, Thor, you did the SAME THING in our scum game when you didn't hammer...which got you killed. *not bitter*

Was that a lylo hammer though? I agree I still think I should have done it in retrospect, but I was playing for town points for the next lynch cycle. It would have been different with you, hammer yesterday was auto scum win and thus no reason for it not to happen (much less ask for an unvote, dither, and then hammer a buddy).

[Thor665]

That was a good game - though I'm really embarrassed I went and lynched me pal AGar - that was a poor showing. Other than that and the town read on Nacho (which I think I got from Confid as I recall - I clearly just have to constantly lynch Nacho as apparently I can't read him for a hill o' beans) my play was pretty steady and reads good. Of course scum made it easy for me via PoE the last few days after the failed attempt to push through the singer mislynch.

I'm seriously amazed at the whole jailkeeper/watcher target triangle. Was I right in guessing that was just a desperation kill attempt at that stage? Fear the Watcher would watch the JKer, yeah? Though I don't blame Reck for trying to drum up antagonism on PR for not protecting Lat, he must have been dancing on sunshine a bit after that kill went through.

[Thor665]

@xReck - I will agree it was perhaps town biased simply insomuch as I think Watcher is uber powerful. I am surprised you guys didn't have a roleblock though, that is usually the ultimate scum balancing tool. I had expected you to be the RBer in all honesty.

[Thor665]

Though I suppose I should add, the town PRs didn't win the game for town. Scumhunting, logic, and a bit of luck on some coin flips won it for town.

[Thor665]

@singer - yeah, but let's be honest. I'm happy Powerrox was a PR because it helped verify him. I know as scum I always pray for the strong players to be PRs and the weak ones to be vanilla.

@Nacho - Seraph's play was planned though, yes? I'm guessing you guys didn't know that Lat was a Watcher, but the play to push through a singer mislynch seemed pretty clear and functional. It was a good move at the time.

@Lat - DH promised the QTs when he had time, though I do agree that I very much look forward to seeing them. And you thought Reck was town instead of me? For shame, I'm *always* the most townie.

Also, I think it is appropriate to give a shout out to DH for running this thing. He was, by far, the most draconian mod I've ever dealt with in regards to posting deadlines, but he really did keep the game flowing and active throughout. Props for that, and some funny flavor.

[Thor665]

Pumpernickel?

[Thor665]

I just lost a lot of respect for you.

[Thor665]

The above was a lot more clever when it was in direct response to the claim of baking white bread, fyi.

[Thor665]

Though that can happen with lots of power role interactions - that's why lots of players recommend mass claim as a pro-town move. It makes sense that mass claim has as much chance to help town as to help scum, yes?