Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over

[DemonHybrid]

/confirm

[DemonHybrid]

I like the game's flavor.

Ninja Monkeys are eating fishbowl goldfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




oh and there's mafia too

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: AGar

because I know Parama and an RVS bandwagon on him doesn't tell us shit.

[DemonHybrid]

Actually, you know what? Neither would AGar's.

Unvote, Vote: crazypianist

[DemonHybrid]

You have a problem with DemonHybrid's vote on you, pianist?

Actually, you know what? Neither would AGar's.

Unvote, Vote: crazypianist

Lol

I'd say yes.

Can we get a bandwagon on this guy?

[DemonHybrid]

Um...

What bluff? I like my vote on you now.

[DemonHybrid]

Mod: Can you please post your votecounts instead of editing posts so I can ISO you when needed?

[DemonHybrid]

Oso, you make a lot of good points after rereading; the winger suspicion is completely valid in my eyes.

However, since I'm not going to worry about setup speculation yet though with this traitor business, and crazy seems a bit more obvious to me at the moment, I'm not going to vote winger. I'm quite happy with crazy's panic and I want more information from him and, right now, his death. But I just wanted to mention that I agree, just not to the extent that you believe, so consider my eye on him.

[DemonHybrid]

Wait, come to think of it...

DH, why did you vote twice in the RVS?

Because I felt like I RVS voted the wrong person and no information would come of it.

[DemonHybrid]

2. DemonHybrid, your vote was not random. Your bluff was that you were clearly trying to get someone you saw as a noob to crack under pressure that didn't really exist. Your "wagon" didn't really have a reason.

It is a random vote because the person who I was voting was random. My reasoning and wagon pushing was not random; in fact, no one's reasoning should be "random", the reasoning being to get us out of RVS. It's the VOTEE that is random. If I had voted for anyone else, you would not be singing this tune.

So, do you have anything else?

[DemonHybrid]

Maybe it would help you if I went over my course of actions.

I voted AGar to get a wagon on him to give us information, while saying that Parama's wagon would give us no information; he's a smooth enough player to write off RVS wagons like they're nothing. After which, I thought about it for a minute and realized that AGar would probably do the same thing. I've played in games with both players, and I know them well enough that wagons on them would give us little information.

So, I picked a person at random. I thought about voting winger to get a wagon on him, but decided on you. I don't know why I chose you, but you were one of the players with a vote already. THAT would be random.

Yeah, sure. You can nitpick and say it's not fully random from 12 players, but who really cares? You reacted badly to the vote, so I like it; it instantly became non-random, but when I chose you, yes, it was random from a downsized pool of players.

[DemonHybrid]

So, in other words, you took the vote completely serious. Which is everyone's case on you.

[DemonHybrid]

Crazy, you can say that it wasn't a bad reaction all you want, but the fact that you're even trying to peg a specific reason on why I voted you onto my vote shows clearly that you DO care about my vote. I really don't buy any of what you're saying.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Sundy

Forget the crazy wagon, Sundy just made me a whole hell of a lot sure that he is scum. Like Parama said; three suspicions but not a vote placed on EITHER one of them? THREE? Instead, you go with one of the big bandwagons, say you agree with it, and that's it, right?

CP may or may not be covering up for his RVS-vote seriousness, but Sundy just started screaming "HEY I'M SCUM" from his very first serious post.

[DemonHybrid]

I express negative vibes about 3 players, and next thing you know all of them freak out to various degrees. Why so touchy, hmm? Granted I often draw a wagon on myself the first day, and maybe my play-style is at fault, but in my view people need to chill out (if they're town), and keep on being crazy to demonstrate your evil to everyone (if they're scum).

Problem with Sundy: Rattling off suspicions of 3 players, then voting for a competing wagon, tying it with the leading wagon.

Problem with [winger]: See my previous postings. Has done nothing to ease this belief.

Problem with TwistedSpoon: Newbie card is not a valid excuse. If you play the newbie card for every player who makes one newbie screw up, everyone is going to take that and run with it if their first game they draw scum. Seriously, there should be a minimum 1 NG requirement on-site.[/mdrant]

AGar - :goodposting:, though I don't agree with your point on TwistedSpoon. Newbie card playing has been null to me in the past.

And from what I've experienced in the past, there is a TON of scum motivation to doing exactly what you're doing at this stage in the game: expressing suspicion on multiple players but voting a popular wagon. I'm suspicious that you seem to have absolutely no realization of how scummy that is.

[DemonHybrid]

"And from what I've experienced in the past, there is a TON of scum motivation to doing exactly what you're doing at this stage in the game: expressing suspicion on multiple players but voting a popular wagon. I'm suspicious that you seem to have absolutely no realization of how scummy that is."

Was meant to be towards Sundy, apologies.

[DemonHybrid]

I'll quickly express my thoughts as I can't be online for too much right now:

I don't believe the claim myself. Putting aside all his scummy behavior, he was way too quick with the claim. A real doc would have at least waited until someone was about to hammer. He even wanted to claim at L-2, which strikes me as scummy.
But staying on the wagon won't do much. We'll most likely lose him tonight, so UNVOTE:

So, you don't believe the claim, but "We'll most likely lose him tonight"?

NEW TARGET ACQUIRED

UNVOTE, VOTE: AKIRA

[DemonHybrid]

This vote is not coming off. Akira is slipping all over the place, harder than a baby on an ice skating rink.

[DemonHybrid]

Why do you find these people before me Matt?

Cause demon is a pretty cool dude. eh finds mafia and doesn't afraid of anything

[DemonHybrid]

And I'm still waiting to see how Akira comes back from his slip, because the comeback dictates more about a player than the initial slip.

...um, what?

A comeback is what CONFUSES the playerbase; the slip is genuine.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm with the Cecily-Akira theory.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not defending Akira.

I'm saying that it could have just been an error in wording.

Speech is one of the easiest things to mess up without realizing it

actions, especially in a place such as this, are deliberate and show more about a person than what they say.

And I'm using the word slip loosely.

Oh, my god.

[DemonHybrid]

[DemonHybrid]

Let me explain myself:

I'll quickly express my thoughts as I can't be online for too much right now:

I don't believe the claim myself. Putting aside all his scummy behavior, he was way too quick with the claim. A real doc would have at least waited until someone was about to hammer. He even wanted to claim at L-2, which strikes me as scummy.
But staying on the wagon won't do much. We'll most likely lose him tonight, so

The way I wrote this post,

the contradiction is obvious

, I can see that. But when I said we'd most likely lose him tonight, I meant that in the case that he was telling the truth.
So what I wanted to say is:

if I'm wrong and he's really the doc

, then we'll most likely lose him tonight.

I was in a hurry posting this and I missed that part, so the real 'slip' here is that I missed a crucial part of my sentence.

The bolded is all we need from you.

So you recognize it was a slip. Cool.

[DemonHybrid]

4 posts while I was writing and now I'm at L-1?

I'm a Vanilla Townie

OH LOOK He said he was a VT!

That means he's confirmed town! Right, Cecily?

Right?

....

Right, Cecily?

[DemonHybrid]

Whoever doesn't have a vote on Akira has my complete permission to hammer him. If he flips scum, I will cling onto a Cecily vote for dear life. You'll get an unvote from me over my dead body.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Cecily

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: DemonHybrid

Yesterday smells completely like chaining lynches after a bus.

Nice try though.

Can't go into too much detail. Sitting on my phone in scranton until the weather's nicer, but I have a comment.

What is your case for me over anyone else who voted Cecily?

[DemonHybrid]

And Parama posted minutes after I did. What is your point?

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: DemonHybrid

Yesterday smells completely like chaining lynches after a bus.

Nice try though.

Can't go into too much detail. Sitting on my phone in scranton until the weather's nicer, but I have a comment.

What is your case for me over anyone else who voted Cecily?

You set your vote in mind on D1. It's straight up chaining lynches.

But how am I different than someone like Parama, or better yet, someone who didn't vote Akira but voted Cecily?

Sundy is suspect to me for that reason.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, actually, Bub was the one that wasn't on the first wagon.

I'm on my iPad and things are tough to read, names are hard to remember.

[DemonHybrid]

But how am I different than someone like Parama, or better yet, someone who didn't vote Akira but voted Cecily?

This post:

Whoever doesn't have a vote on Akira has my complete permission to hammer him. If he flips scum, I will cling onto a Cecily vote for dear life. You'll get an unvote from me over my dead body.

That's not a town mindset. At all.

You realize that Parama said the same thing? Why aren't you on his case?

For the record, I find you extremely misguided town. You find the first person who committed such an action and bite them instead of looking at the big picture, and I don't think that you as scum would try something so wacky.

You bring up a point about cecily being a good target for a lynch, though. What do you think of the late wagoners and those off of the Akira wagon but on the Cecily wagon?

[DemonHybrid]

So, you're voting based off of word choice over intent? Think about what you're saying.

My question: there are people who voted Cecily but not Akira, and there were people who voted Akira late and still voted Cecily. What do you think of those people?

[DemonHybrid]

oh man DH you're acting like scum now. Why are you, instead of providing a defense to AGar's accusations, deflecting to me EVERY SINGLE TIME? Especially since I don't think you've ever pressed any suspicions on me.
Town read redacted; guess I'm gullible for whatever type of WIFOM Akira pulled there.

Parama, where did I say I thought you were scum? You've looked town all game.

[DemonHybrid]

My only point in defense of AGar is that if he's going to suspect me for it and not anyone else for doing the same thing, his read is off and he's literally picking from random. I think that you and AGar are very town.

[DemonHybrid]

So, you're voting based off of word choice over intent? Think about what you're saying.

My question: there

are people

is only one person still alive

who voted Cecily but not Akira, and there were people who voted Akira late and still voted Cecily. What do you think of those people?

FTFY and that would be Bub Bidderskins - re:not voting Akira, voting Cecily.

To the second part, crazy is the most glaring example but Twistedspoon could also qualify depending on your personal definition of "late".

I know why I don't like either of those players at the moment, but I'd like to hear exactly why you don't and why you took such a roundabout way to point a finger at Bub and crazy without directly naming them.

Laziness. I would have named them right off but I'm not on the position to freely do what I want. I don't have a mouse and a keyboard.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry for multi posting but yaddayaddashutupimdoingmybest

After Akira and cecily, by pure play alone, crazy's D1 actions don't ring well to me. However, in the context of the last two lynch wagons, I didn't name anyone off. In fact, I hadn't looked at them yet, with the exception of checking whether it was Sundy or Bub who was off Akiras but on Cecilys, and I didn't check to see if there were more people. I only called to look at said people, and never neared names, so in the context of the wagons, I can't give you a "this is why I suspect Twisted, bub and crazy" answer.

All I'm doing is promoting discussion, organizing suspects and creating hypotheticals without coming off as aggressive.

[DemonHybrid]

@DH:

And Parama posted minutes after I did. What is your point?

But how am I different than someone like Parama, or better yet, someone who didn't vote Akira but voted Cecily?

You realize that Parama said the same thing? Why aren't you on his case?

These are all deflecting suspicion off you onto me, which implies you suspect me, though your reason is non-existent.

Read, Parama. I'm saying that you did the same thing that I did, so if AGar suspects me, its like he pulled a name out of a hat. If I said that you were scummy for doing these things, it would imply that I'm scum.

Not once did I say you were scum at any point in the game, nor did I say or imply that you should be lynched. Please read closer.

[DemonHybrid]

Let me rephrase it:

For example: Parama and I did the same thing. Why isn't he suspect to you as well, AGar? Your reasoning is ludacris if you are voting me just for that, so please look at the people late wagoning Akira and voting Cecily without voting Akira, in this case, Bub.

Is that better?

[DemonHybrid]

Let me rephrase it:

For example: Parama and I did the same thing. Why isn't he suspect to you as well, AGar? Your reasoning is ludacris if you are voting me just for that, so please look at the people late wagoning Akira and voting Cecily without voting Akira, in this case, Bub.

Is that better?

Parama didn't latch onto a refusal to vote on D1. He may have guaranteed a scum-flip on Cecily, but he didn't insinuate that come hell or high water he was going to be voting Cecily. You did. THAT is the key point here.

The deflection onto Parama, I get what it is. It's a tactic to clear yourself, not throw suspicion onto Parama. Instead you're just making yourself look worse.

Just go easily.

So, you are voting me over word choice and not action nor intent?

AGar, you're a much better player than this.

[DemonHybrid]

If Oso is town, look at AGar?

If Oso is scum, you'll cry yourself to sleep?

Vote: Twistedspoon

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

It's 5 to lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

I'd say there is definite scum on both Oso's and TS's wagons. I need to do some analysis.

[DemonHybrid]

Hmm.

RBT, can I get thoughts from you on every player still alive so far?

[DemonHybrid]

....hmm.

I want my answers from RBT before I think about voting.

Funny how two votes and three active lurking claims come right after I ask her for her opinions.

[DemonHybrid]

AGar, you also didn't comment on RBTs post until huts now, 6 or so of your posts since RBT posted that. How come?

[DemonHybrid]

*just now

[DemonHybrid]

I'm at a complete impasse between RBT and AGar. I don't like AGar's switch in the least, but it's characteristic of Parama to do so of any alignment, in case anyone is wondering why I'm singling AGar out.

Meh. I don't like RBT's answer at all.

Vote: Riceballtail

This has been a tough day. Lots of weird play to sort out.

[DemonHybrid]

As a PS, I'm not going to go and line up suspicion, we'll take things as they go, but as TS pointed out, I don't like RBT's hypocrisy in saying that others have contributed nothing when RBT is very clearly active lurking. I'm just not sure who is genuine about their suspicions on RBT.

I'm willing to bet that someone on the RBT hatewagon at this point is scum. It was a very subtle switch as soon as I asked RBT to give her reads. This is a situation that I DO NOT like.

[DemonHybrid]

So you don't like my wagon, you think there's scum on it, and you're adding onto it?

Yeah.

1. There's a traitor in this game.
2. Assuming the traitor was picked up, I can't believe you haven't heard of bussing.

[DemonHybrid]

Basically, I don't have to like your wagon, but I also don't like you alive. They're RIGHT; you have been completely active lurking and dodging play all game. The question is "Who is GENUINE about it?"

[DemonHybrid]

Basically, I don't have to like your wagon, but I also don't like you alive. They're RIGHT; you have been completely active lurking and dodging play all game. The question is "Who is GENUINE about it?"

So far, 0/3.

So, you're saying that you believe there are 3 more mafia? Or do you honestly believe that town would vote and lie about their suspicions, given that it's 3 experienced players voting and other semi-experienced players who suspect you for the same?

That's a rhetorical question by the way. It was a lame conclusion for you to come to.

[DemonHybrid]

Sweet, make that 0/4. Your vote is just as bad as the others.

o_o

Someone care to ask for a claim?

Rice, claim.

[DemonHybrid]

I am not up for a RBT lynch right now. The fact that she would say such things as "0/4" indicate town to me. Yes, I know it's WIFOM, but scum are never that cheeky when it comes to people who are voting for them.

RBT's not the best scum player.

Here is some meta. She lurks when she's scum.

And yes, what you said is WIFOM.

[DemonHybrid]

Rice, claim.

After you, scumbag.

Honestly? Do you not even care that you are L-1?

RBT, if you are town, I'm going to give you some really needed advice after this game is over.

[DemonHybrid]

Why would I claim when there is somewhere between zero and none for a case against me?

Active lurking, weak reads, a ton of OMGUS and a refusal to comply with requests is not a case?

[DemonHybrid]

Since DH is going to run and hide like the scumbag he is

I left for TWENTY MINUTES.

Think about how crazy you sound.

[DemonHybrid]

1. Plenty of content, pointing out who I think is scum at any point in time. "Active lurking" and "extremely concise" are two different things.

2. My reads are hardly weak. This is fabrication at best, misrep at most likely.

3. OMGUS? As soon as I called AGar out, he voted me. I'm sure that I'm full of OMGUS.

4. Refusal to comply with someone's request does not make one scum.

As stated, what case?

1. Plenty of content.

You currently have the least amount of posts of anyone alive in the game so far. Every post has been a one or two sentence post, with the sentences being extremely minimal in size.

Plenty of content.

...hm.

2. Prove it. I want a paragraph of your reads of everyone alive so far (at least 3 sentences each), complete with one post of evidence to back up your claims. That's NOT a lot to ask.

3. Actually, AGar voted you first.

4. It certainly doesn't help your case.

[DemonHybrid]

1) Word count and post count have no correlation to content count.
2) I'm _STILL_ not going to give scum a report card.
3) He voted first, but he voted me the post after I called him out.
4) And helping scum find the most town-like people is going to help who exactly?

1. Correct. But it's been decided by all of us that you've posted minimal content and did almost 0% scumhunting.
2. If you hadn't noticed, you're really close to dying. Do you really think it still matters? Why don't you want to stay alive? Convince us that you're a competent scumhunter? Give us information? ANYTHING?
3. He posted like 4 times before he voted you after you called him out o_o
4. It helps you to NOT DIE. If you are town, this is a good thing, because you stay alive to help town. If you are scum, you are doing it WRONG. Either way, you are playing badly.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, hammer away, please. Despite alignment, either way, RBT is a threat to town in the long run by either being scum or purely anti-town, and it's past the point of where a claim can save her.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, hammer away, please. Despite alignment, either way,

despite alignment?
I don't like that part

it's inevitable though

VOTE: RBT

Read the rest of the post. >_> You can't just cut off a post halfway through and call it bad.

[DemonHybrid]

9 hours from when you asked RBT to claim and she has yet to post. You could have at least waited for a claim. There was no rush.

RBT wasn't going to claim. She had ample time to.

[DemonHybrid]

Willing to bet that it's someone that Parama was feuding with at some point during the game. I get the vibe that whoever killed him did it out of fear.

Analysis to come after classes.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm thinking Oso is town. He's a competent scum player and him going out on a limb like this to go after Bub and picking up suspicion along the way is indicative of townish behavior, though I believe his read is wrong. Bub's acted town all game.

I'll give some of my reads.

Twisted: Town. Twisted is rather new and I don't think that he would have played it cool when he thought he was lynched if he was scum. Feigning town as scum until your flip is a rather underrated advanced tactic, and TS just came out looking extremely town after that.

Oso: Town, as explained above.

Bub: Townish. I've played with scum Bub and he's a rather lurky, slippy fellow. Perhaps it's gut, but I don't really think that his return towards Oso has been that scummy, and I get a purely town vs town vibe from them both.

That leaves CP, AGar and Sundy.

And upon some further digging, Sundy has a few indications pointing towards him being scum.

1. his prod
2. his absence on the Akira wagon, like a Cecily light. This is more on the null side, given Cecily's town flip
3. His bickering with Parama, and Parama's death.

Vote: Sundy

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: *like Cecily, but the lite version.

AGar is suspect, but he's had some really outward plays and I don't think that's his style when it comes to him being scum, but he's fooled me before. CP....I'm not really sure on, since there is that beginning of the game post-RVS fiasco of his that is still on the table, but he's kind of rather improved since then and I don't think my read on him in any case is that stable. Sundy's the best bet as to where my vote will go.

Sundy's prod is weird because he's the only one in the game to have gotten one and, while it's not a pure indication of scumminess, it's a little weird in this context.

[DemonHybrid]

On the one hand I'm not sure DH's reasons on sundy hold much water. Basing your two townie reads off of past games seems slightly weak to me. It's evidence which we can't challenge

On the other hand It's hard to accuse DH of anything since he started the akira wagon (although that being said it was Parama, the mafia traitor, who found the scumslip) :/

I'll have to look elsewhere for now =|

It's the best I have on anyone at the moment. Sure, all of those things alone do not a scum signal make, but combined it raises some red flags for me.

And Sundy is correct; I was the one that found the scumslip.

[DemonHybrid]

From the wiki:

"The Traitor is a role with a pro-Mafia alignment that is not actually in the Mafia family. The Traitor knows who is in the Mafia, but the Mafia do not know who the Traitor is. The Traitor uses through his or her vote to keep the Mafia from getting lynched and wins with the Mafia."

I'm VERY willing to believe that Parama put the rest of the mafia on his vote list and pushed a bit too hard.

[DemonHybrid]

Maybe he didn't at first, but he definitely seems like the kind of player who would bus mafia who don't know that he's the traitor.

Definitely itching in the back of my mind.

Preview edit: I think so. Don't hold me to that 100%, but it's a strong inkling.

[DemonHybrid]

That P edit was for TS, by the way.

[DemonHybrid]

He's voted Oso, Twisted (who's obvtown at this point) and HoS'ed Sundy.

I may have been wrong on my Oso read, but I'm definitely more willing to lynch Sundy first, as per my vote post. His play hasn't gelled at all, and it's hardly cohesive.

Preview edit: I don't think it would be mod-allowed if scum killed their own partner with their own knowledge, but it's an interesting theory. I don't see how it's useful though.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not seeing how it's more of a scum slip over unneeded speculation.

[DemonHybrid]

Alright alright, but lets focus on the scummy connections over power role speculation. At least prioritize your actions, that's what we need right now.

[DemonHybrid]

question: why wasn't I NK'd If i was a confirmed townie like AGar said?
Mafia would have to have overlooked that or disliked Parama :/

They probably saw Parama as more of a threat, hence my theory.

[DemonHybrid]

I haven't made any connections as of yet. I only threw the theory out there and then went to class.

The fact that TS didn't die when he was basically considered obvtown, and instead, Parama dying, shows SOME urgency to kill him. It wasn't a random kill, it most likely had motivation behind it. I hope that much is clear.

It seems what's up for debate right now is "How can anyone see him as a threat if he hasn't really threatened anyone as of late?" and, in response to that, I think that the scum who killed him was pressured by him sometime in the past, knows how sharp of a town player he is (or at least was at the brunt of his lashing earlier on in the game) and felt the need to waste him. Either that, or TS's reads are completely off, though I personally think that TS has been steadily improving.

This scum is somewhat competent. Assuming it was a fear kill, they know that it would be certain death to kill him right after they were pressured by him. It'd be too easy to do the linking. The good play would be to wait a while after the pressure, then waste him when they have some leeway in pressure. I still believe in my theory that it was someone that Parama pressured earlier on in the game, because once the number of suspects start to narrow, that suspicion would naturally arise again. It seems almost entirely too characteristic of both Parama's play and the level of expertise of everyone left in the game.

The HoS on Sundy kinda weirds me out a little bit...everyone who's alive that has had heat from Parama before was voted or butted heads with him for a short time, but only one HoS. So again, he would be my top suspect. I know this is a meta-reliable statement, but Parama definitely seems like the kind of guy who would have a bus-fest if he was a traitor. Call it a hunch, gut, whatever. But it's further supported by the fact that TS isn't dead, which I thought would be the obvious kill last night. It can't be random; the two theories support each other, and this last paragraph of theory is just a supplement to find out who is most likely to pull a move like this, and a slip-bus (which was originally obliviousness to Akira) + HoS seems to be right up his alley. Maybe it's not so erratic as you'd believe.

Also, as stated in the parentheses above, note that Akira was hardly mentioned if at all by Parama before I pointed out his slip, and Sundy had gotten a HoS by that point. Ignored scum + HoS, with votes on other players seems so extremely likely to me.

[DemonHybrid]

Parama's not a subtle guy, I know that much.

[DemonHybrid]

Ok, is anyone else REALLY bothered by the analysis DH is putting up for the NK? Like, it's just not the kind of analysis you expect from a town-player. I'm really uncomfortable with this right now...

VOTE: DemonHybrid

I'm buying hyper-bus on Akira, chain to Cecily.

It's analysis.

Besides, do you have any other evidence than "I think he's scum bussing Akira, and lynched Cecily right after"? Because you haven't posted a damn thing other than that in your case on me.

Votecount 1.6

Akira (7) -

DemonHybrid

, Parama, AGar,

[winger]

,

TwistedSpoon

, Sundy,

crazypianist1116

Cecily (1) - Riceballtail

Not Voting (5) - Maemuki, Oso, Akira, Bud Bidderskins, Cecily

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch, 6 to no lynch.z
The

deadline

is 3:30pm 20th March GMT+10.30.

---

Lynch has been reached!

Votecount 2.2

Cecily (6) -

crazypianist1116

, Parama,

DemonHybrid

,

Maemuki

,

TwistedSpoon

, Bub Bidderskins,

Not Voting (5) - Oso, Cecily, AGar, Sundy, Riceballtail

With 11 Alive it takes 6 to lynch, 5 to no lynch.
The

deadline

is 8:00am 20th March GMT+10.30.

---

Lynch has been reached!

So, why me and why not anyone else who's underlined (like I did with Parama, no deflection, just a hypothetical)? You haven't mentioned a damn thing about their possibility of being scum bussing and then chain lynching Cecily.

Your unexplained iffiness on my analysis must be a really good case, so I'd like you to go into it and explain it if you would.

Mod: Edited out purple, changed underlined to blue. Nearly confused me as to current vote count PM if you would like an edit in another format.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: Not to mention that Mae is dead and flipped town, which further proves that your vote should go somewhere useful.

8 AM and forgetting to complete posts ftw.

[DemonHybrid]

What are you talking about? When did I mention anything about CP specifically?

[DemonHybrid]

Mod: the point of that post was to point out those on both Akira's and Cecily's wagon, not to show who I thought was town...

Edit it back the way it was, but make it blue if you can.

Apologies.. it was originally purple with the colored people as underlined. My misunderstanding here.

[DemonHybrid]

Ok, is anyone else REALLY bothered by the analysis DH is putting up for the NK? Like, it's just not the kind of analysis you expect from a town-player. I'm really uncomfortable with this right now...

Yeah it's a steaming pile of WIFOM. I'm surprised to see it in an experienced player.

Oso, you don't need all that detail on Parama communicating about the traitor. Do a word search of his ISO for "traitor," that should tell you all you need to know w/r/t hints.

I don't like the Oso/DH reads on Parama. Not only are they inexplicably arguing Parama was killed by scum with knowledge of his alignment, they are trying to glean lessons from that improbable event as if it wasn't WIFOM central to do so. I find it hard to believe that both can believe what they're spouting about parama. However I also find it difficult to believe they are both scum

Read. We're specifically stating that its very likely scum killed Parama because they thought he was town and was a threat to them over killing obvtown TS. I never said he was recruited and was neutral to the idea, favoring a reactional scumhunting approach over a theorized one.

Also, you're fencesitting with your reads.

[DemonHybrid]

That Parama was a threat to SCUM, not just any player. That's why it's likely that killed him and not obvtown TS.

Jesus.

Also, good to know that you admit to fencesitting, and as soon as I re-state my argument with no new information, you suddenly make a decision.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, like I said, I paid no attention to that argument. I don't agree with it, so I said he should discredit that theory.

[DemonHybrid]

I see your point, and I'm at least glad that you recognized your mistake. But we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think NK speculation in the fact that we have an obvtown claimed VT that wasn't killed in favor of a strong player has merit; it was clearly done with reason and could be a clue as to who should be lynched. There's clear reasoning, and if you think it's WIFOM, then there's nothing I can do to change that, but I don't think it's as WIFOMy as you might think it is. Not in this context. Or else, yes, I'd normally agree with you. But that's the point of the traitor in this context, and ESPECIALLY in this context, when a judgment call was made instead of taking the easy option, once again, assuming TS is truly town.

[DemonHybrid]

What are you talking about? When did I mention anything about CP specifically?

When in your VCA he became green.

Like when the mod edited my post without me knowing and made them green? That thing that wasn't my fault? Go look again.

AGar. Come on, now.

[DemonHybrid]

For the record, I'm going to be

V/LA from March 19th, 8 AM to March 21st, 8 AM

with mayyyybe a few posts in between, but you'll definitely see a drop of activity from me. Going to New Jersey and then helping out at a Deaf social this weekend.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm smashing my face into the desk over this game.

Over Night 4, I thought about the possibility of two town Watchers.

Hm.

Can anyone compile a list of advantages of the scum team having a traitor?

[DemonHybrid]

Does anyone think 4 mafia vs 2 watchers and a jailkeeper is possible?

[DemonHybrid]

Rolefish much DH?

Seriously?

Point out where I was looking for a role in the following sentence:

"Does anyone think 4 mafia vs. 2 watchers and a jailkeeper is possible?"

1. Where did I ask anyone who was unclaimed to claim?
2. Where did I speculate any unclaimed roles?
3. Was my comment off topic from the "LyLo" conversation that was happening right before my statement?
4. You do know that a watcher and a jailkeeper ALREADY flipped, and that Sundy claimed watcher, right?

[DemonHybrid]

Asking if something is possible generally means you're asking for evidence for the contrary. But it's no big deal.

I was actually looking for an answer, not anything of the contrary. I didn't ask for another role, simply if people thought if that was possible.

[DemonHybrid]

Why so defensive DH?

I'm just showing crazy how uneducated that statement was and how big of an impact a misrep like that can make in a near-endgame situation.

[DemonHybrid]

Does anyone think 4 mafia vs. 2 watchers and a jail keeper is possible?

The real question is whether 3 mafia vs. 2 watchers and a jail keeper is possible. If not, it's time to look for scum partnerships.

See, I would doubt that. It seems like there's no benefit to mafia for having a traitor, and there really doesn't seem to be a scum role that could balance out two watchers and a jailkeeper by itself vs 3 mafia.

Have you reported your first 3 watches?

[DemonHybrid]

Sure.

Night 1, I targeted AGar. This is my first non-Newbie game where I didn't play a VT, so I wasn't quite sure how to use the role, and I targeted someone I found suspicious. However, no one targeted AGar, and from the way the mod worded the results, I knew I should start looking at people I thought would be targeted.

Night 2, I targeted Parama. Maemuki visited him that night.

Night 3, I watched Bub. No one visited him.

Quick ISO. Apparently you did and I missed it.

[DemonHybrid]

This is going to sound crazy, but after reading more closely into your reaction and your watch results, I find them genuine.

In that case, I'm going to bet on this being LyLo, and that we'd have to be so extremely careful. 3 mafia and a traitor seems oddly balanced against two watchers and a JKer (a role that can cause just as much harm as good).

I also have my eye on the ones that wanted to lynch Sundy just because of his claim instead of taking the time to analyze the motivation behind claiming a role that has already been flipped.

In fact...

Pseudovote goes on AGar.

Vote: Sundy

Still not comfortable with DH, but I can't get anything more than uber-bus/chaining lynches and the NK analysis, which isn't enough here.

Sundy, you're now at L-1. Enjoy, scumbag.

This came out of NOWHERE, and you have contributed nothing to a case on him other than "2ND WATCHER WTF LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!!!!"

So, in light of that, I retract my Sundy read, and I will gladly lynch AGar, but only after people are ready to lynch and we've exhausted all possible information from this day.

[DemonHybrid]

Votecount analysis time.

Akira

(7) - DemonHybrid,

Parama

, AGar,

[winger]

,

TwistedSpoon

, Sundy, crazypianist1116

Cecily

(1) -

Riceballtail

Not Voting (5) -

Maemuki

,

Oso

,

Akira

, Bud Bidderskins,

Cecily

^ Akira lynch wagon

Cecily

(6) - crazypianist1116,

Parama

, DemonHybrid,

Maemuki

,

TwistedSpoon

, Bub Bidderskins,

Not Voting (5) -

Oso

,

Cecily

, AGar, Sundy,

Riceballtail

^ Cecily lynch wagon

Oso

(3) -

Parama

, Bub Bidderskins, AGar
Sundy (1) -

Riceballtail

Not Voting (5) -

Oso

, DemonHybrid, Sundy, crazypianist1116,

TwistedSpoon

^ Oso's L-1

Riceballtail

(5) - AGar,

Parama

, DemonHybrid, crazypianist1116,

TwistedSpoon

Bub Bidderskins (1) -

Oso

TwistedSpoon

(1) - Sundy
AGar (1) -

Riceballtail

Oso

(1) - Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (0) - No one

^ RBT's lynch wagon

Oso

(4) - Sundy, Bub Bidderskins,

TwistedSpoon

, crazypianist1116
Sundy (3) - DemonHybrid,

Oso

, AGar



^ Oso's lynchwagon. Tied vote was 3 vs 3 with CP off the wagon until the hammer.

As for my suspicion on AGar...

TS buddying noted.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Akira

Why do you find these people before me Matt?

This was the vote when he switched to Akira. Only interaction before this was a response to Akira's question.


Day 2: He doesn't vote Cecily or mention him.

Day 3: All mentioning of Cecily was with the "DH is chaining lynches" theory and nothing else. In fact, AGar said nothing about Cecily Day 1, except for this post:

Twisted is almost assuredly town.

Explain pl0x. I'm intrigued by this particular read.

Cecily-scum is trying to start a counterwagon on Twisted.

Interesting.
Tech explanation.
I grok.

I've been hanging out with Thor too much...

Which kind of contradicts the "Hey, he was definitely town and you were chaining lynches" opinion he had...



This is his Oso vote:

Let me rephrase it:

For example: Parama and I did the same thing. Why isn't he suspect to you as well, AGar? Your reasoning is ludacris if you are voting me just for that, so please look at the people late wagoning Akira and voting Cecily without voting Akira, in this case, Bub.

Is that better?

Parama didn't latch onto a refusal to vote on D1. He may have guaranteed a scum-flip on Cecily, but he didn't insinuate that come hell or high water he was going to be voting Cecily. You did. THAT is the key point here.

The deflection onto Parama, I get what it is. It's a tactic to clear yourself, not throw suspicion onto Parama. Instead you're just making yourself look worse.

Just go easily.

So, you are voting me over word choice and not action nor intent?

AGar, you're a much better player than this.

The word choice belies the intent.

Buuuuut.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oso

365 was "ohshitImcaught" in many many more cleverly crafted wrods.

Up to this point, he hasn't mentioned Oso. He was third on the wagon.



But then when I point out RBT's lurkiness...

VOTE: Riceballtail

Pretty much textbook lurker-scum. Latest post projecting about the TS wagon was one of the scummiest posts I've seen in a long time.

Out of nowhere. This is coming off of his TS wagon, which he was late on. 4th, to be exact.



Then, his vote for Sundy. Again, 3rd on the wagon.

VOTE: Sundy

Still not comfortable with DH, but I can't get anything more than uber-bus/chaining lynches and the NK analysis, which isn't enough here.

Sundy, you're now at L-1. Enjoy, scumbag.

Mentioned this in the last post. Now he's trying to lynch him based only on his claim.


I'm going to vote. This game is stagnating and this should be more than enough evidence to support my suspicion.

Vote: AGar

[DemonHybrid]

Re: Cecily - I never said Cecily was a bad lynch. This is a straight up misrepresentation.

Just would like to comment on this; you didn't say it, but you implied it.

Even if that were the case, since you barely said anything about Cecily, how could anyone have known that you had an opinion on Cecily's wagon? You barely said anything about everyone wagoned until the wagon was full speed ahead or the lynch already went through; there's no denying that.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, AGar, I would like a list of town motivation and scum motivation for claiming Town Watcher after a Town Watcher had already flipped.

[DemonHybrid]

I was talking about Day 1 and Day 3. I know very well you had no time to post Day 2.

[DemonHybrid]

Then what was with the opposition? The lynch was a no brainer for D2, its weird that you complained about it and its kind of arbitrary when you picked on me for it.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm pretty sure I explained my Parama comparison ages ago.

[DemonHybrid]

I explained specifically why it was an example and not a deflection.

[DemonHybrid]

My explanation is that I could have picked anyone who lynched Akira and then lynched Cecily and they would have applied to your reasoning. I picked Parama because he seemed so damn town to you to make a point.

Also, it's easy for someone to just state that my logic was weak, but it seems kinda contradictory after you JUST stated that my logic was okay a few posts ago.

[DemonHybrid]

But you completely disregard my point; you had no case to begin with since I was in the same boat as those players you found completely town.

Regardless, do you have a case other than "DH has a case on me and he said this to debunk my argument"? What else have I done that's scummy to you?

[DemonHybrid]

CP needs to post thoughts. Now.

[DemonHybrid]

But you completely disregard my point; you had no case to begin with since I was in the same boat as those players you found completely town.

It must be nice to over-simplify things

Because things are a lot more simple than you're putting them.

In other news, CP is your buddy, and that's good to know.

Funny, you never did point out RBT's lurkiness, at least before his vote.

I was the FIRST to point out her lurkiness.

Hmm.

RBT, can I get thoughts from you on every player still alive so far?

Implies that RBT is lurking.

VOTE: Riceballtail

Pretty much textbook lurker-scum. Latest post projecting about the TS wagon was one of the scummiest posts I've seen in a long time.

AGar picking up on it and immediately voting after I mention her.

....hmm.

I want my answers from RBT before I think about voting.

Funny how two votes and three active lurking claims come right after I ask her for her opinions.

And I even note this.

AGar and CP, your cases are garbage.

[DemonHybrid]

Just for the record, both of you have said, near endgame stage, that "These are gut votes" and have given EXTREMELY limited reasoning in a case against me, while I have pointed out every flip-flop and wagon change of AGars, and will do the same for CP when I have time.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, I wonder why you two are following "gut" reads instead of voting the "OH MY GOD TOTALLY SCUMMY SUNDY 2ND WATCHER CUZ

oOoOoOoOoO wAtChEr ClAiM!~~

"

Doesn't make sense.

Provided Bub and Sundy don't come out of nowhere and hammer me, Sundy's claim is true, it's a very probable 2 scum LyLo, and you two are it. CP just royally screwed both of you because I was actually trying to figure out who the other one was between Bub and CP, assuming it is 2 scum LyLo. CP made it easy.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm very comfortable with an AGar lynch.

Bub, can you post, please?

[DemonHybrid]

I suppose there's no harm in lynching someone who is going to flip scum anyway.

Unvote, Vote: crazypianist1116

AGar lynch next.

[DemonHybrid]

Since it's customary to claim at L-1, I'm a Vanilla Townie. Figured I might as well say that while people are mentioning claims, though I'm sure that was expected at this point.

[DemonHybrid]

Day 2: Was only 3.5 hours long.

Once again, I didn't say anything about Day 2.

This quote came from before the incident where TS was thought to be lynched but really put at L-1. AGar then states on Day 3:

He was talking about Cecily.

To which I point to Rule #1

Which you didn't read.

“Well, then, where is the most likely place for scum? At the start of the wagon? ” Nope. It’s in the middle.

No it doesn't.

Me asking RBT for reads after a "Hmm" doesn't strike you as me saying "RBT, you're lurking. Give us more reads please"?

I said no such thing. AGar said no such thing.

Oh, right. You said your gut was towards AGar but your brain was towards me. I retract that, but the fact that AGar had included "this is gut ALSO" means that...it's gut. Partly, at least. Yes, even with the also.

I believe it was you who gave no reason for switching your Sundy read.

I gave plenty of reason on why I switched my Sundy read. I posted four times in a row last page, one of them was specifically on why my Sundy read changed. Might want to read them.


Your vote is opportunistic because you're riding a case instead of going with the obvious Sundy lynch. If you really think that two watchers is impossible (which, I don't see why ANY sane scum would have claimed a 2nd watcher after the 1st died), then why aren't you voting him?

That's right; because AGar made a case.

So, you're about 1 for 15. I take back that I said you voted on gut, but your case looks so made up and nongenuine that I had mixed the two.

[DemonHybrid]

When something's in your vote post, I take it to mean you're using it as evidence against the person you're voting for.

Yeah, but that wasn't a main point of mine. I posted that to keep a tab on what happened Day 2, but I never said that that was something I found him scummy for. I sort of wrote along as I went, and some things I thought were ultra scummy, some things were only just worthy to note, and those were one of those things. But my main point has nothing to do with his Day 2 actions.

You could have asked that question of anybody. It's not going to ring any bells unless one goes back into the thread and sees her patterns.

So, you see me turn around to someone who hasn't said a word and ask that. How does that not imply lurking?

The fact that AGar outright said "RBT ur lurkin" before I got a chance to put those exact words in writing doesn't mean that I didn't mean it in the first place.

There's a big difference between "These are gut votes" and "I have a case on you and my gut concurs."

The case from AGar is awful, and so was yours. So..it's mainly just gut. AGar's only saying "You said this about Parama...and er.....yeah, scummy cause this case. Plus gut" which really means "I only have a gut reason for voting you". With you, it was just a mistake, which I have noted.

You explained why two watchers was possible. You however did not vote Sundy because you thought a second watcher contradicted the first. Surprisingly enough, you really didn't have good reasons for voting Sundy:

Because coming off of the RBT lynch, I really was at a loss for leads and I thought he was the best bet.

Posted after my Sundy vote:

On the one hand I'm not sure DH's reasons on sundy hold much water. Basing your two townie reads off of past games seems slightly weak to me. It's evidence which we can't challenge

On the other hand It's hard to accuse DH of anything since he started the akira wagon (although that being said it was Parama, the mafia traitor, who found the scumslip) :/

I'll have to look elsewhere for now =|

It's the best I have on anyone at the moment.

And it was. Sitting around not voting and not looking for information isn't going to do anything.

I never said that.

Sundy's vote on D4 I saw this as a valid explanation:

As for my "WTF 2nd WATCHER LYNCH LYNCH" coming out of "nowhere" - I missed the end of D4. Again, this game has been flying at a quicker rate than most games where certain events happen in a matter of hours rather than over the course of a few days. So when I saw a second watcher claim, my first thought was "Yeah, we lynched that jackass." Instead we lynched Oso. That was probably the second-dumbest town play I've seen.

[DemonHybrid]

To clarify on my "Day 2 he didn't do this" post, I was doing a vote analysis. When AGar pointed out that he had no time to do anything Day 2, I concurred. That wasn't really my main point anyway...my main point is that he wagonhopped like a beast and is trying to lynch someone opposed to him instead of trying to convince them of the obvious lynch to him, which would be the 2nd watcher Sundy lynch. The fact that you two are NOT voting Sundy is a clear indication that you're trying to get by on a makeshift case, and there's no genuineness by laying off the vote for Sundy.

Sundy can drop the hammer now, lest we start beating a dead horse. If you really are a Watcher, which I believe you are, you should know that there is a very good chance that there are 2 scum left, and if you believe my case, you know that Bub didn't hammer and is not scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Omw to class, so I can't refute much else. I'm definitely town too, so I'm betting on an act by Pianist till the death, otherwise....Sundy lied in a 1 scum LyLo? I just can't see that.

I know for a fact that if its a 2 scum LyLo, AGar and Pianist is it. If the others were scum, Id have been dead by now.

[DemonHybrid]

*1 scum nonLyLo

I hate posting on this thing.

[DemonHybrid]

Then the two watchers wouldn't make sense.

I'm going to wait until the flip to even try to fathom this.

Pedit sundy: Hopefully. I don't think you'd make a move that backwards. People fake claim till the flip all the time.

[DemonHybrid]

NO ONE VOTE.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm heavily leaning AGar. Doing a visual VCA of Bub shows wildly thrown around votes; yours were much more collected. I can go into details if possible, but I just wanted you two to know my thoughts.

For the record, I've never been in a 3 man LyLo before. It fucking sucks.

[DemonHybrid]

Votecount analysis time.

Akira

(7) - DemonHybrid,

Parama

, AGar,

[winger]

,

TwistedSpoon

,

Sundy

,

crazypianist1116

Cecily

(1) -

Riceballtail

Not Voting (5) -

Maemuki

,

Oso

,

Akira

, Bud Bidderskins,

Cecily

^ Akira lynch wagon

Cecily

(6) -

crazypianist1116

,

Parama

, DemonHybrid,

Maemuki

,

TwistedSpoon

, Bub Bidderskins,

Not Voting (5) -

Oso

,

Cecily

, AGar,

Sundy

,

Riceballtail

^ Cecily lynch wagon

Oso

(3) -

Parama

, Bub Bidderskins, AGar

Sundy

(1) -

Riceballtail

Not Voting (5) -

Oso

, DemonHybrid,

Sundy

,

crazypianist1116

,

TwistedSpoon

^ Oso's L-1

Riceballtail

(5) - AGar,

Parama

, DemonHybrid,

crazypianist1116

,

TwistedSpoon

Bub Bidderskins (1) -

Oso

TwistedSpoon

(1) -

Sundy

AGar (1) -

Riceballtail

Oso

(1) - Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (0) - No one

^ RBT's lynch wagon

Oso

(4) -

Sundy

, Bub Bidderskins,

TwistedSpoon

,

crazypianist1116

Sundy (3) - DemonHybrid,

Oso

, AGar



^ Oso's lynchwagon. Tied vote was 3 vs 3 with CP off the wagon until the hammer.

crazypianist1116 (3) - Bub Bidderskins, DemonHybrid,

Sundy

DemonHybrid (2) - AGar,

crazypianist1116

^CP's lynchwagon.

Oso may have been an all town lynch.

Hmm.

[DemonHybrid]

Oops, CP needs to be green on his lynchwagon; my bad.

[DemonHybrid]

One thing that really is playing on my mind here is the fact that Bub switched the wagon to CP over AGar. If we hypothesize that Bub is the last one, Bub doesn't seem like the type of scum to put forth that great an effort to

1. Kill the less experienced player
2. Keep the more experienced player

Unless he wanted AGar to expand on his suspicions of me, but AGar's suspicions of me seem completely baseless. AGar leaving the Sundy wagon was pretty scummy of him...until CP did it and flipped town.

Fuck.

[DemonHybrid]

Forgive me if I make the wrong move.

Vote: AGar

If I'm wrong about this, I'm going to stop playing mafia for a little while. I'm voting now because I don't want useless speculation behind last night's kill to skew the information I already have.

Bub, I want you to check in, now, and hopefully not with a quickvote.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, hear this out for the very least and then make your decision.

Unvote

Okay.

[DemonHybrid]

And yes, I thought about Bub not being on Akira, but being on Cecily, but his reasoning for not being on the Akira wagon...actually seems kind of genuine. He didn't want to be too hasty.

His cases have been pretty amazing even IF they were for the wrong people. Read his back and forth between Oso and Bub and tell me that that's not legitimate scumhunting.

Your wagonhopping has been so hard and blatant that it's so hard for me to look past that; that's 99% of the reason why I was voting for you. Other than Cecily (in which you've said you had no time to post, which I agree with) and CP (Which..hell, I don't know what that was about, especially with the switching from Sundy to me), you have been on EVERY major wagon and almost all of them for weak reasons.

Bub has the Akira/Cecily mixup against him and maybe another wagon hop (CP, but that was also good reasoning). Was he tunneling on Oso? That's for you to try to convince me.

So, if you want a chance to explain everything and post a good case on Bub and show me that you're right about him being the last one, then you got it. But I want Bub to explain himself, too. So...

I am going to a presentation, dinner and then going to finish homework. By around 10 PM EDT tonight, I want both of you to post the best case you got against each other.

IMPORTANT: I don't want your claims. I don't want your N5 Kill speculation. I want D1-D5 analysis on vote play and language analysis. I'll make a decision then. Bring your a-games.

That's all.

[DemonHybrid]

As a PS: I'm going to be completely unbiased and read over EVERYTHING before I decide, after you make your cases. I'm reading EVERY single page.

[DemonHybrid]

If I'm a valid suspect to you, Bub, fair enough. Ill include a case for and against both of you, weigh the options, and we can make a decision out of the three of us.

In response, my CP wagon switch was with a 2 scum LyLo in mind after both CP and AGar had a vote on me. I assumed it was 2 scum LyLo, so the lynch didn't matter at the time because neither of you hammered me. As long as it wasn't you or Sundy, I was alright with it.

[DemonHybrid]

Neither of you meaning neither you nor Sundy. I'm on my phone.

[DemonHybrid]

Damn, this game.

Have you guys come up with anything? Thoughts, cases, anything?

[DemonHybrid]

@DH: Why did you say that "there is definite scum on both Oso's and TS's wagons" when you yourself were on TS's wagon earlier that day?

Can scum not be on the same wagon that town is?

Just because I said there was probable scum on both wagons and I was on one of them, that doesn't mean everyone on the wagons is scum. I would hope that didn't need to be explained.

Also, it seems your main focus is on me being on the Cecily wagon, saying that I would vote Cecily no matter what.

1. First off, your whole point about me seeing Parama as town has no merit. Tell me one person who saw Parama as scum at that point in time.
2. Second off, my point is that (and once again, I had hoped that this didn't need to be explained) it was normal townie behavior to suspect the person naturally defending the scum after a slip. I equated my play to Parama's (at the time, who I, and everyone else, thought was extremely town) as an

example

to show that AGar's argument had no merit. And it doesn't.

Here's Cecily's lynch wagon.

Cecily (6) - crazypianist1116, Parama, DemonHybrid, Maemuki, TwistedSpoon, Bub Bidderskins,

Not Voting (5) - Oso, Cecily, AGar, Sundy, Riceballtail

^ Cecily lynch wagon

All three of us (Parama, you, and I) were on the wagon, and I'm definitely sure that if AGar was on to post, he would have been, too. So I don't understand the tendency to single me out just because I stressed the fact that I was going to commit an action that was obviously the right move at the time and to basically be honest to everyone. Cecily was the obvious lynch if Akira flipped scum at the time. That is normal logical cognitive processing, and I wasn't the only one who saw it.

tl;dr:

My Parama comparison was just an EXAMPLE.
Townies and scum alike were on the Cecily wagon. You were, too, and I'm sure AGar would have been if he had time (AGar, I'd like you to clarify this, as this is just an assumption; you never gave your PERSONAL thoughts on the wagon before or after it and whether you would have liked to been on it at the time)
My choice in language, in order to be honest, really has nothing to do with the intent; the intent was the same as every other townie on the wagon.

[DemonHybrid]

Yes, they can be, but that isn't the issue, the issue is the hypocracy. You criticized a wagon which you had just been on.

There's no hypocrisy. I know and have always known that I was on the wagon. That wasn't my point; My point was that there might have been scum on both wagons -not including- me, and again, I would have hoped that would have been obvious.

I understand that it was an example, that wasn't my issue with your defense from AGar. My issue was that you never actually explained why you voted for Cecily like you just did now. The whole of your response to AGar was devoted to asking him why he didn't go after Parama who did the same thing. Your response comes off as evasive and defensive.

...which was an example. Which -reinforces- my reasoning, as the reasoning was already explained by everyone else. Me, crazy, you, Twisted, Mae, and everyone else who wanted to be on Cecily's wagon but didn't have time to ALL had the same reasoning. It was obvious.

[DemonHybrid]

More with the gut?

Alex, if you're town and you fucking hand this away on a fucking gut read, I'm going to be slightly angry.

Whatever happened to "Bub is scummy, hear me out"? Where's your goddamn case?

[DemonHybrid]

More importantly, why did you switch as soon as Bub turns and says that, to him, my play seemed slightly scummy? Seriously, it's like you abandoned this "Bub is scummy" crap as soon as he questioned me.

For the record, I see three options coming out of this.

1. You unvote and we can continue to make cases and analyze this further
2. Bub quickvotes me
3. Bub doesn't quickvote me, I vote you and he chooses between us two

I give you all the freedom and power in the world to choose #1.

[DemonHybrid]

Very well.

Vote: AGar

You should NOT be basing a LyLo vote on a gut read at this point in the game, and if your only points against Bub were to save your own ass (seeing as how you admit it's weak), I don't find it genuine.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

Are you crazy?

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not really buying the whole "inner turmoil" thing.

I'd like Bub to check in.

[DemonHybrid]

Bub, how long are you going to be around?

[DemonHybrid]

I want to try something and I want to know if I can trust you or not. I may be throwing the game away (I really hope I'm not ._.), but I'm pretty certain of this:

Vote: AGar

Please post.

[DemonHybrid]

For the record, I don't trust AGar's wishy washy vote patterns. I don't trust his theatrical inner turmoil of today and I don't trust his frustration. You've had consistent solid logic and I want to know, now or never, whether you're town or not.

[DemonHybrid]

-_-

Fuck...

[DemonHybrid]

I apologize to town for fucking up.

Good game.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm so sorry to disappoint you, DemonHybrid.

You played well, sir.

[DemonHybrid]

To be honest, it was more AGar freaking out and doing so many impulsive things near the end than Bub's good play, but it was still good play nonetheless and I had a really hard time seeing you as scum. I thought your suspicion of me was honest and it just totally went downhill.

[DemonHybrid]

Regardless, I blame myself (and encourage all of you to blame me) for the loss.

I'll ask the obvious question:

It seems so town sided, how come? Kind of threw me for a loop. 2 watchers and a JK vs 2 mafia and a traitor?

[DemonHybrid]

In other news, this is how I feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8uPYulh05I#t=4m05s

[DemonHybrid]

Parama was a watcher too. Don't want to take all of Enigma's thunder here but I think the many watchers was for some counter-claim lulz.

Was he?

Interesting, but makes a lot of sense.

[DemonHybrid]

GG guys. Sorry for tunneling you DH.

Don't be sorry, I played terribad, I felt.