First, there's some questions from like a week ago that I completely missed.
Regfan wrote:@ Krazy, you recently seem to have dropped your vote and suspicion for Ythan, does that mean you currently think he's town?
Ythan has been upgraded to null-tell in my book.
Regfan wrote:
Krazy: The funny thing about a vote that looks like it is an attempt to make it seem like you're not tunneling and a vote that means you're not tunneling is that there is no difference.
@ Krazy, you seem to be of the opinion that Yoshi is/was tunnelling on you, can you point out what posts he did so?
In this post I was actually responding to DY's claim that I was tunneling on Ythan. I was not characterizing DY as tunneling on me here.
Umbrage wrote:
All this just proves my point: you did not fine my VOTE on CS to be scummy. You saw someone make a SERIOUS vote in RVS and thought: "Hey, that would make an excellent wagon!" Now, you JUST SAID that you did not wagon me to get out of RVS. You ALSO said that you did NOT find me scummy at that time! Which means that there is NO excusable motive for wagoning me. NONE. Either you were watching out for your buddies ConSpiracy and xtoxm, or you were looking for a good wagon. EITHER WAY YOU ARE SCUM. EITHER WAY YOU NEED TO DIE.
Umbrage, like several other players, I have a VERY SLIGHT townread on you, but posts like this are seriously bothering me. Again and again you make a not-totally-empty but still weak as hell case against someone and then say YOU NEED TO DIE! It's like, even if I sort of agree with you, the cases you've been making just aren't really all that damning.
Vordark wrote:This xtoxm wagon advanced much faster than I'd expect a wagon on anything but obvscum to go. Coupled with the lurking town vibe I'm getting off him, I'm inclined to believe scum are pushing it. Lurker = easy target, easy vote. And five votes for a lurker when there are more suspicious players is a joke.
CS's posts, in particular his replies to mine regarding DathYoshi, are
serious
chainsaws and pushing an easy wagon. For example, in CS's long post (#299), he offers a chainsaw of Umbrage against myself, SE and Ythan, he offers a chainsaw of DY against me, then finally pushes a vote of xtoxm based on lurking and, wait for it,
another
chainsaw for DY.
I'm calling DarthYoshi, ConSpiracy and Umbrage scum, in order of relative certainty. I think there's an outside chance Umbrage is just tunneling town, but either way I think he deserves a vig shot tonight when DY flips scum.
The first sentence here bothers me... first, how fast, really, was the wagon on Xto? Second, why wouldn't it be that fast after some of the ridiculous posts he's been making? I mean, have you been reading them? For real?
The other thing here is that, I am going to go on a limb and say that I do not believe based on posts like this that Vordark and DarthYoshi are both scum together. They can both be town, or one can be scum, but if one is scum, they are not of the same faction. This will be important later.
__
Now I would just like to make an observation. AbelCain and Vordark never talk *to* each other. Seriously, read their isos, there's like one point where they make one very courteous response to each other and that's it. Neither really characterizes their reads on each other (except briefly in V's massive early wall-post of the entire early-game), neither has put either player up in relation to other players, etc. For two players that have been so relatively active, this actually bothers me quite a bit. I feel like, looking at either player, they talk to every other active player at some length, except each other.
So let's pretend that AC and V are scumbuddies. They are smartly putting themselves on different wagons today. So then the question becomes, is either one bussing an ally? As I mentioned above, I am very skeptical of the idea that V is bussing DarthYoshi. That combined with my faint-town-leaning-null-read on Yoshi has me thinking that's certainly not a bus. (That being said, iamausername did make a fairly decent case here to characterize DY as active lurking/poor scumhunting, etc. But I feel like a lot of it rested on the "DY being self-conscious about appearing townish" which, although I can see where he's coming from, seemed a touch blown out of proportion).
Abelcain bussing Xtoxm is certainly a possibility, especially with the way that Xtoxm has been playing. If I was scum I would bus fast and bus hard, UNLESS my scumbuddy was also bussing hard and fast, in which case I'd try to appear skeptical. That being said, I'm hesitant to believe that either is necessarily bussing an ally on d1.
So I'm trying to think who else would make possible scumbuddy:
There are two players I would instantly eliminate from a AC/V scumteam, and two players who coincidentally I am also leaning town on:
Umbrage - Would be leaning town, but null-tell because of his "[weak point] - THEREFORE YOU MUST DIE" posts.
ConSpiracy - Nullish but leaning town.
Another player I am leaning town on but would not eliminate from a AC/V scumteam is: iamausername.
That leaves four players that I have relatively weak reads on (continuing with the above observations and continuing the thought experiment of an AC/V scumteam) for non-bussing possibilities:
Regfan - Null, for now. Too new for a clear sense, but listed AbelCain as a scumread. That's something at least, so seeing this as the least likely of the four of my current nulls.
Quaroath - I don't like this one, largely because of Q's posts, a lot of them are in direct response to V. Could fit with an AC scumteam (for much of the same reasons I'm currently positing the AC/V scumteam), but would be less happy with an AC/V/Q scumteam.
Ythan - Null, for now. This is not the Ythan I know from last game, and that is making it very difficult to read him (in addition to his sort of dip in activity). Could fit with an AC/V scumteam, (or an AC/Q scumteam). Has never interacted with Vordark, Abelcain, or Quaroth. Fits, but there are several other players Ythan hasn't really interacted with either so this could easily be coincidence.
Snake Eyes - Nullish. Has interacted with Q in such a way that would slightly push him away from a scumteam with him. Almost fits too well with a Vordark/Abelcain team, since that would mean the scum presented a united front.
So AC/V/Q, AC/V/Q, or AC/V/SE all work in this current thought experiment. As does, additionally, AC/V/Xto (with bus).
I'm aware that the problem with the current train of thought is that AC, V, and SE have all seemed so "sane" in comparison to Umbrage, and so that they might have had a bit less of an impetus to prod each other. Still, even though Umbrage has continued to present his "epic cases" and people who were on the original anti-Umbrage wagon have continued to bite off at it, to the point that I sometimes wonder if they aren't persisting in it simply to make themselves look better in comparison to Umbrage's hysterical antics.
I definitely want to address the relationship (or non-relationship) between these players before nightfall. I will vote
Vordark
right now since some of his posts have bothered me marginally more than AC's, Q's, or SE's.