New Designer Mafia (Victor(s) are crowned)

[ThAdmiral]

Sup guys.

I'll catch up and then say stuff.

[ThAdmiral]

Up to page 10, will continue later.

Notes so far:

I propose we all claim our submitted roles as discussed in the Queue. Discuss.

Also, I will not fullclaim submitted roles just yet, but I've already given a hint.

Wait, so you suggested everyone else to claim, but didn't want to do it yourself?
I know you attempted to explain this hypocrisy by saying:

I'd like a concensus first. You guys went ahead and posted, fine, I wanna be sure nobody says NO DON'T WAIT MY ROLE SAYS IF WE DO THAT I DIE

But that doesn't cut it. You wanted everyone else to give you information but you weren't prepared to give information yourself? That sounds way more like a scum move than a town move.

Scum are the only ones that benefit from this. It creates chaos and uncertainty. Youre not being clever here, all youre doing is playing into the scum's game.

This is an overreaction, but I do agree that doing all the role compilation stuff is a good way to look helpful when not actually hunting scum at all.

Anyway, returning to the Xalxe vote. He's being active and "helpful" but not in a way designed to catch scum. For this reason, he is my primary suspect.

Yeah, this basically.

Feel bad for chess and cooldog.

Lots of people are voting without reasoning. Not helpful. You are just going to be asked to explain your votes later anyway, so why not just save us all some time.

Olinea has said he can prove he is not a detonator. Better be able to because he looks

extremely

suspicious right now.

Lol Furc is so funny.

Olinea is very very likely SCUM and not because the detonator stupid stuff which is PRETTY OBVIOUS she is not, its becuase she is full of scumtells. Im not liking his justification for random voting in post 5, his sheeping to the claiming strategy in post 7, and more importantly she is freaking scared of Demon Hybrid, like too worried of being caught. Assuming Olineatown, I dont know where she got the conclusion that DH was tunneling townie instead of considering him as a scumbag trying to get advantage of her, which is the normal townie reasoning. This strongly suggest Olineascum.

Nice bit of analysis.

Olinea proved his power. Probably isn't detonator but is not cleared of being scum.

Im not going to let Olinea confuse things on me. Olinea detonated, Chesskid blew up. Im not going to let the fear, uncertainty and doubt of this chaos dissuade me. The fact is a fact.

Yea, the vote count is screwy, but in a game like this, this is expected.

Somehow I think one of Olinea's quiet partners is secretly screwing with us trying to save Olinea.

I for one, im not falling for these shenanigans.

Bolding mine. It could be useful to have people claim if they submitted a role that could possibly do this.
Did anyone?

[ThAdmiral]

Up to page 13:
I didn't mention this before but pictures and videos?! How interesting. @ zoraster: are you just doing it for fun?

People are saying that the detonator might be town, but I doubt it. It's looking more and more like olinea was being set up, which would not seem like a town-motivated move.

@ post 245: omg there is totally faint writing on the paper were the pen has pressed in from above. I believe it says: "I'm soooo scum in this game!!!!". I think I've caught scum, wat does everyone else think?

Furc is in every game I play these days. We are getting to be able to read each others meta pretty well. I think he is town in this game.

A vig should kill Furcolow.

Why?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: zoraster

Zoraster knows that not everyone can use youtube to be able to watch it, this makes it a different improved, some might say, version of lurking. There is also too many "ehrmm's" and "err's" in his point to actually believe any of this he needs to get telling the truth as an ehrmm is definitely a sign of lying and ever heard of LaL? I have.

You're seriously voting him for this? If you think he is trying to fly under the radar get him to do a transcript of the video or do a transcript yourself.

I have a question in general as well: would submitted roles be altered at all by the mods?
I would say yes, as we've already seen that one of the roles was altered to be a lover as well. This is mainly to Internet Stranger who is saying that because olinea said "detonate" and someone blew up, according to the claimed role the detonator must have been olinea. This is understandable, and I see that IS quoted occams razor, which is admirable.

However

if the role was changed to allow for detonation via pm it could have been anyone. And since roles can clearly be altered this possibility must be considered.

Edit: just read that mods can indeed alter roles. Well there you go.

ok, ender is town.

Why? He is actually playing a lot like me as town. Making weak cases against people and then backing off immediately when he gets called on it.

[ThAdmiral]

Up to page 18:
(god there is a lot of content, this is taking way longer than I expected it to)

The fact olinea posted "detonate", and then two people died, considering Olinea posted that they sent in some sort of lover role... That's why I've asked if anyone sent anything like that, because otherwise Olinea's scumteam detonated and loverized them from my perspective. It's just the only sense I can make out of it.

That's assuming they were both day abilities, and could be activated by pm. In which case a terrible move from scum, as if you wouldn't wait until lylo-1, use it and then win the game?
Basically I think you are wrong.

I like the theory of there being a mafia matchmaker but we know that olinea's role is not this matchmaker or the detonator for that matter. We need to reevaluate why we believe him to be scum.

Why is there a "we" in this? Your ISO reveals no prior suspicion of me.

Is this the question you speak of? I consider myself part of the town. We=town. Most of the town seems to think you are scum so I used "we". Was this really a legit question?

Completely legit. The "we" in this case refers to people who were suspicious of me. You were not.

Your answer prompts an obvious follow-up question.

How do you know the people pushing my lynch were Town, and not scum looking for an easy wagon?

Yeah this was weird and a good pick up from Olinea.

@mod: Is it possible that some roles were altered in their mechanics? Purely hypothetically, could an action triggered by bolding in the thread have been switched to triggering by PM, or vice-versa?

~There were no altered mechanics. Only alterations were asthetic.

Ooh. This changes things. The bomb must have been set off by a "detonate" in a post in this case. Unless someone else submitted a role that caused someone to explode.
@ Everyone: did anyone send in a role that caused someone to explode?

I don't know why I haven't asked this earlier, but

Did anyone send in a role that functions as a Daykill when you PM it to the Mod?

Olinea asks the same question.

Alright time to confess, i am a town Post Bomber, my ability was to choose a post number and bomb it. I thought that really i wasn't going to be able to predict who is going to post on a certain number so i did it randomly thinking i'd get lucky but instead i killed 2 people with it sorry guys feel free to lynch me, rather me with absolutely 0 abilities available than Olinea or someone.

Aha. Well that explains a lot.

I'm not assuming ender is town. Why would a town want us to lynch a town member instead of continuing to scumhunt? Implies explicit knowledge that Olinea is town.

I disagree. Given that pretty much the only reason olinea is being voted is because of the detonator stuff it is reasonable of ender to argue that we shouldn't be lynching him.
I think it is a town tell of ender to have claimed. He even breadcrumbed in one of his earlier posts where he said:

I think your pushing a bit too hard on Olinea, chances are there are other power roles that involve bombs.

If he was scum he could have used the situation to frame olinea and jumped on his wagon, but he didn't.

I don't know about Furc. (1)
On the one hand, he's scummy. (2)
On the other, he's ALWAYS scummy, regardless of alignment. (3)
What I mean is I think he's fitting his town meta so far. (4)

four different opinions in four lines about someone who is obvscum. scumpartner number one found.

I think you're trying too hard.

Xalxe does a huge post after being absent for a while. Asks a lot of questions. Feels forced - he wants it to seem like he is doing a lot, but most of the questions are just "list your scumspects".

My last game before this, Rivertown Mafia, I was a Gunsmith who had managed to survive to 5p LyLo. Player list was:

ortiz1193
Furcolow
Olinea
Baby Spice
Fugitive

I had "no gun" results on Baby Spice and Fugitive, so I was ready to peg ortiz as scum since he pulled an

insanely

scummy hammer the day before. Furcolow had stayed in my Town books for a good 2/3 of the game and I didn't think he was overtly scummy so I was skeptical about my results. I waited on my vote, but Furcolow, after seeing that I had innos on Baby Spice and Fugitive, panicked. He was a VT and thought I was fakeclaiming an investigative PR during LyLo to get him lynched (which was a fair assumption, Gunsmith isn't a role that you'd expect to be CC'ed) and immediately voted for me. I was a bit nonchalant about the vote, believing him to be scum and therefore not leading into a quickhammer, but ortiz1193 and Fugitive (Godfather) organized a quickhammer on me and both Furcolow and I lost -- him due to his zealousness, and me due to my ignorance of how carefully people need to vote in LyLo.

Yeah that was awesome. I was on the scum team and had been killed a few days earlier. Still got lots of love for ortiz and fugi for that play.

[ThAdmiral]

Notes from page 18 onwards.

I can't quote which sucks since the thread is locked. I'm writing this down on notepad as I'm reading. I avoided doing that night 1 as I figured I would be able to get on day 2 and finish my catch up... but then day 2 ended abruptly.

Anyway here are my thoughts:


Olinea makes a good point about tajo. In fact town points to tajo - could have left olinea to be lynched but didn't.

@ plum: I don't think you ever explained why you chose chess and cooldog? Any particular reasons?

top of page 19 nocmen does some weird floundering regarding onlinea. It is post 450, and here is the text:
"It's not so much that I wanted to clear him. It's slightly more weird now that we know who claimed the kill, which I mainly believed Olinea to not have killed. I was making a stupid connection of basically saying since Olinea didn't kill, then they must be town. And as I look back at that now, I realize just how silly I am for that, making me need to reread Olinea's case."

furc 457 brings up yet another good point against xalxe, i.e. that his reads are fabricated.

tasky 458 is serious about the olinea case. He asks people to either vote olinea or refute each point, which is pretty overbearing. Without addressing each point I'll just say that I don't agree with you on everything and I don't believe all the signs point to olinea-as-scum, although clearly you do.

broscraps 460 is good logic. Scum-loverizer is unlikely, and choosing chess and cooldog as scum is even less likely. Plum = probtown, and broscraps gets townpoints for pointing this out.

Tasky seems too sure of himself about olinea. So sure it is suspicious. Conspiracy theory: could he be hard bussing olinea? It would make sense to go this hard against olinea if they were scum-partners. Olinea doesn't seem to be in much danger of a lynch so all this does is heavily distance them.

xalxe 494 says the exact opposite and states "they can't both be scum".

ender 495 and 499 - wtf?

amrum 517 still going on about ender as jester? Seriously if someone wants to get lynched there are far easier ways to do it. Just fake a scumslip or something. Jester roles are way way WAY overpowered unless they are in a game where everyone knows there is a jester role, or if they have severe limitations or something.

ender's quick reread and then vote of xalxe is somewhat odd, BUT I agree that xalxe is scummy so I don't find anything wrong with it.

@ populartajo re 536: how is calling 6 people scum a towntell? I often think that the more options one keeps open for themselves the scummier. I've always thought people calling other people town is a towntell, as it is counterintuitive for scum to do so.

The great thing about furc is that if he is scum he will make a telling mistake. This game is no different. I'm not happy about deathnotes hammer - no chance for furc to claim (although that probably would have lead to furc surviving on the basis of the cop claim) and also cut me off from being able to catch up that day. Also this just adds to my existing suspicion of deathnote - this could have been a bus with the hammer a way to get townpoints.

Not to outguess the setup but three mafia teams? Seriously. I'm thinking it might be just the one or two with the "c" just there to fuck with our heads. The lack of three (or even 2) nightkills attests to this, which means there is probably also no vig or sk.

Tajo brings up a good point in 653 - as scummy as xalxe seems the fact that he was a rival wagon with furc = town points. At the very least it is very unlikely he would be on that scumteam, so I would say only scum if there is indeed more than one team.

...and then day 2 ends early. Well at least I know I shan't be silent day 3. I am going to be extra vigilant given that I haven't really been present yet.

Scum, you have been warned!

[ThAdmiral]

I shall miss the little crease plum got between her eyes when she frowned...

[ThAdmiral]

Forgot to vote.

I know it's suboptimal but

vote: xalxe

I'm also willing to vote deathnote if that looks more likely.

[ThAdmiral]

Vote for deathnote.

I might. If I feel it will send the right message.

[ThAdmiral]

@TA, it will, do it. And why do you care about sending the right message? Scum bud found.

I was quoting from a show.

Just had another look at deathnote's iso. There is definitely a few posts in there that are off such as inquiring about cops in 0, "We need to reevaluate why we believe him to be scum" in 7, talking about jesters in 12 and 13, talking about scumteams in 23.
It's enough for a vote.

vote: deathnote

[ThAdmiral]

I don't want to read this damn thread

Just read all my posts. They are a summary of the more-or-less major events. See if you agree or disagree with them.

talking about scumteams in 23.

Null here. This was

after

Furcolow flipped Mafia C.

True but we still don't actually know how many actual scumteams there are.

@ nocmen - IS won't be the lynch today. Choose out of xalxe or deathnote.

[ThAdmiral]

I forget the case on demonhybrid, but I don't really have much feelings about him either way.

It's funny being in a position, however, where I'm more or less equally happy to vote either of the lynch leaders today. I don't think I've ever been in that situation before!

[ThAdmiral]

I normally wouldn't ask like this but 4 people in an 11 player game I am hosting just dropped out/were deactivated for cheating.

Would anyone be willing to replace in? here's a link

[ThAdmiral]

Some very fine people have filled the slots in my game. Thank you to them, and to everyone else you won't hear another word about it!

Back to the scumhunt...

[ThAdmiral]

I don't like how you tested the waters with the Xalxe FoS, especially in a theatrical way, then switched to SC when Nocmen pushed you around. Tajo just happened to convince me and push me over the edge whereas you felt like restating your suspicion for Xalxe first. I dont feel comfortable with it.

This is a bad case imo. It's reaching and it doesn't hold up when you consider IS had been after xalxe since forever.

If you had to choose out of deathnote and xalxe who would you choose?

[ThAdmiral]

Also, I'm not talking about IS's Xalxe suspicion being scummy. It's the fact that he went along the SC wagon and pushed it while talking bloody murder for Xalxe, something isn't right about that.

His case on SC: he's scum, tajo and olinea made a good point.
His case on Xalxe: *five paragraphs long regarding Xalxes scum tells and why he is scum*

He only FoSes Xalxe, in fact, twice in the same post. It's a little strange.

True, it is a little strange. But I don't think that is enough to be wanting his lynch especially when there are, imo, much juicer lynch targets.

[ThAdmiral]

Also @ cooldog: seriously, deathnote or xalxe? I would be much happier having two confirmed town votes influencing the lynch rather than being on a random. You should take your double-voting power more seriously.

[ThAdmiral]

Oh, I just realized Xalxe was an assassin and a kill still happened tonight.

Does anyone know the usual mechanics of assassins? Scum teams still get a faction kill when they die, right?

I repeat this question.

The flip said he was a ninja. I dunno what it does - who submitted that role?

@ deathnote: thanks for self-voting. Since you're scum I actually think that is a pro-town action! Would you mind outing your buddies now?

In other news I don't want to lynch anyone until IS comes back. He's probably the person I trust most in this game.

[ThAdmiral]

I wanted to see if anyone submitted a vanilla townie role.

Given that you are a vanilla town, wouldn't you already know that someone had submitted a vanilla town role?

[ThAdmiral]

That is stupid. Why would I change my claim in a game which everyone can be a role regardless of alignment. Fakeclaims are not necessary. One of the roles I submitted was a hidden role in which you are told you are town but actually sided with the mafia.

I wanted to see if someone (FishyFish) submitted a standard VT otherwise I had to assume I got my own role.

Wait. So you're telling me that even if you aren't lying, and you did get a vanilla role, you still might be scum?

[ThAdmiral]

I find it odd that you would claim as early as you did.

With multiple scumteams it is just as likely that scum would have some sort of doc abilities as well. So that claim doesn't clear you at all.

Wagon seems good to me.

vote: zaljnet

[ThAdmiral]

@ Amrum: I think that is fair to say.

@ chess: was it one of your potions or whatever?

Browsing the player list I would be happy to lynch Tasky, WiR or Amrum.

[ThAdmiral]

@ chess: nvm

[ThAdmiral]

You didn't see who was doing those actions?

Also why did you pick those particular people?

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: Hahahaha, why me?

More process of elimination rather than anything else.
Obviously don't want to lynch cooldog/chesskid. And I like Is, fishy and zoraster more than you, so...

[ThAdmiral]

@ IS: you've done well to lose your town-read I had on you. Congrats.

[ThAdmiral]

@ cooldog: Um, I've voted three people total in this entire game: xalxe (scum), deathnote (ok he was town but he claimed jester and was generally rubbish), and zaljnet (I'll cop this one but there were definitely lynch shenanigans going on that brought about his lynch quicker than expected).

Basically you're wrong.

[ThAdmiral]

Thanks admiral. Your point in ignoring anything I said about Tasky also leaves you with a glowing townie review as well. (That's sarcasm, btw)

The tasky stuff I can agree with, but throwing paranoia suspicion on two people that we have absolutely 0 reason to believe are scum, and in fact every reason to think are town, is scummy.

[ThAdmiral]

But in any case...

vote: tasky

We pretty much all agree on this guy. Let's get it done.

[ThAdmiral]

I seem to remember fishy and zoraster as being fairly town so I def want to hear what they have to say.

[ThAdmiral]

@ta, you bussed your partner that time. Just shut up and get lynched already.

Wow, your case is so good.

So how long are we going to wait on Tasky, Fishy and Zoraster?

Until they post or are replaced obv.

[ThAdmiral]

I'd much rather lynch TA

[ThAdmiral]

I think WiR is extremely likely to be scum.

Has pretty much lurked throughout the entire game.

[ThAdmiral]

I think the "we can't afford to lynch wir" suggests they are in the same scumteam.

[ThAdmiral]

So you think fishy is scum, thad?

I don't really trust anyone right now.
I think WiR is a better bet, but fishy is probably scum.

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: why do you think I'm scum?

For one thing it doesn't look good that you are only posting at length now that you are getting pressure applied on you.
I also don't like that when you began posting today after a fairly long hiatus all you had to talk about were the nightkills.

[ThAdmiral]

As for where I stand today:
I will not support an Amrum or Is lynch.

Order of preference for others is: WiR, Fishy, Zoraster

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: why do you think IS is town?

He's been putting himself out there rather than lurking, and ceaselessly hunted down two mafiates.

[ThAdmiral]

My philosophy is that I don't know whether there is a mafia A, and that I don't know which mafia people like WiR or Fishy might be on. I believe that we should just be lynching the person who we feel is most likely to be scum.

[ThAdmiral]

WiR has always been my first choice to lynch so if we can come to consensus on that I'm all for it.

[ThAdmiral]

He's testing my patience.

[ThAdmiral]

More seriously I seem to remember him being ok in iso, nothing much bad/scummy - but that's mainly because he hasn't posted all that much.

[ThAdmiral]

Well I don't know what the setup is, or which scum are left. I do know that WiR is our best shot at scum.
Everyone seems to be in agreement, I see no reason not to...

vote: WiR

[ThAdmiral]

Must find out what happened last night!!!

Were we blocked from killing and hiding? Don't tell me zoraster forgot to send in his night action?!

[ThAdmiral]

I'm still angry at zoraster. He SHOULD have submitted his night action anyway, although it sucks that it would have failed. You could have mentioned that!!!

About 4 of those IS kills were us. That explains the lack of kills for the game.


Pretty gutted to have lost this having gotten so close tbh.

[ThAdmiral]

We also tried to kill fishy at some point if I remember correctly. As far as the hiding thing goes we were told we could hide behind "friendly" mafia members.

[ThAdmiral]

Town was pretty terrible in this game tbh.
It was unfortunate that a lot of players were simply absent as well.
And yes, amrum, poor us. We couldn't get a kill out for love nor money!

Btw feel free to post mafia b qt. I note the possibility that all the remaining people were scum, which ended up being hilariously true!

[ThAdmiral]

for the record I think a mass claim of all the available roles earlier in the game would have helped town.

[ThAdmiral]

This game was great fun though. I forgot to thank FashionLlama for hosting - so thanks for that! (also you have the funniest avatar ever)

I forgot how exciting it is to be alive at the pointy end of a large game. It's exhilarating!

[ThAdmiral]

I think tasky thought you were on to him.