Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[Nocmen]

Ooh previous dislikes and drama.

[Nocmen]

Ooh previous dislikes and drama.

On a sidenote, why did you come in to only leave this comment? No RVS vote?

I don't know any of the players at all in this list. So I don't have any past grudges to go against.

[Nocmen]

Curious to see what you think of my meta.

[Nocmen]

A meta means nearly nothing, so I don't think that's a very good question. Anyways, I've never played with you, so I don't think anything of your meta.

I was asking cry mainly, due to he said he got a meta read on me from it. Which I agree with his meta assement of myself lining up with my meta.

what I don't like from him though, is post 45.

[Nocmen]

Like jilynne, I prefer being deliberate with my vote, even in RVS. However, I think there is enough interaction to be confident in my vote.

VOTE: earworm

because I disapprove of unjustified bandwagoning in RVS

. It's too easy for a scum to fly under the radar by casting a bandwagon vote on someone they know to not be scum and not have to come up with a convincing explanation.

Really.

You want justified bandwagons in RVs? If I had a justification it wouldn't be a RV.

/theoryrant
I like bandwagons in RVs because occasionally they provide enough pressure and/or spark discussion in a way to end RVs. My vote is much better used on someone who already has a vote, then just lay it down on someone who doesn't have any, or worse keep it in my pocket.
/endrant

This is a bit too WIFOM. Not too important, but I need to point out the use of WIFOM this early.


Mass claim is no. Not in this.

Vote: CMAR

Not a fan of the large meta usage for everything, and using that to call people town or scum.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?

Why do you care about others opinions so much?

Why wouldn't you care about opinions? Isn't knowing where people stand and swaying their opinion part of what's needed in this game, regardless of being town or scum?

I see nothing wrong with jil's replys to vezok at all. However, if he's annoying you, then that ends up as being detrimental to the town.

The main reads I have now is I feel jil and surye are town, CMAR is leaning scum. Rest are neutral.

[Nocmen]

@nocmen: perhaps because it's my own post, I'm just not seeing the WIFOM. Could you explain what you mean? thanks.

UNVOTE: C-Worl

Yeah, I'm getting town vibes from these posts. Not doing anything useful yet, but whatever.

VOTE: Sathoris

I think at this point there should be one scum on the CMAR wagon. I don't like Sathoris's reasoning for his vote, so my vote goes here.

With RVS , the later votes, you can do two things.

1. Put it on a new random person
or
2. Put it on a person with a vote or two, starting a wagon.

The issue with 1 is that if you do that, then it isn't truely random, as you are purposely avoiding the wagon(s), which means that you either fear the wagon and being suspected from joining it, or you don't want to have an early wagon turn into a quick lynch.
If you go with 2, then you show that you don't fear being judged for number one, which leads right into WIFOM.

[Nocmen]

May I ask why you have a town read on me and Surye?

Surye is his stance with questions and what he's said so far. Your's is from the interaction with vezo.

[Nocmen]

The more I think about it, there's a large issue with later MCs. With the scum killing, they will know which PRs are killed more than we will, likely.

But at the same time, an MC is a horrible idea in this setup. I think we need to just stop thinking about an MC at all. I can't see it being good in any way shape or form.

[Nocmen]

I agree with a lot of those reads, one I have to note as a change is monk, as I really don't like the post with the self-investigating. Just rubs me the wrong way with how it's written. This could change though as I see more of his posting style.

[Nocmen]

Sorry, but can you guys not cuss? I honestly don't see what cussing accomplishes. It seems quite rude and makes you seem less classy. Thanks!

Bein' classy over here,

I agree with a lot of those reads, one I have to note as a change is monk, as I really don't like the post with the self-investigating. Just rubs me the wrong way with how it's written. This could change though as I see more of his posting style.

It's useful, the common reason that investigators get mislynched when they reveal is if they're left alive by the mafia because they are insane, investigating themselves they know their sanity (possibly, empking may have thought of something) and so can use this as a basis for actually finding scum. Let's face it the Insane cop is going to return guilty most likely on their first investigation and will probably reveal to the town that they have someone, I've given this a lot of thought. With the abnormal ability to investigate oneself the best idea is to do so. I know I would.

Oh, I fully understand the investigating and why it's needed. But your post rubbed me like it was...convenient, or something to you.

[Nocmen]

I don't like a single one of C-worl's posts. None. Especially his reaction to votes in RVS.

VOTE: C-worl

Start a case on him, or else this is not a good vote.

He did start it, with the reaction to RVS votes. What do you think of that case?

My concern with the Surye posts is not MC strategy, but the fact that he didn't know one of hte main factors of the game (NKs aren't revealed publicly), as I worry what else he may not read later on.

[Nocmen]

Just came back to say I just realized that Surye has been posting a lot but apparently didn't catch the mod confirming that lynches flip. And thus he's not paying attention.

VOTE: Surye
again.

You didn't technically ninja me this time deitykabuto. But, eh. I feel no shame.

Why does this matter?

I know the mod confirms lynches. I never said they didn't. My concern was night kills.

Why does this differentiation mean a vote/non-vote for me? Looks like you're trying hard to justify a vote on me..

That is why I beleived that, Surye.

[Nocmen]

Reasons why I voted Cobblerfone:

I don't particularly like this public rumination about CMAR's role.
I'm not liking

this

vote on Surye. Seems really reaching to me.
The fact that you said lynch cops gives my pause for concern also.

Answer to Cobblerfone's question:

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

Which one do you think is most likely then, from the 4 people on it?

coolies, I've caught up with all my games now, yay!
Now for my reads:

Town:
Cobblerfone
Deitykabuto
CMAR
Sathoris
jilynne
earworm
Surye
Ironhead

Scum:
Vezok
wredfar
TheMask

null:
CWorl
sorasgoof
TheJackalope

I'm the one person missing from that.

Unvote, Vote: Cobblerfone

Your list is too wishy-washy, as I think not having any scum reads at all, why do you have your vote on someone who you have as leaning both town and scum? I do not like this attitude. You seem too afraid and cautious to go be wrong on someone you call scum, when it's day 1, and cases on people have to start somewhere. I will have to read this previous game that vezok mentioned though, and compare to your actions so far, as much as I hate basing cases on meta.

[Nocmen]

You seem too afraid and cautious to go be wrong on someone you call scum, when it's day 1, and cases on people have to start somewhere. I will have to read this previous game that vezok mentioned though, and compare to your actions so far, as much as I hate basing cases on meta.

Please read the newbie game as well. I think it'll explain my "afraid to outright call people scum relentlessly on D-1" mindset I have now. Plus I'm not exactly sure how that might work as evidence since there's two scum-factions that are also hunting each other. At least, I think they would.

But it still doesn't negate the fact that scum want to be more open and more cautious, which you are both. Hell, I know some people see recklessness (up to a point) as a town tell here.

Also, While I may accept meta as a reason for an attack, I don't like it as a defense, especialyl as a self defense, after you mention how you've evolved your playstyle in games. You were much more reckless in your newbie game, but why should that stop you if you are town? The cautionness you demonstrate here really pins you as scum to me.

[Nocmen]

the only way we get 3 cops claiming at the same time is if the sk claims, which is highly unlikely.

You said that pretty exactly....Please, tell me why only the SK would claim cop, and not scum? The level of detail is a bit too specific for your scenarios, which kind of bothers me.

FoS: earworm

[Nocmen]

>.<

...Maybe I'm not being clear enough.

I'm saying that mafia would be more likely than the SK to claim cop.

Which is true. The only way an SK to win is to survive to endgame. Claiming cop is a good way to reduce that chance to next too nil.

If you were clear, you're now being contradicting. Now scum would be more likely?

[Nocmen]

Okay, so there are 2 cops. Both would claim cop if it was made today, which the MC isn't happening. However, you at first said the only way for a third claim(fake claim) would be the chance that the SK claims cop. And now you're saying that mafia would be more likely to claim than the sk? Which is it? That's the contradiction.

[Nocmen]

Post 107 (Nocmen): Horrible. That post you quoted wasn't WIFOM at all. Even if it were WIFOM, I don't like the way you tried to present it. "Not too important, but I need to point out the use of WIFOM this early." Okay, why? Do you think it's scummy? You're trying to spread suspicion around subtly.

Somethings aren't scummy on their own. However, when it's done repeatedly, or constantly, that's when it becomes suspicious.

Post 115 (Nocmen): Jil's interactions with Vezo are null at best, in my opinion.

Differing opinions

Post 174 (Nocmen): That's not a case, and even if it were, someone else already brought it up.

So this is a scum reason because I misattributed the person who had the case on C-worl? Because I asked a unrelated person who brought up the vote their opinion on it?

Post 220 (Nocmen): I feel like you're intentionally not understanding earworm. >_>

Am I the only one that sees the contradiction in earworm?

Okay, I'm done. I got the worst overall vibes from Nocmen, though several others are close behind. After a while, perhaps, I'll sum up my reads in a list (with reasoning, of course) and do a wagon analysis. The latter might have to wait until Day 2, though.

Why wait, when you seem to like and dislike some of the lists posted in the thread so far? What are your other main reads?

I'm not sure how genuine this vote is -- is Cobblerfone voting Earworm because he thinks he is scummy, or because he sees Earworm as a patsy? And, if Earworm is as suspicious as others have noted, why does he only have two votes?

I'm voting cobbler because I see him as scummier than earworm. I'd vote both if I could. Cobbler's reasons for voting earworm seem to be a slip about sk claiming, looking at the post where he voted earworm. What I want to know, is when Cobber started suspecting earworm. He ignores him at first, then puts him in an interest list.

Which leaves me to repeat a question to earworm, because he seems to have been distracted with the contradiction stuff:

Reasons why I voted Cobblerfone:

I don't particularly like this public rumination about CMAR's role.
I'm not liking

this

vote on Surye. Seems really reaching to me.
The fact that you said lynch cops gives my pause for concern also.

Answer to Cobblerfone's question:

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

Which one do you think is most likely then, from the 4 people on it?

[Nocmen]

Okay, so there are 2 cops. Both would claim cop if it was made today, which the MC isn't happening. However, you at first said the only way for a third claim(fake claim) would be the chance that the SK claims cop. And now you're saying that mafia would be more likely to claim than the sk? Which is it? That's the contradiction.

*facepalm*

did you even READ my post?

-1- we get a cop claim today. NO CC's. We lynch someone else and wait for tommorrow. ALL COPS SELF INVESTIGATE. We ask him his sanity. Ask if anybody wants to cc his sanity. If yes we keep our eyes on the two of them and continue to ask them for results. If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

IF WE GET A COP CLAIM TODAY NOBODY SHOULD CC.

We wait for tomorrow and ask the claimed cop his sanity. THEN ask for CCs. That narrows down their role and anyone who wants to cc must claim

that specific role

. (because all cops

will

self investigate tonight)

finally, you make sense. But you still were making too many assumptions and changing scenarios.

Oh God.

Cobblerfone is still scum.

I still think we should move on.

Move on to who? Why?

[Nocmen]

I wouldn't say very scummy, considering what you've done, but DeityKabuto does seem a little lynch happy.

Quite honestly, I think Sathoris justified it pretty well, it's just that I'd prefer to wait for at least one more scumtell or mistake on your part.

Why pointing out Deity and not Sathoris? Didn't they do the exact same thing? Aside from the fact that Sathoris is first, but doesn't that seem a bit trigger happy?

As for Pine's post itself, The numbers seem a bit incorrect and I just don't think it's something that happens. I don't like the call about C-worl, without himself having read the game before then.

But then...C-worl's response. Is that all you can say, C-worl? Don't have any comments on your meta or something about that?

[Nocmen]

i love you too Pineykins.

This reminds me of the last game we were in together with you as scum.

But this:

I have played against Pine when he was scum, been on the same scum team with him, been town in the same game as him, am hydra'd with him in another game. So, if anyone would know about my meta, my way of thinking, or my tells, it would be him.

Seems like a townish explanation. Can you tell though, what tone you were trying to express with this post:

Pine's in this game? Oh boy...

Because depending on how you read them, it seems to clash with the above. Without sarcasm, how do you feel about Pine being in the game?

Pine... He's a brilliant Mafia player but he seems to always have one flaw... me. And like wise I have the same flaw with him. When we're not partners or hydra'd together we always think the other is scum. For some reason that's how our relationship has evolved. Therefore this game gets harder for me with Pine playing bc I will inevitably drop all other reads and tunnel on him. I'm not sure when it'll happen but knowing our previous games it will happen eventually. Yes, he would know my meta better than anyone, yes I would have a firm grip on his. Problem is that'll only add to our cross tunneling that is bound to eventually happen.

So basically... am I happy Pine's in the game? If he's town then yes, he is a great scumhunter and my chances of winning just improved greatly. If he's scum... this should be a game that will piss me off greatly. In the end I feel that Pine being in this game made the game a lot easier and a lot harder at the same time.

That just sounds like an excuse for you to go and tunnel on Pine, and if say, you find he's town and mislynch, use his meta as an excuse?

[Nocmen]

Actually, what we're both more or less saying is simply that we don't trust our reads of each other.

It's you folks that keep reading more into that simple statement.

You said that upfront, but I was more curious about C-worl's response initially to you joining the game. It was just now that he pretty much said the same that you did. However though, isn't that our goal to read into things? Go through and determine what has more meaning, with a personal agenda?

I'm not going to attack Pine right now, I have a slight town read on him from his meta and from how fast he let himself come into attention.

Thing is, there isn't really much else to go on. Cobbler's been acting more cautious ever since amassing some votes. Could be that he's trying to avoid that situation from repeating because he scared about being caught for the wrong reasons. Though that's stretching it.

I still think Pine's post is lynchworthy. His defense of replacements seemed a tad too much aswell.

Replacements are one of the Town's biggest advantages, asshat. We look at things with new eyes and have the chance to provide new insight. Replacments are not burdened by confirmation bias, and often become game-changers.

Immediately attacking replacements to discredit them is one of the most self-serving and scummiest things one can do in this game. Especially when they're replacing into a slot that is a nearly clean slate.

Only we're on page 12 of day one, there are no confirmations and not a lot has happened in the way of damning or clearing anybody. Your predecossor has one post in which he said he didn't see anything. I wouldn't call that a nearly clean slate other than no slate upon which to measure.

This whole C-Worl/Pine conversation has been dragging on, but for what reason? It's hardly worth posting about. Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl. I really don't buy you too can't play together without tunneling on each other while getting the wrong read. And with all due respect, if you can't play together without that sort of thing happening perhaps you need to look at your play again and change something.

There's also been a lot of lurking, as evident from the recent prods. Not a big fan of looking at the lurkers to find a mafia on day one. Only time will tell.

As things stand I remain on my vote untill something significant changes.

First of all, I don't think the vote on Pine is worth it right now, especially when scum wants to go more under the radar, not burst and draw eyes to themself. From other games I've seen Pine in, he doesn't draw attention to himself, which is why I'm thinking he's town for now.

I do agree though with the Cobbler mention, he has made a lot of repeating, with little scum hunting, but his post frequency has definitely decreased in the past couple days.

What sticks out to me most from this post? Defending a lurker.

Unvote, Vote: Sathoris

[Nocmen]

Jilynne, if you're going to say something like that, at least have the guts to address it to someone or something specific. Spouting accusations aimed at no one are far more useless than even the active lurking of DK and sorasgoof, as they don't make the pretense of being useful.

In other words, Mafia is not a game where being nice and polite earn you points. Tact and diplomacy have their place, but being coy about an accusation does not.

Which post are you referring to here? Jil pretty much called DK out directly for it, isn't that at least someone?

[Nocmen]

Pine: I was referring to this post:

Sorry for not posting lately. I'm still here.

That's nice.

What. a. freaking. hypocrite. Nice job active lurking. Consider youself on my scum list.

This is also provoking me to reread all you posts.

[Nocmen]

@Nocmen: are you going to completely ignore the votes on you? Any comments at all?

@Surye: While I personally have a town read on him, I think the main reason people aren't going down that avenue right now is lack of activity coming from him. This game is moving pretty slow for my tastes.

I replied to sora's case. I'm not going to disagree with Iron's case or your sheeping of that case.

@Kabuto: how would you describe your posting style?

Though it seems to have already been pointed out that it's very brief. (And your posts here have some wagon-hopping. Which is null in my book, but when combined with brevity not good at all.)

So I'll ask you this question instead: Who do you think are scum?

Despite the posting style thing, I suspect a lot of people, how/what they post compared to other comments seem a bit scummy.

Example:

Person A) Hey let's lynch this guy, he is a major noobo.

Person B) Hey let's lynch Person A) for voting a major noobo.

Person C) Hey let's lynch Person B) for bussing his scumpartner.

Person D) Hey let's lynch Person C) for double-bussing his scumpartner.

Person E) Hey let's lynch Person D) for making no fucking sense

Person F) Hey you all of you dumbfucks do me a favor and start scumhunting (that's me)

Ignore the previous example, I just felt like putting in there, but really lawl. My next post will be the most safest-lynch for the day. So stay tuned!

Screw the examples, give them in reference to this game.

[Nocmen]

I replied to sora's case. I'm not going to disagree with Iron's case or your sheeping of that case.

That's pretty bold -- after all, an essential part of my case on you was that you refused to acknowledge that Earworm was making sense when replying to your argumentation. Are you indicating that you were intentionally being obtuse when responding to Earworm? If so, why?

What I'm saying to both you and earworm is that yes, the case makes me look scummy. I'm not going to disagree with that. But I don't think that I need to worry about it and reply to it, as it's up to the call of everyone else to decide whether or not they agree with it.

[Nocmen]

Cobblefone is still scum.

Can't you see it? Now he is posting less in order to make the suspicion go away form him.

I have to agree with this, having mentioned it before as well. After the suspicion occured, he goes and reduces his posting.

[Nocmen]

jil: Please show direct quotes as to where DK and vezok are making sense and contributing to scum hunting.

[Nocmen]

Right here. At least to making sense. And if they're making sense and not scumhunting, wouldn't you agree that's active lurking?

Perhaps I was a simple child growing up...ehm...I'm sure you'll do well in your pursuit of education, jily. (whatchu know bout dem VIs?)

Explain further please? I don't understand that.

I was just saying DK and vezok are making very much sense to me.

[Nocmen]

People flying under the radar and stuff, I want to see more people posting reads.

How about starting with your own?

[Nocmen]

I agree with Ironhead that this wagon gained a bit too quickly.

We have a week still before deadline. Not time to compromise yet.

Unvote.

. Not sure which of the DK wagoners to vote yet.

[Nocmen]

Not sure which of the DK wagoners to vote yet.

I pulled this exact trick in my scum game, Nocmen. Making a quick-wagon seem scummy and limiting my primary vote pool to the three most suspicious wagoners.

As a side note: With Quilford in I have at least one person from each of my completed games.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nocmen

Except it is scummy. Everyone hopping on a "policy lynch" or someone they can't get a read on, when it's not the end of the day. I'd understand at the end of the day making him a compromise lynch, as I see that very plausible that DK will be that come a week from now.

[Nocmen]

I'm not buying the claim fully, but I don't think it warrants a lynch right now on him. Much better for vig kill.

Or if someone else claims another PR today, force him to guard them. If he stays alive, lynch him tomorrow.

[Nocmen]

Here's the main issue I have with the DK lynch.

I've looked through his iso.

The main thing I feel about DK is that he needs to post his reads. Right now he's just being stubborn and it's definitely hurting us. Also, do we want to give him a chance to confirm his role? If we have another PR that claims, he has to defend them, and if he is still alive afterwards, then lynch him? Would that work? In theory it should, but additionally I'm rushing and it may not.

[Nocmen]

Forgot to mention that too regarding earworm:

Vote: earworm

[b/]

Disliking almost all of his votes. All seem to be either sheeping, or just bad arguments at all.

[Nocmen]

Vote: earworm

Damn tags.

[Nocmen]

EBWOP: (obviously you believes it, it just didn't look like you even considered it was a fake claim)

Which makes a note towards Peregrine:

Why do you beleive the DK claim so far? Do you see his actions as town?

Also, VLA until Monday. I'll have internet, but only once or twice a day for an hour or two.

[Nocmen]

Vote: earworm

That post does nothing but add suspicion I already had on him

[Nocmen]

I'll have to reread soon. As of right now, though, I think C-Worl is town. Also, I'm leaning town on Ironhead and Surye. I don't recall the case on Cobblerfone, so I'll have to catch up on that. Based on post 483, though, he's leaning slightly townie.

Don't like Vezok's vote post. ...just a vote. No thoughts on anything else? Great.

Why does 483 make you think of Cobbler as slightly town?

I agree with vezok though, and extend the same to The Mask, having done the same. And what's curious is the Pine quote. That just seems like something's off to me.

[Nocmen]

My case on earworm is that I see him most likely as sheeping hte case on DK yesterday, as well as the fact that he was unwilling to post reads for a bit. And of the most important reads he has, his votes, I don't like any of them. All seem fishy.

[Nocmen]

I'll explain my scumreads. Town reads I will not however. (not protown, imo)

First off switch Jily and C-Worl on my list. Got them confuzzled for a bit.

Cobbler-Same reason as yesterday plus suspicious and opportunistic vote on me today.
Jily-Hated her vote on DK yesterday. Tried to justify it way too much.

Pine-Didn't like the interaction he had with C-worl. I also think his reason for voting me is terrible.
C-worl-Didnt like the interaction with Pine. Also not playing very protown. Lurky and unhelpful.

I realyl don't like the interaction cases with C-worl/Pine, seems a bit weak. I agree with the Cobbler reasoning, and I'm somewhat suspicious of Jily.

But, I want to hear at least some of your town reads. You can't just go with the popular scum targets, and ignore everyone else.

[Nocmen]

I believe the claim and the motivation of Iron as his target.

Unvote

[Nocmen]

Post 536

Claiming: Hider.

Ironhead is town.

Post 539

I believe the claim and the motivation of Iron as his target.

Unvote

Post 540

Decent chance that he was town and I like his use of logic. Good person to have confirmed.

@Nocmen- How could you like it when he hadn't even given it yet?

Vote: Nocmen

Because that's the read I had on iron. He is leaning town to me.
What is your read of Iron?

[Nocmen]

@Nocmen- I have Iron leaning town, as I'd already Isoed him.

But, you didn't say that that was also your read on Iron. You said you "believe the claim (Earworm's claim) and the motivation (Earworm's motivation) of Iron as his target". But Earworm didn't give that until after your post.

So if you think he's town, then do you agree that if you were the hider, you'd say he was a good target to pick? Because that's exactly what I did. Stop grasping at straws.

[Nocmen]

Vote: jilynne1991

I want to hear more from her, not liking this dissappearance.

Need to do another analysis on Cobbler, vezok, and Peregrine though.

[Nocmen]

Questions:

Mask: In your post 91, why did you leap to traitor or SK rather than scum? In post 365, why did you allot Surye scumpoints and DK townpoints for the exact same thing? Why then did you vote DK 3 minutes later? Also, you are definitely using the term "distancing" incorrectly.

Nocmen: In your post 228, did you see no confliction in being willing to vote for both Earworm and Cobbler? As stated in 48, what about earworm's post was suspicious?

Ironhead 476: WHY do you believe scum are more likely to join the wagon after the role reveal?

Pine: WHY did you claim VT?!

While I suspected cobbler, and still do, earworm's vote seemed like the most possible one to bus. I didn't like the sheeping and I didn't like the context of earworm's vote.

[Nocmen]

Amrun:

This is the post I was referring to.

Anybody have any clue why there's only two kills? There should be three.

As for why I thought DK was scum, his posts smelt like flailing scum. One especially felt like a scum claim to me. ("Okay, I take it back, I am not pro-town, geez. o.o") I was wrong.

Cobblerfone on the other hand is still scum.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

1. Overjustification for jumping on a mislynch
2. Nightkill speculation

[Nocmen]

While I suspected cobbler, and still do, earworm's vote seemed like the most possible one to

bus

You mean "push" right? I was going to say scumslip but that makes no sense since I know I'm town, and earworm is like 99% confirmed town.

What amrun said. Of all the votes on your wagon, I suspected his to be bussing you.

[Nocmen]

I wish I had questions or something for you jily. But I don't. Although you can put me in the boat with those that want your opinion of every player.

So you suspect jily and vote her, and yet you just say its because you had suspicion before? You contribute nothing towards the case on her with that vote.

Also, the suspicion on Amrun seems a bit unwarranted. You suspect her for...asking questions to Sathoris? I've replaced in before and done the same thing. It's good to get a read on players before you know who has died, to get the most unbiased reads. So at least I will personally ignore that case. Additionally, I feel in this game we need to work with guessing the roles of the NKed. Also, you also make it sound like jily and Amrun have a lot of posts relating to each other. They don't. I don't see any buddying going on. So I don't like this case on Amrun either. And this is followed by what seems to me like an overreaction. However, I can't take that as a scum read right now, because I've seen a lot of townies do it recently.

FoS: Mask

. Keeping vote on Jily until she actually gets something in.

@Peregrine: I don't like what seems to be a complete 180 on me. I fail to see what happened in between the vote on me and the unvote that all of a sudden makes you think I'm leaning town.

[Nocmen]

I really don't like the fact that she has the C-worl vote, the reasoning behind it, and little scum reads, which seems a bit concerning.

[Nocmen]

Wait....so the reads are possible if Amrun is town so therefore you vote her because she's scum?

....

....

Unvote, Vote: Peregrine

[Nocmen]

Nocmen-"Wait....so the reads are possible if Amrun is town so therefore you vote her because she's scum?"

Uhhh, what are the odds of two players, given everything I said above, having the exact same reads? Are you even reading?

Let's look at the case again:

"Amrun replaced Quilford who replaced monk.
Monk's reads are at the top, Amrun's reads below.
2 distinct players,
One male, one female.
One US east coast, one Australian East coast.
One day1 reads, one day2 reads

Almost exact same reads? Who are you kidding?

Might happen if you were town, but totally doubt it

. Guessing you replaced into a scum slot, and it's easier using what the slot already posted then redo their work."

You say that it's fully possible to happen if they were town, but theyn you discount that fact completely and say she must be scum.

[Nocmen]

@empking: Do the sanities flip to the player that nightkills them?

why are you asking this?

any cc's?

It makes sense to me now. Scum would know what to fake, but since they dont know which cop they killed if they killed a cop last night, they can't fake the insane.

Unvote

unless a counterclaim pops.`

[Nocmen]

Unvote

Since it didn't appear in the last time.

I'm not buying the claim fully, but I don't think it warrants a lynch right now on him. Much better for vig kill.

Or if someone else claims another PR today, force him to guard them. If he stays alive, lynch him tomorrow.

Old ass quote, I know. I didn't get around to reading the end of D1 until now. This plan wouldn't benefit town. You not only out another power role, but also ignore that the SK could block DK in order to frame him.

Here's the main issue I have with the DK lynch.

I've looked through his iso.

The main thing I feel about DK is that he needs to post his reads. Right now he's just being stubborn and it's definitely hurting us.

Also, do we want to give him a chance to confirm his role? If we have another PR that claims, he has to defend them, and if he is still alive afterwards, then lynch him? Would that work?

In theory it should, but additionally I'm rushing and it may not.

You attempt to have this done twice. One time was bad enough. But I think you kept pushing it since people ignored the first request.

dat finger of suspicion on Nocmen

And how is that scummy, repeating what I said?

[Nocmen]

No question, Cobb. Just checking to see if it was noted.

@Nocmen: You see nothing wrong with pressing for PRs to come out on Day 1?

I didn't say anything about having them come out. I said if they came out because of other wagons, it would have given us the best case with DK.

[Nocmen]

lynching him for not being anti-town seems a little counterproductive.

Why would we do that?

I would very much like to lynch him for not being pro-town, or not being anti-scum, or for being scummy; however you want to define his behavior. But I do not define his behavior as "not being anti-town."

His last few posts have been very poor for the town; I get the impression that he isn't even trying to appear townish,

Wait what? (the bolded)

How does that make sense? If I am town why would I need to appear townie. I am already town. Trying to appear townie is what scum do.

Yes, exactly. That is the elephant in the room -- trying to appear town is what scum ought to do, and you're not even trying. Even with this last post, you come across as being obv scum -- as Pine noted with regard to the fallacious reasoning you have demonstrated.

I am bemused at how difficult it is to get a wagon going on you and consider this to be a testament to your scumminess. DK was also a poor player, and it was easy to generate momentum on his wagon, in contradistinction to your wagon (or lack thereof thus far). This reinforces my suspicions that you are scum being protected by partners.

I want to hear what you think about appearing town. Where do townies fit in with that theory? What should townies be doing that's different from what scum does acting town? I'm not disagreeing with it, but I want to hear your personal stance.

Also, if you think that he's being defended with his partners, who are his partners? I see Amrun, but who else? There are only 3 scum in this, so it's two people max who can be defending him.

[Nocmen]

jil: You voted C-worl, yet you don't think of chk as scummy?

Pedit: I see that changed a bit. But seriously, you had the vote on C-worl, and now reluctant for chk?

I'm okay with pressuring to get posts from chk.

Vote: Chkflip

[Nocmen]

I cannot in good conscience switch my vote to chkflip, who is also being voted on by Amrun and Nocmen.
If chkflip has half a brain, he'll survival vote vezok.

Either way, @Earworm, response to your question is on its way.

I understand your concern with Amrun, but why am I an issue with the wagon? Your mediocre at best case on me? The fact that I disagree with your "case" on Amrun?

But yea, deadline in under 24 hours. I'm perfectly content with chk being the lynch.

[Nocmen]

Vote: Vezok

, I don't think there's any reason or motivation for the SK/RB to block vezok. No scenario I can think of for that makes sense to me right now. Nor protecting someone other than a claimed cop.

Just for curiosity, who did you target previously, Vezok? What was your motivation to guard them?

[Nocmen]

Vote: Vezok

, I don't think there's any reason or motivation for the SK/RB to block vezok. No scenario I can think of for that makes sense to me right now. Nor protecting someone other than a claimed cop.

Just for curiosity, who did you target previously, Vezok? What was your motivation to guard them?

I didn't guard anyone on night 1.

I had no strong leads and I like being alive.

So why afraid to go still? Afraid of blocking a crosskill?

It's selfish to play to stay alive as long as you want to. That's why I'm voting you. Why wouldn't you sacrifice yourself for the good of the team?

[Nocmen]

I'm waiting to hear a bit from earworm's replacement, hopefully he'll take the hammer, as mentioned. But I agree that things are slow, and my apologies for not contributing as much as I should either.

[Nocmen]

Scum hammers usually if they want to end discussion without partners saying more. A bit of a moot point with such low activity.

[Nocmen]

Cobbler, that's presuming that the missed PM isnt related to the modkill?

[Nocmen]

Vote: Vezok

Nothing has changed really. I'm still don't see how it could be beneficial at all for that night choice. It's just anti-town. But at the same time, it's vezok.

[Nocmen]

VOTE: Mask

Mafia
Mask, Nocmen?

SK
Kcda? Sora?

Never hunted SKs before. :/ Traitor isn't up there because they could be dead, they could be recruited, they could be unrecruited, etc.

So wait, you post this, seemingly ignoring vezok in this post, but in your next post, you add him after Iron mentions about him likely being your partner.

Seems like pretty solid buddying.

Anyone else want a fast wagon on Cobbler before deadline?

[Nocmen]

Well...if vezok is BG, let's give him a chance to confirm it in a blaze of glory? Lynch Cobbler today, and auto-lynch vezok if he's alive tomorrow and Iron isnt?

Then again...I don't know if that directly works, if SK is still alive, then SK kills Iron, while vezok (if scum) kills...no I think that still works?

[Nocmen]

EBWOP:

Unvote, Vote: Cobblerfone

[Nocmen]

I was actually quite happy to die, because I was completely cast off with nothing to really go on at all. The no-reveal really hurts my scumhunting playstyle.