Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[Kast]

@CandleJack/Morph-
Opportunistic much?

@Anti/Ace-
Feeling the waters? Not liking these posts.

@GreyIce-
Please clarify if your claim is serious.
-If so, does your power ALSO prevent a watcher from seeing the ACTUAL culprit? (This should be a no-brainer to share if you're seriously claiming)
-Would your ability false track to protected and/or kill immune targets (ie. failed kill attempts)?

[Kast]

@Greyice-
How about you cut the crap and play the game? Flailing around randomly D1 like an idiot is just going to waste time and peg you for a useless VI. If you're scum, then keep it up, but if you're town, you're just going to hurt your credibility when you try to play seriously later. In either case, you're just setting yourself up as lynch bait (either as a mislynch or a sacrificial bus) and that's clearly not playing to your win con.

[Kast]

@GreyIce-
If you're trying to make a veiled implication that I'm fishing or some other BS, then be clear and explain how my questions would harm town in ANY WAY AT ALL. If you have an actual objection, then share it. Otherwise, answer the questions and get back to playing the game. Your posturing is completely pointless.

@Ace-
The bold means exactly what it says. GreyICE is playing as a VI and instead of responding to the questions, he flips out and calls me scum. He's setting himself up to be lynched later:
-If he is town, then he's clearly not playing to his win con and just being a VI.
-If he is scum, then he's ALSO not playing to his win con

@Lobster-
Post #23 is the flailing. It has nothing to do with Amrun. GreyIce did something idiotic as town; but if he is serious town, then he can mitigate his crap-play by answering some simple questions that will help us avoid misinformation and evaluate future claims/actions/events.

Instead he flips out in ALL CAPS whining that I'm picking on his "false claim" and posting gibberish.

@Nocmen-
There's a difference between stating what you think and asking people if it's ok to think what you think. The "town must vote immediately" mindset is ridiculous and needs to be killed. I think I've been spoiled by playing mostly games with competent playerbases where this stuff doesn't need to be explained.

@Candlejack-
-The whole objection to the "cult speculation" is a load of BS. *IF* you genuinely thought it was an attempt to mislead the town, then you should have let Amrun dig a hole for himself. Voting as you did prevents us from getting anything valuable that could potentially have been gotten. In this case, the *IF* doesn't apply since it was obviously not anything near as meaningful or insidious as you pretend.
-About the Amrun vote, some of us remember that scum like attacking harmless jokes or greetings as if they are legit scum tells. Just like what you are doing.
-Since Amrun clearly wasn't bringing up a cult in any manner that was at all harmful, your defense is invalid.

@Amrun-
GreyICE is playing the same as his recent play in Storm of Swords, in which he skizophrenically flailed and jumped around attacking BS case after BS case, simply based on who was attacking him at the time. In addition, each new case resulted in him overreacting more than the previous with a corresponding increase in hostility and degradation of his posting from addressing points, to simple all caps insults/off-topic whining/gibberish. This got so bad that he was essentially forced to replace out. His all caps/gibberish/overly hostile over-reaction to my post is extremely reminiscent of his behavior in the previous game, and I strongly hope he does not repeat it here.

To note, GreyIce was town in that game, which is all the more reason I'd prefer if he reigns in his playstyle and doesn't repeat his VI play from that game in the event he is town again.

@Candlejack-
Is there a reason you are so paranoid and trying to make everyone else paranoid about Amrun? If you genuinely believe his comment is as harmful as you keep claiming, then there shouldn't be any reason to avoid explaining to the town why and how you think Amrun's comment could hurt us. Simply claiming "CULTS ARE TEH EVIL!!@!" doesn't cut it. Instead of just telling us Mind Screw 3 was horrible because of the cult speculation, tell us how Amrun's comment even minutely leads to what happened in Mind Screw 3.

@Pom-
You're right, it's not obvious sarcasm on it's own, but even pretending it is, that only addresses the first line. The remainder of his post is gibberish with an OMGUS added to it.

@Starbuck-
Welcome! Amrun's comment/vote was an irrelevant and perhaps inappropriate jab at you; let's all let it go and play a good game?

[Kast]

I believe lynching you will remove one player who doesn't share my win condition, Kast.

That's because you're either scum or VI town who doesn't know any better. Sadly, this additional useless post doesn't distinguish between the two any more than any of your other useless posts did. But please answer the questions already.

Spoiler: As an aside, your recollections of ASoS Mafia does not match post record

You were pushing multiple crap wagons on primarily town players; though you also attacked one scum player and briefly joined my wagon on the 3rd party. Your cases attacks were almost exclusively overreactions to people attacking or disagreeing with you. Your first suspect was DGB (town), second was Benmage (town), third was Mikujin (scum), fourth on Zoraster (3rd party), fifth on xvart (town). You never once called MoI suspicious; however you are correct that you repeatedly argued with him (primarily just insulting him). Further, your wagons on Ben, Mikujin, and Zoraster were all short lived and barely touched. You only really went hard after townies DGB and xvart.

[Kast]

@GreyIce-
Answer:

-[D]oes your power ALSO prevent a watcher from seeing the ACTUAL culprit? (This should be a no-brainer to share if you're seriously claiming)
-Would your ability false track to protected and/or kill immune targets (ie. failed kill attempts)?

If you think answering hurts town, explain.

[Kast]

@Candlejack-

Why on earth would people assume that GreyICE's allcaps "no, of course not" with that phrasing was anything other than a sarcastic response to Kast? Seriously, all it's missing is the "here's your sign" afterwards.

You're assuming his claim is true. If his claim was a joke, then he could easily have posted an upset/nonsensical drivel like he did in response to a perceived attack. If you need it broken down further, the second and third sentence specifically have no relevance to my actual post since I had not implied any doubt or believe that his claim was a "fake claim" but rather I had explicitly contrasted the two possibilities of GreyIce claiming seriously against GreyIce joking (let me know if you need the difference between a joke and an actual false claim explained).

You're saying that claiming Miller on Day 1 is anti-town?

Don't play stupid please. GreyIce's claim is equivalent to stating "Hey scum, don't kill me and I'll protect you from getting watched or tracked". It's VERY different from a simple miller claim. Secondly, millers coming out D1 and claiming to be a miller is hardly an optimum play; much less so in a large game, though it's value rises with the chance of the miller getting investigated.

You're avoiding the point I actually made; since GreyIce is making an unprompted partial claim, he should include the relevant info for his claim which helps town without similarly helping scum.

I'm also not seeing how you get a "flip out" from GreyICE's play. Looks like scum misrepresentation to me.

Pretty simple. GreyICE responded to simple questions by posting a hostile, all-caps, overblown response to in imagined fishing(?) attempt, placing an OMGUS vote for that perceived but unreal "attack", and posting unhappy/frustrated gibberish.

Explain how any of his post is relevant. Since you want to talk about it, how about also address the issue of GreyIce avoiding the questions.

when I could just pressure her and let her dig a hole with her reactions

Your pressure does nothing of this sort, so please don't mention irrelevant points as if they are valid defense.

shutting down anti-town speculation.

This is fine if it was your purpose. It doesn't need a vote or encouragement for others to similarly vote. It also would suggest you cared to explain how Amrun's post could lead to the doomsday scenario you keep pushing; unfortunately you did not and still are not doing so.

Telling us that town being distracted by cult speculation is bad DOES NOT EQUAL explaining how Amrun's post leads to that bad outcome or could even remotely lead to that.

there was a time not all that far back when joking was a fairly reliable scumtell

This is ridiculous. If there was a time when you considered that a reliable tell, it just shows you were playing with bad assumptions.

And why the hell WOULDN'T I assume cult speculation when Amrun failed to make it clear that her reasoning was due to Starbuck's past actions as cult when she first posted?

Because only an idiot would claim that saying the word cult is equivalent to cult speculation. I'm asking you why the hell you assume cult speculation when there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of any cult speculation. You're jumping from A to C and completely ignoring B. When asked to show B, you're just harping on C being so bad that you don't have to bother with B.

@Steve-
RNG generally stands for random number generator meaning the vote was a random vote.

Why did you choose to claim D1 being completely unprompted? Not that this is necessarily a scum tell I simply don't get your motivation.
Why did you claim your role power without claiming what character you were?

GreyIce can answer the first one, but as for the second, claiming his name would be unnecessary except if people doubted his claim and needed the name claim to justify flavor. He really doesn't need to share that.

On the other hand, sharing aspects of how his restriction affects investigative roles has important impacts on what those roles can conclude from investigation results. It also significantly helps us in evaluating future claims and determining what happened late in the game. Sharing this information openly, instead of forcing it to be painfully extracted also helps out potential investigators without forcing them to reveal themselves and seek clarifications.

[Kast]

@Noc-
You are posts aren't flowing well. Initially you objected that my reads are hypocritical for not including a vote. Now you admit votes aren't necessary, but conflate this with an unrelated statement that fluff is different from reads. Using my explicitly declared uncertainty about Grey is false evidence; my reads on Grey are NOT what we were discussing in the first place.

Also, you seem very against Grey's claim, and if you are...why aren't you voting him?

This is more silliness resulting from Grey's initial flailing. Grey accused me of attacking him for fake claiming. That never happened.

I suggest you read again or read more carefully if you think the only thing I've posted is calling Grey a VI and discussing old games.

@Ace-
If you're going to bother quoting context, you should take the extra time to read the context.

If you believed the statement in bold why did you feel the need to do the italic statement.

I felt the need because people like you (and I suspect Candlejack as well) are going to be dense and fallaciously claim that thinking someone is joking is equivalent to thinking the person is seriously fake claiming.

Also the bold statement is a lie:

The bold statement is false. As you quoted, I explicitly asked whether GreyIce was

SERIOUS

or not. If he was not being serious, then his claim was clearly opening game joking (ie. it is meaningless). If he was being serious, then there exists possibilities of telling the truth or fake claiming. Nowhere have I ever suggested or implied the latter; rather I have explicitly indicated the former is more likely due to the demonstrable nature of his claim.

And I can't find where you explicitly contrasted anything.

Sounds like a personal problem

(You just quoted it, so I'm not buying it if you pretend you did not see/understand it)

@GreyIce-
Posts like this make it seem like you really don't care to play this game any more than to insult and belittle people who disagree with your current set of beliefs. You haven't posted anything significant or relevant aside from making a claim. Change that please.
P-Edit- Joking to be masons with CJ doesn't count as posting anything significant.

Spoiler: If I thought it would be helpful, I'd be pursuing this. On re-read it's just GreyIce trying to distract town from playing so he can continue having fun screwing with town.

If someone isn't KILLED at night, why would I watch/track to them?

We don't know what your power is. If someone is nightkilled and protected, why should any of us think you WOULDN'T track/watch to them? Your claimed ability is to track/watch to people who are

nightkilled

not specifically people who

die

at night.
-To be clear, you are stating that you ONLY track/watch to people who actually die (and potentially anyone you target with unclaimed abilities (and because you probably don't know any better, don't clarify whether you have unclaimed abilities)). This is relevant in the case that a tracker or watcher sees you targetting someone who is NOT killed.
--In the event you are being careless and did not actually know or check with the mod, then please do so.

As for roleblocking all watchers by inserting my name, NO. Why the FUCK wouldn't I mention that if I did THAT?!?

"Why the FUCK [did]n't [you] mention that"? It looks like you have no reservations against sharing that info now. Why would you think we know how your claimed power works, especially given you claimed something different from what you actually meant AND you refused to answer questions on it?

Also, explain your reasons for initially voting me since you clearly have no problem answering my questions.

@Noc/Jack/Malthusis-
Given he was

joking

and not

seriously fake claiming

, do you intend to keep your votes?

@Jack-
What is the point of voting GreyIce? He obviously wasn't telling the truth, but it's not like he had any expectation of successfully deceiving the town. You seem to have a hair trigger for voting people first and thinking later. Please don't be an end game liability.

[Kast]

@Noc-
To be clear, you are ignoring my post rather than responding to the point. You are also abandoning your previous position and simply saying I am scum for not placing a vote; despite having reads on multiple players which you admit to reading. You are also taking the position that a null-read/declaration is equivalent to a non-existent read/declaration.

I'll let you know who is scum and who you should be voting for when I am ready.

Your continued insistence that I hate GreyIce remains as wrong now as it was before. It sounds like you are grasping to that as a false justification for your vote.

@GreyIce-
If you are finished hyping yourself up and deliver a reasonable point on Noc, then I'll re-evaluate whether you are contributing anything to this game. At the moment, you still have done nothing but distract people from scum hunting.

@Surye-
Welcome to the game. Do you have anything more to add and/or thoughts about anything else?

Also, excusing yourself from your position by claiming to not read old grudges allows you to mischaracterize my position. I was one of the few players who defended GreyIce and was willing to engage in discussion with him despite his behavior. He was just as unhelpful and intentionally hostile in that game as this one, but I got a strong VI-town read from it. If you're going to bother using the linked game as an excuse, get it right.

@Stevie Votes/Criticisms-
I'm not really buying the case on him. He's coming across pretty genuinely as a n00b player. I'm slightly disappointed though since I'd expect scum to quickly and readily jump on Stevie-n00b-town; but Vollkan and Ghostwriter both read plausibly as legit town avoiding the obviously crap leading wagons.

@Noc-
Pot, meet kettle.

FYI, I'm not liking your evasion, inconsistency, or repeated misrepresentations despite clarifications/corrections. I'm also not liking your eagerness to appease others (ie. Grey switch/Kast switch), nor your attempts to egg on myself and Grey to waste more time.

@Spyrex-
I'd like more posts from you. A bit more sanity in this game would be great. If you're sane town, that would be even better.

P-Edit-
Pom- I'm saddened to see more votes on someone who is so easily a mislynch magnet.

@Mod-

Can we have prods on Kawaii, C-Worl, and kanyeknowsbest? Thanks

[Kast]

Hmm, screwed up the tag, but it should be clear from context.

[Kast]

I'm pretty sure the vibes I'm getting are anti-town rather than scum.

This to a degree. I don't want to give GI an Anti-Town-VI get-out-of-jail-free pass, but I'm sure we'll find a good lynch candidate today (to be clear, this isn't ruling out GI if he posts something damning in future).

@Amrun-

Spoiler: Prior to post #139

Obviously because I'm incompetent scum making elementary slips to prevent easy mislynch wagons :p

You're misreading what I posted. Stevie's playstyle and the fact he is a n00b to mafia (and certainly to MS) make a town-Stevie an inherent mislynch magnet. The possibility of scum-Stevie exists (either as a genuine n00b or just playing that card), but I think his behavior so far hasn't been very helpful in discerning between the two.

Given Stevie's veteran claim, I'm slightly surprised he continues playing as he does. It does reduce the likelihood of scum-Stevie as a genuine n00b, but overall does not change my read on him.

@Ace-

firstly you asked if he was joking,

which is not contrasting anything,

just asking a question.

Italics indicate where you get lost. I'm slightly relieved that you took the "I'm oblivious" tack rather than pretending that my question does not EXPLICITLY ask a clarification between (ie. CONTRAST between) SERIOUS and NOT-SERIOUS (ie. JOKING).

You don't even appear to consider grey scummy, so why are you wasting your time with this crap about him in the first place?

Spoiler: Given that EVERY SINGLE POST I addressed to GreyIce reiterated my reasons for pursuing, I must conclude you are not paying attention or not trying very hard

@Greyice-
How about you

cut the crap and play the game?

Otherwise,

answer the questions and get back to playing the game

.

But

please answer the questions already.

@GreyIce-

Answer:

-[D]oes your power ALSO prevent a watcher from seeing the ACTUAL culprit? (This should be a no-brainer to share if you're seriously claiming)
-Would your ability false track to protected and/or kill immune targets (ie. failed kill attempts)?

If you think answering hurts town, explain.

Once he answered the questions, I EXPLICITLY NOTED that further pursuit was a waste of time, though I still hope he'll shape up and join us in finding scum (or pretending to if he is scum).

@drew-
-GI is also potentially a mislynch magnet. I said as much in my second post of the game.
-I mourn more for the death of a friendly-innocent than an intentional-jerk/ass-innocent. Games are just more fun with the former than the latter.
-I'll place a vote when I'm ready. Don't worry

@GreyIce-
-Noc immediately voting for a claimed mason was stupid.

Spoiler: Grey's explanation for how it is a scum claim is equally stupid.

The "flying autopilot" with "no town thought processes" statement isn't relevant to the explanation and is fluff.

Since others jumped aboard the

contradiction

angle, that bears more attention:
Post 100 expresses implicit doubt that a player would be both mason AND miller, then follows with an ambiguous question expressing either shock/incredulity OR disbelief. In context, it would seem to be disbelief. Taken together with post 103, in which he explicitly lists dual motives for both a mason and a non-mason GI, it should be clear post 100 wasn't expressing belief that GI was actually a mason miller. This is a misrepresentation of Noc.

-Prematurely demanding a claim != rolefishing. Agreed that Stevie shouldn't be pressing for a role name, but why misapply terms when you can simply state what actually happened? You could also make things much clearer and save everyone a lot of time by answering direct questions directly.

force him out of his comfort zone as scum.

Lulz. Cute

@Noc-
You just follow the prevailing wind at all turns...
I'm slightly dubious that my post 128 could have genuinely done anything significant in helping you reach your conclusion in 173. It certainly wasn't much different from before you placed your vote.

@Stevie Wagon-
This is interesting; wagon analysis of this should be fruitful if it goes all the way (regardless of flip).

@Ace-

Kast hasn't changed his playstyle at all...I would hardly call not caving in to the pressure of 4-5 votes anything to make Kast look town.

Strongly agree with this. Noc running away to a "safe" lynch doesn't reflect well on him.

At the same time, Ace looks like he's happy to park his vote where a lynch is unlikely and he can continue the day tunneled and avoiding participation in anything else. If Stevie is town, I'm sure Ace is looking forward to boasting that he wasn't on the Stevie wagon. The Ace/Noc interaction reads as potential distancing/chiding.

Hmm, tomorrow I'll prolly iso-re-read everyone and summarize my thoughts thus far.

[Kast]

I'll have my larger post with breakdown of reads up tonight. Skimming through and trying to answer any outstanding points atm:

@Starbuck-
Yeah, I answered the question. You may have missed it since it was in spoiler tags.

Lets just say if Stewie gets lynched and I die instead pay attention.

If you think your death is very likely, take the chance to share more thoughts/info as needed. Also, I did not do anything to cause your PM/whatever. Further, it seems unlikely that the culprit would claim in any case, especially not when you imply whatever was done is negative/harmful.

-I'm amused that ace reacts to being called out by basically saying, "Look at me! I'm pushing a counter-wagon and interested in doing something!"

-I'll keep Amrun in mind in my re-read/summary; on the surface I'm feeling neutral as far as affiliation, but I may be biased since it feels like she keeps agreeing with me. I don't have the best opinion of most of her attackers though, so that'll probably affect my read.

[Kast]

Summary thoughts on players with the notes in the spoiler. I've added a category to what I normally do (Pro-Town? / Affiliation / PlayStyle & Affability)

Spoiler: ace5993 / Active Lurk, Not Contributing (Slightly Anti-Town) / Neutral Leaning Scummy / Stubborn but not obnoxiously so

-Obviously Crap-RVS vote on Spyrex falsely claimed as serious
--Fluff posts to "defend" Spyrex vote sounds like excusing himself to stay off the radar (active lurk)
--Drops this once he finds a "better" place to park and hide
-Jumped to Kastwagon looking for another place to park an obvious crap-vote
--Weak attempt at semantics argument fails. Mostly seems like more fluff to mask his lurking
--The following posts mostly are dual topic of Kast-wagon + secondary topic
-Calls Stevie scum but refuses to vote; gut says he's pushing a mislynch while keeping his hands clean
--First relevant attempt to hunt scum. Immediately trashed by discarding it and inconsistently claiming Stevie is contributing (FYI-posting scumtells is NOT contributing to the game)
--Convoluted theoretical fluff to defend himself and get Zeln1k off his back
--Avoid's drew's point and tries to get drew off his back
-Noc case actually has some decent points, but they're presented as excuses for a flip and haven't been pushed as a reason for others to vote Noc
--Fairly apt description of ace's and drew's positions, except ace still hasn't addressed the point of how to determine which wagon is most beneficial. Calling out Noc is good, but reads like scum warning a buddy.
---drew essentially says the scummiest wagon is the most beneficial since it's most likely to be pressuring scum
--This is an interesting contrast with this. After adamantly insisting he won't move his vote unless Kast changes his play, he moves his vote. I'd bet me calling him out and another half dozen players expressing suspicion of him may have motivated the move.
--Willingness to switch to Amrun (and lack of dedication to Noc wagon) stand in contrast to ace's previously stated self-belief about wagoning the best person for getting a reaction regardless of scumminess of the suspect. His principles seem to have been abandoned in favor of trying to look like he is contributing to the game.

Spoiler: Amrun / Active and Engaged, Generally Reasonable (Pro-town) / Neutral Leaning Town / Fun to play with-the buddying is an ego-boost

-Inquisitive and willing to take positions on things and seek info/clarification for points.
-Cult comment was harmless (unfair to Starbuck, but harmless to the game as a whole) and taken way out of proportion.
--Question to morph about cults was odd given the pressure on Amrun for mentioning cults in the first place, but she withdrew it of her own volition so it's null.
-Initially expressed slight suspicion of my reaction to GI, but followed and accepted my explanations.
--It looks like that initial suspicion has been used to attack Amrun for being hypocritical and she's altenated between not thinking it's a valid scumtell against Kast but also not wanting to call me pro-town.
--Ultimately she's held a pretty consistent position toward me as detailed here.
-Case on Lobster started fairly weak but not unusual for a D1 case
--Objection to multiscum speculation is solid
--Talking up Stevie while avoiding the wagon is also solid
-Minor comment disliking Pom's post is a plausible interpretation but not the immediate one. Seems like hunting.
--On initial read, I had the impression that Vollkan's posts to Amrun were more accurate/reasonable. On re-read, they're talking past each other:
---Vollkan is reasonably correct that Pom (or any player) expressing an early game null read is not inherently scummy
---Despite this, Amrun is also within reason to point out that Pom's post could be scum setup for fence-sitting
-Case on Noc is fair
--Except this part which is just confirmation bias.
-Position on the Stevie wagon is a bit odd on surface level, but I think that's due to Amrun sheeping (not in a bad way) my n00b read
--Being against the wagon because Noc is on it is pure silliness.
--This strongly reads like Amrun is sheeping my read on Stevie (either without realizing or without wanting to say so). This confirms it as it's a paraphrase of my position here in more words.
--@Pom - Amrun is right here. If you re-read she never actually states suspicion of Stevie, rather in #209 reads far more as an expression of suspicion of Noc and his support of the Stevie wagon while not attacking the Stevie wagon itself. It's like, "I understand why townies might wagon Stevie, but I will not join them because Noc is on the wagon". It's ambiguous whether Amrun would join if Noc was NOT on the wagon, but that's clarified shortly after. It seems like Pom's issue is she's reading #209 as saying Amrun would be on Stevie wagon if Noc was not on it; in that case it would be contradictory.

Spoiler: animorpherv1 / Inactive Lurky / Neutral / Not enough posts

Nothing is out of the ordinary, but then again there's almost nothing posted. Needs to step up and contribute some more.

Spoiler: Antifinity / Low Activity, the Content is not bad / Neutral / I like the posts he's made, more would be better

First post has a bit of a "feel the waters" to avoid causing ripples sense to it. Later posts this disappears, but there's just not a lot of them.

Spoiler: Candle Jack / Initially active, recently he's disappeared; Some good thoughts mixed with lots of irrelevant distractions (Neutral) / Neutral / Unstable player who acts (and votes) recklessly

-Cult vote is ridiculous and opportunistic. Major waste of time and distraction for town.
-Obvious OMGUS on Kast.
--The post includes some valid points and some nonesense distractions
-Again there is a mix of solid observations with nonesense distractions.
--Posts to LC were valid and reasonable
--Posts to me directly avoids most of my main points and tries to misrepresent the points he is willing to engage. Completely avoids explaining why Amrun's cult mention was bad in favor of describing improbable doomsday scenarios where cult speculation destroys the town
-Overreacts again to GreyIce's mason claim. Also, from this point, CandleJacks posts are noticably different and far more detached from the game than before.
-Switch to LC is reasonable, but the stated trigger is obviously false and opposite. The switch is clearly a result of the need to unvote GreyICE, rather than the unvoting being a result of a need to vote LC.
-Switch to Stevie is plausible, but also right in the window for scum joining a Stevie lynch (either as a mislynch or as a resignation bus)

Spoiler: Celebloki / Lurker / Neutral / Single post is very superficial

Celebloki needs to join us and post more.

Spoiler: drewoftherushes / Light Activity but Participating (Slightly Pro-Town) / Neutral / Refreshingly light playstyle amidst some dense posters

-He is taking some positions, asking some questions, and following through on the answers. Posting density is lighter than others and definitely more reactive than proactive, but every game needs it's mix of chiefs and indians.
-If drew has any reads/thoughts he has not shared, then I would like to hear them.
-More posts at the same density would be a plus.

Spoiler: GhostWriter / Tunnelled hard on Stevie, but his posts are reasonable / Neutral Leaning Pro-Town / Engaged and active but narrow focus

-Reasonable attack on Stevie and early enough that the vote looks townie
--Seems to genuinely believe what he's posting. However, he also seems to be ruling out mistakes/newb playstyle without cause.
--Case primarily seems to be:
---Stevie is Wishy Washy on Kast - He is, but I think this is definitely the n00b in him
---Stevie pushes a bad question despite several players telling him it is a bad question - I don't see the scum motive in stubbornly pursuing the question...Stevie reads a LOT like a n00b sulking because the question he was proud of didn't get answered
---Stevie is misrepping that GreyICE didn't answer - this point itself misreps Stevie who claims GreyICE AVOIDED his question by asking a question. Avoiding a question IS not answering a question. Not liking the evasion is perfectly reasonable
-GW is NOT commenting on anything other than Stevie and this needs to change

Spoiler: GreyICE / Irrational, Stubborn, Reckless (Anti-Town) / Neutral (mild bad town) / Schizophrenic and Overly Unnecessarily Hostile to others

-Goes out of his way to be difficult and anti-town
-No interest in discussion; rather prefers to ridicule and insult others (pretty much everyone who disagrees with him)
-When his screwing around got him some votes he faked a scumtell on Noc to pretend he was playing the game
--Attempts to excuse himself and hide his faked scum tell by deflecting attention to Stevie wagon. This attempt fails so he posts mediocre fluff.

Spoiler: kanyeknowsbest / Lurker-Inactive / Neutral / Needs more posts

No posts to speak of.

Spoiler: Kawaii / Lurker-Inactive / Neutral / Needs more posts; I expect decent posts from Kawaii

No posts to speak of.

Spoiler: LobsterCatapult / Active and Engaged, though uses some quirky logic at times / Mildly Scummy / Reads hypocritical at times and also a bit of a follower

-Opening posts read inquisitive, third post is where the sheeping starts.
-Here the sheeping continues but is combined with a wacky vote on Malthusis* (Malthusis isn't exactly a model townie but the vote is still quirky).
-Switch to Noc is similarly hypocritical and (bad) quirky reaction to Noc's vote*
-LC pushing Stevie without voting feels very much like scum trying to keep her hands clean.
--The speculation on multiscum was unprompted and mildly scummy (I'd have expected CandleJack to jump all over this since it's similar to but significantly more serious than the cult mention).
-Fixation on the misquote of me calling Stevie a definite mislynch* is also quirky.
*-It seems like LC is looking for a concrete and objectively unusual post/vote to use as justification for a case.
-Also dislike the obvious attempt to goad Amrun into tying LC to myself (the calling me town and defending me earlier starts to look like some serious buddying in light of this).

Spoiler: malthusis / Lurker-Inactive / Neutral / Not enough posts

His singular appearance to vote GreyICE is bad, and he needs to post more.

Spoiler: Nocmen / Opportunistic and likes using Bad Logic / Scummy / He reads like he is capable of much better town play than he is giving and I'd look forward to such a game in future

-Opens with a crap case on Kast that is maintained until he finds an excuse wagon to jump to
--Flip flops from attacking my lack of vote, to claiming I have no reads, to admitting I have reads but re-attacking my lack of vote
--Throughout this, he keeps egging on GreyICE and Kast to try to get us to attack each other. This includes several misreps insisting that I am suspicious of GreyICE despite multiple corrections of his misrep.
-Probable-Scum asking town what is allowed
-Silly premature overreaction to GreyICE being an anti-town VI.
--Tries to appease GreyICE when I don't concede to him and people call out his silly overreaction.
-Joins in on the Stevie hate, while indicating token suspicion on Kast. Looks very much like prep for jumping off a bad wagon.
--This is a blatant BS excuse for jumping wagons to the leading one.
--This and the preceding and following posts read like "Everyone look at me on the Popular Wagon, and Amrun must be scum since she's NOT on the popular wagon!"
Aside: I suspect Noc is using this fairness to buddy me, and as a friendly gesture it is appreciated, but I assume he'll understand if I don't let that impact my read of him.

Spoiler: Pomegranate / Mostly Solid Stuff-Surprisingly more posts-content than I recalled but could do with more (Neutral Leaning Pro-Town) / Neutral / Solid Play that I expect from Pom, but would be better with more presence

-41 isn't anywhere near as bad as people claim.
-Pom's addition to the Stevie wagon is where the almost definite town ends and where I'd start expecting bus votes (to be clear, I'm not saying the 4th voter is definitely scum).
-Case on Amrun is consistent and similar to case on Stevie, but sounds like a misread.
--Not voting because of Noc is bad.
--However, it's a misread to assume Amrun was going to vote Stevie if Noc was absent the wagon.
-I could do with some thoughts on Noc and LC (thoughts on others are also welcome).

Spoiler: SpyreX / Some Solid Pro-Town posting initially, then kinda disappeared until the PM claim (Neutral) / Neutral / Interesting Player when active, but lacking in activity at the moment

-Summary kinda contains my thoughts. Plus I'm getting tired.

Spoiler: Starbuck / A couple Solid Posts and a lot of Inactivity / Neutral / More Posts please

-Ignoring the initial stuff, Starbuck has had 2 very solid and substantial posts. More is very welcome.

Spoiler: StevieT92 / Lots of n00bie and careless posts / Neutral / Reads like a n00b despite claims to be a veteran

-Short of it is I read n00b/weak player and I'm wary that his wagon is semi-scum driven to capitalize on his weak playstyle. I don't read any of the cases as being particularly scummy as opposed to being a n00b.

Spoiler: Surye / Lurky-Inactive / Neutral / If he flakes, it'll be 3/3 (although one of those I replaced in after he had flaked)

I don't expect much and replacement looks like a good option.

Spoiler: vollkan / Solid Analytical Play (Pro-Town) / Neutral Leaning Town / Solid Play and Pretty Reasonable

-Asks questions, posts reads with explanations, follows through. I don't agree with some of his conclusions and a few points seem to miss the target, but overall solid play.
--If anything, I think he holds on to some things a bit too much
--The point assignment seems pretty subjective (which isn't necessarily a problem)

Spoiler: ZeL1nK / Similar to Drew, Light Posts but Active (Pro-Town) / Neutral / Concise but engaged

-Pretty solid play on iso read.
--Some good direct questions
--Clear statement of several reads/positions
--Engaged in most discussions/items
--Could do with more follow up

Spoiler: C-Worl - Getting Replaced

Nothing to work from.

@Couple Questions for LC-

I think you being on Stevie's wagon is trying to get you townie points if stevie flips town, if not (unlikely) you can always refer to your post that you ISOed him for, and be like. seriously, he was looking this scummy, this is how i got my vote.

Please explain/elaborate on this. I have a couple points that I need clarification on pending your explanation.

i do think that some people are misrepping him, like you, in terms of him posting his history on this site when he was explicitly asked what it was.

im not against quicklynching, but when a wagon does materlize this quickly on d1, i will definitely suspect there is some distancing/bussing/crap votes on it. like yours, and ill have to look into others.

Also explain this. It starts sounding like you are addressing me, but then changes to someone who is not me. The latter statement is clearly not to me since I am not voting Stevie; but your audience is extremely unclear.

Also, it's mostly a token since I don't see anything overturning the Stevie-wagon at this point, but VOTE: Noc

[Kast]

@GreyICE-
You are wrong.

@Surye-
This is one game I was referring to. The other I was mistaken. If you flake this one, it'll be 2/2. Good to see you are checking the thread despite being inactive. Follow through on your promise would be welcome.

@Zeln1k-
Stevie is playing like a n00b/weak player. He's unfamiliar with basic mafia theory and standard terminology. His analysis and logic are very poor, but nothing in it points scum; rather there's a lot of new/bad player tells.

@CandleJack-
-If you think there's something game relevant to post about my playstyle or any of my reads/positions, by all means post it. If you think it's irrelevant, then don't waste our time.

Also, here's an assignment for you, Kise:

Was this meant for me?

@Zito-
Disagreement != scum tell. You should know better than that

Also, do you seriously think drew is a reasonable lynch today, or is that vote mostly for show?

@Amrun-

if he will join me in wagoning Lobster or Nocmen.

Also, it's mostly a token since I don't see anything overturning the Stevie-wagon at this point, but VOTE: Noc

@Noc-

There are no solid town reads.

Solid town reads on D1 are silly. "Solid town reads" on D1 based solely on 1-2 RVS posts that are carried through the rest of the game are even sillier. Most of the "solid town reads" people are throwing around have been "Player X is always a good player and I agree with his post on P1/P2". They're silly but mostly harmless; though if they're maintained to future days without adjusting for newer posts they can become dangerous.

Is there a problem if I actually ask and attack people who I'm not currently voting for?

There's a problem when you use your suspicion of Amrun as if it was a defense against my case/reads on you. My case/reads do not include your suspicion of Amrun as one of it's points except to emphasize that you are more concerned with appeasing others and blending with town, than actually finding/lynching scum.

He reads like he is capable of much better town play than he is giving and I'd look forward to such a game in future.

That makes it sounds like You think I'm town

, but don't like the way I'm acting.

Why the hell would you think this? That's absolutely, completely 100% against everything I posted. Your posts show you are

capable

of giving good town play, but despite being capable of it you are NOT giving it (ie. you are probably not town).

[Kast]

EBWOP-
@Zeln1k-
Stevie is unfamiliar with terminology and has a some...odd interpretations...of basic theory.

[Kast]

I need to catch up. I skimmed some but more in depth thoughts later (I'm hoping we don't get another 8-10 pages of posts every weekend...that's gonna make this a pain).

For now, I'm good with a Lobster lynch. Ace and Noc are both still in the runnings as well.
VOTE: LC

There's a ton of group think going on, and I'm sure there's some scum mixing in with the group. I'm gonna hope/trust that the voting blocs don't get too silly and/or don't start giving each other free passes.

If there's questions for me, please link or repost, I'll get to them when I catch up tonight.

[Kast]

Just FYI, I wasn't able to read much last night, and won't have time tonight. I'll definitely have time tomorrow.

[Kast]

@Stevie wagon-
Glad to see the wagon disperse. It still strongly looks like a mix of town-scum jumping aboard an acceptable wagon not because Stevie was actually scummy, but rather because he's a weak player who can't defend himself very well. Even his refusal to claim was hardly scummy; it's simply anti-town play that tends to get a player lynched. The townies on the Stevie wagon were likely getting themselves hung up on the bad/anti-town play and fallaciously convincing themselves that anti-town/bad play = scummy play.

enough of his analysis seems motivated to support theses that I don't think are very plausible that I am suspicious

How does this differ at all from my behavior in BatB1? All of my analysis support the conclusions I reach; and in both this game and that you agreed with some things and disagreed with others.

GreyICE, which, while reasonable questions, seemed to be presented in lieu of other game participation, if that makes any sense.

An issue I have with this is that you don't address whether I avoided other game participation or not. There's plenty of posts to form an opinion on whether your initial feeling proved true or not.

@Tajo-
Your pattern is kinda old. Each game we play you start by saying you hate me for my wallotexts. Then you proceed to wall it up yourself and admit I'm town when you finally read my posts.

@Malthusis-
Overall, he's an acceptable lynch, primarily for his initial GreyICE overreaction vote and for his current Surye "I've gotta get people off my case" vote.

I also have good gut feeling that this is probably a mislynch, but unless Stevie has one hell of a claim (and now, don't do any retarded stalling!) I won't mind him being lynched at all.

It looks like a lot of people are harping over this line. It's not anywhere near as blatantly scummy as has been proposed. On the face of it, this simply states he thinks Stevie's behavior is extremely anti-town and if he gets lynched for it, then he deserves it, regardless of affiliation. It could potentially indicate Malthusis setting up to go with the prevailing attitude (which would be a bit scummy).

All you are doing are just following the crowd, picking out whatever quotes support yours, trying to break town trust between townies, instead of actually trying to find scum.

Are you describing your own post? LLD/GreyICE's Surye attack is just as bad now that you're sheeping it as it was when they first pushed it forward.

@Town Bloc-

As town,

you want to get as many town

(hopefully mutual)

reads as possible

, not vote any of them, and collaborate and hunt down the scum that way.

This summarizes my disagreement with the prevailing town bloc philosophy. It reads like a core scum philosophy, ESPECIALLY the underlined portion. As town we should be searching for SCUM primarily. Town reads are helpful along the way, but giving players free passes simply because they agree with you or because they made a few pro-town sounding posts is BAD PLAY. This game has plenty of players who have solid scum games where they play just as if they were actually town. That alone makes searching for town-reads INSTEAD OF searching for scum reads a bad idea. With the way people are handing out town reads simply based on 1 or 2 posts that they like, this is even worse.

If a group of players all agree on a case and all decide to vote on that case; that's great. When a group of players decides to vote on a case, irresepective of it's merits and simply do it because the most vocal players are also doing it; we're just letting scum blend in and avoid responsibility.

Because if there's a talented and vocal scum in that group, he or he could have control of six votes. That's a good thing?

This, but also just if there's an idiot and the rest just follow the group think. Like what's happening now with LC pretty much getting a free pardon.

Of the players in the bloc, I'm liking LLD the least; she pretty much just called all the other members townies based on...

playing with them before?

; sheeped/buddied/whatever you want to call it the reads of her proclaimed townies, then took some WTF?! potshots at her "approved" scum list.

@Surye-
LLD's attacks on Surye re:GI are a huge misrepresentation. (Lulz, go ahead and put me down as his buddy for disagreeing with you ). GI's and Maltusis' attacks are similarly bad.

@Noc-
Goodpost, but you're prolly still scum.

[Kast]

@GI-
No

@LLD-

I gave reasons in my catchup for my town

False. You lie blatantly. You also try to lump two distinct criticisms into a single point; perhaps this helps you avoid addressing either?

You proclaimed 7 players town as of your "town list".
-If we STRETCH, we can pretend you provided 1 "reason" for thinking Iecrint slight town due to his catchup being "likable" (presumably scum post bad catchups?).
-If we STRETCH some more, we can pretend you declared GI town for claiming to be a miller.
-You posted a reason CJ is not town, but call him town ANYWAY (presumably because he is Tar).

Everyone else is town because they...posted?...gave you something to sheep?...????

Amrun is town for Page 4

GI is town for his claim.

SpyreX is glorious glorious town, and I'm happy for this.

Volkan is looking town.

Still though, I have a town read on the Candle Jack slot

Tajo is town

I have a slight town read on Iece now, but I will wait for further posting. I liked his catchup though.

[Kast]

she pretty much just called all the other members townies based on...

playing with them before?

;

I gave reasons in my catchup for my town

I don't need to explain my town reads. If I read someone as town, I just need to state "they're town". That's it.

Did you give reasons or do you not need to give reasons. Whining that I left out "Page #X" does not address the point and is a lame attempt to argue technicalities. Point is you declared your "townies" as townies with no reasoning provided; no indication whatsoever for why they are town except perhaps because they are who they are.

-Your scum reads are sheeped from the same people you declared as town. What was unclear about that in any of my posts?

-Whining that I didn't quote your scum reads is a weak attempt to combine and defend your lack of town-read justifications. I did not say that you did not post any scum justifications. You are arguing a straw man.

To be honest, your request sounds like, "I don't want to defend myself, instead I'm going to ask you to post a huge wall/list that I'll ignore and other people will dismiss as tl;dr". If genuinely think your request helps advance the game in any way, then please say so clearly. Otherwise I'm just treating it like the attempted distraction that it is.

@Spyrex-

If a group of players all agree on a case and all decide to vote on that case; that's great.

When a group of players decides to vote on a case, irresepective of it's merits and simply do it because the most vocal players are also doing it; we're just letting scum blend in and avoid responsibility.

The italicized portion is what is not happening. There's plenty of the latter going on, each and every time members of your proclaimed bloc and/or outsiders who want in on the bloc excuse themselves to vote or unvote with the express reason being they're trusting the other bloc members despite not agreeing to the read. It's ridiculously anti-town and irresponsible.

You're capable of reading the thread and if you'll bother turning off the group think and doing a cursory scan over recent posts, you'll have to admit EXACTLY THAT has happened and is continuing. If you insist on making me do the work for it, I can.

Explain your quote stripping comment. I provided EXACTLY what I called out LLD for. Her defense is to abandon her previous claim that she provided reasons and instead claim she DOES NOT NEED to give reasons.

[Kast]

@Spyrex-
I'd guess scum exist within the bloc in the same ratio that they exist in any randomly selected sample of players. I don't have any particular scum reads on individual members of your/LLD's proclaimed town bloc; most of you have been playing in a pretty neutral/null range.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

Does that mean she is scum? Not necessarily. She certainly hasn't been as scummy as ace, LC, Noc, or Malthusis. What I've pointed out is more secondary tells; identification of what could potentially be scummy behavior but does not in and of itself indicate that LLD is particularly likely to be scum. I also want to be clear that LLD is NOT the sole participant in such behavior. Part of my focus on LLD is simply a penchant for engaging people who try to engage with BS.

That reminds me to post/update my lynch preference ordering (entries within each heading do not indicate ordinal preference)

Preferred Lynch:

Nocmen
ace5993
LobsterCatapult
malthusis

Acceptable Lynch:

Candle Jack
Lady Lambdadelta
drewoftherushes

Ambivalent:

GreyICE
Antifinity
populartajo
Kawaii
Surye
Celebloki
ZeL1nK
Pomegranate
GhostWriter

Beats No Lynch:

vollkan
SpyreX
Iecerint
Starbuck
Amrun
StevieT92

Loses to No Lynch:

If you have anyone in this category other than yourself or perhaps a mason buddy, then you're failing at mafia

Kast

P-Edit: @LC-
You are assigning a lot of motive to my posts that just isn't there and just isn't supported by what I've actually posted.
I'll try to take some time tomorrow to re-outline my reasons for suspecting you. At the moment, it's pretty similar to the thoughts I originally listed for why I listed you as probable scum. If you have an objection with me listing you as scum, please address the reasons I provided.

[Kast]

I seriously think you are town stoking the flames that will end only a single way if you keep at it.

I'm aware I'm probably bruising egos. I'm assuming most players are good enough to separate a bruised ego from a voting decision (if they aren't then all the more reason for calling that out). I appreciate the concern, but I only seeing it end

badly

for me if I hit a nerve on hiding-scum and they decide to NK me for it. And that's not actually that bad.

@Kawaii-
Your question is vague. By wagon are you referencing the "town voting bloc", the LC wagon, the malthusis wagon, something else?

Preferred Lynch:
Nocmen
ace5993
LobsterCatapult
malthusis

Acceptable Lynch:
Candle Jack
Lady Lambdadelta

This is my lynch preference. Also, I'm dropping drew down one category.
-At this point, any participation beats the alternative, so feel free to jump in to any issue and proceed from there.
-Could you sign heads please?

[Kast]

@Noc-
I looked back at my list this morning and couldn't recall why drew was in that category in the first place. I moved him to reflect that.

@GreyICE-

that anyone who vocally disagrees with you and criticizes your reads or play is suffering from a 'bruised ego' / 'is a bad player' / 'is arrogant' / 'doesn't like being taken down a peg.' This is from our first disagreement on page 1.

If by anyone, you mean GreyICE and Candlejack, then you are correct that I have criticized this many times. It stands as true now as it did when I first posted it. If you are extending this to multiple other players, then please back up your claim.

CJ has been the primary player using the crap-logic tack that anyone disagreeing with him is scum (I was his sole exception that he tried milking for credit, until now).

@CJ-
-Disagreeing with someone's playstyle is not a scumtell. If you dislike my criticism of your playstyle, how about addressing my criticisms instead of just saying "anyone who questions me is scum".
-Clarify what you dislike about my list of reads (aside from your irrational devotion to Noc). How does it look like a scum list? Content, format, timing, consistency...?
-Calling me scummy for

disagreeing

with your townread that you've claimed is based on spotting a tell/crumb/softclaim is ridiculous. If you think any of the points on Noc are bad, then address those. As yet, you've gone from saying you saw something that shows Noc is town, to just saying Noc is obv-town, to saying anyone who even suspects Noc is scummy for suspecting him.

@Mod-
V/LA until Tuesday.

V/LA acknowledged
-K

[Kast]

Back from vacation and got a prod. I'll catch up and post again later.

[Kast]

Also, I'll go ahead and claim now before I finish catching up.

I'm Ritsuko Akagi. I'm a member of NERV. From my PM it's clear there is a faction of Angels in this game (no mention of any other scum faction).
-I also know there are is more than one town Magi Supercomputer in the game (I'm guessing three from flavor, but it's not specified).
-I have a day use ability. If my target is a Magi Supercomputer, then I will upgrade my target. The upgrade gives my target a 1-Shot Bulletproof starting the night I use it and a 1-Shot Angel Day-Cop for the following day. A successful upgrade will inform result in my target getting a PM on the following morning with info that he has a 1-Shot Day Cop. I will not be told if I succeeded or not.

I have not submitted my target yet. Since my ability is demonstrable

IF

I target a Magi Supercomputer and since I'm pretty sure I'll get NKed by the Angels tonight, I'd prefer if at least one supercomputer will step forward so I can use my power.

If people want to lynch me anyway, and/or no supercomputers want to out themselves, then let me know and I'll submit my action with a best guess. Just keep in mind after my flip that the Magi Supercomputers are confirmed town (but watch for scum fake- or counter-claiming them).

[Kast]

EBWOP:

1-Shot Bulletproof starting the night

*after*

I use it

[Kast]

Mostly caught up.

Nothing really stood out.

I see town voting for a scumbag that everyone has had in the back of their minds as scummy, and hasn't really wanted to say anything because a few people have him as town, and he bites the head off anyone who criticizes him, insults and belittles them, AND GETS THE FUCK AWAY WITH IT.

GreyIce is obviously still sore over the last game he was booted for and is taking it out on me since I mentioned it here. If you have any valid points from this game, please share them. Also, if you have a problem with any of my posts, explain the problem rather than just saying it's scummy.

I think Vollkan asked about GreyICE's three points. The point about LLD having no reasons for her town-reads is correct. The point about LLD sheeping her scum reads from the people she declared town is correct. The point about discrediting LLD for it is nonesense and doesn't even fit with his other complaints.

Some wagon analysis-
Lady Lambdadelta- Generally less rational player anyway. She's obviously OMGUSing because I called her out. Doesn't say much about affiliation.
GreyICE- His initial attack on me was due to being a VI and thinking I was fishing without really thinking it through. Since I responded by mentioning a game he was extremely upset and hurt by, he decided to stop playing the game and take out his frustrations pushing after me. It's null.
Antifinity- Potential scum wagon vote. It's been discussed pretty reasonably.
Iecerint- Don't really understand Iec's move. This is one of the key votes.
GhostWriter- This is the second key vote on the wagon. Without Iec and GW, this wasn't moving anywhere.
StevieT92- Opportunistic vote from VI/N00b. Doesn't tell us anything and is consistent with Stevie's play elsewhere.
LobsterCatapult- Opportunistic vote from one of today's lynch candidates. Null.
populartajo- Tajo's been as rabidly tunnelled as GI and also for no apparent reason. It is surprising and uncharacteristic.
ace5993- Returning to his old vote. Doesn't add anything new to his read. His vote being for a lynch rather than for pressure to make me react is a slight change from his previous stance.
SpyreX- Going with the bloc despite your personal beliefs? Exactly the problem with a voting bloc.

CJ's dancing the line. Initial vote and posts definitely looked to be taking advantage of my V/LA along with GI. The hesitance looks like preparation to distancing from a mislynch. Not liking it at all.

[Kast]

Ok, I'm going to submit CJ as my upgrade target. Some thoughts:
-He should get a PM tomorrow morning informing him that he has a 1-Shot Day Cop.
-I'm pretty positive I'll be killed tonight as there's no way scum would let me keep enabling/protecting day cops. When I flip, keep in mind that the supercomputers are town.
--CJ is either telling the truth or ridiculously ballsy scum. I'm inclined to believe he's actually one of the supercomputers since it would be suicidal to false claim as part of a 3 member mason group.
--The "town bloc" is still a bad idea and overall anti-town. It's somewhat mitigated in the event most of the members blindly trusting each other are actually alignment confirmed.

Also, if there's a people doctor, consider protecting me tonight please.

[Kast]

@GreyICE-

Spoiler: You are a waste of time

Your "points" you posted are unexceptionally crap-logic filled with misrepresentations and flat out lies. Discussion with you doesn't help determine your alignment because you are set on being as anti-town and as offensive/hostile/insulting as you can possibly be (and you have history of this as town). If you succeeded in quicklynching me while I was V/LA (as you attempted), you'd undoubtedly be getting lots of heat tomorrow, regardless of your true alignment, and certainly if you are actually town. I repeat, if you have a relevant point to discuss, then share it. I'm not going to ask you to "help" anymore because you clearly don't care to, everyone else seems fine with it, and who knows, maybe you're just incapable of helping.

The fact that you actually believe your wagon formed

mainly from people who are tunneling, playing bad, not rational, blah blah blah

should be a sign that MAYBE you can't read anything when it comes to people attacking you.

Instead of channeling GI, how about responding to what you actually disagree with?
-Generic dismissal of 11 reads by

referencing 3 of them

is invalid.
--Additionally, if you have a problem with any of my reads, share it. You've demonstrated capability and willingness to do so for other points.
---How is LLD's vote not an OMGUS vote?
---As far as telling someone they play bad, "Pot, meet kettle." If you disagree with any of my assessments of GreyICE's play (or anyone else) point it out and show what's wrong with it.
-Your vote was explicitly posted as an alternative to your preferred scum suspect Ace on condition that you get support for lynching Ace. This sudden, "I've always suspected Kast and have always had good reason for voting him because he's a terrible player" in response to a potential misunderstanding of my key vote comment reads overly defensive and insincere.
-It sounds like you don't understand what a key vote is. From context, it should be pretty clear what I meant. From context, it sounds like you are scared to have your vote called a key vote (implication that a key voter on the Kast wagon is somehow scummy?).

Without Iec and GW, this wasn't moving anywhere.

Spoiler: But if you need explanation

Iec and GW placed key votes which gave momentum to a wagon that was previously ignored as the rantings of a VI-GreyICE, and initially OMGUSing CJ who himself admitted that Kast's play read as a townie with a difference in playstyle, and Ace who has clearly been tunneling for the majority of the game until he was called on it. Being two non-town bloc members also makes you key votes since the "town voting bloc" itself is insufficient to lynch. The timing in particular makes your votes (5th and 6th on the wagon) both key votes.
This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the other voters have reasons (good or bad) for joining the wagon.

Spoiler: Please clarify what you don't understand about the sections of vote analysis you paraphrased

-Without Iec's and GW's support, it is unlikely that Stevie would have made an opportunistic switch.
-Likewise, LC would gain nothing in her defense by jumping to the Kast wagon if it wasn't going anywhere. She'd be better served jumping to Malthusis (

as she is likely to do now

PEDIT: as she has done...I wish I'd posted this sooner).
-Re-read Tajo in iso. I'll revise my read; he's not just tunnelling on me, but he's also clearly not reading the whole game and making a lot of posts before thinking about things. His entire case on my is "I like GreyICE and Kast disagreed with GreyICE => Kast is scum", "Kast wallposted => Kast is scum", and "Kast voted scummy LC => Kast is scum". Updated Tajo summary below.
-I don't understand your beef with my Ace read. You clearly understand why I think Ace is scummy and have expressed the same/similar views. Assuming you have no complaint with it, how does this figure at all into whether your vote was a key vote or not?
-Spyrex agreeing to a vote he doesn't personally agree with BECAUSE THERE IS SUPPORT and the "Town voting bloc" is doing it, EXEMPLIFIES that the prior votes were influential on his vote. If anything, this directly supports any assessment that your vote was a key vote.

Spoiler: Tajo Summary

Tajo has addressed 6 players as scummy/suspicious (with cursory mentions of 3 players that are inconclusive/not followed up):
Drew - Active lurking by posting IIoA; No other reasons but lots of mindless calls for a lynch
Kast - Disagreement w/GreyIce and posting walls; Same as before; LC tries to make Kast look good and Kast votes LC for being scummy; Aside from that, no other reasons, just more mindless calls for a claim/lynch
Stevie - Uses a null tell as a scum tell (ignores that it's CJ's point); Does not claim when he should; Ignoring that both of these are not scumtells, this is the point that shows clearest the difference between Tajo thinking and Tajo just posting without reading/thinking. Initially he mindlessly blasts away at Stevie to claim, but eventually he finally reads the thread and thinks about things which let's Tajo contribute some reasonable posts.
LC - Lobster reads as too calculating; Posts a case on Lobster after his "townies" let him know what they think of Lobster; Points on Lobster seem to be:
--Not voting CJ despite suspecting him (semi-valid; but the CJ suspicion wasn't that strong; potential weak tell)
--Not FOSing Kast despite FOSing CJ (Tajo ignores that Lobster did not find my actions scummy)
--Not voting Pom or Amrun despite suspecting them (Tajo ignores that people vote their top suspects but can

STILL

mention other scummy things)
--Not voting Stevie while pushing Stevie wagon (valid; LC pushes Stevie hard while trying to keep her hands clean)
--Multiscum speculation (valid)
--Not being crazy/rabid/rude toward Noc despite voting/suspecting him (ridiculous)
Malthusis - Slipping that he knows Stevie is town; Nothing much else
Zeln1k - Did not pursue a lead until after the major wagon ended

(role blocking would not be a possibility here since kast claims he targets at day)

Was there a point to mentioning this (or rather a non-blatantly-anti-town point)? FTR, I'm explicitly not stating whether or not roleblocking has any effect on me and I don't think any attempt to seek clarification helps town in any way whatsoever.

@Iec-

Spoiler: I don't understand your scum read on me

It seems to be:
-Kast's questions are valid and relevant, but could be scum active lurking instead of participation -

You seem to clearly understand and admit that I am not avoiding participation so why is this possibility being entertained?

-Does not expect town-Kast to attack a player for doing what GI did -

Admits and understands that Kast did not actually attack GreyICE

-Discredits Ace without reason -

Is this seriously a point? I lolled that Ace thinks his single vote with no effort at gaining more votes will somehow make scum-Kast panic and slip something.

-Amrun, who is one of Kast's town reads, posts that Kast's catchup alleviates her doubts -

How is this a scumtell? Firstly, it's Amrun's post not Kast's post. Secondly,

Iec

also posted that the exact same post from Kast alleviates his doubts too.

-

Concludes

that Kast is scummy because he could potentially be scummy. -

I don't understand this

-Ace-Kast potential scum-bussing/distancing link -

If Ace is actually scum, then how is Kast distancing discernible from Kast->Ace => Town->Scum?

Spoiler: I don't understand your vote switch to me

You have something like 4 suspects, the primary of whom seems to be Ace.
-For some reason, you follow a crap-case from GreyICE that is nothing new instead (and which at least for the LLD portion you agree with me about) of continuing to try to lynch Ace, for whom there is plenty of support and for whom you have no reservations about your scum reads.
-You mentioned moving votes at deadline; but that was nowhere near when you voted.

[Kast]

@Malthusis-
Yes, you should claim. You're a good lynch for today.

@Ace as Scum-
Lots of people are agreeing that Ace is scum, but for some reason everyone thinks Ace isn't lynchable today. Why...?

Malthusis is a good lynch. Ace is

also

a good lynch. They're both on the table. (For that matter LC is also still very much on the table and the people who jumped off when GI declared LC a non-town-bloc-approved candidate need to re-evaluate).

[Kast]

@Malthusis Claim-
Malthusis claim reads like an SK. In a large game, the value from killing an SK early by far outweighs the risk in letting him "play along" with town and "miss vig". If we lynch him D1 in a 25ish man game, that generally works out to an extra 3-4 days of game play for town.
-The flavor is off, as has been noted, and is typical for Kdub's large game safe-claims.
-Zeln1k's point about "targets" is irrelevant nitpicking
-Complete untargettability is already scummy, and put it on a

one-shot

vig? Not plausible
-Mod warning is null.

Dislike Spyrex's plan since I doubt we'd guaranteed ID 3 scum and I have no doubt it would be easy for Malthusis-SK to aim for the one he thinks is most townie. Additionally, we don't know how many kills and or manipulative roles are going to be running around tonight. HOWEVER, if Malthusis is not lynched today, I FULLY EXPECT him to shoot Ace.

Seriously though what scum goes SUP I AM VIG unless there's waaacky mechanics at play?

Normally, the disadvantage to scum claiming vig is that the real vig will kill them the following night. Scum claiming (and being) unkillable does not have this disadvantage. But he's more likely SK than Mafia anyway.

Docs should DEFINITELY consider protecting me tonight.

It's already done and I've announced that publicly...

@Noc-
The day-cop is an

Angel

Day Cop (CJ can confirm this tomorrow when he gets the power). It's a factional investigation.

@Vollkan-
You don't appear to assign townpoints and you don't appear to assign points based on claims. Are these factored anywhere?

I get frustrated by the notion that a player is only contributing if they are positively building a case - rather than investigating to see if there are grounds for suspicion (eg. by questioning people's motives) or by actively opposing an existing case/wagon that they perceive to be invalid.

Like this.

@Tajo-
My ability is called "Program".

VOTE: Malthusis

[Kast]

Catching up. Should get a post up later today/tonight.

[Kast]

Spoiler: Catchup thoughts

LLD's attack on Antifinity is silly. I'm sure everyone (including LLD) at least considered the possibility of recruiting (particularly the one of the Magi being recruited).

We know for certain that a Magi was targeted last night.

My ability is a day use. If anyone targeted CJ last night, it was not me.

However, as I said yesterday, this ability is some sort of convoluted "doc-cop-mason combo" which is imbalanced for scum and I still havent researched what kdubmod thinks about this. Also, Kasttown means that pretty much he should be dead by now unless someone messed with the kill, which i guess, is possible in night 1.

Im leaning to not believe the claim but day is still early and I have some research to do regarding kdub.

I'm also assuming that scum attempted to kill me but were blocked or I got protected.

Additionally, given that I survived the night (I expected to be dead), I need to reveal that I left out one detail from my ability. I cannot use it on the same person twice. If scum did not send a kill at CJ last night, then he still has his 1-Shot Bulletproof. I can't help him anymore AND I can't give him a second Day Cop. I can give both to another Supercomputer. I'll leave it up to CJ and his mason buddies to determine if they want to reveal another member or not. If they don't want to reveal, then I'll just make a best guess (I'll wait til later in the day to submit).

@Tajo RE: Malthusis-
Malthusis was an SK. Why are you talking about his buddies?

@LLD-
Trying too hard...Point 1 is reasonable, but the rest sounds like fluff to appear to be contributing.

@Spyrex/Scum-
Given Stevie's claim combined with CJ's investigation, I'm good with this lynch.

Re: possibility of CJ AND Stevie both lying-
I don't see why CJ-recruited-scum would bother tying himself to a false result on Spyrex. There was no indication that Spyrex is particularly dangerous to scum. I'm trusting CJ's investigation.

@Noc-
-I'm not sure how helpful it is to tell scum whether my protection has any impact on being recruited or not. However, I will say, if CJ was recruited, I doubt he would have come out with a positive investigation result on anyone. I believe CJ is town.

...

Not much to comment on the rest of stuff.

So:
-I'd like to hear (I guess from CJ) whether any other supercomputers want to reveal themselves or whether I should just submit a best guess.
AND
VOTE: Spyrex

[Kast]

@Tajo-
My ability should have given him a PM telling him he has been upgraded and that he has the 1-Shot Day Cop. It should not have said

who

gave it to him. I get no notification whether the ability is a success or not.

[Kast]

Uh...wth?...I haven't submitted yet. I'm hoping it's fine to submit now...

[Kast]

Night phases that last the entire week with day phases that end over the weekend don't work for my schedule. Never have, never will. Skimmed some, somewhat caught up.

-Antifinity's ace vote looks bad, but an Ace-wagon today is the right move so meh.
-Zeln1k is opportunistic scum trying to wagon on GI's post and unconcerned with finding scum.

The CJ lynch was a good move. It's clear CJ was just BSing about the second cult thing. His flip clears Noc's and Noc's daycop clears LC.

That leaves VOTE: Ace as my top remaining scum suspect.

[Kast]

@Iec-
?
I

Programmed:

CJ

on D1. I

Programmed

Pom

on D2 since I thought she was town and also thought she was potentially CJ's less-obvious mason buddy due to her near blind obedience of his vote in the latter half of D2. I

Programmed:

Noc

on D3 since he and CJ had claimed already. I submitted

Program:

Amrun

after day ended on D4, and Kdub sent a confirmation that my action was received, but not positive if it counted (I think it did since he said action received). So if Amrun did not get a Daycop, then I'm assuming she's not a Supercomputer. I suspect there are no Supercomputers left, but not positive of that and it doesn't hurt to keep

Programming

on the off chance that there is another one.

[Kast]

@Noc-
Unfortunately, it cannot be used on the same person more than once. I doubt there are any other supercomputers left. In the series there are other Supercomputers at each worldwide Nerv site. However, none of these feature prominently and given the mason connection, I doubt there are additional supercomputers present.

Question: you mentioned that CJ appeared to be setting up for his recruitment. Did he give indications that he knew about being recruitable BEFORE N1?

@Stevie-
That is incorrect. Ace was one of CJ's D1 suspects, along with LC and Malthusis. LC has been cleared (for now that's enough for me to ignore GF potential).

[Kast]

Seems more like you're covering up in case someone tracks you. vote: Kast but I'm still on for an Ace lynch.

Are you reading anything at all? My ability is DAY USE. Tracking does nothing unless it's DAY TRACKING.

@GreyICE-
If you have a point post it. You've made ONE meaningful contribution to the entire game, and that was pushing through the CJ lynch. And that was an obvious move. Reverting to your "angry-VI-mode" is counterproductive.

[Kast]

@Iec-
?
What are you even asking?

Obviously CJ was town D1. While town he expressed genuine town suspicion of Ace as scum. After he became scum, he dropped it. This isn't hard to follow especially as it follows directly with Noc's question on this exact subject.

@GI-
Ace is posting for the obvious town cred in the event that town comes to the obvious conclusion that the only sane members of the town block (CJ and Spyrex both reached) and I get killed and flip town. To a lesser degree, he's also preparing for the eventuality that idiot GI and GW push through a lynch on obv conf-town Kast with no reason other than people are unhappy I didn't plave an early game vote and opposed the dumb-town-bloc (which only made sense for CJ and LLD because they were MASONS).

I suppose the sudden push is probably an attempt to forestall and avoid explaining the lack of an Ace wagon, despite a majority previously expressing clear suspicion of Ace. Ace/Antifinity/and potentially GW are probably angel-scum.

[Kast]

@Iec-

My point is that this is bogus, because CJ was town N1, so any "scum ignore one another" tell clearly wouldn't apply until D2.

As I clearly pointed out, CJ was town D1, and

*ON D1 HE DID NOT IGNORE ACE*

. Further,

*ON D1 HE GENUINELY THOUGHT ACE WAS SCUM*

. Noc raised a very reasonable potential tell, that CJ dropping suspects from D1 to D2 could reflect CJ dropping his scum buddies after he got recruited. CJ did

*EXACTLY THIS*

regarding Ace.

I'm not sure why you keep arguing as if I'm trying to inconsistently apply the tangentially related null-tell that Stevie was using. Obviously Stevie's tell does not match up with my

*CORRECTION*

to his argument. At the same time, though distinct, they are similar; so if you are simply trying to say that Stevie is correct if you amend his statement to "CJ ignored Ace while CJ was scum", then I agree, but I don't see how that amended read is mutually exclusive with my point. Nor do I see how that weaker tell is anywhere near as valid.

@Zeln1k-
D3 lasted 5 hours overnight. What's your objection?
D4 started and ended while I was on posted V/LA (climbed Mt. Whitney on Monday, returned on Tuesday). It was also over in 36 hours from day start.

[Kast]

@Zeln1k-
You're ignoring the first half of what I posted, citing an example that was not relevant to the second half, then claiming the entire thing is irrelevant. That's invalid. I can't exactly post during night phase; and night phase has repeatably eaten the weekday periods when I have access and availability.
-D3 was uber short and there's no need to even ask why I (or anyone else) might not have posted then. Using that as an example is invalid.
-D4 started at Sunday Midnight/Monday of a long weekend and ended before I got back from V/LA on the Tuesday of that same long weekend. How is that irrelevant?

@GI-

If this is a mislynch, I'm sooooo past caring.

You were past caring from your third post of the game. How is your position now any different? You obviously aren't playing to win this game, and are still just playing to insult people who rub you wrong.

[Kast]

@GW-
Your post is unclear, but context suggests you are trying to buddy GreyIce. Re-check your facts.
-GI was pushing Stevie as an alternate to Malthusis up until the lynch. He was very explicit that his remaining suspicion of Malthusis was only there as appeasement to CJ/Tar (who he apparently worships).
-Vollkan was obvious scum publicly confirmed by Pom. The possibility of it being a mislynch was non-existant. The probability of anyone else being lynched that day was close enough to non-existant. Do you have a point with this?
-CJ was obvious scum confirmed by his lie about Spyrex and further by his interactions with Noc. GI did a good job in insisting on the CJ lynch. I've already gone over this.

[Kast]

@Stevie-
I already gave Noc a day cop and he already confirmed this and used it to cleared LC as non-Angel.

I'll keep targeting players I think are town and who haven't claimed non-Supercomputer.

@Celebloki-
I don't recall you even being in this game. Iso doesn't show much more than sheeping the leading wagons at the time. More posts of substance would be welcome; particularly thoughts on players with reasons for those thoughts.

@GW-
The difference between Ace-wagon and Kast-wagon in terms of size and momentum is GW's vote AND Nocmen expressing willingness to join the wagon but current preference for Celebloki.

I'm totes scum, guys, and I bussed twice.

This is meaningless attempt at dismissal. There's absolutely no reason to think any scum would avoid bussing either Vollkan OR CJ. This is twice that you're trying to push a "Player X was on 2 scum lynches=>Player X must be a townie" argument and it's just as silly and invalid now as it was the first time you pushed it.

@LC-
That's correct. I can only target any player once. Additionally, I get no feedback about whether my ability was a success or failure (aside from my target deciding to claim in thread).

though, this could be because itd be really helpful if nocmen would target amrun.

This is unclear;
-Are you saying you think I'm fake claiming in order to excuse myself/Noc from investigating Amrun?
-Are you saying your reservations about Kast ("unsure about") might be biased since you really wish Noc could investigate Amrun?

FTR, Amrun's been playing like town and it would have been a terrible waste for Noc to investigate her when there's many other much better targets (Ace, Antifinity, GW,...even Stevie).

[Kast]

I got a PM saying my mind had been invaded. It's now pretty obvious that it was vollkan's daycop ability but at the time, we didn't know what it was. I didn't have the time to respond to any questions about it so I figured I'd report it when I came back from V/LA. I don't know if that was a good decision or not but there you have it. Not much else I can say about it.

I'm not sure if I missed this before or it just didn't register. Barring counterclaims I'm inclined to let this go for a bit...however, for some reason I had an impression that Kawaii was the probable D2 investigation and probably why Kawaii was NKed.

Hmm...on re-read I realized why I thought that; Kawaii reappeared on D2, but then there's nothing else after that to indicate reason for scum to kill such a useless lurker. Also, unless scum has day talk (which isn't standard for Kdub's games), vollkan wouldn't have been able to share a day investigation from D3.

@Starbuck/Amrun-
Starbuck's claimed investigations sound plausible, but some thoughts:

-Does your ability track day use abilities?
--I have to check with Kdub on something; my action use on D3 and D4 were both submitted post lynch, and I'm kinda suspecting that he may have accepted them as Night actions (for whatever reason...).

Nvm, this'll confuse people if I play innocent on it. Starbuck is right. My ability is actually night use, but I claimed day use to wifom scum and avoid any roleblocks (for obvious reasons). I'm pretty sure Tajo realized this or something along this lines when he made his day-use/RB speculation. So Starbuck actually has the power she claimed. Additionally, I'd have expected a scum-Starbuck to attack me for this (obviously there's some idiots who would happily join that attack). I'd expect a town-Starbuck to realize what I'd done and leave it (as she is doing).
-No result on a hider is generally because hiders become untargettable when they hide. I doubt there was anything more to it than that.
-Amrun, sorry I really thought you were town, but with your claim just isn't compatible and I'm more inclined to trust the tracker whose demonstrated some private info proving her ability.
--Additionally, it seems unlikely that we would have BOTH a miller as GI has claimed AND scum who can frame you (as you've suggested).

VOTE: Amrun

[Kast]

Back from V/LA.

@Kdub-
Balance wasn't that bad. Any game in which the SK gets lynched D1 becomes almost impossible for town to lose. In a large game, killing the SK early gives town an extra 3-4 days worth of mislynching (or modkills) and PR use, and lets town focus better on scum hunting and have a more complete picture to solve the game.

I like the mechanic you gave me, but I definitely think it should be modded to what I actually claimed instead of what it actually was (the single night protect is pretty much useless). It's great that CJ revealed himself; given that he was masons with the other supercomputers, it was absolutely the right move to claim and allow use of the ability. The day recruiting as a counter worked perfectly and was a solid balance for that. If I hadn't lied about my ability being day use, it would have been a pretty good balance since scum could have locked me and prevented enabling Noc/clearing LC.

If Tajo had had a different punishment, it wouldn't have affected me anyway since I just hit reply to your PM and didn't realize that reply = reply all. I was in a rush that time to submit any action (though it turned out to be moot anyway), so it was mostly the rush since I didn't have time to write a new PM for the night action as I usually do (also, you made the role clearer in this game so I didn't have a million PMs asking for role clarification questions to "Reply").

@Town-
Good job town.

Great jobs by Spyrex and Pom, unfortunate that you got dead as/when you did (sorry Spyrex, but hope you understand going with the claimed investigation result).

Starbuck, nice solid play while you were here. Hope you can be on the more active side in future games.

Good job to GI in his later game play. Strongly agree with Kdub that my modkill was a boon to town since prior to that GI wouldn't let himself actually play the game or contribute in any way at all. Still absolutely detest his extremely hostile play to everyone and unnecessary personal attacks. I'll avoid signing up in games with you in future.

GW-
At least when the scum were essentially mod-confirmed, you were willing to go after them. Better than can be said for some of our townies.

Iec-
Dunno wtf you were going on about during this game. You called me scum, then said I relieved all your concerns, then called me town, then apparently forgot that and called me scum again. I can only assume you were influenced by our concurrent game at the time.

LLD/CJ/Noc vs Non-Mason Voting Bloc-
The bloc only makes any sense for the masons, and then only as far as trusting people each other for being mod confirmed. Everyone else ended up pushing town and letting scum slip by until the bloc dissipated. What was the value you sought from it and was it worth letting scum slip by and pushing townies to reveal themselves?

@Scum-
CJ- nice job working with what you had and miraculously surviving a day despite being extremely obvious scum.
Vollkan- you played a solid game, and unfortunately that backfired on you with the hider.

Amrun- I guess you were obvious scum to most of town, but you didn't seem that bad to me

Ace- yeah...not a great scum performance
Zeln1k- the claim wasn't so hot and the later game play seemed like you were just giving up

[Kast]

@GI-
Try reading again. You flipped out and went crazy over a simple and straightforward question that did NOT doubt your claim and explicitly questioned relevant aspects of your claim and ways it could be used to find scum. You were an ass then and continued to be an ass afterward to myself and to pretty much everyone who didn't just sheep you (and even some of them).

There's a huge difference between telling someone that their game play is poor and why it is poor (what I did a few times) and straight up insulting people and trying to be an asshole because you disagree with them or you're butthurt about unrelated issues (what you admit you were trying to do). It's also completely ridiculous and inappropriate to play against your wincon just because you're upset with someone (again what you self-admitted).

Have fun trying to justify your completely inappropriate behavior; your personal attacks and being an ass for the sake of being an ass were not good for this game and will never be appropriate in any game. You'll be a much better player once you learn to have some basic respect for your fellow players (even the ones you disagree with). It's disappointing that everyone seems ok with giving you a free pass on your behavior simply because you helped town win.

You're welcome to post any "last word" or whatever, I'm done dealing with your BS and you can be happy I won't be playing with you any more.

[Kast]

@Kdub-
Agreed that SKs work well as roles to improve game balance, however, in a large game they're almost definitely going to kill more town than mafia (there's going to be more town than mafia). Eliminating them early game helps town more than mafia, but as the game progresses, it tends to shift to parity and/or mafia benefit.

Definitely agree that the protection aspect of ability being public makes the protection

as it was

essentially meaningless. Independent of that, in any situation in which my ability has been publicly claimed, it becomes better to claim that I grant a 1x bulletproof since it makes mafia unwilling to kill the townie who has been BPed. Similarly, having my ability be night use instead of day use ALSO makes it horrible when publicly claimed (to be clear, I think it

should

be night use, but any townie forced to claim should claim it as day use to avoid roleblocks). Obviously, granting a 1-shot bulletproof is almost always going to be more powerful than the single night doc protect.

Given that many towns are unwilling to take liberties with their roleclaims, having the weaker version becomes a weakness if claiming becomes necessary.

In any situation in which a supercomputer has publicly claimed but is not claimed as a mason, the protection remains meaningless since being a supercomputer alone would not incline scum to kill that player.
If the supercomputer also claimed mason, then it's debatable, but a close tie between a publicly claiming a bulletproof on that supercomputer (thus keeping a conf. town alive into endgame) or publicly claiming the next-day day-cop to force scum to lose a kill trying to stop the day-cop. Not claiming anything about my ability would allow the day cop to definitely come into play the following day; but the protection aspect would be useless, and claiming AFTER the fact that the supercomputer was BP would be much less plausible and thus much less likely to keep the supercomputer cop alive.

Your example situation highlights the only time that the ability

as is

works out equivalently to the ability

as I think it should be

, and then it requires the extremely unlikely conditionals of me correctly guessing a mason AND mafia decide to shoot that SAME mason. With this PR heavy game, it's pretty likely that mafia would be shooting at a claimed non-supercomputer; in which case successfully guessing a supercomputer

still

leaves the protection aspect meaningless.

For reference, with 3 supercomputers out of 22 players, the odds of finding one by chance are under 14% (ie. once in seven games). Having CJ claim and out the other masons early allowed us to clear Noc and keep him until endgame, clear LC who was the top mislynch candidate at the time, and limit/reveal the traitor (essentially resulting in a 1-for-1 trade of Spyrex for CJ). I don't see any realistic situations in which my ability would have been any stronger

without

those claims.

* Programming LLD on N2 would have been an even more powerful move, but also would have been a result of CJ's claim. Sorry town for missing that chance. I originally submitted LLD since that was CJ's obvious reference, but last second changed my mind and submitted Pom instead since I started second guessing whether CJ was even a mason at all or was just messing with town.