Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

Claim: Watcher/Tracker Miller

If you track me, I will track to all night kills. If you watch a night kill, I will be seen visiting them.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: Starbuck

Let's hope there are no cults in this game.

And just exactly WHY are you bringing up cults D1?

Vote: Amrun

That's NOT a random vote.

- Tar

I assume a certain experience we both just suffered, and that Starbuck was included in. I'd launch into details, but it's not a mafia game that did not occur and that I certainly was never a part of.

[GreyICE]

@GreyIce-
Please clarify if your claim is serious.
-If so, does your power ALSO prevent a watcher from seeing the ACTUAL culprit? (This should be a no-brainer to share if you're seriously claiming)
-Would your ability false track to protected and/or kill immune targets (ie. failed kill attempts)?

NO I MADE IT UP DAY 1 AS A TALKING POINT. HOW QUICK OF YOU TO REALIZE THAT IT WAS A FAKECLAIM. VERY DEEP INSIGHT.

EVERYTHING ELSE SUPER OBVIOUS. NO NO OBV

VOTE: KAST

BECAUSE

[GreyICE]

VOTE: KAST

^
Seriously want him lynched

[GreyICE]

Come on, wagon scum to lynch by page 4.

Do it. DO IT

[GreyICE]

I'll link if anyone cares, but think of the worst game of mafia that never happened and this was worse than all the other games of mafia that never happened (including the fact that it was won by a serial killer who DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS A SERIAL KILLER until the game didn't end when the last scum was lynched)

[GreyICE]

Also I have no grudges against Starbuck at all whatsoever as a result of that game. Bastard game was bastard.

[GreyICE]

OH FOR GODS SAKE THAT WAS ALL A DREAM. I SAW IT IN AN ANIME AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. IT WAS ALL A VERY BAD DREAM AND IT NEVER OCCURRED IN REALITY SO DON'T BRING ANY OF THAT DREAMWORLD SHIT INTO HERE.

IT WAS NOT A GAME OF MAFIA AND

IT NEVER HAPPENED.

THAT'S MY STORY AND YOU'RE STICKING TO IT.

[GreyICE]

I believe lynching you will remove one player who doesn't share my win condition, Kast. So screw your stupid meta. 'cause if you think about it:

1) I wanted the governor ability dead and buried because I thought it would fuck the town. In the end, it was a totally pro-town power that worked really well, neh?
2) I wanted DGB, Mikujin, MoI and Xvart lynched. Two of those were scum, and DGB was playing like shit.

Oh no yeah, my play was terrible, I'm glad you hated it so much.

I'm also very, very, very glad to lynch you right now.

[GreyICE]

Come on, wagon scum to lynch by page 4.

Do it. DO IT

Town gains nothing by rushing for a quick lynch. Also you really haven't offered any significant criticisms of Kast, besides your sarcastic responses and posting about how much you want him lynched.

Town gains a lot from scum knowing that we don't have to sit around dragging our feet all day because it's really town to foot drag on lynching scum.

I love fast wagons, I love scum wagons, I love the uncertainty. Two of my favorite wagons both occurred in under six hours on day 1.

Kast posts suck. This is a good reason to lynch.

[GreyICE]

Also, how many games have you played before Stevie? Legit question, because I'm curious as to you knowing what you do to people who are tracked or watched targeting a night kill. Watched really makes it a 'throw in the towel' on me trying to just play super town and get night killed fast as I can be town enough not to get copped/tracked but I can't dodge a watcher.

[GreyICE]

See you're town in this game vollkan. You is easy to reads

[GreyICE]

FOS scum, vote town, really?

Aren't you like better than that?

[GreyICE]

Those questions are stupid. I specifically track/watch on night kills. If someone isn't KILLED at night, why would I watch/track to them?

As for roleblocking all watchers by inserting my name, NO. Why the FUCK wouldn't I mention that if I did THAT?!? I fucking just show up on the list of people. If it's me+1, then +1 is scum. If it's just me, lynch me and you'll have a confirmed Mafia Ninja and/or confirmed scum fakeclaiming.

[GreyICE]

What is a RNG? never heard that term before or maybe i am rusty.

RNG. I used a random number generator for my first vote because I was in a hurry.
I'm convinced this cult-wagon-thing is nuts, and everyone involved is crazy.
The miller thing is more serious, and for flavor reasons, I'm inclined to believe it.
I'm going to put my less random vote on Candle Jack, for caring far too much

vote: Candle Jack

Candle Jack is my mason buddy. I get mad when you vote for my mason buddies. Who would you say is floating on the sidelines and needs serious pressure?

PEdit: Drew those questions were still noise designed to look town, they were stupid as SIN.

[GreyICE]

Masons now too? Why the hell would you out that fact for no good reason?

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

Ooh, interesting. The plot thickens.

I give you one post to identify the enormous error you just made.

[GreyICE]

Wow no one gets my sense of humor, do they.

Tar is way town and the vote was crap. What the fuck is the point of a miller mason anyway

Brains, children.

[GreyICE]

@GreyIce-
Posts like this make it seem like you really don't care to play this game any more than to insult and belittle people who disagree with your current set of beliefs. You haven't posted anything significant or relevant aside from making a claim. Change that please.

@Kast: No, that was actually a suggestion that Pomegranate was doing the classic 'fos scum, vote town.'

AKA she's scum.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing the game fairly well, Nocmen more or less claimed scum in his last post if you pay attention to it, and Tar confirmed himself v. townie (like we didn't know this) and also a tad unstable (LAL, really? Does that like ever work?).

You sitting there and whining rather than trying to figure out what's going on doesn't feel super town. And I'm waiting for Nocmen to post. Plus you're probs scum, so well etc. My votes where it should be

PEdit: Nocmen, one last chance. What was terribly, terribly wrong with your vote on me?

[GreyICE]

Fair enough, scumclaims come from scum.

Vote: Stevie

[GreyICE]

I thought Nocmen claimed scum according to you. Are you ever going to explain that or show conviction in your reads, Grey?

Sure, soon as there stops being MULTIPLE SCUM I'll be happy to pick one and stick to him.

I mean unless you have a "Lone Scumman" theory you'd like to share.

[GreyICE]

No, seriously, how did Nocmen claim scum? I think he is, so this is relevant to my interests.

The point where he went:
"Oh you're a mason, I believe this claim."
"It's stupid to claim that on day 1"
"Therefore I'll vote to lynch you."

It's like flying on autopilot, no town thought processes involved.

Stevie is pretty much the same, except with rolefishing and blatant stupidity thrown in. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but no, he laughed and said he knows what he's doing and rolefished again, so that's just a blatant scum claim.

[GreyICE]

Masons now too? Why the hell would you out

that fact

for no good reason?

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

[GreyICE]

Oh right, since GreyICE has indicated that his mason claim with me was a joke (a supremely anti-town joke, I should note - DON'T do it again) and the rest of his play indicates he's town, I need to unvote him now.

Will not be taking this advice. Why was it anti-town to suggest that someone needs to put his vote somewhere useful?

[GreyICE]

Oh right, since GreyICE has indicated that his mason claim with me was a joke (a supremely anti-town joke, I should note - DON'T do it again) and the rest of his play indicates he's town, I need to unvote him now.

Will not be taking this advice. Why was it anti-town to suggest that someone needs to put his vote somewhere useful?

It's not what you were trying to do, but how you did it. Savvy?

Not really. You're town I trust day 1 to the level that you might as well be a mason with me, I shan't be voting for you nor vocalizing such today. So it's like 50/50 joke/observation.

Stevie is a lot more scum than LC.

Bringing up cults is most definitely a scum tell, it is an attempt to derail the D1 discussion. And, even though it was "justified" as a mention of another game, that still was a (fairly successful) attempt to keep us talking about unimportant things. For that reason, I will

Vote: Amrun

. Also, pretty much all of Amrun's posts have been defending himself about this issue, besides one post where he calls the Kast wagon bad - again this is a large post count that really isn't contributing anything pro-town.

I'm not getting a really scummy read of Kast, but I don't think the wagon is completely unfounded, however I wouldn't like it to see it get out of hand.

FoS: GreyIce

for not answering legitimate questions. If you do not get on that it will turn into a vote. I have some questions for you myself:
Why did you choose to claim D1 being completely unprompted? Not that this is necessarily a scum tell I simply don't get your motivation.
Why did you claim your role power without claiming what character you were?

Town gains nothing by rushing for a quick lynch. Also you really haven't offered any significant criticisms of Kast, besides your sarcastic responses and posting about how much you want him lynched.

unvote, vote: GreyIce

Multiple posts, still hasn't answered the many legitimate and direct questions. Instead he did a pointless fake sarcastic claim which serves no purpose. Answer the questions, defend yourself against the points against you. Ignoring them is a sure route to getting lynched. You are doing a good job of scumhunting, and made a good point about Pomegrant's fos and vote. However, ignoring everyone who is criticizing you is very scummy.

As for Amrun, what he did is a scumtell. I'm quite sick of this debate but I believe its a scum tell, and worth a vote at that stage of the game. Not everyone in this game agrees with this, and frankly its been debated to death so I'm going to try and move past it. His recent posts have been good.

This is called the difference between 'looking for scum' and 'looking for things you can call scummy.' This is 100% the latter, and he's already claimed he knows what he's doing and is not a noob with a list of wiki shit.

Your vote would be a LOT more productive on this scumbag.

[GreyICE]

WOW

AMRUN

SCUM

[GreyICE]

Maybe you can live a little, cast a vote, something wild and wacky like that.

[GreyICE]

Every read is neutral or scummy.

I'm not going to open a single one of those spoiler tags, and I'll be saner for it.

[GreyICE]

Ooh, LLD is town. This is making my day better and better.

My Stevie vote isn't changing because of a soft-claimed PR.

Need to read more, but we'll role.

P.S. I'm not a mini-Fate. I'm my own brand of pain in the ass

[GreyICE]

So I've taken a look at the activity overview and Amrun is way out in the lead with 53 posts so far and the next one down is Nocmen with 32. I'm going to iso Amrun and re-read her because why (if town) would you need 53 posts to say what you need to say? Unless Amrun is really ZazieR and then that's the end of that.

Your theory is that Amrun is scummy for posting... too much?


I... I actually... what is this I don't even

[GreyICE]

Of course if we want some more guaranteed scum, Malthusis is soooooooooo bad.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Malthusis

[GreyICE]

Grey, remember what I found between Vi and Seraphim in Bebop?

Drew and Ace.

Hmm. That was scum vs. 'third party scum' where Vi was playing like scum while Seraphim was just playing like 'not-town.' Having been in another game where I've been on the 'he's not town' side of the 'acting like scum/acting like not-town' debate, I have a good perspective on both.

Okay, I absolutely promise to read them both when I catch up on this game I'm like 10 pages behind on

[GreyICE]

How could someone counterclaim the nameclaim Rei? Now, I admit, I never really watched the anime.

However, I once played a dating sim based on it

, and I'm pretty sure she's a main character, right?

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

You just made my night~

2nd this this is the greatest quote ever.

@GW: Asuka is actually the main character obv.

[GreyICE]

@LLD: Okay, I take back any neutral I had on Drew, ISO #6 and #11 were terrible, and his votes are all weaksauce.

Ace is terrible because of the idea that he was somehow on the Kast wagon while his vote was sitting on SpyreX, and a general lack of care on what he's doing overall. That being said, his scum reads are Kast, Nocmen, Amrun, and Stevie, which are so frighteningly close to what I'm thinking that it's just plain eerie. So he's getting my town badge (or at least my 'not gonna lynch badge') for today.

Man all my town reads have the same scumreads I have, either we're doing something VERY right or VERY wrong. But if Nocmen, Kast, Antifinity, Amrun, Stevie, and Drew live to endgame I'll be sad.

In honor of our lord god SpyreX who got this AMAZING feature implemented, here's the people under 10 posts who are theoretically still playing the game, did not replace in or out, and were not posting out of hydra:


Kawaii 2011-06-26 16:18:23 0 days 21 hours 2
Surye 2011-06-24 12:01:41 3 days 1 hour 2
Celebloki 2011-06-27 13:25:01 0 days 0 hours 4
malthusis 2011-06-26 13:11:48 1 day 0 hours 6
Antifinity 2011-06-27 03:55:50 0 days 9 hours 7

Plox vig from this pool vigs. I

USED

to have a rule not to direct town power, but after two games with hero vigs who thought they could shoot an entire scumteam with their 'wicked readz' and hit nothing but town, I'm so down with telling the vigs to clean up the messes we have to clean up anyway.

[GreyICE]

@SpyreX, GI, Candle Jack, Tajo

Town voting block tiem?

Ready to rock and role.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I hate to piss on everyone's party, because I love this alliance, but I'm smelling town off LC. Not to toot my own horn, but I've seen scum LC before, called him midway through day 1 in SHR and this just ain't it.

My number one problem with LC was that his vote was sitting orphened on Malthusis (who had given me no reason to think he was town so it wasn't a terribad vote) until Mathusis started to build noise then he moved it over to Amrun. However, if we assume Malthusis is town, there's no scum motivation behind that move, and suddenly LC gets a whole lot less scummy for me. Besides which I think the reasoning in ISO #4,5, and 16 feels somewhat town.

I'd rather see a wagon on Amrun, or failing that do another reread with new info.

[GreyICE]

Tajo is town regardless

[GreyICE]

Okay, I hate to piss on everyone's party, because I love this alliance, but I'm smelling town off LC. Not to toot my own horn, but I've seen scum LC before, called him midway through day 1 in SHR and this just ain't it.

My number one problem with LC was that his vote was sitting orphened on Malthusis (who had given me no reason to think he was town so it wasn't a terribad vote) until Mathusis started to build noise then he moved it over to Amrun. However, if we assume Malthusis is town, there's no scum motivation behind that move, and suddenly LC gets a whole lot less scummy for me. Besides which I think the reasoning in ISO #4,5, and 16 feels somewhat town.

I'd rather see a wagon on Amrun, or failing that do another reread with new info.

And why do you think Malth is town?

Vote: Malthusis

[GreyICE]

Let's hear you claim, Lobster.

Why aren't we lynching obvscum here. WHY?

Anyway, not touching LC before I hit Malthusis because I've learned my lessons about carts in front of horses.

[GreyICE]

So uh... Stevie doesn't claim and then he insists other people claim. Take two.

SpyreX, Tar, explain to me why he's alive. LLD, I know you're as happy to eat flavor bullshittery and role bullshittery for lunch as I am, is there any reason outside those he shouldn't have a short drop today?

[GreyICE]

*confused*

Your argument is that one action by LC isn't a scumtell if malthusis is town. All that means is that the action might be a relational scumtell if malthusis is scum. It doesn't constitute a scumtell on its own in respect of malthusis.

Ayiyi Malthisus was scummy until Nocmen made that one post then Nocmen made that other post that ate the first post and then well so etc. CJ saw it too.

I still want Steeevie DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD

Pedit: Lemme lynch it guys, pleeeeaaaasseeee

[GreyICE]

Seriously, fuck this noise.

Vote: StevieT92

I GET IT KID. YOUR FAKECLAIM IS BOSS. GUESS WHAT? IT DON'T SAVE YOU

[GreyICE]

UNVOTE

(I unvoted in a previous post, but it seems to have been missed)

Ayiyi Malthisus was scummy until Nocmen made that one post then Nocmen made that other post that ate the first post and then well so etc. CJ saw it too.

So your argument is:
1) Malthusis is scummy in his own right; and
2) A further reason for lynching malthusis is it will shed light on LC's alignment?

Noooooooo, Malthusis is scummy enough to lynch on his own merits. If he flips scum, I will strongly reconsider my current stance on LC, which is that he's leaning town.

2 not related to 1.

[GreyICE]

Pomegranate -

GI vote is meh,

kast is not making sense at this point. Calling out Stevie on the Kast point is good, and voting Stevie is pretty good. Confused on vollkan post at 479. Sheeping LC wagon, noted.

Read Null

VOTE: GreyICE I'd like to see this be the new wagon, I think it's much better than LC. LC's fluff-as-content is annoying, perhaps scummy, but not damning enough for me. But GI's claim is damaging to town, barely provable without his own death, arrogant superreads based on nothing, and everything in my read, this is where my vote is happy.

Yeah, there's a definite level of inconsistency involved with playing the game. It's not always a scumtell - reads evolve, people change their mind, even over the course of a single post. But those two in close conjunction are actually disgustingly painful.

I'm going to trim LC and Ace off the list of people I'm okay to lynch on there, but Malt/Amrun/Drew is fairly solid where I'm concerned. This nocmen dance also pisses me off.

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Today is listening to Tar and LLD day.

Vote: Malthusis

Stevie, your time is coming.

[GreyICE]

There is no inconsistancy in the bold. I said those were in iso format. I thought a vote for you was meh based on the context and time of his vote, and now I like my vote. Tell me how you didnt understand that.

So you think I'm scum based off everything I've done, including pages 1-5, but you think Pom's vote for me on page 4 sucks and is a scum tell and you see no inconstancy...

You ain't town.

[GreyICE]

Keep trying to discredit us Surye.

You're acting like caught scum~

I'm just not as good as you guys, especially GI, who hits total and absolute scum everytime, and doesn't even need to post reasons. He are gooood.

Yeah, remember IPod mafia?

"Why friend NoPoint, your case on GreyICE is quite excellent, and friend Glass you should be voting GreyICE too."

I'll trust Tar today I guess. This is a fairly useless Surye though. "Everyone posting and taking positions is scum! Everyone lurking and doing nothing is town! Malthusis could be an excellent lynch I guess lots of null get over it."

Yeah, fuck meta, I just wanna kill it. Other blood sings to me harder though (why are we not lynching Stevie, WHYYYYY WHY WHY WHY WHY)

[GreyICE]

Amrun, why did you draw a scum role PM? I like you so much better when you're town.

You did this JUST to spite me, didn't you?

[GreyICE]

CAUSE YOU'RE A LLAMA

[GreyICE]

Also like:
"Man, that miller claim from GreyICE on page 1 is horrible. He's going to fuck up the game and we should totally lynch him."
"Man Pom's scummy for voting ICE on page 4, it's not a very good vote."
"Nope, no inconsistencies here. Different droids. DIFFERENT DROIDS!"

[GreyICE]

Meh, PYP GI wasn't the be all and end all.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, but are we talking about you~?

Hey, I've been good!

[GreyICE]

@SpyreX: what do you think of Amrun and an Amrun wagon?

Same question to Vollkan.

@Kast: Are you an alt of Yosarian?

[GreyICE]

I seriously think you are town stoking the flames that will end only a single way if you keep at it.

I'm aware I'm probably bruising egos. I'm assuming most players are good enough to separate a bruised ego from a voting decision (if they aren't then all the more reason for calling that out). I appreciate the concern, but I only seeing it end

badly

for me if I hit a nerve on hiding-scum and they decide to NK me for it. And that's not actually that bad.[/quote]
Kast. Stop. Now.

You continually throughout this entire game have taken the stance that anyone who vocally disagrees with you and criticizes your reads or play is suffering from a 'bruised ego' / 'is a bad player' / 'is arrogant' / 'doesn't like being taken down a peg.' This is from our first disagreement on page 1.

As of this post, I am no longer considering this a town tell or a null tell. Every post after this it is a scum tell, and I can and WILL go to the wall to see you dead for it. If you don't like that, fuck you.

If you think the town block contains scum, say who it is and why you suspect them, and who you think is town. If you think that our reads are so bad that our bloc is no better than throwing darts at a dartboard blindfolded, explain why. If you think that we're off, then say why we're off.

Do not sit here scumplaining that everyone who doesn't like you is suffering from a 'bruised ego.' It IS scummy as shit. It IS using pure Appeal to Emotion. You are NOT YamiChan. You are NOT Yosarian. Stop pretending that everyone who disagrees with you is a bully suffering from a bruised ego, and start responding to what we are saying.

Line in the sand Kast. We will not be discussing it after this, we will not be discussing it in response to this. You will simply stop doing it now, and start responding in a consistent, logical manner with no AtE about egos and how people don't like you because you're right etc. etc.

I will consider this a scumtell from this point forward. I will push you to the wall over it. I will rip you until you bleed. I will not let up. And you will go down. And if you're town, this will NOT help the town any. If you're scum, then try faking more logical arguments, because every appeal to emotion is rejected.

[GreyICE]

Okay, Kast, warned was warned.

Vote: Kast

Not unvoting Kast until he's dead, SpyreX.

[GreyICE]

Its still a really bad call but I'm not going to RAGE against it.

Yeah, see Hoopla's posts in PYP? Long, intricate, and quite free of real content of any sort.

Kast posts? Long, intricate, and the only content is saying how everyone who votes for him is either a VI or doesn't like his playstyle.

Any idiot can spout a LOT of information, and this is just information mixed with really bad AtE.

Why is he town? He directly and blatantly laughs at the idea of providing clear logical content, and throws it straight back in my face. He wants to play like this for the entire game. Shit, no. He won't be playing on day 2.

(And the vote won't move no matter what the answer. Ultimatums are ultimatums)

I could switch to Kast at deadline. I think he and Ace are both scum.

Switch now. If they're both scum, there's little practical preference to pushing one over another. Kast is deliberately CLAIMING that he'll be useless to the town. This ain't town behavior. Just kill him.

Kast does nothing useful except kick shit at players. He's had no good reads. His response to every vote on him is to try and discredit the person voting for him:

Nocmen Votes for Kast:

@Nocmen-
There's a difference between stating what you think and asking people if it's ok to think what you think. The "town must vote immediately" mindset is ridiculous and needs to be killed. I think I've been spoiled by playing mostly games with competent playerbases where this stuff doesn't need to be explained.

It's all theory, Nocmen's mindset is ridiculous, clear implication that Nocmen is incompetent.

Ace criticizes Kast:

@Ace-
If you're going to bother quoting context, you should take the extra time to read the context.

If you believed the statement in bold why did you feel the need to do the italic statement.

I felt the need because people like you (and I suspect Candlejack as well) are going to be dense and fallaciously claim that thinking someone is joking is equivalent to thinking the person is seriously fake claiming.

Also the bold statement is a lie:

The bold statement is false. As you quoted, I explicitly asked whether GreyIce was

SERIOUS

or not. If he was not being serious, then his claim was clearly opening game joking (ie. it is meaningless). If he was being serious, then there exists possibilities of telling the truth or fake claiming. Nowhere have I ever suggested or implied the latter; rather I have explicitly indicated the former is more likely due to the demonstrable nature of his claim.

And I can't find where you explicitly contrasted anything.

Sounds like a personal problem

(You just quoted it, so I'm not buying it if you pretend you did not see/understand it)

Ace is dense, Ace isn't reading, Ace is pretending not to see/understand something.

Surye votes Kast:

@Surye-
Welcome to the game. Do you have anything more to add and/or thoughts about anything else?

Also, excusing yourself from your position by claiming to not read old grudges allows you to mischaracterize my position. I was one of the few players who defended GreyIce and was willing to engage in discussion with him despite his behavior. He was just as unhelpful and intentionally hostile in that game as this one, but I got a strong VI-town read from it. If you're going to bother using the linked game as an excuse, get it right.

Surye is excusing his votes, implies that Surye didn't do a thorough read/is just sheeping a wagon, Surye is excusing himself from the wagon.

Repeatedly criticizes Surye for flaking and suggests he will flake out throughout the thread. Surye currently (despite being a replacement) boasts

TWENTY-ONE

posts in this thread, putting him ahead of:

DrewoftheRushes
Zel1nk
GhostWriter
malthusis
Antifinity
Kawaii
Celeblowski

Many of these players have single-digit post counts. Yet during the course of this thread, Kast has not harped on anyone for lurking/flaking as much as Surye, and

Surye replaced in.

Tajo expresses suspicion of Kast:

@Tajo-
Your pattern is kinda old. Each game we play you start by saying you hate me for my wallotexts. Then you proceed to wall it up yourself and admit I'm town when you finally read my posts.

LLD doesn't like Kast:

Of the players in the bloc, I'm liking LLD the least; she pretty much just called all the other members townies based on...playing with them before?; sheeped/buddied/whatever you want to call it the reads of her proclaimed townies, then took some WTF?! potshots at her "approved" scum list.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

This shit is all eye-rollingly terrible crap. He has constantly attempted to discredit EVERY PERSON IN THE THREAD WHO SUGGESTS HE'S SCUMMY OR SCUM.

He's doing this BLATANTLY folks. He's told me to my face he has no intention of fucking stopping. He's a blantant motherfucking scumbag who is discrediting players left and right, making no attempts to scumhunt, and is fucking just sitting there whining, scumplaining, and insulting people.

This isn't even going into the WALLS of shit he's posted about me and CandleJack.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS THREAD WHO IS NOT VOTING KAST AFTER THIS POST WILL GIVE ME A GOOD REASON WHY OR I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AFTER THE KAST SCUMFLIP.

[GreyICE]

@Vollkan: Interesting idea. However, Nocmen supplied his actual argument against Kast:

@Kast: There's a difference between posting fluff and posting reads. Votes don't always need to happen, but I will go after someone for not posting any reads, making it too easy for scum to get away with that. Also, you seem very against Grey's claim, and if you are...why aren't you voting him?

Why that's... substantially different than how it appears from the rebuttal, isn't it? Why it's almost like Kast is creating a made up position that he's misrepresenting onto his detractor, and then rebutting that completely fictitious position in his posts. Damn I need a less wordy name for that.

As for LLD, she specifically says this:

I don't need to explain my town reads. If I read someone as town, I just need to state "they're town". That's it.

What Kast is doing is implying that a lack of reasoning displayed for her

town reads

also correlates to a lack of reasoning for her

scum reads

. Which she correctly notes he doesn't address, except to throw more shit at her and hope it sticks.

The Scummiest of the Scum (AKA: Need to die)
-----------------------------------------------------
Stevie
Lobster
Amrun
Drew
Ace
Antifinity

Kast

(Bolding added)

Can't see any reason for that, nope.

[GreyICE]

@Vollkan: No.

I'm saying that Kast's presented line of argument is such:

1) LLD's town reads do not have well presented reasons.
2) Her scum reads match the scum reads of many of her town reads.
3) Therefore she is not engaging in independent reasoning, and all of her reads have no valid reasoning behind them

It's not a line of reasoning, it's bullshit flim-flam you throw around to discredit people.

[GreyICE]

I think you have a good case against Kast GI...considering nobody is voting with me against ace (who i still maintain is the most scummy person from D1) I will unvote, vote: Kast

Again, more words when I get home but aside from this being bad on its own EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING says the ace vote is a bus.

REMEMBER THIS I BEG THEE

Did anything I wrote change your opinion on Kast at all, or was it all things you noted, and consider either town tell, null tell, or mild scum tell but not overwhelming enough to override other strong town tells you've gotten off him?

[GreyICE]

Kast is at L-2.

Hold the F up.

Unvote

No.

Lets hammer scum without a claim.

[GreyICE]

I know this sort of largesse is sort of part of your playstyle...but how on earth is this helpful?

How is it helpful to leave scum alive longer? How is it helpful to unvote them? How is it helpful to see if they get some more time to come up with a brand new claim idiot townies will believe?

It takes seconds to claim, and a lifetime to fabricate the perfect claim.

I want Kast dead. Whyever would I sanction people unvoting because they think he's dying TOO QUICKLY? There's no mass claim situation, no need to coordinate night actions, no reason to hold up a wagon on scum to see if someone has a cool new saying.

I agree short days are bad for the town. We're on page 30. Day hasn't been short.

I see town voting for a scumbag that everyone has had in the back of their minds as scummy, and hasn't really wanted to say anything because a few people have him as town, and he bites the head off anyone who criticizes him, insults and belittles them, AND GETS THE FUCK AWAY WITH IT.

It's not a playstyle disagreement. My problem is that the specific playstyle has a name - SCUM.

And I'm going to fucking lynch that.

[GreyICE]

er, Kast went from 0 votes to 9 votes in 24 hours.

Basically, this alone makes me not like the wagon. Actually, scratch that; the fact that I didn't see Kast as

that

scummy in addition to the wagon blowing up overnight makes me not like it. And what

Iec

said about it being the end of the day, ergo townies being more willing to vote &c.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Interesting Pom. I've seen 3 wagons I'd call 'flash wagons' that shot out of nowhere so far. Two hit scum.

Obviously past results indicators future results yadda yadda yadda but would you say scum are more likely to be fast and loose with their vote, or conservative and play it safe?

[GreyICE]

This is the sort of over-generalisation that underpins boilerplate scumtells. Many people play conservatively as scum. Many people will play more haphazardly and/or opportunistically. For some, opportunism vs conservatism will be alignment-independent.

Either way, there are good reasons, based if nothing else on the quality of reasoning, which make flash wagons generally a bad thing.

I'm confused. Are you saying flash wagons always have poor reasoning, or that

this specific

wagon has poor reasoning? Certainly for someone who just accused me of over-generalizing saying every fast-moving wagon has poor reasoning is an over-generalization par excellence.

[GreyICE]

Neither. I am saying that flash wagons

generally

involve poorer reasoning than most wagons - since pretty much by definition they are a wagon where there is less deliberation than normal. Of course, a flash wagon might well spring up for very legitimate reasons (eg. somebody claiming scum), but I suspect such cases are a minority.

So you would say that speed is inherently no reason to believe that a wagon is on town, simply that it is a reason to believe there hasn't been a long debate? Because I think you overlook something - debate does not need to occur in context of L-1

Saying that we haven't been discussing Kast's alignment is false. Plenty of people have been poking at it, the fact that votes are going where the mouths have been is good juju in my book.

[GreyICE]

Unvote

As far as I'm concerned, Kast is now confirmed town. GreyICE: Unvote him in your next post or die.

Claim: Magi supercomputer

There are in fact three Magi supercomputers in the game (remember that mysterious number 3 I mentioned earlier?). We were already confirmed town, but thanks for reinforcing us. Our ability class should be fairly obvious.

At this point, D1 massclaim is an option that should be considered (Tar + confirmed town + alive at massclaim is generally extremely good for town).

What.

The.

Fuck.

Kast STILL complains that it's butthurt from some other game. He didn't even RESPOND to anything I posted. He was just like 'oh my god, everyone voting for me sucks, lolololol'

Fucking tired of this fucking claim fucking bullshit.

Kast, you are playing like scum, I want you dead, dead, dead, dead, dead.

I feel like this is PYP take 2. I see obvious fucking scum in front of me and people are like "no trolololol, flavor numbers bullshit, here have a shit sandwich and grin" and I'm supposed to go "yes sir, thank you sir, please may I have another sir."

Can't lynch stevie, can't lynch Kast, have to go find some fucking townies to lynch, lets choose someone whose playing exactly like town! Maybe they won't have a nifty claim on hand! Lets try a day 1 mass claim, that always works!

Vote: Stevie

[GreyICE]

Come on now his is the "easiest" to confirm.

We give him a nice little list and those die.

If more than than die later we know.

If those don't die we know.

And scum claiming vig? Wooooo nelly.

Untargetable (bulletproof) vig doesn't ring ANY bells SpyreX?

[GreyICE]

Still loathe to kill Rei, and I think I know what he's claiming, but a double check won't go amiss so here's a compromise position:

Stevie, please identify your role class (manipulative, protective, investigative, killing, or special action; manipulative modifies one or more target players' actions, protective modifies actions targeting one or more players, special actions). This should still prevent scum from knowing what your role does.

- Tar

Hey Tar, new flavor of the week is 'lets not let the town learn anything from roles, trololol.' Like, scum with a dayvig ability, scum with tracking, scum with all sorts of random shit.

We've had three fucking claims that make everyone go "no lets unvote."|

I do not for one millisecond believe that all three players who claimed are town. One. Millisecond. The odds that all three claims are town who just happen to have really confirmable roles and are ALSO playing similar to scum are 0. ZERO.

This is downright role fishing with wagons at this point. Kast has some complex ability that

can't

go to scum, obv obv obv, so he's not scum despite playing just like it. Stevie has a nifty fakeclaim that he didn't even claim so he must be town, trololol. Malthusis claimed FUCKING BULLETPROOF VIGILANTE. And lets unvote, trololol.

Yeah this ain't three townies. I wouldn't be surprised if it ain't ONE townie.

[GreyICE]

Untargetable (bulletproof) vig doesn't ring ANY bells SpyreX?

I'm tired help me out here.

Seriously though what scum goes SUP I AM VIG unless there's waaacky mechanics at play?

The
Serial
Killer

[GreyICE]

Actually, now that I think about it... why the HELL am I considering SpyreX town, especially after I went and looked at recent stuff and he has hydra antipathy that he's shown no sign of here?

FoS: SpyreX

(Current thoughts on voting block: I'm confirmed town, LLD is town, GreyICE is town, SpyreX is most likely scum in the block, Tajo needs a closer look.)

Meta reasons like that are by definition bullshit. No one is good enough to avoid the confirmation bias inherent in thinking how a player has acted in the past and then comparing it to how they're acting now. Everyone changes over time.

That being said, it's occurred to me that SpyreX is a cheeky scumbag with his 'Oh, there's AT MOST one scum in the town block' [and it's me!] but he's playing town enough. Certainly not going to make the top 5 scummy people in the thread list.

[GreyICE]

I don't buy it. Airstrike? That doesn't seem right to me.

this might be too easy but hey its worth the try:

Kast and stevie, do your abilities have flavorful names like "airstrike"?

Mine does.

[GreyICE]

That's not news to me - I'm one of the mods who STARTED that trend (*COUGHMINDSCREWCOUGH*). You can still ma

Agree.

Protip: malthusis's claim is 99% lie. I made that clear early on (though I forgot to note that the ability doesn't fit flavor even setting aside issues of Misato being the single most likely safeclaim in the game by my reckoning). However, stock play with 1-shot vigs with shots remaining is to leave them be for a day and ask them to fire, THEN lynch them. Besides, it would give us an opportunity to test the ability I'm 99% sure Stevie is claiming.

The other two have, respectively, claims that make much more flavor sense (assuming I know what StevieRei is claiming*), and a confirmable ability paired with rolebased that I KNOW is correct.

* - If I saw that ability being hinted from ANY other character I would lynch it, but it makes WAY too much sense on Rei.

What the fuck I don't even see why Rei would be town in NGE mafia. REI'S A FUCKING ANGEL IN

END OF EVANGELION

.

SHE'S MOTHERFUCKING LILITH.

THERE NOW I'VE DESCENDED TO THE LEVEL OF ARGUING FLAVOR. I'M IN PAIN. PHYSICAL PAIN. EVEN IF HE'S CONFIRMED REI THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE HOST OF MOTHERFUCKING

LILITH

MOTHERFUCKING CONFIRMED TOWN.

SO WHAT THE HELL WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO LETS LYNCH SOMEONE LESS SCUMMY THAN ONE OF THESE 'TARDS?

[GreyICE]

Not Voting (5) - Kawaii, vollkan, Starbuck, malthusis, Antifinity

This has got to be the biggest port of failure I've ever seen. Everyone on that list should die.

[GreyICE]

Bet dollars to donuts from that flavor someone just alignment switched.

Usually costs the scum a night kill to recruit, and look what's missing.

Anyone wanna earn some brownie points and look through the thread for traitor breadcrumbs?

[GreyICE]

The "Magi Complete System Check" followed by the "The game state may have changed, although you're not certain how" thing makes me suspect the Magi masons may no longer all be town.

Vote: Antifinity

Reaks of Insider Info.

It actually feels more like flavor knowledge. The dialogue is taken straight from episode 13, where the angel takes over two of the three Magi supercomputers.

Flavor speculation, blah, blah, but it's an awfully suspicious choice.

[GreyICE]

Yeah but the following has occurred:

1) We've been informed the gamestate has changed in an unknown way
2) It clearly references the episode where the magi supercomputers are infected by an Angel and turn against NERV.

So yeah, I'd be at least suspicious that a Magi supercomputer is no longer confirmed town.

[GreyICE]

Oh yeah, number three:

- Traitors typically cost the scum a night kill to recruit
- Missing night kill

[GreyICE]

Okay, the upside to all this annoying speculation. If Kast is some sort of Maji recruiter that punishes mass claim, we can confirm it easily.

Vote: Kast

Sorry CJ, but I'm so not trusting you today.

[GreyICE]

No I have a better idea, lets lynch Kast.

Upsides:

- We have one claimed Magi computer, one claimed Magi targeter, and one case of mod-confirmed shenanigans. This is the most obvious case of 2+2 I've ever seen, and I don't see why the speculation is ever going to fade. It's not like CJ can day cop Kast and then say 'oh well he's town' here.
- The 'town' masons aren't confirmed town anymore. Period. Scum Kast tells us CJ-scum is now a fact, and probably goes a long way towards confirming the infection (I imagine if Kast is scum, CJ will claim to have been cleansed tomorrow, but my belief in this will be ABSOLUTE ZERO).
- DEAD KAST! Like... twist my motherfucking arm.

Anyone suggesting another lynch will have to explain why they think CJ is still town, and why Kast is town in the first place.

[GreyICE]

So we don't lynch obvious scum because... they're too obvious, they have to be town? Between play, role claims, and moderator messages, everything is pointing straight at Kast being scum.

Fuck it.

I feel like there's people nodding their heads and going "no there's at most one scum in the 6s so we should totally lynch someone besides Faraday despite the fact he's like obvious scum x10"

[GreyICE]

So we don't lynch obvious scum because... they're too obvious, they have to be town? Between play, role claims, and moderator messages, everything is pointing straight at Kast being scum.

Fuck it.

I feel like there's people nodding their heads and going "no there's at most one scum in the 6s so we should totally lynch someone besides Faraday despite the fact he's like obvious scum x10"

DON'T EVEN.

YOU TRIED TO LYNCH ME, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT WAS PAGE ONE RVS VOTE WAS RANDOM

JESUS CHRIST I WAS RAISING A SUBJECT NOT SUGGESTING THAT I HAD AN AIRTIGHT SCUMREAD ON YOU AFTER YOUR FIRST FUCKING POST IN THE THREAD.

[GreyICE]

Fair enough.

Unvote

TBH it has occurred to me that

anyone

with a Magi targeting role would have known to hit CJ yesterday, so the biggest fact we're faced with is CJ-town being a total crapshoot at this point. But a Kast lynch is so much juicy goodness.

Lets see what the amazing Lilith - I mean Rei - has for us.

[GreyICE]

I'm a simple man.

I say kill everyone until things make sense.

[GreyICE]

Bardiel?

Bardiel assimilated Eva-00, the Eva piloted by Rei.

Ireul was what infected the Magi supercomputers.

I am now hella fucking confused.

[GreyICE]

Okay, fuck it. There's a difference between flavor gaming and using what we're given. This is the latter.

Iruel was defeated by Ritsuko when Ritsuko used a program to flush it out of the Magi systems. This implies the following:

-Some number of Magi are still town
-If the Magi are being infected, we have something we can do to stop it
-Stevie's claim is scummy as hell

My major worry here is that Stevie is Judas - Rei 2 being obv town aligned, Rei 3 being obv scum aligned.

Now, before LLD hunts down my address and strangles me with a power cord, here's the nice tidy package that I'm left with:

1) Stevie

- Stevie's claim is scummy. Fate is a herp-a-derp, but the motto 'anyone who claims a role that only works on death should find the role immediately tested' is a solid one.

- SpyreX being the one converted by BARDIEL is like 'lolwut.'

- If Stevie dies and comes back, odds are good he's scum, scum, scum.

I'm sorely tempted to just lynch Stevie.


2) SpyreX

- Is a useless mongoose. This is what lost the town the game in Brotherhood, and if I were town I'd have snapped a keyboard in half. You only ask to die when you have a series of night actions that guarantees victory for the town if a certain pattern of people die in a certain order. I've had games that broke that way, but this is this and that is that.
2) SpyreX

- Is probably town. He's just being SO bad that I think he'd actually try and fight this were he really scum. Plus, scum SpyreX sacrificing himself to 'confirm' scum Stevie is the only scenario I can see playing out where he's actually scum. And that's just retarded.

- Is basically role claiming Shinji in real life. Dude, Shinji was a pussy. You didn't see Asuka being like "Oh no things are bad, I better give up." That's why she's the main character - she took down eight advance model Evas that were Angel controlled in a 1st generation suit - in under a minute. Shinji couldn't take down ONE in a super-powered Eva that had a built in generator that suped it up to ridiculous levels AND an ultra-competent partner who could easily hold her own with some support. That's why he's a useless chump who died in Episode 3 and she's the main character (THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT).

- Is still probably town. Even if I want to smack him so hard right now.


3) Kast

- is like... most definitely scum. I hate him so much that were I any sort of vig he'd have every bullet I have lodged in his frame. Were an inventor to give me a gun, I'd submit the kill within 30 seconds of seeing the PM. Were he to get one vote, I'd vote for him to be lynched. Were it LyLo, I'd drop a vote on him without a second thought. In my first post. Without any other words whatsoever.

I. Want. Him. Dead.

I don't want power roles, I don't want investigative results, I don't want flavor claims, or hard claims, or motherfucking flying pigeons. I want him mod. confirmed. corpse.

He was obvious scum on page 4. He'll be obvious scum on page 40. I'm sure that were this to roll to page 400, he'd still be obvious goddamn scum. I want to kill. Kill. I want to see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL.

4) Everyone else

Needs less dead than Stevie and Kast. That being said, a few of the lurkers are most definitely scum.

Vote:Stevie

KILL KILL KILL

PEdit:

Vote SpyreX

Fuck it, two self votes, and I don't care if you were mod confirmed town, you're too fucking stupid to live. Plus if there was one scum in the 'townie alliance' it was you with your cheeky 'heh there's no more than ONE SCUM AT MOST in this alliance' shit.

[GreyICE]

Just so we're clear:

I had demons yesterday via PM.
Flavor says Magi's are infected.
Stewie says I'm angel.
CJ says I'm an angel.

This is not true. HOwever, believing that scum would go whole hog is nuts.

Lynching a mason on my word is nuts.

So, lynch me I flip town party time.

IM IGNORING ALL OF THIS AFTER YOU DIE IF UR TOWN JUST TO SPITE U FOR HOW DUMB A MOVE THIS WOULD BE FOR ANY TOWNIE

[GreyICE]

What?

WHAT?

I could be infected and that could be what spawned all this.

However, AS OF RIGHT NOW, I am town and if I'm going to die I want to die AS TOWN and a.) let this get cleared out and b.) be town because I think we can win this.

So fight it goddamn you.

Seriously, look at Eva. Asuka took down 8 second generation Evas in her first generation model, in under a minute. Shinji didn't take down ONE with his super powered reactor implanted berserker suit. Hell, his suit was more effective at killing angels WHEN HE WASN'T PILOTING IT. That's why Asuka was the main character and Shinji died in episode 4 (THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT)

Kast caused CJ to claim
Kast gave CJ the "investigation"
Kast is responsible for this corruption

Kast is the source of all your woes. Lynch Kast with me. OR KEEP BEING A FUCKING SHINJI AND WHINING ABOUT HOW TOUGH YOU HAVE IT DAMMIT

[GreyICE]

The problem with that version of reality is that it proposes that Stevie and CJ and Kast (and soon SX) are all scum AFAICT.

This involves me lynching Kast. I'll work out the rest of the details later. Maybe Kast gave an insane cop investigation to CJ, or a paranoid cop investigation, and he's some sort of scum inventor.

This works, and Kast dies.

[GreyICE]

Yes, the sane theory is that Kast is scum inventor with 100% dud inventions to give out.

This might mean we have to lynch Stevie, but as much as that turn of events would distress me terribly, I could come around to it... okay, lets do it!

[GreyICE]

Yep mason is scum. Other one needs to claim right now.

[GreyICE]

I think tomorrow we should look back at

vollkan

's stuff, depending on the flip and whatnot.

Oh man, freebee.

Vote: Vollkan

Stevie = Scum
Vollkan = scum
Kast = Scum

This is like money in the goddamn bank here.

no claims until they're dead.

[GreyICE]

CandleJack, you got a fucking GUILTY on motherfucking TOWN.

No fucking way in the 9 cold hells I'd lynch Nocmen over you.

[GreyICE]

I think tomorrow we should look back at

vollkan

's stuff,

depending on the flip and whatnot.

I think tomorrow we should look back at

vollkan

's stuff, depending on the flip and whatnot.

And zellink, he was really wishy washy today.

No, I was referring to #1051. I think vollkan is town.

SHE COULDN'T ACTUALLY BREADCRUMB THIS HARDER DREW

[GreyICE]

btw, lol at the mod agreeing shinji is a pussy.

[GreyICE]

i am curious for nocmens thoughts on CJ.

Why?

If Nocmen's dead town tomorrow we kill CJ. If Nocmen is dead scum, we think long and hard about killing CJ anyway.

[GreyICE]

CandleJack, you got a fucking GUILTY on motherfucking TOWN.

Awesome, that should tell you that something is at play here besides our investigation. We're not sure what, but it is something. We're not stupid enough to throw down a guilty on someone somebody else already claimed a guilty on, in a kamikaze effort to get a lynch off.

This isn't even the usualy so-so logic I expect from people, Its an anti-town way of thinking. And the fact everybody is ready to chain six hundred lynches off on either one of 4 players is anti-town as well.

Oh shut up, scumbag.

You were willing to lynch either Nocmen OR Vollkan... i.e. either a person who used to be your mason buddy or the PERSON THE TOWN HIDER DIED FROM HIDING BEHIND?!?

This ain't the careful, thoughtful CandleJack we had on day 1, and I ain't afraid to say so.

I'll string you up ages before Nocmen, so shut the fuck up about how it's anti-town to suspect the person WHO CLAIMED A GUILTY ON TOWN and start scumhunting.

[GreyICE]

Well lets see.

Town got lynched yesterday, due to a claimed guilty.

Which faction does that help, exactly?

Seriously, did you just ask 'what's the scum motivation to cop a guilty on town?'

I'm fucking frying you.

[GreyICE]

Oh come on.

I'd think town CJ would wanna lynch the guy who, I dunno, gave him the insane/paranoid daycop.

This is like 'welp, threw away my life, lets see if I can get another mislynch out of it trololol'

Pedit: cool, scumclaim.

[GreyICE]

I'd say that there's a 99% chance that CJ is lying and a 1% chance that Kast put a cult recruiter in a game without a GODDAMN TOWN VIGILANTE.

[GreyICE]

heh, It sucks beind outed because of that huh?

Don't want to vote buddy vollkan down?

Oh come on ML, Tar sees the problem.

With only one town-sided kill, this game can hit the cult treadmill.

i.e.

"12 town, 3 cult" - Cult lynched
"11 town, 3 cult" - Cult lynched
"10 town, 3 cult"...

No competent designer includes ZERO town aligned kills outside of a single lynch in a game with a cult. No reviewer lets it past them.

If you flip the way you say you will, maybe I'll give a shit, but that was a scumclaim lol

[GreyICE]

OTOH an ability that counteracts a pro-town masonry with potentially other abilities by hardcore punishing them for claiming makes perfect sense.

Heh, next time discuss these things with arguably the most knowledgeable designer on MafiaScum before claiming ML

[GreyICE]

Hah no

[GreyICE]

....................................................................

....................................................................

Fuck this, our vigilante wasn't even playing the game so we didn't shoot claimed scum?

...................................................................

Just fuck this noise.

Vote CandleJack

This isn't even funny anymore.

[GreyICE]

So the SpyreX stuff was 100% made up?

Then why aren't you more suspicious of Stevie, who claimed the same thing?

HE'S SCUM

I SWEAR UNTO MOTHERFUCKING GOD THE NEXT PERSON WHO STARTS ARGUING WITH CLAIMED SCUM LIKE THEY'RE ACTUALLY TOWN IS IN FOR SO MUCH SHIT.

CandleJack, if you want to give away more angels so that when you flip cult we go after angels not the CR, uh... knock yourself out. W/E. It's probably all WIFOM, but this is this and that is that.

Also my god if we had a town aligned vig we could have shot stevie D1, SpyreX day 2, lynch CJ, Kast D3 and then lynch other people because the same dumb fuckers we had on day 1 are still dumb fucks who need to die.

Katsuki, Kise, fuck the both of you.

[GreyICE]

On the downside btw this means that the scum have a role cop, since there's no way Kawaii's 4 posts or w/e made them obv night kill targets.

[GreyICE]

Okay, in case there actually is a cult and I'm recruited tonight, I'm posting this. Because fuck the cult, I have a town win condition this means I win with the town, period, end of story.

CJ isn't a bad player. AT ALL. He claimed scum yesterday for a reason. Either it was to hand us cult speculation after Amrun's silly claim D1, and he's an Angel and he wanted to see if he could get a nocmen mislynch (FYI the angels corrupted two computers still v possible that CJ is trying to confirm Nocmen town here). OR it was because he's cult, and we were endangering his win condition.

He's shielding someone. Maybe he's doing like me and jestering himself to death in protest of having a win condition changed, but maybe Kast and/or Stevie or another person we were likely to lynch after SpyreX day 2 is the recruiter.

I thought we'd be better off day 1 with all three wagons dead, and WE WOULD HAVE BEEN.

[GreyICE]

HOLD ON A SEC

CANDLEJACK WANTS TO GET LYNCHED WHICH MEANS HE IS TRYING TO PROTECT SOMEONE

SHOULDNT WE BE LYNCHING ONE OF KAST OR STEVIE?

WIFOM dude.

He claimed AFTER claiming a guilty on town. Copping a guilty on town is a scum claim, this is the only possible way he could have:

1) Gotten Nocmen lynched
2) possibly survived today

So we lynch him and find out if there's a cult or not, jesus this is math

[GreyICE]

OH AND PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME! so i can be cleared as there's no way through my play that I'm going to convince you guys i am town.

No you never investigate people who are asking to be investigated, it's just a godfather claim.

[GreyICE]

IT'S TOO OBVIOUS THAT THE SCUM IS SCUM WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEONE WHO ISN'T SCUM HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

SHUT UP

[GreyICE]

Hey tajo, this is serious.

Shut. The. Fuck. Up. Now.

[GreyICE]

This takes priority over confirming the existence of a FUCKING GODDAMN CULT why exactly?

[GreyICE]

No, it soft confirms that the angels have the power to recruit Magi, which is flavorful.

It does NOT confirm that the angels or anyone else can convert or be converted. Since tar claimed a non-angel conversion (say what) then that there's a THIRD faction in this game is a nice piece of advice.

[GreyICE]

Stevie we need to know exactly what you got from the moderator. Now.

[GreyICE]

25 players

Most likely setup:
4 Mafia
1 Traitor
1 SK

Could get odder, but 5+1 scum is rather intense. I'd expect the town to be nearly VT free at that point. Look at the roles:

Hider - cop that commits suicide
Honorable Vigilante - Either commits suicide or stops vigging when they hit town
Mason/Neighbor - god they're so much worse than masons it isn't even funny.

Not really town powerhouses.

So we've got 2 scum and the SK.

Most likely 11:3

[GreyICE]

Vote : Stevie

Do not respond to this with any flavor wifom

His role claim SCREAMS Judas (Rei 2 = town, Rei 3 = scum) but at the end of the day flavor and role NEVER trumps play

[GreyICE]

Terrible mechanic, Anti. Terrible mechanic.

I don't support a mass role name claim unless someone comes up with an idea why. Flavor is not going to come into play here unless I see a good reason for it.

[GreyICE]

Why are you so convinced about not using anything regarding flavor? Look at the malth flip, I know one of the reasons I was for his lynch was because his role didn't match his flavor.

He was lynched because he claimed BULLETPROOF UNINVESTIGATABLE VIGILANTE.

He literally claimed serial killer.

Flavor played no part in this.

All I see flavor doing is clearing scummy people and letting our real scum walk around scott free. When was the last fucking time Kast said anything interesting?

[GreyICE]

Candlejack was town day 1 you enormous walking lynch magnet.

I swear unto fucking god if you're town I'm just going to cry.

Vote: Kast

I cannnnoooootttt take this shit anymore

[GreyICE]

Point?

VOTE: KAST

Every living townie needs to be doing this right the fuck now.

[GreyICE]

Seriously, here's what I'm going to post while kast is alive:

Vote: Kast

Prod dodge.


That's it. Because you don't deserve anything more if you look at Kast's bullshit claims and bullshit actions and bullshit reads and bullshit posts and think 'oh he's town.'

My fucking god.

[GreyICE]

Ace is mad his buddy's claim isn't working. And they planned it so well in the QT too.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: KAST

[GreyICE]

If this is a mislynch, I'm sooooo past caring.

[GreyICE]

VOTE: KAST

[GreyICE]

We can't treat lurking days 3 and 4 as scum tells because they were just so bloody short. If anything scum would have done little dances to bus them - there's no concern they would flip town anywhere and they were obv going to be the lynches. For that instance I actually gave a mild town tell for Tajo for the entire 'wait maybe CJ is telling the truth bit' just because I can't see scum actually trying to convincingly sell that. Not that it matters, dead townies were town who knew.

Bah okay, new idea. Stevie isn't scum yet! I know, madness right.

Vote: Amrun

For not being town and well etc so

[GreyICE]

So I've been wondering based on that result from Pom if she has an immunity to trackers or if I was blocked in some way.

Or maybe you CAN'T SUCCESSFULLY TARGET HIDERS WHO HID

[GreyICE]

Also my vote is on Amrun so I am all levels of okay with not moving it.

[GreyICE]

Oh and FYI
If the following sequence of events occur:

1) Amrun flips scum
2) Starbuck dies tongiht
3) You claim a protective role

We lynch you for being obvscum.

So keep that in mind folks when you decide your night actions.

[GreyICE]

EBWOP: Now if Kawaii wasn't full of fail and had actually targeted someone then GI should have been there.

No because I wouldn't have been tracked.

If you TRACK me I will target everyone who dies at night.
If you WATCH a night kill then I will be one of the players who target them.

Do I have to draw a map?

[GreyICE]

Masons having daytalk does not imply scum do

[GreyICE]

Oh lawlz

ace5993 (2) - Kast, StevieT92
Kast (3) - ZeL1nK, Antifinity, GhostWriter
Not Voting (3) - Iecerint, Surye, Nocmen

DERE BE SCUM IN DEM DERE HILLZ

Amrun flip will tell us a lot about Stevie.

I'd say there has to be scum on the Kast wagon, but he's such an anti-town fuck that I'm tempted to say that town is most likely to be voting for him due to the scum liking him alive.

So, well, Icerint and Surye need some SERIOUS interrogation.

[GreyICE]

Oh and if Ghostwriter wants to lynch Kast, I'm RIGHT THERE.

Even though he's scum and Kast is town, but well

[GreyICE]

Best modkill ever, or

best modkill ever?

I'm so happy right now.

[GreyICE]

Hi all.
I'm reading the thread. If anyone wants to give me a quick run down of some major points (claims, confirm town, etc) that would be great.

Claims:

Nocmen was part of a 3 man

masonry

neighborhood where one of the members was turned into scum and another has been night killed. The trigger for the 1st turning into scum was the lack of a night kill. No kill occurred last night. No message from mod though. No dead Ireul either, SOOOOOOO
Lobster Catapult was apparently investigated by Nocmen with a day investigate given to him by Kast, and came up town.
Stevie claimed to be Judas who turns into scum after he's killed. May be scum already, play suggests this.
I claimed to be (and am) a variant miller who when tracked will target any night kill and if any night kill is watched, will be seen as targeting. I investigate as town.

Think that's about it.

Patterns: We've lynched SK day 1, town day 2, scum day 3, scum day 4, scum day 5.

Probs 2 scum left at most.

[GreyICE]

Did Stevie explicitly claim to turn scum after death? I thought that was just set-up spec because of how Rei 2 is more human-y than Rei 3.

I say that he did, and my track record so far is sexy as hell, so that means I'm right about this too.

Lets face it, Iecerint, that logic there? Unimpeachable.

[GreyICE]

If Steview has been scummy and claims he turns scum when he dies, why hasn't he been lynched yet or double shoot at by the vig?
Or does he become his own scum team and therefore we are hoping that he just doesn't turn into scum?

The less said about the vig incident the better.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Timeeater

It's so nice to know that we were right on two of three day 1, and BYE KAST YOU SUCKED LOL

[GreyICE]

My intent? At this point right now? Lynch Timeater.

Think about it for a second, then agree with me.

[GreyICE]

My intent? At this point right now? Lynch Timeater.

Think about it for a second, then agree with me.

I thought about for a second and concluded that lynching Tim, even if he is a Judas, is a horrible idea. Could you elaborate?

'cause he's just scum. Silly rabbit wants to earn his scumwings by mislynching me. He's a hundred years too early to be doing that.

My intent? At this point right now? Lynch Timeater.

Think about it for a second, then agree with me.

...i just dont see...time eater being scum d1, esp with that vollkan quote i posted earlier.

i dont see how he could have been killed to spark his "judas ability" you believe in either. it didnt happen last night, and with amruns shenanigans it most likely didnt happen n2.

even if this judas thing is real. timeeater for the time being, is still town.

so....lets find scum that is scum

d6

, and worry about timeeater later.

what do you think of ghostwriter?

I am tired and in the middle of nowhere, so no real analysis here, but if the 'judas ability' triggered, it was said that the mod would confirm that he died first. I mean, he said it, so no promises I guess? It would make sense though. /ramble. I'm gonna go with a

vote:Celebloki

because I don't want to hold up the bandwagon by not being here. I should be back in a day or two. I don't know jack, but if anyone has any questions for me, I'll answer them then and change my vote.

This on the other hand is scum too.

Vote: Antifinity

[GreyICE]

Hey! I know a way to mod confirm Antifinity's alignment!

[GreyICE]

Hey! I know a way to mod confirm Antifinity's alignment!

Elaborate?

You ask the moderator nicely to post anti's alignment in thread!

[GreyICE]

Was it his brilliant "I'm going to replace in and pitch a shit fit about dumb stuff?" Was it his amazing use of the Ashmed tell where instead of saying his former slot was scummy he went out of his way to say how town they were? Or is it just the way that he doesn't seem to have read anything OTHER than the ISO of his former slot occupant, almost as if what that player did and said were more important than who was town or scum?

Oy, Lobster, why do I need to explain these things?

A vote for Celeblokies is a vote for failure.

[GreyICE]

Anti is at L-1.

Vote.

[GreyICE]

Though wait a second.

Did Ace just panic that Anti would be lynched while LEAVING HIS VOTE ON ANTI?

Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

[GreyICE]

I think we could afford a third wagon today, just one more, this could be in our budget...

Vote: Ace

Hey Ace, wagons serving purposes...

[GreyICE]

Wouldn't unvoting go a longer way towards preventing an accidental hammer?

Or is that just townie sounding noise, Ace?

[GreyICE]

Hold up folks, not overly interested in the antifinity claim until we get this shit ironed out. Nocmen, unvote.

Unless with a dead roleblocker and the amount of dead scum it's mass claim time, which I'm still leaning towards no. I think tomorrow is officially mass claim day.

Wouldn't unvoting go a longer way towards preventing an accidental hammer?

Or is that just townie sounding noise, Ace?

Unvoting also decreases pressure and often ends up derailing the wagon.

So you're fairly certain he's scum, then, yes?

You voted because you think he's a good wagon. Expand, Ace, why is he a good wagon? Why are you fine with him getting lynched? Why do you want him dead? What reasoning are you using?


This is the first post you make in the game, Ace.

Vote: SpyreX

for not voting anyone. Also a serious vote.

Amrun's cult mention is horrible.

Since I don't like leaving RVS without a random vote I'll compromise with a

OMGUS FoS: drewoftherushes

You FOS scum, Ace, and then you vote for town.

That's a good reason to lynch someone. That? That's actually a very fucking good reason to lynch someone, with the way you phrased it.

Far better than your expressed reasons for wanting antifinity lynched.

Sit down and sort your shit out, ace, why are we not killing you?

[GreyICE]

Bucky tracking me would show that I'm either a scumbag submitting a night kill, or a townie tracking to the night kill, unless you think there's an especial reason that there should be a two kill night coming up. Claim wasn't for TRACKERS, it was for WATCHERS. Who should claim if and only if they get good results.

Ace's answer ceases to thrill.

TimEater (poor Tim) remains scum, could choose to follow bunnylover.

[GreyICE]

No hammers, lynch Ace.

Timbeater is scum too.

[GreyICE]

I swear unto god, ghostwriter, I told them you were scum to keep both of us alive another day, now fucking sheep me this one fucking time and if it's green I'll sheep you tomorrow.

You know things go better when we play in my order, just fucking do it. For me?

[GreyICE]

Are you kidding me that vollkan post is part of what has me leaning town vollkan is too much of a pussy to support a scumbuddy if he thinks scumbuddy is slipping up.

[GreyICE]

Meeeettttttaaaaaaaa now he's confirmed town lol

[GreyICE]

Hey iecerint vote ace

[GreyICE]

So, ace is scum.

'sup, thread?

[GreyICE]

Antifinity (5) - Timeater, ace5993, Celebloki, Starbuck, LobsterCatapult
Timeater (1) - Bunnylover
Not Voting (2) - Iecerint, ZeL1nK

Last one is up there.

I'd like to say it's our favorite cannibal, TimEater, but I think he's just kast 2.0.

Yeah. It's bunnylover

[GreyICE]

Hi. I'm going to be V/LA for 3 days. :X

I want Anti dead. I'm not voting for anyone else any time soon. He's obviously scum. Grey's flinching should be noted after he flips.

[GreyICE]

And, it's bunnylover.

Whose house?

Yeah.

Ace+Bunnylover.

GW and Nocmen, if I wake up dead, those are your marching orders. Fucking listen this time.

[GreyICE]

Don't worry, ace is next Grey.

Bunnylover, derp~

Ace is obv, I worked hard to find the last one dammit.

[GreyICE]

lol yeah there's obv a vig in the game that convinced me all town believe there's a vig in the game.

Awesome sauce

[GreyICE]

Vote: Ace

Sweet.

If we get a scumflip here does Starbuck's tracking start to confirm town?

Also dead bodyguard makes me feel VERY good about Starbuck all of a sudden.

[GreyICE]

Like did scum kill Lobster Catapault? Lemme check. No. He died protecting someone...

[GreyICE]

Vote: Ace

My other top scum slot. Was wrong about Anti but he sure didn't play very town.

And you've done WHAT exactly?

I told you he was town. He played exactly like town. He flipped town. Why the HELL wasn't he town?

What is with this group of players?

LISTEN TO ME DAMMIT

PEDIT: NOCMEN GO READ HIS ISO JESUS

[GreyICE]

Mass claim day.

Go, bunnies, go

[GreyICE]

She wants the mason to go next.

Oh, ghost of robocopter, why do you haunt me

[GreyICE]

Are we discussing stuff during a mass claim?

Brains, you damn zombies~

[GreyICE]

VLA means exactly what it says

VLA through Sunday

[GreyICE]

Details on the RB action how does it work?

[GreyICE]

how does it work?

block active abilities (if successful).

Specific wording, night phase abilities?

[GreyICE]

GhostWriter 2011-08-10 02:03:30 11 days 19 hours 59

Are you
Fucking
Kidding
Me

[GreyICE]

I am Evangelion Unit-02 and a doc. A non-consecutive doc.

Uh... okay, GW.

So you've done what exactly?

NICE CLAIM THAT TOOK YOU TWO WEEKS TO PUT TOGETHER?

[GreyICE]

Bah who cares, you should have lynched him back when I ORDERED you to, Iecerint.

Don't think I've forgotten everyone who didn't.

[GreyICE]

N1?

[GreyICE]

So you decided not to use your doctor ability both night one and night two?

[GreyICE]

*thud*
*thud*
*thud*

You didn't protect any of the CLAIMED MASONS night one or two because you didn't HAVE A STRONG TOWNREAD?!?

[GreyICE]

And you didn't protect Candle Jack night 1 which might have stopped the traitor recruit?!?

*cries*

Okay...

[GreyICE]

If the town wins this, I'm just submitting this as proof that day play eats night play.

The hider fails to hide night 1 (or breadcrumbs it so poorly we still can't find it), costing us a potential confirmation.

The vig fails to vig anyone including CONFIRMED SCUM (and yes I know what honorable means, you still shoot confirmed scum)

Tajo and Kast mail their night actions to the world

Tajo wanted to roleblock the town bodyguard anyway.

And now GW.

If he's town, that means Starbuck and Lobster Catapault were the only people who did anything constructive with their actions. And that's balanced out by two townies STABBING THEMSELVES TO DEATH.


---------------


Anyway, my role is Ryoji Kaji. My flavor is despite the fact that I appear to be working for Nerv, I am actually working for several organizations, and no one really knows my intentions.

My miller "ability" is called 'Triple Agent.'

[GreyICE]

All right! We pretty much have this.

Claims

Vanilla

Bunnylover

- Vanilla Townie (Makoto Hyuga)

Celebloski

- Macho Townie (Toji Suzuhara)

Iecerint

- Vanilla Townie (Hikari Horaki)

GreyICE

- Tracker/Watcher Miller (Ryoji Kaji) {Role Name: Grave Digger}

Power

Zel1nk

- Eva 05 JOAT
N1: Protected CJ
N2: Roleblocked Kast
N3: Watched Tajo

Nocmen

-

Mason

(Casper)

Timbo

- 1-shot Self Reviver (Rei Ayanami)

GhostWriter

- Alternating Night Doctor
N3: GI
N5: Starbuck
N7: GI

What has Flipped

Town

Antifinity

- Vanilla Townie

SpyreX

- Vanilla Townie

Investigative

Pomegranate

- Hider

Lady Lambdadelta

- Mason

Kast

- Modified Enabler/Inventor

drewoftherushes

- Unspecified Backup {Kast}

Starbuck

- Tracker

Protective

LobsterCatapult

- One-Shot-Bulletproof Bodyguard

populartajo

Roleblocker

Killing

Kawaii

- Honorable Day Vigilante



Scum

vollkan

- Modified Day Role Cop

Candle Jack

-

Infected Neighbor/Traitor

Amrun

- Modified Roleblocker/Rolestopper

ace5993

- Godfather

Third Party

malthusis

- Angel-Enabled Action-Immune Serial Killer

vollkan

-

Arael

(Modified Day Role Cop)

, lynched Day 3


Explanations:
Drew was almost certainly backup to Kast's role, as per the following:

First Lieutenant Maya Ibuki is one of the three main computer technicians at Nerv HQ, along with Makoto Hyuga and Shigeru Aoba, and serves directly under

Dr. Ritsuko Akagi

. Maya frequently acts as Ritsuko's assistant,

particularly with work on the Magi supercomputers that control the base

, and computer readouts from the the Evangelion units.

Claim verification:
Starbuck

Night 1 - Pomegranate, Not able to verify if she targeted someone
Night 2 - Kawaii, didn't target anyone
Night 3 - Kast targeted Nocmen

Night 4 - Amrun targeted Stevie

I Programmed: CJ on D1. I Programmed Pom on D2 since I thought she was town and also thought she was potentially CJ's less-obvious mason buddy due to her near blind obedience of his vote in the latter half of D2. I Programmed: Noc on D3 since he and CJ had claimed already. I submitted Program: Amrun after day ended on D4, and Kdub sent a confirmation that my action was received, but not positive if it counted (I think it did since he said action received). So if Amrun did not get a Daycop, then I'm assuming she's not a Supercomputer. I suspect there are no Supercomputers left, but not positive of that and it doesn't hurt to keep Programming on the off chance that there is another one.

Now, let us begin the great explanations on who we lynch and why. (I discount me for obvious reasons)
,
First, we have two confirmed town. Amrun RBed/RSed Stevie. Unless Amrun miracle guessed she'd be tracked that night and targeted a scumbuddy, that makes Stevie CONFIRMED TOWN. Nocmen is a mason, confirmed. Recruiting two masons is fairly swingy, and would make the scumteam a 3+2 traitor setup. The fact Iruel (the corruptor) flipped when CJ died makes me believe that Nocmen is CONFIRMED TOWN.

Lynch pool is now 5.

When I tried to move the wagon from Antifinity to Ace, we gained the following:

Antifinity (5)

- Timeater, ace5993, Celebloki, Starbuck, LobsterCatapult

ace5993 (4)

- GreyICE, Antifinity, GhostWriter, Nocmen

Bussing a partner can be good town tell, but scum-GW has no reason to bus scum-ace there. An ace scumflip would have virtually confirmed Anti due to Ace/Anti interactions, and another confirmed townie would have been DEVASTATING to the scum in this setup.

Therefore, GW is possible town. The action claim is STUPID, but probably town.

Lynch pool is now 4.

Cele claim could be a 'magical fluffy kitten' claim, but it's just odd enough to work. Add in a distinct lack of scummy play, and the lynch pool is now 3.


Iecerint
Bunnylover
Zel1nk

Next up, an examination.

[GreyICE]

Now, here's where my setup analysis comes into play.

23 players. Flipped, 4 scum, 1 SK, 11 town
Left: 8 players
Mini normal Distribution is 10:3. Scaled to 23 players, that's 5.3 scum. SK accounts for extra, distribution is nearly certainly 18:4(+1):1

Scum so far flipped:

RB, Godfather,

DAY

Role Cop, Mason-Destroying Traitor (nullifies much value of masonry)

Town flipped so far

Investigative: 5
Protective: 2
Killing: 1
VT: 2

Thoughts:

SO FAR WE HAVE TWO FLIPPED VTS

With 18 town, likelyhood is even in a heavy power game, you have 5-6 VT or VT equivalents. That means it's far less likely that any claimed VT is scum.

Two of our power roles are confirmed.

Zel1nk's claim is weird as hell. First, JoAT is every lazy scum's goto claim. Doesn't counterclaim anyone, doesn't do anything to balance, just neutral PR claim.

But what a set of abilities and uses:

1) Claimed Doctor: CJ - this means that CJ, who nearly certainly took a kill to recruit, was recruited despite that kill being unable to resolve. Dunno how mods handle this, but this is automatically a tad odd.

2) Claimed RB: Kast - An odd choice, to be sure, since Kast's ability was confirmable if confirmed town received it.

3) Claimed Watcher: Tajo - say what? Tajo?


Okay, so Play>Role, right?

So, reading ace in ISO.

The whole voting for the better wagon thing is really stupid, but null on this. I don't see it as any more likely to come from ace-scum than ace-town. It's just... plain stupid. Lots of fluff and repitition in his posts. He uses a lot of words and ends up saying not much of value. null leaning scum on him

Reading Amrun in ISO,

Most of her early posts are fluff, lots of discussion about the 'cult' mention, nothing in the way of content. The first half of her ISO, she tunnels Nocmen while saying she thinks Stevie is town. I don't see scum going out of the way to defend their scum buddy like this - if stevie is scum, Amrun is probably town (or at least not scum with him). On the flip side, if stevie is town, the circumstances around Amrun's read (timing and justification) make me think she's probably scum. The second half of her ISO is her tunneling lobster. Wait, no, just as I say that, she goes back to nocmen again. Oh, no, back to lobster again. Having a bit of trouble deciding who she wants to lynch. eh, I have conflicting feelings about Amrun based on the stevie thing. Not something I want to deal with D1.

I'm finding Kast only mildly suspicious after reading through his ISO. A lot of his thought processes I can follow, but there are some that just don't make any sense to me. I want proper explanations for his reads and less ambiguity. On a side note, I'm finding it hard to believe that scum would make up a list of reads (ISO#11) that is most neutral or scummy with... one town read... ISO#11 looked like Kast-town genuinely not having any solid reads.

Anyone remember SpyreX D1? His mind was 'intruded'. Arael is the Angel that intruded Asuka's mind (side note: ironic fake-claim). Put two and two together, and it points to Spyrex being day copped D1. Another side note, re:#1166, this means their day cop is dead so not really a problem anymore. The question is, who was daycopped D2 and D3? Kawaii was obviously one of them, but so far no one has mentioned their mind was intruded apart from Spyrex. Although Stevie is claiming he's received 'similar' PMs?

I need to make sense of this. CJ claimed cult recruit who was made bulletproof and given an angel day cop ability by Kast... And now he has a nuke and he's using it on Nocmen? Also, apparently Kast has given

another

daycop ability to Nocmen. I'm not putting any faith into any investigation result he gives, with what happened with the first one. Something is up and it's highly likely both Nocmen and CJ have been recruited by Kast now.

I agree with tajo. CJ is trying to get lynched here. He's protecting someone, and chances are it's Kast. CJ isn't the recruiter, and he doesn't need to die immediately - he's conf-scum, anyway.

VOTE: Kast

THIS IS BAD PEOPLE. THIS IS VERY BAD

Hi.

Read over Antifinity in ISO. #224 (in light of amrun flip), #702, #752 <- all scum posts from D1.

Can I hammer antifinity now or do I have to wait for a fakeclaim?

I'll get around to posting something more substantial than this in the next 24 hours.

NICE COMMENTARY ON ACE.

Vote: ZeL1nK

[GreyICE]

The fact Iruel (the corruptor) flipped when CJ died makes me believe that Nocmen is CONFIRMED TOWN.

I agree with what you say about this, but it makes me a little confused about who Iruel was on D1...I guess it could be that one of the scum has an ability that turns a player INTO Iruel, but it's a bit funky...

Zelink as scum doesn't violate SoD for me at all.

Well Iruel was in the computer systems, so my assumption is that when we 'blew up' the computer system, Iruel died (like they were going to have to with the Magi). It's a little funky, but I think gameplay>flavor, and I just don't see the scumteam having unlimited corruption (or even 2 shot corruption) powers on a group of masons, as 3+2 is horrible for scum and 4+2 is horrible for town and in both cases it's really swingy.

Furthermore, this was the notification:

The game state may have changed, although you are not certain how...

This highly suggests no ongoing corruption.

Kast claimed to bulletproof and grant an investigation powers to scum, so if he was honest, Nocmen is 1-shot BP. If he wasn't (and that would be a hyper-town gambit to pull) scum still has to shoot to find out.

Bunnylover

- Surye had some content, for all that it wasn't in a format I ever find townie (massive wall of pointless recap) and some of it was fucking awful

GreyICE - The claim is null at best, and annoying. It would effectively disable 1-2 roles completely until he is dead. If I was a mod outguesser (only occasionally) I'd say that was nuts. Vote on Kast good at #23, I (obviously) liked it. Speedlynch call ain't bad, I like the style. Same point about Starbuck as amrun. Where I don't like his play is when he becomes "omg, I can read you all"

starting with vollkan.

"FOS scum, vote town, really?", the arrogance is killing me. I don't like the mason joke, I guess we have a different sense of humor. More of the superreads,

STEVIE SCUMCLAIMED!

But no reads. And when called to explain his reads, he COMPLETELY sidesteps the point and yacks on about multiple scum in 147. AWFUL post. And when asked about nocmen, he justifys a strong scum read, that he never really made, unless it's that "error" he mentioned in 102/116. Very weird.

Don't like the (3rd?) explainationless scum call on Amrun.

And he talks about "autopilot"? Oh, what's this?

4th "OBVSCUM" post?! on Malthusis this time?!

Read, scummy as hell.

VOTE: GreyICE

I'd like to see this be the new wagon, I think it's much better than LC. LC's fluff-as-content is annoying, perhaps scummy, but not damning enough for me. But GI's claim is damaging to town, barely provable without his own death, arrogant superreads based on nothing, and everything in my read, this is where my vote is happy.

Obv scum doesn't know about Malthusis, but that's still an awful lot of chainsaws thrown for what were scumbuddies. I always watch people chainsawing me when it turns out I'm right (you don't chainsaw for town) and doing it based on a 'misunderstanding' of my role as a fallback was just lousy.

Oh and in the same post, he managed to ignore Vollkan and Amrun (despite them posting a bit) and waffledon Ace so badly he could single handedly compete with IHOP. Chainsaw to defend them, plus null read on them... Bending over backwards to keep pushing Kast as scum and me as scum while staying neutral... Surye needed to die when Amrun flipped. He's been backburned by Ace needing to die more, but bunnylover replacing in didn't exactly do much favors to the slot. At best, she's disinterested and ignoring the game. At worst...

(yes I've known Tim was town since Amrun died, but I've been leaving that out there for bites)

Iecerint -

Day 1 replace in put 1 scum in town, one scum in neutral/scum, and 1 scum in scum. That's kinda meh, but overall I'm just going to say that this is a play town read for what are bad reasons, and leave it at that. He doesn't feel scum at all.

Rankings after Zel1nk:

1) Bunnylover (would be #1 overall except for setup speculation)
2) Celeboski (I guess)
3) Ghostwriter (setup speculation+general lurky, still don't think so)
4) Iec (I guess... I don't think so)


Awesome shit: Nocmen is 1-shot bulletproof thanks to Kast, Stevie/Tim gets lynched AFTER we get the scum that shoots him if game is still ongoing, so our confirmed town is pretty friggin hard to kill.

[GreyICE]

SWEET!

[GreyICE]

Pom used her PR very well - Vollkan was the towniest of us.

Which was why I targeted him-- I mainly wanted to confirm the town read I had on him, but I figured I might as wall breadcrumb it. And I have to say that I was mildly offended when GI put down my play in #1625, because I think I did pretty well in all.

Meh, sorry, now that I know you used it, it's a lot better.

I wish you'd breadcrumbed the Iec target a bit better, but hey, it all worked out.

[GreyICE]

Uh Kast... I have a VERY big problem with you saying that.

Our first interaction was you asking me if a damn miller claim was serious (no I do them page 1 post 1 for fun) and then calling me an idiot when I didn't find how you went about it at all townie (I didn't - your mindset was entirely that I was town ('is he seriously a miller' rather than 'is he scum?'). You proceeded to call me an idiot, say I was flailing about randomly, and accuse me of not playing to my win condition.

This is how you treated EVERYONE IN THE GAME WHO QUESTIONED YOU.

You were a complete douchebag, and if I treated you poorly, good. I meant to. It's what you have no problem doing to everyone else.

[GreyICE]

@Greyice-
How about you cut the crap and play the game? Flailing around randomly D1 like an idiot is just going to waste time and peg you for a useless VI

@Nocmen-
There's a difference between stating what you think and asking people if it's ok to think what you think. The "town must vote immediately" mindset is ridiculous and needs to be killed. I think I've been spoiled by playing mostly games

with competent playerbases

where this stuff doesn't need to be explained.

@Ace-
If you're going to bother quoting context, you should take the extra time to read the context.

If you believed the statement in bold why did you feel the need to do the italic statement.

I felt the need because people like you (and I suspect Candlejack as well) are going to be dense and fallaciously claim that thinking someone is joking is equivalent to thinking the person is seriously fake claiming.

@Spyrex-
I'd like more posts from you. A bit more sanity in this game would be great. If you're sane town, that would be even better.

@Zeln1k-
Stevie is playing like a n00b/weak player. He's unfamiliar with basic mafia theory and standard terminology. His analysis and logic are very poor, but nothing in it points scum; rather there's a lot of new/bad player tells.

@Spyrex-
I'd guess scum exist within the bloc in the same ratio that they exist in any randomly selected sample of players. I don't have any particular scum reads on individual members of your/LLD's proclaimed town bloc; most of you have been playing in a pretty neutral/null range.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

Does that mean she is scum? Not necessarily. She certainly hasn't been as scummy as ace, LC, Noc, or Malthusis. What I've pointed out is more secondary tells; identification of what could potentially be scummy behavior but does not in and of itself indicate that LLD is particularly likely to be scum. I also want to be clear that LLD is NOT the sole participant in such behavior. Part of my focus on LLD is simply a penchant for engaging people who try to engage with BS.

Some wagon analysis-
Lady Lambdadelta- Generally less rational player anyway. She's obviously OMGUSing because I called her out. Doesn't say much about affiliation.
GreyICE- His initial attack on me was due to being a VI and thinking I was fishing without really thinking it through. Since I responded by mentioning a game he was extremely upset and hurt by, he decided to stop playing the game and take out his frustrations pushing after me. It's null.
Antifinity- Potential scum wagon vote. It's been discussed pretty reasonably.
Iecerint- Don't really understand Iec's move. This is one of the key votes.
GhostWriter- This is the second key vote on the wagon. Without Iec and GW, this wasn't moving anywhere.
StevieT92- Opportunistic vote from VI/N00b. Doesn't tell us anything and is consistent with Stevie's play elsewhere.
LobsterCatapult- Opportunistic vote from one of today's lynch candidates. Null.
populartajo- Tajo's been as rabidly tunnelled as GI and also for no apparent reason. It is surprising and uncharacteristic.
ace5993- Returning to his old vote. Doesn't add anything new to his read. His vote being for a lynch rather than for pressure to make me react is a slight change from his previous stance.
SpyreX- Going with the bloc despite your personal beliefs? Exactly the problem with a voting bloc.

@Celebloki-
I don't recall you even being in this game. Iso doesn't show much more than sheeping the leading wagons at the time. More posts of substance would be welcome; particularly thoughts on players with reasons for those thoughts.

I'll keep my 'last words' short.

I've characterized you as an oversensitive douchebag who is happy to dish it out but flips out and cries whenever someone hands him a portion of the same.

You disagree.

The above quotes are left to anyone else to decide if I'm making any sense. You apparently don't want to change.

[GreyICE]

Well played GI. I mean no disrespect, but maaan I wish all the games were this GI.

All in all considering the shenanigans I felt like I was on the right track and watching scum just eat it over and over was awesome. Good game all.

Man I wish that too.

I'm trying