Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[ConSpiracy]

Jeez, you are pushy Darth.
/confirm

[ConSpiracy]

I know I am a SE, but I will help Ghostlin, our IC, some times. It's in my nature.
At first, every one without an avatar, please take one. It helps us connect with you.

Secondly, I'd like to ask some questions.

Anyway guys, let's start of with some RQS:
1) What alignment and role do you prefer, and why?
2) Would you lynch lurkers?
3) When lynching, do you rely on your gut or your analysis?
4) What is your stanch on using meta?

5) What's your timezone?
6) What is your posting style: A few lengthy posts or a lot of small posts?
7) How much do you expect to post in this game?

1) Mafia/Third party. In my last few town games, my scumdar was that off that the games went horribly wrong. I am trying to improve in it and this game will tell how much.
2) No. Pressuring them to talk is a lot better.
3) Both. I prefer analysis, but can't ignore gut.
4) If damning evidence, yes. If very small, no.
5) GMT+1
6) A lot of small posts with here and there a lengthy with cases etc.
7) At least once a day. However, I am not home at the moment, so the first week it may be less.

To answer your questions Ibarra, I have never played Mafia before, so I don't know the answer to any of those. Also your Avatars look pretty similar to me, so if ConSpiracy should have a vote for his Avatar, why shouldn't you have one for yours?

Scared to vote?

Vote: BKWM

[ConSpiracy]

Whats meta...?

Meta means comparing past games of a player with the ongoing game. If the play matches his scum play or his town play, it can help the read on said player. Though, differences are usually small. Other factors affect playing style, as well, such as interest/playerlist/real life.

The entire point of RVS is using your vote to draw out more information. (To see how other people react to it, etc.)

If that's the case, shouldn't it be better to bring someone to L-1, see how they react then move to each other person in order?

Let's find that out.

Vote: Ghostlin

[ConSpiracy]

It is because the IC's are supposed to help the newbies get accustomed to the game. The IC would then start to have a sense of reliability around him, and thus if you attack him, the newbies would turn towards you instead.
I'll keep my vote as it is.

So you are scared of being attacked because you voted for the IC?

Vote: theamatuer

[ConSpiracy]

Placing people at L-1 brings the possibility of a quick hammer and that's something we don't want, because:
1) They may prematurely end the day.
2) They may accidentally lynch a power role.
In summary, it's too risky to place someone at L-1 just to check their reaction.

Disagree. Off course having scum quickhammer means that we loose a townie with a high chance of a second one, but that means that we will lynch scum next day and possibly town at night, leaving town with at worst 4:1, at best 6:1. Coping with 4:1 with knowledge of a scumbuddy and still having the possibility of town PRs existing

with

information of two nights is a lot better than 2:9 with no information yet and only assured PRs.

Obviously it's better to have a quickhammer later in the day than having it at start for information. However it still outweighs not automatically lynching scum. And this is a lesson for every town: Do not quickhammer! If you are voting for somebody always check if he isn't accidentally lynched when voting.

[ConSpiracy]

I'm terribly sorry, but internet suddenly stopped working for à while. Tommorow evening I should Be able to post regularly again.

[ConSpiracy]

Con's eagerness to promote folks to L-1 early seems to be partially dissonant to his 'Don't Quickhammer' stance. (Reasoning: L-1 increases the chance of quickhammering---reason why you avoid it in RVS.)

First:

Call me CS dammit!

I hate the abb Con.
Secondly this is not dissonant. I think L-1s are good to test others, but I wanted to tell town that they should always check if they are hammering or not, just to be sure.

EBWOP: if you didn't notice, I voted for etanga (now Marthas). So no, I'm not that scared. But then again, excluding me, there are 5 newbies, just enough for a lynch. So you can't play too complex either, else the newbies just decide to lynch someone instead of trying to understand.

That is not what I meant. Reading back, I meant this:

So you are scared of being attacked

because

if you voted for the IC?

English is not my first language. I try to keep mistakes at a bare minimum, but it's hard when I'm not very good at English.
Anyways, you were scared as this shows:

It is because the IC's are supposed to help the newbies get accustomed to the game. The IC would then start to have a sense of reliability around him, and thus if you attack him, the newbies would turn towards you instead.

Seems scared to me. And that is a bad reason not to do it. Those five newbies aren't morons to protect their IC for something like this.

EBWOP(again): I just realized that theam was supposed to be me. Well, I am mostly trying to aid others in their attacks for now, since I don't seem to have anyone in mind.
So basically, I'm running a semi-aggressive/helping type of play, and I'll switch to aggresive once I have enough suspicions.

So you are giving yourself a free pass to bandwagon others without reasons?

Why are you trying to deter people from voting you by saying that you will post a lot. I find that suspicious.

Why aren't you replacing your RVS vote with a genuine one? I find THAT suspicious.

Good posting.

Actually, no. Selfvoting cannot help your goal, as you are supposed to play to your win condition.

As Morthas said, selfvoting as scum is sometimes useful. I once made an item about this in a game I IC'ed, let me look it up:

Spoiler: Self-hammering, good or bad

The answer should be simple, it is hardly ever good. Self hammering hinders own faction and mostly results in unbalanced win percentages due to the info town lost or mislynch missed. However, there are a few cases that self-hammering is more useful for the game. (I am talking about now crazy themed or special roled games. Off course there are more exeptions, but these occur most often)

Scum selfhammer

- A scum selfhammer is more often right than a town selfhammer. However, there is just one reason to selfhammer, to hinder town in their information. When should scum selfhammer? If it is already obvious that he will be lynched. Let's say scum A is at L-1 for a long time and sees no chance to evade the lynch. However, town wants to wait with the lynch till replacements caught up, till a quarrel was sorted out etc. The best thing scum A can do is self-hammering, since town will miss the catch-up post, the outcome of the quarrel etc. If player A knows he would be lynched already, there is no reason not to make it a little quicker.

Town selfhammer

- A town self hammer is purely to help the rest of the town and is only right when the game is slowly drifting towards a No Lynch. A No Lynch in newbies and mini normals occasionally helps town into MyLo, which should be followed with a No lynch in most games. I will show it a bit more organized:
newbie nine players
D1 lynch, 8 players
N1 kill, 7 players
D2 lynch, 6 players D2 no lynch, 7 players
N2 kill, 5 players N2 kill, 6 players
D3 lynch (game over if 3 mislynches) D3 no lynch (MyLo) 6 players
N3 kill, 5 players
D4 lynch (game over if 2! mislynches)

Why should town selfhammer? Because a (generally thought suspicious guy) lynch usually gives far more information to the rest of the town than a (generally thought townish guy) night kill. The wagon gives people information to think about.
That's all I can think of right now.

Who do you think is our scum? (Gut feelings are good too, some stances would be great).

Scum: Theam
Neutral/scum: Ibarra

Not enough reads for the others.

And I won't be able to be online tomorrow, my grandpa celebrates his 80th anniversary.

[ConSpiracy]

unvote

vote: theamatuer

<.<>.>
.................................................what?

What is this crap?

A thing to remember, folks is we're on Page 5 of Day 1--Day 2 will not start well with as little information we have. Please, even though it may be tempting to vote BK or TM at this point and lynch, we don't have enough future information for tomorrow and following Days.

This reads as if you know both of them will flip town so town needs more information.

I didn't vote in the beginning because like I said before, I knew that the vote count would go up, and I assumed that it might become a lynch that shouldn't have happened. But I just voted because BKWM has not posted in two days or so after he's gotten his vote counts up and I'm getting impatient ^^.

@Ghostlin: Ghostlin, you're rather confusing me as an experienced player. First, you say we shouldn't vote someone without a good amount of info to avoid an unnecessary lynch, that's why I didn't vote. Then, you point your finger at me for being cautious on my vote and not voting after suspecting BKWM. I don't understand your logic in that.

Still waiting on BKWM as well. WHERE ARE JOO FELLOW NOOB?

You must stop pulling the newb card, it is getting rather scummy.

I find it scummy that she held off until she did. It's like going "I think this person is scum but..." if you've got a scum suspect, you should be voting for them. If you don't, you're either obvactivelurking, about to be replaced, or have no opinion, none of which helps town at all.

This is true.

[ConSpiracy]

And I'll stop voting myself once somebody takes my place thank you

Can anybody tell me what town motive there is to do this?

I have to disagree with you ConSpir, shes not using it as a defense, she merely is just confused, no need to get angry.

I am not angry, I just wanted to point it out as pulling the newb card is a common strategy for scum to survive at least the first day.

[ConSpiracy]

Well, I'd say the question would be if you want me to unvote myself or not. I voted myself just because I am helping everyone getting defenses at this point, and not just bandwagoning/lurking. This seemed to me as the best idea at the time, although looking back, this isn't being very effective to say the least, since I'm not feeling much pressure.

You're kidding right? A vote on yourself doesn't give any pressure as you can remove it yourself any time...

To CS: I ask you what scum purpose there is to that? The goal of scum is to survive lynching, and to be honest, the self vote did nothing but draw attention to myself, which if I were scum, would be the last thing I want. (and to be honest, I had almost no suspicion on me to begin with).

What do you think of not having to do anything? You continue to be anti-town with your vote and instead of starting to act pro-town (pressure someone with your vote for example) and stop with it , you continue with it hiding behind the reason "scum wouldn't do this". Right now you're not doing anything, when town has to lynch scum, not prevent from being lynched. That's the scum incentive. And that's what you are doing right now.

Why two people have voiced their suspicions on you is surprisingly disturbing.

And I am wondering why paradox is still not voting for anyone. I can't recall him doing anything actually. Where has he gone?

[ConSpiracy]

ConSpiracy - Same as Ghostlin - a helpful and analysing poster. I need more information about you. What would you say...

Information. Information Information.
No seriously, I can't just give information on command, what do you want me to give information about?

And your vote is solely because I can be scum decieving everyone? You really need to find better reasons to vote someone.

That. Also, since Soulblade seems to be defending stels, I am feeling a stels-SoulBlade scumteam

Just my experience coming up (inb4 Ghostlin):

At this stage, nobody should worry about finding connections between players. Most of the times they are wrong. Connections are helpful when one of the scum is dead or when it is LyLo to find the scum-team.

And stels worded it correctly. I personally thought your suspicions on SoulBlade were good, but your vote on Stels was just awful.

[ConSpiracy]

I don't like the wagon on Ghostlin.
Hiplop makes some one-liners on him without any backing up. Ghostlin's posts aren't contentless at all.
Morthas seems to be overanalysing everything Ghostlin says and picking on words in sentences.
AeRung sheeped Hiplop.

That is nothing you have there.

You really should step over to the theam wagon. He is far scummier.

[ConSpiracy]

Why not? I do.
Hey, if all i did was look up on the common tells in the wiki, i would be far more times wrong than i already am.

Because the nitpicking works on every one. Every one makes once in a while a word that's wrong if read three times.

I've backed it up pretty well? otherwise i wouldn't have a wagon and everyone thinking hes scum but you...

And way to be hypocritical, you didn't back anything up in this post.

Touché, I didn't do much either. If you show were you backed up yourself in your next post I will show why Ghostlin's posts aren't contentless.

@CS: You are slowly becoming scummier with every post.

Why are you saying this only to me and not to every one else? Are you trying to scare me off and stop me from going on on your nitpicking, which is quite scummy as I said above?

What's the connection between me and SoulBlade? Because frankly, if I was scum, and you can take this one to the bank, if there was any chance that diverting to my partner would assure my success, I'd be doing it hardcore. Scum!Ghostlin isn't afraid of doing that for easy towncred.

Lol WIFOM. You should know better.

Paradox: Seriously, dude. Who do you think is scum?

He hasn't been posting in the thread for 4 days and 19 hours...

@ConSpiracy and Ghostlin: What are your goals to achieve in this game as the most experienced players? Also, approximately how many games have you guys played so far?

Well, I don't have a goal as I am not the IC. However, it's in my nature to help other people and that's why I like to help once in a while. I have played around 12/15 games.

At last, I like Stels's last post.

And theam, I don't know what you are doing, but responding to content from other players is smart as well. Right now I can only find your stance on SoulBlade.

@mod

, please replace paradox. He doesn't do anything and hasn't posted for 4 days and 19 hours right now.

[ConSpiracy]

Can you post where they are not content less first? It'd be easier for me to explain it after I see what you're thinking.

I call lines as this doing something. I question players sometime if I think there are scummy motivations behind it, but not sure about that.

Spoiler: Ghostlin content

Why would you be lynched Day 1?

Con's eagerness to promote folks to L-1 early seems to be partially dissonant to his 'Don't Quickhammer' stance. (Reasoning: L-1 increases the chance of quickhammering---reason why you avoid it in RVS.)

TM: Do you see anything scummy at all about any of the discussions in the game? What do you find scummy about BK?

AeR: Why haven't you upgraded your FoS on BK to a full vote yet.

Soulblade: Who do you think is scum

In order my scum/town continnum looks like this:
TM--BKWM--AeR (The not voting sounds really non commital, frankly)---REST OF TOWN

Congrats on your scum claim. Let me know how that works out for you.

And content comes enough at post #15

Though reading him makes me understand why you are saying he is contentless.
Another thing I found curious.

Ghostlin

, why did you ask all those questions but didn't do anything with them?

Conspiracy, please explain ANY town motivation towards anything ghostlins done. Except for the theoretical IC talk, i mean THIS game. Hes even WIFOMing it up to protect his ass

His suspicions on theam are good. The rest is more or less null.

To aeryung: two games in total
first game: got subbed in at page 37, game ended at page 39.
second game: got lynched on day 1 at page 9 while I was asleep.
BTW: I self-voted since I promised I would if it came to an L-2 here. and I don't like breaking promises. However, self-hammering is a different story

Okay, and you self-voted even after you've played two games...
He should know why it is wrong doing it as town and still did it. Please lynch him now.

[ConSpiracy]

All right, I know I am only showing suspicions on theam at the moment (a.k. you call tunneling), but really, read his posts.

OK, analysis time:
Character Analysis (Scummy level from 1-10. 1 least 10 most)
Aeryung:pulls the noob card out, both directly and indirectly. Usually after being attacked. Possible mistake. 4
ConSpiracy:Tunneller of thematuer. 7
Ghostlin:2nd ta tunneller. posts little content in general for an IC. 8
hiplop:Apparently helpful. Mostly attacks Ghostlin and ConSpiracy. possible scumpartener with ta. 3
Johog: To early to be sure. 5 for Null
Morthas: can't tell. More suspicious than not though. 6
Soulblade: Didn't post since mistake. Very possible scum. 9
stels: Mostly counterarguments against ta. null. 5
thamatuer: Self-voting. Very Defensive in the beginning. jumps on bandwagon's in the middle. Self-vote. Becomes offensive towards SB. Probable scum. 7
This is being as objective as possible.

Is making an objective view? What could we do with that? What other reasons than extremely WIFOM is there to give himself a 7 for scum and even worse, giving himself a connection with hiplop?

theamatuer-hiplop.
ta-morthas

What use is this?

At first I didn't want to believe it because he was backing ghostlin up so much, but I think he was only blinded and is now starting to see why you've been questioning him all this time.

It's like you just copied hiplop in this.

Why does his opinion even matter? Considering he's only posted like once every 2-3 days. And the last, like CS said, hasnt signed on in 4 days 19 hours.

And here you are trying to come up with something new to incriminate Ghostlin. But this whole point is bad. His opinion

does

matter, because we wanted to know his stance in convo's and find out if he is scum or not. That's not going to happen if he doesn't post.

Me and CS can take care of you guys anyway; do not need a scum IC telling you what to do!!! I don't have much else to say, so im jokingly putting my point across

You know that ICs, wether their aligment is scum or town, should guide the town in the right direction, right?

Anyways, I need to back off a bit from theam. Because of his scummy posts (and the failure of him being wagoned) I am constantly drawn back to him and am indeed tunneling a bit. I am going to find out if there are some other players that are scummy. I think I will start with AeRyung. His last post seemed far too much like scum trying to blend in.

[ConSpiracy]

Thank you for not tunneling me anymore.
Also, why does it seem that when a person seems to get actually scummy, they stop posting altogether?
(talking bout soulblade and possibly BWKM)

It's a valid and very annoying strategy for scum to stay away from the radar.

Yeah, I'll call her as VT.

What did you mean with this?

You know that ICs, wether their aligment is scum or town, should guide the town in the right direction, right?

Yes. Currently the IC in 2 games

Oh, I wouldn't have thought that with your join date. You had experience before mafiascum? Or you are also playing on another site?

But for a scum, a lurker can be used as a decoy. A lurker can very much be accused of being scummy, therefore, either they'd get lynched by town and if not, the scums would not have to waste a kill on night 1(considering lurkers are not scum themselves) and rather use their kill on a life threatening townie. Which is why I feel that Ghostlin was trying to get an answer out of paradox before he could possibly get replaced(though eventually, it did happen).

That makes somewhat sense. However, there is town motivation as well, have you thought about not letting Paradox cruising through the game? Null at best and the reason for that is either forced (scum) or tunneling

Ehm... I am stating what I have understood from the situation. It is true...*looks around* isn't it??

Yeah, you may be lucky you are a newbie and signed up for a newbie game first. I think in any other game you would have been lynched already. You are trying to recieve approval from other players. That's called buddying up with them, it's a another scum-strategy that helps giving the buddied players a town read on the buddyer. It's scummy.

You would obviously see it that way because you still believe Ghostlin is innocent(or are you defending your partner?). I see things in another perspective because I think he one out of the two scums.

Yeah read above. This still reads very forced as it is null at best.

So, an IC's duty is to guide the town in the right direction(to him) even if he is scum? That seems rather hard. I am still waiting on Ghostlin's response to my question what he wants to achieve as an IC in this current game.

Yes. With guiding in the right direction I mean guiding the game how it should be. Not guiding the players to the right lynch. Let's say, if every body wants to quicklynch on the first page, the IC should say that is not a smart thing to do. He has to say that regardless of his alignment, for example when he's scum and the one to be quicklynched would be town. (And he didn't play a part in it)

I will read through Johog's walls later, I skimmed them all quickly because it is so much...

[ConSpiracy]

I´m not ready to hammer him.
Will adress the other posts monday.
Sorry for the sudden announcement, but I forgot to do it earlier.

@mod, I am V/La this weekend. I should be posting regularly monday again.

[ConSpiracy]

Yeah I am back. Due to family arrangements a day later than I should be back.

@CS: #239, 2nd quote... Think he was referring to AeRyung as VI instead of VT. Which is kind of mean...
Or if he wasn't, that was sort of random, just like his entire character thus far.

Agreed.

So was Ghostlin trying to buddy up here?

Nope. Saying that you won't vote for somebody because you don't think he's scum is not buddying up. Otherwise every one is buddying up with his town reads.
---
I like

Johhog

's anti-claim policy as it is exactly the way people should handle the claims.
---

If anyone wants, I can unvote to have someone fill my place, then I'll hammer him myself.

I really have to suppress myself not going to comment on this...

I am ready to hammer Ghostlin. Hence my impatience with prodding him. He is my 2nd suspect after theamatuer.

Show me please where you said first that you thought Ghostlin scummy. I don't recall you saying that.
---

Ghostlin

's claim seems honest to me. His play matches a PR (more of a cop, though) His reasons for calling Hiplop scum are bad. And so is his connection spotting of hiplop and theam. I really doubt theam-hiplop will be a scum-team. I still call Ghost town.

Johhog

I am very interested in tomorrow. His play today was null and especially his posts about reads for tomorrow make me interested how he will play tomorrow.

Ghostlin

's post about sync-hiplop/theam is again wrong. I read it as theam buddying up to hiplop.

DH-star

's catch-up posts was lacking solid scum reads and a vote.
---

2) No, but ConSpiracy and I

(I think conspiracy at least)

will be fine in teaching you, I'm a qualified IC and all that jibber jabber

This feels odd, what do you mean with the bolded?

Conspiracy, no matter how much of an asshole you are i do miss having some cs company.

Lawl. Thanks, I guess.

Ever thought of the possibility that I'm just wrong? WIFOM aside, but do you really think I'd be so gutsy in my play?

This is very bad... This is the perfect line for scum to try to get away with a

"Oops, apparently I was wrong yesterday"

.
---

AeYrung

's first hiplop/CS buddy posts needs enters. (Seriously, use paragraphs next time. It is painful to read) It's a very town post though.

@AeRyung

: Why is this the first time you post in this style?

New

DH-star

's posts again lack firm reads. His wanted vote for Ghostlin is ungrounded (didn't mention Ghostlin's aligment at all AFAIK)
---

To answer your questions, for the timezone, if it's a friendly question, "where is everyone from?" would be the normal question instead of asking for the timezone. It really isnt logical to ask someone their timezone, unless you're trying to calculate the time differences.

I haven't used the question, yet. I took these questions from another player, because I like them. The question can be used if the situation is stressful, such as a LyLo or a near-deadline.
---

Theam

's I am scum post is a scum tell. Scum like to claim scum. Town doesn't care about it.
---

AeRyung's long case

Bolded below. ConSpiracy himself has told me that this kind of action is.. buddying, i think? He said that I was trying to get approval from others that I am town, so what does this indicate?

Not buddying, read above.

Another note by Ibarra to make sure if he doesn't post, to replace him than to lynch him.

This is forced. Ibarra was a SE, so he had experience. He knew he wouldn't be lynched if inactive, but replaced instead.

A random vote just to see what happens because a newbie made an interesting point? It seems out of the CS character thus far.

Reaction testing.

This is a little conversation between Ibarra and CS. It was a disagreement, but it was pretty friendly. ConSpiracy and friendly does not go in the same sentence, I say!!!!

Lawl, it was game speculation and had hardly anything to do with the game itself.

Yes, good posting. But what of it? For someone who is so opinionated, this is very quiet.

What Morthas did? His question was good.

I find this weird because when CS usually finds a suspect, he questions, says his suspicions, whatever that seems wrong; he will let you know. Like so,

It was because of the above question from Morthas on Ibarra.

but Ibarra didn't get pressured at all when he was here. Nor did hiplop when arrived, not even once after all the suspicions against Ghostlin. Starting from page 6, hiplop starts to accuse Ghostlin. ConSpiracy disagrees, siding with Ghostlin. At this point there's an amatuer wagon: Ghostlin, Conspiracy, and Stels. On Ghostlin's wagon: hiplop, theam, aer. Then I remembered, scums don't necessarily have to be on the same wagon. They can be on different wagons and plot as they go. And knowing that hiplop and conspiracy has a good amount of experience, this is very doable.

I do not question someone if he hasn't posted anything scummy. And the further text is moot and tunneling, because basicly every thing you were saying was "Scum may or may not be on the same wagon" and used that as a reason for us two scum.

Bam, Hiplop's ticket to come in and take out Ghostlin. Basically, the start of my analysis started from the end of the thread, not from the beginning. Thinking about the possible partners, and saw how two people played with eachother, by switching off the partners for my analysis, hiplop-Conspiracy was what I got that was out of the ordinary suspicious. I suppose I did a bit much for a possibility but I thought I should say something about how I felt.

This is the first thing that makes sense to me. There is just one thing I want you to ask, do you really thing we schemed this all without talking to each other out of the game? It is really far fetched.

ConSpiracy, just waiting on your thoughts regarding what has happened so far. Case with ghostlin, case with hiplop that ghostlin has been trying to build, and also my case with you and hiplop.

Yeah, Yeah... I don't have infinite time you know. And there was a lot to comment on.

Edit: What?! People think that is a scummy post?! Wow. No.

Point out who thought that. Strawman.

Anyways, Morthas flows under the radar with minimum activity. That's bad.

Scum: theam
Null/Leaning scum: DH-Star, Morthas

[ConSpiracy]

Sure thing Mr.I-Pay-Minimal-Attention-When-I-Read.

Touché, must have read over both of them.

Looks very like ''I don't like AeR's post'' kind of posts to me.
What is a Strawman? Wiki says one thing but i don't think my behavior is similar to such.

Strawmanning is a discussion technique. It is attacking something/one that doesn't exist to earn the trust of others. Anyway, it didn't apply here.

You tell me, I'm starting to complain about it. My minimum activity is only associated with my social life and nothinghavetosayness. I ask my questions that further my reads, and I research suspects before placing my vote on them, I don't see what's wrong with my play. If you do, I'm willing to listen.

You post less than others and your reads aren't as obvious as others. On top of that you aren't mentioned much like other people, which at first wasn't a big deal, but in my reread I noticed it more and more. Usually town either posts much or clearly states his reads or both. I can't really say both of them about you.
And nothinghavetosayness? There are hardly any circumstances there is nothing to say for town.

Also: I might have missed this but how is Ghostlin's play in any way an indicator about the validity of his claim. I don't see why should a power role play in a certain way.

Not taking firm stances (the only firm stance he had was on theam and didn't come very strong to me) and fluffing more than usual. Sure both of them are scum tells. Cops usually play this way, though, and I haven't had enough experience with JKs to know if they usually do that. I see a JK as a modified cop and seeing Ghostlin's experience, I bet he does that, as well. It's not strong, but it fits his play.

[ConSpiracy]

Strawmanning is a discussion technique. It is attacking something/one that doesn't exist to earn the trust of others. Anyway, it didn't apply here.

No, Strawmanning is like discrediting a case. Like making it seem like a smaller deal than it actually is. Ie someone posts a HUGE wall with a bunch of valid points and you just say like "nah you're crazy" (obviously not the best example but I can't think of one atm)

Were did you get that from? I learned two years ago at school that strawmanning is a discussion technique that if used and unnoticed helps a lot, but if noticed breaks the entire discussion.
Where you are talking about is ad hom(inem). It's another technique that is discrediting a player instead of discrediting the things he said.

Also: why would scum claim scum if townies never do it? if scum claim scum, only scum claim scum, so if you claim scum, you're scum. What you're saying is that scumclaiming is basically a death wish. Scum's goal is to survive, and if they scumclaim, since it is a deathwish, it plays against their goal.

Just for fun/sarcasm/WIFOMish reasons. I don't know, but scum does it a lot more. I am 99% sure that if a research will be done about claiming scum as a joke, scum did it far more than town.

ConSpiracy

He is calm, logical and has well reasoned posts. In this game I can't see any obvtown, but ConSpiracy is the nearest thing we'll come to that.

Wait a minute, didn't you say you agreed with AeRyung a few pages ago?

[ConSpiracy]

AeRyung calls me scum...

[ConSpiracy]

No, she called you scumpartner to Hiplop. IE, youre scum if and only if hiplop is

AeRyung calls me scum...

Oh, nah, I didn't agree with that part, only with the "possible buddying with hiplop" part. As I said we don't have any real obvtown, and that's tbh the only thing I can find against you, so you're still most town here.

That is still contradicting each other. If Ghost is town, hiplop is most likely scum and I am most likely town. There would be at least some mention of it if he agreed on it.

[ConSpiracy]

But I never said I thought you were scum with hiplop.

Okay, I thought you were agreeing with AeRyung's case on me and hiplop being scumbuddies.
Anyways, it's scummy that you think I am town although you think I am buddying up to hiplop.
Let's have a better look on you tomorrow.

And I am going to steal Ghostlin's status for an explanation of buddying. It still isn't perfectly understood what it is.
This is what I said in my IC game about buddying:

Spoiler: Buddying

Buddying is when one player agrees/asks for approval/helps another player to get into favour of that particular player. With getting into favour I mean not being suspected because they generally think the same to avoid getting suspicion of that player. Usually mafia does this, to avoid being suspected by the same player they buddied with. For example:
1) Player A says Player C and D are scummy, but E and F are town.
2) Player B says C and D are scummy and E and F are town.
3) Player A thinks B is town because he thinks the same as him.
4) Player B has succesfully buddied with player A.
This is just a random example. Every play that player B tries to get into favour with player A because of sync reads/no scumtarget, etc. Is buddying.

[ConSpiracy]

Actually, it is logical if you consider it like this:
Ghostlin is townie, so logical scum would be either Hiplop or TM. Since Hiplop is proven townie, so TM must be scum.
Obviously they want me to get lynched day 2.
From this, we can guess that scum is (from order of most likelyness):
1.Wanted to get TM lynched.
2. completely unlrelated to Hiplop.
3. attacked by hiplop.
If anyone passes off this post with a single WIFOM, I'm going to rage on them

I love this post. So scum tries to lynch you as much as possible. However, scum wants to win, so they do not care about lynching you, but lynching anybody. Why would they kill hiplop when he was likely to recieve just as much suspicion as you so they secure your lynch? They could have split lynch choices...

That... was unexpected...
The reasons Hiplop might have been chosen:
1. Kill off an IC qualified person
2. Make a kill that has 100% of being sucessful
3. Make TM's lynch harder to avoid but that's WIFOM territory.
4. Create confusion among town.
5. Scum was PR fishing.
I'm going to look up people's interactions with Ghostlyn + Hiplop a bit later.

As this post shows, night kill analysis is very dangerous. Even the most logical reasons to kill someone may be wrong because they had a PR-tell on him or killed just for ICness.
It may be used for evidence, but try to evade basing a case on it.

18 is Swedish legal drinking age?

In The Netherlands 16 is the legal age to drink beer/wine/rose/soft-alcoholic drinks

@CS: I expect great things from you when you come back.

If you do the same. Your day 1 coasts wasn't unnoticed and activity suddenly picked up after that.

Anyways, my real life is very busy, so I might be dissapearing for a short period once in a while. I will be as active as possible, though, and nowhere near prodding range.

[ConSpiracy]

@CS: I expect great things from you when you come back.

If you do the same. Your day 1 coasts wasn't unnoticed and activity suddenly picked up after that.

Wut?

What I am trying to say is:
I don't remember coasting.

Replace coasting with lurking. Wrong term, my bad.

@ConSpiracy Kudos to you and your busy life. It's admirable. Anyway, Ghostlin and hiplop are no longer with us so you are next in line to give us some insight on this matter. Instead of suggestions and mechanics of gameplay, I would like to hear your perception on who you believe to be scum and a thorough reason why. Will you lead town in the right direction?

Why do you think that only the most experienced people can lead town in the right direction? This is a good post for scum-newbs trying to hide behind experienced players.
And I still lack an answer on my response to your case. Too bad hiplop already died, but pretend him to be still alive, your case had holes.

I think I said so before. Hiplop is IC eligible. He probably could get a good defense and manage to pry off suspicion and find who is the real scum as well.
I however, do not have such confidence

That's not what you said, you said this:

Ghostlin is townie, so logical scum would be either Hiplop or TM. Since Hiplop is proven townie, so TM must be scum.

So Hiplop, someone who was likely to get suspicions today, would be killed just to have you lynched.

Mm, I'm starting to develop a gut feeling that would indicate that you're scum too, but tbh it's

A) Not so strong. BKWM's play was incredibly town and you're still - well, null-town or something if I should try to think logically.
B) Subconsciously OMGUS I guess. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to avoid OMGUS and that is influencing my gut.

I'm not quite sure why I'm posting this really, but I can take this opportunity to share my updated reads:

You are whining a bit too much. And your day 2 play hasn't been what I hoped for.

Vote: theamatuer

Morthas and Johhog follow in suspicions.

[ConSpiracy]

Mm, I'm starting to develop a gut feeling that would indicate that you're scum too, but tbh it's

A) Not so strong. BKWM's play was incredibly town and you're still - well, null-town or something if I should try to think logically.
B) Subconsciously OMGUS I guess. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to avoid OMGUS and that is influencing my gut.

I'm not quite sure why I'm posting this really, but I can take this opportunity to share my updated reads:

You are whining a bit too much. And your day 2 play hasn't been what I hoped for.

Whining? EXPLANATION... NOW...

You are trying to validify your actions too much with irrelevant comments.
"I think he is scum, but I find it hard to avoid OMGUS"
"I'm not quite sure why I'm posting this really"

[ConSpiracy]

No, those two points might look different, but in reality are the same thing.
First, Ghostlin is suretown now due to lynch, so the main suspects as said by so many people are one of me or Hiplop. Since the NK showed Hiplop as town, you thought of the NK as "illogical" and decided to ignore it, and decided to go lynch me instead. I say that scum's goal was to get one of Hiplop or me lynched by lynching the other. Since you see that one is town, you think the other must be scum. Comparatively between HIplop and I, Hiplop is an IC-eligible as he so said to everyone, and therefore it would be easier to get me lynched than him.

Again. That makes no sense.
Both you and hiplop were the ones that were most likely to get the most suspicions on you, regardless the (lack of) night kill. Why would scum take out one of them to have a higher possibility of lynching the other one, when the odds were at least as high, if not higher, that at least one of them would be lynched? And if then one of you two would be lynched, there is another player that has high possibilities of being lynched a following day.
So, you point is moot.
And if you still think you say something that is noteworthy, ask every one else about it. I am 99% sure they will say the same.

Why do you think that only the most experienced people can lead town in the right direction? This is a good post for scum-newbs trying to hide behind experienced players.
And I still lack an answer on my response to your case. Too bad hiplop already died, but pretend him to be still alive, your case had holes.

You don't answer the questions I ask which requires thorough writing. When you post, you post in 1-2 sentences most of the time consisting of nothing very helpful other than game mechanics. You make comments and ask questions and when those questions are answered, you don't do much with that information, nor do you try to build a strong case for everyone else to see to convince that person is scum. If you are, then share it. For someone who seems aggressive in his writing, your actions are very, very mild. You're scared to do something out of the ordinary, you seem held back. These people think you're null-town because you do just enough to keep suspicion off of you. Interrogate just enough, post just enough, you mostly critique people on how they play and how they are very scum like and what not but really, that's just about the majority of your posts. You evade simple questions and turn it around on the other player without answering the question requested. You question a lot, yet answer little.

VOTE: ConSpiracy

- That is no response. Way to avoid a big post you should respond to.
- Which answers should I write more about? I'd rather show what my opinion is rather than talking around it with unneeded fluff.
- I fully disagree that my posts contain nothing helpful. My opinion is largely showed and game mechanics are only told when it is needed, which doesn't take much space in my posts at all.
- If an answer pleases me, there is no need to go on with it. Or do you want me to clog up the thread with unnecessary comments?
- Every one knows my suspicions, so I don't think my actions are mild at all.
- Just saying I am scared to do something out of the ordinary isn't enough. You can't know that. And if you think I am, show me.
- So? I try to find scum.
- I haven't evaded questions. Come with proof.

In that case, let me ask you one thing.

Between me and Hiplop, who would be easier to get a lynch with?

What's is your motive to ask this question?

Just as he is doing all the time. He is trying to make his lynch less likely to happen with non-existant reasons and WIFOM.

Every body should read or at least skim his ISO. At least half of the stuff he posts is blatantly saying things that do not make sense. It's becoming a pattern.

[ConSpiracy]

OK then, I am completely useless in this game.
I'll just point out that I am innocent, DH-star is most likely useless, and lurk the rest of the game out.

Explain more in detail why DH-star is scum rather than just saying it.

Will you lead town in the right direction?

Why do you think that only the most experienced people can lead town in the right direction? This is a good post for scum-newbs trying to hide behind experienced players.
And I still lack an answer on my response to your case. Too bad hiplop already died, but pretend him to be still alive, your case had holes.

It was a very simple question asked but instead you turned around asking me a question. All you need to do is answer, THEN ask if need be. And what was your question? Must have missed it.

Well, I didn't answer it properly, because there is no good use of this question. Firstly, scum and town would both answer that they would guide town in the right direction. Secondly, there isn't really something like guiding in mini games. Every body has enough room to push their own suspicions through without hindering the game too much.
Anyways, I will guide the town in the right direction. If every body would follow my guidance theam will be lynched and the scum-team will most likely lose a member.

The questions you didn't answer are my responses on your cases. At first you said, that hiplop and I were scum because of A,B,C. I said why A,B,C were wrong and you left it alone.
Today, you said why I am scum because of D,E,F. I said again why that's not true and you left it alone again. It is as if you do not believe your own reasons and just fake them and leave them alone.

[ConSpiracy]

The questions you didn't answer are my responses on your cases. At first you said, that hiplop and I were scum because of A,B,C. I said why A,B,C were wrong and you left it alone.
Today, you said why I am scum because of D,E,F. I said again why that's not true and you left it alone again. It is as if you do not believe your own reasons and just fake them and leave them alone.

Just like you said here

If an answer pleases me, there is no need to go on with it. Or do you want me to clog up the thread with unnecessary comments?

I feel same, except half of my reasons are out of laziness.

Okay, laziness is not a satisfactory answer. I know it sometimes comes up, but it means that you do not really like your case. You do not have the time to elaborate it further.
As far as my answers please you, it is just odd that my response on your entire case pleases you and you still think I am scum.

You and Ghostlin both have accused me because of my "obvious" scum tells so much that I was against using the same tactic on others because you're wrong about me and if I follow those footsteps, I may be wrong about others just like you are of me. This is a big part of the reason why I'm currently ignoring theam's weirdness at the moment. But then again, I was wrong in being on the Ghostlin wagon, and you were right for his read. That encourages me to listen to what you have to say but I'm going to give it some time because theam is actually really easy prey, a little too easy for my taste. That thought bugs me, and I can't ignore it. Though I am certainly, interested in your style of play. You're either a really good town, or a really good scum. I enjoy thinking of both possibilities;but it's fascinating to think if you are scum, how clevar you are in executing these plays. I will end up having to choose between the two someday but the shades of grey have not yet been colored in my story. Sorry but, you're gonna be the villain until I change my mind or IF I change my mind, yadig.

There's a difference between making obvious scum tells once in a while and making them every single time. There's a difference if you post town (like your first case on me and hiplop as buddies was) and not one at all.
If you are saying that theam is a really easy prey, that's really bad. I had once a game I played in and there was one player that every body thought of was a VI. However, he first got some suspicions on him because of scummy behaviour until he kept on showing that behaviour. He was scum.

@theam - theam, you sometimes make me wanna put you in a blanket and rock you back and forth. Do you care if you get lynched at this point? You are probably going to get lynched next so give us as much information as you can before you go. Your reads on people and why you believe they are scum with sufficient amount of reasoning.

Not needed, early day obvious lynch targets aren't automaticly the players that are lynched.

[ConSpiracy]

Oh, and I forgot.

@mod, I have introduction week next week (till saturday), and I probably am not able to be online even once.

[ConSpiracy]

P-Edit: @CS: AGAIN?! Talk about lurking.

Oh the irony. It isn't as if I am not vocal about things.
And nice answer on Stels's case.[/sarcasm]

[ConSpiracy]

Well... IDK what to say...

Was this for the game or for the post above?

Here is my initial read on D1:

It makes sense that hiplop was killed cause the only person he was attacking got lynched. Hiplop wasn't really tied with anyone else so the town doesnt get info from the NK.

Theam gives off the most scum vibes, constantly switches his attitude toward players and seems to be trying to distract the town. Even if he is newbtown his rage votes could be easily manipulated by scum. A theam flip will give us the most info at this point.

fos CS and Stels

for distancing.

If theam is scum one interesting event was the D1 bandwagon on him. Only three people decided to leave their votes...... CS, Stels, and ghostlin

VOTE: THEAM

RAWR

Town post.
Though I still am curious as to why he thinks I am distancing from theam.
Stels makes a lot more sense as he suddenly stopped with his suspicions today on Theam.
There is more than just leaving votes on him to find distancing.

@theam, why do you feel CS is scum? You need to be more elaborate on your thoughts because most of the time you write your suspicions, you dont give enough evidence nor is it even convincing enough for other people to agree with what you have to say. If you are town, give your fellow town members something they can really follow up on instead of a dead end. I get a weird vibe from you because you don't give enough information. You seem to be doing the most work out of all of us by number of posts but a lot of them are just not useful at all. You have to keep in mind that everyone is wary of eachother and just because someone states that they are town like you and me in the beginning, it's not very convincing if your actions and words don't make up for it. I figured this out once I put myself in other people's shoes. You say that 4xi3ty's slot is suspicious because people have ditched that position? What are the chances that all 3 people left because they didn't want to take responsibility of being scum? I can understand one out of three doing that, maybe 2, but the possibility of a third is really pushing chances.

True.

Can I get an ISO of my posts when ur done with ConSpiracy's ?

Why do you want that?

Apart from that, the ISO's are a pile of crap, cuz it is IioA.
Johhog´s posts seem contentless to me (apart from the theam vote).

@mod:

And I am terribly sorry, but I will not be able to come online on next monday till wednesday. However, it will be the last V/La in a long while and I will be able to come online every day on further days.

[ConSpiracy]

If theam is scum one interesting event was the D1 bandwagon on him. Only three people decided to leave their votes...... CS, Stels, and ghostlin

VOTE: THEAM

RAWR

Town post.

yes, for all posts that participate in my death are town.

Johhog´s posts seem contentless to me (apart from the theam vote).

For all posts that do not help my death are contentless.

I think I figured out what's wrong here. He pops up, says to lynch me, does some other stuff that still routes back to me, and goes back to V/LA.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
I'm still thinking 4nxi3ty's going first.

I am too lazy to multiquote it, so I do it this way.
No, sometimes people make posts that are very townish. Compare it to AeRyungs first post on why hiplop and I could be scumbuddies on day 1.
If that's true, I wouldn't have said that. Johhog posted very much only towards you in the last few pages I caught up. Most of his posts towards you seem forced (contentless wasn't really what I meant). I usually am not doing any buddy speculation without having a scumflip first, but if (or better when) you will flip scum, I would go for Johhog as scum. His actions reek like bussing (a lot more than Stels's actions btw, I looked it up and he made the theam wagon the biggest wagon at that moment)

But yeah, CS says all that lynch me are suretown, so all you scum better hurryup if you want an easy victory.

Lawl, you know my suspicions. You know that's not true.

[ConSpiracy]

Compare it to AeRyungs first post on why hiplop and I could be scumbuddies on day 1.
If that's true, I wouldn't have said that.

.........what?
so you're saying AeRyungs post is town since it is wrong and you're town?
If not, then we could consider it as another NK reason, assuming CS is scum.
Johhog's case is probably right though.
4nxi3ty's posts are all about me. Not that I'm nothing to consider about, but I really wish he'd bus someone else.
And to be honest, I don't think I can hold off 3 SE's accusations very well. I doubt I'd survive, but I'll try posting as much info as possible.

My ISO's probably won't be able to be finished as well. My life is getting annoying and I'm only 11 posts done with Aeryungs.

No it was a town post. Just like that post was a town post. Once in a while people make posts that are incredibly townish.
That's not true. If I was scum hiplop would be left alive, because if I am lynched hiplop would become a likely mis-lynch.
If hiplop was killed/lynched, I would not get more attention as the connection broke. Maybe I would have gotten a bit more attention with an alive hiplop (as connection), but that would be minimal.
What do you mean, his case is probably right?
Well, you are right. He could be saying a bit more about others.

@4nx

: Who are your other scumsuspects?
And deadline is still quite a bit days away. So you don't have to be worried about deadlines.

Also, every body. Read this:

4nxi3ty's posts are all about me. Not that I'm nothing to consider about, but I really wish he'd

bus

someone else.

Scum-slip detected!
I am not quite sure about it being an intentional scum-slip or not, but nevertheless he should be lynched.

[ConSpiracy]

what does bus mean anyways and why is that a scumslip? I assumed it was similar to wagoning.
Also, why do you post whenever I'm not around? It's as if you ask questions and you do not want me to answer them

What do you mean with this? I post whenever I am able to.

Guys, I had a crazy thought, but maybe it's not worth it, IDK. CS looked a lot like Theam's scumbuddy now, recently, so if we're sure that Theam is scum we can hammer him while CS is on V/LA. This will either force scum to no kill, kill CS (which is to almost everyone, while I'm not personally convinced, a scumread) and rid us off a scummy player or no kill. Bit risky though, and I don't know if it's worth it, but I just thought I should put it out there.

You could try that. I won't be online next monday till wednesday which is precisely enough for me not doing the kill (I have absolutely no possibility to be online during these days).
This only works if I am scum and scum with theam though.
I only do not get why scum would kill me. As far as I know, I have two votes on me and would be a likely mislynch tomorrow. (maybe even today)

I expect the possibility of faking V/LA.
WE need a test.



CONSPIRACY IS ROLECOP IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!>!!HPOGHIOGEYGEWOGFEWOEWFGOWEFYGOEYFGWEIYFGO
VOTE: ConSpiracy
we make him to L-1, see if he's there, and if he isn't, quickchange to me and lynch.
...actually, he is L-1 now, right?

I don't know what you were up to with this, but my V/La starts tomorrow. So I am still online, only not when I am sleeping.

Actually, its a test to see if he watches this thread, you can post during V/LA, the second part is limited access, but still access.
And yes, but no one is listening to me and this needed to be done, lest you falsely assume he is town without a proven statement.

RC reason is quite stupid actually.

Vote: COnsPiracy

for that avatar.

Con's eagerness to promote folks to L-1 early seems to be partially dissonant to his 'Don't Quickhammer' stance. (Reasoning: L-1 increases the chance of quickhammering---reason why you avoid it in RVS.)

First:

Call me CS dammit!

I hate the abb Con.

ibarra, COP=cop
Cs hates being called con.
con cop= rolecop= mafia rolecop
Actually, the basis could be placed on just Con here, as Ibarra is definitely random. but yeah. Little to no basis and flimsy proof. I held this in till now just to provoke a response from him

Wow, I feel so stupid I didn't see that breadcrumb.
Anyways, I alsways tell every one that I hate the abb con, also in other games. And there is no reason for me to claim rolecop as it is an only scum role.

[ConSpiracy]

I'm ready to hammer Theam, the thing about CS not being able to kill sounds appealing but not foolproof but let's try it anyway.
If everyone agrees I will drop the hammer.

You should hammer today then, let's say in about 8 hours I won't be able to be online for at least three days.

No, scum maybe would kill you if you was town and Theam scum. Otherwise they have to nk or make you confirmed townie when a kill happens

All right, I got it.

Just in case: (Morthas wait for this too please)

@mod, are players with a night-action allowed to send them in before the night starts?

If they are, I'd rather wait for Stels to have him tell us his thoughts.

[ConSpiracy]

This will be the last post I am able to make and the next 3.5x24 hours I am not able to be online. So I suggest that the hammer comes in at those times.
So hammer as soon as possible then.
If not hammered in about 12 hours, it might be better to wait, though, as it makes no sense to rush a lynch when there is no clear reason to.

[ConSpiracy]

Ok, that flip I did not expect.
Actually both flips I didn't expect.
Theam had newbscum all over him and Morthas would be a perfect buddy for him. (and could be scum with someone else, too)
Well, I have to re-organize my reads again as at least one of my three town reads has to be scum...

Anyways, as 4nxi3ty said, do not vote. It can cause a quickhammer. Even when thinking the suspect is scum, it would be very disappointing to lose the game with something that stupid.

And for AeRyung (and theam, if he is still reading the game):

Mass-claiming

When the game is in LyLo, the best thing town can do is mass claim. A mass claim is have every remaining member claim their role to gather as much information as possible to find the remaining scum. LyLo may be the last time to use the information as it is crucial to lynch scum. Mass claiming is usually done with pop-corn claiming (someone is chosen to claim first through different ways, he chooses the second claimer who chooses the third claimer, etc).

However, since newbie games have a semi-open setup, we know already there are no power roles left. It has no use to mass claim, because every body would claim VT (every body should).

Since two of the three scum-reads are dead, I believe Johhog to be scum for the same reasons as listed before. Also, I really didn't like his last two posts about Morthas being the doc. It seemed as if he was careless with his first post and tried to cover it in his second post.

From the other three, I still believe AeRyung to be town. She posts as town a lot of times, though misguided on me.

Stels could be scum, I didn't like his last post day 2. Actually his day 2 play was odd. All day long he accused theam but ended up voting for Morthas. It seemed as if he didn't want to be responsible for the theam wagon.

4nxi3ty is also odd, too. He posts as an agressive town leader, but is on the site since March? How many games have you played? As far as I know he only had an opinion on theam yesterday. He can get away with any opinion today, which gave possible 4nxi3ty-scum a huge advantage.

One of the most important things that I have learned in this game is that you should not be swayed by other's opinions unless you see everything in their perspective and you see they truly fit after rereading over everything yourself because there is a possibilty you might be listening to a scum's suggestion in scumspecs and votes. It is amazing to see how much you can learn by rereading these posts after lyches and nightkills. I personally still do not feel that theam is scum, but I hope to goodness he is since the lynch has been done. But em.. before night falls, I would like to give out my two cents if theam flips town. I still feel that CS is scum. Also, Johhog. They've questioned eachother a little bit in the middle but nothing after that, nothing to threaten their position. Productive townies always question to be able to read the other player, but so do productive scums. CS questions a lot, Johhog questions a lot, but to eachother it is very minimal. And after I post this, they may question eachother a little more but if those words are not genuine in a sense, it would be pretty obvious. In regards to theams post about CS not liking to be called "con" and CS calling that situation a breadcrumb? Why would you use the term breadcrumb if it is just something that you said because you really don't like to be called con? A breadcrumb is usually in regards to something you left behind mistakenly or without notice. If you were town, you would have just stated that you just don't like to be called "con", because being town, you have a more simple and relaxed state of mind. Please don't say it's because of your english because your english is perfectly fine from what I see, and you are a smart kid, I can tell. Also, after writing my statements about hiplop and CS being possible scum buddies, I asked you a series of questions but you brushed it off basically saying, "I don't have all day you know. Also, I had a lot to comment on." If CS had town motivations, he'd be answering questions for the sake of town so they can read him as much as he questions others and tries to read them, not a smart remark and leave them with nothing. Oh yes, you did leave with something... accusations towards theam. But after seeing IC's misjudging eachother characters on day 1, I don't trust anybody's judgement so easily now and neither should any of you.

As for Johhog, I will write later if I am still alive, I need to wake up in 6 hours for my first day of class for this semester. I get the feeling I'll be nightkilled for some reason, that is why I write this. I havent completely written everything that I wanted but my time awake is overdue. If theam flips scum, kudos to CS and johhogs both, if not, you guys are going down. At least CS is. Gnite people.

I said it before IIRC, but please use paragraphs, this is so hard to read.
About the con/CS thing, I always tell it that way, because asking it the polite way doesn-t work. Every game someone calls me con, I tell them "Call me CS, dammit! The abb Con is lame"
My English is fine, I only sometimes make mistakes in wording things. That doesn't occur too often and I have never used it as an excuse to validify scummy behaviour.
Where are you talking about of the questions about hiplop-CS scumteam? You are the one that didn't answer my response on the case.

P.Edit: Johhog, I was online around twelve o'clock today for the first time, so the gambit would have worked if the day ended earlier.

[ConSpiracy]

I'm a little busy right now, but I plan to reread the game this weekend with both 4nxi3ty and Stels as main targets to find out who is Johhog's scumbuddy.
In the meantime:

4nxi3ty, it was end day 1. ISO AeRyung to find it. And on your agressiveness, I still cannot imagine someone that is relatively new to the game that posts this way. Can you link your other two games please?
Stels, (I assume you were talking to me) I know that, but you completely ignored theam with your Morthas vote. If I would sum up your posts day 2 it was like this:
- Saying in every post theam is scum.
- voting for Morthas for some reasons (a lot less noted compared to theam-scum reasons)
- Continuing to say theam is scum.
- 1 answer on Morthas response on your case.

The theam-vote/Morthas-vote reasons were not in line with the suspicions you showed in the thread at all.

[ConSpiracy]

:S I'm getting onto MS pretty damn late, and tomorrow I promise I'll post.
@CS: Yes, I understand that I was ignoring TM, but he was still #1 even to the point until D2 ended.
TM wasn't going anywhere and TM knew that.
Also what strikes me weird is, why are you questioning me about this? Is it bad to focus on other people too? Yes I was tunneling TM throughout 2 days, but I need to follow other people too, you know.
Oh please, do tell me what I said and for what I voted for then.

It isn't bad to have more scumsuspects, but it is off that you didn't put your vote on the player you focussed most on. Why would someone vote for the player that is his second scumread? That's as if that player doesn't fully believe his own reads.

@CS: I understand why you said your "i hate getting called con" post. I truly do. But the term "breadcrum" is more suitable for a scum to use rather than a town. It's like saying "*gasp* I can't believe I left a clue when I'm doing so well at being protown tehe I made a booboo" Having a town mindset, you would have not called it a breadcrum, I assure you.

Where are you talking about? I never called my own "hate called con" a breadcrumb.

CS is over thinking things as far as I can tell. I don't mind taking responsibility for the TM wagon. IDC, he was my main focus this entire game. Disregard Morthas's vote and place my Twilight vote in his stead onto TM if you would like. I have been attacking TM while voting Morthas, yes. True. Fact. Do you really think I wouldn't follow that up with a vote or a hammer when the time was appropriate? I have said so before, I was always for lynching TM. If I didn't want to take responsibility for the TM lynch of anything thereof that relates to TM, why would I, during Twilight, even bother with voting him?
Are we trying to pull at straws here?

How do you mean I am overthinking things? You might not mind taking responsibility of the TM wagon, but you didn't do it. Instead you made a hardly useful vote on Morthas, which brought him no pressure at all, since it was the only vote he got. The twillight vote seemed more like an insurance that your day 2 eventually was lined up with your votes. I see less town reasons to twilight vote than scum reasons.

[ConSpiracy]

I'm a little busy right now, but I plan to reread the game this weekend with both 4nxi3ty and Stels as main targets to find out who is Johhog's scumbuddy.

With the timing of AeRyung's vote it is almost impossible for Johhog and Stels to be scumbuddies.
Johhog, at least attempt to build a case based on my predecessor's action. Just cause you reapeatedly call me scum won't make it true.

I disagree. It would be a pretty high risk to have the quickhammer happen then already.

@AeRyung

, the breadcrumb I meant was Ibarra's bad breadcrumb. I would have played a lot different with that in mind regarding Hiplop.

Johhog's case is überfail. Convinces me he is scum.

4nxi3ty still doesn't feel right to me. However, I hardly believe 4nxi3ty to be scum after the huge pressure Johhog applies on him now.
Johhog-Stels is the scum-team, calling it now.

I will reread the game after I catch up in another game.

[ConSpiracy]

@CS Can you explain why that's a breadcrum?

Because he used some kind of hidden message in his post that could be used later on. Why he'd use it when it's wrong, I don't know. That'll be post-game discussion.

Due to me being behind in another game, that game got my attention first and I couldn't get anything up in this game this weekend. However, I read Stels's ISO and I am embarrased that I turned such a blind eye towards him, most likely because he seemed as convinced as me about theam scum. Main things I didn't like:
- Hardly any interaction with some of the players in this game.
- Only finds players scum that are widely suspected by other players (theam: CS/Ghostlin, Ghostlin: hiplop/Morthas, Morthas: CS/after Morthas says Stels=neutral-scum, CS: AeRyung)
- Day 2 odd play, theam as main target but votes Morthas instead to avoid responsibility.

So Stels and not 4nxi3ty. The next thing on my agenda is to show why Johhog is scum.
After that I am ready with this day. There is no use in waiting for the end of the day to vote as the activity isn't booming at all at the moment.

[ConSpiracy]

Ibarra wrote:
Vote: COnsPiracy for that avatar.

I still don't understand how what i pasted above can be used later in the game. He would use it when what's wrong?

I don't know either, that is what I meant. Why he would use it when it's wrong, I meant this: Why he would breadcrumb it when it's wrong (ie he isn't a cop)

[ConSpiracy]

Stels isn't in prodding range.

I'd say 4nxi3ty's case is rather interesting.
However, it solidifies my read on him as newb-town.
He is using wiki which is a common newb-tell and is trying a bit too hard to discredit Johhog with bad reasons. He reminds me of myself in my earliers days. (town ofc)
The case still isn't right though. Once I have the time, I will show why Johhog is scum.

[ConSpiracy]

First time I'm doing this, but I am solely posting to avoid a prod.
There is not really much to comment on in the thread (most things Stels say about 4nx's case are right)
I am actually waiting to find some spare time so I can make a case on Johhog myself.

This however caught my eye:

Policy lynching Morthas is the next best thing after lynching TM. What I mean here is that Morthas is an eye sore to me in mafia games and vice versa. As you can observe in the first post that I made or when he greeted me, we have a tendency to cast each other into our scum-list.

2 reasons why you voted Morthas, yet one contradicts the other.

[ConSpiracy]

I wish I had time to go through this mafia game but my political science + math classes are killing me... If you guys have the time, I would like to hear your opinions on who you think is scum with valid reasons for them. As for me, I'm suspecting Johhog because of his prompt response to his mistake for the last lynch. Comparing everyone's written intellect, I feel that CS is the only one who's witty enough execute the night kills that have occured thus far.

I need more than just witty for the accusation that I chose the night-kills.

Torromow I have some spare time and I will start working on a Johhog case.

[ConSpiracy]

Ok, I fail hard.
I thought I had enough time to make a case, but due to me stalling a bit (and being busy with other games) I have left 30 minutes to make it. I will start with it, but I won't be able to end it today. The first day that I will be able to do something will most likely be thursday, but that is a bit close to the deadline.
I will just speed up the case a bit and hope I can finish it soon enough.

[ConSpiracy]

I FUCKING HATE THIS!!!
I WAS HALFWAY WITH THE CASE ON JOHHOG WHEN I ACCIDENTALLY CLOSED THE WRONG TAB!!!!!!!!
@#$^@#%&@%#^

At least I still know most of it, so I should be able to make it faster. Possibly I can make it tomorrow.

[ConSpiracy]

Why Johhog is scum. Every time I had some spare time today, I worked on it. Every thing from yesterday I recall being in it, but if I remember something else I will post it.
And I had some spare time, so everyone is lucky with links to posts. I didn't check them though, so there may be some mistakes in them.

Paradox

Before Johhog came in, we had another player, Paradox. Paradox had planned a good short term strategy to avoid being lynched and was replaced at exactly the right time to have it pass unnoticed. He was lurky and the posts that he had he tried to avoid discussions as much as possible and tried to please everyone. His posts are an example of it:
In post 78, he posts that he thinks nobody is suspicious, which pleases every one (no pressure, etc)
In post 96, he posts, after being called out for having no suspicions, that he thinks BKWM is slightly suspicious, who had three votes on him already. (Avoiding, etc)
post 99, he posts why he thinks BKWM is suspicious, after being called out for it again. He gives a very basic answer, again to avoid discussion.
In post 119, his last post, he hardly needed any persuasion to keep him on his stance of the above posts. He tried to stop the discussion as soon as possible and pleased Morthas by saying he was right.
So basicly all he did was avoiding discussion and pleasing others, which is very scummy.

*side-note*

This post of BKWM is a wonderful scum-buddy post to paradox:

@Morthas¶dox: thoughts? even if you have no suspicions, you're opinions can only help us find the scum. when you get the time, paradox, no pressure. Enjoy your family time.

"Hey scumbuddy, please do a bit more! However, do not see this as backstabbing."

Johhog's going with majority.

There are a couple of examples were Johhog just does what everyone thinks. The first example is right after he caught up:
In post 210, he says his four scumreads were Ghostlin, Theam, AeRyung and Soulblade. However he only continues his reads on Ghostlin and Theam. Both were the biggest wagons at that time.
A second example is here:
In post 475, he posts that the night-kill might be done to frame Theam. He did this after both Theam himself (In post 466) and Morthas (In post 469) said this. And after being called out for it, he suddenly changes his opinion to "that's not the reason" (In post 483).
a third example can be found in these posts:
In post 650, he says for the first time that he thinks aobut a CS-Theam scum-team, directly after 4nx said that.
In post 662, he posts that the CS-Theam scum-team looks a lot more possible to him.
And in post 665, I am Theam's scumbuddy. Before 4nx said anything like that he didn't even think of the idea and he switched from "maybe" to "it is" in 15 posts.

Johhog on Ghostlin's claim

When Ghostlin had four votes on him and hiplop asks for a claim, he reacts quite odd. His first reaction (In post 255) he said that Ghostlin claiming VT would mean town should lynch him. That way he gives himself a good reason to place the hammer, as he apparently thought that Ghostlin would claim VT. However, after Ghostlin claimed Jailkeeper, his reaction changes a lot. His first reaction (In post 290) he says he doesn't believe the claim at all, with a reason that Ghostlin was just trying to survive as scum. This is odd, because it wouldn't have mattered what Ghostlin claimed: VT means autolynch, PR means scum trying to survive. That is not everything, though. A few posts later (post 296, post 298 and post 305) Scum always fakes PR to avoid being lynched and the claim shouldn't matter at all to the reads. Johhog bent his "rules" about claiming to his scummy liking, so he has a reason to support the wagon.

Johhog's agreeing with AeRyung

At the end of day 1, AeRyung posted her thoughts about a CS-hiplop scumteam. Johhog agrees (In post 389) with the case she made and apparently thought a CS-hiplop would be a scumteam that made sense. However, 2 posts later (In post 407) he says that hiplop is his best scumread (if Ghostlin flipped town) and I was his best town read. That completely contradicts with his agreement of AeRyung's case. I said something about it back then and he gave some half answer (In post 421) that he only agrees with me possible buddying to hiplop. If that was right, he would have said something about that earlier, but he agreed with everything in AeRyung's case.

Johhog's self-discrediting

A minor, yet addable reason that has to be mentioned, as well. In post 506, he mentions his own gut to be "paranoid" and says his gut feeling for Stels is "not so strong" and "partially OMGUS". It is a common scum tell for new scum to discredit their own reads. They do that, because it is easy to come off as not very confident and this way that's easy to accomplish.

Johhog's nervous reaction

I could make a long story, but first read this post:

If theam self - vote Johog =scum.

If he self-votes as town or scum? What do you mean?

When day 2 was halfway done, Johhog treats Theam as obvious scum. Then 4nx says this, and he suddenly wants to know if 4nx means town or scum. He suddenly isn't sure of his scum read whereas in his other posts the only thing he posts is obv. scum remarks. He is nervous as to what 4nx means, as he doesn't want to have suspcions and therefore totally forgot that he had suspicions on Theam. That's nervous scum.

Johhog's knowing Morthas's role

Last but not least, this post:

I'm a fucking idiot and I think that I basically told scum that Morthas was the doc. More content later, I'm a football (the real, European version :p) referee and have a game soon.

How did he know that Morthas was the doc? How did he know he was the one that told scum that Morthas was the doc? This is a major scum-slip. and his reasoning why is craptastic.

So Johhog is scum. Stels is his scumbuddy, but he will come day 4.

@mod

, when is the deadline?

[ConSpiracy]

I will not be able to respond to the case till this weekend most likely (maybe tomorrow), but as I can say, it really isn't an response.
I'm not sure what to think about on 4nx's vote.

[ConSpiracy]

All right, I really have no time to answer...
I'm very busy at the moment and will have some spare time this sunday.
But yet again I am not sure if I can do something then.
Maybe I can fix something tonight.

[ConSpiracy]

Also:

V/La friday and saturday

[ConSpiracy]

Obviously I can't answer about the Paradox part, as I have no idea about his reasoning.

That doesn't mean it isn't scummy.

The first example is right after he caught up:
In post 210, he says his four scumreads were Ghostlin, Theam, AeRyung and Soulblade. However he only continues his reads on Ghostlin and Theam. Both were the biggest wagons at that time.

Correct. I can't pursue four scumreads simultaneously, so obviously I had to choose my biggest ones. AeRyung was mostly a vague gut feeling I got when I first read the thread. Soulblade's status as scum was at the time, in my mind, very dependant on Ghostlin flipping scum..

Yeah, but you didn't pursue your other two scumreads at all. That's fake.

A second example is here:
In post 475, he posts that the night-kill might be done to frame Theam. He did this after both Theam himself (In post 466) and Morthas (In post 469) said this. And after being called out for it, he suddenly changes his opinion to "that's not the reason" (In post 483).

Well, do you think that I should refrain from posting my opinions just because someone else agrees? I don't think so, eh? As for post #483 I clearly said "If we try to leave all of the WIFOM out", the WIFOM of course being if the kill was designed to frame Theam or not..

You discredited a theory "you thought of yourself" with those 10 words? No way that would happen, as you would have thought of it yourself as well (the WIFOM part)

a third example can be found in these posts:
In post 650, he says for the first time that he thinks aobut a CS-Theam scum-team, directly after 4nx said that.
In post 662, he posts that the CS-Theam scum-team looks a lot more possible to him.
And in post 665, I am Theam's scumbuddy. Before 4nx said anything like that he didn't even think of the idea and he switched from "maybe" to "it is" in 15 posts.

I like to reread. IIRC I partly did a reread during that time..

LAWL, one reread makes me from possible to obv-scumbuddy after never having noticed it? Yeah, no.

Johhog on Ghostlin's claim

When Ghostlin had four votes on him and hiplop asks for a claim, he reacts quite odd. His first reaction (In post 255) he said that Ghostlin claiming VT would mean town should lynch him. That way he gives himself a good reason to place the hammer, as he apparently thought that Ghostlin would claim VT. However, after Ghostlin claimed Jailkeeper, his reaction changes a lot. His first reaction (In post 290) he says he doesn't believe the claim at all, with a reason that Ghostlin was just trying to survive as scum. This is odd, because it wouldn't have mattered what Ghostlin claimed: VT means autolynch, PR means scum trying to survive. That is not everything, though. A few posts later (post 296, post 298 and post 305) Scum always fakes PR to avoid being lynched and the claim shouldn't matter at all to the reads. Johhog bent his "rules" about claiming to his scummy liking, so he has a reason to support the wagon.

Yes? VT = Autolynch according to me, at least that early. If he claim a PR we have to think it over a little more, but in Newbie Games scum almost always claim a PR if they're facing a lynch, so therefore it's full of WIFOM and I don't really take the claim into account that often. My philosophy tends to be that we probably should lynch those that we got to a claim (on Day 1 that is)..

You said: "The problem is that if he claims VT, we have to auto-lynch him." If you think the way you are saying now, you'd not have said it this way, but more like: If he claims, we most likely have to lynch him." With this post you said that VT means auto-lynch and leaves a PR open, not that we should lynch regardless of the claim.

Johhog's self-discrediting

A minor, yet addable reason that has to be mentioned, as well. In post 506, he mentions his own gut to be "paranoid" and says his gut feeling for Stels is "not so strong" and "partially OMGUS". It is a common scum tell for new scum to discredit their own reads. They do that, because it is easy to come off as not very confident and this way that's easy to accomplish.

Oh, this one is complete bullshit though. I'm a very honest player, and I've a hard time to lie even the slightest. I thought it would be fair to tell you that my gut is paranoid, and it's ALWAYS influenced by OMGUS (sadly). How is telling you this a scumtell?.

I smell WIFOM. Anyways, it's a scum-tell, because it discredits your own reads. It lets you have less responsibility on your reads.

Johhog's nervous reaction

I could make a long story, but first read this post:

If theam self - vote Johog =scum.

If he self-votes as town or scum? What do you mean?

When day 2 was halfway done, Johhog treats Theam as obvious scum. Then 4nx says this, and he suddenly wants to know if 4nx means town or scum. He suddenly isn't sure of his scum read whereas in his other posts the only thing he posts is obv. scum remarks. He is nervous as to what 4nx means, as he doesn't want to have suspcions and therefore totally forgot that he had suspicions on Theam. That's nervous scum.

I wanted to convince myself that Theam was scum. I was

so

sure, but there still was this small voice in my head telling me that he was town based on his late-D2 play. And I asked because 4nxi3ty never explained his post. He still hasn't..

I call bull shit. You wouldn't have to worry about it if you had a strongs scum read on Theam as you pretended to have.

Oh, a slight thing I noticed: You say "4nx" instead of "4nxi3ty". I'm almost sure you're the only one here who does that. A very small thing, but still interesting..

I shorten every name if I am saying it often. And of course when it makes sense.

CS, in short you're case is very fucking weird. I have to agree with a lot of your case, as it actually describes what I've been doing pretty accurately. I don't get how it's scummy though. To me it seems that you try to paint perfectly normal behaviour and sometimes outright town behaviour as scummy. I don't know what to say, but I don't particularly like the case.

That's fine. It's normal if you are scum.

@4nx

, why did you unvote?

[ConSpiracy]

thinking johhog and stels might be town buddies and cs/aery couldn't coordinate a quicklynch.

You think so? Because I could have easily dropped my vote on Johhog as of my case. However I wanted an answer on it.
Johhog can you please answer the case before tomorrow?

I will think today aobut the possibility of an 4nx-Aer scum-team. Tomorrow I will put my vote down.

With that:

@mod:

V/La this week. Most likely only be able to post on tuesday (and a small chance on thursday).

[ConSpiracy]

All right, I am in no mood to waste a lot of time to wrapping quote tags arount the things Johhog said, so i will do it per point.

1. Yeah you can. At least more than leaving them alone (or agreeing with them) like you nearly did. But for scum it's better to follow the biggest wagons, as that would more likely result in a town lynch. (of course, if they are town)
2. I gave up on NK-analysis in newbie games. I only use it when there is such an obvious reason for it. Anyways, the point I made didn't reach you. You thought about the reason for the night kill (as is shown in your post), but still told us the idea. Later on you vanish your idea with a reason that is easy enough to think about yourself. How convenient to do that after being called out for it.
3. No need for ad hom. Off course thinking is needed when rereading, but going for an obv-scumteam read is bad if that wasn't even noticed before.
4. It's not nitpicking, it is showing why you adjusted your opinion to an positive effect.
5. Ooh, self-meta. No other defense any more? Scum like to self-meta.
6. No you shouldn't when they were already confirmed scum to you. Especially if you tried to link him in a scumteam, something that means that he is already conf. scum to you. Also, this answer has no relation as the question wasn't about that.
7. That's all? I'm not lying. I called theamatuer theam all the time, and we aren't a scumteam.
8. Why? I told in every point seperately why it you were wrong. There is no need to say every thing again.

I have thought about the 4nx-Aeryung scum-team. It would make sense (4nx voting Johhog, waiting for me to vote so AeR could quickhammer), but AeR is too much of a town read to me.
Let's end this.

Vote: Johhog

This way, if Stels/AeR post without voting Johhog, these are the only teams left:
Every one with Johhog
4nx-CS.

[ConSpiracy]

unvote: Johhog
vote: 4nxi3ty

Stels, please be quicker with the quicklynch next time. There's a reason it isn't called a slowlynch.

[ConSpiracy]

unvote: Johhog
vote: 4nxi3ty

Stels, please be quicker with the quicklynch next time. There's a reason it isn't called a slowlynch.

I love you. I hope you did not take offence with my cursing on you Day 3, I was trying to make it look like I was really mad at getting caught (because I thought I would get lynched in the end).

So now I've desperately tried to delay the game the last days, as I was afraid AeRyung would vote me (and she probably would've too in a day or so). One question though CS, why did you put your vote on me during Day 3? I was almost punching my screen in rage when you did that. Stels said he would vote 4nxi3ty after your response, but when you voted me we went through the risk that AeRyung would quicklynch me. Was you going for towncred, or what?

Btw, good game everyone.

Off course I didn't take offence of you being mad at me. It was all part of the game.
Your delayance of the game drove me nuts, actually. I was purposely lurking a lot because the only way we could win D3 was you cross voting 4nx. I would get too much suspicion crossvoting Stels, as you were my "main" target. And I didn't want to vote you first, as a Johhog-CS crossvote would mean one of us would be lynched. I voted you, because I had delayed my vote for you too long already. I was scared Stels would notice it and change her vote. Note that I said that I would vote yesterday as well. I had to take the risk, I rather have a win then a possible perfect win/lose.

anyways, I liked us two playing together. It was wonderful.

I have nothing against releasing the QT. Is it OK for you CS?

Sure

Dead QT is a wonderful read.

I will do a player analysis as soon as possible, but that most likely will be sunday.
Also I will post my 3 part diary I made during day 3, because of the stalling. (If DY wants to post it earlier, I am fine with that)
And some other things that I wanted to say.

[ConSpiracy]

Spoiler: CS diary

CS diary part 1:

1. The night kill was the worst kill we could have done. Morthas was the PR, that's true. But with Morthas we had a very good mislynch. The doc claim wouldn't have helped him to save his lynch most likely and the mafia would have won. However, because of the doc claim and me not being around to discuss it with Johhog, there is no way scum will be able to have a perfect win.

2. The situation in this LyLo is interesting. If we make a list of who every one suspects to be scum it would be:
Stels: CS-anx
AeR: CS-Joh
anx: Joh-CS(/Stels)
CS: Joh-Stels
Joh: anx-Stels
This shows us that the only way that we are able to win this is if I am going to be mislynched. However, I am curious as to how anx's read is at the moment. I am waiting for his read, I want to try and convince him that CS-Joh isn't possible to secure the win. If I find out enough evidence for that, I think I can vote for Johhog. That way the votecount will soon end in (hopefully) this:
CS (2): Johhog, AeRyung
Johhog (2): CS, 4nx
A more ideal situation would be when Stels votes for me earlier so AeR seems to become the confirmed town, but that situation is less likely.
Anyways, this way we can pretend the two scum-teams to be different, as the votecount says: CS-4nx and Joh-Stels. That way, if (or rather) when I am lynched, Johhog can kill AeR and have a three way LyLo with Stels-4nx voting each other.

Anyways, I am just waiting on 4nx a bit more and aside from that am stalling to vote because I don't want to have this seem fake. It is crucial that I vote later on, and these damn 3 week deadlines do not help. And I hope Johhog will understand it.


CS diary part 2:

After 4nxi3ty made that case on Johhog i found another interesting piece. Namely that I convinced him that Stels-Johhog would be the scum-team in his eyes.
If that escalates far enough, I hope Johhog will understand that he should be voting 4nxi3ty soon enough. With a piece of luck Stels will vote 4nx soon after that so I can hammer him. This will only work though, if Johhog will vote 4nx first OR if 4nx because as impatient as the he was at the end of day 1. And of course if one of these two will be the first to vote, otherwise there will be no reason.
Other than that, we also have Stels who can vote me first. I have my hopes high enought that 4nx would vote Stels then, too...

Too bad that the one who wants to vote the most is the one that shouldn't vote :-/
And on top of that, too bad that I have to have Johhog as my top scum read, for scum-buddying purposes, because otherwise I could have voted Stels to make this happen myself. Oh wel, we will see. We still have 3 weeks to go and lurk the hell out of this game.

CS diary part 3:

I wanted to do this a lot of times, but lacked time to do it. I'll make it a quickee, as time is important (and this isn't really)

GODDAMMIT! 4nx, put your vote back now! That way Stels will vote earlier and I can hammer.
Seriously, everything went well when he voted that soon.
Now hope that one of the other three can tell him why a CS-Aer scumteam makes no sense at all. I'd better not do it as I coached him far too much already, It will be noticed and used as me not being his scumbuddy.

And the deadline is still dragging on and on and on...
Luckily I can use my V/La as an excuse to lurk, otherwise I wouldn't have any reason to keep my vote of Johhog.
Never had such a convenient V/La.

BTW, i will announce my V/La either tomorrow or tuesday in thread. If I do it now, I have to respond on 4nx and i simply can't do that.
So please do not say that I am V/La.

Read it or not, it may be fun to read m thoughts.

For every player in the game:

Ghostlin

I was honest when I said you weren't scummy. All right, you lacked a bit of information and opinions, but that is rather small and defenitely wasn't worthy to be lynched for. I guess you were like that for the sake of being under the radar for your PR? Anyways, you shouldn't try to do that as (as I said) I had a bit of a PR read on you as well. If that's not the case, maybe next time don't try to be a too good of an IC and you will do fine. Anyways, you are more experienced than me most likely, so there is no need for this I think.

Hiplop

Well, you didn't play bad. You had Ghostlin lynched even when he wasn't very scummy, but you were pretty townish as well. Also your precedessor (Ibarra) made a wonderful move with his breadcrumb which made you from a mislynch to a night kill. That could have gone very bad, though, so luck played a part. Anyways, next time, try to tunnel a bit less. As I said before, a PR made sense for Ghostlin. Also, it seemed a bit as if you were coaching sometimes. It is a good thing if unnoticed, but when it is noticed, you may become a suspect as it is rather scummy.

Theam

I feel sorry for you. You were such an easy mislynch that I hammered on for you until the end to have you lynched. I was lucky that hiplop did the same with Ghostlin so my doing it didn't immediately mean I was scum. I think I have said what you should do next. Try to keep away from WIFOM, try to voice your opinions a bit more and ask others questions to know what they think about things. That way you will become a good player.

Morthas

Hmm. Not sure what to say. You played extremely par, not good but not bad either. Because of your PR you lurked (at least I hope it was because of your PR) and didn't have good reads. However those are a lot more important than a doc who succesfully protects someone just 50% of the games. (That's nothing as you'll have MyLo then) Well, I guess you know what was wrong.

4nxi3ty

I have never seen a newbie played so much as a professional. I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not, as your playstyle is the most annoying one of the game. Some times being purposely anti-town and very pushy in things and making bold statements. However, if you learn the game a bit more, you'll be a very good player as this way of playing is usually the recipe of success. Learn a bit how LyLo works is my tip and with everything else you will do fine!

Stels

Unlucky Stels. You have been wrong all over the game (Ghostlin, Theam, Morthas, Johhog, 4nxi3ty). I have a bit of a feeling you let others influence yourself in what they say. It seemed like you followed (as was my small case on you) both me and hiplop at start and you didn't do much yourself. A bit of activity and effort in the game should give wonders. However, as you are IC eligible yourself, I think you know what you did wrong.

AeRyung

You were a good scumhunter. Though you thought I was scum at start for the wrong reasons, you had me as scum all day long. At the end Johhog was suspected to be scum as well and you nailed all of the scum team on day 3. On top of that everybody had you as town. However, the major part of what went wrong with you is that you didn't push your own reads. Nobody actually listened to you (apart form Johhog, who didn't want to stand out as my buddy) because you did nothing with it. For example, if you had answered my reasons why your case on me was crap, I would have been lynched day 3. (I thought that would happen) Also, your LyLo play was far too lurky. Try to put more effort in attacking your scum-reads and keep the rest.

Johhog

You were a wonderful scumpartner to play with and did very good. It was a surprise to me that you were almost the day 3 lynch and I wasn't because of the reads of every one. Well, that most likely was because of 4nxi3ty voting you. The only thing you should do better next time is to stick a bit more with your opinion and try to have them not being influenced too much by others. That way you will play a wonderful game.

DarthYoshi

Great modding. The thing at the strart of the day was a bit annoying, but I guess you were too excited to start it. Good activity and a good amount of votecounts. The replacements were found fast so that was also very enjoyable. A thing I wanted to ask, did you base this game on the reads of the newbie from Tasky? (you were IC in, I was JK) It seemed like that and there is a reason for it. VRK accidentally put me in your newbie game (when I wanted to see how ABR would play as SE). And I replaced in there. I used that game as an example of how I wanted to play in this game. As Morthas said, it is an easy play for scum, but it works (as shown).

Anyways, thanks every one for the great game!