Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Whiskers]

/in, conf.

[Whiskers]

It begins? oh good.

[Whiskers]

Oh wait, still waiting on three players. :/

[Whiskers]

Ugh, a whole nother DAY almost before we can prod the lurkers.

Start the game already, you stupid lurkers! Why won't you check in!?

[Whiskers]

What a waste. You'd better be fucking kidding me.

[Whiskers]

I've seen fake Daykills Day 1.

I've also seen real Daykills Day 1.

I've also had mods who would take that joke and, if you were a DayVig, have it carry over to Day 1.

Also, Friend is scum-- not Omgussing, either, but he's snuggling up to Substrike, and already bandwagonning on the first, easiest candidate.

Vote: Friend

[Whiskers]

Yes, the reason is that you're scum hopping on the first one.
At least, I assume. You didn't give any other ones.

I won't wifom you and say that sucm wouldn't play that poorly, because the succinctness of your posts so far don't show me that you're going to be a highly contributive player.

[Whiskers]

Because I'm upset about the possible Daykill of a player who might have been town? Because of I'm upset about Substrike22's softclaim?
...Because I have a vote on me and you won't get blamed for starting the wagon?

"The reason should be pretty clear." Well, it's not. instead of letting me come to my own conclusions, why don't you be a pro-town player and aid communication, instead of hindering it. Tell me what exactly you meant here.

[Whiskers]

Obvious joke is possible daykill. I expect it was a reaction fish, which is why I just said, "You'd better be joking" instead of revealing it as a reactionfish.

Like I said, on my native forum, that would be taken as an actual daykill, if the player was an actual DayVig.

[Whiskers]

Yes. Explain how the syntax makes a difference.

If Scumhunter flips scum, then you can lynch me all you want, because I'll admit, that would look really scummy.

However, I make that kind of mistake when scum. And there's no reason to think that Scumhunter would be scum. So why kill him?

[Whiskers]

Well, the game hasn't started, either. With the beginning of Day 1, what would happen if you found out that your Daykill had gone through?

[Whiskers]

If he was really a dayvig he wouldn't jokingly use it. That would just be stupid.

Then I'm used to playing with stupid players.

However, I'm also used to playing a game horribly unbalanced in scum's favor, and town winning anyway.

[Whiskers]

Then I'd be confirmed town.

Yep, I hadn't thought about that. Anyway, you're not so much scummy, I've seen that trick as a reaction-fish and clear a newb townie. I think Friend is scummy.

But this leads me to my first question:
What do you do with shitty town players? If the Daykill had gone through, and you were confirmed town (although, aren't there any other Daykilling roles, ones that AREN'T town-aligned?) would we let you live?

Okay, this speculation is getting to far-fetched even for me.
I think we

would

let you live, even after pulling a crack move like that, if you were conftown.
But I would not like keeping you around, either.

[Whiskers]

I said you could lynch me, because the original thought to post was
If scumhunter is scum and I'm very upset about his being Daykilled, I'd vote for me
Or,
...I'll replace out of the game.
The first doesn't serve any purpose, the second would be harmful to town and I won't do it anyway, But If I do something so obviously scum-telling as that, I would not resist a lynch. I'd hang my head and cry.

[Whiskers]

I dunno.

Also, now we have more than three players in the game.

[PREEDIT]
Right, which is why I didn't say it. Not only would I Not replace out of a game, like, ever, but It would also be more harmful than helpful.

[Whiskers]

Also, Friend is scum-- not Omgussing, either, but he's snuggling up to Substrike, and already bandwagonning on the first, easiest candidate.

Vote: Friend

Also, like I said, we have MORE than those three player now, so any of them could be mafia, not just one of us three.

Is anypony coasting under the radar so far in this game?

{PREEDIT}

[Whiskers]

Darn it. preedit didn't work. But anyway, here it is:

I think he voted for Pana since she gave a read And didn't vote.

[Whiskers]

What? No, it was quoted.

Do you want it to count? Why is it so important to you that I vote? I'm already a dead mouse, cat, so stop trying catch me.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, it was Friend pushing Pana to vote people.

Still, I'm curious: Why do you ask? Is it important that I vote Friend again?

[Whiskers]

of the three of us, he was the one that was obvscum. In a three person game, there can only be one mafia, so really, I only had to focus on him

Now we have a game where there could be as many of four mafia (I estimate), and while he is my top suspect, he is not much scummier looking than the rest.

[Whiskers]

Can I say it like this?:

Let's say we have three colors, yellow, blue and green. One of these is much more obviously yellow that the others, while green has some yellow in it, and blue none at all, yellow is the yellowest.

Now, let's add ten more colors. These colors all have yellow in them to, to varying degrees. Yellow, though it still is quite yellow, is a bit more hidden in the tide of yellowish colors. While it may, in fact, be one of the three most yellow colors, now there are other colors to analyze.
__
I'm having a really hard time explainin ghtis in a way that makes sense.

[Whiskers]

Silly filly, I wasn't talking about scumhunting!

[Whiskers]

Kay.

I have to be the player who's too dumb to live in this game, but i'm a dead mouse, and unless I sit on my hands and do nothing until you exhaust all the scum you can get out of me, you'll just keep pushing for my lynch. W/e. Lynch me.

Until then, maybe you guys should

scum-hunt?

[Whiskers]

I somewhat agree but also encourage early wagoning, though a lynch in the second RL day of D1 would piss me off.

Whiskers is clearly acting scum.

Early reaction to a random day-vig

(which somewhat implicates Scumhunter, but not really that badly, even if Whiskers flips scum... struck me more as Whiskers trying to score town points than raging off of his buddy's death.),

reluctance to place a vote, and finally a lack of any real scum hunting.

All of his discussion has been about why (he's?) not scum, versus who is scum. There was a mention of Friend being scum but it was, in my opinion, somewhat reaching at straws in an attempt to steer a counter wagon away from (himself.) So... yeah.

More thoughts to come...

No friend, I have, in fact, NOT been doing any scum hunting. I've been defending myself, which only opens me up to more accusations. That is why I am putting a stop to it. I refuse to defend myself any more.
As to whether or not I WILL get any scum-hunting done, we'll see. I'll do my best.

[Whiskers]

I'm not liking Whiskers's play at all, but I've been insta-targeted Town and not liked my play, either.

First, I've gotta ask what this means.

Whiskers, you're right, most of your posts have been defense, and that doesn't look Townish. What do you think of your wagon? More people are posting- who's yellow-est to you now? Has it changed?

No, and that's why I haven't done any real hunting: I've been defending myself, and I haven't seen any glaring scumslips in the attacks on me.

Because your analogy supplies that the addition of other players only conceals the initial yellow from the three-color scenario, but doesn't change nature. Okay. So by your logic you should still be pursuing your first col- I mean player.

I know, which is why my analogy doesn't make sense the way I want it to. I mean that now,

in comparason

, he doesn't look any worse than the rest of you. Where he looked glaringly scummy before, he only looks minorly, comparitively scummy now. There's a lot more to compare him to. [/quote]

Furthermore, we have 13 players. Would you really call yourself a "dead mouse," on page 4?

Yes. I've grown quite attached to using the phrase. When players keep tunnelling hard on players who already look like a probable D1 lynch.

[Whiskers]

Worst case scenario, (for my survivability,) I get lynched.
Y'all could lynch a player who was mafia, you could lynch a player who was

More

powerful than me. Could be better or worse. Either way, me feeling sick to my stomach from whatever I just drank has helped me to realize that I won't hear the end of this bullshit until I post something. Give me a couple of minutes.

[Whiskers]

Gotta start with a lame player: Monk. yep, I capitalized your name.
ISO:

Spoiler: monk

1, Confirm.
2, fluff.
3, Weak reason to cast a vote. Especially since we're out of rvs, I guess, and I look scummy.
4, votes me, finally. Gives a Bullshit reason though, 'talking about scumhunting isn't scumhunting." Well, I wasn't talking about it. You were.
Then he begs Owlbear for his list. Why?

_________________________________
Next is iamusername.

Spoiler: ISO -1, since it starts at #0!?

1, /foncirm. Already joking, I see. Still it's post #3, i think that means he was the first to conf.
2, banter and checking up on history with another player
3, the end result to that history checking-- Panacea played a good scumgame, apparently. Also, here he reassures me, saying "I'm sure he had a good reason" for the nightkill. What kind of good reason? This doesn't look like a joke-- I mean, it's not formatted in a way that tells me it is a joke. It's not just being silly or something, like his conf. post.
4, I hope you're joking here. If you think I'm town, playing in a very VERY different style than usual, and that probably means I'm mafia.
5, Meh. weak vote on bobsnox who, as far as I can tell, didn't have any idea what was going on. Apparently a tl player, who dr, he just walked onto a battlefield with a bag full of "Derp."
6, Accusing bobsnox of not posting when he wasn't supposed to be posting.I'm surprised the mod didn't come in and tell us to stop it, I thought he would.
7, Still doesn't give an explanation for his bogus read on me. Then is still (U)MAD at bobsnox for not posting when nobody should have been posting. Then goes on to gently explain away my yellow analogy in the same way Pana-- it was Pana, right?-- did, or will, or does. I forget, chronologically.

Oop, and I guess that was his last post.

_________________________________
Ha, ha, ha. OMGUS LTR, time to do his. He only has two post though. one being his confirm, the other being a response to a prod and giving no explanation as to Why he's voting for me. Well, except that I'm "the only one who stands out." Thanks for you fantastic insight and scumhunting. Man, where would we be without you?

Wait, is that Hammer?

[Whiskers]

That's LTR, my bad, and Nope, that's not a lynch. Must have gotten confused with another of my games, where I'm the top lynch candidate.
More ISOs in a bit.

[Whiskers]

EBWOP: No wait, that was ME that said LTR. LTP Mafia. Sorry about the name thing, bro.

[Whiskers]

Here's one that's a bit more meaty. Almost nearly ten posts! WOW! Not bad for the first couple of days of Day 1, plus some pregame stuff.
Come on guys, why don't any of you post?
Anyway,

Spoiler: Panacea, ISOs

0, confpost. aknowledges her link to iamusername.
1, Says that her NK of him (in another game) should be taken as a compliment.
2, Wishes the Mod a Happy Birthday. Really we probably all should have done this, a happy mod makes better games.
3, legitimate player-to-moderator bullshit question post.
4, Decent, reasonable stuff. Won't go into detail, look it up yourself. All of it's good here... mostly. I tried to explain the self-sacrafice thing as a stronger version of "I'll eat my hat," but it didn't make me look better. also, not sure why it's such a big deal that bobsnox took his RANDOM vote off after he got shot for it. The random vote in the first place was dumb, but I've talked a bit about that.
5, bullshit. not fluff exactly, because it's related to the game. Talks about not liking to pressure lurkers, accuses bobsnox of walking onto the battlefield with a bag full of Derp.
6, Tries to get iamusername to explain why he thinks I'm town. +1. Explains to monk why she didn't vote for bobsnox anyway-- it was real weak. Kay.
7, No, I wouldn't say that. I'm not entierly sure what you mean, but if it means what I think it means, then, no, I wouldn't say that.
8, What does, "early targetted town" mean? And what does it have to do with you not liking my playstyle, and what does it have to do with not liking YOUR playstyle!?
Then, I don't really have a great read on any player yet-- although, this whole thing is helping a lot. already explained that what looked really scummy (Friend) in a pool of three players looks comparatively less scummy in a pool of fourteen. Or, thirteen, apparently. The reference to a "dead mouse" is when I volunteered to be a lynch in a game, and one player replaced in and began tunneling me until he got me lynched. He wasted his time, the town's time, because they couldn't have a conversation about anything else, for some reason. I said that he was a cat who was trying to catch a dead mouse.
It's catchy. I like it.

_____________________________

Substrike22:

Spoiler: Substrike, ISOs

0, confirm.
1, OMG DAYKILL!? Maybe I overreacted to this-- You all seem pretty certain that I did. I am not.
2, Joking, then says he's found scum. How you so sure, bro?
3, No, he wasn't dead YET. There's nothing to say that the mod wasn't going to come in and say "oh yeah, and that daykill worked and now Scumhunter, Doctor Cop, has been Day Killed. It is now Night One."
4, Is calling someone a moron for not getting a joke Appealing to Emotion? In anycase, how is my point on Friend "interesting"? If I wanted to deflect away from myself, or OMGUS somebody, I'd have voted for YOU, Substrike22, not Friend.
5, Modfluff
6, Votes me, tells us to refer back to his pregame stuff. I assume you mean #2 and #4? Or just #4??
7, Tells me I'm scum. I'm scum for something I didn't do (or rather, doing something that I didn't threaten to do), and for my thing about his Daykill on Scumhunter.
8, quotes me with no additions.
... whatever!
9, All of it true, up until the point where 'all of this discussion about how I'm not scum verses who is scum.' What do you want me to do? This is why I called myself a dead mouse, Panacea. Well, an end to how I'm not scum, I've found a new hobby.
Then of course, there's the bit about Friend. i made it almosst immediately after he declared with unbelievable confidence that i was scum. I don't think I ws grabbing at straws, and I wasn't trying to start a wagon so much as point out that what Friend was doing was bullshit.
10, Hey hey, double digits. Here Substrike22 complains about lack of activity. That is certainly a problem with this game. Accuses bobsnox for inactivity. Why is everyone up in bobsnox's grill, I wonder. It's not like he's the only player to not be playing.
Then there's more deadmouse catching. I decided to stop defending myself, that apparently is an appeal to emotion.
Then some stuff, I don't like it, but I suppose it's valid.
11, Isn't THAT an appeal to emotion? Also, I'm pretty sure nobody at this point had brought up tunneling, let alone accused you of it. Why bring it up if you don't think you're doing it?

[Whiskers]

Son of a bitch.

Mod, can you fix that to spoiler= please?

Your wish has been granted. I'll go back into my magical lantern now.

[Whiskers]

We'll hold you to that -- I mean, you'll be expected to post more frequently.

@Friend: Why not

Both

of them?

[Whiskers]

Hmm, perhaps. I looked and It DOES appear to be in chronological order-- at least, LTP did vote after monk did.
There WAS a page of fluff in between though.

I don't know, I still like the idea of monk as scum. Well, w/e. Chances are he's just a badtown player. Why do we get so many of those here?

monk, get your ass in here and post some content.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers: there's many differences between scumhunting, and just being rude. Chiefly, you're doing one of them.

Really? I bet it's the first one.

@Panacea: Where does your grain of salt wane? be specific.
And, yes, you've mentioned the RAGING inactivity in this game. Gonna do something about it.

[Whiskers]

I think this is the game where I said that I would simply NOT try to defend myself anymore.
I stand by that-- come at me bro. If you have a good case, make it. I still think my Daykill freakout was not wholly unjustified.

And I like the reads imusername has given to the wagon on me. Perhaps this whole thing will be more useful that I'd hoped.

[Whiskers]

I don't like it either: only I and the only player who hasn't loudly attacked me are scum, on his list.

Although, I have to applaud him: He's playing the game now! What a big improvement!

[Whiskers]

Suits me fine.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, for some reason all my posts today seem to be oneliners.
__[preedit]
I was about to vote bob. I'm not super conf. he's scum, let the feeling I get ferment for a few hours, then I'll vote him. Who I don't like is LTP, but I guess he's a null because he's posted so little? Here's who I really don't like: Musicninja. Yep, enough of this is OMGUS, but we have a lurker starting out his playerslot, then we have a scum read on players who were (at the time) aligned with me-- although I'll admit I'd forgotten that iamusername had declared me town with no explanation at that time (so was technically aligned with me, too). Then the whole bit about Townie-survivability.

Now, I have a few strong reads on who I'm confident about their being town-- Three that I'm strongly confident, including me-- and Musicninja isn't one of them.

Vote: MusicNinja

, so you know where my mind is.

[Whiskers]

Also, I could support a bob lynch today, but not yet. We need more evidence. Always good to start the game off with a scum lynch.

Which is why I'm voting you. UGH! I'll make a case later... 9___9

[Whiskers]

No, because I want to lynch scum.

[Whiskers]

Vote: Bobsnox

.
I'll even call it Omgus.

[Whiskers]

Excellent point! ISO forthwithcoming:

0: Replace conf. Says he'll get right to scum hunting
1: Finds me instead. "Doesn't like the wagon forming" on me.
2: Bullshit that doesn't make sense. Ask for individuals, as iamusername (wasn't it?) said, all of these are not true.
3: What IS your "plan to beat the scum"?
I voted (mainly) because I don't like you. But I am making a case.
4: "I also boblynch, but we must evidence!" So, you follow the crowd-- that's the bit I'm picking up here. Is :It's good to lynch scum the first day" an Appeal to Emotion? or just regular filler?
5: Wants evidence for a lynch... is that why he hasn't put his vote on me?

I'm seeing no votes, I'm seeing soft-core wagon support. I'm seeing coming in under the radar and agreeing fervently with the other players. It's not enough to lynch you for, but it's enough to not like you for.
What is this whole thing about Not Voting, anyway? Do you think I'm scummy? No, let me rephrase that: Do you think I'm Mafia? Then vote me. Your combined ["I want to lynch scum the first day!" "We need more evidence!" and Not Voting] look a lot like the guy who took his vote off of me because I made a Vanilla Townie claim. He said, "I will not mislynch!" Um, right.

If you think I'm scummy,

vote for me

. No, sorry, I take that back: If you think I'm MAFIA, vote for me. It's the only way to win.
I'm pretty sure you guys have enough people who want me dead, to make me dead.

[Whiskers]

I don't really care. Actually, I'd prefer to die at night.

[Whiskers]

I wish. No, I am not a bomb. Are you a bomb, bobsnox?

[Whiskers]

I also can see how Whisker's votes seem to be for anyone but himself. Not great town play I'll admit but survival instinct is not solely a characteristic of scum necessarily. Townies don't want to be lynched either and I can think of some reasons a town-sided player might act that way.

Actually, Not voting for myself is something new that I'm trying out.

[Whiskers]

Maybe. He seems to want to not lynch you though. I won't say it's unlikely that you're bussing each other here.

Bob, if you are wrong about Me and Noramp, who are your NEXT scum reads?

[Whiskers]

Tovy, you're back, come and play.
Also, just looking through Tovy's Isolated Posts, Looks like his case on me is: Big reactions, and rudeness.

Tovy, do you have any OTHER reads?

I'm still looking at Whiskers as my primary suspect, with bob not following that far behind.

"Bob following not far behind." What does this mean? Where does this come from? Where's your read on bob? Is it gut? Are you recycling other players' reads? Would you bother giving up any other information than that I'm rude and I "over"reacted to the fakekill?

Who's your third pick for scum?

[PREEDIT]
Thank you for posting something, at least.
Also, I assume you're referencing me.
[PREEDIT 2]
Funny because it's true. What makes it even funnier is that you thought I was kidding.

[Whiskers]

Yay! But how do you mean, they "just sealed the deal"?

[Whiskers]

MusicNinja, if you're saying you want evidence for a lynch, then why in the hell are you not questioning bobsnox? Why isn't your vote even on anyone, for chrissakes?

Weeeell, I like this one especially.

I'd like to vote Musicninja, but I can't yet. If I move my vote, My wagon becomes the biggest and it looks like I'm flopping around.

I'm still going to pull an incredibly dangerous move here though:

Unvote.

MY oppourtunistic vote will be between bobsnox and Musicninja. Musicninja looks bad, and more scummy. He looked scummier faster. bobsnox looks bad, and scummy. However, Since I reckon it's a Whiskers-or-bobsnox lynch today, and if we lynch me you'll forget about bob & MN, I'm keeping my vote open so I can hop back onto Bob.

That's my thought process.

[Whiskers]

Loud, persistent scum can convince players of many things. A Whiskers lynch is not out of the question at this point. Even if I convinced you to vouch for me, You are one player, and I honestly Do Not Trust the other players to Not lynch me to avoid a no-lynch situation.

[Whiskers]

Wait, wait, I thought

I

was scum. Why the switch, bob?

Vote: MusicNinja[/i]

[Whiskers]

Vote: MusicNinja

[Whiskers]

Tovy, I hope you're just misguided, and not scum. The way you're playing, it will be really hard for them to lynch you.

Tovy, you're back, come and play.
Also, just looking through Tovy's Isolated Posts, Looks like his case on me is: Big reactions, and rudeness.

Tovy, do you have any OTHER reads?

I'm still looking at Whiskers as my primary suspect, with bob not following that far behind.

"Bob following not far behind." What does this mean? Where does this come from? Where's your read on bob? Is it gut? Are you recycling other players' reads? Would you bother giving up any other information than that I'm rude and I "over"reacted to the fakekill?

Who's your third pick for scum?

Hm, I think I already SAID this somewhere...

[Whiskers]

The way you are playing-- Hm, how do I define it? You certainly stand out to me. Not as scum; in fact, I think you're likely town. You look... clean? I really don't know how I can explain it to you in a way that makes sense.

I think you're probably town, you look town, so I hope you're not scum, because you don't look like it, and a scum player who looks like a town player is a dangerous kind of scum player.

[Whiskers]

I agree with both of Monk's points:
"First, I can get behind Iam's town-Whiskers justification back on #143, mainly because my read on him is more panicky-town with scummish twinges than outright scum at the moment. Plus the game he linked us to checks out."
And then she puts me on her probscum list.

Don't worry, I'm not forgetting that you did pick up good tells on me between those spots in the post. Still, if I'm scummy, vote me?
____________________________________

Next, your vote on LTP; he's lurking or something. maybe he's just abandoned. I'm pretty sure we're not lynching him today, [preedit, I just ;ooked and we've still got a good week left,] but we've put vote pressure on him before and it did nothing.

Vote pressure on him did nothing, and now he's about (probably) to be replaced. Why put your vote there? It's not only safe, it's encouraging a nolynch. Your actively lurking-- doing something that has the effect of doing nothing.

Am I wrong? Am I not correct here?

[Whiskers]

I don't have a third pick right now.

I don't go waving about accusations and attempting to recklessly build wagons.

Hey Whiskers, to answer your question: my third choice right now is Friend.

Because he asked you a question?
Information flow, bro, is pro-town.

[Whiskers]

No, I

asked

if you were recycling tells. I do it all the time and it's not overly scummy or anything, but I wanted to know what basis you were using.

I know, Friend has been playing like that all game. He played like that at the beginning. I said something about consise posts and him not contributing much.

TBH I let go of him because it was making me look bad to attack him, I didn't really have very good reasons for doing so, after the game started, and because he was asking the right questions and placing the right votes. He is so strong and confident (sounds sexy.) that with his encouragement I moved my vote to MN. Nopony HAS questioned him, but that's because he hasn't done anything scummy and he has been right here and willing to answer stuff.
Maybe that's just how I perceive him?

[Whiskers]

The last time you made a point was six posts ago. That was four days.
I don't think we'll miss you that much until monday.

[Whiskers]

Yes.

Want a longer answer? Yes, because it was drawing a lot of unwanted attention to me. I was trying to get some players to turn around and look at Friend and maybe consider that he was scum, but it wasn't happening. I stopped attacking him because it was going to get me lynched, which statistically would have have been bad for town.

[Whiskers]

Welcome to the herd. If there's anything I can do for you, just ask.

Spoiler:

Day is slowing down, why is there so little activity?
I understand not everypony can be on MafiaScum from noon to Three-A-M (like me), but Nothing is happening..

[Whiskers]

o___o

[Whiskers]

Here, how about this: I saw this in an other game, so ,

Nolynch in mylo?
There's your question.

[Whiskers]

Who the hell is packbat?

And probably, yeah. They're both on my wagon now, right? I'm not entirely certain abou teither one of them, and I'd suspect Not both of them. While it's entirely possible, I think it's unlikely (just seems to be the way it plays out) that you'd have two shit scum players in a game. Maybe the bad play of one would prompt the other to step up and not suck ass, I don't know.

[Whiskers]

Well Maru, I want to take the credit and say, "Yeah, yeah, I was totally doing that!"

But I'm going to be honest and say, "No: I was fucking afraid."
It's Day 1. My personal main goal is to not get lynched.
I'm not going to hammer willy nilly or anything, but if we're about to lynch a scumspect of mine and I feel threatened for some reason, I will save myself over somepony who is not confirmed (to me) town.

[PREEDIT]
Heh, I was like, "DUH! If she's town she won't know, you're only damning her to hang when she gives you a yes-or-no answer!" I didn't say anything though, in the 0.001% case, where Panacea would stoopid-scumclaim and out both of you.

As to your vote on bobsnox:
Magikarp uses Splash!! It's Super-Effective!!

[Whiskers]

He's being replaced, if I understand correctly-- in fact, his slot is up for grabs in the Mini Normal sign-up thread.

"OMG outting PRs is bad" syndrome-- we have an open game where every player has a unique role, and we have that in town. MAssclaim is obviously better for town, but...

Anyway, I agree with the argument here, the same argument I made in that game: I'd trade a PR for a scum. (especially if we have a doc or something)

[Whiskers]

iamusername, everytime you post you piss me off. You are too lazy to explain stuff and I don't know why. flow of communication is important for the town? w/e. TBH, you're clear with me, but TBH it's mostly because you finally cracked and gave out the wall of why I was town. This is two things: First, you broke your playstyle. Your playstyle I don't like, when you broke it I did. Second, reverse-Omgus. Like, Hurray, *hug* you said I was town and gave good reasons for it!
Can't really put a whole lot by the second one, can we? not any more than regular Omgus.

Tovarish, you are acting like the "smart player" in this game. I'm not sure how true this is, but if I had to peg one player as using the logic and the math, or at least, expecting him to, it's you, bro. I hate hate hate how you come across-- I said something about this earlier; you look like a townie. So I really hope you aren't scum.

[Whiskers]

Spoiler:

144, ISO 10, Is an attack against bobsnox that mentions MN in passing-- giving a nice look at how they could be scumbuds together, but MN is only mentioned once.

173 & 178, ISO 11 & 12, Are about MN "being okay with a bobsnox lynch" and asking bobsnox how he feels about it, and why MN is less in trouble about it than me. Or something I'm not sure exactly what it meant, I just let it go.

186 & 189, ISO 13 & 14, are asking MN how and when he will decide where to put his vote. with the greater emphasis on HOW.

Then 100 posts later, ISO 15, iamusername votes MN. "Feh."

290, ISO 16, is him explaining that he used the word "yet."

These are the posts that mention MN either directly or indirectly.
I get a better scum read from him than you are explaining, but your explaining sucks.

I don't really think you're mafia, iamusername, but I don't know what you're doing and the way you're playing doesn't look right to me.

[Whiskers]

So, you voted me, and quoted some posts-- could you give some explanation of why you're voting me?
That's the part you forgot. Is the explanation or, maybe, the read.

[Whiskers]

A second ago, it was that I said he was not scum because I am. Now it's that I'm saying he's scum and I may or may not be? That isn't even good bussing. Give me a second, I'll give you accurate paraphrasing of the quotes you took.

[Whiskers]

Quote 1) Personal survival is unimportant to any town role unless they're a PR and/or a survivor. Since I very much doubt the latter, and the former has been claimed by bobsnox, I find it suspect that your primary motivation for not dying was simply survival.
2) Bit of rolefishing combined with the suggestion for a massclaim on day 1. Also I would not trade a cop for a scum on d1.
3) "Hey I really dislike your style of play which I would normally find scummy but I know you're not scum because I'm scum and I know my team and you're not on it. I really really hope I'm right about that."

1) Just because bobsnox claimed a power role doesn't mean he is one, also, just because there is one power role in the game does not mean that there is ONLY one. I'm not counter claiming, I'm not claiming a PR or survivor, I'm claiming that I want very hard not to die. I am fully capable of taking my death with grace, I have learned reasons not to be emo and hammer myself, and I would die if it wins us the game. However, I want very much Not To Die.
2) I did no rolefishing. Where's the rolefishing? I suggested that in THAT game, the OPEN one with all UNIQUE ROLES that massclaiming was an excellent town idea. In this one where we have likely more than one of some roles, Massclaiming would not be great. What you think is "suggesting massclaiming" is me giving a little bit of background. The arguments against massclaiming in that game were that "Oh, but if scum claims cop and our cop counter claims, then we might lose our cop! D:" And the reply is that "Yeah, we MIGHT lose our cop, except that we'd catch a Mafia and if we lynch the right one our Doc could protect the realcop at night!"
In this case, how many mafia do we have? Two? Three? Even so, cutting down the mafia by 33% in exchange for one power role is not bad.

Furthermore how the hell are we gaining a confirmed scum in exchange for Bob's claim 2 pages ago? As far as I can tell he didn't investigate anyone on N0 and I missed the jump there.

ALSO, the way we could catch a confscum this way if is somepony counter claims bobsnox. Then we'd lynch either the CC cop or bobsnox, and they would either be a cop or scum. If we lynch the cop, we lynch the confirmed scum the next day. If we lynch the scum, we protect the cop during the night, forcing the Mafia to use their NK on somepony else.
I thought of a way that might not work in this game, and will bring it up in

a second

now. I'll just keep it organized by #: It may not work in this game because it is not an open game, and ther may be more than one cop. However, I will stress that in THAT game, where ALL THE ROLES ARE UNIQUE and there is ONLY ONE COP, this tactic works perfectly.
3) I Do find his play style scummy-- or rather, I find it clean, and "smart" and it pisses me off and I don't like it. I want it to not be scummy because if he's scum I'll never catch him. I'll ISO him at somepoint maybe, and see if I can find scum tells or something in it, but My real problem with him is that he looks too good and it is making my gut ache.

[preedit]: Personal survival beyond Day 1 as town is a personal goal.

[Whiskers]

Why is it that like every pretty female between the ages of 15 and 25 own an iPhone?

SO NOT FAIR

Advertising?

[Whiskers]

Yeah, seriously. Who are we waiting on at this point? The Day is DONE, as far as I can tell.

Does anypony have anything to say about anything at all?

[Whiskers]

Inactivity makes me

bored

If theres an active scum in the game, I'd rather have him around so that I can PLAY.

[Whiskers]

I'm not sure why you think I'm

not

[Whiskers]

I don't know if I ever answered this. I don't think I did.
Can it generate some discussion? Please?

The first doesn't serve any purpose, the second would be harmful to town and I won't do it anyway, But If I do something so obviously scum-telling as that, I would not resist a lynch. I'd hang my head and cry.

@ Whiskers, yes or no to what I quote there? If you don't know what I'm talking about the answer is probably no. Just trying to see if I'm reading part of that quote correctly.

Now, I MIGHT know what you're talking about, and I MIGHT be able to answer yes or no, but I don't know what your question is.

"Statement"

"Yes or no to that?"

"WTF?"

Can you explain what you're asking a little bit more, so I can answer it?

[Whiskers]

Music could defend himself, no?

Also, does it become okay to "direct power roles" when you are asked to do it? I've volunteered information of who I think the cop should investigate before, and it was "bad, because you should never direct power roles."

[Whiskers]

Yeah, I still like a bobsnox lynch better than a musicninja lynch-- well, that's not true. I don't like musicninja and want him gone. RAAAAAGE! But I trust bobsnox to be town less.
However, Bobsnox lynch won't happen today (probably), because he made a bullshit PR claim.

I assume it's bullshit.
____

Substrike22, can you give me your case on me again? Or link me to the post where you best summarize it or bring up your most damning evidence? I'm missing the part where I am scum, no joke, it is seriously absent from me.

[Whiskers]

Jesus, I think I would have wound up better informed, happier, and an altogether better person if I spent the time I did reading the last round of wall-wars on a pony thread instead. And truth be told, I've had more than enough of other games- whether it's people getting this game mixed up with others or insinuating that what they did in other games has any bearing on this one. to such an end I shall

vote- Maruchan

. The fact that you didn't know what game you were playing doesn't make me think you're town- it makes me think you're dumb. There is NO REASON at all you should lynch a person before he's been given a chance to claim, and doubly so when there's the possibility that he could be replaced.

Also, Maruchan watch your tone. Spastic reactions almost brought Whiskers to the chopping block, and he at least had the decency to be funny while he did it.

Lolwut?
Let's start at the bottom.
I was not being funny. I was being serious. Any funny is something that you injected into the situation.
Also, when did it almost get me to the chopping block??

If there is NO REASON why you can't lycnh a lurker who hasn't claimed, when he wil be replaced, then you're fucked, every player, Every player EVERY player EVERY PLAYER will just stop and replace out when it gets to near time to die. Bulls Shit.

His mix up with another game has no impact on whether or not he is town. You also think he is dumb. Cool, but unrelated?

Yeah, that's probably true, but you're playing mafia instead.

[Whiskers]

I already posted the posts I found scummy about whiskers

also, no you have not. We asked you in posts 341 and 342. Every post made by you since then has been about ME. you have not yet answered me or whiskers' question.

What do you find scummy about bob?
OSHI IM ASKIGN A QUESTION IN BOBS DEFENSE!! LOOKS LIKE I BUDDIED HIM!!!! ME AND BOB ARE SCUMTEAM!!!

What do you find scummy about friend?
OSHI I ASKED A QUESTION IN FRIEND'S DEFENSE!!!!!!! LOOKS LIKE I BUDDIED HIM!!!! ME AND FRIEND ARE SCUMTEAM!!!!

Heyyy I could be a fucking dick too,

I just choose not to be

.

What? Where!? I missed it.

Also your wikiquote definitely shows your pro-ness.

Bullshit, it shows Nothing! How does explaining something via a wikiquote show something?

And I definitely didn't spend 2-3 posts prior to you two grilling me on what I found scummy about Whiskers explaining what I found scummy about Whiskers, in an easy to follow 3 point guide.

Again, I totally missed this. I'll go back to look

One point I conceeded, the other two of which still remain valid in my mind.

And once I do, I'll come back and fix the problem.

[Whiskers]

While I do, what do you think of a Substrike22, Tovy, Monk team?
Just for speculation. I know some players have had suspicions of Monk, I've got a bad gut feeling about Tovy. I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

[Whiskers]

1) Obviously. But given the lack of a counter claim at this point, Occam's Razor suggests that Bobsnox is in fact the Sheriff.
2) If it's not rolefishing (which it still looks like to me, you're setting up PR's to have to come out and contradict you, because you're like "well in an open game," which as you just admitted, this is not...) it's a terribly bad set of assumptions.
3) Fair enough on that one.

This?
Point 1: Conceded. Sure, with no CC forthcoming, bobsnox could very well BE a cop. ..."The Sheriff?" Where did that come from?
This is not scum-proof.
Point 2: Don't know how it's setting up PRs to contradict me, unless you mean yourself. I specifically said that the scenario would work in an open game.
In fact, in this game even WITH a counter claim, bobsnox and the CC could still both be cops. This is a closed game.
This is not scum-proof.
Point 3: I don't know what this was, but you let it go, so w/e. Whatever it is, it's probably a big deal and we need to keep an eye on you for attacking players because of this in the future, so we can lynch you for inconsistency or some bullshit.

[Whiskers]

Also, I've got a great little post that I wrote up last night, it's full of rage and hate and it was from three pages ago. I fell asleep waiting for my internet to start working again. Would you like to hear it?

I just need one "yes" and I'll post it.

[Whiskers]

I would have called for an earlier lynching because there was no activity in the game.
One rage post coming up:

Warning: prsonal insults and stuff ahead. Read with a pinch of salt, or, you know, what ever.

Spoiler: RANT.

I know I said I thought MusicNinja was scummy based on the few things he had said when I posted reads, but I don't find his actions necessarily meriting a L-1 wagon really.

Then unvote. are you voting him?

I mean he has made 7 posts and been mostly inactive. Granted he hasn't been much of a help to town, but I don't know, I feel scum would probably be more frantic so as not to get lynched or something.

Good, good, I get what you;re saying, and I agree.

Meh, he could be just a lazy scum who got bored of the game and decided not to give a crap.

Then he doesn't deserve to play with me and I will fucking blacklist him and make as well sure as I can that I never have to suffer through a game with him ever again. He signed up to play the game. Play the game. Play the fucking game.

I do that sometimes.

Nope, this is where you lost me.

Something about this wagon feels a bit off to me. Too many eager jumpers on to this wagon with not enough evidence imo.

Sure! Why not? We don't have great evidence, but we don't have eveidence why he might be town either. I really like the idea of "He could be just a lazy scum who got bored of the game and decided not to give a crap." Why do I like that? Because it means that I can hang him. Really, there isn't a good exccuse to lynching town, but since he refuses to play a game he agreed to play, since he's breaking a social contract, breaking a promise to me, and all of the other players, but especially To Me, I'm going to say, he's scum. A Town-aligned player wouldn't lurk, wouldn't leave, Town players are town

PLAYERS

. Whether or not he is a Mafia-aligned role, he is not a town player.

And that's my rant on all lurkers. Go die, lurkers. Burn in hell. (Except if you're mafia, when it's a totally legitimate tactic.)

Spoiler: More rage

However, Bobsnox lynch won't happen today (probably), because he made a bullshit PR claim.

Your logic is poopy. If it's a bad claim I would be lynched. But it's not. So I'm wondering why you're insinuating that it's bad but you're not willing to lynch me. Don't want to mislynch the cop, eh scum?

Hey, cool, you've grown up a little!@ You're now talking like an Eight year old! We're so proud of you!
Blatant insults and appeals to emotion aside, No, YOUR logic is poopy. If it's a bad claim you may eventually be caught. We have no way of verifying your "not bad claim" unless we lynch you.
I believe it's bad, and I WOULD ge willing to lynch you. I'd feel a little un easy going into it, because you may Not be lying.
"Don't want to mislynch the cop, eh scum?" Well, if I WERE scum, then actually, I WOULD want to mislynch the cop. However, being town, I DON'T want to mislynch the cop, which is why my vote isnt' on you, and why I am hesitant to vote for you. One of the reasons, at least.

I was sorta writing you off as overly aggressive town but now I'm really wondering if substrike's not right.

Where the fuck have I been "overly agressive"?
Also, "if substrike's not right" that's cool, if he'd make a case on me. I can play the same game he is playing:

"Ohohoho, substrike is scum! I Already said why! You should go and look for it!"

Now I am a master scum hunter, just like Substrike22. Highfive, Substrike, We're MASTER SCUMHUNTERS.

More rage from me,. Having cooled down a little since I wrote this, I'm making the desicion to post it anyway, so y'all have the insight into my mind, and know what I' thinking.

Hate for all this work to go to waste.

[Whiskers]

IKR?

Also, with my whole thing about" a town player wouldn't lurk or leave":
Panacea, I thought that drops were mostly due to newbscum that couldn't handle the pressure (or something). I don't know, I don't know where to look up the stats, either.
Noramp: I don't, 100%. But like I said, a town player is a town PLAYER. If you are not playing, then you are not a town player, no matter which alignment you are.
Also, like I said, if you are not PLAYING I will do my very best to not ever have to play with you again.
Of course, people with actual stuff are exempt from this-- people who check in and say it beforehand, or have really extreme circumstnaces.

In this case, MusicNinja Transferred in, looked scummy, and disappeared.

[Whiskers]

I'm going to infer the meaning of "Chainsaw", and say, "Yeah, sure."

[Whiskers]

(It's either that or buckets full of Omgus.)

And neither one means that you're NOT Mafia-aligned.

[Whiskers]

Where did I defend him?

[Whiskers]

Sorry, let me rephrase that: Where did I defend him? I think he's town, but anypony who agrees with me gets free scumpoints.

If I'm making a valid case, I'd bet that I'm scum. If I'm not making valid points, but somepony is agreeing with me, I'd bet he's scum.

I'm not confident that Maruchan is town, but right now I'm drowning a little bit in my Omgus toward substrike22.

[Whiskers]

I think Substrike already brought that up. Read the thread?

That's not why I find him scummy, but it something I chose to point out. I think greatest reason why I find him scummy is the fact that he's pushing for me. Over other players, he wants me lynched. That's OMGUS, so I didn't bring it up.

Sigh! I'll go and read his ISO, if I find something good I'll post it.

[Whiskers]

My bad you're right Whiskers Substrike did bring it up unfortunately you didn't really say much about it when he did. Can you just clarify what you meant in that quote if that wasn't the reason you felt he was scummy and I suppose more to the point...

That's not why I find him scummy, but it something I chose to point out

Why did you feel the need to point it out?

Substrike himself answered this question in the immediately preceeding post.
All the other "evidence" I have against him is a bucket of Omgus.

Friend, why the hell am I not on your scumlist?

Also, I like you scumlist, and I'd like you to explain it. The only problem with that is, it lets any scum on that list go free.
ALSO, monk is not incorrect, those DO look very oppourtunistic. So, I guess I will ask you to explain them. Why Tovy, LTP, and MusicNinja?

[Whiskers]

For the info: if anyone here thinks I am counterclaim a PR, I am not claiming any role whatsoever. Even if you guys lynch me, I won't claim. Why? I simply don't feel like it. I won't make allusions to being a PR or beign a VT.

Tomorrow however, I will be happy to tell everyone my role 100%, if I live that long.

I don't trust this. I especially don't trust the bolded part.

Also, that is pretty much a softclaim of a PR, what you were JUST TOLD NOT TO DO.
Because you wouldn't claim scum.
Because you wouldn't hide-the-reveal Vanilla.


But more than that, I don't like/trust it because you will have a much smaller pool of roles to falseclaim at that point.

[Whiskers]

(by which I mean, you won't have to worry about claiming, say, doc, then accidentally Nightkilling the real doc, outting yourself. Instead, you can accidentally Nightkill the real doc and go "Oh, well... I'm a cop!"

[Whiskers]

I like this guy more and more. [/filler post]
[PreEdit]
That was about Friend. Damn you, Maruchan, for ninja'ing me!!

[Whiskers]

Maru, it might be in the town's best interest if you would lead the sword tip, metaphor, metaphor, etc.
Aslo, stop ending your posts with a smilie, it's making me rage.

There is something Off about Tovy.

Substrike himself answered this question in the immediately preceeding post.

So you were attempting a chainsaw defense?

Okay, tell me what the hell a"Chainsaw" defense is first, then I'll tell you if I was doing that.

[Whiskers]

Kay. That's not what I thought the "chainsaw defense" was and the name doesn't fit with the tactic in any way, as far as I can tell. I figured it was "chain" and then "saw" just added a cool effect and it caught on.

No, I accused Substrike22 along with the other two voting for Maruchan because they made three ducks in a line.

I don't recall defending Maruchan. I won't say I didn't do it, but I really don't remember, and I don't think I did. Give me a minute, I'll go back through my ISO and look for Maru-defending.

[Whiskers]

While I do, what do you think of a Substrike22, Tovy, Monk team?
Just for speculation. I know some players have had suspicions of Monk, I've got a bad gut feeling about Tovy. I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

Hey Whiskers literally spelled out a Chainsaw as her reason to suspect me

Edit: to remove the "T" typo at the top of the post.

"Editted 2 times in total", what was the second edit?

Next time, leave the T.

Anyway, I respnded to this saying I'd infer the meaning of "chainsaw." I guessed that it was a chain: Substrike was scummy because of these other two players that were scummy.

Also, can I say that the read on them was very weak and only had one point to it? I wasn't pushing it, I just wanted to throw it out there.

Noramp, where did I defend Maruchan? Where did I "go into a frenzy"? If you mean my angry angry rage post, It was written before Maruchan even came under attack. (I think? He only came under attack just recently, right?)

[Whiskers]

Apparently my internet breaks from about 100 to 700 hrs. That is another post that was written the night before it was posted.

[Whiskers]

lol, liek I said, I am just an idiot and should be ignored. The down-sided of

not having editable posts.

Oh, you can't edit yours?

[Whiskers]

No, I thought I was the only one.

[Whiskers]

...Because he was scummy enough to lynch before he bailed? (The obvious explanation is that he bailed because he almost got lynched (because he was scummy enough))

You all can feel free to correct me.

[Whiskers]

I vote for Panacea, she seems so levelheaded.

[Whiskers]

Hey we could turn it into a kingmaker game?

[Whiskers]

Majority +1?

[Whiskers]

So lets say we spend another 2-3 days getting a replacement, then we have like a week till deadline, you think in 1 week someone can go from being scummy to turning around and being townie enough to not get lynched? Unless you have a set of "Substrike's Five Miracle Questions To Cure Scummieness" I don't see this happening.

It's happened before. It's totally possible to go from everypony on one wagon and thinking one player is scum to lynching a formerly radar-bottomed coasting player. One week is a lot of time, that's why every day is THREE weeks long, so that confused newbies can let their ideas and stuff stew.

Interesting that you want to push a lynch. I'd like to have the day over too, but activity has suddenly picked up. If it can KEEP up until a replacement, then I am so down for it.

You make a lot of jokes and stuff, have you done any scumhunting? Though I don't think Iever defended you, I know you did defend me. I'm not sure of your alignment.

Vote: Maruchan

.
Now convince me to change it back.

[Whiskers]

"whiskers the original quote *snip*" What quote? It's been like, a year. I'll go back and look.
My rule of thumb is: "If you want your question fucking answered, accommodate the player to do the answering." In otherwords, help me hlep you, y giving me the quote.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers why did you defend Maruchan so hard? Why do you think he is town to the extent of going into a frenzy to defend him?

This is the first time you ask about me defending Maruchan.
Then I mention Maruchan in what has since been construed as a "Chainsaw defense"

I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

Here it seems that Substrike finds himself on the side of scummy simply because he voted for Maruchan?

This is me pointing out a group of three.

My bad you're right Whiskers Substrike did bring it up unfortunately you didn't really say much about it when he did. Can you just clarify what you meant in that quote if that wasn't the reason you felt he was scummy and I suppose more to the point...

That's not why I find him scummy, but it something I chose to point out

Why did you feel the need to point it out?

I explained this: Omgus was my only other attack against Substrike (at the time) and Omgus is frowned upon, here.

Substrike himself answered this question in the immediately preceeding post.

So you were attempting a chainsaw defense?

I answer this saying "Yes," but not really knowing what a chainsaw defense is. I answer YOUR question on the same thing, I actually ask you about what A chainsaw defense is, because it isn't what I thought it was, as it turns out.

ok whiskers you are starting to make me rage. You tell me to read the thread which i had done and now ive redone. So I will start over.

I originally asked you why you defended Maruchan. You asked for a specific point I brought up a point. You said it had been discussed already. I really beg to differ. You just accepted whatever Substrike said without acknowledging what he was talking about and in the end admitted that you defended Maruchan through a scum tactic, known as a chainsaw defense (attacking the attacker of your scum partner, if anyone has a better definition feel free to give it). So now I'll ask you again why did you defend Maruchan and what makes you so sure that Maruchan is town to the extent that Substrike is scummy for voting him?

So We start over, me asking you to tell me WHERE did I defend Maruchan? I'm not confident he's scum, and Substrike is scummy fort voting for him ONLY because it's the best evidence that I had (at the time) other than barfing Omgus all over the thread.

The first quote of yours. You ask me why I defended Maruchan. Quote a post BEFORE that where I Did defend Maruchan.

[Whiskers]

I'm confused are you asking for an additional quote? I potentially see an alternative way to read the original quote in question but you've yet to explain it that way either I think. I may have just been confused. Why did you bring up Substrike in the first place if all you had on him was omgus and didn't you think it would draw just as much attention to bring him up on the grounds that he voted for Maruchan?

Whiskers from my point of view you've done nothing but try and get around actually answering my questions. None of your answers come off as being just straight answers. I've tried to help you help me and that hasn't worked to this point.

I don't even know what the "Original quote in question" IS.
I don't know what I'm suposed to be explaining to you.
I brought up substrike because I don''t like him and I want him payed some attention to.
I wanted to point out that these three had a common bond, and it is speculated that we have three scum.

Noramp: What is the "Original Quote" that you keep referring to?

[Whiskers]

Yeah, I'd contact hiplop , but he already replaced in.
No wait-- wrong game. I WILL contact hiplop, he always seems to have thirty or so active games going on at a time.

[Whiskers]

There are some players who believe him because of his timing, and some players that Don't believe him --

because of his timing

. I don't believe him, I like him less than MusicNinja, but he also claimed a power role.

[Whiskers]

I think that the timing was indicative of, "If I don't claim now, the next time I log on I'll have been lynched." He was about to go away or something, if I remember right, and wouldn't have access when he suspected he'd be put at L-1 and Lynched. This is neither a scum-tell nor a town-tell, and I think you're all nuts for reading scum or town into it.
I think he's scum.

[Whiskers]

Panacea, no bob votes today even though he's probably scum.

MusicNinja votes are the way to go since we probably don't have too much time for a competing wagon and Maruchan is pretty clearly town.

How can you say this?
I mean, how do you know, how are you SOOOO Sure? You have pretty definate reads on everypony I guess, I jsut don't know How you're getting them or how you can be so damn sure.

[Whiskers]

So lets say we spend another 2-3 days getting a replacement, then we have like a week till deadline, you think in 1 week someone can go from being scummy to turning around and being townie enough to not get lynched? Unless you have a set of "Substrike's Five Miracle Questions To Cure Scummieness" I don't see this happening.

It's happened before. It's totally possible to go from everypony on one wagon and thinking one player is scum to lynching a formerly radar-bottomed coasting player. One week is a lot of time, that's why every day is THREE weeks long, so that confused newbies can let their ideas and stuff stew.

Interesting that you want to push a lynch. I'd like to have the day over too, but activity has suddenly picked up. If it can KEEP up until a replacement, then I am so down for it.

You make a lot of jokes and stuff, have you done any scumhunting? Though I don't think Iever defended you, I know you did defend me. I'm not sure of your alignment.

Vote: Maruchan

.
Now convince me to change it back.

I feel like I have repeated this a lot lately. -.- When someone I see is town is accused of scum, and the accusation isn't REFERENCED to their proof of scum (quoted), then yes I will "defend them" in asking the accuser to prove their accusations rather than just sheepish the accusations. Its like the point I made with substrike. I can say he claimed scum and he told us his partners name all I want, but none of you should BELIEVE me unless I provide proof that he has done so. You should ALL go to his defense and say "Where does he say that?".

Its not that I am trying to rush a lynch, I truly think musicninja is scummy. I think scummy people deserve to be lynched. IE: I think we should lynch this spot. So yes I will be advocating a lynch for him. Thats what I do when I see someone scummy. I advocate to get them lynched. THe reason I don't want to wait for a replacement? I HONESTLY BELIEVE that that slot is scummy, therefore I don't see a possible way for that slot to remove its scummieness. Anyone who thinks a replacement can fix the scummieness, must not believe the slot is scum, in which case why would you want them lynched? And if the spot IS scummy then a replacement coming in for a week won't change that, and it would suck for the replacement to repalce into a game, re-read 485 posts, then immediately get lynched out due to his predecessor's play.

I'm bored.
Usachan, can you make a vote and write up a case on somepony?

[Whiskers]

Didn't he already say? Dude, read the thread.

[Whiskers]

gender is irrelevant to Whiskers's play

this.

Furthermore, I think it's cute that you all use the terms "chick" and "dude." To quote Ouran, "I'll just call everyone dude and bro now."

[Whiskers]

I think we're all pretty pro Link.
Btw:
Maruchan is "Usachan." I Made my little brother watch the first episode of Ouran High School Host Club.
Also,

[preedit]This was supposed to be the beginning of that post. -____- fml.

[Whiskers]

Maruchan v. Substrike comes off as REALLY town on town.

But the folks egging them on from the sidelines are scummy as hell (looking at you, Tovarish/monk).

Anyways, guys, here are the 5 people that we are possibly going to lynch today, in my order of preference:

MUSICNINJA
PANACEA
TOVARISH
LTP MAFIA
MONK

There's GOT to be 2 scum in that group, maybe 3 if bobsnox is telling the truth. But shit, guys, come on.

Who the fuck do you want to lynch today, and don't say anyone not on that list.

Hikari Link took LTP's spot, right?
Is he still on this list?

I'm about to go and play ISO with Tovy.

[Whiskers]

"How you so sure, bro?". I'm always sure.

Secondly on the Scumhunter point above, there is truth, but I also feel it fits his meta... he plays quiet at the beginning then pegs 2/3 scum on his first post of the game (assuming he's town.) so I'm not too worried about it at this point. Especially with Whiskers still around.

Scumhunter, what's your reads and stuff? It's always cool to peg 2/3 scum in the..

Wait, quietly and the beginning, then pegs scum on his first post of the game. Isnt' the first post at the beginning?
______________________________________________

Tovarish, did your unvote have anything to do with Friend's preceding post, wherein he mentions thinking there was scum on the Whiskers wagon?

And to answer your question, Panacea it's a yes and a no. Not in the most literal sense - such as 'if I
m off the wagon I must not be scum' but more of a wariness of

how many players in this game are actually part of the Mafia that haven't been on the wagon.

I was simply operating under the fear that I may be ennabling some of the resident scum to bumrush the wagon and force a hammer before some of our more sedentary friends took their opportunities to weigh in on the game.

Please Tell me how many mafia player in the game had not been on the wagon by this point. I think it will help us a lot.

Friend, Substrike22, Tovarish, monk, LTP Mafia

Someone on this wagon is scum.

Yes. By my estimation, it's most likely monk, then Friend, then LTP, then Tovarish, then Substrike.

How do you feel about these reads now?

Friend if you think someone on the Whiskers wagon is scum...that implies you think Scum are bussing? Why do you find this a likely bussing scenario? Your vote seems firmly placed at the head of a wagon headed for a mislynch most likely and that makes me go -________-.

Yeah, I think that this is a highly likely bussing scenario. Whiskers played pretty badly at the beginning of the game and attacking his actions are a perfect way for scumbuddies to distance themselves from one another.

Does this mean you think that the players on my wagon are scum, but not me? I'm asking about what this meant then, not what you think about me or them now.

[Whiskers]

It's the scummiest, but give him the week and I bet he'll win you over, or that you're scum.

Also, what do you want to bet that he's the nightkill?
Well, him or Friend.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, then I thought you were scum and one or more of your buddies was voting you.

Good, good.
Mafia-game-learning question: Can you bus by putting a scum player on a wagon of a town player, and another scum player OFF of the wagon?
Can you bus putting two scum players on a town wagon?

Lastly, what do you think now? Do you think it's a good idea to try to reconcile that early list with the list you have now, and push that lynch?

[Whiskers]

Right now Tovarish and Monk are the only two that hit both lists.
I'd also like you to go through and ISO substrike22 twice, once with the mindset that he's conftown, once with the mindset that he's probscum. Report your findings.

[Whiskers]

Why would Friend be NK'd, in your opinion? He has at least faced a modicum of suspicion.

Oh?
I missed that whole suspicion thing. The best case against him is that he is brief and to-the-point.
Besides that, he's being useful. It is my preference to Nightkill based on utility, rather than on... well, anything else.
That said, once I get a mafia PM here, I may start NKing the most most talkative players. In one of my other games, I got lynched Day 1 and the game pretty much died. Nopony is voting, nopony is talking, they lynched me and I think it'll be a scumwin because they can't be bothered to play.

[Whiskers]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Whiskers

You quoted it yourself in your last post...

I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

The fact that you didn't know this was the quote I was referencing is sort of unfathomable since I paraphrased it in the post before your long post which quoted it and my paraphrase was way close enough to connect the dots seeing as I quoted you maybe two times during our exchange you had a 50/50 chance of choosing the right quote.

Is the common bond that they voted Maruchan?

At this point it's just obvious you are avoiding this Whiskers...

Sorry, I STILL never responded to this. The answer you're looking for is:
"DUH."

[Whiskers]

I personally think whiskers, music or monk are good lynches today. Thoughts?

Monk is also on this list.

[Whiskers]

FoS: Noramp, little to no train of thought leading up to the MusicNinja switch, with leans from his previous reads seeming to be towards Null.
I agree with Substrike on Whiskers atm, complaining about inactivity doesn't really help.
Further scumpoints for Friend since he wants to lynch someone who has a total of 8 posts and in most cases is simply the scummier side of null.

Monk: Is:
Anti Noramp
Anti Whiskers
Anti Friend
Anti Maruchan

Pro Substrike
Pro MusicNinja
Pro Tovarish

Noramp, Friend, and iamusername are anti-monk.

monk, tell me your reads and how you feel and stuff-- on LTP Mafia. Not on Link, although, you can do him too. In fact, no.

Read LTP Mafia for me. Then, separately read Hikari Link. You didn't do a lot of talking about LTP in your ISO, it seems.

[Whiskers]

While I do, what do you think of a Substrike22, Tovy, Monk team?
Just for speculation. I know some players have had suspicions of Monk, I've got a bad gut feeling about Tovy. I don't know what to do about substrike, but hes the other player to vote for Maruchan.

Link, whenever you're on, could you comment on this?

[Whiskers]

Anyway, sorry about all these little posts.

Vote: Tovarish

[Whiskers]

My sleep schedule is about to become a bit more regular: My father is disconnecting me from the internet each night at no particular time.

[Whiskers]

Well, Maruchan, your softclaim is that you said "I'll claim tomorrow!"
I figure you're probably a cop. Since we have two cop claims already, I figure I can just go ahead and say it out loud, what I think.

[Whiskers]

So, that was a softclaim for VT?

No, I understand WHY. Just, making the softclaim in the first place makes us (me) curious. Besides, you said you'd reveal it tomorrow, assuming you're still alive.

[Whiskers]

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

[Whiskers]

That's wrong though. There can be one non-normal mechanic.

[Whiskers]

i.e. A variant. I'm pretty sure. I may have misunderstood what "you can hve 1 non-normal role in your Normal game" means, but That's how I read it.
I'll go look at the board and bring you the exact quote.

I bring it up because if there's a sanity-level issue there's even More likely to be more than one cop.

[Whiskers]

Mini Normal Games

• Mini Normals can have a maximum of 13 players, but can be less.
  
• All flavor in Mini Normals must be public and must be entirely original. Flavor based on any sort of source material are considered Theme games.
  
• Roles must use standard names, and Role PMs should not contain flavor.
  
• The game can have either one or two Mafia groups and no more than one Serial Killer.
  
• There must be at least one Vanilla Townie, and a sample Vanilla Townie role PM must be made public.
  
• There can only be a maximum of one new/variant role in the game.
  
• Only normal mechanics and roles (besides the single variant) are allowed. See here for more information.

[Whiskers]

In the link, it give a list of explicitly non-normal roles and mechanics, and al ist of normal roles.

I figure the Mini Normal game can have (up to) one explicitly non-normal role, plus as many of the other "normal" roles as it wants, so long as two of them are scum, and one of the players is a Vanilla Townie.

Doesn't mean there HAS to be a variant, and from what I hear it's bad news to try to outguess the setup.

[Whiskers]

I will.
First I want to point out a couple of things. Bear with me.

[Whiskers]

Firstly, iamusername, if Link gets nightkilled, that doesn't mean that bobsnox is NOT a cop. If we lynch bobsnox and he turns up cop, it does not mean that Link is NOT a cop. It is entierly possible that they are BOTH cops.

Secondly, iamusername, if a non-sane cop isn't a variant, what is? The list contains pretty much every role in the game. All the ones on the "normal" list are regular and can be used freely. What does that leave? the ones on the "non-normal" list. All "new/variant" roles are going to be on the "non-normal" list. Therefore, (*I* don't think) you can't rule out for certain the possibility of a non-sane cop, or whatever.

THIRDLY, bobsnox, "Bomb" is a townie role, and if he was a bomb, that'd be a good thing and we shouldn't lynch him. IF we DID lynch the bomb, then we'd be sad, but it would not do anypony any harm-- the hammerer does not explode a bomb, only a nightkiller.

Fourthly, bobsnox, It may not be as valuable or trustworthy in a closed-role game like this, but trading a PR for a scum would be FANTASTIC. There are more townies than scum, and likely more PRs than scum, and if we could trade them off at a 1-for-1 basis until we ran out of power roles, and THEN have to rely only on scumhunting, the Town with power roles would win every time.

Fifthly, bobsnox, his counterclaim COULD make sense, and is not necessarily a scum gambit or trade. You really could both be cops.

Sixthly, bobsnox, I'm going to hammer you because you suck. If you were town, you'd play the game. I will not play with you again, given the choice. If you are mafia, that's even worse, because your team has few enough of you that you can't afford to be lynched for inactivity.

Seventhly, Bub Bidderskins,

Vote: bobsnox

[Whiskers]

So, let's look at Tovy and Substrike, okay?

[Whiskers]

Substrike22 2011-08-12 05:55:16 1 day 7 hours 60
Tovarish 2011-08-11 12:05:53 2 days 1 hour 30

I'll be doing ISOs while the Night.
Well, probably.

[Whiskers]

Then what IS a "Variant/new" role that is allowed?

[Whiskers]

So, I'm totally happy with a substrike22 lynch, (in the first few hours of Day 2. Sppedlynching is cruise control for cool!) but why is he scum? Link, you had a scum-read on him yesterDay, and Scumhunter, you didn't give any reasons.

Um, the whole thing between bob & me? I didn't really care one way or another between a bobsnox lynch or a MusicNinj lynch. I thought MusicNinja ws scummier, but as you may have seen, (and as somepony called me out on) I went back and forth between them.

[Whiskers]

That's cool. Works for me.

Vote: Substrike22

.

No really, wouldn't it be cool if we lynched in the first few hours?

Anyway, I'm sure Sub'll have something to say about this when he gets in.

[Whiskers]

IF you want to be mathy about it, yes.

However, we have fallen deeply into love with Link and the Mafia knows that. If they couldn't strike crippling blows they never would have risen to their prestigious position...

Besides, we all laredy think link is town, if he flipped town it would give us no new information. Link was really the Nightkill of choice. Attractive, insightful, charismatic, and a cop to boot. There was no better kill.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers is striking me more and more as a town member who I just managed to make hate me, and thus she seems hell bent on lynching me. Which is fine and understandable but I wish she'd reconsider. I think if there's scum just jumping on the wagon at this point it's one of the other two. I stand by my initial statement that Maruchan is probably scum but even then I'm not really sure anymore.

H--HOLY SHI-- What the fuck!?

When did the tables turn like that? I missed it!

Anyway, if you want to read some VI play, Meet THIS gamehttp://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=141374 it'll either make you laugh or give you a headache.

Also, Maruchan, I would LOVE to have you claim, but lets wait for a dramatic reveal (ie, when activity lulls).

[PreEdit]
Well, THAT's dumb. So, only roles you don't find in the wiki, basically? Bleh, that's dumb and boring. Man, I will spend ALL of my time in "special games" if I can.

As to your on-game bit, That's true. Still, I think we should assume it's true until we KNOW there's a Godfather or Framer. (A Framer will be EASY to get rid of) I've seen even Cop-Confirmed-Godfathers get caught and lynched as scum.

[Whiskers]

i don't remember where the special games are or even if they have their own forum, I only remember that you need special permission from mith to run one.

Maruchan, If both A & B are true, then they

definitely

will need to choose new player to perform the nightkill, since the Town roleblocker would come out and claim and we would lynch the scum she blocked.

[Whiskers]

Yes thats my point. I was saying they might not have readied there COULD be a town-roleblocker, and therefore tried to use the same mafia to get the n2 kill.

No. If there IS a town roleblocker, then they could not choose the same scum to do the NK, even if they wanted to. That Scum would be dead. Dead scum cannot do Nightkills.

If there is NOT a roleblocker, then we don't give a shit if they use the same one each night, do we?

[Whiskers]

Bub: Are you the kind of Mod who would throw in a "Gondolier"-flavoured role?

Wait, do they even have Gondolas in Sicily?

I'm just looking for a yes or no, and I understand that it may or may not have nothing to do with this particular game.

[Whiskers]

Isn't that the boats they do with the canals? That's Venice though, isn't it?

I was thinking bus-driver. I'm just curious.

[Whiskers]

Are You SUUUUUURE?
Oh well.

Anyway, both Friend and Panacea are V/LA, aren't they?

[Whiskers]

Maru, it's not so dangerous that we ned to hunt and kill him or outting PRs.

I'm not really confident in his "VT & VI" claim. He's played a shit ton of games-- more than I have, including my offsite games.
How long have you been a VI?

Substrike22, How many mafia are there in this game?

[Whiskers]

My other good lynch is Tovy, but I don't have a case there, I don't think.

hiplop: I don't fully believe Substrike22's VI claim, either. I'll read up on some of his past games maybe. Also, one bad move or one mistake does not make a player a VI, like you suggest/imply.

As to Scumhunter's posting frequency: I think once about every 48 hours is fine. That's why that rule is there. I'd much rather have a player that posts once every 48 hours than one that has to get prodded, and I'm more likely to go after the latter as scum.

[Whiskers]

SO DAMN CONFUSED.

[Whiskers]

HE said he would yesterday. I assume he thinks it will be useful today?
I'm curious to hear from xvart though-- after that interaction takes place we'll be able to judge more accurately if Maruchan is a big scumbag.

[Whiskers]

I was out trying to kill you.

WHAT A TWIST.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, let me rephrase that;

WHAT A TWIST.
Unvote.
Vote: xvart

[Whiskers]

Maruchan, it's important to jail townies, right? That way, if you Jailkeep a townie and ther is a nightkill, you've got a confirmed townie (assuming 3 scum).

Okay. let me put it this way. If

I

were Maruchan, I'd jailkeep a player who I thought WAS town, but not a powerrole. If I were Hikari Link, I'd Cop Tovarish. If I were a doc, I'd protect Hikari Link.

[Whiskers]

Oh Wait, no. I forgot about Substrike22.

Hm. Well, like I said before, Substrike and Tovarish are my two favorites for scum.

Also, Friend was really hard pushing for a MusicNinja lynch. Friend, what are you? Ofc, if you're a doc or VT, don't claim. Actually, you know what, don't claim anyway. I just want to point out that Friend was pushing hard on MN and I'm wondering why he was so sure-- I'm curious if there was anything besides the big red flsahing lights in the few posts he did make.

[Whiskers]

Okaaaay... then, how do wefigure out what is most likely-- how can we figure out how many scum there are? ;____;

Considering a Mini should have a fairly standard setup (it IS "Normal," after all), what do we go by? 1/4? 1/3? Is it too early to speculate scumteams (with 2 out of possibly four caught)?

[Preedit]
What if YOU are scum? You have us all pretty much convinced, but so does Maruchan.

How about the Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan Jailkeeps you, then YOU investigate somepony else. That way, if YOU get killed, we know Maruchan is scum, if MARUCHAN gets killed, we know there is no Doc, and if there is no kill, then everypony did their jobs.

Also, how about a Maruchan/Hikari Link scumteam? You two are the most greatest posters, both power roles, both outting scum on your first shots and both apparently brilliant. And now bussing.

[Whiskers]

FOR EMPHASIS, So it doesn't get lost:

Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan jailkeeps Hikari Link. Works the same way as Hikari Link's plan, but risks getting himself killed rather than killing Maruchan.

[Whiskers]

FOR EMPHASIS, So it doesn't get lost:

Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan jailkeeps Hikari Link. Works the same way as Hikari Link's plan, but risks getting himself killed rather than killing Maruchan.

I'm confirmed Cop, so this idea is bad.

WTF. Confirmed by whom?

[Whiskers]

Still waiting on that five-minute VCA, Maruchan.

Hikari Link, WHERE were you confirmed to be cop?

[Whiskers]

Monk, you are browsing, lurking. I am officially prodding you, citizen's-arrest style.

Unvote.
Vote: monk

[PreEdit]

._____________________________________________.


...Yeah, okay.
Except for 6, where your breadcrumbing had nothing to do with it.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, [EBWOP]:
Except for 6, where your breadcrumbing had nothing to do with

him

. Regardless of your alignments, you still could have done that.

Yeah, okay. Real cop WOULD have Cced at that point.

[Whiskers]

monk is gone, no longer browsing the thing.

Unvote. Vote: xvart

[Whiskers]

Holy fuck, son. I apparently need to read that guide all the way through. I got a little ways in and got bored, but if it makes you play like this.
Holy fuck.

[PreEdit]
Oh, I thought you were saying you were going to have it /ready/ in five minutes.

[Whiskers]

Luckily for me, I can defend against all the points xvart brought against me.

[Whiskers]

You're right, my bad. I thought I had.

Unvote.
Vote: xvart

.

[Whiskers]

I believe Maruchan. It is possible, but I like You as scum better than I like Maruchan. It was his explanation on your plan that that made me okay with it. It also makes me think he's town-- he's willing to risk himself. That's why I think your plan looks bad, you were trying to kill Maruchan.
[Preedit, may hours later]
Ylou're going to confirm him as town by lynching him?

Look:

Maru, jailkeep Link.
Link, Investigate Maru.
Doc, protect Maru.

This keeps our jailkeeper and our cop alive.


HERE IS MY BIT ON SETUP.
You say JK, Cop, and Doc is unbalanced in favor or town. Why? We also assume that, since there is a Cop, there will be at least one Cop-fucking role, Ie, Godfather, Framer, etc. What's to say there aren't other variants or mafia roles in play? How about a mafia rolecop or roleblocker? It's possible we have a delayed nightkiller, so there was no nightkill, or something else stupid like that.

What I really think though, is that xvart is scum and Maruchan JKed him.

Hikari Link, you look fucking BAAAD right now to me. You seem to want Maruchan to die no matter what. Lynch him over near-conf-scum? Fine with you. Put him in a position where he will without a doubt be nightkilled? Sure!

Look. HEre we are. Lynch xvart. If townflip, then Doc on Hikari Link, JK on Hikari Link. If flip scum, Doc on Maruchan, JK on Hikari Link.

[Whiskers]

In short,
Cop/Doc/Jailkeeper could easily be balanced out by CoolScumRole#1/CoolScumRole#2/CoolScumRole#3.

[Whiskers]

Bobsnox, Mafia Goon, Lynched Day One

Except that bobsnox was a standard Goon, Vanilla Scum.

Still, that doesn't mean that the setup is unbalanced.

PLAYERS: If there are any negative utility roles, like Paranoid Gun Owner or Beloved Princess, you should probably claim so we can work around you. (Any objections to Negative PR claims?)

[Whiskers]

Hm.
Let's let everyone else give their opinions first, I still think it's a good idea, even with that risk.

[preedit]
No, iamusername, because we need Maruchan to jailkeep Link. Why? So that we can confirm Maruchan. We're trading a cop investigation for a confirmed Jailkeeper. That's fucking gold. With that knowledge, it's a town fucking win. You need to stop fighting it. It is necessary that it will happen.

Also, I'll check the blacklist.

[Whiskers]

Mafia Tracker (sees who target visited), Follower (sees action target performed), Roleblocker, Godfather, I think these are all very possible. Framer is also possible, but I don't like it and don't think it would be included-- but that's personal opinion. Aslo, Mafia role-cop comes free with Newbie Meal purchase, why not here?

Also, let's be wary of Millers, as it is as likely there are millers as there are Godfathers.
Macho-variants also possible, but unlikely.

[PreEdit]
iamusername: Both are possible. We have to do the best we can.

However, if MAruchan is a powerrole and scum, we probably have another powerrole, perhaps a doc after all?

iamusername, Maruchan and Hikari Link have too much suspicion on each other. We may as well confirm one. We aren't using the Powers to the best of our ability, but if it will make them both feel more at ease, I say let's go with it. We have at least two out of Some scum. We easily winning. Worst case scenario, we thin the herd a little here. (Actually, worst case scenario JK gets nightkilled and there is no doc.) Best case, a townie gets confirmed. Actually, BEST case, A scum gets confirmed.

That's why you, Hikari Link, need to Cop somepony else. If you don't get roleblocked, (while it's POSSIBLE that Maruchan was roleblocked himself), then you still get a result and we lynch Maruchan. If you get NKed instead, it isn't any worse than if you got NKed and did an investigation on Maruchan. The roleblock will clear Maruchan enough anyway.

If you investigate and

are not roleblocked and do not die

, you get double win (we have your investigation, plus we lynch Maruchan.). if You investigate and

are not roleblocked but do die

, Town gets a single win for lynching Maru. If you investigate but

ARE roleblocked, and do NOT die

, you get a single win and we have cleared Maruchan.

[Whiskers]

It's too bad I suspect him though, so it's pretty likely that I'd investigate him anyway if he wasn't guaranteed to target me..

Right, so investigate somepony else. It can only benefit you.

[Whiskers]

Maruchan has given his word.

You both agree to my plan where Maruchan blocks you, and the Doc protects one of you based on Xvart's flip.
So let's lynch xvart, and move along.

Link, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?
iamusername, you mentioned about it, but didn't answer the question, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?

[Whiskers]

We have a perfect game going, let's not ruin it with hot supertown vs supertown action.

Link, we have the plan to get Maruchan checked out. The only flaw in it is that scum blocker might block him and he'd seem to be scum. He seems to be okay with that.
Move the fuck on. If he's scum, we'll know tonight.
Link who are your other reads?

@Maruchan: V/LA means "Vacation/LimitedAccess". He has Limited Access, which is not no access, and therefore can reply.

@Friend: Since you can reply, Should negative utility roles claim or not?

[Whiskers]

EBWOP:
*hot town-on-town action.
[/fluff]

[Whiskers]

Way to follow-the-cop, Noramp. If we have both a JK AND a cop, obviously, JK should protect cop tonight. Doc protect cop all other times, sure.

Anyway, your first statement is false:

If maru Jked Xvart and xvart isnt scum then

that means mafia didn't send in any NK

which would be really weird but would probably suggest our remaining scum are probably hard lurkers which we don't really have other than Tovarish or we have a doc which seems unlikely at this point.

At least, some of it is. Bolded for emphasis.

No. It means mafia didn't send in any NK, or we have a doc, or xvart really WAS the scum target.
Also, if you believe Link, Maru may not have JKed xvart at all, therefore your scenarios of "No NK, doc, or scum xvart" are all equally unlikely.

[Whiskers]

So, Owlbear, Negative Utility roles: Claim or no?

[Whiskers]

You don't have a scum member guarenteed. That's the problem.

I directed the power roles in such a way that IF you flip town, the possible doc will protect Link. We can not lose our cop if there is a doctor and you flip town. If our cop dies, then we know Maruchan is lying.

Now, I have two big pieces of evidence that make me think you're scum, xvart. The first is that the scum would not NK you. The scum would NK Maruchan. That means either a, Doc, or b, Maruchan blocked the scum doing the NK-- you.
The second is that you immediately gave up an "I was trying to kill you."

The third--! And yeah, I'm adding this in-- is that you say that he was going to try to not claim today. If there was a kill, he STILL would have claimed today, because I would have held him to it. Also, if you look at his breadcrumb, you know what role he was PLANNING on claiming. It's not like his claim depended on the nightkill. Maruchan is fucking town, I'm fucking sure of it. I'm also pretty conf that Link is town.
Monk I'm not so sure of, but MOST IMPORTANTLY, we have a whole plan going on your lynch, xvart. If you are not a vanilla townie then you should obviously claim. I really really hope you are scum though, it will make the game so much easier. If you do flip town, it will cast some serious suspicion/doubt on Maruchan and we will probably end up lynching him. I hope not though, because he's one of our two players. Hikari Link and Maruchan have been playing this game pretty much single-handedly.

monk, Y U so desparate to kill Maruchan?
This fits with Link, who was desparate to get Maruchan killed for a while.

MORE IMPORTANTLY,

monk

earlier you asked why Maru didn't want -PRs to claim. I inferred from this that you do think -PRs should claim. Do you think this? Why?

[Whiskers]

Here's another question, for all you game-balance types (I'm looking at you, x-vart.)

How balanced would it be if it were all vanilla townies and scums, except for one Jailkeeper? Just curious. Would that be unbalanced?

[Whiskers]

I ask mainly because I'm finally /in to Mod.

[Whiskers]

I too have a feeling about monk/Link. If that's the case, monk is blowing it.
monk could be the godfather though, and Link is telling the truth.
Scumhunter, wasn't it you who pointed out that there is probably a godfather (or framer) in the first place?

Anyway, day 1 claimed-cop-who-flipped-to-be-scum lynch made Link pretty much the town hero, he saved the fucking day and scored him an internet full of town credit. Then "investigates" his scumpartner.
Just saying. Still want that xvart lynch today.
Scumhunter, was that hammer?
[Preedit]

Scum would not have no-killed. It's something I would do, but I have never seen a scumteam intentionally no-kill.

I Apparently missed the part why scum would target you for the NK. I understand why Maru would target you today (for the lynch) were he scum-- you're scummy and you're not gonna hurt town too much if you flip VT, and you think he can worm his way out of a lynch tomorrow. That's bullshit, and he said he would not say "Oh, well, he must have been the NK target after all! Derp!" I'm not convinced you WILL flip town.

NEXT!
Yes, I apparently missed that part. I'd appreciate if you'd quote or link it or tell me where in ISO. That was never clear to me.
How are you supposed to breadcrumb actions? I udnerstand like, "Yeah, I'll block someone tonight!" (except that's pretty blatant), but how do you breadcrumb ACTIONS? breadcrumbing is where you kind of give away your role, either with flavour, Or the way Maruchan did.
ALSO, I missed the part where he was trying to save bobsnox. He was trying to lynch bobsnox, last I heard. Well, at least, he was part of the lynching wagon.

NEXT!
I ask because I suspect, for a minute, monk/Link. I mentioned this earlier, in my original post...
So a vanilla+JK game isn't impossible. Considering that we have only one flip (vanilla scum), and only two PR claims, this isn't superdifferent from a "2 of 4" setup, like in the current newbie games.

What's to say that there isn't only a JK, and all vanilla?


FURTHERMORE.
Doc + Cop + JK is unbalanced is scum are all Goons (vanilla scum). You seem to be UNABLE to take into account that if town has lots of fancy powerroles, the scum almost definitely does too? There is at least one Vanilla scum (bobsnox flip) and at leastr one vanilla townie (standard rules of Mini Normal), but the other two (or three!) scum could all be scum PRs.

Doc + Cop + JK isn't super overpowered when the Mafia has roles identical to, more powerful than, or that can defeat, them.

(Example--Doc is overcome by roleblocker, Strongman, or Macho-variant townie roles. Cop is overcome by Framer or Godfather or Janitor or Miller-townie roles. JK is overcome by another roleblocker or Strongman.)
[PREEDIT 2]
Then link posted. I'll read those and post again, this is getting too backed up.

[Whiskers]

What? Goodnight!?

[Whiskers]

Unfortunately I don't right now, sol I'll let you off with just the standard: Should Negative Utility Roles (PGO, Beloved-modifiers) claim now?

[Whiskers]

Disclaimer: This was supposed to be post 899, but my internet got shut off. I'm almost glad you guys didn't do a howle lot while I was away, but then again, I"m a bit pissed off to see that the activity died again and will have to be whipped up. Again.
Anyway, here's that post:
_______________________

Interesting.

[Preedit]
@monk:
Did I say I thought there was a doc? I missed that part. Did I say that? Link thinks there is a doc. Maru thinks there is a doc.

Can the Scum RB not RB

&

Nightkill? Also, why is there "likely a scum RB", all of a sudden? There wasn't before.
Hasn't Maru been pushing for the xvart slot (On Day 1?)? More importantly, Friend (goodtown #1, the original goodtown player (the other two replaced in).) has been pushing for the xvart slot. He should be back from V/LA soon, so I'd reccomend him as a cop-vestigation candidate.

monk, since you're suddenly sure of a Scum roleblocker, what if he roleblocks Maruchan? Then Maruchan can't roleclock Hikari Link, then Hikari Link gets a read, and we lynch Maruchan, Town Jailkeeper.

Look. If you throw a doc into the mix, we DO get info on whether xvart is scum or not, because we're lynching him today. Then we will have that information. YOU, however, are just trying to confuse us. You added in the possiblility of a scum roleblocker (from out of nowhere, so I suspect it's you), so maybe Marucha nnot blocking HikariLink DOESN'T mean he's scum--

Mafia Roleblocker is a much less common role that Doc. Who says there's even a Doc anyway?
Haoala did.

How about you tell us what his coded message meant. Hm?

[Whiskers]

Okay...
Still bugs me that you go, "If xvart flips scum, I'll agree and say Maruchan is probably town! But if stuff doesn't work out in the night, He's scum!"
Yeah, I guess that was the plan. But you JUST SAID that you'd not be so suspicious if xvart flipped scum.

Anyway, w/e. Right now I want to move on to the night phase, and then to the next day phase, because I"m getting all kinds of confused and we're talking about what will happen later like it already has. Let's start the plan into action and talk about what will happen tomorrow tomorrow.

[Whiskers]

Yeah.

However, monk seems to think there likely

IS

a mafia roleblocker.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, let me rephrase that:

However, monk seems to think there likely

IS

a mafia roleblocker, and he is "confirmed" town.
I'd say monk for Godfather.

Hm, Hikari (Link),, I thought of something. If I were a one-shot day-vig, whose kill didn't end the day, would you have me kill Maruchan?

[Whiskers]

Noramp is the scummiest.

Um, I'm gonna look and see how many votes, don't want to LYNCH him just yet.

[Whiskers]

Okay, nevermind-- two votes, both of them on this page. x_____x

I'll have to read Day 1 stuff before I'll be able to make myself suspicious enough to vote somepony.
Day 1, because Day 2 was kind of a Charlie-Fox.

[Whiskers]

Oh man, Whiskers messed up on the CF! Gotta be scum! Get 'em!

But I think I'll click a page of Day 1 at random, start reading there. also have a look at ISOs, mostly noramp's.

[Whiskers]

Forgive me my laziness-- I don't intend to reread the whole game.

[Whiskers]

iso # 33. Votes bobsnox but hedges his bets.

Then his last 3 iso posts ( #36, #37, & #38. )
Votes Xvart "I feel bad for him though".
Unvotes Xvart "Barring his confession maru does Not have a confirmed scum"
Says we should lynch Xvart but does not revote.

But more importantly than that, I remembered my OTHER favorite suspect, SUBSTRIKE22!!!!
Of course, upon looking, there's nothing NEW on Substrike.

Does Substrike22 have a prod out righ tnow? Does he need one yet?

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, I apologize for revisiting an old topic, but Yesterday (or maybe it was D1? So much Night lately, lol) I mentioned that I felt that the relationship between you and Maruchan was suspect, and the possibility that one of you was scum buddying the other. Well. Now Maruchan is conftown. Am I right to be suspicious of you in that respect?

Suspicious that I was buddying him? sure. Suspicious that I was scum doing so? no. I was in defense of Maruchan because I was confident (at least, by the time Link started trying to kill him) that he was town.

[Whiskers]

Hi, I'd like a perfect win please.
Still, we already got Maruchan killed...

So rather than risk it on noramp, We're gonna

Vote: Panacea

!

[Whiskers]

so, Noramp is not listed as voting or as "Not Voting," but xvart (dead) is listed as "Not Voting."

Just wanted to point out, if I could help.

My bad.

[Whiskers]

Do we even bother for a Panacea claim or do we just mechanically lynch until we win?

[Whiskers]

Vote: Noramp.

[Whiskers]

(However, I secretly hope the scum is substrike22)

How do you guys like my new avatar?

[Whiskers]

Ah, sorry, I forgot about the Tracker claim too.

Just a question though, did you track scumhunter the OTHER night, too? I want your list of tracks!

Unvote.
Vote: Whiskers

I think now is one of those times where it's okay to hammer/vote for meself?

[Whiskers]

Wait. Wait wait wait wait. Who the hell is MAxous, and who is he replacing?

Also, I too must congratulate monk on his triumphant new avatar. Link, why don't YOU have a fluttershy avatar? Oh, you're dead-- I'll save it for the afterlife QT.