Double Vote Mafia -Mini 1239- Over

[AurorusVox]

/confirm

[AurorusVox]

Only five confirmations in a 13p game? Doubtful.

Also this isn't Central Park >_>"

[AurorusVox]

Derp 9:3 >_>

[AurorusVox]

role pms

You are a Townie, and you've got no special powers at Night. No investigations, no protection, no gun to shoot people. Your only powers are the ability to post, vote (twice!), and think.

[...]

This game will be held in Central Park

, and here is a link to the game.

[AurorusVox]

I agree with this notion.
Are we just gonna crack on or wait for mod confirmation of the gamestart?

[AurorusVox]

Also I advise you to read the rules, particularly the game specific ones.

game specific rules

1. This is Double Vote Mafia: If you vote you

must vote two different people

. To reiterate you may either not vote anyone, or have a vote on two people, but you can't have just one vote on just one person.

[AurorusVox]

Are we just gonna crack on or wait for mod confirmation of the gamestart?

[AurorusVox]

I have a question for you kj: will you bus your scumbuddies D1, since we already know you're scum?

[AurorusVox]

Vote: nintendoaddict1
Vote: killerjester

[AurorusVox]

@nintendo, not that I'm particularly upset, but what happened to your ad hom argument?

Unvote: killerjester
Vote: Hiraki

[AurorusVox]

nintendoaddict is scum for having a legitimate reason to vote killerjester pre-confirmation and then dropping it to RVS.

Obv. either killerjester is scum and this was done as light bussing before the votes counted: or killerjester was mislynch material and nintendoaddict forgot to follow through.
Despite the fact I dislike Hiraki stating his intent to lurk, I actually feel the scenario with kjscum is more likely, esp. given hiphop's points against him.

Unvote: Hiraki;
Vote: killerjester

@mod: Just had a thought. You say we have to cast both votes at the same time, but if we're unvoting one person to vote another, do we also need to re-vote the person we wish to remain voting? So in the above example, do I also need to re-vote nintendoaddict?

[AurorusVox]

Derp kj asked the same question as me. That's what I get for playing at the edges of sleep >_>

[AurorusVox]

Also, AV is acting scummy, why?

Why aren't you voting me then?

Unvote; killerjester
Vote: Whiskers

---

@KJ: At first I thought you bringing attention to nintendoaddict's dropping of his ad hom argument was pro-town, and I despised Hiraki asking to lurk, so that motivated the change from you to him. Then I thought about it some more and figured it made more sense for nintendoscum to vote you before confirmations but not afterwards if you were his scumbuddy rather than if you were town and he was scum. It makes no sense if he's town, hence why my vote has remained there permanentely.

Now before you ask "Why did you unvote me?" in regards to the above, it's because I have already found the three-strong scumteam: killerjester, whiskers, nintendoaddict. I dislike FoSes so where I have two votes, I am happy to use my second one to indicate that I find a particular vote incredibly scummy. The most recent scummy post is Whisker's, but I'm still open to your lynch today.

Have at it.

[AurorusVox]

Are you whiskers?

[AurorusVox]

I voted Hiraki because he said he wouldn't talk much.
Upon further reflection, you were the better place for my vote given nintendoaddict's odd behaviour.
There's nothing more to it than that.

[AurorusVox]

It would be crap if I couldn't explain it.
But I did explain it.

Why would nintendoaddict NOT vote you after confirmations if you were town?
Because (a) he's scum, and (b) you're scum.

[AurorusVox]

You said Whisper's lack of AV vote was scummy, given that he has a reason to vote me but doesn't.
This is the same situation as nintendoaddict for not voting you.

You said Whisper didn't want to bus.
OH HERP DERP DOESN'T THAT MEAN NINTENDOADDICT DOESN'T WANT TO BUS YOU?

[AurorusVox]

Oh lord we're only on page two and there's ad hom...

vote killerjester

^ OH HEY! A VOTE! I mean SURE it didn't count since it was pregame but at least he VOTED me when he thought I was scummy.

The fact he placed it pre-game but not after the game had begun actually damns you more.
He had declared an intent to vote you but never followed through on it.
Why? Town should lynch the people they find scummy. Therefore, he is not scum.

Why would scum not follow through on a justified vote against a townie? Esp. if other people had indicated support?
Because it's on their scumbumbuddy. Therefore, you are scum.

Whisker is independently scummy of you two. Doublevotes are awesome as we can explore two avenues at once.
D-d-d-d-d-doublevote!

[AurorusVox]

Why aren't you voting me then?

I'm not allowed to have a joke vote?

Given your previous RV on me, can you see where I got confused? =3

[AurorusVox]

*I obviously meant to call him "not town"

I thought you were using ad hom as a scumtell?

[AurorusVox]

Hiphop is obvTown so whoever was asking what my thoughts on Hiphop x KJ as a scumteam, I don't buy it.

On the other hand, KJ using a shitty tell that he himself didn't believe in at the start of the game to appear to be "scumhunting" and not randomly voting during RVS is bull. Hence, he's scum.

Nintendo not following up on his logic for voting KJ has no pro-town motivation. Hence, he's scum.

Whisker thinking I'm scummy but not voting for me also has no pro-town motivation. Hence, he's scum.

This game was won during the RVS. If you want someone to sheep, sheep me.

[AurorusVox]

You used it to appear you were scumhunting. The very concept of false appearances is that they attempt to cover up something else, usually something you don't want other people to know. Like the fact that you're scum.

[AurorusVox]

Because it's not RVS, it's a vote with a motivation behind it. Therefore you're looking like you're doing something "better" than RVS, whether its true or not.
Why did you want to try it if you don't believe it's a reliable tell?

[AurorusVox]

Voided goes from agreeing with all my posts to having me as scummiest excluding SuperLurker Hiraki despite most other players in the game lurking too

Whee~

Are you scum or a blind townie?

[AurorusVox]

url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3434215]86[/url]: In regards to the 2nd part (your reply to 71), I can see where you could find it oppurtunistic. You sure it couldn't just be the timing rather than any sense of "hey, look, he's an easy wagon again!"?

98: Okay, now the insistence of Nin being scum is starting to get rediculous. KJ's post right after gives plenty of explanations as to why he didn't follow up, and it makes you look rather silly, to be frank.

So you've gone from the point of view that nintendo is scum in the first one, to "NinScum is ridiculous" in the second?
Err?

Damn too many scummy players in this game.

KJ, maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe its Whiskers-Nintendo-Voided. When I read these posts I realise I must have been wrong about

someone

anyway >_>"

[AurorusVox]

@Mod: Quote url tag fail, can you please add that super "[" to the start? <333

[AurorusVox]

FUCKING IRONY

[AurorusVox]

So, in the first you're defending me by saying it could just be timing rather than opportunistic...then in the second you say I'm being ridiculous?
That's even worse.

[AurorusVox]

FJDIGFHDSIUGFS

I have provided reasons for all of my votes.
Just because you're too stubborn to admit I've caught your buddies is NOT MY PROBLEM.

[AurorusVox]

ALNARA LIVES UP TO HIS AVATAR AND PROVES

HIMSELF

THEMSELVES (?) MY FAVOURITE

CHARACTER

PLAYER IN THE

BOOK

GAME SO FAR

@Voided, why do you need to catch up already?
Is it just an excuse to stay behind current happenings and comment on everything AFTER everyone else?

KILLER I THINK YOU MIGHT BE TOWN GIVEN THE TRAGEDY THAT IS VOIDEDMAFIA
NGDHGFD
LET ME THINK ON THIS SOME MORE

[AurorusVox]

Voided goes from agreeing with all my posts to having me as scummiest excluding SuperLurker Hiraki despite most other players in the game lurking too

Whee~

Are you scum or a blind townie?

So, in the first you're defending me by saying it could just be timing rather than opportunistic...then in the second you say I'm being ridiculous?
That's even worse.

@Voided, why do you need to catch up already?
Is it just an excuse to stay behind current happenings and comment on everything AFTER everyone else?

[AurorusVox]

(sorry that's three, I got over-excited)

[AurorusVox]

(1)
So you agreed with my posts when you were caught up
Then found the need to delay commenting on anything current to go back and re-read
And seeing that I was a popular mislynch wagon, decided to hitch a ride on it?

Okay mate.

RE: Hiraki, "Oh no that was on page 4!" -- see, you're already doing what I'm accusing you of - remaining caught up in past pages to keep your bad reads in place.

---

(2)
You asked if it couldn't just be the timing, rather than being opportunistic. That means, "could it not be a bad looking town, rather than a bad looking scum" - but then you argue for me being scum. I'm not misrepping, I'm stating what you were arguing and it's plain as day that you can't make your mind up whether to go against me or not. Maybe you thought the rest of town would be blind enough to follow you whilst you pushed my mislynch wagon? Sorry bud, but you tipped your hand too much.

---

(3)
Your reason was...you had to re-read to find me scummy?
That makes no sense. That must mean something made you "realise" and go back and re-read those posts. How convenient that you're now reading them in a new light that allows you to say I'm scum. What was it that made you need to go back and re-read? The fact my wagon looked attractive to you? You thought just hopping on would show you for the scum you are so you've had to go back and carve out a contrived response to all of my previous posts, posts that you agreed with at an earlier point?

---

Unvote: NintendoAddict
Vote: VoidedMafia

Let's go.

[AurorusVox]

Whiskers, maybe you'll answer my questions:
"Is English your native language?"
"Why won't you answer the simple question NS put to you?"
"How did you feel when you drew a scum role?"
"Do you have any comment about my vote for you and/or its implications?"

@Voided, the support was in me saying I agreed. Yes it's not a huge wagon but it implies that he's onto something and his ideas could pick up with other people as the game goes on.

[AurorusVox]

Whee, I want a 1 for 1 here. We can double hammer once so lynch me AND either Whiskers or Voided.
Let's do it.

[AurorusVox]

2. Double votes means potential double hammers! But to avoid too much swinginess only the first double-hammer will be counted.

Read the rules.
There are.

[AurorusVox]

I wouldn't mind having nintendo as the second lynch along with myself. His response tells me that at least one of Whiskers or Voided is a scumbuddy ("Oh noes just lynch AV not one of THEM we can't actually do it anyway /distraction tactics!")

[AurorusVox]

Mod: Can we get a votecount, please?

Oh I think I'm at L-1 for some reason. Just a heads up before "lolaccidental hammer"

[AurorusVox]

Nintendo is flailing about the double lynch today, so one of those players is his scumbuddy because he doesn't want us to lynch (at least) one of them.

I will place my votes on two of {Nintendo, Whiskers, VoidedMafia}
If you guys want my death to get these guys then go ahead. A 1 for 3 trade is excellent for town.
Otherwise, I'm more than happy to help orchestrate a double lynch on two of them.

It's up to y'all.

[AurorusVox]

Yeah Nintendo is scum with Whiskers.
Voided is the third buddy.

This is brilliant.

[AurorusVox]

Nope. You're scum for plenty of reasons.
The fact that you were so adamantly denying that we had a double lynch despite the evidence against your reading suggests you were trying to mislead.
Whiskers "coming to your rescue" exacerbates this connection.

Whisker's railing against it is hilarious. For towns 1v1s are a great deal. But ofc he knows he's flipping scum so he's against it. What a surprise. If he really thought I was scum he'd be happy to make the exchange.

[AurorusVox]

But you were still going on about if even after I'd pointed it out to you.
That's not misreading it once and admitting your mistake.
That's denying the evidence and trying to misdirect everyone else.

[AurorusVox]

Thoughts on a double hammer today? Two of: {Me/Whiskers/Voided}?

[AurorusVox]

When I flip town, will you double lynch Whiskers and Voided/Nintendo for me, then?

[AurorusVox]

I am town. You're scum. That's why I'd sacrifice myself to ensure you get lynched.

You should already be supporting my lynch since you think I'm scum.
Why are you talking about town on town now?

[AurorusVox]

So why are you trying to make it look like you're only just starting to support it in #272, with "I

will

upport your lynch"?

[AurorusVox]

And 1v1s are great for town because there are less scum than town.

[AurorusVox]

Voided, you're right, I'm been playing the paragon of townie that I can play when I'm scum.
I historically suck as town and doing overthoughtful analysis and long intricate posts never got me anywhere, so I'm trying a more rough and tumble approach that I think is proving successful (obv I can't tell yet since none of you have flipped yet).
This is one of the first games I'm trying this new playstyle in so I expect it will have unwanted side affects like, making me look scummy. But if I'm right (like I think I am) and the scum start rolling over, one after another, I'll be vindicated in the end. It's a shame I've started looking scummy today or else I might have not had to sacrifice myself to get you all lynched :\

[AurorusVox]

*first line should have read; "I'm not playing"

[AurorusVox]

@Voided - Do you want me to self meta? What do I need to respond to, I probably ignored it because it was scummy etc

@Whiskers - My scumread on you is based mostly on the post in which you called me scummy but didn't vote me, and instead placed two RVSs. I'll give you something more if you want but I don't have time atm (just started teacher training yesterday and they're already piling it on)

[AurorusVox]

Yeah less sold on uScum than Nin and Whiskers but I'll need to re-read to see if its just because you've been good recently against a shifty opening. Perchance there was some OMGUS thrown in by accident.

Nin made it look like he had a good reason to vote for KJ in pre-game. He even placed a vote before we were allowed, that's how much he wanted to look useful.
I say "look useful" rather than "be useful" because when the game started, he never put his vote down on KJ.
Why not? I can't see ANY reason for town to do that. If he's found something scummy, vote it (same as Whiskers). If he's not, then WHY was he voting with reasons at the start? I don't really know what ad hom means but I assume it's something to do with KJ's scummy behaviour regarding hiphop in pre-game. In effect, it's as though he's saying KJ was scummy pre-game but not worthy of a vote when the game actually got going. It doesn't make sense from town. At all.

My point against Whiskers is a very valid one. Why wouldn't town vote their scum read?

[AurorusVox]

Why don't you like ad hom?

[AurorusVox]

Is his definition of ad hom wrong then?

Anyway, if you've voted someone for doing something you dislike, the vote is no longer random.

[AurorusVox]

You said pictures delay the game.
Delaying the game from progressing benefits scum.

[AurorusVox]

?
You voted.
You sure as hell were acting as though the game had started.

[AurorusVox]

You're using the fact the game hadn't started to defend against my point.
So it does matter.

You can't delay something that hasn't started.

I hope people are beginning to see why Nintendo is scum.

[AurorusVox]

You're using the fact the game hadn't started to defend against my point.
So it does matter.

You can't delay something that hasn't started.

I hope people are beginning to see why Nintendo is scum.

I said that about ad hom delaying the game. That has nothing to do with me voting before the game started. Those are two completely different subjects. Quit misrepping and start scumhunting.

AND YOU SAID THAT AD HOM WAS USING PICTURES

CHRIST PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS SCUMBAG SQUIRM

"Ad hom = posting pictures"
"Posting pictures delays the game"
"Quit misrepping, I didn't mean that posting pictures delayed the game I meant that ad hom delays the game"

ITS SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

[AurorusVox]

NINTENDO

You voted him for ad hom.
You don't like ad hombecause it delays the game.
Delaying the game is anti-town / pro-scum.
Therefore it is not RVS.

You said you can't delay the game if it hasn't started.
Firstly, this contradicts you saying you don't like ad hom delaying the game, considering you voted KJ because of ad hom.
Secondly, you voted for a non RVS reason (as I have explained above) so you're acting as though it has started.

You voted because of ad hom = posting pictures.
You SAID these delayed the game.
THEREFORE YOU'RE VOTING BECAUSE OF DELAYING THE GAME
THEREFORE YOU'RE VOTING BECAUSE OF DELAYING THE GAME (REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE GAME HAS "STARTED")

THEREFORE
YOU SAYING I'M MISREPPING THIS IS ACTUALLY BULLSHIT

And you're scum.

Whiskers harping on the side just makes him your obvBuddy, you guys need to practice bussing more.

[AurorusVox]

That is bollocks.
Explain that to me.

[AurorusVox]

How can a REASONED VOTE be random just because the game hadn't started? You don't even engage with the issue that he was acting as though the game had started by placing votes (and votes with reasons!)

[AurorusVox]

His reason was that ad hom (as he understood it) delayed the game. Delaying the game favours scum. Therefore, using ad hom as a reason to vote for someone is voting for someone for being scummy and IS NOT a random vote.
It was before confirmations but not before we had our role PMs what are you even smoking?

Why wasn't it serious? It was motivated in "catching scum" - except, ofc, I'm saying it wasn't, it was motivated ONLY TO APPEAR as such.

[AurorusVox]

So is delaying the game not a serious matter?

[AurorusVox]

So you think Whiskers wasn't bussing me until I pulled him up on his lack of vote for me?

[AurorusVox]

So would you support the double lynch I proposed on us both earlier?

And it's not me who's delaying this, believe you me. I've explained my position but Whiskers and Nintendo scumbuddies are trying to deflect by pretending it's not a relevant case, when it really is.

[AurorusVox]

Am I still voting Voided? :S

Unvote: Voided,
Vote: nintendoaddict

[AurorusVox]

It's pretty obvious that one of us is scum and one of us is town.
So really we both should swing today.

I'm town so it's better for us if just you and your buddy Nintendo are lynched but a 1 for 1 is still good enough for me.

[AurorusVox]

Christine, there's no way you think they're scum together.

Have you never heard of a Gambit? If they are both scum, then they make this big deal against each other. One of them flips scum, then the other rights to End Game being cleared for tracking down scum. Seen it happen far too many times to not be suspicious of it.

Because that thinking totally works when I'm trying to push for us both to be lynched at the same time

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
1v1s are good for town
There are MORE TOWN THAN SCUM
If every town one for one traded to kill a scum
TOWN WOULD WIN

[AurorusVox]

Also, I made the point where you, AVox, a scum in danger of being lynched, would prefer a "1-for-1" double-lynch to a scum single-lynch.

If I was scum in danger I would be doing my hardest to NOT get lynched, not offering my neck.

[AurorusVox]

O_O"

Isn't the conflict between me and Whiskers?

[AurorusVox]

I'm almost tempted to self vote to get this game beyond the pitiful grinding halt that has occurred.
Obv I won't do that but come on guys.
We've rehashed Vox versus whoever a whole bunch of times.

I want more input from basically half the game.
We have two votes - why does this mean people are using this as an excuse to lollurk and not really commit to reads? It should be the OPPOSITE.

[AurorusVox]

So can I get some clarity here?
Voided, you think me and Nin are cross-bussing; and Friend Marisil, you think me and Whiskers are cross-bussing?#

[AurorusVox]

?

I don't really understand your distinction.
If I'm bussing Nin, he'd -have- to be crossbussing me.

---

@Friend: how do you think one of me or Whiskers is scum if you can't get a read on us? Are you planning on doing nothing productive until D2?

[AurorusVox]

VT.
Rainbowdash is town.
Um.

NS is probably scum for telling everyone to only claim VT.

That's about it. I don't have much time.

Top scumpick is Nin/Whiskers. I see no value in distinguishing between the two when they're both hella scummy and their scumminess implies each other as buddies. NS has kinda blown his cover by trashing Dash's gambit so he's a relatively new but fairly interesting/strongish scumread.

Popcorn to Alnara. Lol ARE YOU EVEN IN THIS GAME?

[AurorusVox]

I don't even know what to say, Dash... that gambit to catch careless scum only makes you look bad. And by bad I mean scummy.

Why does it make him look scummy?

But not scummy enough to vote her?

Is NS driving a coach or a bus here?

Ever heard of Town verses Town?

You obviously agree me, cf. your vote on me. Why are you scolding him for not thinking of TvT when you yourself don't think its true?

Can you show me where I said that?

I mean, seriously, you're gonna get 12 claims of VT. And then wherre will be be? It's not like there ARE any other roles aside from VT and Goon.

Did you even read the setup?

Top vote would be Whiskers I guess.

[AurorusVox]

...you saying "there are only VTs in this setup", "look at the setup" and actually QUOTING the setup basically made the whole massclaim thing scumfriendly. It was not a pro-town move. At all.

[AurorusVox]

I think town would not lie about being VTs so they were never going to be "misled".
The only people who had something to fear from the MC was scum.

[AurorusVox]

That doesn't cut it.

[AurorusVox]

Friend - who would your vote go to NOW? Why are you beating around the bush?

You multiquote by clicking the Q+ button for all the quotes you want, then hit "quote" on the final post you want to quote. They should all appear neatly lined up for you.

[AurorusVox]

Ninja'd by NS...we were thinking the exact same thing.

@WHISKERS
You still seem to think there's a cop.
Are you just pretending to be dense?

[AurorusVox]

How so? I've been willing to double lynch my scumreads along with myself. At least that way I get to take one of you down with me. vOv

Nintendo should be today's lynch. Whether that's with or without me going down too.

[AurorusVox]

RainbowDash is town.
Whiskers I can be sold on, obv.
But Nintendo is scummier by a smidgen so.

[AurorusVox]

I meant to say my top vote was Nin earlier, btw >_>

[AurorusVox]

Nintendo, I explicitly say that if your lynch requires me to go down too, I'd be happy to oblige.
The fact that we haven't had a rush of people to push a double lynch tells me something very important (Whiskers, you'll want to pick your ears up for this too)

It tells me that we're

not both town

.

If we were both town, you can DAMN SURE GUARANTEE that scum would have subtly pushed support for a double mislynch. But the support hasn't been there. Because this isn't TvT.

[AurorusVox]

Asking permission for a hammer is scummy.
Luckily for you, Nintendo is scummier.

====[]

[AurorusVox]

Self hammering, what a sport

[AurorusVox]

I feel pretty.

More thoughts when I get home later tonight.

[AurorusVox]

Pretty clear Rainbowdash is town.

Vote: FM
Vote: NS

I can sheep this.
Also, still looking at potential WhiskersScum. I seem to recall that I had strong reasons for suspecting they were partners yesterday and when I get some time I'll remember why that was.

[AurorusVox]

Okay, going back over my own ISO (lol ego) I see that Whiskers was defending Nin, and Nin wasn't letting us double lynch me and Whiskers, as well as Whiskers' original scumminess. I need someone to sum up why Whiskers is town because I'm not sure I buy that really...

[AurorusVox]

I don't understand why you're unvoting Friend rather than Robotnick.

[AurorusVox]

Whiskers: the point of your original scumminess was the fact that you said I was scummy but then voted elsewhere. That's basically it. The rest is all associative tells with Nintendo. Then again my ISO isn't forthcoming on detail it seems, so I may have to re-read you both. All I know is that in the back of my mind is a little lemon screaming "WHISKERS IS SCUM WITH NINTENDO"

[AurorusVox]

Nopony Special! Why are you changing your votes around so much?
Unvote: ...Idr.

Vote: Nobody Special
Vote: Killer Jester

1: For lurking and changing votes without explanation.
2: Same reasons as before.
Also, AV is acting scummy, why?

This was the post in question.
TBH you said it's because you found the others scummier. I was probably just getting tunnelled in on the part about me being scummy but you not voting me without actually reading the rest of the post.

Happy with my votes where they are until I can be bothered to re-read Whiskers/Nin interactions.

[AurorusVox]

Ninja'd by your explanation.
I reached the same conclusion independently.

[AurorusVox]

Who was it who thought Rainbowdash was scum?

Whoever it is, you're an idiot.
This is most definitely a town post.

[AurorusVox]

Unvote NS

Not sure where to put this vote yet...

[AurorusVox]

The pair that includes you?

[AurorusVox]

I'm asking you to clarify which pair. The last two have been you and someone else.

[AurorusVox]

So you have nothing to say to the people who responded to your incredibly lazy post where you voted me?

Vote: Hiraki

[AurorusVox]

I feel you should engage with peoples' responses to your question rather than apathetically allowing the game to pass you by.
Otherwise what was the point in asking the question, except to look like you're scumhunting when you're not really?

Added to this, town would recognise the shift in game-state as new information comes to light.
Scum already knew everything from the beginning, and so have little real reason to change their reads as the game progresses.
It's only the appearance of change that they must mimic.

Mimic/appearance concerns matches exactly what you've displayed with your lack of follow up to your question.

[AurorusVox]

?

Two tells:

(1) Only trying to look like you're scumhunting rather than actually doing it, suggested by you not following up on questions
(2) Not altering your perspective based on new information, suggesting you knew everything from the start already

Please explain what's "weird" or "fragile" about either of those tells?

[AurorusVox]

1) But scumhunting is.
2) Yes, a scumflip.

[AurorusVox]

How is not following up on your OWN questions scumhunting? It's not just an absence of scumhunting, it's the OPPOSITE.
Let's try this a different way. What was the purpose of you inviting other players to clarify their AVTown reads?

And the interactions of other players re: nintendo is one place to start reassessing your reads. Even if you think he's so mysterious that he gives nothing away as scum (clearly a fallacy since he was lynched D1 due to his suspect behaviour) then that same "invisibility" will not extend to every other potential scumbuddy here.

This is lazy, lazy, scummy, scummy posting by you Hiraki.
I am disappoint.

[AurorusVox]

I don't see how AV is in this "all-mighty town group"(intense exaggeration required)

"I don't see" = "I don't understand" = "Please help me to understand"

[AurorusVox]

You're content to remain in a state of not understanding?

[AurorusVox]

Scum.

[AurorusVox]

@Rainbow, I tried to unvote and revote Hiraki but it didn't get counted (see latest VC)

Unvote: Nobody Special;
Vote: Hiraki

(I'll get to reading the rest in a mo, just wanted to make sure this was posted before I get started as I've got limited time)

[AurorusVox]

@everypony - Pro or con using the double lynch today? If con why? If pro who should we double lynch?

Pro. I've been pro using it since D1. I'm kinda down for using it in a "One of these two are going to flip scum" situation a'la yesterday to ensure we don't get a double mislynch, but I think that's also courting the potential of TvT so I'm also happy to use it to remove two independently scummy players (Friend and Hiraki at this point)

---

I still don't like Whiskers: if Hiraki flips scum at this point, I'll like him even less, given his jump off the wagon and his comment about setting up mislynches - it actually makes it sound as though Whiskers himself knows Hiraki is flipping scum.

Please explain why you have reservations about Hiraki and how other people are pushing his lynch?
He's being an asshole, sure, but that doesn't make the scumtell people (including, presumably, you) have found any less real.
There are scumtells there, and if being an asshole negated those, we'd see a lot more gaping assholes on the site.

---

@Rainbow - I'm pro-double lynch, and my lynch partners would be Hiraki/Friend. If they both flipped scum, I would then vote for a NS lynch tomorrow, as I feel he's the only other candidate for scum.

I read this as an honest townslip.

[AurorusVox]

But more pertinant to the game, what's the scumtell you have on Hiraki?

Do you not read?

[AurorusVox]

I've seen this done, it's possible. You don't have to ask questions to get reads.

Of course not, but when you make a point that generates a response, logic says that you NEED to follow up on it otherwise what was the point in seeking a response? If you just ignore a response then why bother looking for one in the first place?

What... does nintendo's mysteriousness have to do with Hiraki's play? The invisibility Hiraki has is from his own, consistently scummy play.

He is saying that his reads have no need to change because Nintendo gave nothing away. Which I think is just him being lazyScum not updating his reads since Nintendo obviously had to give stuff away or else why would we have caught and lynched him?

[AurorusVox]

you're really scum.

[AurorusVox]

I have no idea what the first line means, so I dunno what to do here.

oh well.

[AurorusVox]

I think that puts them both at L-2. Someone needs to make sure they're both at L-1 when we're ready, and we'll have Rainbowdash hammer. Anyone tossing our double lynch out of the window by "accidentally" hammering will be lynched on sight tomorrow.

[AurorusVox]

Oh yeah, that's why I said when we're ready. No need to rush into things.

[AurorusVox]

Vitriolic defence of an alternative playstyle in an attempt to deflect from the deficiencies in your analysis?
Check.

I don't have an issue with Hiraki's "playstyle" per se - I've spoken of VIs as simply "different" players rather than "bad" players before, and I myself am experimenting with alternative ways to play - but

beyond

that there is a larger issue at hand. It doesn't matter HOW you get your scumreads - whether its through questions or not - but if there is an issue where you're unclear on something and you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears than communicate with others about it, especially when it regards a scumread, that's just plain scummy.

This is kinda similar to the fact that you're not willing to develop your scumreads beyond your initial reads on D1, despite everything else that has happened. It's a kind of tunnelling, actually. As the game progresses, circumstances change and that should result in dynamic reads. But your reads are

incredibly

static. Since scum know everything from the start of the game, they would have static reads that they must try to mask as dynamic. In this respect, you have failed.