Open 334: Friends and Enemies in Icetown (Town Win)

[IceGuy]

Lupus Vega replaces lane0168. Thanks!

Maruchan is being replaced.

[Lupus Vega]

Hokay. I'll read and give my opinions. Thank god it's only 16 pages.

[Lupus Vega]

Ok, this is my first game as replacement, and I'm going to try this method of reviewing the game, one: to keep my thoughts in order, and b: because it's only 16 pages, and therefore easy to do. I'll make four posts, one for each four pages.

FOSing me for starting a wagon is conjuring up an after the fact basis for suspicion on me, as when my vote was first out there, a bandwagon was nonexistant. Besides that, bandwagoning in itself isn't scummy anyway.

VOTE: princess because I'm too lazy to read anything she says

This on the other hand is a poorly reasoned vote. Weren't you saying she looked town in your last post? Now you vote her because you can't be bothered to read her post?

Unvote: Vote: Paraffin

(L-2)

Also Jason tends to sheep votes I cast when I start wagons. It's something he tends to do as town, and something I don't actually see when he's scum... so yeah.

I don't like the look of this vote, and so far it's the only vote on the Paraffin wagon that caught my eye (apart from Smear's, but he's dead and town). It doesn't add a lot to the conversation, you're basically paraphrasing what others have said. Also, the bit about Jason sounds odd...almost like you're excusing him if he does it later in the game.

Paraffin needs to return and explain himself, I seem to remember him being a D1 lynch for this exact behaviour, however. I'm leaning Town on him currently.
.
A dayvig shot from me (at that point) would be aimed at Smear or Zach.

1) Can you link this game please
2 I don't like the dayvig comment on Zach, I have noticed when Zach is town, He is always one of the first to be eliminated from the game by scum due to his experience.

I'm not sure what the reason for saying 2) is, because to me it doesn't seem like it has anything to do with dayvigging Zach. However, I also can't see a scum motivation for saying it, so...hm.

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

He hasn't explained it yet where I'm up to, but that may change. If he hasn't, though. I'm not sure about this.

[Lupus Vega]

Ok, onto days 4-8. Man, there are a bunch of replacements in this game...

Hello guys, here goes semi-catchup post.

I'll go ahead and ask my questions for Mal:
1. How many games are you currently playing at this point?
2. What are your views on the game so far? What do you think about the paraffin wagon and attacks directed towards the players on it, and myself?
3. Who do you think is scummy and why?
4. Can you provide any cases on who you believe is scummy, or at least pull up quotes that seems suspicious?

That should be plenty enough information to get you started, or to at least make it to where you can't say you don't have anything to say.

1. Currently I'm on 4 games, including this one, two minis and a large.

2. First off all, the paraffin wagon seemed legitimate to me. He made a few (IMO) scumslips. I would have voted him if I was here that time. There is no way someone being on paraffin's wagon to be a scumtell.

3. Praffin is scummy for [insert quote featuring over-and-over repeated (correct) argument]. I have town reads on kiwi and zack so far. Everything else is blurry, but for some reason I have kind of a gut scum-read on Smear.

4. I can pull up quotes. Is it really necessary?

I don't like gut scum reads. Also, he jumped on the Paraffin bandwagon without even attempting to disguise the fact he had nothing to add. Why did he have a town read on Zach? And why hasn't he unvoted himself yet? I'm not liking Malpascp at the moment.

I see where you are coming from, but the fact that we were using the same attack isn't a point against us, more than it is a point

for

the attack. Obviously it had merit if both of us thought it was worth pursuing.

I disagree with this point: if two people use exactly the same argument, it means there aren't enough arguments for one person being scum.

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase. Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

Bleh, mission aborted on pg5, no matter how many times I come to it I can't get through those walls. Here what I picked up.

Ok, Kiwi isn't as town as she initially appears, Jason, smear and Zach seem to be in a league with each other, scum or mason (or even just RL mates), I have yet to discern which.

Zach and Jason are showing signs of outside information, its really pisses me off when people do stuff like "I'm doing this for this reason which we can't say because it breaks other games rules" - If I was modding this game you would've been force replaced or maybe even modkilled (Yes I have a specific rule against outside information - AntB/Set-Ups#Standard_Rules if you don't believe me).

Paraffin and ThAdmiral are solo town (and I just noticed paraffin voted me back on pg4).

I'll get more when I can.

Personally, I think it was and is a bad idea to theorise on who are the masons - if Jason and Zach aren't scum, it would be easy for scum to read this post and decide to kill one of them. Also, saying "x and y are town" without offering proof isn't anywhere near helpful.

Sorry again guys. I was leaning to a paraffin lynch today, but I don't see how that's possible now. Smear is a good alternative.
I don't usually make big re-read posts, but I think I can handle one in this game.

Obviously he couldn't, since one has yet to appear.

Just looking through the vote counts, and it shows that Smear has been on every major wagon, hell, he even jumped on my wagon when he didn't even know what it meant. If you look through every vote count, he has started one vote count which he abandoned quickly.

I'm looking to vote, but I'm not planning on it till close to the deadline.

The Descent wagon was during RVS and didn't even get to L-3, if I remember correctly. This seems a somewhat arbitrary reason to suspect someone.

Spoiler: A word from Lane which I find disturbing

Sorry, I've been distracted a lot these past few days. Anyways, I've read up on everything and have decided on a few things.
1. The non-newbie games are a lot more text heavy. (something I like, mind you)
2. ...

I would just like to make a list, to sum up this wall post, for future reference, as to the currently most active players in order of most activity to least activity.

Jason- 8 posts thus far
Princess Kiwi- 5 posts (including this one) thus far
Paraffin- 4 posts thus far
smear- 3 posts thus far
AlgorixalTyphoon- 3 posts thus far
Zachrules- 2 posts thus far
Antb- 2 posts thus far
malpascp- 2 posts thus far
descent- one post thus far
ceonn- one post thus far
ThAdmiral- one post thus far
GMan- one post thus far
Princesskdw- zero posts thus far

I find it strange how ceonn, and ThAdmiral only made entry posts, without answering the RQS (despite being just a few posts prior), or providing insight as to the going-ons of the game. Shows that they haven't really read the game, and are 'just' making appearances to avoid the lurking suspicion? Hmmm...

That is rather accurate of you, to a point. I admit I didn't eye-ball the thread much before making my post as I was short on time before. I assure you though, I have time now, and will get right to those questions now.

1. Alaska

2. I prefer them.

3. Town. It's much more relaxed that way, as having power makes me too nervous to make a good move, and at times before when I've been mafia I again get too nervous to make a clear night kill, much less keep myself from making a mistake.

this was 4 days ago? ceonn's second post? where is ceonn?

anyways, i can't get into shit right now. that was a long ass 5 pages.

i'll be much more active than princesskdw (who was regular town btw)

with posts coming everyday. tomorrow i'll do some iso's, skim some shit and do a review, i just can't start into it now. not for lack of time, just for this burning in my eyes.

i'll try and have more reasoning tomorrow, but here are first impressions.
i didnt like para at first. I took it as an rvs vote when he said we were out of rvs. but after my reading, i feel better about him.

very confident that princess kiwi is town.

i dont like smear, the unvote vote? seems like he was caught. the unvote would be looked at alone, being so quick, but the unvote vote, thats a whole new level.

malpascp? why havent you unvoted yourself yet?

town vibes from jason, not so much his early game, but more recently.

same with gman, besides the early game and recently part

algor, zachrulez, descent, havent figured out how to read his posts.

one apology was for unconciously starting to skim kiwis posts there at the end after i had a town read. i need to go back and read her and paraffins discussion a lot more closely tomorrow.

vote:ceonn

I find this disturbing, the part I bolded. It was basically a claim, when there was no need to claim. Lane, can you explain why you just threw that extra tidbit of information in there all willy-nilly?

Also, still looking at Smear scum; however, I hope he has not given up trying to clear his name, it might help us in the long run.

This was posted right after it was mentioned in Maruchan's post - I'm not sure if they happened on it the exact same time and decided to post at the same time, or if he saw it in her wall and decided it was a safe point to expand on.

[Lupus Vega]

Ok guys, this will be a big one. Sorry in advance. (But if you hadn't all written so much, neither would I.)

Still prefer a Mal lynch over Smear. He's remaining active enough to stick around in the game but not contributing at all.

He hasn't even bothered to make use of his vote beyond the one he cast on himself on RVS. There's literally nothing on him that I find as any kind of a distinguishable factor in getting any kind of read on him. You want to talk about going with the flow on going after Smear for going after the easy wagons, why is that not something worth pressuring Malpascp over?

Sorry again guys. I was leaning to a paraffin lynch today, but I don't see how that's possible now. Smear is a good alternative.
I don't usually make big re-read posts, but I think I can handle one in this game.

Is that not going with the flow? Not only going with the flow, but going with the flow without putting a vote in with the flow. So he can both play under the radar by going with the flow and escape scrutiny later because he didn't have a vote active. The only other thing he's done in this game is answer questions when prompted to by Princess Kiwi, which is just token contribution.

I have issues with Smear, but those issues stem from his early game positions on Paraffin. I'm actually pretty satisfied with his play since then, anyway I find Mal's play more deserving of a lynch. Let's make it happen.

This is the first post from Zach that says 'town' to me. Of course, I have the benefit of hindsight. And happen to agree with him about Mal. But still.

Lynch All Lurkers is a dangerous move and I'm against it.

Hm. Could see a Mal/AntB scum team.

lurking is a nulltell, to lynch anyone lurking is not good idea.

Speaking of lurking though, Smear is activly avoiding this topic, posting elsewhere (non game) on the site and was online as recent as a few hours ago.

this is scumlurking... hoping to avoid the heat, and come back when a new wagon is formed. (which he will probably jump upon)

Ok, first you say that lurking is a nulltell, then you go ahead and say we should lynch smear because of lurking. I know there's a difference between active and inactive lurking, but still. Also, if I remember correctly, Maru and someone else said just before this post that they reckoned town lurked more often than scum (and this includes active lurking), yet Jason ignores this and says "SMEAR IS DEFS SCUM 4 LURKING LETS LYNCH NOW!!!"

I say we lynch Smear. JS

Speaking of lurking though, Smear is activly avoiding this topic, posting elsewhere (non game) on the site and was online as recent as a few hours ago.

this is scumlurking... hoping to avoid the heat, and come back when a new wagon is formed. (which he will probably jump upon)

Someone hammer pls.

Maxous, vote for smear please.

I dislike all these posts. Especially considering that they're pressuring replacements to vote - replacements who haven't even had a chance to read the game yet.

I saw a game that needed a replacement. It was only 9 pages in. Cool this won't take me long to catch up, I can easily do it.
.....

Think how I feel....

I'll post again soon guys, but for now I'd like to answer my reason for voting Smear and where I stand:

The vote/ unvote/ revote thing was big for me, it was literally falling for a classic reaction-fishing trap.

This is the main thing I was wondering about. This is not a good reason to vote Smear as it being a scum tell is dependent on paraffin being scum. During my read through I got the impression that was why a lot of people were voting him and wanted to point out that is a horrid horrid reason to vote him.

Lynching someone based off associative tells before a a flip is reckless town.

That said him following the easy wagon and not putting much behind his cases for voting is scummy and I am willing to hammer. I just wanted to point out that voting him for his unvoting and revoting is not a valid reason to lynch him as no one has pointed that out yet.

I just got home and need to type up a post containing all my reads as I went through the thread but that may take awhile. I just wanted to post this so people could have my perspective on the current situation.

Just looking through the vote counts, and it shows that Smear has been on every major wagon, hell, he even jumped on my wagon when he didn't even know what it meant. If you look through every vote count, he has started one vote count which he abandoned quickly.

I'm looking to vote, but I'm not planning on it till close to the deadline.

Vote count was wrong. He never voted you and he was the first person to voge paraffin. Smears wagon is bullshit I will not hammer, after rereading his case is built on associative tells, lies and misinterpertations.

I have an incoming case on why I think princess k is scum but in the meantime VOTE: descent this guy posts very little and what he does when posting is push for the largest wagon but not voting for it. Scum like to push wagons while keeping their name off the vote count. His only vote so far this game was a joke vote on himself, though he has tried to help both the paraffin and smear wagons along

Just looking through the vote counts, and it shows that Smear has been on every major wagon, hell, he even jumped on my wagon when he didn't even know what it meant. If you look through every vote count, he has started one vote count which he abandoned quickly.

I'm looking to vote, but I'm not planning on it till close to the deadline.

Vote count was wrong. He never voted you and he was the first person to voge paraffin. Smears wagon is bullshit I will not hammer, after rereading his case is built on associative tells, lies and misinterpertations.

I have an incoming case on why I think princess k is scum but in the meantime VOTE: descent this guy posts very little and what he does when posting is push for the largest wagon but not voting for it. Scum like to push wagons while keeping their name off the vote count. His only vote so far this game was a joke vote on himself, though he has tried to help both the paraffin and smear wagons along

All of those points also apply to Mal.

^
That is two people you have tied into a smear scum-flip. I'm a bit suspicious about that.

Anyway, I should have something substantial up by tomorrow, apologies for taking so long.

unvote

I'm liking these two so far. They're both making sense (and saying things I don't disagree with).

I'm eager to hear what Malp has to say when he returns from vacation...


Also, I don't like how Para was active when there was a wagon on him, but now he doesn't even post here... He's posted in another game both today and yesterday, but hasn't touched this one in three.

Hey guys, very sorry for all my inactivity, it's been real busy and then I let this thread grow and the better of me. Too late to think at the moment but I will
UNVOTE: Malpascp
for now because I think there are surely better things to look at by now.

Go ahead, call me a hypocrite, but I'm not actively 'prododging'. Will post something for tomorrow. If I tried tonight I'd just prevent myself from getting any sleep.

So...he's active lurking, then posts as soon as someone challenges him about it, whilst claiming that he hasn't been reading the thread?

@PrincessKiwi
You're right, I've made minimal contribution, least I haven't made big fluffy walls and jumped wagon as soon as someone casts aspirations on me/mycase.

Lets address these points anyway :

#63 -> is page 3 I believe, I'm hardly going to have any solid reads at that time, am I?

#98 and 123 -> I have difficulty reading large blocks of text, do you have a problem with that? Why do you think my posts are always broken up and sectioned? I ended up reading them all by copying and pasting them into gEdit, which is set for a blue background and while text for me.

#138 - > Mason hunting or scum hunting? It qualifies as a null at best and at worse. Truth is I was saying what links I made at the time. Any fool can see that, the fact you've jumped on it now instead of then is very telling.

#183 -> Actually its for if I decide a case will be worth it, and they are pretty insignificant on their own. While I have pointed suspicion at 5 players, I believe the most was 3 at any one time. I'd be interested for an explanation of the irony. What you seems to be the opposite of irony and even possible misrepresentation.

#228 -> And? I stated earlier in #138 I thought there was something between them, at that point I believed (and still do) that it was because they are friends. That means I have overlooked the interaction prior to #138 and will not be using them as part of a case.

#237 -> All points which could of been had been, There was nothing additional for me to add to the case and

my

reasoning was asked for, not me using others reasons.

Also, his reasons have changed drastically for his vote on Smear, yet he has been voting for Smear all game...because lo' and behold, there's been a popular Smear wagon all game.

Really?
I voted for him during RVS and my vote has been there since because I've found him scummy throughout. I'd like to see all these instances of my reasoning drastically changing please.

---

I love how the case above me comes to light as a decent case against her comes along... Looks like attention shifting to me.

I had something to say about this post, but I have to run in a few minutes, so I'm leaving it here so I'll remember to come back to it later.

I want to vote smear but there's something holding me back... He's acting terribly scummy but my gut says something's not right there. Smear, claim please.

The new guys: welcome, sorry I haven't really introduced myself. Tomorrow I will post for real, I swear!

I said earlier I don't like gut feelings, but I think scum would have hammered. Not sure about this one.

Maru is probs town, Loving the bright bold red text from jason and loving Smear's OMGUS even more.

@Smear
Nobody listens to you because all you've done is attempt to fly under the radar and wagon jump. (NOTE: *attempt*)

I don't like this post at all. Giving a town read for arbitrary reasons? Blegh.

I have no time to read the rest at the moment, you wall-fiends! I'll be back in a while, and finish off then. For the moment, though (only having read up to page 12) I'm least sure of: Mal, Zach, Jason and AntB. Although I may have missed someone.

[ThAdmiral]

So I've reread. It's tough because of all the replacements but I believe Zach is the scummiest. His vote on paraffin was bad (post 50). He later unvoted and said he wanted to see paraffin react to pressure (61) but paraffin didn't post in between, so that doesn't ring true at all.

His vote and unvote on the smear wagon could have been to get townpoints for staying off the town wagon, but I'm not so sure about that so I'm not going to pursue that line of reasoning. I don't like his attacks of malp though, a bit weak, especially since (as has been mentioned plenty of times) malp isn't lurking or whatever he just isn't here.

vote: zach

I also don't like lane. Don't like how he got on the smear wagon for the same basic reason as Jason and I but didn't reference us as at all. I would imagine scum would not want to be seen sheeping and wagon jumping if the wagon was on town.

I like paraffin and jason as town.

[ThAdmiral]

edit: lane is now lupus.

'sup lupus. I don't agree with all of the stuff you say in your wallposts, but they're generally pretty good.

[Lurconis]

Going on an unplanned V/LA be back possibly Sunday night but probably Monday night sorry for the short notice.

Welcome Lupus like thAdmrial there I don't agree with everything in your posts thus far but it is nice to have a slot that participates

[jasonT1981]

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

He hasn't explained it yet where I'm up to, but that may change. If he hasn't, though. I'm not sure about this.

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase. Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

I have played with him MANY times and know his playstyle, that is why my opinion can change. Your attacking me for changing an opinion on someone?

lurking is a nulltell, to lynch anyone lurking is not good idea.

Speaking of lurking though, Smear is activly avoiding this topic, posting elsewhere (non game) on the site and was online as recent as a few hours ago.

this is scumlurking... hoping to avoid the heat, and come back when a new wagon is formed. (which he will probably jump upon)

Ok, first you say that lurking is a nulltell, then you go ahead and say we should lynch smear because of lurking. I know there's a difference between active and inactive lurking, but still. Also, if I remember correctly, Maru and someone else said just before this post that they reckoned town lurked more often than scum (and this includes active lurking), yet Jason ignores this and says "SMEAR IS DEFS SCUM 4 LURKING LETS LYNCH NOW!!!"

Lupas, while lurking (or not being about to post, which is called lurking) is a nulltell... activly being on the site, checking multiple times, posting elsewhere but avoiding posting is a scumtell.. that is the difference and that is why I called it. I said he was activly avoiding this topic. That was the issue!

[AntB]

I failed, I missed an "and" lol.

Zachs epic overreaction and wagon riding vote has alarm bells ringing, over-defensive and oppotunitism much?

He's leaping on anything which can be mildly interpreted as an attack and jumping on anything which might help him like it's going out of fashion (NOTE: more so than town would).

---

@Christine:
Stung once, twice shy, I'm watching you

---

@Lupus Vega
I'm curious how you get an AntB/Mal scum team from me saying I will not support a LaL lynch?

---

@Mod: LA over

[jasonT1981]

Im wondering if Lane, and Princess replacing out from same slot means anything? I have seen this as scum before a few times

[Maxous]

Hokay. I'll read and give my opinions. Thank god it's only 16 pages.

Lol - It's a trap!!!

WIlling to let Lupus finish.

I dunno what AntB means about Zachrulez.

[Lupus Vega]

Argh, Smear is acting crazy suspicious but he's at L-1 and I'm not comfortable enough with my read to bring down the hammer. I dunno exactly what it is; the strongest reason I have is that his behavior, while not identical to the last game I played with him, seems consistent with his personality. I don't expect that to be good enough to convince any of you, but it's the best reason I can give for not killing him here and now. ThAdmiral thinks I'm being hyper-cautious, and maybe I am, but I've seen more townies shoot themselves in the foot D1 than scum (not that I've got much experience to go on).

As for his lurking, really it seems like he's just given up on this game.

I've spent this entire game answering questions.

Nobody listens to any actual views I have.

I am town, but I'd be better off gone because you guys will start focusing on real scum.

That's not a scum or town tell to me, but it explains growing reluctance to post here. But maybe he's right and we'd be better off with some flips to get some real discussion rolling.

Keeping my vote off malpascp because I agree that lurking like that is more of a null-tell; scum just like it because it's easy to talk others into it. That said I really hope he gets replaced.

VOTE: AntB He's worse than malp because he's still posting the bare minimum to not be called out for lurking and he has next to no content. He's just been riding on other's arguments against smear and his only post of notable size was when there was a case against him.

I'd say it's too suspicious to actually be scum but it's worked out rather well for him thus far.

Also,

I love how the case above me comes to light as a decent case against her comes along... Looks like attention shifting to me.

This is an argument that gets made a lot but doesn't make any sense. You can defend yourself only and get called out for not scumhunting and being defensive, or you can defend yourself and make a case of your own and get called out for "attention shifting". It is not in and of itself a scumtell. I trust her to respond to the case against herself in due course.

Even if I don't agree with the case (AntB isn't anywhere near my top suspect, despite my last post), this post has put Paraffin firmly at the top of my town list. The fact that he was suspicious of Smear but wouldn't hammer him is either town play or genius scum.

i doubt you'll get a wagon-shift with a deadline in 6 days.

And in the post directly after his, Maruchan doesn't give an opinion of Paraffin's argument, merely staying on her "Lynch Smear and don't think about anything else" track.

Right.

Vote: Malpascp

Nothing, nothing and more nothing.

Really? gone for a week and nothing at all to add?

no, this is not town Zach

vote:Zach

I'm not sure about this post...I like it, but it could be bussing...but my gut tells me town...but I hate gut. I'll think about it.

I'm trying to put an idea in the town's head - lynch lane.
As for the NK speculation, I'm saying that at least one of the people kiwi was after is likely to be mafia, possibly 2 - unless this was just for WIFOM. But I doubt it.
Kiwi was'nt a strong obv-town player who was a possible mislynch so there's quite likely to be a reason for her kill.

I couldn't be bothered searching through the posts and finding it again, but at the beginning of the day Maxous voted for Lane without any explanation. This doesn't really tell me he's trying to put an idea in the town's head - especially after 1) he only explained himself after being questioned and 2) he used the same words that the person who questioned him used (put an idea in the town's head).

I'm not actually sure to be honest. I haven't even worked out who the Mason's are. I have the feeling that one of Zach or Jason are one mason and one scum. Not sure which is which, and then you got Maru, who keeps talking about how he is the only remaining Vanilla townie, which kind of makes me wonder what his motivation is in that when there is still 11 of us, so there must still be two Vanilla Townies, and if he is telling the truth, then if the Masons claimed, then we would have the scum members just sitting up on a platter for us, but I don't see that as happening.

Either way, I hope this post isn't seen as Mason Hunting, however, I do feel like it was a mistake pursuing Smear, even if his play was scummy at best.

I love the last bit of this post ' I hope this post isn't seen as Mason Hunting' nice attempt to distance yourself from your actions in the post. What is the point in saying you believe either Zach or I to be masons? Town has no reason to speculate on that as it helps scum.

I agree, and was about to post the same. Also, to say "I do feel like it was a mistake pursuing Smear, even if his play was scummy at best" is ridiculous. Of course it was a mistake, but hindsight is...well, you know.

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

He hasn't explained it yet where I'm up to, but that may change. If he hasn't, though. I'm not sure about this.

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase. Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

I have played with him MANY times and know his playstyle, that is why my opinion can change. Your attacking me for changing an opinion on someone?

lurking is a nulltell, to lynch anyone lurking is not good idea.

Speaking of lurking though, Smear is activly avoiding this topic, posting elsewhere (non game) on the site and was online as recent as a few hours ago.

this is scumlurking... hoping to avoid the heat, and come back when a new wagon is formed. (which he will probably jump upon)

Ok, first you say that lurking is a nulltell, then you go ahead and say we should lynch smear because of lurking. I know there's a difference between active and inactive lurking, but still. Also, if I remember correctly, Maru and someone else said just before this post that they reckoned town lurked more often than scum (and this includes active lurking), yet Jason ignores this and says "SMEAR IS DEFS SCUM 4 LURKING LETS LYNCH NOW!!!"

Lupas, while lurking (or not being about to post, which is called lurking) is a nulltell... activly being on the site, checking multiple times, posting elsewhere but avoiding posting is a scumtell.. that is the difference and that is why I called it. I said he was activly avoiding this topic. That was the issue!

First issue - sorry, I remembered incorrectly. Second issue - hm. Let me think on it more.

[Lupus Vega]

Ok, reviewing my posts, the two people who jump out as quite scummy to me are Mal (now Christine) and Zach. I don't want to vote Christine as she's only just replaced (if I don't like her play, I daresay this will change quickly, as I found Mal worse than Zach [although he did replace out, so I'm uncertain of the read I have now...] So, without further ado:

Vote: Zachrulez

Regarding players' suspicion on Lane/Princess, I'm not going to bother talking about it as I can't see into their heads. If their behaviour is enough to convince you to lynch me, go ahead.

[ThAdmiral]

Im wondering if Lane, and Princess replacing out from same slot means anything? I have seen this as scum before a few times

That is the definition of a null tell. This is the first thing I haven't liked from you.

[jasonT1981]

I love the last bit of this post ' I hope this post isn't seen as Mason Hunting' nice attempt to distance yourself from your actions in the post. What is the point in saying you believe either Zach or I to be masons? Town has no reason to speculate on that as it helps scum.

I agree, and was about to post the same.

Also, to say "I do feel like it was a mistake pursuing Smear, even if his play was scummy at best" is ridiculous. Of course it was a mistake, but hindsight is...well, you know.

Wait... didn't you JUMP on me for EXACTLY the same thing

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase.

Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

why yes, yes you bloody well did!

[jasonT1981]

Im wondering if Lane, and Princess replacing out from same slot means anything? I have seen this as scum before a few times

That is the definition of a null tell. This is the first thing I haven't liked from you.

its more just personal opinion. In games I seem to notice the scum replacing out multiple times more in a slot than a town slot, maybe scum doing it is just more noticeable really.

[jasonT1981]

I am now very confident in my scum read on Zach.

As town, Zach seems to lead more.. seems to jump over everything he sees, questioning things, actively scumhunts and calls everyone on anything he sees as not right. He is aggressive and goes after who he feels as scum very hard. DIE SCUM DIE! As town, Zach makes many, many posts per page and will fight tooth and nail to secure a lynch of who he feels is scum

As scum Zach is the polar opposite, Zach is subdued, plays cautiously, quietly and does not hunt as actively or is less agressive and does not post as much, lurking and keeping quiet. Coming in makes a post here and there. He does not go after people much or does not press them.

In essence, the exact way he is playing here. I am 100% sure Zach will flip scum.

[jasonT1981]

I will say on this, Zach has been successfully nailed with the above as scum MANY times over. That is how I am so confident.

[ThAdmiral]

examples pls

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Lupus Vega (1): Maxous
Christine (1): Zachrulez

Zachrulez (3): jasonT1981, ThAdmiral, Lupus Vega

Not voting (6): Descent, AntB, Maruchan, Lurconis, Christine, paraffin

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is October 12th, 8 p.m. CEST.

CSL replaces Maruchan. Thanks!

Descent has been prodded.

[Descent]

Gotta re-read, do it tomorrow. Basically just checking in, want to apologize.

[Zachrulez]

examples pls

I'm interested in this too.

[ThAdmiral]

People need to vote and all that.

Seriously - not voting is for losers.

[jasonT1981]

examples pls

I'm interested in this too.

LOLS you know this as true.

I will have to shift through games, I no longer have them saved in my bookmarks. Bare with me, tonight or tomorrow.