Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Crab Canon]

Notes on Junpei:

Post 9 - RQS questions.
Post 36 - getting details about Vi's post restriction.
Post 45 - Announce L-3 for Saulres, votes him after saying he didn't find him scummy for something but calling him scummy for something else (leaving lots of outs here).
Post 50 - it wasn't scummy until Vi brought it to my attention.
Post 71 - Making a mountain out a molehill for VP and I signing/not signing posts
Post 95 - Go back and see if he has highest post count? Suggests here he does. If I remember he has disappeared more.
Our Post 115 - did he answer this?
Post 330 - I agree with Sotty (in 331) this is another weak and stupid argument.
Post 346 - Buddying/defending Fishy
Post 361 - Pursuing hydra disagreement as a scumtell
Post 365 - Continues hydra disagreement agrument
Post 380 - More buddying Fish
Post 417 - White knighting on behalf of SL
Post 461 - More pursuing hydra disagreement as a scumtell
Post 526 - easing over to the SL mislynch
Post 563 - Possible buddying of ace?
Post 567 - Willing to hammer ace?
Post 569 - ace is a STRONG town read, SL is a STRONG scum read. This post is really scummy.
<Confused by 563 to 569>
Post 620 - buddying saul?
Post 773 - buddying Vi

I may change my vote tomorrow. I need to step away and digest this game a little bit. VP posted that he should have internet today/tomorrow so I hope he can get caught up and we can figure some things out.

[Shift]

Trying to see if I can replace in as a hydra with Regfan due to time constraints+need of a scumhunting boost.

Again I'm sorry for my relative inactivity.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Shift has been replaced by Luxury (Shift/Regfan).

Guy_Named_Riggs has been prodded.

[saulres]

Post 127 - Seems to be playing the newb card.

Wow that's pretty selective, picking out just that one question. How about the rest of it where I put an argument against 4nxi1ety?

Post 177 - Another newb card.

What? How is asking for an explanation of an image a newbie card?

Post 182 - I don't like this buddying here by Saulres especially after anxiety just talked about "fluffy interaction" It feels like he is trying to solidify a tie to us.

At tie to

you

? In what possible way could you have construed that?

Post 199 - Did he ever reread our interactions with sottyrulez?

Why yes, yes I did.

Post 288 - Another game recap. Gawd this guy!

Got it, asking to make sure I understand what's going on is a boring read for you. You can stop recapping that now.

Post 322 - asks questions about what's going on...

I'm glad it's so easy for you to understand everything.

Fluff posts

Yes, I admit, sometimes I post things which aren't designed to root out scum, but instead to interact with other players at a different level. This is quite a bit a social game, and I enjoy being social. Get over it.

Of course you would never do any of the things you accuse me of.

So what's your conclusion on me after spending two posts detailing some of my posts and completely ignoring others?

[saulres]

4nxi3ty, here are my current reads. Locke, my read on GNR comes from what you asked as well as my own analysis.

Scummy

4nxi3ty: scum
Guy_Named_Riggs: flailing newbie scum
Crab Canon (VP Baltar/Juls): High scum probability

Townish

Vi: Leaning town
Locke Lamora: Leaning town

No current opinion

Shift Luxury (Shift/Regfan)
Junpei
ace5993
Sathoris/Fishythefish
Amrun

@Mod

: I will be V/LA again starting roughly 12 hours from now and extending roughly 48 hours from then.

[Fishythefish]

fishy do you agree with vi or cc about saulres.

Don't know. My opinion of him can be found in a post today where I call him, you and ace scum.

Won't be around much this weekend. Some access, but not a lot.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

hey, sorry for the inactivity, lots going on with school. I'll be able to post on Saturday.

[Vi]

hey, sorry for the inactivity, lots going on with school. I'll be able to post on Saturday.

*twitches*

*passes paper to ace5993*

[Vi]

*passes paper to ace5993*

*takes paper back from ace5993*

*watches*
*waits*

[Crab Canon]

Wow that's pretty selective, picking out just that one question. How about the rest of it where I put an argument against 4nxi1ety?

These are my raw notes. I note the things that I find townie and the things I find scummy. I do not note things that are null to me.

What? How is asking for an explanation of an image a newbie card?

It's the whole "oh I am so confused/focusing on things that don't matter".

At tie to you? In what possible way could you have construed that?

If I recall correctly anxiety had just said "I don't like the fluffy interaction with CC" and you followed with a "fluffy interaction". I didn't like it. You are getting a little pissy over my raw notes here. These are my personal, raw notes on you as I noted them throughout my read. If I felt this was important enough I would have brought it up in thread at the time. As it were, this is probably not a big deal.

Why yes, yes I did.

I am aware that you did. Again, raw notes. I made a note of it at the time to make sure you did follow up and weren't just making promises.

Got it, asking to make sure I understand what's going on is a boring read for you. You can stop recapping that now.

There were a series of posts where you did NOTHING but say "Let me make sure I got this straight..." and recap what had happened since your last post. This, my friend, is not scum hunting. This is active without content.

Of course you would never do any of the things you accuse me of.

LOL, reach much? Probably one of those is truly a fluff post and that was the one about seeing Penn and Teller. One is letting the game know when they should expect content from us. The rest were ALL game related in some fashion if nothing more than to drive home a point.


And please, show me how you got to this:

Crab Canon (VP Baltar/Juls): High scum probability

from this:

Here I just finished my analysis of the sotty vs. cc debate, coming up with sotty being scummier than cc

At that point I realized that I kept getting what I felt as townfeel for CC and scumfeel for Sotty. I did some skimming instead of continuing the details and found nothing which made me change my mind.

and I look forward to reviewing the thread to look at CC more closely.

CC seems to be quite calm, I don't know why sotty was going all nuts yesterday over him. I see nothing in CC's ISO which is clearly town or clearly scum. Nulltell at this point.

Please, make your case. Otherwise this is strictly OMGUS.

[saulres]

The "case" at the moment comes down to this.

It's not much, and it's not enough to put a vote on you at this time. 4nxi3ty asked me for reads and I gave them. Should a viable wagon start on you, I'd go back through your ISO and make a decision whether to join or not.

[Crab Canon]

Oh really?

CC is town

Why? CC has gone up on my scumdar due to sotty's flip, I just haven't had time to review his ISO.

I do encourage everyone to read over this past interaction between SR and myself. I think it is quite telling and needs to be looked at beyond the rhetoric spit by either side.

Just did that as well as the rest of CC's ISO. CC seems to be quite calm, I don't know why sotty was going all nuts yesterday over him. I see nothing in CC's ISO which is clearly town or clearly scum. Nulltell at this point.

Spoiler: Rant about hydras (igonre if you want, except CC)

I'm rather -- distressed -- over the breaks a hydra gets that a solo player doesn't. In particular, "Oh, part of me feels that so-and-so is scum, but my other head disagrees." If a solo player said "I think that so-and-so is scum, but he could also be town" then that player is immediately criticized for not being committal (as 4nxi3ty did to me earlier in this thread). Where's the challenge of CC for that, 4nxi3ty? Oh, that's right, you can't because it's two people not one. I can't wait for the "I didn't agree with my other head on that vote but I didn't get back to the computer in time to change it."

Given that, I'd hoped that CC would have lived up to this:

We're one head and you're not going to hear any cognitive dissonance from us

But no:

Reading our QT and VP's post in thread I completely agree with him on most everything

except

Guy_Named_Riggs (will explain in a sec).

VP suggested that he thought GNR was just bad town but

I disagree

.

The next analyses I plan to do are on those who lynched SL yesterday. Most likely there's at least one (if not more) scum on that wagon. But I want to hear from Vi and GNR about Ace's reveal, first.

I am not great at math (actually I am, it was my minor in college) but I do believe 656 is greater than 628. So your case is that we went up your scumdar but on further review it was a nulltell yet that is your case on me?

Yeah...I'm gonna have to...

Unvote, vote: saulres

[saulres]

Oh. Whoops. Didn't remember that order. Thanks for pointing it out.

The key part is, "not enough to put a vote on you at this time". I have my vote where I believe it belongs. Even if GNR starts having a wagon on him, I'll go back and review the case.

[Junpei]

First off, CC, your bit about those being raw notes and your interpretations therefore being suffice is wrong. When you do PBP you need links to the post so that we can cross reference every post with ease. The way you have it laid out makes it very hard to discern what you're talking about and forces us to open up more tabs and flip between them to read. What I'm trying to say is: Saulres has every right to be upset with your interpretation of the facts.

Saulres, I am wondering how you have CC does as very likely to be scum as well, however you have 5 null reads? Now, granted, I don't have strong reads on everyone in this game either, but you did say "leaning town" on both Vi and Locke. Seems like you aren't confident in anyone as town thus far.

Other things I noticed...
this post by Saulres was very helpful and towny. I have been confused with what was going on with the whole Vi/GNr/Ace shenanigans, but that really helped to clear it up. It's bad enough that Vi's posts are annoying to read, let alone this whole series of events, but this uncomplicated it, and I see no scum motive for that.

This post by fish is strange, I mean if Vi is telling the truth, two kills went off. Does Fish believe that he RB'd anxiety from shooting off a THIRD kill? I believe Anxiety is scum, but not for this ridiculous reason.

pedit: Saulres, I'm going to look more into this when I have time, gotta go for now.

[4nxi3ty]

4nxi3ty, here are my current reads. Locke, my read on GNR comes from what you asked as well as my own analysis.

Scummy

4nxi3ty: scum
Guy_Named_Riggs: flailing newbie scum
Crab Canon (VP Baltar/Juls): High scum probability

Townish

Vi: Leaning town
Locke Lamora: Leaning town

No current opinion

Shift Luxury (Shift/Regfan)
Junpei
ace5993
Sathoris/Fishythefish
Amrun

@Mod

: I will be V/LA again starting roughly 12 hours from now and extending roughly 48 hours from then.

i asked for both your day one and day two reads, why did you intentionally ignore that part?

unvote,vote: saulres

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 2.6

4nxi3ty (L-2) – Junpei, Fishythefish, ace5993, saulres
saulres (L-4) - Crab Canon, 4nxi3ty
ace5993 (L-5) - Locke Lamora
Crab Canon (L-5) – Vi
Junpei (L-5) – Amrun

Not Voting (2) - Luxury, Guy_Named_Riggs,

Deadline: Sunday October 16 @ 2:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2011-10-16 14:00:00)

[Crab Canon]

First off, CC, your bit about those being raw notes and your interpretations therefore being suffice is wrong. When you do PBP you need links to the post so that we can cross reference every post with ease. The way you have it laid out makes it very hard to discern what you're talking about and forces us to open up more tabs and flip between them to read. What I'm trying to say is: Saulres has every right to be upset with your interpretation of the facts.

If you (or anyone) has questions about what I wrote I am happy to explain. They are raw notes so going back and adding links was more than I cared to do (although I am usually pretty generous with linking things). The way they have changed the board, opening up a second window and isoing the person is a very simple thing to do. When you have time, you can also explain your thought process from 563 to 569, thanks.

Also, I don't interpret that post by fishy that way at all. I think he is offering multiple scenarios, one of which is that he blocked anxiety from shooting player X. Another is that Vi was shot. I don't get how you think he is saying BOTH occurred.

[saulres]

i asked for both your day one and day two reads, why did you intentionally ignore that part?

I don't have a list of what my reads were yesterday. I don't keep notes like that; if I did, I wouldn't have mixed up my Crab Canon thoughts as above. If you want to look through my ISO to see what my thoughts were, feel free. I'm not going to do that for you.

I don't interpret that post by fishy that way at all. I think he is offering multiple scenarios, one of which is that he blocked anxiety from shooting player X. Another is that Vi was shot. I don't get how you think he is saying BOTH occurred.

Yes, this. It's much more probable that scum was blocked than that they happened to shoot a bulletproof player.

[4nxi3ty]

here are most if not at all of saulres' posts that take a stance on someone day one, all his other posts have mainly been iioa:

The high fives were because I agreed with two of the statements. Nothing more.

Glad to see spring's reneged on her lurk

, though.

His reaction to my vote though is absolutely scumtastic.

It is? Please elaborate. I had seen you vote for me with no reason, in a post where you quoted Vi and no one else, so I questioned why. I don't see how that's a scumtell. If anything I'd read it as

"Vi signalled her scumbuddies to vote for the people she listed without voting for them" and you following along

.

Finally got a chance to catch up. First a couple of questions:

1)

*opens mystery box to reveal

a one-shot Cult Cop ability

I wiki'd what a Cult is, and I know what a Cop is -- what's a "Cult Cop"? A member of a Cult with Cop abilities, or a Cop who can detect if someone's Cult or not?

2)

The fact that Vi concurred with another vote meant to me that there was something scummy about saulres

Why does Vi's opinion hold so much sway over you, Junpei?

Okay, now the case and the vote:

4ni3ty: In the post right before this one,

you agree with Amrun that Shift looks like scum, so you promptly follow Vi's solo-wagon onto Crab Canon? That's seems curious to me

.

In 34 you interact with Vi saying her -- (digression: Vi could you please gesture something to indicate your gender?) -- saying her posts make you look bad. In 24 you say interaction "allows us to see what a player is doing like buddying for example". Using your own advice, I looked at the interaction in 34, and it sure feels like buddying with Vi.

Whether Vi is scum or not, both of the above points seem like buddying. Whether it's scum buddying a scumbuddy or scum false-buddying to set someone up later, it's too suspicious for me to ignore.

Your 105 is bizarre as well. You tell shift he needs to distance from me and ace.

Funny, I never saw him buddying with me or Ace.

All I saw was tunneling on me and hoping Ace would contribute. I don't know what you were trying to accomplish with that post, but it seems misdirecting, and scummy.

So, yeah. Scumvibes all around

.

VOTE: 4nxi3ty

Thanks for the image-decoding, CC.

4nxi3ty got a lot better as he posted about Shift and about CC. Really not understanding saulres vote on him in 127. He seems to pick up on a lot of things that aren't actually scummy.

They're not? How are they not?

Here were my points. Please explain how they're not scummy:

Point 1: Thinks Shift is scum and then, out of nowhere, with no further explanation, votes Crab Canon. He still hasn't provided any solid reasons, eventually saying "Vibes and fluff" in 167.

Point 2: Interactions with Vi.

Based on these interactions I see 4nxi3ty being Vi's "role partner"

-- if you've figured out who Vi is then you'll know what I mean -- and it sure seems that he's buddying with her (either as scumbuddy or as a setup if they're on opposing sides).

Point 3: Strawman argument of his own that shift is either distancing or buddying with both me and Ace.

/me begins thinking about who could be the other in Vi's group of three roles is.

He knows who Vi's role is, knows who Vi's partner role is (the role not the player for sure yet, although he has his suspicions) and wonders if the third has the initials ca

.

Riggs, do you have a reason of your own to vote for Ace? You haven't provided one.

And sotty, Crab -- thanks for the advice. Rest assured I don't say everything that's on my mind, but I do try to gather more information when I have questions.

Boy this game has a lot of different bandwagons. Here I just finished my analysis of the sotty vs. cc debate,

coming up with sotty being scummier than cc, only to find that now the leading bandwagon is on ace.

Time to read again.

Welcome, fishy, fishy, fishy, ooh!

Can someone explain the wagon on Ace for me?

Near as I can tell,

it's there because Ace defended CC. Vi voted for him and then sotty and 4nxi3ty sheeped. Riggs joined it because -- well, because sotty's on it and Ace thinks sotty is scum and bussing Ace.

Do I have that right? Because I don't see what the big deal is. Is there something I'm missing?

Why are you doing that?

4nxi3ty, I served with Vi, I knew Vi, Vi was a friend of mine. 4nxi3ty, you're no Vi.*

_{*disclaimer: I haven't actually played with Vi before. But I couldn't resist the quote.}

Speaking of Vi, who isn't speaking:

noun
1. a Muslim or Hindu religious ascetic or mendicant monk commonly considered a wonder-worker.
2. a member of any Islamic religious order; dervish.

You think he's a wonder-worker!

No, that can't be right. Must be some other meaning you're ascribing to it which I don't understand.

Nevertheless, I believe now that what you're saying is that Ace incriminated himself with his exchange as you displayed in

257.

So, to Ace. I do find this funny:

^good posting. I don't really agree with most of it

But I'm not seeing anything solidly scum, so I have no scum-read-reason to vote for him.

Having said that: I'm going to be V/LA -- more than V/LA, completely inaccessible -- starting a little less than 48 hours before day deadline, extending to sometime during game night. This means my vote's going to be locked in around that time and unchangeable, so I want it as right as possible before then.

Or, for the day to end before then. I'm starting to think at this point that a flip of -- several players -- would be quite illuminating. So if someone whose flip I think would be revealing gets to L-1, I'll probably be willing to hammer.

Confirm vote: 4nxi3ty

I highly suggest everyone else policy lynch him until he stops posting like that.

Unless Vi converted him?

the fact that his vote is currently on a suggested policy lynch speaks volumes

You understand it was there before that suggestion, right?

As to the rest, I'm just trying to be honest about my unavailability and letting people know that I will not at all be available at end of day. Since I like having input I'd rather be around at end of day and indicating my willingness to help end day a couple of days early so my vote is as well-placed as it can be. Right now it looks like it could move to end the day early if I put in on sotty or ace, and I think sotty's flip would reveal a ton more than ace, so I was tempted to move it, but the way bandwagons move around here so much I'd rather not move it off my top suspect just yet. There's still a few more real days until I have to be gone.

*looks back at 4nxi3ty with a completely blank look as if to say "

I have no idea at all what you're talking about or who the boss is but I think you having a boss means it's more likely that you're a goon and your boss is a scum leader*

It's the best I can do with whatever 4nxi3ty posted. I hate how I don't understand what people are saying in this game.

Vi's generally not a problem

, if something's not clear and she's asked about she usually explains it.

It's in particular 4nxi3ty

's lack of follow-up and explanation that's anti-town to me. It's like using a secret code and anyone who wants to do that is not, imo, helping town at all.

Plus there's all the confusion I get trying to understand "he" "she" "this" etc. when it's not clear to someone other than possibly the poster who they mean. As I've frutilessly pointed out before.

No one's moving votes?

Fine then. I think not enough people are going to be coming on my 4nxi3ty bandwagon, so time to move mine to

another scumspect

.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sottyrulez

Vi? 295 should be 255. Also, you missed one.

however 227 is one of the most bizarre name mess-ups I've ever seen, I'm not sure how he could mix up me and 4nxi3ty in this context when we were on opposite poles of his wagon.

In any case,

what I take from this is that you think CC's slip is indicative that CC is scumbuddies with Ace. And SR and 4nxi3ty, the names intended by CC, are people the scumteam of CC and Ace were trying to get busses on 227-228.

Because I enjoy your RP, Vi, give us a show to answer? How about a card trick if yes and a rings trick if no?

You're kidding right? You seriously think that that post was a "push" for a policy lynch?

I'd been voting for you for most of the game. People weren't joining. Then you started posting annoyingly, so I suggested another reason to vote for you.

If you're town, you were a detriment to it then

. And you still are. To wit:

Ace's post you quoted has nothing to do with you. It was written after I moved my vote off you and onto sotty. Ace's vote at the time was on sotty. Shift's policy lynch he refers to was on spring for lurking.

There were actually

no votes at all for you

at the time that post written.

I don't think I've ever seen such a poorly-researched misrep.

I'm not saying you're scum, because I don't know who the scum is.

I have no way of knowing until someone flips or makes a clear mistake if they're scum.

I'm saying that

you're anti-town.

I'm also saying that

you're in the top two of my scumreads.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I'm suggesting some sort of connection between at least two of them if not all three. I lean towards SR/4nxi3ty being scum, possibly tagging onto Vi to make her look bad if one of them flips (although Vi's hooking of SR a few posts up makes it look like she's in on it at least as far as SR goes). They could all be connected town, though, too. That's one of the reasons, as I explained above, why I think flipping one of them would be very telling.

I am trying to gather more information, though, before I V/LA (a misnomer, once I'm gone I will have

no

access until I return), because I'm of course open to other scum possibilities. I just haven't seen enough anywhere else which gives me potential links, making other flips essentially random and barely informative.

why is everyone ignoring GNR?

Sounds like my cue to ISO! (I do so love ISOing requests.) And with 12 posts, this shouldn't take long.

First 5 posts: No content.

243: Presumes Ace and SR are scumbuddies because SR changed his vote to ace right after Vi did. So votes -- Ace? Weird.

245 and 246: Calls SR Crab by mistake and buddies up to Vi.

Wait what? How many times are people going to call other people by the wrong names in this game?

285 confirms his thought that SR is scum.

325 thinks 4nxi3ty's annoying town.

416 talks about spring and sees votes but not the reasons behind them.

Spring, I think everybody's ignoring GNR because he's not really doing anything. That's not necessarily scummy

.

Or,

rejoin the much more viable SR wagon. If you think GNR is scum, then you have to think SR's also scum from the way GNR treated him in

243.

@SR: The link is that GNR said "Hey Sotty! My vote isn't on Ace, but you're scum because you're bussing him! So I'm going to vote for him instead of you!" If GNR is scum that reads as "I'll support my scumbuddy who's voting for town, and tomorrow when he's not scum make up some excuse to get him off the hook.

Also I never said I think Vi is scum.[/b[ I said that you and 4nxi3ty were likely scum and were following her around for some reason (a behavior, BTW, which stopped after I pointed it out).

That leaves room for a third scum who could theoretically be GNR. And your flip would help confirm/deny those suspicions as well as the other ones I noted on CC, 4nxiety, possibly Vi, and now GNR

.

[4nxi3ty]

missed one quote

the fact that his vote is currently on a suggested policy lynch speaks volumes

You understand it was there before that suggestion, right?

As to the rest, I'm just trying to be honest about my unavailability and letting people know that I will not at all be available at end of day. Since I like having input I'd rather be around at end of day and indicating my willingness to help end day a couple of days early so my vote is as well-placed as it can be.

Right now it looks like it could move to end the day early if I put in on sotty or ace, and I think sotty's flip would reveal a ton more than ace

, so I was tempted to move it, but the way bandwagons move around here so much I'd rather not move it off my top suspect just yet. There's still a few more real days until I have to be gone.

[saulres]

Aside from the fact that some of these aren't my stances, they're my interpretation of other people's stances -- What point are you trying to make?

[4nxi3ty]

your interpretation of someone is your stance on them.

silly rabbit tricks are for kids.

[saulres]

I didn't say my interpretation of someone. I said my interpretation of

other people's

stances.

In any case, I still don't see your point. Why did you post all that?

[Amrun]

saulres still not scum.

[Junpei]

Yes, this. It's much more probable that scum was blocked than that they happened to shoot a bulletproof player.

Lol what? Now I know there are a lot of possible variables to account for, but given that there are (X+1) players, and a RB and a bp (the assumption you are making), the chances are equal. 1/X, to be exact.

Crab Canon, this is a no reveal game, and a claim could potentially help town quite a lot. There is no harm in prolonging the lynch by a few hours when I'm around checking the thread constantly ready to hammer if someone wants to blitz day 1 for some reason. A claim would have been very helpful in the event that spring flips town (however unlikely). That was my logic, along with the fact that people indicated that they were going to post before the deadline and several hadn't.