Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this juncture we are getting close enough to deadline that we need to give sufficent time for a claim so we don't get a No Lynch at deadline.

People need to get Iceguy to L-1 for said claim or REALLY move a wagon to compete with it.

I'd support Otolia, Alabaska or Jak as viable alternatives if they can be driven past Iceguy today.

[Ghostlin]

The following wagons need to dissolve:

StefanB (2): IceGuy, Otolia
MagnaofIllusion (1): Magister Ludi
sorgster (1): whispersilk

+the BS wagon if it's not going to get more votes. We're at

least

1 vote down today due to DX's V/LA.

I will move my vote to IceGuy Sunday night if no one else has more votes than him.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, Ludi, why are you still on MoI? Stop voting him. Jeez.

I could get behind a wagon on Alabaska if one pops up, but I don't see myself getting on any of the other wagons

Also need to be more cognizant of the deadline in future days. Did not realise we were using bankable deadlines, either. :/

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin, how do you not see Yosarian as town?

*shrug* He hasn't done much to make me think he's town. Doesn't help that his vote has been floating on BabySpice since almost the beginning of the game and he hasn't been doing much of anything lately.

[StefanB]

Muffin: Ludi is getting replaced and was VLA before. So he couldn't chance his vote.
We are 2 votes missing.
Good news is that one VLA ends today. Hello Wraith.

[Maxous]

So many jokes have went over people's head in this game...
It is ironically funny.

Can IceGuy just claim now?
It's a waste of time to put him at L-1 first.
He is clearly the intended lynch.

[IceGuy]

Since the viable wagons are myself, Otolia, sageamagoo, and Baby Spice, I'm going to

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sageamagoo

since he is the scummiest of the four (or actually, the only one which I can see myself voting).

Other strong scum suspects are StefanB and EtherealCookie.

I've done a full Otolia, sage and BS reread.

Otolia

seems to be getting heat for one post only:

I am really puzzled by this game. There is still not much going on and I don't feel like answering or questioning anybody which is unusual.

There is people getting worked up over my spamming rant, which is a little sad. But I guess you grab whatever tell you can get. I will say that there is a preview feature on MS and I'd like people to use it more.

This post is basically a prod-dodge, I'll post more during this week, after a more careful re-read.

While a series of such posts might be a scumtell (but even if we start lynching lurkers, we should lynch the

real

lurkers which don't provide ANY content for the ENTIRE game), he was essentially right in that the game was dragging at this point. He was fired at by MoI:

I see this and my gut says “Kill it with Fire”.

He then defended himself, drew more fire from MoI and eventually gained more and more votes.

I've seen enough wagons on town go down like this:
1. A votes B with a weak case.
2. B defends himself.
3. A attacks B for whatever he has written.
4. Bad/confused/lazy town players vote B; they don't have any suspects, so they're sheeping.
5. More back-and-forth between A and B.
6. Scum see a mislynch opportunity and also vote B.
7. Repeat steps 4, 5 and 6 as necessary.
8. Somebody drops the hammer, B flips town and everybody goes "ooooh, but he was SO scummy!" (At least sometimes you have impatient scum which quickhammer.)

Defense is useless - I experienced it myself when I was the town wagon. Everything the wagoned player does is pressed into the framework of "he must be scum".

Attacking somebody? Either trying to save his own skin, or bussing.
Defending somebody? Either buddying or defending a scum partner.
Defending a stance he's been called out? Obviously just trying to deflect.
Reversing a stance for which he's been attacked? Scummy backpedaling.
And so on, and so forth.

He isn't scum.

For

Baby Spice

, we have a similar case, only with Yos as the attacker, and the cause of the attack being an attack on ML. Again, she isn't scum.

The only case I can follow is

sageamagoo

. Let's ISO him.

ISO #0: Some reads which are mostly null-reads (zMuffinMan is leaning scum because he's leaning town and he's what he doesn't seem to be - what?, Whisper is an intelligent player, Ludi is scum even though he posted a lot.)
ISO #1/#2: Quoting mistakes.
ISO #3: Long post, but mostly quotes and very little new content (for instance, his defense for the zMuffinMan read is "zmuffin is a contradiction."). After that, he says:

That said...

I think Ice and StephanB might be scum bussing each other. VOTE: Iceguy for having the most votes of the two.

He gets heat for that stupid attack/vote, and I agree with DY here:

That said...

I think Ice and StephanB might be scum bussing each other. VOTE: Iceguy for having the most votes of the two.

I'm ignoring everything else you said to me in that post because this line alone is ridiculously scummy. First, there is no assertion for why Ice/Stephan are scum, or why they are scum together, ESPECIALLY when we know there are multiple scum factions in the game, and finally, scumhunting in terms of a scumteam on D1 is not infrequently done by scum to try to pretend to be more helpful than they are really being. This is inauthentic scumhunting and is worth voting for you by itself.

Unvote. Vote: sageamagoo.

ISO #4: He backpedals on his StefanB scum read and starts attacking DarthYoshi:

Looked through Stephan's IOS, he dosn't look as scummy as I originally thought. The bussing thing? Yeah, that isn't very likely anymore. It was more of a "What if?" statement. But Yoshi, there's something about you commenting on everyone's idea without getting in the middle of things that makes me think of you as scum.

Ice is one of the scummiest posters here, and you have nothing to say to him, instead going against Stephan. I could imagine you being on the same team as Ice.

One post before that, I was bussing StefanB. Now he isn't scum anymore, but I still am. And DY is scum with me for attacking sage and not attacking me.

ISO #5: Comments on my reads:

DarthYoshi is totally on the same team as Iceguy. I don't get the town vibes you seem to be getting, Ice. Certainly not enough to give him a full +5. Somehow, this list also seems to differ a little from what I think Ice would actually think. It seems he wants to make reads that fit other's ideas instead of using his own.

So I'm simultaneously trying to fit the ideas of others, yet completely contradicting his. I smell a contradiction.

ISO #6: Answers to some questions regarding Mafia experience and whispersilk.
ISO #7: Answers to whispersilk again.
ISO #8: I seriously don't understand what he's trying to say there. Here's the link so you can see for yourself.
ISO #9: He's happy Maxous agrees with him, and there is this little gem:

So the question then becomes, is this post coming from frustrated town or scum trying to discredit their attacker?

Where does the 'frustated' part come from?

The frustratedpart comes from scum thinking you're scum. And now I may be a target in days to come (night or day), although I really should't be.

Does anybody else see what I'm seeing? That's scum attacking me as the likely mislynch, and attacking StefanB and DY for their votes and suspicions, with a connection pulled out of thin air (I was attacking StefanB and he was attacking me, that's bussing; I have a town read on DY and he doesn't have a scum read on me, that's scumpartner defending.)

Oh, and does anybody else not see what I'm not seeing? I'm talking about scumhunting from sageamagoo.

---

You say this but yet you will not explain how Muffin has been opportunistic when voting you.
There is a reason I have kept harping on about that. And it's not defending anyone.
I see no basis for saying that and suspect you simply fabricated it to attack him. This is not even a case of simply not agreeing with your reasoning, this is a case of seeing no reason that you beleived what you were saying.
Even if you said 'oh my mistake, he was'nt really' that would of been better. But instead you attacked me calling myself and Muffin scum together.
This implies you did'nt want to backtrack with the accusation. (because that prob would seem as scummier to most)

Look, I never said "Maxous and zMuffinMan must be scum together". I said I don't like the connection between the two of you, which is still miles away from "you're scum together".

You voted me saying "I'm gonna go with this" after a "zMuffinMan calls random people town/scum" post, and zMuffinMan votes me soon after. When I attack zMuffinMan for his vote, you defend him and attack me. Don't you think that's something to explore?

I currently have a weak town read on zMuffinMan, because he now actually seems to play the game. The reason I called him out for voting was that he made a wall post full of quotes by other players, explaining he doesn't have a single town read on the BS wagon (which I wasn't on), and concluding the post with

Anyway, my vote on whisper going nowhere fast.

unvote

VOTE: IceGuy

Basically, he said, "A, B, C, D, E, F are scummy. Vote: IceGuy". And that's what caught my eye.

---

I won't claim unless I'm at L-1 and somebody expresses intent to hammer. If I'm quickhammered without being asked for a claim first, you've got your lynch for Day 2.

[Magua]

ToastyToast replaces Magister Ludi

ToastyToast is also on V/LA until 10/9.

[ToastyToast]

hey all. Happy to replace Ludi. Unfortunately I'm going to be V/LA until Sunday, but I will catch up as soon as possible

[zMuffinMan]

Basically, he said, "A, B, C, D, E, F are scummy. Vote: IceGuy". And that's what caught my eye.

No I didn't.

Put your vote on Alabaska. Do it.

[zMuffinMan]

meh, at least you're putting effort in. sort of. even if I disagree with most of what you posted.

unvote

VOTE: Alabaska

This is a good wagon. Best case scenario: get rid of coasting scum. Worst case scenario: get rid of someone that looks like coasting scum.

3 days to make this happen.

We can do it.

[Ghostlin]

So many jokes have went over people's head in this game...
It is ironically funny.

Can IceGuy just claim now?
It's a waste of time to put him at L-1 first.
He is clearly the intended lynch.

Um...going to say 'no' here. First off, there's a segment of the town that still doesn't agree with you, remarkably, that IG is scum.

Two, we have the entire weekend, and I don't see what a premature claim would do at this point, particularly if we go in a different direction.

Three, it's never a waste of time to put someone at L-1 before you ask for a claim unless you're less than say, 12-24 from the deadline. This post reads like 'can we lynch IG so we can get the pretentsion of claiming over with so we can quicklynch him anyway?'

[zMuffinMan]

Hey, Ghsotlin, help me lynch Alabaska and I'll be your friend

[zMuffinMan]

Actually, keep your vote on sage. Alabaska/sage as competing wagons would be cool. Make it happen.

[Ghostlin]

Actually, keep your vote on sage. Alabaska/sage as competing wagons would be cool. Make it happen.

I'm remarkably ok with this idea. Everyone, either vote sage or Alabaska, particularly if you're on a subpar lynch (like Baby Spice).

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA as usual from 4pm EST today until Monday AM EST for weekend family duties.

Regarding Muffin’s ‘case’ on DarthYoshi at

467

– Muffin if you wanted to really take a dent out of my mild Town read on you mission accomplished. Darth is one of the few fairly solid Town reads I currently have. Hell, I’d go as far as to say that I think he has half the chance of flipping scum of any other Town read I have.

BBmolla earns serious scum-points for

468

from me.

@BB

– Are you an Espeonage alt perchance?

I agree with the general sentiment that StefanB’s reads at

471/473

are weak. His scum reads happen to completely coincide with the two most dominat wagons. Not a single scum mention outside Ice / Otolia.

@Stefan

– What are your reads on Alabaska and Jakalope?

Maxous appears to basically be active lurking with

480

and his other recent fare.

--

Liking and agreeing with Ghostlin on most stuff. Will re-read Sage, but am sheeping for now.

Unvote.
Vote: Sageamagoo

pedit: lol--yes and yes!

I looked through your ISO. Hmmm, why is there no mention of Sage before this post?

--

I'm likely not going to get a good grasp on this with the free time I have before deadline. I don't want to vote blindly though, so I'm likely going to remain non-voting until I get up to speed. If I get an unexpected time to read further, I'll be dedicating that time to here though.

Any and all vigs need to be pointed in this direction (or any killers wanting to claim a Town looking shot). There is absolutely no reason for a slot to not place a SINGLE serious vote during an entire day, especially one that actually goes to deadline.

--

Out of the top wagons, I'd probably vote Ieceguy over Otolia at the moment.

The time for mildly talking about moving your vote to a viable wagon is past Yos. That you've been this passive about pushing a scum candidate so far doesn't fill me to the brim with Townie vibes.

--

Otolia seems to be getting heat for one post only:

Since you are the most likely lynch at this juncture I’m going to reserve judgement on this post.

Ordinarily I would say that you don’t have any actual comprehension about the actual reasons Otolia was voted (namely that he had ZERO scum-hunting content and was actively lurking, his refusal to vote seriously and then placing a vote on someone he says he didn’t even think was scum) but given your impending flip I could certainly see this as a way to potentially forge a false link to a non-partner if you are indeed scum.

Defense is useless - I experienced it myself when I was the town wagon. Everything the wagoned player does is pressed into the framework of "he must be scum".

I don’t believe this from you at all.

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin if you wanted to really take a dent out of my mild Town read on you mission accomplished.

That was actually my sole goal. Actually, everything I've done in this game has been for the sole purpose of getting reactions from you. You are, after all, the only player that matters in this game full of plebs.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That was actually my sole goal. Actually, everything I've done in this game has been for the sole purpose of getting reactions from you. You are, after all, the only player that matters in this game full of plebs.

Aha ... 'wit' and 'sarcasm'. Noted.

[BBmolla]

@MoI: No I'm not.

[Ghostlin]

To continue with MoI's way of thinking, the following players are ok for any Vig shots or SKs trying to look town in addition as well: Etherial Cookie, BBMolla, Jak. These players all are fairly scummy or at the least looking while attempting to look busy.

[Ghostlin]

As for the disagreement about the case of DY that MoI pointed out--I acutally think Z's town because of it. It's not a huge case,

but frankly it answers the question I asked of another player roughly 50 posts ago

; and does so in a way I can see kinda where he's coming from, but I still like 376. Z's approaching it from a different angle. Agree with Alabaska wagon competing with sage wagon. Alabaska would be a good vig tonight as well, along with PV (I'm sorry to say that about someone who's so obviously sheeping my reads. ).

I have too many nulls where the player on the other end is obvnottrying.

MoI: should something happen to you tonight and killers don't choose to divest us of of some lurkers, who are your town and scum reads?

[StefanB]

Moi:
Alabaska can go. I am a bit wary of the Baby Spice wagon, because it has died. So Yos and Alabaska still beeing on it, is strange for both, but exspecially for Alabaska as he didn't have that strong suspicion of BS in 127.
The problem is my suspicion on Iceguy is nothink new, my suspicion on Otalia is nothing new. What I think about Sage is in 412.

Jakolope is in my opinion a bit to strange to be scum. Hell 361 is somethink that scum rearly post. (Post to piss everone of) Not anythink helpful but not a waggon I would join.

BBmola and Bogre should give us more (and Bogre less fluff about Cults)

DarthYoshi, Ghostlin, MoI, Muffin are at the moment in the don't lynch list, probably town.

DavidXanatos gets no comment, because that would have been not nice, whatever his aligment is.

EthernalCookie posts way not enough. 3 post with content, yes I understand why Ghostlin wanted to lynch him earlier.

Global is of course alway a bit under consideration because of his botch claim, but not getting much scumvibes there.

I will post reads about the rest tomorrow.
Yos is exspecially a player I should observe more, he is somethink that you always thinks logical, what he post makes sense, but he has been to long on a basicly dead wagon.

[Wraith]

Okay, sometime this weekend I will do a full reread. Minus my own modding this game will be my first priority.

[sageamagoo]

Haven't read this in a day or two... Need to catch up...

Quick thought on a few posts:

I'm skimming most of these walls.

@Ghostlin,

I don't get the maxous suspicion. He looks town. I'm following his thought processes and agree with pretty much everything he's written so far.

What do you think of Alabaska? I think he's scum, his posts are like "lol I'm coasting *COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAST*" and the whole "lol I totally agree IceGuy is scum" without voting IceGuy is weird.

Also I know you said not to ask, but why is Yoshi town? I think he's scum, nothing he's done has looked town, I don't understand the town read that you (and some others) have on him.

@IceGuy,

This will be like the tenth time you've been asked, so I'm beginning to think it's pointless repeating this, but why did you suggest that my vote on you was opportunistic and where's my ISO analysis like the ones you did in #357 for the other "opportunistic" voters?

Also don't really get the whole "circlejerk" thing since that's like 1 or 2 players on your wagon and has nothing to do with why I personally think you're scummy.

Yay! Similar suspicions are similar.

EBWOP x2: By the way, MoI, Sage is the new IG and Otolia. Join this wagon, I don't think you'll be that disappointed.

And Ghostlin is the new StephanB.

The frustratedpart comes from scum thinking you're scum. And now I may be a target in days to come (night or day), although I really should't be.

Scum don't think you're scum. They know who scum are.

Being worried about being a target shows an intense survival instinct. This is more likely due to come from scum, who's primary goal it is to survive. Townies, on the other hand, are more interested in lynching others than being shot, or being lynched themselves.

Whispersilk brings a good point up about sorgster: he voted Ludi for fluff, but essentially hadn't anything else himself?

UNVOTE: VOTE: SAGEAMAGOO

This is probably the most intelligent post you've posted all game--although I was surprised to see you were still part of the game, Bogre.

Regardless, Sage, I'm not going to continue to prod for a response when you continue to dodge my question.

Unvote.

Vote: Sage

For the following reasons:
1) You associate two people: IceGuy and DarthYoshi as scum together without having an individual reason for both. When asked WHY DY was scum, you've continually refused to answer. I'm forced to assume that you wish to set up two people as scum together for mislynch reasons. Day 1 is too early for associative scumtells and as I've pointed out, scum usually don't (but sometimes rarely do) buddy other scum.
2) You've not answered mine or Maxous question. Either you're not paying attention to the game or you're ignoring us. Not very protown.
3) I hate the post where you say you'll be a target of votes or night actions. Good town members learn not to care about it; mostly because scum will probably kill the most protown players as the game wears on and scumhunting contributions are much more important than any PR you might have (yes, even sane Cop).
4) Dislike #381. DarthYoshi's #318 and 376 are not cognitive dissonance, but you present them that way.

1) Honestly... because he votedme? Seriously, if someone's on to me, I considr them scum. But I think everyone's scum so... y'know...
2) Please repost so I can find them through this mess?
3) Not in this particular setup. Scum's first priority would be to find the scummiest player not on their side, correct? I have a fear of being killed day/night one because of the large number of scum likely to live among us. Ghosty, chances are good that you're one of 'em. I am willing to claim, but will not until my wagon gets worse.
4) Please read my ISO, followed by the whole of both posts FMPoV, then re-read #381. I should have left in the whole thing, but I took what I thought was the "important" part of the posts, which was a bad idea.

DY: Why has the waggon considering of IceGuy and Otalia anythink to do with a read?

About Sage: well Newbie that is easy to misread.
Scummy, strange:
Her reads in post zero. Well the scumreads on MoI, ML and Muffin, of which 2 have not really been explained. (Whatever you think about her push on MOI I will count that one as explained)
The Whisperthink is okay imho, explained.
Her style argument: Well I find it bad to use personality as part of your scumtells. Like Meta only works if you know the person really well.
Calling Whisper unimportant is argh, trying to end a point of acusion quickly.
The Busingthink before a flip is not a good argument.
Here DarthYoshi argument: First part DartYoshi is attacking me, I didn't find it, don't remember a post by him that was an attack on me.
Second the reads: Would wait after the flip to see what they are worth.
To afraid of everyone.
The beeing afraid of becoming a target. Well the only nightaction town should be afraid of is a vig. Becoming a target otherwise (cop) is showing that you didn't play as good as you could, but not somethink to be afraid of. (Same for Tracker) There are also nightaction that would be good to get a target from. I know I repeated a lot, but I thought repeating the case completly would be helpful.

I am afraid of scum killing me aswell as vigs destroying me. My posts

have

been scummy, which is why I'm worried. It's honestly better for everyone if the scum just kill eachother. I haven't played online for long, and if that kills me, it's sad. I only want to help us, but I hardly have a chance to do so if I die day/night one. I'm almost finished my first game, and so I'll let you look over that and see the differences beetween my gameplay in that and in this game.

@everyone: Please rethink you're votes on me. I'm not scum. Mafia/werewolf members should listen to me too, for everyone's sake.

Thank you.

[Oversoul]

Wedding is delayed. I will make the post tomorrow.

Just something to say (MoI asked this question), I actually think Defense from a lynch candidate is a town tell because it often does lead to lynches regardless. Scum are more likely to push suspicion onto someone else.