Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[Katty Bard]

confarm~.

[Katty Bard]

VOTE: Uphill

And why is that?

[Katty Bard]

shh let him bus his buddies first

also, I chuckled at "fuckmuffins."

[Katty Bard]

also, random lynches (and policy lynches especially) are bad, you rarely learn anything. More often than not, randomlynching hits a townie and is driven by scum + sheeptown who don't want to no-lynch.

Unless, of course, said scum is clumsy-herpin', in which case it's not random and scum gets lynched

[Katty Bard]

lol you're just reaching now. My post was designed to explain to the masses why you are scum.

[Katty Bard]

Uphill is town.

how come? Still not satisfied with soben vote.

[Katty Bard]

UNVOTE:

I've had a migraine all day, so this is going to be very brief and incomplete.

In the current climate, my vote is indeed terrible. My reasoning was that he just straight-up said, "I'm trying to get this person lynched." That doesn't translate into RvS OR generating discussion to me, so I didn't like it. And, as somebody already speculated (sorry, I forget who it was in my skim-through) at the time it was all I had. When I feel better, I'll read deeper into the game and provide a stronger defense than this.

Also, the hypothesis that I'm a semi-weak player but with SOME experience is correct. I've completed a whopping three games off-site and am currently in a fourth.

[Katty Bard]

@el simo: So, explaining my reasoning, however bad it was = defending my vote? My vote was for what I percieved as Uphill trying to push a random lynch. And yes, I know this was poorly explained the first couple of times around. So let me try again.

At the beginning:
Uphill- *places vote*
Time- Why?
Uphill- I'm trying to get them lynched.
Me- Why are you trying to get them lynched? *vote*

Later:
"I voted for him because he looked like he was pushing a random lynch. Didn't like. However, now there's more to go on from more people, so I'll reread when I get a chance , and place a vote that actually has good reasoning."

And this is inconsistent how?

----

bionicchop2-
iso #8: What made you feel that your vote for SH would provide more information than a vote for Timeater?
His isos (1, 2, 18) make good points against trez; I'll see how I feel about him after I go through his iso.
As well as DH (iso #12). I've seen bussing-comments from both town and mafia, so from my perspective the point is null. However, it is something to think about...if you want to call me out for that, you should call DH out for it too.
BC leans town.

DemonHybrid-
I somewhat understand where you're coming from on a me-town read, but your insistance on it doesn't exactly leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Iso # 3, 6: This stuck out to me as a tad jumpy. He changes votes in 3 from timeater to treznor (for RVing amidst serious discussion), and explains in the same post why timeater's 22 is bad. Then, in iso #6 says timeater's push on trez "doesn't look any more town." With a vote still on trez. Where's this jump in voting logic, DH? There's nothing about trez in these posts.
I realize he's on V/LA, so I'll pull this up when he gets back.
For now he gets a null-questionable.

el simo-
ISO #1: Yes, I just reread it and facepalmed.
Iso #8 is either a misrep or a misunderstanding. See the top of my post.
If you continue to push this point, I will view it as a misrep, as I cannot see how anyone can misunderstand my above explanation.
For now, though, I'll chalk it up to misunderstanding and we'll go from there. Null.

Gen_Wolf-
I need to see more from him to develop a read.

Odysseus-
Iso #4: The aggression -> townpoints for Uphill is a good point. It's also something that often trips me up, especially on D1. I tend to misread it as scummy. Now that I've made this mistake more than once and am getting burned by it, hopefully I'll learn. Iso #11 reenforces this.
Iso #5, Point 1: I didn't even think of it as sheeptown until I started reading ISOs. That makes more sense.
Iso #17: Do you not think self-meta is scummy?
Iso #19: At the point you posted this, DH had given not-scum reasons on me in (#34, #127)...although the join-date reasoning is NOT a good one).
I really like the time, detail, and thought you put into your posts.
For the record, I don't feel that faking double-voter is suspicious, and I never said anything because, well, I didn't think you actually WERE a double-voter xD
Odysseus reads town.

I'll finish my ISOs when I get back from work. I also apologize for lack of linkage; finding them will take more time than I currently have, and I wanted to put at least something out there.

[Katty Bard]

I have a question for pretty much everyone: Why do you think trez isn't reading and which fucking alignment would do this?

Hmm. I feel like, if he were mafia, his buddies would be getting after him to pay more attention. He DOES seem more attentive now, though. Also, I just don't quite get the vibe that he's lazy town. It's about half-and-half between gut and various contradictions he's made that have been pointed out.
Another thing. If he continue(d) to not read or pay attention, he'd be a liability to his faction. Anyone, town or mafia, could point out his mistakes and push him for an easy lynch.

Does this mean she agrees with me on them? Would self-incrimination tell apply here?

Katty: If you were in my position, would you have pushed on yourself as I did?

While I like your attention to detail, and understand your points against me, that doesn't mean I agree with all of them.
I would have pushed what I said, sure, but not to the degree you did.

iso #8: What made you feel that your vote for SH would provide more information than a vote for Timeater?
His isos (1, 2, 18) make good points against trez; I'll see how I feel about him after I go through his iso.

Because people were discussing timeater, nobody was discussing SH.

I don't see where SH makes good points against treznor. He doesn't have 18 posts, so I don't know which isos you are referencing. Please directly quote what you felt was a good case at the time I switched my vote to SH.

Ooh, interesting.
I was referencing your ISO and I'll quote the points when I get a chance. Likely within my in-context cross-reference read...thingy.

--------
ISOs, Part Two~

redtail-
I get a lot of deja vu in reading his content, so I'll be contextualizing everything he's said. I did notice some other players stating him as a sheep-read.

ScreamingHawk-
Between Iso #7 and #9... First, he says trez is null-town, then just suddenly switches to saying trez is his scummiest read; on top of that, the things SH remarks are scummy are things that happened in the early game. So things that would have happened BEFORE iso 7.
Basically, the thought process here looks like this: "merrr, I dunno about this, don't want to incriminate him yet" -> "oh look, odysseus pointed out a mistake he made" -> "SCUM SCUM YOU WERE ALWAYS SCUM"
what.
Iso #10: I still don't understand why Oddy would be on the chopping block if I were scum...
Yeah, this dude is probably mafia.

Soben-
I like him. The directness here reads as very town.
re:

I'm actually feeling slightly better about Katty after her recent post though I despise the playstyle of scumhunting purely through ISO's than reading the thread as a whole and actually have found that merely reading and judging people via their ISOs is something scum tend to do more often than not.

As I've stated earlier I fully intend to read this game in proper context, as well. I just like to cross-reference through ISOs. I find it helps me find my footing when a game is this active.

Timeater/FS-
Timeater was weird, but relatively consistent. FS' catchup post leans town, but I need more from him to be sure(r).

treznor-
It's pretty apparent that this guy has been clueless from the start.
ISOs (2,4) Defending RVS vote is weird. Except in 4 you say it's not a random vote...but then go on to describe your reasoning, which basically fits that of a random vote.
Here he basically admits he's sheeping Odysseus' SH read. I don't like it.
He never mentioned Timeater until here. And suddenly he's suspicious, and the new guy can't exactly speak for his predecessor. This reads as opportunistic.
I have a lean-scum read on him, but not as strong as the one on SH. People seem to be more divided on their reads of trez, though, so perhaps he would be a more informative lynch?

Uphill-
His first 7 posts still read weird to me! I don't necessarily think he's scum, but a;dsljgf. Difference in playstyles I guess?
His case on BC, though, consists of a single point that I don't agree with. Not wanting to cause unnecessary distraction isn't really the same as "[letting] everyone else fight [his] battles".
Iunno. If it weren't for that I'd have him as a townread, null-town at least. But for now he's a solid null.

Yonzy-
iso #2 basically is sheeping everyone else's Soben read. His other reads, though, seem to go against the grain (particularly for myself, redtail, Time, and Uphill).
Although, I don't agree that redtail necessarily OVERthought his posts. Also, I'm a girl.
iso #3- I don't really see Uphill's posts in that light anymore. Also, 25 isn't a scumtell.
re: FS- Yeah I don't see it that way.
re: re: Odysseus- ...what?

iso #4 re: Uphill- so, would you rather he post fluff instead of not saying anything? I'm sorry, I just don't follow this.

I like that (for the most part) he thinks for himself, but his logic is strange in a lot of places. Leans town for now, as I don't see mafia posting reads against the popular opinion of the town THAT many times.

-------

tl;dr here's my leaning-scum to scum reads, in order-
treznor (even though the early-game inattentiveness is possible from lazy town, I can't say I have that vibe), DemonHybrid (still questionable/makes me feel even more uneasy), ScreamingHawk.
Everyone else is null, town, thereabouts. I am most comfortable with an SH lynch, but would be accepting of a trez one. And I need to see what DH has to say about the jumpiness I've previously mentioned.

All that other stuff I said I'd do, I've made a list and will take care of that either tonight or tomorrow. Also, I'll place a new vote (likely on SH) when I feel the time is right...that time ain't now.

[Katty Bard]

blah, it's been so hard to keep up with this game. It's about as active as my last MASSIVE game. As in, 45 players. so major "oh my god" and kudos.
I'll have a more meaningful post in a couple hours.

[Katty Bard]

I'm not seeing redtail-sheep anymore, as I'm reading. I don’t quite understand why others are.

For BC 1 2 18; good reason for vote placement at the time, but worry about him later. I just realized I’d never gotten around to what you asked of me x)

Perhaps its just me an my math/engineering background, but random to me is just that. Random. No stated reason, and not even the possibility of a stated reason. My vote on el simo was because we ran into each other in the prior game and I thought it would be a humorous way to acknowledge that. I'm used to people being quite alright with that early in the game.

Yeah, early random voting is fine. My problem isn't that you randomly voted; my problem was that you defended your random/meaningless/etc vote.

I have stated that Odysseus is my strongest town read (as I think he is for a number of people in the game). If the thinking of your strong town reads doesn't influence your own thinking, I'm not sure what to say. I definitely strongly consider the points of my strong town reads to determine whether or not they match my thinking.

First off, it is good to notice when you match your townreads' thoughts. But the wording of your post read a lot like, "Oh, my town ally says he's scum, so I think he's scum."

Question for everyone: DH said he'd be back soon, don't you think we should wait for him to catch up and give some reads before we lynch SH?

Yes, please. He makes me feel squirmy and I need more information from him.

@Trez 272 I'm not voting him YET, because I need to see more from DH, as he's still at null-questionable.

SH, who were you planning on Jailing?

Why would you ask that? IMO finding that out may do more harm than good.


This post is awful and makes no sense.
This post does not actually give me the impression that Uphill knows SH is town.
I don't believe the claim either.

[Katty Bard]

So i don't feel any better about DH after seeing his reads and would be comfortable lynching him today.

Taking what I've learned about a similar player offsite, I don't think Uphill is scum.

In response to this,
1. I'm reasonably certain that my wagon did not take off because scum (DH) was trying to derail it for towncred.
2. That post by SH was awful; it excluded several people {BC, DH, el simo, Gen, myself, Uphill, Yonzy}. That's more than half the player list.
3. I didn't vote because I was mulling over DH's reads after he posted them; I came back after class the next day and el simo had hammered already.
With this in mind, I could see simo + red working together using his hammer to make me look bad.

Gen still reads null, I can't really take anything from what he's said. Yonzy still leans town based on his difference in reads, but since a couple people seem to think he's scum, I'll look at him again and see if I see what you see.

In case you hadn't noticed, redtail, once I was back to being active the SH wagon was at L-1 for the majority of the day. Didn't want to quickhammer.
Also, I'm scum for agreeing with people? And did I not ask questions yesterday? Did I not link to new material and say, "hey, this is weird!" I'm not saying my posts are amazing and groundbreaking, but you can't really say that all I gave were reads.

I will agree that SH not mentioning me until I made a case on him was very weird, and was a large factor in my read on him.

hmm. Back to the whole quickhammering-deadline thing. There were six days left in deadline. Is it typical, on mafiascum, to end a day that early? I felt there could still be some discussion generated. (also it's sort of become sitewide meta on my offsite forum to hammer day of or day before deadline to generate as much discussion as possible- particularly in the early stages of the game, so I'm not really used to seeing a D1 hammer six days before deadline.) If it is part of site meta to hammer that early then el simo may possibly be town and redtail is possible scum taking advantage of the hammer.

After seeing 337, redtail's slinking into my scum-reads, so I'll hold my vote for a little while.

[Katty Bard]

EBWOP- point on SH. Extra to growing case.

[Katty Bard]

ugh. I'm sorry guys. I have had zero incentive to play this game at all. All I can do is claim vanilla townie and try to get back with this game.

[Katty Bard]

Re: Oddy #340 ...IIRC, DH was frantically decrying me as town yesterday. Also, I'm not sure anymore how I feel about simo as an individual...him being mafia would make me look at Red for the reason I said, but Red being mafia doesn't make simo anything.
I felt like his case was opportunistic and dependent on things beyond my control. 333 in particular has little to nothing to do with my own actions. This part-

Meanwhile, Katty continued to call SH scum and not vote for him. Also: all of her reads are very safe, mimicking those of you or Odysseus. The biggest risk she ever takes is "I'm not seeing redtail sheep anymore." Everything is very standard and vanilla. And all she gives are reads.

is the only part of his case on me, by the time I'd made my last post, that I actually have control over.

3. On page 10 when you said "yeah, this dude's probably mafia," SH was at L-2. You could have voted for him (or anybody) then, but didn't. Why?

I answered this already. I did not want to let a quickhammer happen.

...was that hammer? Do I need to reread this game after all? I feel really detached from it anyway. :/
I read everything from page like...15 on and I'm just not picking up anything. I'm sorry. I'm the most useless townie in the game. Better luck to me next time and good luck town.

[Katty Bard]

too laaaate. I hope to hell I perform better next time. I AM BETTER THAN THIS I SWEAR

[Katty Bard]

I'm having trouble seeing Yonzy, still. But again, detachment. YOU CAN DO EET

[Katty Bard]

EBWOP oh dear god you guys have the creepy smilies too. CHANGE THAT TO A

[Katty Bard]

EBWOTP THAT'S EVEN WORSE. okay I'm done I guesss.

[Katty Bard]

I thank you.

[Katty Bard]

It's okay, it's only a game...that I performed abysmally in. I knew my lynch was inevitable from mid-day1.

[Katty Bard]

It's okay, it's only a game...that I performed abysmally in. I knew my lynch was inevitable from mid-day1.

Surrsly guys, it's okay. (Actually, now that I'm thinking about it I was wondering how I was going to balance this game, my other game, and a humongous take-home final for generative syntax- ouch.)

[Katty Bard]

oh what town won already
yay~