Mini320: Urban Legends Mafia is over!

[Yosarian2]

Good morning all.

vote:ziliu

[Yosarian2]

If everyone is voting for the person above them, then I'd better not post again!

OH WAI...

[Yosarian2]

They say that Mercury is the hottest planet in our solar system. Is that true or false? Just wondering.

False. The surface of Venus is actually much hotter then the surface of Mercury, because of the greenhouse effect.

(cue "The More You Know" music)

[Yosarian2]

Does this post not scream scum to anyone else? I mean, if nothing else, congratulating the protection role like that...

I didn't say "WTG, protection role! Now, why don't you tell us all who you are? C'mon, it'll make you feel a

lot

better to get that off your chest!"

No, but saying "good job, doc" is one of Jeep's classic scum tells, for the people who believe in such things.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...looks like my vote is in the right place already.

[Yosarian2]

Vote:Help Im A Bug

I get the ball rolling for today.

vote:Der Hammer

for voting for a good guy and not giving any reason behind his vote other then he wanted to "get the ball rolling".

[Yosarian2]

It's cool, town, vote me. I'm no scum, but I am expendable.

(shakes head)

Why do people say stuff like that?

I didn't really think the argumetn against you was that strong, but why would you suddenly claim to have a weak role and call yourself "expendable" like that? It's just not good for the town when people do that.

[Yosarian2]

At this point, I'm more then willing to follow a "role-based hunch" from a confirmed good guy, until I have a reason not to.

vote:audacesiuvat

Help I'm A Bug: It's completly up to you, but at this point, you are unfortunatly likely to die tonight, as you're a confirmed innocent and all; if you have any role-based info that you think would help the town, it might be a good idea to share it before the end of the day.

[Yosarian2]

That should have been

unvote

.

vote:audacesiuvat

[Yosarian2]

At this point, BrizzyBoi, it's probably best if you hold any innocent results until the doctor is dead, unless that person is about to get lynched. So long as the doctor is alive, you can assume you'll probably survive, and can reveal the results at a better time later.

[Yosarian2]

I doubt it, my impression of my role is that my message is just forwarded to the player through the mod with no editorializing. Anybody who is receiving my phone calls would have to take my word that I am innocent. But how often do scum get to send messages to non-scum players during night?

Actually, I've seen that "postman" ability, or variants of it, on both scum and pro-town roles.

[Yosarian2]

On the other hand, if Help I'm a Bug thinks his role-based hint was wrong, then

unvote

. He's not confirmed, but HIAB's hunch was the only reason I was voting for him, so...

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Well, if the only reason you want to lynch audacesiuvat is because you don't believe his "three-shot mason claim" considering it didn't seem to work last night for whatever reason, I wonder if the logical thing to do might be to wait another night and see if he can confirm his ability tonight or not.

[Yosarian2]

Unvote

If he was RBd, we should give him another night to prove himself.

Vote audacesiuvat [/b]

What???

vote:bluesoul

If audacesivat was roleblocked, then all we have to do is wait a night and he can prove his role tonight. As you said. I don't see any reason to lynch him now. So why would suddenly contradict yourself and change your mind without giving a reason just as the bandwagon speeds towards a lynch?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, Broomhead is pretty clearly wrong here.

Still, at the moment, the most suspicious thing I've seen is the way Bluesoul has been jumping back and forth on the audacesiuvat issue all day, contradicting himself at least once, so I think I'll keep my vote there for the moment.

[Yosarian2]

fine, i can see that everyone else wants the results held as well. touche.

Basically,I've seen more then one of these minis get won by the town simply because of a cofirmed cop and two or three other confirmed innocents, all revealed at once, at a point when they together form enough of a pro-town voting block so that the town can not lose. So, I generally think it's best to hold back innocent results so long as is practical. There are exceptions, but I don't see how this is one of them right now.

[Yosarian2]

Also, when we were still looking at aud as the lynch, blue flat contradicted himself, which I didn't like. I think Yos said something about it, come to think.

Keep on following opinion, there. You and Yosarian should get a room. (Not inferring that this is any of Yosarian's doing, but you've pretty much been mindlessly agreeing with him.)

The problem is, no one has much to go on at this point. The only two possible scum tells we're discussing at this point are you jumping on and off the bandwagon, and broomhead suggesting a plan of action that seems to be not good for the town. In my opinion, those are both somewhat weak tells, but no one has come up with anything better, and there has not been all that much discussion yet this game considering it's day 2.

If you want to avoid being lynched, the best suggestion I have for you is to try to generate some more content, perhaps try find a better lynch target for today.

[Yosarian2]

Honestly, I'm not all that happy with my vote. Bluesoul did looked a little scummy, but I wish I had something better to go on; at the moment, though, his self-contradiction is the only thing I've seen that really looks like a scum tell to me.

[Yosarian2]

I like my vote. Yosarian, Broomheads antitown-ideas dont look like scumtell to you?

Eh...it's hard to tell, but it dosn't seem like much of a scum tell to me. His suggestion that the cop reveal innocent results would not be good for the town, in my opinion; but based on his posts, it seems just as likely that he simply either didn't understand or didn't agree with the stratigic reasons why it's sometimes better for cops to hold their innocent investigations. Intentionally suggesting a clearly bad stratagy is a fairly risky play for scum, and in this case any pay-off for the scum wouldn't happen until tommorow at best, and possibly not even then. If anything, if a scum wanted to trick a cop into revealing innocent investigations in a situation where the cop probably shouldn't do that, I would expect the scum to try that when the cop was already holding back an innocent investigation or two, not to spend so much time arguing about it in a situation where it's pretty much hypothetical.

That's not to say Broomhead is not scum, of course. I think he didn't fully understand the implications of what he was suggesting, but that's not evidence he's town. I just don't think I have any good reason to believe he's any more likely to be scum then any other random person.

[Yosarian2]

Hmm...three posts today...

NOT ENOUGH!!!

Deadline--Tuesday the 23rd of May.

This deadline may be withdrawn if people choose to talk. The person who has the most votes on Tuesday when I get around to checking this thread will be lynched. In the case of a tie, there will be no lynch. Hurry it up.

So, why isn't everyone posting more???

fos:everyone who's not posting more right now

. Only scum would want a deadline.

[Yosarian2]

Because there is nothing to post about?

Dosn't matter. If you agree with me that a deadline at this point is bad for the town, then everyone who wants to help the town win should be posting much and often to avoid a deadline. Anyone who is not, therefore, is suspicious.

[Yosarian2]

well i am afriad that, you've left me no choice but to claim, thus saving you from lynching the wrong person in the day but i will envitable die tonight. i will be watching for everyone who logs onto this site but does not unvote me. there is the chance that i am lying, but i will not be counter claimed.

You've just told the scum to kill you, without giving the town anything useful. Great. This kind of "you DON'T want me to claim" post always looks really scummy to me, and I'm now considering switching my vote over to you.

At this point you might as well claim.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...john wayne, huh?

I have trouble beliving this claim. I don't see how john wayne fits into the theme, and why would scum "inevitably" kill a vig? I wouldn't consider that a high-priority target, personally.

[Yosarian2]

Not buying this.

vote:broomhead

[Yosarian2]

So...we're at lynch -1, then?

[Yosarian2]

By the way, Broomhead, you didn't answer my other question.

...why would scum "inevitably" kill a vig? I wouldn't consider that a high-priority target, personally.

You said that if you claimed, you'd inevitably die tonight, but that seems to not agree with your eventual claim. Why would you think that you would die tonight if you claimed vig?

[Yosarian2]

vote:broomhead

[Yosarian2]

Actually, I believe aud. I expected Brizboi to be alive today too, so if he is real, Briz was a logical choice, OTOH if he is scum Briz is highly illogical, as a protection would have been expeted.

But of course if aud is lying, he could have just planned to claim that he sent the note to whomever died last night.

Still, his story does make good sense. (shrug) Dosn't really convince me he's town or convince me he's scum.

[Yosarian2]

But of course if aud is lying, he could have just planned to claim that he sent the note to whomever died last night.

But that would imply that he is a badguy different from the mafia. I only see 1 NK. He could be some sort of cult tough, but then why not just recruit someone who would have supported his claim?

Huh?

Why would it imply anything of the sort?

I was just saying that if (for some reason) he was scum who claimed to have an ability he didn't actually have, the logical thing to do would be to say "Oh, I tried to send the message to X last night, it's a shame he died." I don't think that's the most likely possibility, though, as it'd be an odd fake claim for a scum to make.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I honestly never really disbieleved his ability anyway, because that's be a pretty irratioanl claim to make if you didn't think you'd be able to back it up. The ability could be scum or town, either is possible and I've seen both, but I see no specific reason to suspect him at the monent.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I'm still playing

[Yosarian2]

bluesoul
-Bluesoul, unfortunately, is either the doc or he is mafia.

I'll ignore the fact that you voted for me with basically no logic behind it for the moment; because this statement is just bizzare and seems even more noteworthy at the moment. First of all, why are you speculating on the identity of the doc right now? That seems terribly anti-town to me; that line seems specifically designed to try and get a reaction out of the doctor (because if the doctor is not bluesoul, and he takes your statement at face value, he'd attack bluesoul right now) and/or to get either a "I'm the doc" or "I'm not the doc" statement out of Bluesoul. Secondly, where you do get that strange "either/or" statement from in the first place? Why would you assume that bluesoul is either the doc or is mafia?

More generally, what I get out of your post is this:

A. The only thing we know is the HIAB is a confirmed innocent.

B. Therefore, the 2/3 of Der Hammer, visMaior, or Yosarian is mafia and Bluesoul is the doc.

Um, care to explain some of the "logic" you used to get from point A to point B?

[Yosarian2]

If I have, in fact, outed the doctor then it was out of rustiness and studpidity (from not having played a game in awhile) as opposed to scumminess.

Are you going to explain how you came to any of those odd conclusions?

[Yosarian2]

Well, you can't necessarally read too much into the choice of doc protections and such; it's quite possible the doc just assumed the cop wouldn't get targeted and so decided to try and outguess the scum.

[Yosarian2]

By the way, Bluesoul, there's no need for you to claim doc or not doc at this time. I wish Scaleband hadn't said that he thought you were the doc; I wouldn't have pressed him for more information on the subject if I had thought he had role-based information behind it (I thought he was just scum spinning BS to try and fish for a doctor). If you know your ability was not randomized last night and that Scalebane is lying, go ahead and claim that, but otherwise, we don't need to know your role at this time, I think.

[Yosarian2]

Alright, time for my standard:
The Lurker List:

Der Hammer: Yeah, he made a "I'm still here, been busy" post, but that's all he said all day. Needs to say more.

armlx: posted when he first replaced in, but has not posted for a week.

Sentinel99: His last post was "is anyone still in?, 10 days ago" His last post with any content was june 6, 12 days ago.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, nothing better to do, and the game's ground to a halt, so I'll

vote:armlx

. When in doubt, lynch a lurker.

[Yosarian2]

Alright, good point.

unvote

. COmpletly forgot about that.

[Yosarian2]

Moving on down the lurker list,

vote:Der Hammer

. He promised he'd post more soon last Thursday. He has not.

[Yosarian2]

Sorry, IRL'ed.

Given bluesoul's last statement, I'm inclinced to

Vote Bluesoul

. There is no situation where a claim doesn't help the town when the individual in question is slated for a lynch.

Um...huh? Bluesoul is not currently slated for a lynch. And he only had 2 votes when he said that he "wasn't going to claim. Not now, anyway." Do you really think he's suspicious for not claiming when he had 2 votes on him?

[Yosarian2]

I got no message. Also, how does being unlynchable make somebody auto townie? What kinds of roles are normally unlynchable? Also, maybe it was only a one time thing or something. I think that we should give it another shot and see what happens.

I've only seen unlynchable (or immune to one lynch) a few times, and all of those times, they've been a townie. An unlynchable role could be scum, but that seems like it could be unblanaced; if there were three people left, and one was a scum who would survive the first lynch, the town can't possible win.

About the whole der hammer thing, it sounds like there's a role redirector messing with stuff. Der hammer got the note and Sentinal didn't, and there's no logical reason for either of them to lie about it. Role redirectors can either be town or scum (a scum role re-directers is sometimes called a witch).

[Yosarian2]

What? Where did that come from?

[Yosarian2]

Actually, I see what you're saying, narrowing it down at this point is probably a good idea.

People who have had their role confirmed:

Bluesoul: confirmed as a unlynchable. Probable good guy.

Scalebane: Role randomiser, confirmed. Often, but not always, a good guy role.

audacesiuvat: Message sender, confirmed. Often, but not always, a good guy role.

Armlx (replacing help I'm a bug):confirmed innocent, multiple ways, including by cop investigation.

Sentinel99: Claimed mason, "farmer's wife". The breadcrumb was pretty convincing to me, and I believe his claim.


Now, the non-confirmed people, and the notes I have on them:

VisMaior: Voted for Broomhead, audacesiuvat, bluesoul, armlx, der hammer, and me.

Der Hammer: Lurked for a while, until called out on it. Bad voting record, pushed the broomhead and bluesoul lynches. Got the message last night, but of course that proves nothing; I'm sure audacesiuvat can send messages to scum as well as to good guys.


And me, of course. (didn't take notes on myself )

I think Der hammer is probably scum. I was suspicious of him yesterday. As for the third scum, it's probably either Vis or one of the two people with confirmed roles but not confirmed alignments (scalebane or audacesiuvat).

vote:Der Hammer

[Yosarian2]

I don't think Der Hammer is scum. He wouldn't have claimed aud's message if he were, IMO. I wouldn't if I were scum. Think about it, aud claims to have messaged me, and I wouldn't have gotten anything, which would make aud the play for the day.

But he didn't know that. When Hammer claimed, he had every reason to assume that aud had sent the message to him, putting him in a position where he would eventually have to either confirm aud's claim, or lie about getting the message and probably get lynched eventually when the lie was found out (perhaps after aud's death). Claiming early costs him nothing, and made him look more pro-town. So, at the point he claimed, claiming he got the message would be the logical thing for anyone to do, scum or town. It proves nothing.

[Yosarian2]

I have no problem claiming but this "evidence" from Yosarian is pretty awful. I have not pushed for any lynchs.

Vote:Yosarian

You were voting for both of them. The fact that you joined both bad bandwagons (Assuming bluesoul is town, which I think he is) is a point against you. But yeah, I never claimed to have solid proof against you; it's simple process of elimination at this point. If there are 3 scum, then through process of elimination the odds are high that you one of them, so I am voting for you.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, out of the few posts you have made, Der Hammer, three of them were attacking Broomhead; you voted for him twice, and had another short post saying you didn't believe his claim. How can you say you were not pushing for his lynch?

[Yosarian2]

Where the heck is everyone?

[Yosarian2]

Hmm. That does drop the odds a bit of der hammer being scum.

Still, the only people who are not at least mostly confirmed at this point are vismajor, der hammer, me, and Scalebane. (Scalebane's role is confirmed, but it might be a BG role. The same is true of Aud, but he's very unlikely to be scum based on the way his role has played out, IMHO).

There are probably 2 scum left, and we have 3 lynches left. If I need to, I will claim, and when I do that should rule me out as possible scum which should ensure a town win (3 possible scum, 3 lynches left= town win). I'd rather wait until tommorow to claim, but if I have to claim today, I will, and the town should win unless something unexpected goes wrong (or unless people lynch me without giving me a chance to claim).

[Yosarian2]

Heh...I wonder if he thinks he's dead in this game.

[Yosarian2]

To be clear, if we get hit with a deadline, I'll throw a vote on whichever of the three people I consider possible scum (der hammer, Vismaior, or Scalebane) looks closest to a lynch. We should win here, so long as we don't do something silly like fail to lynch one day.

[Yosarian2]

Sure, I'd like to hear a claim from der hammer.

[Yosarian2]

As of last night I have no powers

Ok. What powers did you have? Rolename?

If you have no powers, why would you claim that but not claim completly?

[Yosarian2]

Im a daredevil, I don't have a name but im a kind of evil knievel figure?

Ok. What powers did you have?

[Yosarian2]

I think it's pretty well accepted that we can reduce our potential scum candidates to four, those being Der Hammer, Scalebane, VisMaior, and Yosarian.

I should point out, for the sake of being thorough, that you are the 5th person who's not totally 100% confirmed pro-town; your ability is confirmed, but your alighnment is not.

There is enough other evidence that I think it is unlikely you're scum, however.

About Der Hammer's claim...it's interesting, but there's no real proof of it. There was another time there was a tie, and one of the two names was in red, and if der hammer is telling the truth about having "no powers as of last night" he can't have been involved in this one.

OFFICIAL VOTECOUNT

Yosarian--1(VisMaior)

Scalebane--2(audacesiuvat, bluesoul)

Der Hammer--2(Yosarian2, Scalebane)

Eight alive, five to lynch.

I'm not sure exactally how the mod picks which name is in red, though.

mod:in the event of a tie, either at deadline or during a votecount, how do you pick which name is highlighted in red?

[Yosarian2]

What you're missing, though, Yosarian, is the fact that the mod edited that post later at my request. as he'd missed my vote for Der Hammer.

Ah, that's a good point. I had missed that.

[Yosarian2]

All I'm asking is for you guys to be willing to eat crow when I turn up innocent and exactly what I claimed.

The thing that's really throwing me off is that you're defending der hammer in a really convincing way, and I can't imagine any possible way you could both be town. If he's town, I can't see how you could be anything but scum, unless there's something unlikely like audacesiuvat being scum, which I really doubt.

[Yosarian2]

OFFICIAL VOTECOUNT

Yosarian--1(VisMaior)

Scalebane--3(audacesiuvat, bluesoul, Der Hammer)

Der Hammer--3(Yosarian2, Scalebane, armlx)

Eight alive, five to lynch.

Sorry for the mistake earlier. The red vote is the person who will be lynched at deadline. It's simply the person with the most votes. Thanks for assistance, all.

And if two people are tied at 3, how do you decide who is highlighted in red/lynched at deadline? Is it the person who reached 3 votes first?

[Yosarian2]

Well, I'd like to hear why he decided to use his power night one. Mostly right now, I'm waiting to see if the mod will clarify when he uses the red type and when he dosn't, as that's the only thing that's even close to evidence on Der Hammer's side.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, that basically locks it up. I think Der Hammer and Vismajor are the scum.

Would you guys like me to claim today, in order to eliminate me as a suspect in your mind?

[Yosarian2]

Of course you do, vismaior, as i'm pretty sure you're the other scum.

Still, I would like to hear the flavor behind this sudden one-shot-cop thing.

[Yosarian2]

Interesting. So Der hammer is probably actually a vote manipulater, then.

So, the question I'm trying to figure out now is, which role seems more unlikely to be a scum role...bluesoul the unlynchable, or der hammer the vote manipulater?

Hmm...I'm not sure. I'm tempted to just think that whichever one of the two of them is scum, vismajor must be his partner and therefore should be the lynch today, but I'm going to think about this before I place any votes today.

[Yosarian2]

Except that dosn't make any sense. If he really was a scum with a 2 shot vote manipulation role, he clearly would have saved at least 1 of them for a lynch or lose situation where it could win the game for the scum. So either he's a good guy with that role, or he's lying scum and could still manipulate the vote today if he watned to.

[Yosarian2]

All right. At this point, I think it's most likely der hammer is scum, but like I said it's not completly impossible for bluesoul to be scum either. Either way, though, I can't think of any scenerio where vismaior could be town. Anyone have any comments about this? I'd probably vote vismaior right now, but possibly being at lynch or lose and all that, I'm not going to vote just yet.

[Yosarian2]

More absurdly powerful as a scum ability then being unlynchable?

[Yosarian2]

Exactly. Oneshot unlynchability is easily imaginable. The copinvestigation does stink to high heavens.

Also, please people give reasons for voting me, Thanks.

Like I said, at this point I'm pretty sure that either bluesoul or derhammer is probably scum, but not both. At this point, if there were 3 scum at the start of the game, there are two scum now. So if one of them is either bluesoul or der hammer, who is the other one? Seems to me like the other scum has to be you. Is there something other possibility I'm missing?

[Yosarian2]

That it's you?

(shrug) I did offer to claim at the start of the day, and you said not to. Yes, I am currently on the suspicious list, and if I need to claim to convince the town to not lynch me today, I will. Now that it's no longer 100% clear to me who the last two scum are, I'd rather not claim if I don't need to.

But aside from that, I was asking if Vismaior could give me a reason why I shouldn't vote for him. That is, is there any theory he could give

to me

that might convince me there's a possible scum group that dosn't include him.

[Yosarian2]

No. I can see why Yosarian discloses himself. But, im pretty sure he is the last cohort to bluesoul.

So, even you can't think of any probable situation where both me and you are town, huh?

[Yosarian2]

No. I can see why Yosarian discloses himself. But, im pretty sure he is the last cohort to bluesoul.

So, even you can't think of any probable situation where both me and you are town, huh?

As VisMaior has not responded to this, I may as well

vote:vismaior

. I know I'm town, and I can't see any way both of us could be town, and apparently neither can anyone else, so...

[Yosarian2]

It's worth mentioning that when Bluesoul claimed a guilty on Der Hammer, Vismaior leaped to defend Der Hammer and attack Bluesoul.

O RLY? a one shot cop ability out of thin air? I highly doubt that.

4) you are full of it.

Seriously, this whole copinvestigation schtick stinks.

There's a lot of OMGUS involved, but I don't think he would have acted like that if his parnter was Bluesoul who was faking an investigation.

At this point, I'm leaning towards voting Der Hammer, but I'll wait to hear from everyone else first.

[Yosarian2]

Ok. What do you think, Sentanal?

[Yosarian2]

Hmm. Bluesoul, are you still lynch immune?

[Yosarian2]

Um, Armlx, you're dead.

[Yosarian2]

Could you claim Yosarian?

I'd really rather not if I don't have to.

[Yosarian2]

Fishing, Der Hammer?

I never claim without a reason.

Anyway, at this point, I'm now 100% convinced Sentinal is not the last scum. If he was, he would have pushed for a Der Hammer lynch, as me and Bluesoul both seemed to support one.

However, we seem to be at a deadlock here; if me and bluesoul are pushing for a der hammer lynch, and Sentinal and Der Hammer are pushing for a bluesoul lynch, we'll never get to 3 votes on someone. Sentinal, could you perhaps go into some more detail about why you think Der Hammer is scum?

[Yosarian2]

Edit: Last line should have said either "why you think Bluesoul is scum" or "Why you think Der Hammer is not scum". You know what I mean.

[Yosarian2]

Except, when I've seen lynch-immune roles in the past, they've always only been immune to the first lynch. I suspect that, no matter what Bluesoul's role is, if we lynch him now, he'll be dead.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...one observation. Earlier, I said this:

Except that dosn't make any sense. If he really was a scum with a 2 shot vote manipulation role, he clearly would have saved at least 1 of them for a lynch or lose situation where it could win the game for the scum. So either he's a good guy with that role, or he's lying scum and could still manipulate the vote today if he watned to.

If Der Hammer was lyning scum with an extra vote manipulation left, he could have already shifted a third vote over to Bluesoul and lynched him, so he was probably telling the truth about being a 2-shot. Unless he's paranoid about forcing a bluesoul lynch because he's afraid bluesoul might be unlynchable, I guess.

[Yosarian2]

Are we following "half lynch at deadline" rules? What if there's a tie?

[Yosarian2]

bluesoul, you're about to get lynched. If der hammer and sentinal keep their votes where they are, you will get lynch, no matter what else happens. Do you have anything else to say?

[Yosarian2]

Woo-hoo! Good game, all!

Now that the game is over; Der Hammer, the reason I wasn't going to claim was because I was the doctor, and if we lynched wrong, the only chance of the town not losing would be if the scum targeted sentinal and I protected him.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah. It's funny; I believed Bluesoul until he pulled that "one-shot cop" stuff out of nowhere. If he hadn't said that, he might have won. After that, though, I wasn't sure.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Well, that was why I went after vis yesterday; I wasn't sure which one of the two of you was scum.

[Yosarian2]

My role-name was "stressed out doc". Based on an urban legend I heard a while ago, I was worried something terrible was going to happen on night 3 (IE: after the doc had gone 3 nights without sleep). I wasn't sure, but I didn't want to risk killing the cop, especally as I didn't think the scum would target you after I had already sucessfully stopped one nightkill; so instead, I protected HelpI'mABug that night, who I expected the scum to target anyway.

[Yosarian2]

Ah...interesting...all game, I was assuming I protected Help I'm A Bug on day 1.