Newbie #1185 (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #1=-

haycorn (1) - Shiidaji
syndromeofadown (1) - Workdawg
Tierce (1) - fathom42
Shiidaji (1) - Cav

Not Voting (5) - inte, haycorn, syndromeofadown, Sampson, Tierce

5 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2011-12-10 14:00:00)

[Shiidaji]

Looks like RVS has failed in bringing anything to the table. Ah well.

Null-town reads on pretty much everyone except SOAD and haycorn. Inte needs to get in here.

[Shiidaji]

Vote: SOAD

Why not attack or defend anyone? If you're town, it's in your best interest to get your voice out there.

@ Everyone, please start voting, we'll get nowhere fast here.

[syndromeofadown]

I'll offer my opinion on things, but I won't attack anyone yet. Not until I have facts to back it up. For me, day 1 is just discussion and feeling out other players, too early for scumhunting. Somehow you've taken this and are trying to make an argument that I'm anti-town. I find it funny that you're attacking me for not "getting my voice out" when I've responded and given my opinion on everything presented so far. I've given my opinion. You, on the other hand, really haven't given much insight at all. You want me to vote? Fine, I'll put my RVS vote on you then. Keep in mind this is an RVS, not an attack.

VOTE: Shiidaji

Are you happy now?

[Shiidaji]

Dat reaction. Why so tense over one more vote?

Scumhunting is an over-used term. What facts are you expecting to be handed to you in this game? Mafia games are, save for some power roles, just back and forth games of accusation and reaction.

I never said, or even implied you were being anti-town, but I am rather happy, actually. My read on you has changed for the worse.
You attempt to justify yourself as not anti-town by stating that you've commented on everything that's been presented (Which you haven't, by the way.). And then you try to paint me in a bad light for not giving insight.

Therefore, you

do

suspect me, but then you vote for me saying it isn't an attack. Which doesn't make sense.

[syndromeofadown]

Dat reaction. Why so tense over one more vote?

I never said, or even implied you were being anti-town, but I am rather happy, actually. My read on you has changed for the worse.

You saying you having null-towns on everyone except me or haycorn and then voting me doesn't imply anything? I voted you because you're being illogical, and because you wanted me to vote someone. Why so tense over one more vote? I'll most likely unvote you before you end of the day. Honestly, if I were attacking you or anyone else in this game, I'd have a whole different tone. This is me being nice.

[Shiidaji]

I was null-town on everyone else.
I was null on you two.
Notice how the last two pages barely had anything to do with the game itself. I'm going based off of what little I have.

Why so tense over one more vote?

I was referring to you being tense. It was about my vote on you, not the other way around.

Keep in mind this is an RVS, not an attack.

And since apparently you're still in your little RVS world, this implies you've yet to find anyone even remotely suspicious, correct?
If not, tell me what you have from the past three pages. Otherwise, I don't see why you're complaining that I'm voting you.

[syndromeofadown]

And since apparently you're still in your little RVS world, this implies you've yet to find anyone even remotely suspicious, correct?
If not, tell me what you have from the past three pages. Otherwise, I don't see why you're complaining that I'm voting you.

You're right, we are still in RVS. We literally cannot discern scum from townie with what we have so far. We've been over this. Everything boils down to wifom. There are no scumtells day 1. Scum is found with a combination of facts and reactions, not reactions alone. You have no idea how I react when I am town. You have no idea how I react when I am scum. If you cannot understand this, I question your grasp on this game.

Here are my opinions on people so far:

fathom42 - likes to play the game and be involved
tierce - has experience, probably knows how to play fairly well
Workdawg - Pretty good IC, I can tell he's a pretty logical player.
Cav - intelligent
haycorn - quiet, posts lack content
Sampson - not enough info
Shiidaji - possible reading comprehension problems?
inte - hasn't posted yet

[Shiidaji]

I don't care for meta.
You are now just getting angry at me because I am voting you.

-

Well then, if

you

apparently have a grasp on this game, do enlighten me as to what these 'facts' are derived from. No really, I'd like to hear it, because you're obviously a master at this game, able to weed out scum without batting an eyelash.


You should really be seeing the problem at this point. Page one and two had barely anything of value. This pattern would continue if nobody was inclined to post. Notice what I just did here, I basically provided an entire conversation, between two players, and now the other players can scrutinize and do with us as they will.


Now then, regarding your reads, they say nothing that isn't either obvious or a pointless observation. I care more about who you feel is even slightly leaning scum. If you find yourself grasping at straws, then

say so

.

[syndromeofadown]

Now then, regarding your reads, they say nothing that isn't either obvious or a pointless observation. I care more about who you feel is even slightly leaning scum. If you find yourself grasping at straws, then

say so

.

That's exactly my point. Go back and read the previous pages. I've made my opinion very clear. I have no feelings one way or another about who is scum at this point. Feelings this early are pointless speculation. They get town nowhere. That said, it's good that we're having this conversation as it might be helpful later on when we have more facts to judge our cases on.

Fact: a fact is something like who died, who was voted out, who voted who and why. Those are facts. Those are things you should base you case on, combined with how people react when questioned with these facts. I'm not a master at this game. This is my second game here, I am still a newbie. You're the SE. You tell

me

why

I'm

wrong.

I'm not even mad at you and I'm sorry if you thought I was. I'm just getting frustrated having to repeat myself.

[Shiidaji]

That's exactly my point. Go back and read the previous pages. I've made my opinion very clear. I have no feelings one way or another about who is scum at this point.

Actually, up until I prompted you, you didn't.

No really, I'd like to hear it, because you're obviously a master at this game, able to weed out scum without batting an eyelash.

This was sarcasm.

And mind you, while I as an SE have no obligation to do so (That's Workdawg's forte, see.), I've actually been trying to get a point across to you for the entirety of this page. It is Day One. There are no such "facts" yet. And unless you start a ruckus, no new information will emerge, and thus town stagnates. Get the picture?

'Night.

[syndromeofadown]

No.

[Tierce]

@ Everyone, please start voting, we'll get nowhere fast here.

I want to point out that we don't need to lynch

anyone

fast. If you're not talking about a lynch, what/where do we need to get fast? Discussion? That doesn't require Day 1 voting two days in. Seems to me you're hurrying a bit toward a lynch. Why? We want to lynch scum, and there's nothing wrong if we lynch them ten minutes before the deadline as long as we get it right.

Not having input from inte is rather crippling. Of the rest, the one I'm wondering the most about is haycorn. It's true, the last two pages have little about the game, but people were willing to talk in any case--haycorn apparently isn't. It may be a matter of playstyle, but it's one that is not helping the town.

@Mod: V/LA until tomorrow evening. I'm in the middle of midterm season and it's Roman legionnaires all the way down.

[haycorn]

Sorry! My computer blew up and so I have been on my cell this weekend. This is not conducive to thoughtful analysis. I promise to post something well thought out and insightful when I get my new computer set up tonight.

I apologize for my playstyle not helping the town. I do tend to be an observer by nature, but I can see where this would be a problem. As I said, when I am at home tonight and can read more than two lines at a time, I will post something just as suspicious and accusatory as everyone else's posts. I am completely willing to talk-- I just can't find what to say at the moment.

[Workdawg]

Look at that content! A few notes about the SOAD/Shii exchange. First of all, some more theory discussion. You could argue that RVS is over the moment I voted for SOAD a second time. It wasn't a random vote. Secondly, there ARE scumtells D1 and it's silly that SOAD continues to write off D1 as a lost cause. I THINK this is just a miscommunication of sorts. It's true that we will have no absolute proof of scum on D1, but that doesn't mean scum won't act scummy and say thing that can be obvious scumtells. If you see something that seems off or rubs you the wrong way, pursue that because it MIGHT be scum, and the additional pressure of having someone attacking them might make them slip up more. Generally, I disagree with almost everything SOAD is saying. That's NOT a scumtell because it's simply a playstyle issue, but it is something I'm going to call him out on.


SOAD's vote for Shii smells of distancing. Notice how he votes, but then says it's not an attack? He wants to vote for Shii, but he doesn't want people to think he is scummy for doing it. This is scum mentality as they need to vote for someone, but if that person flips town, they will be scrutinized (everyone on the wagon will) and saying "I'm not attacking you" is a good one. (Really it's not, but for some reason people like to do that).


Unfortunately, the rest of this conversation reverted back to junky theory discussion.

@ Everyone, please start voting, we'll get nowhere fast here.

I agree, let's hear it people. Pick a person you feel unsure about, tell us why, and lay down a vote. (Note, do NOT lynch anyone yet. If you're vote would lynch, then just say that and don't vote) We need to get everyone involved and voting is a good way to do so.

[Tierce]

Theory discussion doesn't get town anywhere. There are other threads for such things

, it generates a ton of 'fluff' that is irksome to sift through while all you get that is relevant to the game is... nil.

You post this, and then several hours later embark on a theory discussion? Not looking very townie there, Shii.

[Cav]

SOAD, I'm worried about a number of things with you. First, I disagree with your position on attacking and defending and scum tells on day 1, but others have gone into it so there's no need for me to rehash that. Second, your vote for Shii, whether or not you argue it as an attack, comes across as a thought out, planned move; not what I'd call RVS, and I believe you yourself give reasons for this in your post #55. You claim you have no opinions on who scum is... but you're still voting for Shii. Like it or not, you've taken a stance on who scum is.

I'm not sure whether it's intentional or not, but you're coming across as quite confrontational; stuff like questioning someone's grasp on the game and then playing the 'i'm just a poor newbie, why don't you tell me where I'm going wrong' thing is just odd. I'm presuming this is a playstyle issue, for now, but you can see why it looks scummy, yes?

[syndromeofadown]

No, I do not see how it is scummy. Strange, yes. Scummy, no.

[Shiidaji]

I want to point out that we don't need to lynch anyone fast. If you're not talking about a lynch, what/where do we need to get fast? Discussion? That doesn't require Day 1 voting two days in. Seems to me you're hurrying a bit toward a lynch. Why? We want to lynch scum, and there's nothing wrong if we lynch them ten minutes before the deadline as long as we get it right.

To put it bluntly,

duh

. We've plenty of time, It's not like I'm tunneling SOAD or anything. Thread needed a jumpstart after that meager opening phase.

Unfortunately, the rest of this conversation reverted back to junky theory discussion.

Sorry. It wasn't chock-full of theory, but I was attempting to prove a point, which fell on deaf ears anyway.

Theory discussion doesn't get town anywhere. There are other threads for such things

, it generates a ton of 'fluff' that is irksome to sift through while all you get that is relevant to the game is... nil.

You post this, and then several hours later embark on a theory discussion? Not looking very townie there, Shii.

That wasn't just theory discussion. Do you have anything useful to contribute at all?
What impression does SOAD give you after our exchange?

[fathom42]

SOAD, I'm worried about a number of things with you. First, I disagree with your position on attacking and defending and scum tells on day 1, but others have gone into it so there's no need for me to rehash that.

Second, your vote for Shii, whether or not you argue it as an attack, comes across as a thought out, planned move

; not what I'd call RVS, and I believe you yourself give reasons for this in your post #55. You claim you have no opinions on who scum is... but you're still voting for Shii. Like it or not, you've taken a stance on who scum is.

I'm not sure whether it's intentional or not, but you're coming across as quite confrontational; stuff like questioning someone's grasp on the game and then playing the 'i'm just a poor newbie, why don't you tell me where I'm going wrong' thing is just odd. I'm presuming this is a playstyle issue, for now, but you can see why it looks scummy, yes?

Kinda curious about why you think that (see bolded sentence.).

Also, SOAD, what are you responding to in the post below?

No.

[fathom42]

Also:

Unvote

Vote: Sampson

He and Haycorn haven't really been contributing much to the game. Haycorn, however, has a good reason for this. Sampson, care to comment on whats been going on?

[Shiidaji]

SOAD's vote for Shii smells of distancing. Notice how he votes, but then says it's not an attack? He wants to vote for Shii, but he doesn't want people to think he is scummy for doing it. This is scum mentality as they need to vote for someone, but if that person flips town, they will be scrutinized (everyone on the wagon will) and saying "I'm not attacking you" is a good one. (Really it's not, but for some reason people like to do that).

Distancing refers to a scum-scum interaction that is an attempt to create disassociation, iirc.

I disagree with Cav here, SOAD's playstyle is quite the opposite of confrontational, in this case at least.

[Cav]

@fathom Because he OMGUS voted immediately after Shii voted for him and in 55 said he was voting for Shii for being illogical. I don't follow his reasons but they are reasons; random voting, for me at least, is voting for dumb things not based on game content to get the game moving. This coupled with SOADs play suggested to me that his vote was anything but random.

why vote for Sampson and not, say inte?

@Shii, Work could mean distancing in the simple sense that he doesn't really want to be seen on your wagon, thus SOAD qualifies his vote as still part of RVS, drawing attention to you while being able to say he wasn't involved in your wagon, should anything come of it.

[inte]

im chillin' in the back and watching the game progress

[fathom42]

im chillin' in the back and watching the game progress

Ok then.

Unvote

Vite: Inte

You say you've been following the game, but you haven't posted anything? You must have SOMETHING to say.

@ Cav: I didn't initially vote for him, because I wasn't sure if he was totally inactive or lurking. Didn't see the point to voting him if he was going to get replaced in a day.