Newbie #1185 (Game Over!)

[Cav]

Apologies, I've had some really terrible internet issues; rereading now

[Tierce]

In my opinion, appeals to emotion aren't scumtells. Shii says that mafia tends to play with their heart; I disagree. Emotional mafia

may

slip more easily (after all, they are the ones with things to hide) if riled, but they always have the option to sit back and think their posts through. Emotional, rapid posts tend to read town to me. Town doesn't need to worry so much what other players think.

That's why I'm partial to SOAD being town. It could be a gambit, but it'd be a painfully obvious one. The setup inquiry was a bit off, but it still does not convince me.


On the other hand, we have Shii.

Notice what I just did here, I basically provided an entire conversation, between two players, and now the other players can scrutinize and do with us as they will.

[To me:]
What impression does SOAD give you after our exchange?

@Haycorn

What about SOAD feels scummy to you?

@Everyone else

- Do you find Haycorn's jump on the SOAD wagon scummy? Which of the two feels scummier?

@ Fathom

What do you make of Inte's recent posts?

@Workdawg

When you 'gather your thoughts', can you give me what you've got on Haycorn, Soad, and Inte? Kthnxbbs.

Posts filled with questions to others, about others. This lets Shii slip quite comfortably under the radar. Further, the whole "what

I

did" on the first quote, and the later admission that there was intentional riling of SOAD's emotional levels, seems more than a bit odd to me. It feels like Shii is/wants control of the game and what answers and reactions pop up. Who has enough information to do so? Scum. Notice how the only actual read we have from Shii is SOAD, but it's accompanied by questions about haycorn and inte.


I'm not saying we should let up on SOAD; at the moment, my read on him is rather flimsy. But ignoring Shii may be a bad plan.


Still, my vote stays on inte until we get decent information from him. I still want to know the reasons behind his votes on fathom and me.

[Cav]

Roight, thought gathering time super GO.

SOAD: I'm really not sure about him. First impressions; scum. Then town. Now... ugh.
I would've dismissed his setup fishing as a newb error, if he hadn't already tried to base his vote on metagaming, which doesn’t seem newbish to me. I don't agree with using meta to find scum as it's equally easy for someone to consciously play against meta, but I could see SOADs case convincing nervous newbies into voting Work.
Overall, I can’t shake the feeling that SOAD is testing for weak points in the player base. I’m really not sure whether he’s town or scum.

Inte: Don’t like the withholding info. His vote for Tierce I find odd; all that fluff and no real reasons for his vote. I don’t like. Possibly newb-scum.

Shii: generally town, but his defence of SOADs actions strikes me as odd. A player who reacts passionately isn’t scum because they’re more invested... wha? I don’t follow this logic at all. Null.

Fathom: Null

Sampson: Null-town

Haycorn; wagon confusion and the sorry thing were a bit off, but apart from that, quite town.

Tierce: town thus far.


Work: town

[inte]

english is my first language. im just not a forum lyricist and often type how i speak. welp back to class!

[inte]

@inte
Can I call you she? xie? hir?

you can call me whatever as long as people can figure out who you're referring to. but i guess ill refer to tierce as her because it bothers her so much.

[Shiidaji]

Tierce said...

In my opinion, appeals to emotion aren't scumtells. Shii says that mafia tends to play with their heart; I disagree. Emotional mafia may slip more easily (after all, they are the ones with things to hide) if riled, but they always have the option to sit back and think their posts through. Emotional, rapid posts tend to read town to me. Town doesn't need to worry so much what other players think.

You've mis-read, it seems.
I said that "The stronger a reaction is, the more a person plays with his heart." Not "Mafia play with their heart." It's obvious that Mafia can sit back and think about it a bit. Your opinion on scumreading is yours.

Posts filled with questions to others, about others. This lets Shii slip quite comfortably under the radar. Further, the whole "what I did" on the first quote, and the later admission that there was intentional riling of SOAD's emotional levels, seems more than a bit odd to me. It feels like Shii is/wants control of the game and what answers and reactions pop up. Who has enough information to do so? Scum. Notice how the only actual read we have from Shii is SOAD, but it's accompanied by questions about haycorn and inte.

It's not me slipping under the radar, you're free to ask me anything you want. Want my reads on someone? Ask.

Your logic is a bit faulty, since you're accusing me of slipping under the radar and yet you're also saying that I'm attempting to control the game.

My questioning is playstyle-based.

Shii: generally town, but his defence of SOADs actions strikes me as odd. A player who reacts passionately isn't scum because they're more invested... wha? I don't follow this logic at all. Null.

What? Quote me to the post in which I defended SOAD.

How'd you get your Workdawg townread?

[Cav]

Ok, well, your post #71

SOAD's playstyle is quite the opposite of confrontational, in this case at least.

Which I presumed was just you voicing your opinion until your #114 until you said

Trust me, this is nothing. You'll find that even in the newbie games there're way, way worse arguments and discussions between people. If you're going to find every little bicker scummy, then you won't get much done.

And

I don't see any reasoning behind your vote besides "He's angry." What about SOAD feels scummy to you?
@Everyone else - Do you find Haycorn's jump on the SOAD wagon scummy? Which of the two feels scummier?

Why weigh in on this? Why not let SOAD answer Haycorn’s points?
Your #117 chastises SOAD for PR fishing but you dismissed it quickly. Also in that post

The stronger a reaction is, the more a person plays with his heart. Scum are scared of being caught, try to push suspicion on others, and don't want to attract attention.

Admittedly this is to defend yourself against fathom, but are you really arguing that because you too got heated we shouldn’t think you or him scummy? I don’t buy it, but that’s just me.

My null on you comes from the fact that for the most part I like your play, but the way you keep returning to the you vs.SOAD thing bugs me, especially the way you’re jumping in to argue his side, WHILE voting for him.

My Work town read came about because I see nothing in his posting so far to suggest he’s scum, whereas I have at least a few suspicions on everyone else.

[Shiidaji]

Cav posted...

Why weigh in on this? Why not let SOAD answer Haycorn’s points?
Your #117 chastises SOAD for PR fishing but you dismissed it quickly. Also in that post [...]

So because I'm voting someone, I can't question someone else who is voting him?
-
It was a null-tell, especially considering this is a newbie game. I wanted to see if he'd follow up with anything similar that would imply that he was actually asking for PR claims, but, no dice.

Admittedly this is to defend yourself against fathom, but are you really arguing that because you too got heated we shouldn’t think you or him scummy? I don’t buy it, but that’s just me.

Arguments aren't scummy, it's what's said in them that counts. All I'm hearing is "Oh, they argued, that's scummy."
Analyze it, and actually show how it was scummy.

My null on you comes from the fact that for the most part I like your play, but the way you keep returning to the you vs.SOAD thing bugs me, especially the way you’re jumping in to argue his side, WHILE voting for him.

I can respect that, since the lack of content provided by early-game shenanigans doesn't give much to go on, so

again

, I'm going with what I have. Thing is, you mis-read my posts as defending him. And you haven't actually quoted where I'm 'defending' him. So.

[Sampson]

@Mod: V/LA from 11/24 to 12/1. I will have internet access, so I'll be able to post. If that's too long regardless, you can replace me.

Shii's questions aren't necessarily scummy. They are a way to get information on the table, which can help the town later on. And he (or are you a she? Sorry if it's been asked before) is an SE, so you have to keep in mind that he's helping you learn, too.

@inte: Do you have an answer for my Tierce question?

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #3=-

syndromeofadown (3) - Workdawg, Shiidaji, haycorn
inte (2) - fathom42, Tierce
Shiidaji (1) - Cav

Not Voting (3) - Sampson, syndromeofadown, inte

5 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2011-12-10 14:00:00)

[Tierce]

you can call me whatever as long as people can figure out who you're referring to. but i guess ill refer to tierce as her because it bothers her so much.

Thank you. Now please answer the questions that were asked of you.

You've mis-read, it seems.
I said that "The stronger a reaction is, the more a person plays with his heart." Not "Mafia play with their heart." It's obvious that Mafia can sit back and think about it a bit. Your opinion on scumreading is yours.

Your logic is a bit faulty, since you're accusing me of slipping under the radar and yet you're also saying that I'm attempting to control the game.

My questioning is playstyle-based.

Yup, I've mis-read. You could technically do both (controlling and slipping under the radar), but I'll concede that point. It's too early in the game for me to push at vague notions.

What are your currents reads, aside from SOAD?


inte makes me antsy, because his behavior is flagrantly scummy. Maybe too much so, but from here on it just devolves into WIFOM, so until further clarification, my vote stays.

[haycorn]

I can't deal with the post being so far down on the page. It makes me sad.

Tierce, you make some excellent points about Shii, though I had assumed that was because s/he is an SE. It does bear thinking about though. Also, and totally unrelated to the game but I would be remiss in not saying so, your posts are extremely well-written, and had you not specified that English was not your first language, not only would I not have known, I would STILL think they were very well-written.

[Tierce]

@Mod: Can we get a prod on fathom and SOAD? I know it's an holiday weekend in the US, but in any case...

As for the rest, come on, folks, no posts in two days, no notices? You've had too much turkey, surely. Let's keep this moving.

@haycorn

:
Thank you, that's appreciated. I'd like to redirect the compliment to my high-school teachers, but the actual blame can be pinned on the authors of my endless reading list.

When it comes to Shii and being an SE, we have this:

Despite appearances, there is no official authority in the SE position. Since they have been on the site for a while, they can aid players who are new to the site like an IC would; but unlike ICs they are under no obligation to do so.

Thus I wouldn't put much stock on it influencing play style.

@Shii

:
Another thing: You said my wall had nothing but fluff in it. Anything you'd like to know from me I haven't made known yet?

[syndromeofadown]

I'm preparing a big post, sorry the reason I haven't been posting is I've been busy with thanksgiving, I haven't forgotten

[syndromeofadown]

I appologize for posting a wall of text. I know it looks ugly, but I couldn't figure out a better way to post this. My commentary will be in bold.

Hi! I'm haycorn. This is my first game on the site, but I was a huge fan of Cry Wolf back in the day, so if I start entering the day phase by rapidly typing suspicious visions, please forgive me..

First post and she's already asking people to forgive her for being suspicious? This isn't a good start...

I feel like there would be a very fine line between "thoughtful consideration of a question" and "I don't want to answer that so I'm going to imply you shouldn't ask."

Awwww. Fathom, I like your icon, but I also think that Mordin would not be very good at Mafia.

Second post and third posts, from here on you'll start noticing a pattern in her posting. She posts just often enough to not be a lurker, while saying something which doesn't add anything to the conversation.

Sorry! My computer blew up and so I have been on my cell this weekend. This is not conducive to thoughtful analysis. I promise to post something well thought out and insightful when I get my new computer set up tonight.

I apologize for my playstyle not helping the town. I do tend to be an observer by nature, but I can see where this would be a problem. As I said, when I am at home tonight and can read more than two lines at a time, I will post something just as suspicious and accusatory as everyone else's posts. I am completely willing to talk-- I just can't find what to say at the moment.

She admits she hasn't contributed anything, and admits she hasn't been helping the town, and then blames it on her computer blowing up. I do not believe her computer blew up, but whether it has or not, just because she admits to not being helpful to the town doesn't make it any less of a problem.

(just a note-- this quote list feature is FANTASTIC!)

If you cannot understand this, I question your grasp on this game.

Well then, if

you

apparently have a grasp on this game, do enlighten me as to what these 'facts' are derived from. No really, I'd like to hear it, because you're obviously a master at this game, able to weed out scum without batting an eyelash.

No.

All I see here is theory argument and fighting about who plays the game better. At first, SOAD's "no" post really stood out to me. I'm not sure what the point of posting such a rude response would be other than to keep the debate going and raise the level of hostility, which to my inexperienced eyes seems scummy. Upon what has to be my fifth re-read (yes, I really was keeping up with the post on my phone) I think I can see where that anger was coming from, as Shii was definitely attacking SOAD's skill as a player, but by the same token, SOAD questioned all our skills first.

As for inte, you should really stop giving newbies a bad name and start learning some social skills. I am actually hesitant to think of you as mafia, because it would mean you are really, REALLY bad at it (and yes, I did just do what I criticized SOAD and Shii for doing.) And also, since your new reply just popped up, go back and review the thread. Tierce is female, and I'm not sure I'd refer to her as "kind-hearted."

I suppose at this point I would be most inclined to VOTE: VOTE: syndromeofadown. Sorry.

This is supposed to be her big breakthrough post? First paragraph says a whole lot of nothing, just summarizing what happened. Then out of the blue attacks inte. You'll notice this doesn't match up with the rest of her posting style. It seems to me that she freaked out after people noticed she wasn't analyzing anything and just decided to attack the two most scummy-looking players so everyone would take the pressure off of her.

Then she votes for me, after showing no signs of previously thinking I'm scummy or even trying to bait a reaction out of me, with flimsy reasoning at best. Finally, she ends the post saying she's sorry, as if she's trying to be as non-provocative as possible so she can go back to sliding under the radar.

Personally, I think the Shii/SOAD thing was scummy from both sides. I don't approve of either of them resorting to personal attacks (i.e. "I question your grasp on this game," Shii's sarcasm, etc.). Either one of them could be baiting the other, trying to get them to post something reactionary.

Maybe they are both scum and have prearranged their argument so we never suspect they are in cahoots. Or is that too WIFOM?

Phrasing a question as a "maybe" because she knows it's not true?

@Tierce My reasoning was that I saw the "No" post as an attempt to provoke hostility. While I can understand your read on his reaction, I felt like he was intentionally trying to further the fight.

I am aware we can't know what soad and shii are up to. I just had the thought and wanted to share it so I wouldn't be so lurky.

This justification doesn't add up. I want to know why I'm scummy. Just because I said "no" in a really mean and rude way is a good enough reason to vote me? I guess I could forgive that, but what's worse is the second part. You wanted to post this so "you wouldn't be so lurky?". How is that at all a good reason to post, ever? A better reason would have been "because I wanted to be clear on my vote" or "I wanted you to see why SOAD is obviously scum". But she didn't say that. The real reason she's been posting all this time is "so she wouldn't be lurky"

4) him and his are non gendered terms on the internet. i don't assume anyone is male or female. i actually assume everyone is transgendered. it really shouldn't be relevant if you're guy gal or other though.

Since when? I have never been in any online environment where it was considered acceptable to refer to someone explicitly identified as female as "him" or "he."

Also, were I transgendered I would probably appreciate being referred to either by one of the invented non-gendered pronouns or by the pronoun that corresponds to the gender I have identified myself as.

I know we are here to play Mafia, not to discuss the politics of language, but really. Don't be an asshole and then try to justify it with "more open-minded than thou" logic.

I honestly don't get the feeling she really cares that much about the whole he/she thing. She's just looking for another reason to post more fluff. Haycorn is the seinfeld of mafia. It's an entire 3 paragraph post about nothing. At least nothing game related.

@Shiidaji
I'm not sorry for voting and am not even sure why I kept that word in there. I had been going to say that my vote was not because of what SOAD said, but because of how he said it, and that it was not my entry into your little tiff.

Was there an SOAD wagon? I was of the impression that all three votes for him came at totally different times for totally different reasons. I'd hate to be on a wagon and not know it.

She slips up, gets called on it and tries to play the old "sorry I didn't really mean to say that" card. Not buying it. Stop trying to be so cutesy. That second part just really strikes me as scummy. She knew there was a wagon, and she jumped on it, and now she's trying to say she was never on a wagon and she'd

hate

to be on a wagon. Why would she hate being on a wagon if she's certain that player is scum? Is it because she's not really interested in lynching scum? Was the real reason that she joined the bandwagon because she didn't want to appear "so lurky?"

@Shii

I think maybe I see "provoking" and "baiting for reactions" to be, if not synonymous, at least very close to one another. If he made the post solely to get you more angry, I see that as sowing discord, which I see as scummy. Maybe I'm wrong. That's why I'm in a newbie game, because I've only ever done this five years ago in a totally different setup, and there's only so much I can learn by reading completed games. If he just wasn't willing to keep talking, than that wouldn't be provoking, but that's not how I read that post.

Ahh. I was thinking of wagon in terms of more of a bandwagon, and wanted to say that I voted for him for my own reason, not because anyone else did.

Not that it matters, but the wagon confusion really was just me being new and uninformed. I conflated wagon and sleeping. I get it now, though.

>I'm voting for my own reasons, honest. It's because he said NO in a really mean way. I'm not on a bandwagon. stop paying attention to my votes.

I can't deal with the post being so far down on the page. It makes me sad.

Tierce, you make some excellent points about Shii, though I had assumed that was because s/he is an SE. It does bear thinking about though. Also, and totally unrelated to the game but I would be remiss in not saying so, your posts are extremely well-written, and had you not specified that English was not your first language, not only would I not have known, I would STILL think they were very well-written.

>Whew everyone forgot about me and my little red wagon, lets continue posting about things totally unrelated to the game. You know, so it doesn't come across as lurking.

Overall, haycorn strikes me as the scummiest player, and I'm honestly surprised nobody else has picked up on this yet. She just really rubs me the wrong way. I've compiled every single one of her posts into one place, and after 6 pages all she's posted is fluff. If it isn't obvious already,

VOTE: haycorn

. And a couple of questions for her too:

>What are your opinions on literally any other player besides me? You haven't said anything to indicate one way or another
>Who do you think is second most scummy and why?
>You admitted that your last post had nothing to do with the game. Why post it then? Do you still just have nothing to say about the actual game?
>You even admitted your playstyle doesn't help the town. Even if you're not scum, what reasons do we have to keep you around if you're going to continue not helping the town?

[haycorn]

First post and she's already asking people to forgive her for being suspicious? This isn't a good start...

And if I had said that I was going to be suspicious, that would be a valid point. I said that I would start posting about "suspicious visions" which clearly does not have a role anywhere in this version of Mafia. It was a game mechanic in Cry Wolf-- because there were no power roles, sheep would occasionally get nighttime visions about who to trust or who to suspect. Being the first person to type your vision into chat was one of the ways to prove you are town.

Then she votes for me, after showing no signs of previously thinking I'm scummy or even trying to bait a reaction out of me, with flimsy reasoning at best.

I wasn't aware that I had to submit forms in triplicate in order to vote for someone. Plenty of people were just throwing votes at the wall. You can say that my reasoning is shoddy all you want, but it was there. It wasn't like I hammered you. It was just one vote.

Just because I said "no" in a really mean and rude way is a good enough reason to vote me? I guess I could forgive that, but what's worse is the second part. You wanted to post this so "you wouldn't be so lurky?".

Yes, that was a good enough reason to vote you. If you did the iso on my posts, you can see where I have said at least three times that I thought your rudeness was trying to make Shii more angry with you, and at that point in the game I thought it was scummy to try to provoke her, given that your argument was about gameplay styles, not about scum versus town. As for why I wanted to post, Tierce said she thought I was apparently unwilling to talk. I wanted to try to show that I was willing.

I honestly don't get the feeling she really cares that much about the whole he/she thing. She's just looking for another reason to post more fluff.

....do you have a reason for thinking I don't care about that, or is it just a hunch? I could discuss more about how very deeply I care about the issue, but you'd probably just call that fluff and use it against me.

Haycorn is the seinfeld of mafia.

Oh man, can I put that in my sig? I thought I'd have to be on the site for years to get someone to say something so interesting about me. Now I got something in my first game. This is AWESOME.

What are your opinions on literally any other player besides me? You haven't said anything to indicate one way or another

I think inte's confrontational playstyle doesn't do much to help the town, and his one bit of analysis (in #110) adds very little to the game. He keeps saying that he knows something or has something to say, and he keeps not saying it. He's either really bad at this or scum. Please take that bit as my answer to your "second most scummy" question. I think that Tierce and Shii have been directing most of the flow of the game, which I find interesting. I'm not sure whether this is a purposeful maneuvering for control or just an attempt at helpfulness, but I will be watching what they have to say. I don't have a strong read on any of the other players.

You admitted that your last post had nothing to do with the game. Why post it then?

There was no ulterior motive. I just didn't like seeing our thread so far down on the page, and I'd wanted to make the comment about Tierce's post.

You even admitted your playstyle doesn't help the town.

Slow down there, Wordy McTwistywords!!!! What I said was "I apologize for my playstyle not helping the town. I do tend to be an observer by nature, but I can see where this would be a problem." That was me clarifying that I was going to try to go against my usual operating style to try to be more helpful. I mean, my goodness. This is my first game. I don't even HAVE a playstyle yet. Please, oh fellow townspeople, forgive me for being aware of my faults and not coming up with a scum detector in the first three days of the game.
__________________________

Okay, my turn.

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet.

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

Even if you're not scum, what reasons do we have to keep you around if you're going to continue not helping the town?

You really, really, REALLY want to figure out those Power Roles, don't you? Are you trying to bait me into claiming something in that last part? That's really, really scummy.

...huh. Upon looking back I realize now that this is the second time you have completely flipped on someone who voted for you (the first being post #53.) You're really sensitive, huh?

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go to bed so I can go to work tomorrow. My imaginary exploded computer isn't going to pay for itself.

[Shiidaji]

@Mod, prod on Fathom please.

Full reply to Tierce and the drivel in the morning, have the post written halfway.

[Tierce]

I've been drawing all morning, so my brain is all measurements and boulders. While I wouldn't discard SOAD's points offhand, they still read as "hello look at me I'm a distraction from the pressure on me". Try defending yourself before attacking others. We want to hear about you too.

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

The more I think about it, the more this post seems like a placeholder for whoever SOAD thought to attack desperately when it became needed. It doesn't strike me as an eager newbie mistake, but as a planned act.


On his post about haycorn, it reads to me as if SOAD is trying to distract us from himself. While we shouldn't disregard his points, I have a few things to mention about them:

She admits she hasn't contributed anything, and admits she hasn't been helping the town, and then blames it on her computer blowing up. I do not believe her computer blew up, but whether it has or not, just because she admits to not being helpful to the town doesn't make it any less of a problem.

So, you'd believe in Cav's (and countless others') internet issues, but because you think someone is scum they can't have them anymore? Everyone has RL to deal with. On that account, imo they're innocent till proven guilty.

First paragraph says a whole lot of nothing, just summarizing what happened. Then out of the blue attacks inte. You'll notice this doesn't match up with the rest of her posting style. It seems to me that she freaked out after people noticed she wasn't analyzing anything and just decided to attack the two most scummy-looking players so everyone would take the pressure off of her.

1. I summarised it too. It helps me put my thoughts in order, and I prefer to post it instead of keeping it to myself because sometimes I mis-read/misunderstand things and this way others can point out my mistakes. Shii thinks my own wall just fluff. Do you think that was a scummy action from me?
2. Or she noticed and decided to act more pro-town because she's actually town and learning. Your argument is weak.

Phrasing a question as a "maybe" because she knows it's not true?

This early in the game, only mafia have facts and certainties. I don't see anything wrong with that 'maybe'. One thing are language scumslips, but it seems to me you're grasping at straws.

Whew everyone forgot about me and my little red wagon, lets continue posting about things totally unrelated to the game. You know, so it doesn't come across as lurking.

Dude, we'd only forget about it if we were dumb. People aren't posting, it's called a bump post.


More thoughts later, I have building reconstitutions to go back to.

[Shiidaji]

Yup, I've mis-read. You could technically do both (controlling and slipping under the radar), but I'll concede that point. It's too early in the game for me to push at vague notions.

What are your currents reads, aside from SOAD?

Whee.

SOAD is definitely up there, if only for the lack of strong reads from anyone else. Will have to decide on wether he's newbtown or scum eventually, but I'm pretty happy with where my vote stands right now.

Workdawg is the player I'd like to say I've a townread on, but then I'd be lying. I'm not usually partial to meta, but he usually has a bigger voice in his towngames. Subject to change when he gets back on MS. Otherwise, his posts and analyses are null and fluffy.

Don't understand Inte from his ISO but I don't think he's scum. Feels like a mislynch waiting to happen.

Gut scumread on Haycorn and Fathom, latter needs to post more, considering the activity in early D1. Haycorn/SOAD exchange feel like Town vs. Scum.

Sampson is null (No town/scum motivation from any posts, asides from unvoting the RVS vote which is pointless and does nothing).

Townvibes from Tierce and Cav.

Another thing: You said my wall had nothing but fluff in it. Anything you'd like to know from me I haven't made known yet?

Would you say the inactivity in-game is due to lurkscum wanting the town to rip itself apart?

Who is scummier, Haycorn or SOAD? (Assuming latter.)

[Cav]

Sorry all but I've had to ask the mod to replace me.

I have no internet from home (I'm posting this from a library which closes in 5 minutes, truly thrilling stuff). It's been fun and I hope I can play with some of you again when BT sort their crappy phone and broadband tech services out!

As to last thoughts

SOADs wall makes me sad; his points about Haycorn seem all semantics and snark with little substance. I think probably scummy, or totally newbish
Shii puts in the scumhunting graft; I'd say town... I think.
Haycorn, not sure. Nothing substantial to go on yet, although I like her refutation of SOAD.
Tierce, town I think. Again, seems to be working hard, and nothing really scummy stands out thus far
Work, null to town, would've liked to see more from him to make me feel more comfortable about my town vibes
Inte, null to scum
Fathom, null, not enough to go on
Sampson, ditto

Right, I'm getting the evils from a librarian, so best be off. Goodnight and good luck, etc. etc.

[Shiidaji]

Above exchange doesn't feel town vs. town.
asdfghj I miss double-vote Mafia.
Haycorn didn't show any aggression or support for the SOAD wagon until SOAD voted for her. Why?

-

When it comes to Shii and being an SE, we have this:
Wiki wrote:Despite appearances, there is no official authority in the SE position. Since they have been on the site for a while, they can aid players who are new to the site like an IC would; but unlike ICs they are under no obligation to do so.Thus I wouldn't put much stock on it influencing play style.

It's half and half. Don't have a playstyle set in stone yet but I like the one I have right now.
Also since the IC's gone for a bit I'm trying keep the game from halting.
-

Cheers, Cav.

[Workdawg]

Sorry guys, been really busy lately with wrestling starting up and SWTOR beta this weekend. I'll get my ass in gear Monday, V/LA until then.

[iamausername]

-=fathom42 has been prodded=-

-=BBmolla replaces Cav=-

[Tierce]

Sorry to see you go, Cav. Hope you get access again soon, and I'll see you around.

Ahahaha hi BB. Didn't even need a nudge from me. (I was following a game of his that had just ended and we exchanged a few PMs about it.) Nice to see you around.

SOAD is definitely up there, if only for the lack of strong reads from anyone else. Will have to decide on wether he's newbtown or scum eventually, but I'm pretty happy with where my vote stands right now.

Workdawg is the player I'd like to say I've a townread on, but then I'd be lying. I'm not usually partial to meta, but he usually has a bigger voice in his towngames. Subject to change when he gets back on MS. Otherwise, his posts and analyses are null and fluffy.

Don't understand Inte from his ISO but I don't think he's scum. Feels like a mislynch waiting to happen.

Gut scumread on Haycorn and Fathom, latter needs to post more, considering the activity in early D1. Haycorn/SOAD exchange feel like Town vs. Scum.

Would you say the inactivity in-game is due to lurkscum wanting the town to rip itself apart?

Who is scummier, Haycorn or SOAD? (Assuming latter.)

Much better! Glad to see this from you.

Workdawg: While the "ICs tend to be scum" thing is a myth (they have the same random chance of being mafia as anyone else), their experience and teaching attitude tends to make them more successful scum than most. However, I don't really have anything to go on with him, waiting for more posts.

inte: I'm uncertain on him too, but I don't feel like changing my vote around until we hear more from the rest of the game (and definitely from him) since there's no risk of a quicklynch right now.

You say gut scumread on haycorn, consider SOAD the scummiest of the lot, and classify haycorn/SOAD exchange as town vs. scum? I'm missing something here.

Agreed, needs more fathom, insecure there too.

I'd say the current activity is due to Thanksgiving and most players still trying to get comfortable. At most, we get two lurkscum, so all the rest of the lurkers are town. There are currently more inactive players than two, thus killing that hypothesis. Plus, scum knows that lurking is considered scummy, so...

I think SOAD is scummier. On the one hand, I don't know if haycorn is being friendly just because she's friendly or if this is a start of a buddying attempt on me. (I'm all for natural friendliness, but I bite if you try to incriminate me by association, haycorn.) On the other hand, wow, SOAD. I keep rereading that wall and it's still OH LOOK A DISTRACTION and nothing of real substance.

[BBmolla]

Hi folks. Will get caught up in a bit here, just woke up.