Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over

[Nightfall]

I also don't see why you'd think a mass-role-block would be passable. If it was, either scum or town could put the other side into a complete standstill over and over, if the passes were done right.

Surely it could be passable without being multi-use.

I would guess it could be, but at the same time, just because it isn't doesn't make it scummy.

I see the item as a "Get one night of safety" item. From what I can tell so far, like I think HH pointed out, scum need to come to our tent(?) to kill us. This item is a one shot "Doc protects everyone" - like item.

[Kelly Chen]

What I'd find scummy isn't that it isn't passable, but that Nai seemed to argue that it shouldn't be passable.

That's not to say I see myself voting Nai today. I'm just nervous. But if he is scum, I think we're way ahead of the game in having him claim that item, since he can hardly use it against us without us knowing who probably did it.

[Coron]

I'd argue that it IS scummy that he claims that it isnt passable because:
A) scum with it and it is unpassable will want to claim it's unpassable
B) scum with it and it is passable will want to claim it's unpassable so they don't have to pass it off.

[Nai]

So, in other words, Coron, there's no possibly scenario in which I could be town with an item that I say I have? Bravo. Trying to shut off any discussion of me possibly being town.

It SHOULDN'T be passable, from a design perspective, because it's a powerful ability. It's a global, yet selective, role-block. Can you see that ability being used more than once in a game that wouldn't unbalance it?

[Kelly Chen]

It SHOULDN'T be passable, from a design perspective, because it's a powerful ability. It's a global, yet selective, role-block. Can you see that ability being used more than once in a game that wouldn't unbalance it?

If it starts with "Once in the game, you may", that's once for the

artifact

for the entire game; once it's been used, the artifact either becomes useless or disappears.

It could easily be one one this type of artifact, and still be passable.

Man didn't I say this?

Ok, this is what I should be replying to

I don't think there'd be any point of an artifact that, once used, can't ever be used again, but can be passed around.

Because you could pass it WITHOUT using it.

The point would just be a wider range of choices. Scum could say "hey, if you don't trust me with this thing, take it." Somebody who thinks they're going to die could pass it on first.

I'd argue that it IS scummy that he claims that it isnt passable because:
A) scum with it and it is unpassable will want to claim it's unpassable
B) scum with it and it is passable will want to claim it's unpassable so they don't have to pass it off.

B isn't obvious at all. If scum have been driven to claim then they need to be thinking about what will save their ass, not how they can hang on to their artifact.

[Coron]

So, in other words, Coron, there's no possibly scenario in which I could be town with an item that I say I have? Bravo. Trying to shut off any discussion of me possibly being town.

I do not feel it is nesissary to respond to this because it is such a complete misrepresentation of what I said(and also what I meant) that it almost has to be intentional.

[Nai]

It sure seems like that's what you're trying to say. You continue to post scenarios which only end up in me being scum, and won't seem to recognize any chance of my being town. What would you call that?

[Coron]

It is obvious when you would do this as town(as long as you're not completely and utterly retarded), so I feel no need to comment on that. I instead comment on something... you know... substantial and meaningful.

Sorry if that's wrong.

[Apeiron]

How about just forcing someone to tell something rather than this senseless discussion?

It is scummy that it isn't passable.
Also, I am confused whether it is a super-roleblock which blocks everything at night, or whether it only blocks the scum at night (so not investigations).

Vote: Nai

You've already said a lot, just say everything.

[Coron]

He said he doesn't know who it would block he said it blocks people who have to go outside.

[Nai]

Actually, what I SAID was that the role says it 'stops people from going outside'. It doesn't say anything else about who gets blocked. That's all I got.

There is no more to say. That's all the info I have unless I use it, then I can't use it again.

[Nightfall]

CTD, GL are you two still around?

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I'm leaning towards buying Nai's artifact claim because I think it is very plausible, however his artifact cannot indicate alignment, so he's not off the hook in my eyes. I'm going to reevaluate the game in my next post.

[Nightfall]

If he does have the artifact he says he does, I think it would be much more likely that he'd be town as opposed to scum.

[Apeiron]

Hm alright, it's a bit clearer to me now

Unvote

I think it would be good if you use it soon. If it is a pro-Town ability that blocks mainly scum - which I expect it to be - it can better be used early on. The reasons for this are mainly:
(1) You might get killed and loose us a pretty powerful move
(2) If we get to a point where we lynch an entire mafia group (if there are multiple), or if the SK (if any) gets lynched/killed, the benefit of blocking scum is decreased

[Apeiron]

Oh and,

(3) It proves your claim to us all

[Nai]

I can put in to use it tonight, if I'm not lynched by then. I'm kinda running out of time here, being on the lynching block. I"m still tied with Hacker, if I recall, and I've been up there the longest.

The only reason I didn't want to use it basically stems from not wanting to interrupt cop investigations/doc protects, if we have those roles.

[Kelly Chen]

I think you're at 2. Apeiron was already on you when he voted, and now he's unvoted.

I am not sure I want Nai to use the item tonight. I am fairly confident he does have it, and even if he does have it, it doesn't comment much on his alignment.

[Nai]

Ah! You're right, he was. Since Jules was voting for me.

At this point, there's good reasonf rom both sides, to use it or not. I can't really confirm my innocence with it, I'm afraid. I'm not sure who it blocks and, for all I know, it could block only town (which would damn me). However, there's no better time than early, in case of SK or such roles.

[Nightfall]

I vote for you to use it tonight. If it does stop night kills, then it would mean that our artifacts will last a day longer too. (Explanation: We wouldn't loose one of them to a night kill tonight.)

[Nai]

I hope you're right about that. I just hope that, if Im' targetted with anything, the roleblock gets off first.

[HackerHuck]

I think you're at 2. Apeiron was already on you when he voted, and now he's unvoted.

I am not sure I want Nai to use the item tonight. I am fairly confident he does have it, and even if he does have it, it doesn't comment much on his alignment.

Why would you not want him to use the item tonight? Now that the scum know he has it, he's a target and would lose it upon his death. I say better to use than not.

I wonder if the

mod

can clarify this. Do we need to leave our tents to pass artifacts?

[Apeiron]

It's pretty simple. The earlier you use it, the more kills you're likely to stop. Use it tonight.

[Kelly Chen]

Why would you not want him to use the item tonight? Now that the scum know he has it, he's a target and would lose it upon his death. I say better to use than not.

Hm, I kind of doubt scum will NK Nai over this item. Even if it stops kills, it doesn't incriminate anyone like a normal block would.

I was mainly saying I don't think there is any need to prove whether he

has

the item. I don't have a problem with him using it tonight, to make sure he has the chance.

[Norinel]

Just over 71 hours to deadline.

I wonder if the

mod

can clarify this. Do we need to leave our tents to pass artifacts?

Yes. (With the standard disclaimers that any private info can override this, and I can't confirm or deny whether leaving tents means anything at all from a game perspective)

Vote Count:

HackerHuck- 3 (ShadowLurker, CrashTextDummie, Kelly Chen)
Nai- 2 (Coron, Machiaveillian-Mafia)
ShadowLurker- 1 (Zindaras)
Coron- 1 (Nai)

Not voting (4): Apeiron, GreenLiquid, HackerHuck, Nightfall

6 to lynch, 3 at deadline