NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Juls]

I don't want a lynch before we hear any sort of explanation (hell, I didn't even get to post before the last lynch), but Wake, you better explain yourself quick.

Yeah we don't have to rush it. I can't believe we have flipped this game. I thought for sure we had no chance of winning. Now I am getting excited again.

[Juls]

Why is it highly-likely? I think it is more likely that he was the last scum hoping to gambit as a vig until Aeronaut got lynched. But I don't know. I have put him in derp-town slot this whole game.

[Juls]

BP's gonna flip town.

You do? I mean I'm open to a case. I thought they were scummy earlier with the lurkiness but the quotes hard to wrap my head around.

[Juls]

He's been in my top 2 reads for the whole game. Granted, my other one was Alina. And why is that town sounding? At all...I see it as very scummy. He's trying to get people to stop voting BP without putting much effort as to not seem scummy.

I thought that was after the lynch but before the flip?

[Juls]

He is flipping scum. And both Boon and Brood are just as town as BP is scum, despite their recent posts. Lynching either of them would be an equally large mistake as not lynching BP today would have been.

Oh shit...just found this. Brood is clear too!

[Juls]

<3 your crumbling ass Aegor!

[Juls]

Oh damn, boon found it milliseconds before me

[Juls]

3. TheAdrienC
5. Wake88
6. Burning_TowN
7. shaddowez

At least one scum here, maybe two. I want to lynch AdrienC. I have wanted to all game. Please give me this! Please!

[Juls]

Why is Adrien town again?

He's not.

[Juls]

By the way, what is a fibonacci?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number

[Juls]

Juls, if I was scum, you wouldn't be alive.

WIFOM

[Juls]

Cause I have been so effective in getting people to lynch you?

[Juls]

Keep in mind, Cabd and Alina both died on odd nights, which makes my odd night vig make sense.

But what about scum and SK. What were they doing those nights?

[Juls]

D6 - Lynch Adrien
N6 - boon dies
D7 - lynch Burning
N7 - wake kills shadow. If he is scum brood won't die
D8 - if shadow dies then day 8 it will be me, brood, and wake and they can lynch me. If brood dies then it's wake.

This is obviously from my perspective as being town. What do you think boon?

[Juls]

N7 should say "brood will die"

[Juls]

Well shit, I say they can lynch me but I just set scum-wake up for a win. Hmmm. At least it would come down to confirmed town deciding.

[Juls]

I agree with shad but I just don't understand wakes thought process as scum claiming the targets.

[Juls]

D6 - Lynch Adrien
N6 - boon dies
D7 - lynch Burning
N7 - wake kills shadow. If he is scum brood won't die
D8 - if shadow dies then day 8 it will be me, brood, and wake and they can lynch me. If brood dies then it's wake.

This is obviously from my perspective as being town. What do you think boon?

I mean, if my situation is improbable, I don't understand why a Wake lynch wouldn't be good now.

And aww, this is why I like playing the fool!!!! I never get NK'd as the fool...

My plan was to give you some warm fuzzies and let wake rat out himself (by killing brood)

[Juls]

D6 - Lynch Adrien
N6 - boon dies
D7 - lynch Burning
N7 - wake kills shadow. If he is scum brood won't die
D8 - if shadow dies then day 8 it will be me, brood, and wake and they can lynch me. If brood dies then it's wake.

This is obviously from my perspective as being town. What do you think boon?

I disagree with this. There's arguments that could be made for N7 and D8, along with the fact you're assuming they'll keep you alive and kill Boon or me.

Seeing as you are in that list of potential scum, I don't really care about your opinion (no offense). Mafia WILL kill a Boon and Brood because they are confirmed town. They would be super dumb to kill me or you (if you are town)

[Juls]

How many scummers do we think are left? Could Wake be the last one?

1probably, 2 at most.

[Juls]

VOTE: Juls

What the fuck? Are you kidding me?

[Juls]

I swear to Aegor if you guys lynch me this is the stupidest town ever.

[Juls]

Did you miss the part where I cleared you ANd Brood?

[Juls]

I'm just brainstorming, not setting this as the 100% plan.

I want to lynch Adrien and Wake but seeing as boon is clear I was saying let's wait until after n7 to let him prove hisself.

[Juls]

Hurry up so I can tell you how absolutely fucking stupid you are and then go to bed.

[Juls]

Shadow is scum. After you fuck us over and lynch me, please kill Adrien/shadow/wake

See how she is jumping on the turn of the tides....

[Juls]

Ok, you go with that...and when you lose this fucking game be ready for me to ride the shit out of you in the dead thread because you will be right behind me. This game is full of village idiots. I have had wrong reads, absolutely, but I'm fucking town and it pisses me off that you can't see that

[Juls]

And crap, I forgot to add my reads list:

Town -

Not_Mafia, Salamence20/Cabd

,

Alina,

Scarab

,

Boonskies,

BP

Scum - AdrienC,

Mirahawks, Damon_Gant,

Aeronaut

Back/Forth -

farside

, Wake,

SKOT

Unknown - Aegor, everyone else(?)

I'll try to be perfect in the future.

[Juls]

And as for post 1018, SKOT didn't claim even night when he claimed and was telling me I was an idiot basically for not knowing that. Of course I am going to clarify.

[Juls]

I mean, there's 5 or 6 town still left, most likely 6, with the most likely 1 scum being left. With Brood and myself being pretty much confirmed town, I say we have a good chance of winning regardless of a myslynch, a myslynch that I actually don't quite think will happen.

Congratulations, you can reclaim your title as fool. I am not 100% certain who is scum of the ones I listed so lynching me is just getting scum one step closer to winning. But thanks for reminding me what a shitfest this game is. And to think I actually thought we could start putting shit together and winning. I forgot where I am clearly.

Just lynch me and get it over with. I don't want to play this game anymore. I'm done.

[Juls]

Guys, let's not overreact. I want to hear from Wake before we even think of moving anywhere else.

Fake.

[Juls]

By the way, it should be noted that Adrien never did respond to my case on him. Shadow started on me as soon as boon did and tn has lurked all game. Wake basically claimed to kill 2 targets when only 2kills a night hav happened and it's proven we have a scum and a serial killer. Burning town has a whopping 61 posts all game (most not more than 5-10 words). But I'm scum?

Also, what is scum-Juls motivation for 1) holding a vote on wake, 2) trying to have a debate about what BT said before BPs flip, 3) lynching Aeronaut, 4) looking for and announcing the clears by Aegor.

Please, answer these.

[Juls]

You see, I had a suspicion, but her reaction really makes me want her lynched toDay. Only one vote was cast upon you. There was no reason to react the way you did. Super oversensitive.

Of course I am sensitive to the one of two confirmed townies voting me. If it were shad, Adrien, BT, or Wake I wouldn't bat an eye but they are going to sheep you. So yeah, I am pissed that the one active person that I know to be town is fucking it up.

[Juls]

Shadow is scum. After you fuck us over and lynch me, please kill Adrien/shadow/wake

See how she is jumping on the turn of the tides....

Well, considering I was questioning your voting spec before Boon voted you, and I didn't actually place a vote on you, I'm not sure how you can say I'm jumping on anything. I'm still waiting to hear from Wake before placing a vote, but you are definitely top on my list right now.

Shocker.

[Juls]

And I'm done defending her. Have fun, Boon.

Lol, you're white knighting because you know I will flip town. You will try to avoid being on this atrocious lynch. Don't worry, I'm town-flailing. Nothing will stop my lynch so you can hop on the train, it won't hurt you.

[Juls]

But they haven't sheeped me. And if they do, it's not under bad circumstances. You are looking scummier and scummier with everything you say.

Yet you haven't addressed any of my points about why I, as scum, would do the things I mentioned. I don't even want to fight this but my stubborn personality won't let it go that I am being lynched by a village idiot. So please, encourage the rest of them to join you because I really am done with this game. Last post, I am going to bed. See you in the dead thread where I will call you an idiot some more.

[Juls]

Please lynch shadow tomorrow

I have to calm down before I go to sleep cause I will not sleep at all. I absolutely hate getting lynched as town. I can't stand it because I know that I did something that made people think I am scum and that means I failed. I hate failing because it means I have to admit I am bad at something. I know, wifom wifom that I would BW failing as scum too. But I am done worrying, I am over it. So, let me just respond in a calm manner and then I am putting this ipad away.

1) First, shadow, I said holding my vote on wake. I meant at the beginning of the day, I waited instead of voting. None of your points make any sense.
2). If I am scum I absolutely know how BT will flip. Your points make no sense.
3) I did not think serial killer. In fact I speculated that he could be scum with Mirahawks
4) really? Who else went and looked? Oh that's right, nobody.

Brood, cause boon is going to be dead, please lynch shadow or Adrien tomorrow. I have been thinking about this wake thing and he might have thought he was going to be the kill last night and that's why he claimed his targets. I am not 100% sure but that's kinda where I am at right now.

Good luck town.

[Juls]

I would have Vig'd Juls Night 3 or 5, based on certain behavioral patterns.

For now, VOTE: Juls. If it gets to L-2 too quickly, I'll unvote temporarily.

Certain behavioral patterns. Great case. Well done. I will get right on my defense.

[Juls]

1) you being unable to comprehend does not make me scummy. I forget the question now but you asked a question, I answered your question. You repeatedly kept saying I was refusing to answer your question. Yeah, I gave up on even trying with you because you are completely contrarian person who does not understand how to interact with people .

2) So I am scummy because I asked you to vote for a serial killer? You're going to have to explain this because that's just, respectfully, a stupid reason to call me scum.

3) Being mean is scummy? Also a new one for me. Explain how saying that two kills a night, every night pointed to an odd night vig? You may have knowledge of this but that doesn't mean I do. I still think there are some shenanigans here.

4) So you say that I am incorrect. Again, still not 100% sold in this but how is being incorrect scummy again? Which lynches on scum did you lead? Oh, that's right, none. So, are you scum for being incorrect too?

5) I actually don't think I ever did this at all. Aegor did but I don't recall having this thought ever. I have been calling you dumb-town for a long time.

6). You have been insinuating a odd-night vig yes, but I could not understand why you did that. It felt like you were wanting to split with a second scum team or something so wanted them to know you were killing. I honestly did not understand it at all and wanted to hear your explanation. As I started to talk to boon I started thinking maybe you did it so we would know which kills were yours since you thought you would be the night kill.

[Juls]

Does NOT confirm you as town however. And didn't you claim two shot earlier?

VOTE: Adrien

[Juls]

I asked. Nice jump on my wagon. I confused you with Skrew in another game. Will link shortly. Both claims were around the same time

[Juls]

I asked and voted you because I already wanted to as mentioned previously. You acting like you are confirmed town is why I voted you. And what a surprise that scum would put me at L-1

[Juls]

Commuter

He flipped scum

[Juls]

Crap...don't know how my iphone truncated that

Claim: 2-shot Commuter
I'll get my closing thoughts out before bed

[Juls]

Does it matter? I will be dead and my alignment confirmed so don't be glib.

[Juls]

I'm getting lynched. I know that so I am giving my reads.

P-edit: it's relevant because it's a good fake claim for scum. And it may even be a scum commuter. But I'm done arguing with scum. Bye.

[Juls]

Someone hammer her.

Please.

[Juls]

Don't unvote me to slow the pace. Either unvote me because you know I'm town or put your vote back on me and lynch me. I'm not getting invested again just to be lynched.

[Juls]

Well it's either you or brood and sense you are more active it's probably you. Lynching me is not lynching scum.

[Juls]

we need to know who alt slipped, not their name just to know who said what they said.

[Juls]

I think that leaves Burning/Juls/Shadow then.

Do not leave Adrien out of that list.

[Juls]

Or he is a scum commuter. He had no motivation to claim when he did and he has been left alive the entire game. These two things by the self make me think he is scum. But there are also his extremely fake posts early in the game, his white knighting, his horrendously ugly "lynch all liars" jump on my wagon, his refusal to respond in detail to the very detailed case/ dialogue that I presented about/to him. None of these things strike me as town. I believe he used the fact that I "ignored" wake early as an opportunity to ignore me because he saw how others defended me and town-read me. I admit that I may be way too close to this opinion that he is scum to let it go but I really wish others would look at if objectively and see if tHere is merit.

[Juls]

And as much as I want to give it, wake does not get a free pass. Logic says there have been 2 kills per night. There was only one kill once we lost the SK. It certainly doesn't add up to odd-night vig.

[Juls]

If there is even a chance that we think AdrienC/Wake scum team we need to be lynching Adrien. If Adrien flips town you can clear wake.

[Juls]

Also look at mafia power roles compared to town power roles. We have quite a few. Does commuter make more sense as a town role or a scum role? To me it is scum because all the power we have. Adrien is immune to it.

[Juls]

I'm not disregarding your later points, but want to address the first couple you made. If you read through the post I made, I pointed out the fact that he can't be a scum commuter unless he's not the only scum. Unless I don't understand how commuter works, he could not have killed and been safe from a night kill. Your second point is completely backwards. You're assuming that scum would try to kill him for claiming to be commuter, and wondering why he's still alive, but he can't be night killed if he is a commuter...I'm really trying, but having a hard time following your logic on that one.

I did read your post but I must have missed that. The first poinT you make is valid. The second part though is wrong. He is completely susceptible to kills on even nights (if he is telling the truth).

As for the wake Thing, my brain has a hard Time ignoring the obvious for the less obvious.

I guess we need tO ask ourselves is 15v5v1 completely implausible? I am not sure enough about game balance to say either way.

Sorry for all the odd caps, in bed on ipad and too lazy to fix.

[Juls]

It just doesn't add up for us to have a commuter, two opposite night vigs, a even night tracker, a Fibonacci night cop ( which is basically a cop every night except 4), and a odd night doctor against two goons, a godfather, and a ? [plus sk]

[Juls]

Large Normals may only have two unique, non-normal roles in them.

Fibonacci-Night Cop and Odd-Night Commuter makes two. If anyone else here is a unique role, we can end the game quickly, because someone would be lying.

Good posting

[Juls]

In fact we should probably just mass claim to see if something doesn't fit. I can start (although I think I already claimed). Vanilla Townie. I popcorn to burning_town

By the way, I tried to draw the night kill on whatever day it was we lynched HS. I came in crumbing cop in the hopes that I was right about Adrien and then he would get lynched and they would kill me. But I guess I failed cause I got sidetracked by HS.

[Juls]

The evidence says that you are scum. I have admitted I might be too close to the case and asked others to take a closer look.

Care to explain why you refused and continue to refuse to address my case toward you?

[Juls]

Can you explain why you eliminate burning town?

[Juls]

Ok shadow, your case is well laid out and I agree. But...have you met wake? Do you think he could gambit so wildly? I probably need to meta him. I mean all you say is reasonable and the logical side of me definitely thinks wake is full of shit. Let me research him some...

[Juls]

I hate you by the way for making me read through wakes games. It's a mess! So far he has replaced out every time he was mafia. Still looking for a game he posted beyond the first day as scum.

[Juls]

Well that was completely unhelpful. Only one mafia game to completion. Here it is but he didn't really do/say much. Sounds like the town stomped all over themselves.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=31540

[Juls]

Yes I agree scum have to have more power than what's flipped.

[Juls]

I would have Vig'd Juls Night 3 or 5, based on certain behavioral patterns.

For now, VOTE: Juls. If it gets to L-2 too quickly, I'll unvote temporarily.

Can you explain the first part? What stopped you?

[Juls]

I think we all need to claim today no matter who we lynch. I don't want any bs claims tomorrow because IF there happens to be 2 scum left, we are in lylo tomorrow.

[Juls]

I think BT has lurked a lot and his and Adrien's hop on my wagon were the ugliest. I honestly wouldn't mind lynching any of Adrien, wake, shadow, or BT just to narrow the pool but I mainly keep talking myself into/out of scum reads on the four. Like wake bringing up that if we had another non-normal role claimed we could find scum. That's a townie thought. Shadow actually did some leg work and logically approached wake/Adrien. That seemed town. Adrien continues to just point and preaching to the crowd instead of building a case on anyone. And BT just lurks. So I think today I am at a place of wanting an Adrien lynch first and foremost, then a BT, then Wake, then shadow. But that could change again...

Tldr; I don't know

[Juls]

The one and only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if Adrien was a scum-commuter then how did wake shoot/miss him AND a kill take place. That's the only thing holding me back a little on Adrien.

[Juls]

A Town PR must have stopped my kill attempt, because I selected Adrien. The remaining Scum killed Mirhawk.

Why do you say a "town Pr"?

[Juls]

Why is he alive?

Farside likely protected him.

It could be multiball, but unless the Vig messed up and killed her, how did Scum know to target her?

Um...you said you killed Cabd night one. Why did you crumb as if you killed farside by mistake?

[Juls]

If there's an Odd-Night Vig, I hope you take Juls out.

Why didn't you?

[Juls]

Please explain to me your kill choices? You had to be pissed at me for hammering SKOT. Why didn't you kill me?

[Juls]

Boon distancing himself from the Alina kill...

...do you reckon he killed Alina? Boonskiies, please weigh in on this asap.

Why did you support this thought process?

[Juls]

You still haven't explained why you chose cabd and Alina or why you think killing me would have pointed to you? Don't you want to kill scum?

[Juls]

Wake,
I know I posted a lot there but the things I need you to address are:
1) why did you crumb to have killed farside n1
2) why did you choose cabd and Alina
3) why didn't you kill me after I hammered SKOT but came back in and voted me on d4?
4) why did you encourage broods thought process that boon killed Alina?

A little motivation
VOTE: Wake (L-2)

[Juls]

Still haven't explained why you killed cabd and Alina. You are avoiding it.

[Juls]

I did not explain my reason for killing them, because I don't recall being asked. Not only that, but I'm an extremely busy individual.

You had time to craft that load of bull shit post so I think you have time to answer a simple question.

Fail tags? What fail tags? (Toomai fixed them.)

[Juls]

Mod, please fix my fail tags....<3

[Juls]

If there's an Odd-Night Vig, I hope you take Juls out.

Why didn't you?

Isn't it obvious? I didn't want to die yet.

Everyone, Adrien and I are Town. If one of us dies, the other is confirmed Town.

As for your

deliberate attempt

idiocy on SKOT, I had self-control in not killing you. However, I'm beginning to think I should have stuck with you as my kill for that Night.

Please elaborate on the bolded. That is what I interpreted when I asked why you thought my death would point back to you. How would you have died?

[Juls]

And...he still....doesn't....answer a simple....question. If you are mislynched it's your fault because a town would answer that question.

[Juls]

I'm in lala land. How can you read what just transpired and not vote wake?

[Juls]

I'm still town and you are a fucking moron.

[Juls]

Congrats on killing the one person trying to figure things out. You are stellar at this game boon!

[Juls]

No you are scums best asset...lynching town

[Juls]

Boon...do not ever play in a game with me again. Please.

[Juls]

It's your monitor...better get that looked at

[Juls]

My musings...

Sharpest-knife-on-tree - I hammered you out of spite against wake. Least town thing I did all game and I apologize.
Cabd - very obviously town. I cannot believe that you were shot by a town-vig. Plus you replaced my BFF Salamence so that makes you doubly awesome.
TheAdrienC - I struggle with what to say to you. Your fakeness can be forgiven because you were, well, fake, cause you had to be. Hopefully you can improve on that. But then I think back to your BS about me misspelling your name and threatening to report me, and running Salamence out of the game and I think that's just a shitty way to play, even as scum. Take that for what you will.
reinoe - you were more vocal in the dead thread then you were in game. I barely remember you during the game.
Wake88 - will likely never play with you again. You need to learn to talk to people, stop OMGUSing, and get over this idea that the game revolves around you. And stop bugging the moderator to prod players or players to post when it's been less than 24 hours since the game opened.
Burning_TowN {Burning_Earth, tn5421} - I thought you were scum primarily for being lurky. I would have probably lynched you if your wagon grew.
shaddowez - You were very logical in end game and that worried me since you were kinda quiet for the most part. I think you may have been drowned out by the noise in retrospect. Nice playing with you.
Damon_Gant - I don't remember you at all other than you were on my scum list at points.
Mirhawk - You scared me because you agreed with me. That was a rarity in this game.
Not_Mafia - I have read you as town in this our 3rd game together. That scares me cause you were scum in one of them. I realize that you are going to be a difficult person for me to read. But I would love to play more games with you.
Aegor - we didn't always agree but I do appreciate a player who can have civil discourse. I would love to play with you again.
TheWayItEnds - you drew the wrong alignment. Wish we could have been on the same team.
farside22 - you're lucky you died early
Boonskiies - you had no reason to hammer me. I just don't understand someone who plays this game to what? Last as long as possible? Hammer people? I'm still really irritated by the way you handled my lynch.
BroodKingEXE - congrats on being confirmed town cause no one would have known based on your content.
Juls - I didn't play a good game by far. I hammered a tracker, I couldn't convince people to lynch Adrien, and I got way more irritated than I wanted to given recent games where I tried to take a calmer approach. I am disappointed with myself.
Aeronaut - Town MVP. The reason I pushed your lynch is you white knighted too much. Get that under control and you will probably be very successful as scum.
HunterSeeker - village idiot that should be reported for playing against wincon.
Clusk92 - don't remember him.
BP - I thought you were town. Good thing Aegor investigated you and I believed in Aegor cause I would likely have never lynched you otherwise.
Alina - I already mentioned, be more confident in your play. Otherwise you were very good.

[Juls]

Happy birthday Mirahawks

[Juls]

mirhawks*. Stupid ipad autocorrects that for some reason

[Juls]

do I get a shout out

Go back and read my posts, I know...you couldn't be bothered to in game but I literally pointed out about 30+ things that came across as fake. Then read Salamences posts to get even more. The rage posts were super obviously not real.

[Juls]

Oops, the quote should not be with that response...
Notscience - I went with the final mod list. You weren't around much and I think you hit the game at a particularly busy time for me so I don't have a lot of comments. Be more science, less notscience!

[Juls]

I didn't do it in game because I felt like I was digging a deeper hole, haha.

You dug a deeper hole with me for NOT responding and I am irritated no one else held your feet to the fire about it.

[Juls]

VOTE: notscience

[Juls]

I have lots of flaws. The difference between me and you is that I see them and am willing to change or at least try to if I feel there is a need. You have no clue how to speak to people in a civil manner within the game of mafia. You treat everyone as if they are claimed-scum and you feel you are beyond reproach. Your reads change with the wind and, in this game, you made very poor choices with your first two night kills. You also berated people for not believing your claim when your claim was not obvious in anyway based on how the kills fell and the people who were killed. I don't know how you act in real life and I know this game brings out our worst traits but I recommend that you at least consider what others have said even if you discount everything I say.

[Juls]

My point exactly, hours earlier he was confirmed town to you and you were going to shoot the remaining of bt/shadow. The entire town played terrible, there is nothing to be proud of in this win. Without the serial killer we lose 3 days ago.

[Juls]

So Adrien, your night V/LA: Fakdrien or Adrien?