Newbie 384: All over 'cept the finger-pointing!

[Yosarian2]

Ah, cool, the game's started.

No random vote just yet.

[Yosarian2]

And why haven't we heard from Yosarian?

Um, I posted just two posts before you did, windfish...

[Yosarian2]

fos:truncator

I don't know if it was a scum tell or just carelessness, but putting someone at -1 that early is very anti-town. It's even worse that you didn't even mention you were puitting him at -1; someone could have easily hammered him and not even noticed.

Remember guys, short days hurt the town.

With that,

Unvote, vote WindFish

fos:Albert B. Rampage

Why Windfish of all people? He was the one who pointed out we were at lynch -1 and how bad a thing that was. If you agree with that, why are you voting for him?

[Yosarian2]

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

... I am?

[Yosarian2]

And why haven't we heard from Yosarian?

Um, I posted just two posts before you did, windfish...

He probably meant actual content in your posts.

It's kind of funny that you simulposted this at the same time I was posting my analysis post.

Anyway, my initial post didn't really have any less content then a random vote would. I usually random vote about half the time when I play, based mostly on if I'm in the mood or not.

[Yosarian2]

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

... I am?

Sure.

Hmm. Guess I might have been somewhat quite in the last newbie I was in with you. I woudln't say that's my normal playstyle though. However, as that's the only game you've seen me in, it's a fair observation from your point of view, and therefore one that actually gives me some good vibes about you.

[Yosarian2]

There was more to it than that as well. Sorry about the unconventional move. I thought it helped and no one died.

The town is quite lucky no one died. It wouldn't have surprised me at all if someone else had voted without checking the vote-counts and ended the day on page one quite accidently after your move. If you're pro-town, it was an incredibly risky thing to do; or I could see you being scum, hoping someone else would mess up and lynch him.

So, you knew you were putting him at lynch -1 then?

[Yosarian2]

And Albert, I'm still a bit confused. Why is it you voted for WindFish again? Youi keep saying that something he said "tickled you"; could you clarify that?

[Yosarian2]

thedocsali8ve: I do appriciate your caution in not putting truncator at -1 just yet. However, just because he's new, dosn't mean we should just ignore anti-town behavior on his part; how else can we figure out his alignment?

Anyway, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Truncator, did you know you were putting him at -1 when you voted?

[Yosarian2]

Truncator, did you know you were putting him at -1 when you voted?

Yes. I also knew that someone would change their vote and I hoped it would be before the 4th vote came in. I wanted to see who was quick to change. It may have been risky, but you don't always get the information you need by sitting on your thumb.

There's no way you could have "known" that.

If you KNEW you were casting the third vote, then WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO at least???

[Yosarian2]

Unvote, vote Yosarian2

I don't like him much, and would readily lynch him today unless something unexpected happens.

He acts defensive, then quickly jumps on the offensive. He states the obvious. Also, as an side-reason, he is more chatty than his other games, as pickem has said.

"More chatty then my other games?"



I'm quite often one of the more active people in whatever game I'm in; not always, I wasn't in that one other newbie game I played in, but usually. How many of my games have you looked at to come to the conclusion that I'm "more chatty here then in other games"?

And yes, when someone attacks me, I defend myself, and when I see someone do something scummy, I go on the offensive. That's how the game is supposed to be played! Geez. Pro-town players NEED to go on the offensive, because that's the ONLY WAY TO FIND SCUM. And everyone should defend themselves whenver attacked, that's just common sense.

Everything you're attacking me for (defending myself, posting a lot, going on the offensive to try to put pressure on someone who looks scummy, and "stating the obveous") are all EXACTALLY what EVERY pro-town person should do in EVERY game. If you want to find scum, look for people who aren't doing those things.

[Yosarian2]

Not quite, Yos. You sounded over-defensive when WindFish made a mistake. Then the next post you submitted, you stated the obvious, and FoS'd me with questions instead of explanations. I find that scummy. Your reactions ?

Um

WindFish attacked me, and I pointed out his mistake. That's not "overly defensive", that's exactally the right amount of defensive. That's what every pro-town player should do; if someone attacks you, you should point out the holes in their logic. Which I did.

And I FOS'd you because your move didn't seem to make much sense to me at the time. You voted windfish, even though windfish seemed to be saying the exact same thing that you were, that we shouldn't end the day so quickly with a rapid bandwagon. The apparent contradiction in your vote seemed odd, and possibly scummy to me, so I fos'd you and demanded an explination. I never really got a good one from you on that issue, btw.

And now you're voting for me...because I FOS'd you?

[Yosarian2]

Way to go to misrepresenting facts. WindFish did

not

attack you. He asked why we haven't heard of you because he didn't see your post. You responded in what seemed like an overreaction to me.

This is an over-reaction?

And why haven't we heard from Yosarian?

Um, I posted just two posts before you did, windfish...

I think it was a perfectly normal response to an odd question, myself.

And I FOS'd you because your move didn't seem to make much sense to me at the time. You voted windfish, even though windfish seemed to be saying the exact same thing that you were, that we shouldn't end the day so quickly with a rapid bandwagon. The apparent contradiction in your vote seemed odd, and possibly scummy to me, so I fos'd you and demanded an explination. I never really got a good one from you on that issue, btw.

Here are the posts made.

Whoa, putting pickem at lynch-1 out of the gate? Is it bandwagon?

And why haven't we heard from Yosarian?

I'm going to swing my vote over to alter the pressure balance.

Unvote: Yosarian2
Vote: truncator

Remember guys, short days hurt the town.

With that,

Unvote, vote WindFish

Granted, we both unvoted for the same reason, but I would not put someone in the same predicament I just got someone out of. Therefore I didn't put my vote at the same place WindFish did. Why I put my vote on WF was a) There were no votes on him at the time and b) Some fling of the moment with his pressure-balance sentence, which he clarified.
[/quote]

The thing is that, you said you were in favor of avoiding short days. He has just managed to do a large part of saving the town from having short days, by pointing out that we were now at -1; if he had wanted a short day, he could have just lurked and waited and hope some other newbie voted without thinking. And you vote for him in the very same post, for some odd reason that didn't (and still dosn't) make sense to me.

Is that a big deal? No, it's not really. Which is why I just FOS'd you instead of voting for you. There is so little information day 1, that any minor thing I see that's wierd, I draw attention to, in order to try and advance the game.

If anyone is over-reacting or being over defensive here, Albert, it's you. I FOS's you and asked you a question because you did something that looked odd to me. I never even voted for you. And you're lashing out at me in response.

You are a scumbag because you misrepresent people and their intentions, which are both very strong indicators of your scumminess.

You were the one that characterised my response to Windfish as a "defense", so I naturally refered to Windfish's question as an "attack". I wasn't trying to say "misrepresent" Windfish, I was just trying to respond to you. If WindFish's "Where's Yos?" comment isn't an attack, then I don't see how you can call my "Um, I just posted" comment a defense, let alone "over-defensive".

Your behavior here is really bothering me. You're acting like you're sure I'm scum, based on absolutly nothing. What, exactally, have I "misrepresented"? Who's "intentions" did I misrepresent to justify your vote on me? And don't use the Windfish thing as an excuse here, becuae that happened after you voted for me, not before.

It's rather ironic that you're misrepresenting me here in order to accuse me of misrepresenting others, and that you're accusing me of being over-defensive while your whole attack on me seems to pretty clearly be a massive over-reaction to a page 2 FOS I made against you.

[Yosarian2]

Bah, messed up the quote tags there, but you get the idea.

[Yosarian2]

Me and WindFish, as well as the other

townies

all agree that short days hurt the town. So what ? That doesn't mean he is town. Besides that, I was fishing (pardon the pun) for a reaction.

(shrug) Like I said, it wasn't a big deal, just something that didn't make much sense to me. And still dosn't, honestly, although I've got no problem with fishing for reactiosn this early, I don't quite see why you picked him. Anyway, I don't see why that makes ME scummy, for pointing out some wierd behavior in your play; obveously I was fishing for reactiosn myself.

In your original "defense", I find it awkward that you took the trouble to start your reply with "Um", the exact same thing you started your major defense to my accusations with.

So, what's wrong with that? It's just an expression I use when the person I'm talking to is overlooking the obveous, I suppose; I often say things like "Um" or "(shrug)" or "(sigh)" or whatever. Want me to find examples of me saying "um" as town?

This has become my 2nd, and slightly stronger tell. The other thing that amused me was that you finished it with "...", maybe signifying annoyance.

Not annoyance, so much as surprise/ confusion at his post.

I think a townie in that situation would just re-quote his post, or make a polite joke about the mistake, or perhaps ask a question to WF.

...or just calmly point out that I already posted and ask for clarification, which was what I did. "Re-quoting my post" would be silly when it was just two posts up, and at that point it wasn't so much a matter of "oh, he made a mistake" as "what the heck?" There was certanly no way I could have know he was "just making a mistake" until after I asked him.

Excuse me, Yos, but I don't see the irony. What I see, is possible scum that I would like to continue to interact with.

What I see is that you're OMGUS voting me here, attacking me because I attacked you. You're also misrepresenting my posts and trying to make a case out of air. And what's worse, you yourself are more guilty then I of the very scum tells you're accusing me of, namely being over-defensive, misrepresenting posts, and being illoigically agressive.

Every time you post, you come up with a new excuse for voting me, and none of them make much sense. I'm just not sure at this point if you're scum trying to invent an excuse to get me lynched, or just a newbie townie who's unwilling to consider the fact that he might be wrong.

And I also see that you've refused to answer my question. What "misrepresentations" did I make, exactally?

[Yosarian2]

If you KNEW you were casting the third vote, then WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO at least???

Why state the obvious?

I don't know that it was that obvious. Your vote just looked like another random vote, and I might not have noticed he was at lynch -1 until the next votecount.

Basically, putting someone at lynch -1 that early in a game where we lose where we lynch wrong twice is a bad idea no matter what. In any case, if you are going to put someone at lynch -1, you should generally point out that you're doing so, just so no one accidently lynches him without noticing the current votecount (or, conversly, drops the hammer and then later tries to say "hey, I didn't notice he was at lynch -1!"). It was a very dangerous play, and the fact that you didn't even point out that you were putting him at lynch -1 makes it more dangerous. Because anyone who wasn't paying attention to the game very closely would have probably just mistaken this post for a random vote and not noticed the danger:

Anyone who proclaims them self a genius, especially in an area in which I am also a genius, deserves to be lynched, guilty or not.

Vote: pickemgenius

[Yosarian2]

Again. Sorry for the unconventional move. I didn't realize it would upset you, the one who wasn't -1, so much. It happened. No one died. Nothing you can do about it. I'm sure you can expect more from me that you might not agree with in this game. Unless you (or they) get rid of me early. Throw out the SOP book and just roll with the flow, man. At least now I have a pretty good idea of where you stand. Unless you're just jacking with me to look pure.

All that said, I wouldn't have a problem doing it again.

(shug) It's not a matter of standard operating procedure, so much. Partly is that I just don't understand what you would expect to gain from that move if you were a good guy. If you wanted a reaction from him, or from others, if you wanted to scare him or shake him up to see what he would do, then why not make a bigger deal out of it? I could see a pro-town person intentioanlly trying a risky play just to shake things up and see how different people respond, but if you were trying to shake things up, why make it look like a meaningless random vote instead of making it more clear that you were bandwagoning?

[Yosarian2]

Yos, can I ask you what you think of thedocsalive ?

(shrug) Well, the main thing I've noted so far from him is his defense of truncator. I've got no major problem with thedocsalive at the monent, although if it does turn out truncator is scum then thedocsalive will go up on my suspicion list as a possible scum partner.

[Yosarian2]

Could you please answer my questions, truncator?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, you never actually answered these two questions:

Again. Sorry for the unconventional move. I didn't realize it would upset you, the one who wasn't -1, so much. It happened. No one died. Nothing you can do about it. I'm sure you can expect more from me that you might not agree with in this game. Unless you (or they) get rid of me early. Throw out the SOP book and just roll with the flow, man. At least now I have a pretty good idea of where you stand. Unless you're just jacking with me to look pure.

All that said, I wouldn't have a problem doing it again.

(shug) It's not a matter of standard operating procedure, so much. Partly is that I just don't understand what you would expect to gain from that move if you were a good guy. If you wanted a reaction from him, or from others, if you wanted to scare him or shake him up to see what he would do, then why not make a bigger deal out of it? I could see a pro-town person intentioanlly trying a risky play just to shake things up and see how different people respond, but if you were trying to shake things up, why make it look like a meaningless random vote instead of making it more clear that you were bandwagoning?

The questions are:

If you wanted a reaction from him, or from others, if you wanted to scare him or shake him up to see what he would do, then why not make a bigger deal out of it?

I could see a pro-town person intentioanlly trying a risky play just to shake things up and see how different people respond, but if you were trying to shake things up, why make it look like a meaningless random vote instead of making it more clear that you were bandwagoning?

You claim you knew what you were doing, and claim that you would do the exact same thing again, so if you could explain to me WHY you would do it the same way again it'd help me understand your thought process.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I'm really getting tired of waiting for Truncator to answer my questions and stuff, and I agree that it'd also be nice to hear who he finds scummy.

If he dosn't do some of that soon, I'll be tempted to put vote #3 on him.

[Yosarian2]

Maybe he's quiet because he is enjoying watching the paranoid town mob jump on the Lynch Truncator bandwagon and accomplishing his dirty work in the meantime. Put me at -1 and whomever casts the 4th vote, remember them. Remember the 3rd vote as well.

If you're town, you need to actually defend yourself and answer questions. Don't try to pull a "I'm not going to defend myself on purpose because then we'll see who lynches me and that'll show who the scum are!" thing. That dosn't work, because if you look scummy and refuse to answer questions about your actions, then anyone, town OR scum, WILL vote for you, and so who votes for you won't give the town any information. In fact, if a pro-town person keeps doing that, scum are likely to just sit back and watch as you tie the noose around your own neck. Not only that, I see scum try to pull the "I'm acting scummy on purpose!" defense all the time, so the fact that you're doing it dosn't give me a lot of confidence in you.

If you don't try to actually defend yourself/answer questions/state who you think is scum very, very soon, we WILL lynch you.

[Yosarian2]

I don't see how I'm acting "scummy" on purpose. I told y'all how I felt about things.

Truncator: Isn't that what you said, right here?

EBWOP:
Albert, on a quick re-read of the game, it appears you've completely avoided the truncator issue, besides seconding my question of truncator in post 95. Instead, you have cast suspicion on

Yosarian

. Any reason for this avoidance? What are your thoughts on truncator at the moment?

Maybe he's quiet because he is enjoying watching the paranoid town mob jump on the Lynch Truncator bandwagon and accomplishing his dirty work in the meantime. Put me at -1 and whomever casts the 4th vote, remember them. Remember the 3rd vote as well.

You said you were not answering the questions because you wanted "the paranoid town mob" to "jump on the lynch trucator bandwagon", on the theory that would give information based on who the 3rd and 4th votes are. That sounds like you were claiming you were refusing to answer the questions because you WANTED to look scummy so people would vote for you, which, like I said, makes absolutly no sense.

Now, is there some reason you're refusing to answer my questions?

[Yosarian2]

I really didn't think I would have to spell this out, but why make a big deal about it? I achieved the same effect while playing it cool. More so than I ever dreamed. I really didn't expect this much reaction out of it. I'm not much of a bold type yeller anyway.

If the effect you were going for was to get people to vote for you, then I guess you did. However, if you were trying to get a reaction from pickemgenius and/or about other people's reactiosn to pickemgenius, then you would have acoomplinshed that much more effectivly by making clear that he was near lynch; the way you did it, I think most people's reactions had more to do with the disengenuas nature of your post (where you tried to make it look like a random vote when it wasn't) then with anything about pickemgenius in specific.

I really just wanted to see who was paying attention and how everyone would react. All said, I think we got on the right track by luck. I still think pickemgenius is scum.

Ok. Why do you think pickemgenius is scum?

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure what's so "inconsistant" about Albert attacking me, getting a defense from me, liking my defense, and then not attacking me anymore.

[Yosarian2]

Windfish: Why did you just unvote truncator? You've done nothing but express suspicion for him all game, and he hasn't done anything pro-town looking lately. Am I missing something?

[Yosarian2]

All right. We can't afford to no-lynch, which is what will happen if the voting stays as it is. I might as well vote for the person I currently find to be most suspicious.

vote:truncator

ANd eveyone needs to get in here and post, all right?

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, some more scummy looking play from truncator here. Voting someone just in order to save yourself, with it still being 7 days left until deadline, dosn't seem especally pro-town to me.

[Yosarian2]

...

Why would you vote like that on the first post of the day in a lynch or lose situation? You know what a huge risk that is?

For that matter, why did you feel the need to hammer and end the day so quickly yesterday?

[Yosarian2]

...

Why would you vote like that on the first post of the day in a lynch or lose situation? You know what a huge risk that is?

For that matter, why did you feel the need to hammer and end the day so quickly yesterday?

The game was going nowhere, truncator didn't want to participate and he was scummy, I was bored, a combination of these factors and others.

Well, that kind of answers the second question, but what about the first one? Why did you vote like that on the first post of the day in a lynch or lose situation, especally as you apparently understand the danger of scum speedlynching if you vote wrong?

[Yosarian2]

There is always the possibility of Llama being scum gambling for a quick win here. If so, he would have to be scum with Albert, because normally with this gambit the scum claims cop with a guilty on an innocent, not the other way around.

I don't agree that he would have to be scum with albert. All the scum has to do is to make us think that he's the cop, and if we believe him, he wins because we don't lynch him today or tommorow.

However, if he was scum pulling a gambit, he'd know he was taking a risk. There's a 50/50 chance that there is a cop in the game. If there is, he would have been counterclaimed, and perhaps lynched. Just in case of that, he very likely would not have wanted to connect himself to his scum partner quite that obveously. My guess, and it's just a guess, is that if Llama is scum, he's probably scum with either you or with pickemgenius. That way, even if he was counterclaimed and lynched, we then might lynch Albert tommorow and his partner would win. Not only that, but I can't really see Albert and Llama being scum together; if they are, they've certanly done an execellent job of distancing themselves from each other.

So, from my point of view, if Llama is telling the truth, then the scum pair HAS to be you, Docs, and pickemgenius. If he's lying scum, his scum partner could be Albert, but I think it's more likely that if he's lying scum his scum partner is either thedocsalive OR pickemgenius. So either way, I think we should probably lynch one of the two of you today, and then we can figure out tommorow if Llama is telling the truth or if he's lying.

[Yosarian2]

Hah. I KNEW the scum would fake-claim doc, if I didn't claim in my post. Fell right into my trap, too.

I figured the scum was just waiting for everyone else to post first, to make sure no one else claimed to be a doctor. Once everyone else spoke up, and none of them claimed doctor, I figured the scum would take the gambit and claim to be doctor.

vote:pickemgenius

He is lying. I am the real doctor.

[Yosarian2]

(nods) Like I said, I knew that whichever one of (pickem/docs) was scum would mistakenly claim doc once I posted without claiming.

If pickem really was doc, it wouldn't make any sense for him to wait until after I posted to claim; he would either claim right after Llama if he beleved him, or else if he wasn't sure if he believed him he would wait until he was in immedeate danger of being lynched. The only way the TIMING of pickem's claim makes sense is if he was scum who wanted to wait until everyone else had posted before claiming.

And the post above is quite scummy as well. Just basically Picekm declaring himself town, over and over again, without actually referencing any in-game evidence to convince us; he hopes if he just talks as if he was town who is expecting to win, everyone will believe him. He didn't think there really was a doctor, he figured his fake claim would set him home clear, but now he's stuck and he's just trying to BS his way though it. The ironic claim that I was the one he protected was a nice touch, though. Tell me, did you think of that before you claimed doctor, or only after I counterclaimed you?

In any case, it's up to the other two pro-town people now. You need to go back and read the thread. You need to read day 1 over again, and figure out which one of us looks scummier to you. You need to both get this right, because if one of you is wrong, pickem's scum mate will drop the hammer and the scum will win.

[Yosarian2]

I waited to claim to see if the cop was going to get couter claimed, I figured if there isn't a counter clain then it's game set match, that's why I waited.

Go ahead look back at the game, see who's been kissing ass, and see who's been trying to find scum.

Look at the trunc bandwagon, and see who added more to the discussion day 1, see who was actively trying to lynch scum, or find out who was just coasting along.

Right. I think if you look back, it's pretty clear I added a lot more to the discussion day 1 then pickem did. He just OMGUS voted trunc, tried to buddy up to me early with posts like this:

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

in defense of my not posting a lot yet this game.

He then kept his vote on Truc for a long time without giving a better reason then this:

You're right. Third vote doesn't = scum.
It raises an eyebrow though.

And then he quietly coasted along behind me, agreeing with things I was saying without contributing much himself.

Truncator, did you know you were putting him at -1 when you voted?

Yes. I also knew that someone would change their vote and I hoped it would be before the 4th vote came in. I wanted to see who was quick to change. It may have been risky, but you don't always get the information you need by sitting on your thumb.

There's no way you could have "known" that.

QFT

Unvote, vote Yosarian2

I don't like him much, and would readily lynch him today unless something unexpected happens.

He acts defensive, then quickly jumps on the offensive. He states the obvious. Also, as an side-reason, he is more chatty than his other games, as pickem has said.

And yes, when someone attacks me, I defend myself, and when I see someone do something scummy, I go on the offensive. That's how the game is supposed to be played! Geez. Pro-town players NEED to go on the offensive, because that's the ONLY WAY TO FIND SCUM. And everyone should defend themselves whenver attacked, that's just common sense.

QFT X 3



:good posting X2:

truncator wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:
Could you please answer my questions, truncator?


I didn't realize I still had unanswered questions with you. You keep bringing up the same points.



Check post 78.I think that's what he was talking about

Pretty constantly just agreeing with me and hiding behind my points. Which is very often what a scum does with a pro-town person; rather then set up their own arguments, they just agree with the pro-town person, coast behind them, and, as pickemgenius himself put it, "kiss ass" instead of "trying to find scum". Instead, while keeping his vote on trucator, he kept making fense sitting posts like this one:

I still feel truncator needs to list other people who he finds scummy.

I don't have any solid thoughts on anybody really right now.

Though I get some weird vibes from trunc, but that could be because of his unorthodoxness.???

Fense sitting like that is a scum tell; scum don't like to commit themselves too fully to a townie bandwagon, because it's likely to make them look bad later.

Ok. Why do you think pickemgenius is scum?

Naturally, I didn't think pickem was scum in the beginning. But since that time he has been constantly prodding on me and trying to round up more votes to lynch me. I believe he is doing so because he knows I'm in a unique spot with everyone eyeing me and he knows I'm pro-town because he is scum.

I really wish windfish would remove his vote for me. I still think we are on the same side. I've had 2 votes long enough now that I think one of the two current votes are scum. It wouldn't seem so suspicious anymore if 2 more scum votes came along and lynched me. 1 has voted for me, the other is waiting.

First paragraph:

I haven't been trying to "round up" votes to lynch you. Just because I think you're scummy won't make me actively try and change the minds of others. That's their own choice on how they feel about you. I've been throwing out scenarios at best.

Don't ask for people to unvote you. You asking Windfish to do so strikes me as weird. SHOW US YOU'RE TOWN if you want us to unvote you.


That's all for now.

Now, he's saying that he "thinks truncator is scummy" but still hasn't really explained why. He tries to deny responsibility for the bandwagon, but stays on it.

Anyway, take a look at day 1 yourself, everyone. Hold pickem to his own standards; look at who was really trying to find scum day 1.

[Yosarian2]

Notice the complete lack of in game examples Yos used in his most recent post, it's almost amazing how he just proclaimed himself town, and town over and over again in that post.

yeah, nice try though.

Nice misrepresentation there, scum. In that post I discussed the timing of your claim, and discribed the post where you responded to me. Those are both in game evidence, unlike your post.

[Yosarian2]

:eyebrow: you're pushing this idea pretty hard, huh pickem? That makes me wonder if I was right about the Pickem/Llama scumgroup.

Oh, hell. Well, just in case anyone had any doubts I was cop still, I breadcrumbed it in post 178:

That dosn't actually prove you are a cop, it just means that you as early as post 178 you were already considering making a cop claim at some point in the future. Very different thing.

Anyway, it's a logical idea, Llama, but it makes me rather nervous how hard the confirmed scumbag Pickem is pushing it.

[Yosarian2]

Lol. And by the way, pickem, yes, I was in the newbie forum. I had a completed newbie game open, because I was discussing it with someone, and then I closed the thread. You're really grasping at straws here, aren't you?

[Yosarian2]

No, pickem, it's not scummy that you're pushing for the plan. You're pushing for the plan, and I KNOW that you're scum, and that makes me doubt the plan.

From my point of view, I know you're scum. The second scum could be either thedoc or Llama. The only confirmed innocent is Albert, as he and Llama can't both be scum together since I know you're scum.

And why are you saying that thedoc is 100% confirmed scum, exactally? Earlier, you had some doubts about LLama, now you don't? That dosn't make any sense.

[Yosarian2]

Explain what sense it makes me to support a plan for a guarenteed town win if i'm scum.

If you and Llama are scum together, it's a guarenteed town loss. Which is why your support for the plan is making me nervous.

Break it down again

Cop-Llama, nobody counterclaimed (shit even a breadcrumb by a newbie, i'm impressed)

Nobody counterclaimed, but there's only a 50/50 chance there IS a cop in the game. And yes, a newbie breadcrumbed, which might mean he got the idea of breadcrumbing in code from somewhere, or it might mean his scum partner coached him before day 1 started "hey, put the word "COP" in code somewhere, just in case you need it later".

Now, I don't know that that's true. At the moment, if I had to guess, I'd say there's, say, a 60% chance you're scum with thedoc, and a 40% chance you're scum with Llama. But today, I'd rather lynch you, the person I know is scum, and figure out the rest tommorow.

[Yosarian2]

Awesome. Good game, everyone.

That was actually a really good plan, Llama; I figured that if it came to lynching either me or pickem, I'd probably win, but I hadn't even thought of the option of just lynching thedoc and figuring out the rest tommorow. Whew, was I scared when you suggested that; at that point, I HAD to either make Albert doubt you, or try to make you think that me and pickem were scum together, heh.

Anyway, well played, everyone. I mentioned to thedocs before day 1 that we'd probably win unless there was a cop, heh. I was really worried this might be my first loss as scum in a newbie game.

[Yosarian2]

Albert was a confirmed innocent once me and pickem both claimed doc. One of us had to be scum which meant there was only one other scum. If the other scum was Llama, then Albert must have been town. If Llama was town, then Albert must have been town. Either way, Albert was the only true confirmd innocent.