Newbie 384: All over 'cept the finger-pointing!

[pickemgenius]

Vote: thedocsalive

random.

[pickemgenius]

Holy shit I was at -1 for awhile. Ewww.

Unvote

Vote: truncator

lynch -1 this early = no-no

[pickemgenius]

Lynch minus one early isn't the worst thing in the world, guys. If anyone were to drop the hammer, and pickemgenius showed up innocent, the player who dropped the fourth vote would almost certainly be newbie scum, and a surefire lynch the next day. And there's always the 2/7 chance of him being scum.

Not that I'm condoning putting three votes on people for no reason at all, nor am I saying that it's good play, but I'm just saying that it's not as completely negative as people might think.

Yea, I was just kind of shocked to go to sleep, and wake up to it.


Also it might not be newbie scum neccessarily, it *could* also be the newbie who has played games elsewhere and is used to fast games.

[pickemgenius]

To me, it wasn't so much that the lynch-1 vote was "early" on Day 1 but that it was truncator's first vote (and first post in the game) that went immediately to the put someone to lynch-1.

I guess I take putting anyone at L-1 with the ninth post in the game as early.

I consider anything before pages 3-5 (depends on content) as early.

I don't care if it we had been playing Day 1 for a week, if that were truncator's same first post, I'd raise an eyebrow.

Yes. Then there would be two cons about that.

1. Lurking
2 No reason for putting someone at L-1

[pickemgenius]

Also it might not be newbie scum neccessarily, it *could* also be the newbie who has played games elsewhere and is used to fast games.

There are fast lynches, and then there are lynches that are just dumb.
A lynch on page three with very little discussion would be a fast lynch IMO.

I consider anything before pages 3-5 (depends on content) as early.

3 was a bit of a stretch for me to put, all the games i've been in (here) Day one has lasted:

13 pages
26 pages
16 pages (still ongoing)

I basically put 3, due to the very unlikely event that someone would do something very very very very stupid.

By contrast, a lynch soon after you were at minus one in this game would just have been stupid, and completely random.

Yes.

[pickemgenius]

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

[pickemgenius]

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

... I am?

Sure.

[pickemgenius]

It's cause i'm from Nebraska isn't it.


Go Skers. 8)

[pickemgenius]

I really don't think voting for truncator right now is great for a few reasons. For one, it would put him at lynch minus one. Ironic, right? Secondly, I really don't think the third vote is too scummy.

You're right. Third vote doesn't = scum.
It raises an eyebrow though.

I know it's a risky play,

but as I said before, worse things have happened.

I really don't like that wording (see underlined).
Is it just me?

I feel like a lot of newbie games end quickly because of bandwagons like this: a newer player does something questionable in the first few pages, the rest of the thread ultimately deems it unforgiveable, lynches him, he shows up innocent, and the town's in lylo day two.

1. How do we 100% sure he's new, and hasn't played elsewhere, and knew what he was doing?

2. I will agree that some newbie games do end up like that.


Maybe this will springboard some talk?

[pickemgenius]

Unvote, vote Yosarian2

I don't like him much, and would readily lynch him today unless something unexpected happens.

He acts defensive, then quickly jumps on the offensive. He states the obvious. Also, as an side-reason, he is more chatty than his other games, as pickem has said.

Yos is usually pretty quiet.

From what i've seen from Yos, is that he's pretty quiet, and straightforward.

[pickemgenius]

Newbie 334

[pickemgenius]

Truncator, did you know you were putting him at -1 when you voted?

Yes. I also knew that someone would change their vote and I hoped it would be before the 4th vote came in. I wanted to see who was quick to change. It may have been risky, but you don't always get the information you need by sitting on your thumb.

There's no way you could have "known" that.

QFT

[pickemgenius]

Unvote, vote Yosarian2

I don't like him much, and would readily lynch him today unless something unexpected happens.

He acts defensive, then quickly jumps on the offensive. He states the obvious. Also, as an side-reason, he is more chatty than his other games, as pickem has said.

And yes, when someone attacks me, I defend myself, and when I see someone do something scummy, I go on the offensive. That's how the game is supposed to be played! Geez. Pro-town players NEED to go on the offensive, because that's the ONLY WAY TO FIND SCUM. And everyone should defend themselves whenver attacked, that's just common sense.

QFT X 3



:good posting X2:

[pickemgenius]

Again. Sorry for the unconventional move.
I didn't realize it would upset you, the one who wasn't -1, so much.
It happened.
No one died.
Nothing you can do about it.
I'm sure you can expect more from me that you might not agree with in this game.
Unless you (or they) get rid of me early.
Throw out the SOP book and just roll with the flow, man.
At least now I have a pretty good idea of where you stand.
Unless you're just jacking with me to look pure.

All that said, I wouldn't have a problem doing it again.

Ok
I don't think it upset people, more so than it shocked people.
Yes.
You're lucky nobody died.
We can talk about it.
Then prepare to get questioned quite often
......
Varying a little from the standard procedure is ok.
Ok
Ok

This is a learning experience for you (I think) so i'd bet you'd execute better if you did decide to put someone at L-1 on page 1.

[pickemgenius]

Could you please answer my questions, truncator?

I didn't realize I still had unanswered questions with you. You keep bringing up the same points.

Check post 78.I think that's what he was talking about.

[pickemgenius]

Heads up for everyone here, I know i've posted this in the Vacation thread already, but from June 20th-26th(ish) I will be on vacation.


95% I should have Internet access, just letting you know in case for some reason that doesn't happen =/

Don't need a replacement.

[pickemgenius]

Yo.

Mod:

Prod Windfish maybe?

Thought he was getting on in the evenings. Hope nothing is wrong though.



I still feel truncator needs to list other people who he finds scummy.

I don't have any solid thoughts on anybody really right now.

Though I get some weird vibes from trunc, but that could be because of his unorthodoxness.???

[pickemgenius]

WF/Everyone

What do you think could be accomplished/would happen if somebody put a third vote on truncator?


I think, that it would create more discussion, and would allow for more solid opinions on everybody.

Also, would trunc need to claim if he were put at L-1?

[pickemgenius]

I don't believe you defended yourself.

You just threw around names.

And as Llama said why do you trust Windfish/Albert so much?

Also you didn't mention Yos?

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP: Simulpost.

Ignore Llama part.

[pickemgenius]

Ok. Why do you think pickemgenius is scum?

Naturally, I didn't think pickem was scum in the beginning. But since that time he has been constantly prodding on me and trying to round up more votes to lynch me. I believe he is doing so because he knows I'm in a unique spot with everyone eyeing me and he knows I'm pro-town because he is scum.

I really wish windfish would remove his vote for me. I still think we are on the same side. I've had 2 votes long enough now that I think one of the two current votes are scum. It wouldn't seem so suspicious anymore if 2 more scum votes came along and lynched me. 1 has voted for me, the other is waiting.

First paragraph:

I haven't been trying to "round up" votes to lynch you. Just because I think you're scummy won't make me actively try and change the minds of others. That's their own choice on how they feel about you. I've been throwing out scenarios at best.

Don't ask for people to unvote you. You asking Windfish to do so strikes me as weird. SHOW US YOU'RE TOWN if you want us to unvote you.


That's all for now.

[pickemgenius]

I didn't ask him to unvote me. I made a statement.

I really wish windfish would remove his vote for me

Umm your statement was asking him to unvote you. LAL anyone?

This now brings me to think of you/WF pair.
This is totally not set in stone just a thought.

[pickemgenius]

I'm still fully happy with my vote on trunc.


This is a good time to note I will be on vacation from June 20th-25th(ish)

I should have IE, but not a lot of time to post and whatnot, if I check in briefly and see something happening, I might post something really quick. I expect to be back late the 25th, so I should have time to do a full analysis when I get back.

[pickemgenius]

All right. We can't afford to no-lynch, which is what will happen if the voting stays as it is. I might as well vote for the person I currently find to be most suspicious.

vote:truncator

ANd eveyone needs to get in here and post, all right?

That's a really bad move. I'm not scum.

Unvote

VOTE: LlamaHunter

Why are you not scum?
What have you done that is pro-town?
Who is a better candidate for scum than you?
What have they done that is anti-town?


WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR LLAMA?
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVIDE ANY REASONING BEHIND YOUR VOTE, AND EVEN WORSE YOU DIDN'T GIVE ANY EVIDENCE FOR A L-1 VOTE AGAIN...

If you are voting for me at this point, I believe you to be scum. But if it's between me and Llama Hunter, I don't want to go down first.

OMGUS written all over that post.

Of course you don't want to go down first, SCUM DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN EVER!!!!!!!

[pickemgenius]

All right. We can't afford to no-lynch, which is what will happen if the voting stays as it is. I might as well vote for the person I currently find to be most suspicious.

vote:truncator

ANd eveyone needs to get in here and post, all right?

Can you afford to kill a town-folk over a no lynch? I guess we'll find out.

YOU NEVER EVER

WANT

A NO LYNCH IN SUCH A SMALL GAME!!!!

There are a few extreme situations where it is a good play, but it's for sure usually not a good idea.

While it is very bad to lynch someone who is pro-town, we get connections and get a better view on where everyone stands for later Days.

[pickemgenius]

pickem, you are the scum.

OMGUS for $2000 Alex.

Evidence please....

[pickemgenius]

Why are you not scum?
What have you done that is pro-town?
Who is a better candidate for scum than you?
What have they done that is anti-town?
WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR LLAMA?



THIS IS THE SECOND TIME YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVIDE ANY REASONING BEHIND YOUR VOTE, AND EVEN WORSE YOU DIDN'T GIVE ANY EVIDENCE FOR A L-1 VOTE AGAIN...

[pickemgenius]

EBWOP: Yea, answer those please, k thanks....

[pickemgenius]

Mod prods on

: Albert, doc, Llama?

3+ days of no typing here, plus now we're in deadline and I wouldn't mind seeing them type here, even if I won't be directly be available to comment on them right away.

[pickemgenius]

we're in lylo. scum can easily pile on FTW which would suck.

[pickemgenius]

Something's come up and I'm unsure of the access I'm going to have between 1-8 July, so I'm going to claim now. I'm the cop. I investigated Albert and he turned out innocent. So, that means two of Yosarian, thedocsalive and pickemgenius is scum. On the other hand, one of them is town.

That makes it so much harder.

If there is no counterclaim, and soon I will have to believe it (for now)

So why did you investigate Albert?

Who do you think is scum out of the remaining three, you didn't investigate?


Wait a sec, unless Llama is lying about being a cop, which is possible however I don't find it very likely without a counterclaim(which ain't coming from me), that would mean

100%

that it is a doc/Yos combo.

[pickemgenius]

So nobody counter claimed, seeing as everyone has posted since Llama's unhearlded claim.
That means I believe it 90%, and so now would be a good time for me to claim.

Doc=Me
Cop=Llama
Innocent by investigation-Albert

Scum- Yos, Doc


Hats off if Llama is pulling a quick one, so just for now.

HUGE FOS: YOS,DOC

[pickemgenius]

I knew you would do that aswell.

now that we

KNOW

Doc/Yos scum pair, we win.


Now it's just a matter who to lynch first, doc or Yos.

I protected Yos Night 1, kind of a carry over from 334. Bad choice by me obv.

Confirm Vote: Yosarian2

Make that 3-0 in my games so far (after doc gets lynched ofcourse.)


TOWN VICTORY FTW!!!


I might aswell start asking some off the wall questions since its basically game over.


Yos-why did you/doc decide to kill Windfish Night 1, very weird NK.

Are you blind, and can't read your PM from MeMe?

What did you and docs talk about during pregame and Night 1?

I'll give myself some credit, I knew one of you/doc would counterclaim me, ballsy move for you to do so though, just proved me right on all accounts, and me being right makes me happy.

[pickemgenius]

I waited to claim to see if the cop was going to get couter claimed, I figured if there isn't a counter clain then it's game set match, that's why I waited.


Go ahead look back at the game, see who's been kissing ass, and see who's been trying to find scum.

Look at the trunc bandwagon, and see who added more to the discussion day 1, see who was actively trying to lynch scum, or find out who was just coasting along.

[pickemgenius]

Him, and doc were distancing on the trunc issue, Doc-defends newbie, Yos- attack newbie. Yos- "good vibes from me"


I agreed alot with what Yos said Day 1, but now that I know him to be scum, kind makes me feel bad I agreed with him.

[pickemgenius]

Notice the complete lack of in game examples Yos used in his most recent post, it's almost amazing how he just proclaimed himself town, and town over and over again in that post.

yeah, nice try though.

[pickemgenius]

This is how I reason it. IF (and I'm not sure of this yet) one of Yosarian and pickem is actually the doc (there is still the issue of whether they're both scum claiming doc - thoughts, anyone?) then, the

best move

is to lynch thedocsalive (who would therefore be scum), me to investigate one of the two of Yosarian/pickem at night, and the real doc to protect me, and then we come out with an answer the next day.

Fucking great idea, we know docs=scum so that's a win.
I protect you tonight, you get a result on me or Yos, and it's game over, town victory.

[pickemgenius]

YOS!!!!!!!

I saw you hovering around in the newbie list for about 15 minutes, and didn't post anything, maybe it's because you know there is no way to shoot this idea down, and you know you are hosed.

[pickemgenius]

:eyebrow: you're pushing this idea pretty hard, huh pickem? That makes me wonder if I was right about the Pickem/Llama scumgroup.

Fuck yeah, i'm going to push hard for a plan that will assure a town victory.


Doc is basically 100% confirmed scum, we lynch him.

3/1 town to scum ration before night kill.
2/1 town to scum ration after night kill.
I would presume you would kill Albert, because you know i'm protecting Llama.
Llama gives his results (Yos=guilty, me=innocent) game over, town victory.

So again tell me how pushing for a plan that ensures a town victory is scummy?

[pickemgenius]

No, pickem, it's not scummy that you're pushing for the plan. You're pushing for the plan, and I KNOW that you're scum, and that makes me doubt the plan.

Explain what sense it makes me to support a plan for a guarenteed town win if i'm scum.

And why are you saying that thedoc is 100% confirmed scum, exactally? Earlier, you had some doubts about LLama, now you don't? That dosn't make any sense.

Break it down again

Cop-Llama, nobody counterclaimed (shit even a breadcrumb by a newbie, i'm impressed)
Cop investigation- Albert-Innocent
Doc= Me

well shit that leaves two people, you and docs.

[pickemgenius]

welp, first game lost ever on this site.

you guy's didn't want to follow llamas guaranteed town win plan, not my fault.

Oh well gg scum, actually not really since we all know who they were, but you won, so that counts for something.

[pickemgenius]

There was alot of weird town play here to be honest, and heh, it's not my fault.

Albert, why were you in such a hurry to end the game?

Lots of anti-town play was made in this game, but hey, some people are learning.

*shrug* again gg.



Also may I ask everyone why they would lynch the doctor who claimed first, and laid out the game plan so obviously?

[pickemgenius]

Alright, I'll again break it down.

If you are a confirmed innocent, that means the cop investigation was right.


Llama=cop
me=doc
you=confirmed innocent.

first off there isn't much grey are in who is scum right off the bat.


Yos fake counterclaims me.

If we would have lynched docs first (3/1 town to scum ratio)
NK-(you)Albert, they wouldn't kill me, and I would protect the cop.(2/1)
Llama gives her result, me=innocent, or Yos= guilty.


but I guess winning isn't your thing, maybe that's why the plan was lame to you.

[pickemgenius]

No counterclaim by anybody+breadcrumbing cop makes Llama 90%+ cop.

[pickemgenius]

If I breadcrumb during the day, scum reread the day, and if I breadcrumb doc, i'm most likely the N1 kill, making me useless.


Why did I wait for everyone to post?


Well, I wanted to see if anybody counter claimed Llama, and I knew if nobody counterclaimed that this game was (or should have been easily) in the bag.

[pickemgenius]

I like him, he's a pretty nifty person, and he had some good points.

[pickemgenius]

1. Because if nobody counterclaims, and says who he investigated that makes 2 confirmed (basically) innocents leaving only one in the air.

If somebody would have counter claimed, then I wouldn't have presumed you were innocent, and then we would have to find out which one is lying, lynch them, get to day 3, I would then claim, presumably then it would be (you, me, doc/yos)
and then Llamas investigation results would clear you, and it would be game over.

2. This was my first power role, ever.

[pickemgenius]

unthoughtfulness?
There was a plan for a guarenteed win, and I wanted to follow it. some people didn't, not my fault.


why would you protect a 90% confirmed innocent instead of a 100% confirmed innocent?

HE WAS A FUCKING COP

, HIS INVESTIGATION RESULTS ON DAY 3 WOULD END THE GAME, YOU WEREN'T A COP, you were a townie, you would have brought nothing new Day 3, and the game would have been a crapshoot.

[pickemgenius]

Now let me ask you a question.

Again, why were you so impatient throughtout the game?


Why were you in a hurry to end it?

[pickemgenius]

. Or at least say you will and then protect the cop.

That would work.


I'll take a 90% cop over a 100% townie.


We'll never know what would have happened if Llama would have gotten counterclaimed.

[pickemgenius]

Man, I totally had this game figured out and everything.

I'm counting this game as a win for me and you, since we knew what was going on for sure.

[pickemgenius]

Yes, Albert made a mistake in his read, and Yos and I were the scum. But it's certainly not something that was incredibly stupid or impossible to understand. Yes, to Llama and pickem, the strategy of lynching me, protect Llama and investigate tomorrow was infallible, but it's not so given that the cop wasn't truly confirmed.

Yes, he cut the game short, absolutely no discussion of the plan, even proclaimed

he

was 100% confirmed innocent, which makes no sense unless he believes that Llama is the cop, so the plan was totally awesome/a piece of cake/we should have won easily.