Open 41-Quicklynch Nightless GAME OVER!, before 492

[Sir Tornado]

Let's get started!!! Have fun, be respectful and away we go...................

With 12 alive it takes 4 to lynch

Why do we need only 4 players to lynch?

Pre-emptive vote: Adam the Amazing

[Sir Tornado]

Let's get started!!! Have fun, be respectful and away we go...................

With 12 alive it takes 4 to lynch

Why do we need only 4 players to lynch?

Pre-emptive vote: Adam the Amazing

Since this is a quicklynch game with no night. The voting to lynch somebody is the number of mafia remaining +1

Ah, Ok... you might want to modify the rule no. 3 then (which says lynches will require a simple majority)

[Sir Tornado]

DA... why are you voting for yourself?

[Sir Tornado]

I think Adel should have a look at my signature again...

A thing is not necessarily true because a man

(or a woman, in this case)

dies for it

. -- Oscar Wilde

However, for me to believe my own signature, kaofere'd better have a very good reason to explain his hammer on Discordian Algorithm. And, he'd better start explaining it soon.

[Sir Tornado]

I agree that scum-won't-hammer is a dangerous precedent to set, and I wanted to shake it up. The town still has more lives. If I get a rapid lynch for putting down the hammer vote, once I'm shown to be a townie, the WIFOM will become very thick.

I don't get this. If you are claiming to be a townie, why did you hammer someone without a proper reasoning?

FOS: Kaosfere

[Sir Tornado]

I agree with IH. I will hammer Kaosfere if he doesn't reply my last post within in 24 (more) hours.

AtA: It is "

She

who was lynched"... not "He"

[Sir Tornado]

I don't get this. If you are claiming to be a townie, why did you hammer someone without a proper reasoning?

I had proper reasoning, which I have now fully explained above. At this point anyone who fails to see it isn't going to, I'm afraid.

Hammer away. After you kill me, put in a little thought and you should be able to figure out who the real scum are.

That was your actual reasoning for lynching her? Well, then, let's see...

Town still has more lives than scum, and will even if I get lynched. DA's reckless play was disconcerting. I believe that given enough time and rope, scum will self-identify, and I'd rather see us have more time for arguments so that the scum can out themselves than end up with truly discordian actions throwing the dialogue for a complete loop.

Of course the town has more lives than the scum. That is the whole point of this game. I really don't think DA's play was reckless actually. It was a bit silly, yes, and it was confusing for me; but she did not cause the town any actual damage by self voting. But you, sir by hammering her on page 2 caused an awful lot of damage. I don't think the scum would "self-identify" if we go on playing the way we have right now, with all the self voting, early hammering, a strong dose of WIFOM logic.

I look at it this way. The most fundamental aspect of the game is in townies trying to ferret out scum, while the scum are attempting to hide their identities. Scum have something to hide. Townies, barring edge cases, have nothing to hide. It would take an incredibly talented scum to maintain a perfect townie facade for an indeterminate length of time.

The first part is the general game theory which you have got correct. However, I don't think it would take an "incredibly talented scum" to win this game for them. This is an open game, and open games tend to be rather balanced.

DA claimed he voted for himself in an attempt to demonstrate his point: that scum would hammer him even in this game. As such, if a townie, he was offering himself for sacrifice in order to cast heavy suspicion upon those who hammered him -- clearly in the expectation that some scummer would be stupid enough to pull the trigger, be instantly lynched, and keep scum from hammering for the rest of the game.

The flaw with this logic is that he's right: only an idiotic scum would hammer in this position. All that would have to be done would be for them not to cast the lynching vote, and it would appear as if DA had been proven wrong -- all scum would now be in much less danger when hammering. Allowing this to happen would clearly be detrimental to the town.

This is a very bad reasoning. Hammering isn't actually a scum-tell in this game. Hammering for crappy reasons is. You hammered DA for crappy reasons (which is what I feel this is). No one hammering DA would not have meant that scum would never hammer -- I don't believe ANYONE (except possibly you) would believe that. What would put the scum in danger is hammering for silly reasons, or leading a bandwagon which is clearly opportunistic in nature, or for anomalies in reasoning/behavior, contradictory statements and actions, or for leading a very anti-town agenda, and lots of other things that you can't actually state, but you know when you actually encounter them.

The only scum who would have hammered DA would, indeed be a very stupid scum. No hammer on DA would not have meant that scum won't hammer anytime in the game. It would only mean that scum weren't stupid.

The only beneficial outcome, at that point, would be and some idiot scum did off him, which would not take any heat off the scum. Against this, there were two possibilities: DA was a scum, and would live, clearly a negative. Or, he was innocent and I could cast the killing vote, which would definitely not be as positive, but would be alot less negative than allowing scum to prove him wrong. The absolute worst case scenario would be that DA gets lynched and an innocent party gets lynched the next day. But even should that occur, we will still have more "lives", as noted above, and by that point remaining townies should have a very good idea who is or isn't scummy, based on what's been posted in the discussion that would be sure to ensue.

Or, you miss the third outcome: Some person (probably scum) makes a slip, we move on from DA to that person. I wonder why you did not consider this possibility. That would be certainly positive, wouldn't it?

And, if you are town, you should sit back and reflect on exactly what you have done. You have handed the scum a free pass through 2 days. Of course, we have more lives. But, is wasting away "lives" really a good play, in any game? And, FTR, I really have no idea who is really scum and who isn't right now.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, I seem to have missed something... why are IH and Khelvaster on the scumdar of a few people? Can someone please state the case against them?

[Sir Tornado]

IH, don't you think that you are voting Deathsauce for the most trivial of reasons?

Your vote is on Deathsauce atm, tell me, exactly what do you think is scummy with him right now?

People should remember that this game requires less number of votes to vote people out. You should be more careful with your votes. With 4 votes required to lynch, even 2 votes can be interpreted as a bandwagon.

[Sir Tornado]

Khelvaster... can the same not be said about you on the Adel wagon? You jumped on Adel after IH, did you not?

I do not like Adam the Amazing's post 81, because:

1) You say you do not know what strategy would be nice to use in this game
2) You follow that by discussing a

mafia

strategy.

Why would a townie need to use a strategy any different in this game than in all the other games? It's fairly simple if you are a townie AtA, you need to hunt the scum. Period

FOS: Adam the Amazing

[Sir Tornado]

That was exactly why we just lynched Kaosfere. So we don't have to fear where we put our votes.

This doesn't seem right to me IH... please explain.

The Kaosfere lynch just proved that townies can quick hammer scum -- and it also gave a warning that no townie should quick lynch anyone. But, your post above seem to imply otherwise.

On another note, I really am not liking the way Paradoxombie hammered Kaosfere and simply disappeared. He has now made 3 posts in this game. The first post was a post tentatively suggesting Discordian Algorithm to be scum (for self voting), the second one saying that he understood kaosfere's logic for hammering DA, and the third one being the hammer on Kaosfere. Something doesn't seem right here... (the hammer after understanding Kaosfere's logic for hammering DA part)

[Sir Tornado]

Scmp... you come out of nowhere and put Khelvaster on -1t? Why? Exactly what strikes you as scummy? Please elaborate.

[Sir Tornado]

AotA... why ignore my post 83 which was directed at you?

[Sir Tornado]

I feel like IH is almost bullying here & this, as far as I can see, is WIFOM. I agreed with the lynch on kaosfere, but not for the same reasons & I think IH is just trying to muddle things by first being involved on the votes for both DA & kaosfere, & then telling people that we should fear a quicklynch.

I actually agree with IH on this one, we

should

fear quick lynches.

Voting IH just because of his being involved in both the lynches doesn't seem right... I don't think he meant to get DA lynched, and I totally approve Kaosfere's lynch.

I, however, agree that IH voting after Khelv said

"Someone who is town needs to unvote"

does look scummy. That unvote, however fits in IH's stand as opposition on quick lynches.

[Sir Tornado]

"AND we have a lynch" Vote Count

(3) IH (Khelvaster, groinhammer, DeathSauce)

(4) Khelvaster (Jdodge, scmp, Sir Tornado, Paradoxombie)

(1) Paradoxombie (Streeflo)


Not Voting: Gatorguy91, IH

With 10 Alive it's 4 to Lynch

What was Khelvaster's allignment you ask? Stay tuned and you'll find out

...

I did not actually vote for Khelvaster... the VC was wrong...

[Sir Tornado]

My thoughts,

After reading again, I agree with DeathSauce that IH could possibly be scum; the stuff with Khel doesn't help him. Gatorguy has been pretty quiet, I'd like to see his thoughts on stuff. I also wonder some about groinhammer. He seems like a mafia member trying to play townie leader. I could be completely wrong though.

I don't like this post at all.

1) You attack Gatorguy for lurking. Whilst I agree that he is lurking, let me point out that your predecessor had posted even less than he has.

2) You accuse groinhammer of being a mafia member trying to lead the town without any explanations at all, but at the same time, you say you could be mistaken about it. How pointless is that? I think you are just throwing accusations wildly and trying to cover your back if there is a mislynch.

[Sir Tornado]

I don't like this post at all.

1) You attack Gatorguy for lurking. Whilst I agree that he is lurking, let me point out that your predecessor had posted even less than he has.

I can't help what my predecessor did.

Ah, yes. But, you should then realize that lurking isn't a exact scum tell.

[Sir Tornado]

I agree that Para intended to hammer, as he himself admitted. So, I think we should treat that lynch as a hammer by Para for all future purposes.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, I am getting increasingly concerned about Paradox's behaviour. He has already hammered two townies, and has now cast, what I think is an unreasonable second vote on Groinhammer. I am, as of now tending to side with Groinhammer. In my mind, IH looks much scummier than Groinhammer. His vote on Groinhammer in 180 baffles me, and I can't see it as anything other than OMGUS.

May be it's just me, but this appears to be a very lynch happy town. 3 lynches in the first 7 pages? We should slow down a bit.

I am also not liking Estes right now. He's too wishy washy for me. He is not taking any concrete stands. He is hinting at scumminess (he attacked Gator and Groinhammer, and then said he did not actually call them scummy) of people, but not exactly calling them out for it.

FOS Paradox

HOS Estes

Not sure if IH is scummy enough to FOS... I'll just

NOS IH

(Nail of suspicion) for now.

[Sir Tornado]

Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.

While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv. Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me.

Did you, or did you not suspect Khelvaster? Your post 107 looks very ambiguous to me.

[Sir Tornado]

Vote Estes

[Sir Tornado]

My thoughts,

After reading again, I agree with DeathSauce that IH could possibly be scum; the stuff with Khel doesn't help him. Gatorguy has been pretty quiet, I'd like to see his thoughts on stuff. I also wonder some about groinhammer. He seems like a mafia member trying to play townie leader. I could be completely wrong though.

I find this post quite scummy. Every sentence in that post is scummy.

1) You agree with Deathsauce that IH could be the possible scum, and then point out his mistake to him, yet, you leave it at that. (In other words, a subtle distancing on your part)

2) Comment about the lurker, when your predecessor himself had not posted much.

3) Accuse an active poster of being the mafia member trying to be a townie leader. (Incidentally, Groinhammer was voting for IH, the person whom you tried to distance in the first part)

4) In the end, you simply say you could be all wrong.

Then, when I say Gatorguy's lurking is not a scum tell, you say you did not say it was. Yet, in your next post, you vote for Gatorguy. Why are you voting for Gatorguy when you don't think his lurking is scummy?

Seriously Sir Tornado. Earlier(top of last page) you said I was suspicious because I never gave a concrete stand against anyone. Then I do(by voting for Gatorguy) and you instantly vote me without a word said. Your words seem to contradict your actions.

And, you still haven't taken any sort of concrete stand. You haven't actually explained your reasons behind your Gator vote.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm not lurking, just plain inactivity ;-p

Sorry.

Would you like to reply to Estes' accusations against you?

BTW,

unvote

[Sir Tornado]

Ah, I am just re-reading this whole game.

[Sir Tornado]

I have been prodded... I'll try to get back into this game at the earliest. I usually play from memory and do not make any notes, and I keep forgetting what happened in the early pages of this game, etc. I will try to get back on track as soon as possible.

[Sir Tornado]

JDodge, please state your original case against Streetflo in full. Your assertions of "explaining the case might be determinal effect on town" in all our games are getting on my nerves.

[Sir Tornado]

Actually I don't really have that much of a case ATM, it's more pure gut than anything

Jdodge is taking the piss, is this how you play in all yr. games where you rabidly push for someone to get lynched but refuse to give an explaination?

unvote, Vote: Jdodge

*sigh*

Did you not read my post? Did I not say his behaviour like that in *all our games* was getting on my nerves?

I think someone commented before on having checked JDodge's history and found out that JDodge does that. It is true. JDodge DOES play like this often, although before this, I actually used to think he has some sort of case when he does this.

[Sir Tornado]

For aftergame analysis: Why do you play like that, if it makes you look scummy, even just before someone is about to hammer you...

It is not scummy if you always do it.

[Sir Tornado]

Hi, I got prodded x 3/4, and I can't post for a couple of more days...

[Sir Tornado]

Bad luck Bookitty... you should have changed it to Estes after preview...

BTW, I was not lurking for "in game reasons", at least not the whole time. It was

really

rl stuff (which is losing me a lot of games currently)

[Sir Tornado]

How? I never bought the Streeflo case.

[Sir Tornado]

It wasn't there to buy. It was there to react to.

Did I not react like a townie would?

[Sir Tornado]

I think the setup was fairly balanced. Had I not disappeared, we might have had a good chance for the win. I think no night kill setups are better than normal setups... they sort of provide the true test of one's abilities.