Mini 518: Underground Mafia, The Nightmare is Over!

[Korlash]

[Insert exaggerated and outstandingly hilarious confirmatory message that inspires trust and understanding with the other players here]

[Korlash]

;_; Thats not very nice...

[Korlash]

I don't think "fair" is an issue at this stage of the game...

[Korlash]

Ouch... my awesomeness backfires on me! T_T Curse you 1/3 invisible man! Curse you!

[Korlash]

Um... I believe Mexal is voting me... not the other way around...

Apologies, Fixed

[Korlash]

...

I'll have you know this smile is %100 genuine authentic imitation thank you very much!

[Korlash]

Yeah I wouldn't be too worried about a small wagon on page two... they will die off soon... I hope... But if it gets to around.. 5... then I would be worried...

[Korlash]

=D

[Korlash]

Am I missing something? Why do we NEED another vote on a random bandwagon? That just seems to me bad playing. I mean sure it puts more pressure on those with the votes but it's still all in the random stage. I don't see how another vote on those is helpful. Then again I could be missing the big picture seeing as how it's me with the votes...

I would think we would want more input and more spread out votes. Narrowing our focus on two people seems a little, I don't know, counter productive.

[Korlash]

Defensive? You call that defensive? I was merely trying to ask why you thought we were in need of a fourth vote. I agree that no one is in danger of anything ATM. (We would have to be a pretty stupid town to lynch someone this fast ><) So even four votes didn't seem like it would cause any significant pressure.

And as for the strongest reaction so far, I agree... I mean it sure was the strongest alright. With so many examples I can list here on page 3 of strong reactions mine definitely tops the chart! [/sarcasm]

Also I think it is "damn near impossible to legitimately justify a vote" on anyone at this point... Random and even "pressure" do no justify anything, even if it dose get the game moving. (Not saying I don't agree with random/pressure votes, just saying they are not true, honest, legitimate votes. In fact, a smart mafia would know a "pressure" vote is worthless unless they overreact so I never even see these are really helpful.)

So making sure not to limit the town's questionnaire to a singular person, what about my last post made you think I was being defensive, or was in any fear you would vote for me?

[Korlash]

Wow... First time anyone has called me

that!

And I am all for this direction of game play. It's fine really, I just wanted to know why it was "Needed" and not just "One way to go." made me think that was the only option they saw and I didn't understand why.

So... Fire away, I promise I will tell the truth!

"No I did not have sexual relations with that woman! I wanted too..."

[Korlash]

@ jerubbaal: i don't play black a lot either but it is a pretty good card, I hear some people call it a game winner. I just like it... Don't know why...

still @ Jerubbaal: Post 54 was not so much defensive as much as a response to Jitsu's question:

Why so defensive?

Your basically putting me in a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario here. If I don't answer the questions I look scummy, yet if I do you call it defensive and use that against me. I just find that a little odd.

And I wouldn't call it nervousness... Maybe a different perspective or view point Mixed with a tiny bit of inexperience/unsureness.

@ Miztef: I already told you I don't consider any votes right now worth being under pressure for. You would get a lot more by asking me stuff/ talking to me like Jitsu and jerubbaal are.

Also... I wouldn't say "First candidates for lynch" this early. Sounds to me like your tying to push for a short day. I would probably say something like "First candidates for suspicion" Or "Most likely scum" seeing as how we all agree there is no real threat of a lynch right now and comments like that seem to be brought up later against you. Just a heads up for future reference.

and lastly @ Jitsu: I like how your playing. Active, scum hunting, not just throwing out votes. While I may not totally fully agree with your style, I am looking forward to a pretty good game.

As for a fourth vote. It won't change anything alone. As you see Miztef voted without asking me anything, or even really pointing anything out. So his vote (To me) looks just as random as the rest, so I wouldn't react to it. However, the discussion going on right now is enough to make me give input. A much better way to gain info on people then semi-meaningless votes.

And, not to sound too "defensive" here, but can you explain how my reaction was what you expected? I mean, all I wanted to know was why you believe a fourth vote was necessary, and instead of just answering you accused me of being defensive. To me, it seems like you saw me as a possible candidate to throw suspicion on and took what I said out of context. I agree I reacted to your post with my thoughts on it, but it was not because you talked about a putting a fourth vote on. It was because two people each agreed that was a good plan and I did not understand why.

And perhaps I am misunderstanding you but are you trying to say that because my post was large (in length) you automatically assumed I was under pressure and defending myself? That just seems a little... biased... Perhaps thats not the right word...

and I will tackle both of your last comments together.

Sure, I could vote for someone that doesn't have many votes on them yet, but I'm not going to learn anything at this point by putting a vote on Jayalay or Anata, for example. Though, if people lurk a few more days, I wouldn't mind putting a vote on a lurker to encourage them to talk. I'd rather not do that on the weekend though, when people are less active.

Really? I'd like to know what you've got in mind.

For starters take what just happened. You talked, and I answered. We just committed active discussion! We have each gained info on the other, without a vote needed. Now take Miztef's vote. I pretty much said nothing in response to it. Because he did not give me any specific reasons that I could explain/counter. So we, the town, have gained nothing out of it and the maifa have gained a player with a slightly higher bandwagon. (This is not about me here. This is for later on, anyone can attack the people on me saying there was no reason for a vote/wagon and use it against them. So in theory, 5 townies can be in danger of having scum opportunities their deaths/reason to be lynched.)

So to answer your question, asking questions and pointing out mistakes/unknowns are much better at generating discussion then a random/pressure vote this early. But it does need the person (In his case me) to be honest about why I said something or what I said.

Other things could include flaming someone. This would spark a comeback, active discussion, or violent outburst that might give something away. In general this should be avoided at all costs as it makes games annoying/hard to read and overall turns active discussion into biased attacks with no real backing.

using info from other games someone is playing in could also be a discussion starter. The sentence "Hey Blank! I'm in game XXX with you and you have been posting there non-stop! Yet you are lurking here! What the hell man?" Could be used to get someone to talk. Again this should be avoided as each game has its own limits and boundaries to it. Just because someone did something somewhere else does not mean they will play the same here. this is one of those things that could cause unnecessary pressure/reasonable doubt on someone that could spiral into an attack/lynch that had no real backing to begin with.

In short, I agree that a vote or talk is best. Those are just a few things I could think of that would start the game moving a little. (Not saying I wold do them. I'm not really! Don't hold that against me here! ^^')

Also my take on the inactives... It could be just that they are not able to post as much as we can during the weekends. So I agree we should give them some time before we turn our attention to them. Then again, With a townie in the current spotlight, some people(mainly mafia) would be inclined to let us attack each other (Provided we are both town here) instead of jumping in and putting their selves out there. Just an idea to take and ruminate on here. I actually don't mind being the one with the votes on me as I will get to express my ideas/feelings early and will hopefully be able to help find the actual scum.

[Korlash]

I do like that idea... If all the town claim then it wont matter who gets NKed because we would know the mafia. But the downside is the claim "Vanilla towny" kills this plan off... every mafia would claim it, the vanilla townies would claim it, and some power roles would claim it... so... yeah I don't think it will ever be in play, unless theres a fully power role game ever done.

As for Miztef's comment on a vote, I have said numerous times I do not think a random/pressure vote helps out that much. Especially when you can turn it around as an OMGUS vote. Plus your not really scummy with a fourth vote, so I see no reason to add one on you. And no offense.. but only 3 people have posted sense you voted me, so the odds were against you gaining a vote.

As for my vote or talk thing it was merely for Jitsu's question. Even though there are a million(Exaggeration) things we can do, we still shouldn't do them. I just wanted to make that clear in case anyone tried to hold my flaming/other games info against me later. And while it may seem odd to you (Because you already knew it) to a player who didn't know it might have taken my above speech to say flaming or other game info would help and thus do it. I did not want this so thats why I concluded the way I did.

[Korlash]

After rereading that post I think I may have said something a bit funny.

I have said numerous times I do not think a random/pressure vote helps out that much.

This of course contradicts a few things I have said in the past at first glance so I want to clear up my feelings right now before you guys get it in your head I'm contradicting myself.

My views on random/early pressure votes:

To a good player, they will not help out too much. As long as a player knows they are in no danger they should not over react. So I try to avoid making them myself.

Proside of random/early pressure votes:

They can help in starting active discussion.(Not always about the voted, sometimes about the voter.) So one or two votes may hep make a person talk, others may require a few more, as you see I only needed 3 to fully begin talking.

So while I agree they can be helpful I am against making them... I know it's hard to understand that but I feel that the other 11 players will make enough that I don't have to, while I am confident I am fully able to create discussion through just that, discussion. No iffy votes to use against me later, no hard feelings right off the bat.

Mostly it's because I feel you get more info from the voter then you do from a smart voted...

Sorry about the double post, I am usually pretty good at previewing my stuff carefully...

[Korlash]

to be fair he at first didn;t even say it... and when he did he admited it was a bad idea...

FoS: Mexal

for ignoring important details...

[Korlash]

Well I admit i have not gained that explanation flair some people seem to have a natural knack for. My biggest problem has always been having some great idea and then explaining it in a way that makes me look stupid...

*sigh*

I am working on it...

Now I'll try to make it crystal clear here:

I am not against people putting up pressure votes, I just don't see them as a sure fire way to weed out scum. If someone understands that the votes put on right now will NOT lead to him being lynched any time soon, that player should not feel any pressure. The same goes for a totally random vote. so I would rather you guys ask me questions/ state specific examples you would like me to talk about instead of just going "Hes suspicious, Vote: Korlash, that might make him crack!" because I realize there is no reason to even think about a lynch ATM.

And I kinda think its reaching to insinuate that I was trying to make it look like my incite. I personally thought it an interesting idea, but at the same time wanted to show him I was not as dumb as Mexal and fully understood where he was coming from.

As for that last quote the first paragraph was directed at Miztef for the most part explaining why I did not vote him. And the second part was for his sarcastic comment about how I "stated the obvious" thing. I don't see an easy way to clear it up without rewriting it for the most part... It mainly says "I said the last part in case some players did not completely understand where I stood on the matter."

I find it odd the way you guys keep coming back at me with "You seem to be stating the obvious/ just saying what others have" as if that is actually a bad thing to do. I personally find it helpful to let people know when you agree with them and understand what they meant. Because then when people like Mexal come in and DON'T agree with you, you at least know that you got through to someone and don't make an honest mistake over it.

Also can you give me examples of "talking in circles?" I hate when people say something vague like that and I'm stuck here unable to clear it up.

[Korlash]

The problem with that is if we let two days go by there is a chance of... 6 townies dead. Leaving us at a probable 3-3 situation which is game over. Overall I do not see the term "mass claim" coming into effect. I can see a cop or tracker claim day 2 followed up by doc protection that night, but I don't see the point in a mass claim ever unless we only have 1 mafia left to deal with. Doing it too early could result in a claimed cop v. claimed cop situation resulting in either real cop being lynched or Nked. and a claim to late results in no more info then we would already have. Overall I am fully against any claim unless your life depends on it.

Or thats my opinion. As the game progresses and the situation turns one way or the other I may be inclined to change my mind. But I doubt it.

[Korlash]

Well if people would stop trying to use false information against me...

Yeah I tend to just type everything in my head at once and try and sort it out later... I guess I will try to limit it to as little as possible but still get my point across...

[Korlash]

I want to start with the quote, then answer a few things, then a little tid bit of stuff, then a good bye... table of contents... just so you know... Always nice... ok...

Not as dumb as Mexal? Are you serious? I skimmed through the thread in 5 minutes and posted against an idea. You've spent the last 3 pages talking about how you dislike pressure votes since it's not a 100% exact way to find scum yet you criticize me for voting someone for pushing out an idea that clearly hurts the town? Tell me exactly how my reasoning above wasn't valid?

First off I am sorry for calling you dumb. I admit it was unneeded and uncalled for. I had a bit of pent up rage from another game and that is never good. Ok that out of the way, if i have been "talking about how you(i) dislike pressure votes" wouldn't that make sense then that I jump at people who do put pressure votes on? It seems to me like your confusing logic here...

Also it's not that you voted him, it's that you just plain ignored half of his post and threw the second half out as an attack. I think taking things out of context is scummy.

Take the sentence "If I am mafia I would not vote you!" If you just take the "I am mafia" part and use it as an attack... Yeah... You see where I am going right? Granted, his statement is pretty different from the example sentence. But it is more or less the same concept.

Now to answer the Question: " Explain this" Well if people would stop trying to use false information against me... "

It was a tiny jokeish response to Jerubbaal's "Try not to ramble and make those ideas less clear than they are in your head. " notice the smiley in it.

@ jitsu: "If you had thought to mention this right away, you would have looked a lot less suspicious. "

If I had mentioned what? That it gave a lot of info for the town? I believe I did say that at some point.

Tid bits:

People keep mentioning over reacting, and Miztef did his thing on playing differently as scum and town. I am fully for and support the argument "If you are town you cannot be afraid to put yourself out there."
So I will always make myself a target by coming in hard and fast. In doing so I get info from others and they get info from me.
(Actually... I know I will jinx myself here.. but out of every game of mafia I have ever played... I have yet to actually be lynched! So i am kinda a 'man without fear' here. It helps us out a lot because of all the info we get, but it can be very dangerous to me if I am not careful.)
So you cannot be afraid to throw suspicion on yourself in order to get the info you want. If you are, you will lose a lot of opportunity to get that info and will make the game a little harder for the town in general.

@ Miztef: you say you voted me because I had the most votes on me (post 84) Yet... I believe curiouskarmadog also had three votes on him. So... Why me? I think you need to be a bit more specific. Unless I missed an unvote at some point.

@ oEJo : You know. You made me laugh at least twice... Thats hard to do. So... Keep it up =D

Now a good bye:

why do you have to be so active during the time I am working... Man... this game is going to keep me busy every day I get home isn't it? Oh well... Keep up the activity! I will check back in shortly!

[Korlash]

You know that caught my eye too. But I chalked it up to just a bad use of wording/mistake. we have been talking a lot about wagons here. And

technically

I believe you could call it a one vote wagon if it comes down to it.

And I can't remember if anyone had voted him before you... to tired to check ATM... Hopefully I can get another of you younger and fitter players to do it for me.. and bring me tea.. and a cookie... =D

[Korlash]

First off I am sorry for calling you dumb. I admit it was unneeded and uncalled for. I had a bit of pent up rage from another game and that is never good. Ok that out of the way, if i have been "talking about how you(i) dislike pressure votes" wouldn't that make sense then that I jump at people who do put pressure votes on? It seems to me like your confusing logic here...

Also it's not that you voted him, it's that you just plain ignored half of his post and threw the second half out as an attack. I think taking things out of context is scummy.

Take the sentence "If I am mafia I would not vote you!" If you just take the "I am mafia" part and use it as an attack... Yeah... You see where I am going right? Granted, his statement is pretty different from the example sentence. But it is more or less the same concept.

Have you even read a single thing I've said? I have said several times that I read everything and made my post anyway. I have said several times that disclaimers are meaningless. Why are you still pushing this?

What exactly are you talking about in regards to pressure? I put a vote on someone for a perfectly valid reason. I did not go throw a vote on a player who had 3 votes on him to see him react. Therefore my pressure has absolutely nothing to do with what you spent your time arguing against. Someone has to put the first vote down. Someone has to exert that initial pressure. That has absolutely nothing to do with you argument about pressure votes therefore I wouldn't expect you to use that as a reason to justify your criticism of my vote. So no, it doesn't make sense.

Wow I totally need to check before I post...

Ok... First off I was in no way trying to push it, I was merely stating why I reacted as I did. I see now that I made a mistake by saying it was a pressure vote but thats what I thought it was.

So why are discalimers meaningless? I think in that situation they were perfectly logical. Someone asked him about it, so in order not to look bad, he answered. But admitted he knew it was wrong.

And as for your "perfectly valid reason" I personally think your reason is shitty and false. And if you did not expect me to use it as a reason to justify my criticism for your vote why did you even bring it up? I logically assumed because of your sentence that you were saying your vote was a pressure vote. My mistake there.

So can you answer me why you think an "initial pressure vote" is any different to me as any other "early pressure vote"? as far as I see it your trying to convince

me

personally that your vote does not follow my thinking of votes themselves. I find that a bit odd, but I suppose I would try to skirt my actions away from attacks other people have already done.

In short, I believe your reason for the vote is meaningless. "Disclaimers are meaningless" may make sense to you, but to take what someone said out of context and use it as an attack is not a good plan. I believe that if you feel a vote is good to put on someone you should not care what my feelings are on the matter. And I believe that the world is round, forever spinning with an infinite WIFOM games being played all over! Yeah.. deep I know...

[Korlash]

You know that caught my eye too. But I chalked it up to just a bad use of wording/mistake. we have been talking a lot about wagons here. And

technically

I believe you could call it a one vote wagon if it comes down to it.

And I can't remember if anyone had voted him before you... to tired to check ATM... Hopefully I can get another of you younger and fitter players to do it for me.. and bring me tea.. and a cookie... =D

What caught your eye?

One vote

is

a wagon. But you cannot jump onto a wagon if one isn't started.

And no one voted for him before I voted hence why I posted what I posted. Seriously, if you're going to make a post to me, at least have some semblence of what you're talking about.

DAMNIT!I hate being ninjaed... I even checked that time...

Ok that post was in response to post 112. you kinda put another post up after I had already begun mine so.. yeah...

I had no idea you were going to do a double post... I'm sorry... As for the "Jump on a bandwagon" thing... It could be confusion about how many votes he had on him at the time, a ploy to make it look like your an example for all the talk that just occurred, or a simple mistake because of that talk. If I am talking about bandwagons all day and then have to explain someone's actions. I might just say something about a wagon in there too. Be it accidentally or not...

Ok I just checked.. I was the last to post.. so If I get ninjed again I will lose it!

[Korlash]

Well i won't say no to gaining as much info out of you that I can! ^^ I personally love how fast this game is starting!

Ok:

Who said you were pushing anything? I merely stated you reacted positively to the suggestion.

see this:

Have you even read a single thing I've said? I have said several times that I read everything and made my post anyway. I have said several times that disclaimers are meaningless.

Why are you still pushing this?

in short, you did.

Why make the post in the first place?

Because he was asked, by another player (a possilbe towny) to explain his other ideas. When you are asked to do something and do not do it then you look a little scummy. So I find it hard to imagine why you keep missing this very important issue here.

Why say there are things you can do that are efficient if you think those things are stupid? Hell, why even post that if you don't expect someone to question you on it? That's why disclaimers are pointless. You can easily suggest something with a disclaimer then when someone latches on to it and pushes it, you can follow it up. So even though you made a disclaimer, you can easily back away from the disclaimer since you're the one to post the idea in the first place. In other words, he's spitting out shit to see if it sticks even though it's a HORRIBLE idea for town. Get it yet?

He DID NOT ORIGINALLY SAY IT! Thus, because he did not say it he obviously did not think it was worth saying. But when asked he was forced to say it, so he added the disclaimer to reiterate that he did not support it. And I think you are reaching to assume that he was throwing out shit to see if it woudl stick because of that point right there.

How is it false? Because I don't automatically believe when someone puts up disclaimers, my reasoning is then invalid? Hardly. If I believed everything everyone did then I wouldn't be very good at this game now would I?

Personally I don't think you are good at this game anyways... >.> <.<

Kidding... seriously... that was a joke... Don't get to mad over it... >.>

actually the fact that you don;t believe him is good. The fact that you are ignoring the fact he originally thought the idea bad enough not to say and only brought it up BECAUSE HE WAS ASKED is what makes your reason invalid. Certain situations have certain limits to them, such as when you are on vacation I can easily see you making a mistake and overlooking things, thus I am more inclined to let a few mistakes pass by. Just like when you are forced to say something I do not hold my personally feelings on if I think it was a good or bad idea as the basis for my vote. I hold only how scummy/town it appears to be, and yes I add disclaimers into the mix for this.

What I'm trying to convince you of is that I voted someone because I thought their post was bad. You're arguing against people who are voting people for the saking of pressuring yet you're criticizing me for voting someone because I dislike them. You should, instead, be praising me for not putting a 4th vote on to see the reaction but rather voting them for an actual reason, whether you believe in it or not. I don't really know what you want or how you plan to go about finding scum but I will vote for and pressure people I dislike.

I wouldn't say so much I am arguing against people who are voting for people, i am more about arguing over the effectiveness of said vote. By all means vote vote vote... But do not base your strategy on a blind, reasonless vote... (that is my argument, not my statement towards you. I am not trying to say your vote is blind/reasonless.)

He originally posted that he had ideas that were more efficient. When asked, he said his idea was stupid and that it revolved around a mass claim. He then somewhat justified his terrible idea by explaining how it could work. I then voted for him for suggesting a mass claim. Explain again how I took him out of context?

You keep missing the fact he A) Did not originally say it, and B) he said it was a bad idea and instead are pushing that he is trying to in a sense hide behind a false disclaimer so he can jump one way or the other. He is not saying a massclaim is good, he is not lobbying for a massclaim, he is not trying to judge our reaction, he is merely answering a question of an idea he had in his head. You seem to be adamant that he is some massclaim wanting mafia that is trying to hide behind a disclaimer. I'm all for getting info from people but I feel like you are pulling a whole lot of unnecessary suspicion on yourself because you seem to be only focusing on your opinions and not what he actually said.

[Korlash]

Ohhh snap my bad... ><

[Korlash]

=D I like to steal rebuttals. It makes me feel special ;P

Well this is just a gut feeling but... I don't think I need to rehash my argument seeing as two other people said it themselves. (Ok Nym didn't actually say it.. but he

actually said it

... huh... that came out wrong... Ok he didn't say my argument, but he said the actual thing I was arguing about... Ok that came out better.. not as funny... but ok.)

As for me and Mexal, if you agree with him, I see no point in trying to explain things with you as you are already blind and/or unable to understand simple sentences. (Much like me actually XD)

You cannot speak irresponsibly and expect your actions to be justified by a simple, "well, this is probably stupid," or, "well, this is just a gut feeling"

His actions were not justified by a simple "whatever you said" they were justified by a question posed at him by a player you classified as "Decent scum hunting."

And:

distortion of arguments and actions is always bad,

Does anyone else see this as funny? I do... I mean he pretty much admitted what he just did was a bad thing, and I think bad things are more or less not good for town.(Jer, if you want to know what I am talking about here read either mine or oEJo's post in regards to what Mexal did. If you still cannot see why you and Mexal are wrong then I will try, and I do use the term lightly, to explain it to you. And you know how fun my posts are )

[Korlash]

Wow I really hate when someone answers something in a post, then later on answers another thing with "Look at my above answer. Why do people keep asking me this? blah blah blah." in the same dang post. what? are we suppose to read your post long before you post it, yet alone write it? I mean talk about stupidity.

You read what you want to read,state what you want to state and ignore everything else that was said.

I could say the same about you. The fact that you read what he did as a post to judge how effective a massclaim would be, and not just a stupid idea like he said it was means you would rather create semi-likely scenarios instead of accepting what I saw as a perfectly good explanation/reason. People lie, yeah, so it is not always good to trust what they say. But to throw out an explanation/reason and assume what someone did is scummy is well... a bit anti-town in my opinion. It's basically saying that no matter how I answer you post you are going to come back at me with some type of attack that goes against all my reasoning. Thats great. Totally fool proof plan there Sherlock.

I will admit I tend to think the best of people. Thats not always bad, but not always good either. So I can see how I could be missing a valid point from your side of things. I still don't why you would bring that up as a reason for a vote, but whatever.

And dang... I just read your last one directed at me... Damn man are you that much of an idiot? I am just posting how I read it too, and I read it a hell of a lot differently then you did. Logically I know a massclaim is stupid, thus when someone says "This is a stupid idea but... massclaim?" I tend to see they were telling the truth. Whether or not he was trying to judge a massclaim doesn't matter. That has an equal chance of being a mafia ploy AND a town plan, assuming he is mafia for that means you cannot see both sides. It's pretty obvious no one else is supporting the idea so I have no fear in it coming to fruition. So yeah, I tend to defend him for it. Mostly because I did not want to see a townie (In this case you) come in and attack him with a stupid argument and have another person (In this case me ><) constantly hound you over it.

Also if you are not prepared to argue your points to their full extent every single post you are in the wrong game pal. Stop thinking you know everything there is about who should play and how they should play. Unless you " know what is going on in my head" Don't you dare tell me how to play this game.

That over:
@Jitsu: No questions for me? I feel left out...

[Korlash]

Wow this is the first Time I have ever just skimmed the new posts before posting... You guys really are active during the day... huh, go figure.

Ok...

These fallacies are not huge deals, and not really even as big as those committed by other players, such as Korlash,

Can you name the "Follacies" I have committed please? Thanks...

Also:

I really don't think he ever quite "got" Mexal's point in the whole shouting match.

Hey just because I do not agree with his point does not mean I don't get it. Jumping on an obvious suspicious thing, putting a pressure vote (Along with a lot of discussion, questions, reasons, etc.) and defending your statements are all very good things and I respect that. However, jumping on people's attacks with your own skeptasism can have the same effects. So I merely countered attacked a point I did not fully agree on, and you think I'm an idiot because of that? Huh... So we should limit our focus of attack on only those who post things and assume the ones attacking them for it are town? (Note that was rhetorical and I am in no way trying to twist your words here. I am merely illustrating my point. Thanks ^^)

As for all this new stuff... I will get to it as soon as I get back! Glad to see a good quality Anatta post... Can't wait to read it.

[Korlash]

When did I get huffy over a vote placed on me?

[Korlash]

And you really have nothing to say about the rest of my post?

No, I just didn't feel the need to confuse you with my bad language before I got the only real answer I wanted out of you. If you want me to use better grammer thats fine, but try and use correct words yourself there.

Lets see,

They might weed out bad players... Your right. A bad player may react badly to it and thus we gain something. However, I generally find a pure random vote does not even make most bad player's react in any bad way. At the same time a pure "I am going to put pressure on you with this vote" vote without any backing has a semi good chance of leading to bad info. (As in an OMGUS vote, an attack at a player's lack of reason, getting annoyed to the point of flaming. Things like that.) But at the same time it can lead to the person being voted for talking. (As in questioning why he was being voted for.)

So in my mind it is much more useful to simply say "Hey so and so. You said this, this, and this. I don't agree with this, and I think this is a pretty suspicious thing. Mind explaining?" instead of "Hey I think so and so is suspicious. Vote: So and So!"

You clearly see how discussion will speed up with the first sentence, leading to effective scum hunting and info for the town. While the second sentence is a gamble as to if the player is bad enough to react. If you want an accurate read of a player you need more then just a reaction to a vote, you need their reaction to a well thought out and based question.

Point two I think is pretty much answered... well not really. I am not claiming bad player. I feel I am a pretty good player, even though the general consensus around here is I am more or less an "idiot who doesn't get things." (Thats how I sum up all your guy's comments about me. I don't believe anyone actually used the term idiot.)

It is not so much that three votes made me talk, it was more I started to actually form opinions about tings at three votes. I feel there is a certain number of votes a player can receive before they feel obligated to say something about it. Such as me, as soon as I get at least 1-2 active player's votes on me I will speak up on things so as to hopefully get my face and ideas recognized and to hopefully answer anything they thought was vote worthy. Granted using myself as an example was not the best thing i could have done to prove my point, so I can see where this could very well be labeled as talking in circles or even a folly.

Third point, you pretty much summed it up. I have, in the past, used a player's random vote to suggest a small distancing technique that could be used by scum partners, also, say I voted you as my first vote. If you die and are proved town, my vote could be used to to show I "voted for town." Neither of those are very good attacks I know, which is why I try to avoid even the possibility of them being used. Better safe then sorry. I am sure there are more examples I just cannot think of the ATM.

Note: I hope you did not read that post.

I am going to try your suggestion of being very clear and what not. This means I will have a quote, then one or two sentences about it. This of course limits my responses and in effect means I will not be able to fully give my opinion on things. I find it hard to imagine how that will help the town, but if thats what you think is best... here it goes:

I'm sorry Korlash, but I just do not think that your arguments are usually internally consistent and/or address the relevant points of a discussion.

I have only seen one tiny "Internal inconsistency" so far so I find it a bit of a stretch to say that they "usually are".

I actually feel my posts do address the relevant points, at least I thought I did.

For one, I'm not sure what "jumping on people's attacks with your own skeptasism"

That means I will attack their claim to see how they react. If they defend it well I am more likely to agree with them, just the same, if they defend it poorly i will be more inclined to disagree with it.

First bold point, okay,

so a smart scum might not trip up if some pressure comes on him, but a dumb one might.

I'm entirely fine catching dumb scum. How good a player is has nothing to do with whether they are scum or not. So here you note that they're not very helpful against good players,

don't acknowledge the idea that bad players might respond differently.

A dumb town may act the exact same way, which could start a long spiral to their lynch where a simple question might have been cleared up in 4 posts.

Bad players always respond differently then good players, like you said how good a player is has nothing to do with if they are scum or not.

Second bold point,

you claim that the pressure of three votes was sufficient to get you talking, despite the fact that you just claimed that a good player shouldn't feel any pressure from votes.

Are you claiming bad player? But here you admit that they can be helpful getting people to start talking, despite the fact that just before you said they weren't helpful against smart players.

Are they only helpful in making dumb players talk?

Were they helpful in making you talk?

I did not feel pressure from the votes, I felt I didn't fully understand where you guys were heading with your Fourth vote plan, so I spoke up about it.

And i will not try and speak for other peoples actions. To some a vote may be a sign for someone to talk, while to others they may see it as I do. You very well could put your vote on someone who you will get a reaction from, I just would rather not take the gamble.

Third bold point, I don't see any players here getting huffy about the random votes placed on them, except potentially you. The other players can do the work, which is apparently important and relevant work, as it got you talking. The only thing I've really ever seen people bringing up random votes for is scum bussing their scumbuddy(s) early on. You seem to acknowledge that random votes have little meaning, as you admit that smart people shouldn't feel pressure from meaningless votes, so why are you so worried about people holding those votes against you later.

I do not fully understand what you mean here so my reasoning here may be a little off. Correct me if I am wrong.

what do you mean by "The other players can do the work, which is apparently important and relevant work, as it got you talking." and how does it apply to this point?

Also I am not so much worried about a good solid attack for a random vote, I just do not want to give people any reason to create a bad attack like those I said before later on. (Voted a towny, distancing, etc.)

That was a bit longer than I had wanted it to be, but I think the point stands. My problem with your arguments, Korlash, has been their lack of internal consistency.

You don't seem to know where you're going or how to get there.

That's why I'm suggesting much tighter, accurately cited posts, so we can actually get to the point of what you're saying and see how it relates to the argument, because right now I just don't see it.

I think of myself as an open minded person so i am trying to work with you here. But I can easily see this as a way to just ignore everything I have been saying and create a "reason to doubt future posts" shadow on me. I am definitely not going to press this issue, as I can agree sometimes I am confusing, but I think it would be a lot better for you to point out what you do not understand about my posts, an let me explain them, then to try and make me change my whole way of playing. With the above quotes I feel I did not get to fully explain my stand on some points, and so I fully expect people to ask me to explain them. So while I will wok on bettering my "language" I also expect you to make an effort to understand my posts, even i it means asking me in specific detail "What does this mean?"

[Korlash]

Sorry guys, I have been swamped at work these last few days. I missed my daily read up of this game and I know that will hurt me later. I will try and catch up tomorrow though.

[Korlash]

Wow I am really going to kill myself if i keep putting this game on hold... Man I am not liking my hour long read up come tomorrow... But two things so I at least have input.

First, I find it strange how Anata went from no votes to three in three posts. With the third one basically saying "I agree with all that." (thats pretty much what I understood from the amen. I haven't actually read Jitsu's post yet so don't misunderstand me that I am trying to push this as an attack.) I just think it strange... Anyways I look forward to what you said about it... it must have one hell of a convincing post...

Secondly:

I love how people post that their votes are for pressure. For me, at least, saying that a vote is for pressure actually reduces the level of pressure on a person.

You are the first person I have ever heard that shares that opinion with me. I have made case after case about how a simple "pressure" vote means nothing overall. And every time I make that argument people hound me for it... I'm glad I am not the only one who at least semi-thinks that way. I was beginning to feel weird...

Well that is my input for today. I have the weekend off so I will have no excuse for not posting my sum up of things. Look forward to it =D

[Korlash]

Wow... my brain hurts... and why are my eyes bleeding?

Ok I had like three or so quotes lined up but have already forgotten them so i guess they were not that important... That just shows how not playing the game firsthand sucks and I hate work... grrr...

Let me see... Anata seems to be in the current spotlight... which I find funny because of how people originally said her post lacked anything real and was all a summary and I do not see how that can say anything about a person's affiliation all. But for the little bit she has been posting I like the idea of people pushing for more from her. Granted some better reasons may help like say... from Mexal. I mean WTF man... For like two full pages (of my reread) I was in total agreement of how pro-town you looked and I agreed you had a sort of... kinda ICish feel to you. Then you go and more or less join a bandwagon on the basis "what he said"... I would have expected at least something from you... Your vote just doesn't sit right with me...

I see Mexal and Jerubbaal as being the most pro-town at this point for their helpful insight, commentary that is helping encourage good town play, and pressure on those that look scummy.

Kinda pointless to say you think the people on your side are most pro town. It could very well be converted into a sort of "Buddying up" thing... I'm not pushing it, just my advice on things...

another thing:

when there were clearly spelled out in the posts and spawned pages of aggressive posts that were virtually impossible to miss,

Nothing is ever "clearly spelled out" in mafia. I mean with all the suspicion, paranoia, stupidity, and newbiness floating around nothing will always seem the same to everyone. Take the massclaim thing. Sudo clearly spelled out that he felt it to be a bad idea but being asked here it was... Yet a few people took that as some kind of scum trap for power roles or whatever. And this is basically what mafia boils down to, who can explain their point in such a way as to make people understand it the best they can.

So, how about, instead of telling her how obvious they are, you explain it to her so that she does understand them. You cannot criticize people for not understanding something unless you have tried to explain it to them.

Right now I would like a bit more from Mexal on his reasons for voting Anata. Even quoting main points from jitsu would be a start...

I want a lot more form anata as well. Maybe a list of people you think is most likely scum and why. Maybe answering a few of the questions posed at you wouldn't be bad.

Right now I need sleep. I have all weekend off (just my luck all you guys leave when I get off... jerks...) So I will be hoping back into the discussion. Again I apologize on my absence as it clearly keeps me from keeping up with you guys and posting things of real use.

[Korlash]

Well I just think someone who makes such good points cannot put a small bit of input in himself to solidify his own vote... I mean "I agree with that they said" is so vague and unhelpful it is more or less worthless... And then you basically come back and say you didn't want to "rehash what other people say." All I asked was you at least pointed out what he said that you agreed with. Thats all. Maybe a reason why you agree would be nice. Otherwise I just take it as vote hopping...

[Korlash]

I just kinda figured the type of player you are you would have had some input yourself.

But it doesn't really matter one way or another seeing as how she hasn't addressed a lot of the points at all. So whether you had input or not it probably would not have been answered at all...

I have some things I have to get to tonight but I plan on being back and posting something detailed later.

[Korlash]

You at least said why you were voting her. He only said "I agree."

your post had points such as "lazy and distorting analysis" and "bad reading and bad reasoning"

You also mentioned how "Anata seems to have attempted to color his(Sudo) actions in a favorable light."

Then finished with:
"However, for now I'll ride the gathering bandwagon. Anata has a lot that needs to be explained. At the least, lazy analysis is unacceptable. Three votes seems like significantly more pressure than two. "

these things here showed me A) Your vote was based on Certain things B) what things they were based on and C) That your vote was to get information on the things you talked about.

With those three points I feel your vote had a good chance of gaining info, while Mexal's vote did not add anything to the discussion. In hindsight, 3 votes is better to get her to talk seeing as how avoiding she is of the points Jitsu made, I still think Mexal should have added something...

[Korlash]

Well I never thought I woudl see a Millionaire reference in a game of mafia... Props for a first there...

As for your tainted info thing I get it. I understand your point I really do. I can understand how hiding info from a player in order to accurately judge their responses can lead you to better information.

But the downside of that is hiding info from a towny may get them confused, scared, or panicky and thus lead to false info on them. Which could spiral down into a very strong case against them that gets them lynched.

in my mind the line that divides both our views is pretty slim and has a lot of ifs and buts in it. I'm not fully against what your doing but I think overusing that strategy can do more harm then good in the long run. Especially to a player who is getting votes based on simple "I agrees" and what not.

For now all I want is to hear her explanation on a few things you said.

[Korlash]

Quick question, Do you agree that the mere statement "I agree with what he said." is all the reason and explanation a vote needs? I can understand that some points you made were good, but by not giving any info or adding anything what so ever, Mexal can either distance himself from any point you made that someone proves false, or push his support for any point you prove even more. In a sense his reasons for voting are vague and allows him to jump on either side of any upcoming issue that spring forth from your points.

And I have not said anything Mexal did was a scumtell (another overused term in mafia) I just wanted to find the exact points he agreed with and WHY! I mean if you agree with someone tell me why, Unless your just saying that to avoid suspicion and cast additional pressure on another player. (Not saying that is what he is doing.)

Be careful. Giving a vote without a detailed reason can indeed be a scumtell, but an insincere attempt to agree by merely adding useless fluff can be too.

I don't see how that fits here. Not giving a reason just because you do not want to be adding useless fluff clearly means you do not think your reasons are good. So I cannot see why your bringing this up. is it to try and defend Mexal? Or is it to say Jer's reasonings were useless fluff? Or was it to say my reasonings were useless?

[Korlash]

If only we could get such thought out posts from anata...

[Korlash]

yay for Postiness!

...

Do we get a reward? Medals? Cake? =DDDD

[Korlash]

Well I will try and be less Careful with my posts then

If your trying to get people to begin looking at me again then all the more to you. In fact you should start it off. I think I have said everything I need to for my "attack" on Mexal, but if you have anything else you want cleared up all you need to do is ask. =D

[Korlash]

Well I actually didn't want to start anything new right now. still waiting on Anata and what not. But seeing as how you brought it up...

I do not want this day to go by with only a fowl swoop and anata dieing. I think changing the attention to 1 or 2 more players is necessary before this day ends.

Kinda funny coming from the second most voted person... Just an observation here... Could be nothing, could be him trying to get pressure off himself.

But you wana get the pressure back on me, go ahead and use that to start you off. I have nothing to hide.

[Korlash]

Yeah, I too do not think what he did is scummy, and I feel justified in the answers I got from him. More or less I am glad I asked him because I am not left with any unknown hole on him.

Also @ Miztef: So because I do not admit my actions are intentionally scummy that means I am non committal? And FYI, be me mafia or town I would try to paint my comments in the best possible light. And if I am able to "slip out of any argument" then I have to either be a very good lier or have some damn good arguments. Maybe even both eh? =D

And I am sorry bout that quote... I have to admit I laughed when you mentioned it... In my defense the "X" and "Z" key are side by side... lolz...

Also I feel I should say some proverbial comment here... like... "Korificus says all mafias raise their hands!" =P

[Korlash]

Oh shit... What the hell guys... *bangs head on desk* Why do I even bother... Ok give me a bit and I'll do a read up... *sighs*

Wait wait wait... i remember seeing something directed at me in there somewhere... let me find it...

Lynch all Liars. You still make no sense to me.

How so? because I admit there is a possibility I am lying? I won't say that isn't a possibility. But if it was something else that doesn't make sense I will be glad to confuse you more... I mean explain it... >.> <.<

[Korlash]

Yeah tell me about it...

[Korlash]

Yeah the "So pro-town must me scum" argument always makes me laugh... then again I have been known to use it from time to time... XD

I was going to do my reread and post today but just to piss Jer off I decided to put it off again

[Korlash]

Not oEJo... He was cool... ;_;

[Korlash]

Ok I will try my best here.. My cat won't get off of me and it is kinda hard to type... Move cat... Ouch...

>.> <.< I am a slave to my own pet... sad days are now...

Ok, between Anata and Miztef I would vote miztef simply because a replacement does change things. Almost none of the stuff you have on Anata can in anyway be linked to her replacement... I mean a simple" You did this? Why?" could get you very good scummy answers, while the same question to a replacement gets you an "I don't know why she did it." And kills your point. Personally I have not seen a lot come from Miztef or Anata and thus why I have not voted them. Granted I have only been skimming these last few pages so I may have missed a few things.

As for CKD's latest posts I find them very funny. I admit it was fun to push Mexal's buttons way back when.. but I have learned that that does not help us so I try not to anymore... (IN fact I have so far found three players on this site you should never push their buttons.. Ryan, Mexal, and Elias... Man does it make the game crazy...)
But I am one to talk aren't I? I was pretty much doing the EXACT SAME ATTACK against Mexal that he is now. The "I don't think your vote without reason is valid" thing... So my points on this issue would be a little biased and thus I do not want to get into it much..

So without scanning the thread again for actual posts I agree/disagree with that is all I can comment on right now... I do look forward to hearing from the replacements though...

And yet again, you're trying to make my vote on Anata seem invalid. You must have a massive hard on for her or something.

Who doesn't? Rowl! Kitty wants some candy!:twisted: (I couldn't resist... Man... I'm going to hell for sure XD)

Also... I just thought of it... The worst game in history of mafia... Vollkan, Jitsu, and Gemelli! O.o... One day of those three would make even the most hardcore mafia fans wet themselves... I think my head would just explode... all over the wall... like... *shudders*

... It is way to scary for even me... I think one day of them posting would be like a combined.. 480,000 words, 12,456 numbers, 50,000 "%" signs, and like... 15,678,452 opportunities for your eyes to begin bleeding... AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! MAKE IT STOP!!!!!

I love random tangents... don't you? ^^

[Korlash]

So basically what you're saying is that you want to lynch Miztef

Personally I have not seen a lot come from Miztef or Anata and thus why I have not voted them.

Easy there.. I never said I

wanted

to lynch him at all...

[Korlash]

That is definately the oddest post I've seen all game. With basically no true content as well....

Really... I am sure I have made odder posts then that... But it more or less is my current stance on things. Like I said, I haven't been totally following this game. I have two Jitsu like posters each hounding me in another game so all my attention is on that one. I thought I gave my current thinking rather well.. Oh well...

On the Anata points... Lets see... Just because she started another game doesn't really mean anything... Perhaps she just plain hates coming home everyday after work to find another 3 pages of discussion from one day. sure that is a pretty bad reason to get out of the game but it is possible...

Also I wouldn't say don't keep building your case against her, do so her replacement knows where he/she stands. But i find it a bit... um... Not good I suppose is an ok way to describe it, to keep piling up the bandwagon on her right now... I mean get your case ready and bullet main points, get questions ready, and all that great stuff but don't force the replacement to enter the game at like L-2 or something... Thats messed up... would you honestly even want to do a reread and begin posting if you enter a game a L-1 or L-2? I would just say screw it and begin to wing it...

[Korlash]

A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him.

Thats a bit... Um... Contradictory... You think the mafia would kill you to frame him yet he would not be worried about framing himself if he were mafia? Right...

As for the Meta-Issue... I believe you cannot talk to people about still active games they are/have participated in. But, seeing as how metaing Anata now is not actually talking to her about it, it should in no way effect that game, PROVIDING, no one else here is also in that game. Or thats my take on it...

And I guess no comment on the NK choice thing... Honestly I can think of a couple better Nk choices the mafia could do then CKD simply so they can frame him tomorrow... But No need to go into them as I understand the thin Ice it is...

Would it really matter how the replacement acted if we had already gotten scummy vibes from the role?

Oh yeah... Lots of reasons why too...
1) If they deem it an unwinable situation they may refuse to play right and just mess around. So to come into the game at a near lynch vote already they may just automatically give up.
2) we will want the replacements opinions on Anata's past actions. What he or she thinks Anata meant, why she did it, what they woudl have done instead, etc...
3) We want the replacement's read on the other players to be as unbiased as possible. So the less we seem like we would just sacrifice Anata before hearing her defense, the more likely to get an accurate response from her replacement. Personally, if I was replacing and two people had each tried to have my previous person lynched BEFORE I replaced after he left.. I would hate those two right off the start... So... Yeah...

Or that is my take on it... let's say Anata is town who did for some reason get caught up... If any of the above happen we could more or less lose a very good replacement player. I mean you all said something about her being "lazy" or something right? Perhaps her replacement will be a bit more like Mexal or Jitsu or something... Wouldn't it be nice to give him or her a chance instead of automatically assuming they are scum right off the start?

Yes, keep your feelings on Anata, and if you believe that strongly keep your vote on her. But I'm asking we do not continue to place votes based on info we will never get the answer to...

[Korlash]

Dang... four posts.. in a row... I need to figure out a system for this game.. Good thign Gunslinger got here in time...

Ok... On that note:

I would say that our best lynch options for today would be mitzef or anata. There have been many points made over the course of these pages, and Mitz and anata have both done suspicious things. The way i figure, Anata would be a good first day choice. She clearly made some summy statements, and we all have picked up on them.

So you come in, say "I agree that either of the two names I keep seeing you guys talk about are good choices but this player is a better choice for no apparent reasons at all!" And then... leave it at that... Sure I am not the best player to post good, reason filled posts, but I never suggest lynches based on nothing at all... either take the time to reread and cite specific examples, or stay out of the current discussions like I am. You don't help things by putting in useless opinions.

(And yes I know I do it all the time but I try to only do it if I am 100% up to date with what is going on and have a pretty good understanding of my feelings on the situations.)

[Korlash]

Really? I just saw Jitsu vote her and I thought she already had 2... So in my mind I saw her with 3 votes.. yeah the last mod vote count was on page 13 but jitsu was one of those voting.. hmmm...

MOD:

Hows about an up to date vote count?

I was more worried about people continuing to vote for her and not what she was voted right now... But yeah I see your point.

[Korlash]

I told you I was mistaken... Plain and simple... If she is only at one vote then thats cool. I just saw Jitsu vote her after it was said she had a replacement coming and I didn't know if it had or will be the trend.

[Korlash]

Well to be honest I just replaced into a game that had already lasted... 43 pages I think... And the guy I replaced was... how to put it... the obvious lynch choice... So I do admit I am a little biased come replacements and why I am so jumpy at voting a player being replaced...
(

Hey Mod

does this count as talking about on going games? did not mention game name, did not mention players, did not mention actions, just metaed it... but still paranoia kicked in... have to ask here... If so can we just delete it and I swear never to do it again? If not I still swear never to do it again...)

Oh a sidet note I still have not really seen anything I feel deems Anata worthy of a lynch. This makes me think a reread is in order and so... Looks like that is what I will be doing tomorrow...

Also on a side note I find CKD more suspicious then Miztef right now... I will also try and outline that in detail tomorrow... for now I shall go /wrists seeing as how I just spent 2 hours on a post that wont get up because of a hammer and a locked thread ;_;... Yeah... Funny cause it's true...

*cries*

[Korlash]

KK thanks... I'll keep my talk off anything that deals with an active game...

Wait... that means... I cannot talk about this game! T_T

=D

[Korlash]

Yeah and it more or less becomes a moot point that only wastes the town's time debating it...

[Korlash]

Yeah we have 3 players that each have replacements on the way yes? The day is more or less at a stand still until we get that fixed because any point anyone brings up will more or less be directed to that by the attacked.

*sigh*

Of course we can try to focus merely on an active... You guys can step up on me if you want.. without enough active players to lynch though I find any pressure at all will be worthless and more or less any discussion will stall out...

*random insult at Mexal* =D

kidding...
>.> <.<

[Korlash]

Yeah... I don't want to keep seeming like I am defending Anata here but that is more or less another "I agree with what they said" vote... You all know my feelings on that matter already...

But if you guys feel so confident in whatever case you have against her go ahead... I will be saying I told you so tomorrow... bank on it...

I have to say that I agree with all of Mexals and Jitsus

posts on this page

about Anata being the lynch for today.

Ok I decided to be fair and look at each of Jitsu's and Mexal's points for Anata being today's lynch on THIS PAGE! to be honest... there is not a single point on this page of why she is in anyway scum... Only points on why replacements should not be given any chance to defend themselves and should be lynched before joining... (Exaggeration I know but you get my point more or less =D)

So

Unvote:, Vote: GunslingerKB

Your vote was not even an "I agree with them!" vote... it was an "I agree with their points that I didn't even read" vote... I will be honest I still have to go back and fully read your case against Anata, but Gunslinger just said his reasons were on this page and yet there are none.. so he is a liar, and is more or less acting strange and scummy to me...

More on the Anata case I think... If I am going to keep up this "defense" of her I might as well know the case right? =D Her replacement better give me money... I like 100's!

And to further prove my point I give for your viewing pleasure some of post 449:

We should give them a chance, and especially get their unbiased opinions.

Come on... Contradiction? Hypocrite? Liar? Mistake? (Yeah I am an ass )

[Korlash]

Alright working backwards...

I see a little meta on her... More or less... If his was a trial.. we would have to ignore it. But seeing as how we know it might as well use it... and it proves:

Nothing at all... many many many things could be happening as Sudo has shown... While you can argue she could have been a scum afraid of being lynched, she very well could have been a town who got fed up with your houndings... An attack like this that has an equal chance of being both sides... Kinda pointless... So far no real case.. I shall keep looking!

I see people admitting her post was more or less a summary.. neither scummy nor towny... no case still...

Jitsu
... After checking for new posts, he agrees that sudo_nym shouldn’t have proposed the mass claim, but he was the one that asked sudo_nym what his ideas were. Am I wrong here?

Clearly she did have a good point against Jitsu... Could be why he has been pushing her... It all means nothing really, just a small thing on Jitsu that proved nothing. But it does make you think how accurate some other of his claims could be... Hmmm... (This going backwards thing is totally cool... so used to going forwards when I reread XD)

I don't buy it. You are making the assumption that she is lazy. You don't know her, you don't know her style yet you can accurately say in 10 posts that she's being lazy. How do you know this? What about her analysis suggests this? The fact that she doesn't know the reasons behind Sudo? The fact that she's leaving out major events in the game while focusing on the minute? Why can't that be calculated? Why can't she be a newbie scum trying to look town by focusing on details that are irrelevant to the main conversation because one of the people in the conversation is scum with her? Is that so far out of the realm of possibility that we automatically assume she's lazy?

Thats a good possibility... Try this one... Why can't she be a new town who does not understand the difference between main points and little details? To her it could very well all seem the same.
Or this: She could be town who thinks the big issues are more of less covered already so she comes at it from a different angle!
Or: She is a VERY good mafia player and thinks that by missing the main points she can more or less keep attention off herself!

All kinda wack theories if you ask me... one of them has to be kinda close I think... So basically the case so far is she seems scummy for missing the major points... I can see that, definitely not worth lynching... but some case at least...

“Why do I have to post follow up questions when Anata doesn't even address the post that was made against her?”

So... your saying she hasn't talked for a while... and now she is getting replaced... so... She... Is scummy.. for not talking... when she was getting replaced?

Seems a bit odd...

This actually makes me want to find out just how far back we have to go to find a real case against her... and that brings me to post 324 in which we are told she is being replaced... that was 6 pages ago!!!! 6 pages! So... more or less anything after that are attacks that could not be answered... So I personally think anything after that point is more or less not a case... Dangit! Now I hate this backwards thing...

*Sigh*... So it isn't my fault I have no idea what your guy's case is... it's been too long...

Anyways her last post seems to be post 265... *sigh*... This requires more then 5 min of my time me thinks...

I am seriously going to go back over your complete case against her tomorrow I promise... Until then I want you to take some of the things you have against her and weigh how much they mean unanswered, versus how much you are making them out to be. Until then my vote on Gunslinger stands... that was just weird what he did...

On a side note I see you guys have said a lot about Miztef these last few pages... he is here! Why not continue to push whatever that was until we get the replacements in? Or push Gunslinger? Or push me? seems it would be a better use of our time...

[Korlash]

Um... I honestly laughed at that... Sorry... I need to sit down for a second... Ouch my spaghetti...

Ok... Is it just me or is the quote:

Why else would you be jumping on the weaker player that has made some dumb posts? (Ie: Me)

Not the funniest damn thing you have ever heard...

Ahh man... My head hurts... Ohhh that was great...

Listen man... No matter how newb you are if you make a dumb post expect to get hounded on it.

Ok... where was I...

Slightly OMGUSish... But reasonable... I appreciate you focusing on a more active player... Props for that...

Now how to completely turn the tables on you... decisions... decisions... Oh I haven't had such a hard time choosing something since the Mace was invented.. How I loved the Flail... anyways...

Um... I pointed out where you agreed we should let the replacements come in and then you more or less go back on that as your reasons to vote. So either you have no reasons or you have contradicted yourself...

I jumped on Jitsu kinda... Not a full on vote but his vote more or less started my earlier rants against the Anata Bandwagon... As for Mexal.. I more or less ignore him... =D

You seem dire to make me look like scum, even though half the people in this game have realized im pretty much ust a newb. It seems as though you know Anata is scum, and that your trying to protect a teamate.

Newb =/= automatically towny or a free pass in this game. I could care less if this is your first game, you did something I felt was scummy and I called you on it. If you think being new is a good excuse then boy do you have the wrong game...

As for the teammate thing, not to get to WIFOM, but if I were Anata's partner I would use this as a perfect time to bus... I mean Replacement... Day 1... I am not exactly the most pro-town looking player so far... All in all it would make more sense that her partners would be pushing for her lynch... But as I said it becomes way too much WIFOM and I don't like to get too far into that.

Many people made clear posts about why Anata would be scum, and you just seemed to "fail to understand why she could be" Now it seems like your trying to tturn the attention from Anata onto me. Just because of some weak post i made.

Again... Stop falling back on your newbiness.. Feel confident.. that is key to a mafia game... No matter how dumb you may think you sound, be as confident as you can and you are more likely to win over the other players. That being said... Let me show you how it's done...
*Clear throat*

I have clearly mentioned how I want the town to focus on active players. Attacking and voting replacements will get us no where.. there is no chance in hell we will lynch someone right now.. we have 3-4 people being replaced plus me, thats 5 townies (Potentially) not going to vote in a lynch. So... Not nearly enough people to lynch. So I feel we need to press the actives to squeeze as much info as we can right now or else risk a complete standstill. So yes, I would rather get the attention off her and onto you. I also would like to get it onto me (Quite frankly I feel I can totally dominate you in any back and forth attacks so I have no fear putting myself in the spotlight. No offense...)

So more or less thats my stand... As for the "Clear posts about why she is scum" thing... Those were 7 pages ago... Restate them now or wait for her replacement... Whether or not you feel the case has been stated, she has been inactive for half this dang game... half of your "case" is worthless because it more or less hangs on the fact "She gave no pro-town excuses for things she did" when in reality.. She barely gave any excuses at all because she has not been here...

Any case brought around after she asked for a replacement should not be used as a basis for a lynch. If you cannot understand where I am coming from by all means continue on with this. You guys could be the most lucky town in the world and have magically found a mafia member... But I feel the chances are more likely your all blowing it out of proportion or blindly following the scum on their anti-town crusade.

So... Let me throw up my case... and see what you guys think about it...

When you attack someone, you base a lot of your stuff on how that player reacts to it yes? So their reaction be it scummy or towny looking will direct how you think of them. at the same time, in most cases, if a player deliberately does not answer questions/attacks thrown at them then they seem scummy for not answering. BUT, when a player is

UNABLE

, I repeat

UNABLE

To respond to those attacks you more or less lose everything you were trying to get from attacking them in the first place.

See half of what you guys are calling a "Clear case" on Anata is speculation about what she "MIGHT" have meant... Because we do not have her explanations on things, we do not get to see what her excuses/reasons are for what she did and so we are all rolling with what WE THINK happened. This is very dangerous people... You are all pushing for a lynch of a defenseless towny(Not saying she is town, just a term I use to describe anyone I am unsure about... better safe then sorry)

And yes I know if Anata comes up scum I look bad, but I don't care about myself. I care about this town and this town winning! And so I do not want us to end day 1 by taking a huge gamble and missing out on info from the people being replaced...

While I will say Anata is probably the "MOST SUSPICIOUS" person, I do not see enough for a lynch... Not in a long shot... You guys had a case against her 8 pages ago, but it wasn't enough to lynch then.. so it damn sure isn't enough to lynch now... So if you guys want to take a gamble go ahead. I only hope you wise up come tomorrow... And I really hope you do not make a huge mistake we regret for the rest of the game...

My vote sticks on you Gunslinger.. You rely too much on the fact you are "New" and have even admitted your posts are "weak and dumb."

[Korlash]

Ok you are seriously either trying desperately to make some case on me or are hoping to throw anything I have said against Anata out the window... I don't know which...

I know the case you guys had on her 8 pages ago. I got that one... Thats great... And as you said "I was interested in hearing her defense"... SHE HASN'T GIVEN ONE! And she never will... So most of the case you had on her is merely SPECULATION! I mean I could easily turn what you said against me as you trying to "make me the bad guy" in one way or the other... And if you never said anything about it... That would be my thinking

for the rest of the game

! And thus you would be scum. I know this is not the case though, and If I felt like making it seem like it was I know you would come back and turn it around on me. Thus, because you can defend yourself, any "stupid" or "Inconsistent" or even some kinda of "maybe" case can all be shot down before it turns into a real case.

The Anata thing was a so called "Maybe" case.. that is she could have had valid reasons for half the stuff you guys accused her of. The biggest being "Lazy" as an excuse if I remember correctly... But because you never got any real answers from her you all assume everything you talked about is true! And so everything you think makes her scum is just your opinion of it and not hers!

I really hate I am unable to explain things... hmmm.. how to say it...

Ok... Lets say a person attacks a guy, the guy defends, and the first person completely ignores that persons defense and continues his attack. That is almost exactly what you guys have been doing these last 6 pages. You refuse to let her defend herself and you are afraid she will get out of a lynch? Your afraid she will defend herself! Come on... Seriously... You honestly will lynch someone who has been unable to defend themselves half the game? You guys deserve to lose... Your completely letting the mafia take this game over... *shakes head* I almost don't care anymore... It's barely worth playing this game as it is... But I would rather have a loss then a replacement any day I suppose...

Do you feel that you currently understand the case made against Anata or not?

I feel you have no case... Or more accurately, the case you have is only one sided and has no defense from the person you have attacked... Anyone will seem scum if you refuse to hear their side.

If you guys think lynching someone who is unable to defend themselves is fine then you are anti-town. Plain and simple. I would not be surprised if it is Jitsu, Mexal.. and... well I would say Gunslinger right now but the mere fact he switched votes makes him seem more likely to just be a new town. (No offense)

Do you still feel Anata is scummy? Do you still agree that there is a case against her? How good is it, compared to the other suspects?

I feel... that the case you guys had on her back when she was posting did put her on top of my list.. but not nearly enough to vote... the fact you seem to want to lynch her for no "real" reasons makes me put you on top of my list (Not enough to vote, because then I would have to bring up a case, and outline it, and get myself in more trouble cause I suck at explanations.)

Point is the "Current" case on her is BS. And until either she gets a chance to defend herself, or her replacement shows up the case will only get more BS the longer you add to it.

Based on comments in 471 and 474, it sounds like you are pretty sure that the town would be making a mistake by lynching her. Why are you so sure?

Well, do what I did, put yourself in her shoes. What if you were out of internet contact for a week and everyone lynched you on the basis "You did not defend yourself." How would you feel? I mean we have a 1 in 4 chance we all randomly picked the correct person to lynch... Nothing she has posted or any of your attacks have altered that ratio for her... so its a gamble to lynch her... In my eyes at least...

Do you feel that the case on Gunslinger is stronger than that of the other suspects?

No, but I want to test his "newness." See exactly how he reacts to votes and things... not to mention I would rather weak attack actives then BS attack inactives... I'm glad you have finally begun doing that too. Feels good being Pro-town for a change doesn't it? =D (Joke...)

What is your opinion on Miztef and CKD?

Both of them would be better choices o lynch then Anata. Thats for sure... I don;t like CKD's posts a few pages back I think I talked about them in my little 4 post spiel you all said was worthless... he seems into the Miztef lynch... Who I myself don't really remember the case we had on him, but I feel he would do a better job defending himself then anata would...

I think that was all your questions... As for the "inconsistencies" you spotted... Let me see if I can shed some light on those too...

"you see some of the meta on her, but then you say that it proves nothing."

Yes I literally "saw" that you were metaing her.. and felt what you said proved nothing...No inconsistency there..

"You agree that Mexal's theory is "a good possibility", but then you go on to offer others that you don't really seem believe (though one of them is probably close)."

Out of the four listed (My three and his) one of them had to be close.. there were two that involved her being mafia, and two that involved her being town. While thy were all off the wall one had to have something right... Even if it was just her affiliation. Good point, still no inconsistencies..

"Then you says that there is "some case at least" [against Anata] but it's "definately not worth lynching". " There is ALWAYS some case... Like.. "That guy voted for that guy!" Depending on the situation that could be part of a case... But it is so not worth lynching over...

"Then you says it isn't your fault that you have no idea what the case against her is, even though you seem to see some of it." I saw what you had 8 pages ago.. I see nothing "New" you have now... So.. yeah... I have no idea why she is all of a sudden "Lynch before replaced" material.

On that note.. How the hell can you not see not waiting for a replacement to join before lynching as a town move? How can you justify killing someone without giving them any chance to defend themselves? Give me one good reason...

So I didn't see any inconsistencies in that paragraph... in fact I see none in the second one either... what the hell man... If you don;t like me fine.. but you need to stop with BS cases... I like the way you think but either you've become too obsessed with how "great" a player you are, or you are getting annoyed at how hard it is to convince the town to do it your way. (Implying your mafia here)

You know what I don't give a dang anymore... Do what the hell you want...

Unvote:

Don't expect me back until the replacements get here... Have fun losing...

[Korlash]

Yeah... wow is right... *Breaths*

Ok for your benefit I will help you out here... lets see post number.. post number... I believe Post 448... Apparently all i said was that I felt you had one contradictory sentence... Perhaps I had another post... Let me check..

I think I was thinking of post 395... Again no real points... weird...

So it seems my memory of not liking your posts was merely that.. I did not like your posts.. foudn nothing scummy in them, just didn't like em =D

As for the "Better lynch" Thing, I suppose I shoulda phrased t "Better player to attack because they are active." my bad...

[Korlash]

Oh no I got it... That was part of your case 8 pages ago I agreed with.. But all this new stuff you keep bringing up in the last 6 pages or so that you all feel strengthens your case, the meta thing as an example, is all BS because she cannot defend against THAT!

Oh I read the thread... I read it quite well I think... I just try to ignore any BS... Wow... I suppose that is half the thread isn't it... Touche... I guess I have only read half the thread then

[Korlash]

Ok first up... (laughs) I think Something Mexal said actually got to me O.o... (laughs again)

I never even thought of the fact that the Mod said she requested a replacement... (Laughs again)

Actually I never even considered that into my thinking. In truth I hate to lynch someone who hasn't given any sort of defense at all (If for nothing else the fear of some kind a of jester) but she did CHOOSE to leave. Man to stand here with my foot in my mouth after all that... (Laughs) sad day for Crap logic Korlash... (That one was real...) (laughs)

But I am still against a lynch before hearing from the OTHER replacements at least. I mean if you all think the replacement will be unable to change the case because you are willing to hold them to what Anata did what is the harm in waiting? Or even if you feel the replacement will "Slide out of a lynch" then at least reason with me that the OTHER replacements we are getting deserve some day one input. (Or at least NEED input so we can use it or whatever come day 2)

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think I finally see what the hell you're trying to say

You know what, I'm glad someone does. I barely got it myself! =D

Now this is actually a pretty decent explanation.

Good Explanations: 1 Crappy explanations: sideways 8

Korlash, I am going to go absolutely frickin insane if I read any more ellipses in your posts. Seriously, it's painful. Write real sentences.

I believe I had a page long chat with another fellow on this matter in another game. Those ellipses are my trademark (That and crap logic XD) so if you want me to give them up you have to give up something in return. If you never use the letters "X", "R", and "U" again I will never post another ellipse. (In this game only that is...) (Laughs)

And no I do not expect you to do that. I have no intention of giving up my ... for any reason XD

But alas, I honor my deal. No more "..." until you use one of those letters! The game is on! *game face*

This is so hard.. eek! So close.. AHHHH! I may lose!

[Korlash]

Actually, I do it on purpose. Like I have said before I am not good at explaining things so I went ahead and made it common for me to post like that. In fact, I instinctively do a "..." instead of a simple "." now. Sad really T_T

I felt when I began that that if I was bale to accurately explain cases while still being a Jumbled "Mish-Mash" that I would have to begin focusing my subjects down to simple exact sentences. I never really got the hang of it and just ended up picking up that annoying habit. I won't stop the "..." mostly because I can't. Like I said... Instinctive... dangit!

But because you have asked me to, I will try to avoid them as much as possible. I too was not trying to be a "dick" I just like the joke factor when it comes to this subject =D (I believe I asked the other guy to give up all "numbers" because he was one of those: 4:3:1 or WCS 3:3:1 type of guys. I never actually intended you to do it. although I was interested in how far you actually got )

Plain and simple: I can not promise you I will become any clearer, but I will try to avoid all ellipses in the future. (Provided you do not jump down my throat if I miss one or two.)

=D Friends?

...

[Korlash]

Well... We could sing Showtoons! =D

[Korlash]

Yeah! Like I said I am working on it!

And I would like to QFT this:

Frankly, we may not have a choice anyway, as the town will probably need some votes from the replacements to reach a majority on a lynch candidate.

So I think it is pointless for people to post things such as:

God, this day needs to end. I know we are waiting on replacements, but there is nothing important being discussed right now. What should happen?

It does not help things at all. But then again, I too have no idea what to talk about.

X.X

[Korlash]

I remember once when I replaced into a 43 page long game...

*Has nightmares*

[Korlash]

Yeah... Ad much like that I really do not ever want to do it again ><

But I kid... Seriously... I never want to kill someone with my bare hands again... *Looks sad*

[Korlash]

vote: Korlash I'm going with my first impression this time.

Can I ask why?

[Korlash]

WRONG! When I am mafia I find that I am actually a very unhelpful goon, but tend to be very good when I am say the mafia RB or the Don... saying I am a helpful goon obviously means you missed something!

That was a joke BTW... I am "always" town

Ehh Fair enough, I guess I do deserve some votes right now... Still... Wouldn't mind a more pressing case...

[Korlash]

No I am town typing for my own amusement... Your pretty close though I give you that...

Now how about a couple comments on the game so far, feelings on every player, main points against me, The usual replacement stuff ;P

[Korlash]

nah, I think I'll lurk for the rest of the day, leaving my vote on you because you are the person I think is scum. I don't feel like explaining why the sky often appears blue today, and I don't feel like laying out my case against you.

Ok... Now that I have a reason other then OMGUS,

Unvote:

Vote: Adel

Fine then... we can each have a stare down... >.> I will never blink!!!!!

[Korlash]

Unvote you? A person who refuses to give any reason for a vote? Hell yeah! Lets do that![/sarcasm]

And what the heck... I refused to vote for you and insted asked for a reason why you voted me. If I had voted there it would have been purely OMGUS... But instead of giving a reason you more or less admitted you had none... OR that you were refusing to give them... and so I now had a logical reason to vote you.

As for "Confirmation bias" you are way off. I had no intention of voting you before, as I said I merely wanted to find out why you voted me. So any vote then would be OMGUS and I find that to be a very bad reason to vote.

And now that I had a reason to vote I saw no reason not to.

And I do not even know why I am arguing this... either give a reason for your vote, and some input on the game so far, or I see no reason to take my vote off of you.

Man voting me just because I got you killed in another game... Who's really biased here... ><

[Korlash]

Citing what game? Where? When?

Is this the game where we had that long long discussion about this? I keep forgetting...

As for your question, No i do not want to get modkilled.. I want to know any reason why you are voting me other then "You feel like it"

And you should type more...

[Korlash]

Most likely... Probably just waiting on a third person to replace... I would be happy to replace him

Wouldn't it be funny if he were mafia? Then I would have to play both sides... Like play pro-town for me and play pro-mafia for him... Kinda complicated but I would win no matter what! =D

wouldn't that mean I lose no matter what also D=

[Korlash]

Is he the only one you find scummy right now, or is he just your number one suspect at the moment?

aren't his reaction informative? I think so

Nice job avoiding the question... In fact nice job avoiding all questions directed at you...

[Korlash]

Get away... What?

Your trying very hard to "make" a case around me aren't you? You seriously have bad feelings for me don't you...

Alright I will make this plain and simple so even you can understand.

I did nothing wrong. And so you more or less just said I have been doing nothing wrong all game. Thank you! <3 But I do not need your help here...

See unless you can specifically prove the game I "mentioned" is still active, which you cannot without citing it, You cannot prove I have done anything wrong. And even if it is still active, I did not link it, quote it, or even mention anything big other then the fact I helped to kill someone.

So Adel... You wouldn't by chance be trying to usurp my title of Crap Logic Korlash would you? Cause I do not think that title would fit you very well... I mean you do not even look like Korlash... ><

Also if you can even find a structure in my posts you are crazy...

[Korlash]

this is the scummiest post I've read so far, by any player.

Can I ask why?

Korlash is scum, and knows who isn't scum. He didn't want to push the wagon on Anata- he wanted to be on the record warning against it.

Or you are scum and know she is innocent and so you want to be on the record saying it. It is all a WIFOM game here. Heres a scenario: you, me, and her are all partners. This could all be a ploy to kill me and make you two appear innocent the rest of the game. Or here is another one: I am town, She is town, and you are town and this is all blown out of proportion.

I still like the truth. I am a town who does not want day one to end with a random lynching. And so I fight tooth and nail to prevent that from happening only to have a replacement I fought so hard to give the chance to speak come after me for no apparent reason at all...

I am hoping to give you the benefit of the doubt here that you are merely waiting to catch up before creating a case against me and are simply hoping to further your case due to my reactions here. But once you finish reading you better give me a darn good reason why you have been avoiding our questions...

only a fool will tempt the God

I assume you mean the Mod here... No I am not tempting him... I just know the difference between citing an active game and mentioning something done in another game while not giving away any specific details.

While I would hate to be mod killed, I hat even more having to limit my posts by the fear of that happening. I am not Ryan. I will not deliberately break the rules. But I will not let the fear of a Mod killing prevent me from trying to figure out what you have against me here... seeing as how you obviously have no real case to speak of... (HA ha ha... Pun... ><)

[Korlash]

Yeah... that is sooo much more helpful then Adel... How the hell do I defend myself if you all refuse to give any reasons?

I can see overreacting to a weak case resulting in a couple additional votes. But to claim you had "weird feelings" about me and that the no case on me has "Given Shape" To your paranoia... Come on man...

Forget it... I'm getting tired of this game...

Shoulda went into lurker mode a week ago... Seriously debating it now...

I'll wait to hear from Anata's replacement first... Until then either make a case or shut the hell up...

On a side note: Sorry to hear about that Sudo.. Sounds like your not having a good week..

[Korlash]

Korlash's latest post seems like a typical scum about to die post, and based on alot of the evidence adel gave

A) I have (Had) two votes.. I am not about to die...

B) What evidence? I think I saw one piece of what you could call evidence... And even that was a bit... iffy...

And yes I apologize for my lurker comment... I had just come from a game on another forum where I had receive 8 votes in a row because I was "Too loud" (i.e. posted too much...) I mean come on... How is posting too much worth lynching? And 8 votes? o.O

*sigh* Makes me sad too cause it was the first time I have ever been lynched.. dumb town... Oh well.. More time I can spend on here I suppose.

I've found korlash to be suspicious right from the start. I didn't honestly think he'd become a lynch candidate this late in the day, and if he does turn out scum, Gunslinger and Anata become more likely townies.

Ok this is getting a bit extreme here guys... PLEASE! For the love of god give me some reason... Something SPECIFIC!... Or at the least something I can try to defend myself on... I'm only at L-3 right now but I have already seen Mexal state he "justs wants to lynch someone" and I would not be surprised if a few others felt the same way.

Also @ Miztef: I honestly only see this as you trying desperately to get the pressure off yourself... Still waiting for Adel to give something solid so for now it's only an

FoS: Miztef

Personally I had not seen much from you worth a vote or even worth this bandwagon... But to say "Adel had evidence" is... well... kinda BS...

Oh, and seeing as how you all refuse to give me stuff I have to work with what I have so here it goes:

Korlash's latest post seems like a typical scum about to die post,

Really? You know what a scum would do in this situation? Do you know how I play as scum? Do you know how I play as a pissed of towny who keeps asking for a reason people vote yet they refuse to give one? Can you give me 3 examples of times scums did this right before they died?

Seriously You don't know me, and you definitely do not know how every single scum plays.

(And yes I realize that last post was definitely worth another vote, I woulda voted anyone who did it too, but as I said I have to work with what you give me! You understand don't you XD)

So I ask the remaining players who are not votign me, please look over this "case" against me.. if you even see one PLEASE VOTE ME! BUT FOR GODS SAKE TELL ME THE CASE! Thank you! <3

[Korlash]

Yeah I heard you did those... Can ask what it is actually supposed to prove? Or is it just something fancy?

[Korlash]

gee thanks... *rolls eyes*

So... It more or less shows a lot from jitsu... very little from AA actually.. I thought he had done more...

And me in the Middle =D yay!

[Korlash]

Dude... both posts were posted at the same time ok.. I totally missed your post 553... Take it easy... I'm glad to see you really do have issues with me though... Kinda creepy post there though...

Ok first off who made you mafia God? I could easily come into a game, make up low numbers, and say player X is suspicious. But I don't because it is all a load of Crap.

If you were a power role you would've kept a lower profile - unless you are a far greater idiot than what I take you for.

Oh i know I am a far greater idiot then you take me for... wait...

Anyways, whether you think I am a good player or not I know how to keep the mafia off my back. And looking like a worthless towny day one makes me a very very unlikely NK choice. So I play this way in about 99% of my games. Minusing the newbie games of course.

If you were a townie, a sharp-minded scumbag would've ran at least a decent wagon on you by now.

Or perhaps I was able to get out of the wagon they tried, or maybe I make a good scapegoat tomorrow, or maybe it just isn't worth the time to switch from the fake Anata case onto a fake me case. You cannot speak for the scum.. unless of course... You know...

So other then calling me stupid and trying to paint me off as some moron player you basically have no real case on me. Nice... I am felling better and better about my vote.

Although I do admit there seems to be a connection between me and Sydo a lot this game hasn't there? Weird...

[Korlash]

Cause you have no case...

You have you coming in here pretending your some expert mafia hunter who knows all. That is not a case... that is proabbly the most uncase I have ever seen... No I take that back.. the game were I was lynched for being "To loud" that was the most uncase I have ever seen.. this is a close second...

And I am voting you because you are scum... Or at least I believe you are scum...

[Korlash]

Ok... Is that your case? cause that happened after you voted me.. so in other words you admit to having no case then...

And I have already explained that... Do I have to spell it out again or are you even dumber then I am? (Not possible... or is it? What's 2+2???)

[Korlash]

Yeah that is so much more helpful then half my posts...

You know if you boil it down to numbers over half of your posts are as unhelpful as mine are... Kinda odd seeing as that is like... your only reason for voting me...

[Korlash]

How could I address anything when nothing was said?

[Korlash]

So jitsu has the most posts and more or less the best ones overall...

I didn't know Mexal had posted so much...

CKD has posted a lot more then I thought... That took me by surprise...

And you guys were really set on lynching Anata when she had only posted 9 times? Are you crazy? that is messed up...

OOC: About how long does it take you to do these graphs? Also do you use some specific program?

[Korlash]

Woohoo third again!!!!

Wait... how is that suppose to help? I mean... I can honestly see no point in knowing how many.. OOOOO...

Length of posts? Correlate the number of posts with number of words shows who posted a lot with little content and a little with lots of content...

Ok...

And did you honestly count every single word? o.O

Even using some tool like Microsoft word or something that had to take a loooooong... time...

[Korlash]

Why not CKD?

Unless you don't feel like indulging me here... >.>

[Korlash]

Ok...

Fine with me...

>.>
<.<
"Anyone got any threes?"

[Korlash]

Well you better be glad I don;t feel the same way or I would switch my vote to you...

Unlike some of you... Mixtef and Mexal for instance.. and a lesser part Adel.. I am interested in killing scum today.

But I admit today is getting rather boring isn't it...

[Korlash]

NOTE: This is the exact same thing I was arguing about when we had the bandwagon on Anata. How can you say I am over reacting after everything I have been saying these last 6 pages?

[/Note]

My reaction seems to indicate I'm scummy?

What... The fact i just got blindsided by a person who refuses to give reasons as to a vote, not does not give them, not gives bad reasons, REFUSES TO GIVE THEM!

I was nice, I asked, I did not jump to conclusions. I even waited for another player to second my questions (Jitsu also asked Her to explain them) and when she outright refused to give any I felt I was entitled to vote her. Then out of nowhere TWO MORE PEOPLE decide SHE HAD ENOUGH EVIDENCE AGAINST ME!

I swear if any of you can even show me a single piece of evidence she had I will vote myself... I admit I could have handled it a lot better, but I do not see my reaction as being overly scummy seeing as how I all of a sudden had a pro-lynched wagon on me for no apparent reason. And yes I am afraid this wagon will turn into a lynch in no time because I am pretty sure AA, CKD, and Mexal would not mind lynching me just to end today. In fact I was worried about you too Jer... I would like to know what 2 points it is your talking about.... Unless you want to be a jerk too and condemn me without informing me as to what it was I did...

I mean seriously there are 4 people voting me... At least one of you can tell me why... Is that really such a scummy thing to ask for? Honestly... This town seems to have made it it's goal to lynch a player today without any due cause... Huh... it almost makes me regret helping Anata.. almost...

Oh well... I don't mind being the sacrificial lamb today I suppose.. better then losing the Doc or Cop at least... I wasn't even going to bother with my role anyways as I find it more or less pointless... Unless I choose correctly... and knowing me I woudl choose the cop and that would just suck.. "Congratulations! You have successfully blocked the cop! You are the worst towny ever!"

Man... I could totally see that happening.. HEY! I just realized... If I got to hammer myself I would totally be proving Adel wrong on TWO COUNTS! Sweet... Hey can you guys go ahead and put me at L-1? I'll do you all a favor and end the day.

[Korlash]

Theres a mafia RB too? o.O Now that role would work... cause then you would at least have some kind of understanding of who could be who... Instead of having to guess...

[Korlash]

Korlash, any reason you keep saying I'd just vote you to end the day?

Yeah your post 475:

Honestly, I don't care anymore. It's day 1. Just lynch someone so we can move on with the game.

My theory is that Korlash panicked, just like his scumbuddy Miztef did, and claimed far too early.

Of course you would think that way, You plainly said you would not believe me if I claimed. And whether you think it was early or not I am still banking on the fact that people have been saying "This game is getting long/boring/whatever lets just lynch" and so my wagon can more or less be quick lynched at any moment...

I don;t care about being the NK, as I said before I find this role to be otherwise useless overall. I could hurt the town far more then I could help it. Granted I could prevent the NK too but I am not that good a player at RaF and so it would all be a matter of luck for me to do so.

Better I die then the doc/cop/tracker/vig... Or that is how I see it.

Scum planning a fakeclaim, on the other hand, are always tempted to claim earlier rather than later, because the pressure of a strong wagon can force information out of the targeted scum as well as his buddies. That is what I think we;ve just seen from jeb and Miztef.

Think what you like, looking back at Mexal's post I quoted I think I am more or less justified in my fear of a quick lynch... however the fact the only case against me is "I post a lot" is BS, I really shouldn;t be. I can link you to a game in another forum where I got 8 voes on me, the 3 hammering ones all within one post of each other, on the basis I was "Too loud" i.e. posted too much. I had already claimed town, although I denied it >< so it is more or less the same as this game. I ended up being town. However the game is still active (But on another forum) so I think any link to it would break the rules... But I could link you to the main forums and you could just go look at the game yourself... ehh it is still iffy i think...

Anyways i don;t feel like defending myself against a nothing case, as the defense would just be "I do this every game" and that is sooo helpful [/sarcasm]

Oh well.. I will check back in here later and see what you guys think..

also one last thing:

I had never encountered a mafia roleblocker. That is, of course, an unfair statistic, but I'm basing my unvote on this,

I know you say you are lazy but can you explain this to me? You are basing your vote on the fact You have never seen a Mafia RB and so it is more likely I am one? Is that what you are saying? I just don't fully understand this and want it clarified is all...

[Korlash]

no comment

*Sigh* I kinda figured that was coming... And while I get your whole "meta" thing as to why you are doing this, the way you are playing is just kinda... taking the fun out of the game...

[Korlash]

This sticks out at me like a sore thumb. Seems like you unvoted to try and remove some momentum from your scumbuddy, then jump back on so you'll be on the record as having lynched a scummy (which I believe is called distancing). I'm now very comfortable with my vote as is.

... *sighs*

If I do get lynched I hope you guys notice things like this...

And this:

and I'll take that as an admission of guilt.

I told you a couple of times you shouldn't type so much.

How is that an admission of guilt?

[Korlash]

@korlash: That was just a typing mistake on my part. As defence for my eariler action of unvoting you, in my experience, mafia roleblockers are rare. However, adel seems to know what he is talking about, and no one has disagreed with him, therefore, I revoted you because that knowledge of mine was incorrect.

Well logically no one can disagree with her because she has not actually said "anything." Or that is how I see it. I may be missing it because I am the one she is attacking but honestly all I see is her saying "I know what I am doing Vote: So and so." If it were anyone else I would argue she was "bussing" but I know that is not the case.. weird...

[Korlash]

First off Welcome and thanks Mr. Flay... (Great now we have two of them... )

>.>
<.<

What? I never said anything...

He's one of those players about whom I never quite know what to think, because it seems like he can't really think straight.

I find that offensive.. making fun of me because I am unable to think straight.. I feel I think in a circle quite well thank you very much!

It still seems to me that anything from that list would be deemed scummy if Korlash did it.

No Comment! =D (kidding kidding...)

[Korlash]

Dodecamafia? Who, what, where, how is that?

[Korlash]

Fine...

*rolls eyes*

[Korlash]

Two what?

Two "experienced" players. Not that I would ever call her experienced seeing as how she cannot even present a good reason as to why I am the top suspect.

Also now that this system of yours has pegged the wrong person, do you think you will ever again be able to run with it? seriously... I am so close to becoming a legend! =D

I can see it now...

*many games later*

Adel: Vote: PlayerX!

PlayerX: Why?

Adel: No comment!

Me: Oh I remember this, she is always wrong Vote: Adel

PlaerX: She is?

Me; Yeah check out this game: *link here*

PlayersX,Y,andZ: Ohhh... Vote: Adel

Mod: You have lynched adel, she was town!

o.O

Even in my fantasies I lose... WTF! ><

[Korlash]

Oh sure I bet you are... Anything to get the heat off your back eh? (Kidding kidding... Or am I????)

I'm interested... does the title of "WiKid" mean you started the wiki? Or that you do a lot of the editing?

[Korlash]

Korlash, you just keep talking with the random junk that doesnt matter. I know I dont get a chance to post much, but you litter the thread unessicarily.

yeah I am intentionally littering the thread with useless stuff. You have caught on to my master plan! Oh noes! [/sarcasm]

[Korlash]

And, seriously, Korlash, just stop posting crap. You don't need to make a googly-eyed response to every single comment, I promise. Please continue posting anything you have to say that is game related.

naw... I'll post whatever I feel like... If you want to lynch me for it go ahead. But 9 times out of 10 the "crap" I post is actually my general feelings of the game hidden beneath a layer of jokiness. Either learn to live with it or don't. But unless the Moderator says it I see no reason to stop.

Besides if Adel is allowed to not post I think I am entitled to over post thank you very much.

Korlash should stop with the kneejerk posts and make more sense

I tried to begin making sense a long time ago, after that a rumor about Y2K started and there was a huge Riot in Boston... People keep trying to tell me there was no connection, but I don't feel like taking that chance! >.> <.<

Seriously, your overconfidence is going to be the doom of you, if not the entire town. I don't necessarily think you're scum, because your predecessor was a non-entity, but this overly analytical style isn't doing you any favors. Your "meta" on me finally joining a Mini Normal is completely off-topic.

Yeah I take back any scum thing I have said about Adel cause I really don't think what she is doing qualifies as a "scumtell"... man I hate that word... But I still think she needs a couple votes to stay in line. Just figured I would say it now instead of getting into a debate about whether or not I "think she is scum" later. ^^ (Take that people who say I only post crap!)

but he's claimed Roleblocker, so I don't understand why there's still four votes on him.

Yeah but they all seem to think I meant "mafia Roleblocker" or whatever that is... I am not a prostitute! (Well... maybe on the weekends...)

Still there is usually something to that "claim early" thing they keep using at me so i guess that is why I still have so many votes. I don't really mind the votes I just think they could be used elsewhere. But at least people are actively attacking the actives I guess... (Can't get much more active then me can you? XD Well maybe if you jack a rabbit up on crack and Redbull i guess...)

Vote: Setael

- abandoning one game in favor of another while being pressured is a major scumtell.

Do you mean Anata abandoning, or Setael? cause I don't see where Set abandoned anything...

Last thing:

-1 for Miztef in pointing that fact out "in case anyone missed it", though.

What do you mean by -1? More scummy? Or less scummy? Also where did he point that out? cause if he had I would assume he wouldn't be voting me yet he is... So... I'm confuzzled here! (Yeah yeah yeah I know how ironic it is... shoot me...)

[Korlash]

I don't know if Anata abandoning the game is a scum tell or a just a newb tell- mafia is far less fun for most people when there is a wagon on you. Role and alignment doesn't change that much.

I don't know... I personally think that is when it gets really fun! It all comes down to how good you are at convincing people you are right and others are wrong, and if you are mafia, it comes down to how good you can lie! Then you get into other things, how long can you keep your "role" hidden. (Vanilla, mafa, powerrole, Sk, etc...) How can you come back from a crushing blow, what kind of defenses can you come up with on a moments notice, how good you are at throwing other's attacks back at them!

=D It's like a day at the beach... if all your friends wanted you dead and you had a laptop with you!

Mr. Flay: in the newbie games you can recall, and on a percentage basis, who is more likely to drop out of a game on day 1: a town-aligned player with a wagon, or a scum-aligned player with a wagon?

I find it odd that people base their suspicions or what not on what OTHER people may or may not do. I can see how meta can become useful, but I don't see how you can justify holding anyone to meta you saw other people do. And this is also where "scumtells" and what not come in. I figured with two of the more... um... well known... *cough* players here I can get a little insight into this. Nothing to do with the game really, but I feel it may better my understanding for future games.

I noticed Gunslinger and Sudo are both on the Korlash wagon as well. To me, this makes them suspicious. I know I was just on the wagon, but I've been deeply struggling with it, where as those 2 just plopped on and were done with it.

Gunslinger's vote was on me wayyyy before this wagon formed so you cannot say he "Plopped" on it and were done. Sure he has done a few things I thought were weird, and I called him out on it, and his defense is he is "new." And while I myself would like to get more out of him I find your reason's for voting him should have garnered a Sudo vote instead....

Personally I think Sudo has issues... Probably wants to undistance himself from me after that massclaim scandal. Which would indicate he is afraid I am scum, which means he would be most likely town. Hmmm.. Interesting...

As for you... I find it likely you are panicky that you had such a bad bandwagon as I did on yourself, and even after all this it is still there. I feel your trying to get any attention you can off yourself, including the attention you garner from your vote on me. But seeing as how I myself in a sense "Buckled under pressure" or some form of the phrase, I can see you as an afraid towny just as much as a worried mafia. So for now, eh... Go ahead and pressure Gunslinger.. like I said I would like to know how he reacts to people looking harder at him. I just feel for him you need to "Present a case" or else he will just say he is new blah blah blah end of story...

How is that for a worthless fluff post people? Huh huh? What? Yeah thats right, get out of my face... Go eat some candy or something.. have an icicle on me... lemon flavored...

I didn't know setael was female. I will keep this is mind for the future. Sorry.

I said the same thing about Adel the first game I was in with her... >< Gender gets confusing sometimes...

[Korlash]

And I guess, unvote:Korlash: seeing as he claimed roleblocker. But keep in mind that he didn't say he was town.

Did I have too? I mean... come on it is implied...

Besides my role is just "Roleblocker" It does not say town in it.. however it does say "Pro-Town" so... yeah... I suppose I am town, but I didn't feel it was necessary to actually say it... I mean does the cop have to say "I am a town cop!" ? Does the Doc have to say "I am a town Doc!" ? No? I didn't think so...

I'd like to see some additional analysis from Flay and Satael and Sudo_Nym and curiouskarmadog and Abstract Actuary and jerubbaal. soon.

And I'd like to see some actual analysis from you... what? Did I say that out loud? My bad... carry on...

dang you guys.. long posts... I will post back on those two in a second.. *grumbles*

[Korlash]

Korlash's defense of sudo felt off. Long-winded responses/defense. Due to his playstyle, he will likely be lynched before too long, even though he’s probably just a townie who likes to be the center of attention. Attacks Mexal for adding a vote to Anata wagon without giving a reason. Mexal's vote looked like an obvious pressure vote - odd that korlash wouldn't let it go as a pressure vote. Also odd that he focused on Mexal when Jerubbaal did the same thing with his anata vote. Sudo pipes in that he has no problem with korlash attacking mexal for his anata vote. This seems off, as though Sudo is just trying to be agreeable and picked something to agree with that really wasn't that town.

I already said why I didn't attack Jer, I will assume you haven't gotten to it yet. I don't feel like reexplaining it so I will leave that for now.

I believe I gave my feelings on pressure votes in the past, so again I don't feel like reevaluating that one.

As for not being that town, I feel I have always had the town's goal/survival/best interest whatever you want to call it at heart. And thus why I defend EVERYONE! The way I see it, if

I

can defend them.. then your attacks are pretty stupid.. come on... But if you can get past me then you probably have an ok case. I just hate to see anyone lynched for something even I coulda broke down.

It has it's flaws, but it is a playstyle I have come to accept...

but seems to be assuming korlash is town

In the same post you say:

Due to his playstyle, he will likely be lynched before too long, even though he’s probably just a townie who likes to be the center of attention.

Apparently you too are assuming I am town... Or is that not what you meant?

@Mexal and Jerubbaal:

What? You don't want to meta me? =D That doesn't put me in the center of attention so I am against it! Kidding...

@ Adel: Oh... I will break that.. I will break it so hard... and then reassemble it backwards! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Korlash]

um... unless one of us (i.e. other players) decodes it.. your pretty much just setting yourself up to say whatever you want later and claim you "said" it before...

or that is my opinion of it...

[Korlash]

Well she did say she was only up to page so and so or something...

Hey did anyone else notice:

Right now, I think I'm happy going back after good ole

GunslingerKB

That he didn't actually vote him? Even I missed it... weird... Could be a mistake... could be intentional! *gasp*

[Korlash]

Fine... Even though I hate listening to you... I suppose it's good advice to follow for a change...

@ jitsu: Realize I am not intentionally ignoring you here. I guess it can;t hurt to hear from

everyone

before I answer your question. However I don;t think my answer is really going to make a difference one way or another. ><

[Korlash]

Um... Sure I can encrypt it... lets see...
o npmf zuzmkmh ldjrb hehxnv ke)

There... A simple fool proof encryption... *Rolls eyes*

[Korlash]

Technically i did not refuse to encrypt my thing.. i did... It is right there.... in a level 1 encryption.. that my baby brother could figure out... I mean I already told you guys who I was blocking last night...

And believe my claim or not I don't care. I consider myself as worthless as a vanilla townie anyways. However I am not so inclined to lay down and die as I was yesterday now that we have already lost two townies...

[Korlash]

It may be because you are the other respected/experienced player in this game... Who knows... Personally I could care less about any one of you in particular "advising" me to do anything. But I see the merit in letting everyone else post their thoughts before I say anything.

[Korlash]

Yeah... I personally think that was some kind of "trap" Adel set up to see who would hammer him...

[Korlash]

Actually the mafia do not knwo if i am lying... To them I could easily be a vanilla towny pretending to be RB so I draw the NK. Also at this point I see no reason the doc wouldn't have protected me. (Depending on who it is)

And how do I seem angry? A little bored. A small bit tired, yes. And I think I am hungry... I could eat.. but I don;t fee like making a meal right now... Perhaps a snack... Oh but I haven't gone to the store in a while.. I wonder what I have in the fridge.. Oh I could make cookies.. hmmm... Or an apple... I think I have apples in there...

Also this is another reason I hate the Roleblocker role. It is so uncommon the player who gets it (In this case me) is screwed over cause he doesn't get the benefit of begin able to claim a role and get out of a lynch... Added to that the obvious town hurtiness I could cause... I more or less consider myself vanilla.

[Korlash]

Oh small note: I was in no way trying to get the doc to claim in that last post. after rereading it I felt it may have come off like that. So, doc don't claim.

Thanks... Sorry about that...

[Korlash]

Korlash, did you feel as though your life depended on you claiming at the time you subtly claimed?

Yes I did.

[Korlash]

No... One of you were not buying into that. The other "three" people voting me did. meaning I was at 4 votes. Gun, Adel, Miztef(He did he vote/unvote/revote thing) and Sudo.

I already explained why I was afraid I would be lynched twice. I feel i was justified in it.

[Korlash]

Speaking of which, I'm intrigued by CKD's observation about Korlash's "lurking in plain sight". I'm trying to sift out in my brain how we can test his claim....

Dude.. go meta me or something... This is how I play... Every game...

I find it is an awesome strategy. Firstly, if someone wants to build a case they have to wade through tons of fluff. (Good strategy for both town and scum)

Secondly, It also gives me that "idiot town" look that even you have mentioned. I get by with that claim almost every game. (Again, good for both town and scum)

By all means please question me. But don't think that what I am doing is such an obvious scumtell... Cause it really isn't...

Lets see... a few other things I wanted to comment on...

I thought this was interesting when I read it. Are you saying that your PM did not have the word “town” in it other than saying you were pro-town?

No it also had the "You win when the town fulfils it's win condition" thing (MY own words)

It did not say blatantly "YOU ARE TOWN" it said... In my own words >.> <.<

"YOU ARE A ROLEBLOCKER! YOU ARE PRO-TOWN"

>.>

That better pass the no quote pm thing... It is very similar to what it says, but I switched it up a bit.

seemed like it worked for you (because as you stated yourself, you felt like you needed to).. if you didnt feel like it the claim would help you, why claim at -3?

Roleblocker is not a believable role. And so for many players, claiming RB will not garner an Unvote, While claiming Doc will more or less pull the entire wagon off you.

I already said why I claimed at L-3. At least twice. If not three times. You seem to like to read up on me, go look it up.

And i didn't care so much for it helping me as much as letting you all know my role before I died... That way no one could say I was dumb when I was lynched and you all saw I was a power role. I would hate to have that on my record...

to me it is pretty simple: had the wagon on korlash been scum powered, it would've had two quantifiable attributes that were missing. unlike the miztef wagon.

I'm sorry... Did i miss the part where my wagon was powered by you and you are scum? Cause I think that more or less blows this statement out of the water...

(That was a joke.. lighten up people...)

I'm neutral on Korlash's motivations as yet, but I'm still leaning toward the 'stoopid townie' interpretation (no offense, you just remind me of that type of player).

Thank you. I try my best to please! *bows*

I think that is all... Maybe I missed something.. Oh well if I did I didn't care that much about it anyways apparently... (Joke again)

Tough crowd...

[Korlash]

Hey just cause I am bored doesn't mean I will roll over and die. I am too good a player to do something that selfish. Besides arguing with you may be just the little pick me up I need.

Lets see then...

please answer

What case could I pick apart? There were 4 votes on me for no reason... Hello? Duh please...

Note above for "defend self a little more"

As for pushing a case on someone else.. the only obvious person for me to go after was Adel.. and I pushed as hard as I could without seemingly going overboard...

Out of my whole post I wanted you to answer this the most, why did you not answer it? Please answer it now.

sorry I think that was in the post I skimmed over as it didn't really seem to be you saying anything.

No, at the time I did not even know there was a mafia RB. I had read about it in the wiki so long ago, but it never stuck in my mind. I have read it up and I am insulted you all thought I was a prostitute... geeze... jerks...

Any comments about this? I don’t want to know who you blocked, I want to know if you blocked..if you did, please explain this comment and why you chose to block.

I never said I chose to block... In fact I outright told you guys I would not block anyone. Who says I didn't keep my word?

this was a very direct question here that is not asking you to quote a PM. I asked you if the PM said the word “town” other than saying you are “pro-town”. You answered “no” then state, but then say it says “you win when the town fulfills it’s win condition” (your words)…now, does it use the word “town” or not in the PM?

*Sigh* does anyone else hate it when a player answers his own question, then asks it again?

Look goofball. Even the damn mafia Pms have the word "Town" in it. What the hell are you trying to prove with this? Every freaking Role PM will have the word town in it. I said my Pm did not outright say "YOU ARE TOWN" it said "YOU ARE PRO-Town" While there is no difference there, I felt I needed to be absolutely clear on things so no one mistook me.

Now if you have some point to this line of questioning please explain. And if you pull an Adel I swear I will give up on this game.

Also, why do you keep telling us how bored you are with the game, when you are obviously keeping active tabs on this game? Are you still willing to be the “sacrificial lamb”?

I'm bored because we have Adel in one corner not playing the game, two or three people who tend to just want days over with, A role that to me is as good as a vanilla role, and no one has given any real cases against me in forever. I get all my enjoyment from defending myself.

On a side note I appreciate you actively questioning me instead of being a jerk like Adel and voting me for unknown reasons...

Anyways, i so look forward to how you try and come back at me over this next. Good luck ;P

[Korlash]

.. what? What meta reasons?

You either have meta confused with another word or you are making up stuff.

Either way I am not surprised you voted me. Not sure if it makes you scum though... For some strange reason I am still leaning town with you... odd... Quick.. do something to piss me off

[Korlash]

I wont OMGUS that. I acknowledge there was something similar to this happening at the exact same time in another.. what is the word.. forum activity

But if you do plan on holding that against me I would like you to carefully check those dates again. If you want to hold me to it fine, but your case holds more weight on the other.. activity... as it happened AFTER the one on this... activity...

Hmmm... Pushing It I think... Isn't this the game we keep getting in trouble for doing this? ...

I have half a mind to wipe this post clean... But I don't think the mod can honestly kill me and leave you... so... Ehh I'll risk it...

Simple version. your mistaken.

[Korlash]

You were already voting me...

*sighs* misinformation is better then no information I suppose...

[Korlash]

yeah.. 9 minutes in the right direction. I felt it was odd the same subject coming up twice in a row...

Also on a side note, do you guys have a life? Or do you spend it all day "metaing me"? I just find it funny you found this.

I'll be honest with you I personally think this PROVES how naive I was about the Mafia RB... I don't see how you think it is the opposite... Unless we are not on the same page here.. (LITERALLY XD ha ha ha ha)

[Korlash]

Wait... Post 585... happened before post 644... You guys are still making no sense... First I think your talking about another ongoing game. Now your seeming like your talking about this game. Which is it? seriously.

Ohhh wait ok I think i get it...

So in 585 was when i first mentioned Mafia RB. Yeah yeah I get it. Then in 644 it came up again. Right I remember that, that was when I actually reread the wiki, hence the prostitute thing.

Finally someone is making sense...

Korlash, why did you say they were mistaken at first and then seem to know what they were talking about?

I thought they were talking about another game. If you go back you notice how CKD talks about being modkilled if he goes into more detail. And I don't see how quoting posts from this game can get him modkilled.

[Korlash]

"do I have a life" says the guy playing on online forum game. you know we have caught you so you have to result to insults...classy.

Insult? I just had evidence you had read through every single ongoing game I was in. Do you knwo how long that has taken ME to do? I couldn't even fathom how long it took you. Didn't mean for it to come off as insulting.

[Korlash]

Huh.. I was half expecting to come home today and find meat L-1 or even lynched... I guess that is cause Sudo and Gun haven't posted in huh XD

Seriously though. Believe my playstyle to be bad or good I could care less. It's how I play. I can't really help it.

Also @ jitsu, CKD, whoever: Jsut cause I may have heard of a mafia RB or mentioned the name does not automatically mean I KNEW what it was.

However. Enough of the lying game I suppose. The jig is up. You caught me. I am, in fact, an expert at almost everything mafia related. (Except the playing XD)

I probably spent a good couple hours reading up that wiki over a year ago. Been playing it casually on other sites since then. suddenly figured I should play it here too a couple months ago. First time I ever had to admit that...

So yeah... I still stick with my statement I am worthless this game anyways. At least when I am lynched I get to prove Adel wrong on two counts and rub it in her statistics forever... Mass pm here I come!

So... Because I do not like to see my name alone on vote counts I will

Vote: Satael

[b/]

Mostly cause you never thanked me for helping anata out yesterday! ;_;

[Korlash]

Man I was sitting out there just arguing with Flay's last post in my head.. I just can't let anything slide...

So which is it, do we have no life for meta-ing you, or should we meta you more often?

There is a difference between looking at a few of my ended games and seeing how I post, and reading up on my active ongoing games. Mainly because there are like 3 times as many on going games as ended ones. If what Jitsu says is true and you don't have to read a lot to find whatever they are talking about then I was mistaken. Normally i would say sorry, but for some strange reason in this game I just cannot find myself able to be sorry with any of you... I mean first the Anata bandwagon, then Queen Adel gets here, and now we are arguing about whether or not I am as dumb as I appear to be... Man you guys are trying to go for the crappiest lynches aren't you?

Strategies that make you harder to read are not necessarily pro-town, because it means we either have to waste a Cop investigation on you every game, or lynch you to discover the truth.

Can you explain to me how you waste a cop investigation? I mean I think an innocent is just as good as a guilty any day. Plus if I ever am mafia BAM! Instant gratification. So in theory I fail to see how I am anti town. I am merely anti-Scumme.

Better if you can show ways in which you are helpful town and avoid either of those scenarios.

Naw... It's much more fun my way!

but more importantly I'm becoming convinced that Korlash is not an asset to the town, and may indeed be a hindrance.

That seems to be the jist of it every game I am in... Not on purpose you see, it's just my nature...

I'd still prefer to string up Gunslinger today, but the will is not there from other people apparently (which is disturbing to me).

Why? other then being a noob and not posting what has he done other then suspect me for no reason? Seriously...

[Korlash]

Oops...

Vote: Satael

My bad ><

[Korlash]

Oh who called it? seriously... Man I am good...

[Korlash]

Wow... Try saying that in a month... "I'll be back later. I'm gunna get my bird on!"

People will think your crazy >.>

[Korlash]

... Another fakeclaim down the toilet... ;_;

[Korlash]

X.x

Good news... my eyes did not bleed... bad news... I think they fell out somewhere... hmmm... uh oh I think my cat got a hold of them...

Good game though...

[Korlash]

Pretty much every time I draw the nk as a vanilla townie (when there are extant powerroles) I consider it to be a personal win.

Well i consider anytime I get to NK you to be a personal win for me! XD

Hey... that means we can both be winners... (And losers) at the same time! lolz...

Seriously though... Hope we can be friends after all this... >.> Hey friend.. can I borrow 5 bucks?