Gistou (Over!)

[Almost50]

Almost please roleclaim so I can tell you how to use your role.

Oh, I will.. just as soon as you graduate the Mafia Kindergarten 101 class!

Also /confirm

[Almost50]

luna is not jeanne if your accusing her to be her.

just saying cuase I felt you guys thinking that.

if not ignore me

~Ice

So much for your promise to yourself!

[Almost50]

At this rate, I don't think I'll have enough trivia.

Re-runs are always welcome

So you guys decided to beat the record of the # of posts in pregame? The funny thing is Dunn isn't even in this game!

Catching up is taking quite sometime even though I have obviously mostly skimmed up to this point. Only getting the gist of it all.

What I did notice thus far is:

1- Expedience is disliked by many for some reason that I have yet to research.
2- Cane + Able are being a nag.
3- BBMolla made some weird claim that I'm not buying.
4- Luna is probably on my side (not completely sure though)
5- Titus is probably town too.
6- I had foreseen trouble coming my way from the Stormblade trio before the pre-game phase, but I get the feeling we could be friends (I'd rather have confirmation on this from ABR though, bc I'm having trouble trusting Nahdia)
7- Other people I won't trust until I see evidence they're "on the good side" include dram (you fooled me once) & SirCakez (we should always start by assuming we're on opposing factions until proven otherwise )
8- Surprisingly enough I do NOT have a clear read on the FA+FB slot (Come on guys! Couldn't you have picked a longer username so that one enjoys typing an essay whenever addressing you??)
9- Finally, KC claims to be able to read me, so I'll let her decide on whether we should be friends of foes here.

[Almost50]

MathBlade and Titus is town engaging town.

~Bee

Be careful what you say, I might just decide to take you on it.

Leaning town on Salt Squad & Fire & Ice for now (but my reads are volatile at this stage and one mere phrase can flip the read 180 degrees. We'll see.)

[Almost50]

This is kind-of ridiculous. You know what hour it is, right?!?

Oh, yeah!

[Almost50]

Actually, when I look back at Mathblade's earlier post, umm what's up with "grouping" people so early anyway?

Not liking this. We need to figure out who's who and whom they're aligned with. It's not like this is a simple "everyone plays for their own" kind of game.

Which brings me to this simple announcement:

- To ALL Humans (regardless of your origin, tribe and what not): Do NOT drop by (i.e. do not try to visit me).

Non-Humans are welcome to try though
here, kitty kitty kitty kitty

[Almost50]

Sorry, this white background is really unpleasant so I try to avoid using this account for reading, but I forget to swap back to post.

user Control Panel >> Board preferences >> My board style (change to "mafBlack" if you prefer a darker background, or just pick one and see if you like it)

Also,

@EVERYBODY

: could you please stick to posting with your hydra accounts? The game already has 28 slots (that's 27 slots for me to try and get a read on). I don't need an additional 22 accounts posting that I need to go back and check which hydra they belong to. Unless you're registered to game with your personal account (like me for instance) I don't really care who is posting (although I do notice the signatures if you choose to sign). My read is based on the collective content of the slot posts regardless of which individual posted what part of it.

Thank you.

[Almost50]

There's also at least 1 non human race (mine) that needs to elminate all threats to the human treaty, but i dont know who shares this win condition.

I think BBMolla claimed something similar, which is bad play from both of you bc (if I recall correct) you win when all threats to humanity are eliminated AND someone sharing you win-con is still alive. (Again, correct me if this part was my mind playing tricks on me).

[Almost50]

hi almost

what do you think about WT scumread on Nahdia?

~Ice

I have no read on WT (I'm assuming it's bc LQ is doing all the work so far), but I already am leaning town on Nahdia (but as I said, I can't fully trust her so I need ABR to talk to me before I bank on it. EP is unfortunately a mystery to me, as I genuinely did read him as scum in SS. I wasn't BS'ing there!)

[Almost50]

Cool! I'm all caught up as of NOW. I -of course- expect to be some 30 pages behind when I check in next time!

Reads (roughly so):

1.Heartless - - - - - (I'll need to reread their ISO)
2.KuroiXHF - - - - - (I'll be damned if I could recall he was playing here w/o checking the player list)
3.Klingoncelt - - - - (um??)
4.Titus - - - - - - - - (leaning town, but I don't remember why!)
5.dramonic - - - - - (Call me paranoid, but I'll keep him at null)
6.Salt Squad - - - - (beeboy is townish)
7.Almost50 - - - - - (I think he needs to go get some sleep)
8.Nosferatu - - - - - (He posted a few times, but nothing stuck into my memory)
9.Mathblade - - - - (The only think I learnt is they're Titus sibling!)
10.Wayward Thinker (I'm "trying" to give them the benefit of doubt, telling myself scum could be pushing the slot for hinting they can investigate location. Still, I'm not comfortable with LQ's play thus far and I have my doubts. Null for now)
11.Stormblade - - - (Ah yes. The fantastic 3. Nahdia's giving me town vibes, and I hope I'm right this time)
12.davesaz - - - - - (some of the good and some of the bad. He does have content but I'm undecided on his alignment)
13.copper223 - - - - (The name doesn't ring a bell. I know I've seen a post or two from him but...)
14.Cane + Able - - - (This slot is up to something. Whether it's good or not is yet to be decided. I'm watching you two.)
15.Tim - - - - - - - - (Insert some comment please)
16.No Retreat - - - - (One thing is for sure. The avatar is MUCH better than the annoying one Nero has on his own account.)
17.A Song of Ice and Fire (Frozen is starting to town up, but I also need Fire to talk more so I can read the slot with more confidence.)
18.RAM - - - - - - - - (So far Cerb has not been as active as I've seen him be in SS)
19.Lady Lambdadelta - (OmegaPiOmikron.. what's up?)
20.rb - - - - - - - - - (I want to say a town lean but something inside me says not to be hasty).
21.Cephrir - - - - - - (Is that Dutch?)
22.Luna Fox - - - - - (I could've put her at the top of my town reads had it not been for that claim. Still feeling more comfortable considering her friendly).
23.Expedience - - - - (I'm trying not scum read you bc everybody else seems to, but you're reads and votes are making it a bit difficult for me to town read you at any level at all.)
24.BBMolla - - - - - - (Honestly I wasn't buying your pre-game claim until Luna claimed, so maybe that's the one positive side of her claim.)
25.TheWayItEnds - - (This one's going to have to wait)
26.Skybird - - - - - - (Peregrine? Is that you?)
27.Toogeloo - - - - - (I remember the name, but I didn't see the face.)
28.Franky - - - - - - (Or maybe THIS is Peregrine??)

Disclaimer: All reads subject to change upon a reread or new content. the two I'm most comfortable with are the two non-human claims, bc the claims support eachother (and somewhat make sense to me)

[Almost50]

Btw, I don't do read lists that often, so be grateful and do not criticize the lack of scum reads. It's still too early for me to decide I want someone dead on D1, so I'm trying to decide whom I do NOT want lynched instead.

[Almost50]

K almost can be scum.

~Ice

Bad read, but i know where it comes from

[Almost50]

I mean, you yourself told me to work on it, so I'm following your advice.

[Almost50]

I have no read on WT (I'm assuming it's bc LQ is doing all the work so far), but I already am leaning town on Nahdia (but as I said, I can't fully trust her so I need ABR to talk to me before I bank on it. EP is unfortunately a mystery to me, as I genuinely did read him as scum in SS. I wasn't BS'ing there!)

This is sketchy. You said a few posts up you do a read based on the collective slot.
But then you have no read on WT because you think one

slot

head

is doing the work.

Which is it Almost50?

FoS Almost50

I think you got it backwards. It's not bc "one head" is doing the work I even edited it for you)
It's bc LQ precisely is doing it. I don't think I have any finished games with him so I have no idea if this is his town game or his scum game. So far he hasn't said or done anything to make sniff the air and say: "Oh! I smell a rat!" but nothing he's said or done makes me think he can't be scum either, hence the null read on the slot.

[Almost50]

i am now very much in favor of turning a50 into a charred corpse, i'll see what the bird thinks of it

thats all for me now. catch you losers later.

All this bc you're anti-humans and you can't touch me at night? That's the easiest ans fastest scum claim I have ever seen on this sight.

VOTE: Heartless

Scum claimed already, but for those who missed it:

I openly asked Humans not to visit/target me at night. I said non-human could "try" though. Humans naturally would appreciate the warning (even if they get suspicious about it), and non-human aligned with humans will want to wait to see what happens with it.

Now only anti-humans would start to worry bc -to them- I explicitly announced myself as and enemy figure that they're not going to kill at night, so they have to start finding some reason to make a push on me that -even if it doesn't work on D1- would still be there for them to build on later on.

Now I need someone who understands my talk and logic to rephrase it to the public, if they please, so that everybody will know why I'm heavily scum reading Heartless already.

[Almost50]

luna+a50 best scumbuds 4 ever

Let's lock horns and headbutt eachother then.



You win >> I flip town/human >> you go next >> Town wins

I win >> you flip scum/non-human >> Town still wins

Come on, Antihero .. come on Anti-H

[Almost50]

Luna + Wayward + A50 scum team op.

~Bee

And I was relying on YOU (beeboy) to take care of Heat's paranoia for me.

Here's the deal:

Luna is aligned with humans (she and BB claimed the same win con, and the win con itself states that another player of the same win con must be alive). The claim sounds genuine, but there's always a margin for error/deceit.

I am ALL HUMAN and I have been reading people based on them being likely human or aligned with the human race.

I can't even see how Wayward's name got squeezed between the two of us (me and Luna), and since I'm still null reading that slot I'm not going to comment on it much.

Now get it through your thick skull because I'M NOT CLAIMING MY FULL ROLE not even AFTER I get hammered (if i do). If you ARE human, look elsewhere and let me do my thing here.

Now go vote Heartless bc I promise you he is anti-humans. If you don't have faith in my early reads please go check SOCCER SPIRITS (even though we were both scum on the same faction) or Bloodborne (the game Varsoon just finished modding). In the former I was adamant DS was Mafia and he was. The latter I was pushing on Nahdia and got ignored and she ended up sweeping the game for scum single handed. (and there are players here who witnessed at least one of these two game, including yourself, so get your head in place and VOTE CAUGHT SCUM).

[Almost50]

I also seem to notice Luna has joined the enemy camp! If your claim is accurate you're currently playing AGAINST your win con. *Firm Nod*

I'm still on page 45 though. I saw that vote as I submitted the previous post.

[Almost50]

Why did you feel the need to write that list when assuming town you are clearly still need to think about your reads?

Two reasons:

1- Because Frozen told me I needed to work more on my town game bc it was weaker than my scum game (she was modding one of my most recent scum games), so I'm trying to be more engaged and to show where my head as at all times, bc if I don't do it I tend to forget the <reasons> behind my reads and end up just calling someone town/scum bc "I don't know".

2- I wanted to be noticed and probably even ISO'd by the majority at some point on this day so as to avoid mishaps. If I stayed in the shadows I was not likely to grab your attention (or anybody else's) until the next day phase, which could've dealt harm to town in one way or another. 'nough said.

[Almost50]

I don't have the heart to get invested again after what happened in Varsoon's game.

Here's a recent example of a game where I didn't get invested as town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66574

That was probably after Saga too.

But I literally need you here, at least until I've confirmed the slot alignment, but maybe even beyond that point.

[Almost50]

@Cakez:

Spoiler:

off the top of my head:

Nosferatu is still a light scum read.

Thinking Mathblade could be Scum as well.

Kinda like Titus as Town with their later content.

There was a post by Copper the pinged me, but forgot what it was.

Don't know about your slot yet.

Heartless is prolly Town, even though I don't like the "meh" vote they placed on us.

Don't know about C+A.

Still like No Result or whatever their name is for Town.

Don't like Salt Squads push on me.

The rest I'm just not sure of at all.

At this rate, I don't think I'll have enough trivia.

Re-runs are always welcome

So you guys decided to beat the record of the # of posts in pregame? The funny thing is Dunn isn't even in this game!

Catching up is taking quite sometime even though I have obviously mostly skimmed up to this point. Only getting the gist of it all.

What I did notice thus far is:

1- Expedience is disliked by many for some reason that I have yet to research.
2- Cane + Able are being a nag.
3- BBMolla made some weird claim that I'm not buying.
4- Luna is probably on my side (not completely sure though)
5- Titus is probably town too.
6- I had foreseen trouble coming my way from the Stormblade trio before the pre-game phase, but I get the feeling we could be friends (I'd rather have confirmation on this from ABR though, bc I'm having trouble trusting Nahdia)
7- Other people I won't trust until I see evidence they're "on the good side" include dram (you fooled me once) & SirCakez (we should always start by assuming we're on opposing factions until proven otherwise )
8- Surprisingly enough I do NOT have a clear read on the FA+FB slot (Come on guys! Couldn't you have picked a longer username so that one enjoys typing an essay whenever addressing you??)
9- Finally, KC claims to be able to read me, so I'll let her decide on whether we should be friends of foes here.

You said you were iffy on them which I took to be a nullscum read, then you changed to a town read relatively quickly after that

-sc

Who was that directed at?

[Almost50]

NVM

[Almost50]

Almost's list of comments was just commentary and not analysis, then his readslist was fence sitting city
WT's readslist was OMGUSy and not reasoned out at all

Why do you ignore that I mentioned it was too early for me to want someone roped? Well, guess what.. I did find one to rope and I'm voting them already. With that lynch and all the expected night action I should be able to get better reads on D2. On d1 all I care about is finding 1 main suspect and pursuing their case (which is already a much better option thatn taking shots in the dark and ending up lynching whomever bc we're out of time).

[Almost50]

What am I missing? WHY would a non-town-aligned PGO claim?? His faction should already be aware of his ability and that is all that matters to them! Why warn "all humans"?

Expected response: It's a fake claim to deter investigative town roles away.

response to response: So the other non-human faction(s) all don't have PRs?? Because he did specify HUMANS not to target him.

Final conclusion: He's scum "regardless". << remember this Nahdia? Cerb? beeboy (Oh, probably not you)? Who else was there though? KC, oh, DRAM (if you were paying attention to the posts in your game). I wouldn't expect Heat to remember anything, and Cakez joined much later.. who else? Yeah Nos, EP (you MUST recall this), Frozen, TWIE & Molla. Oh, Fire too.. you were there.. kind of!

I think I know why Peregrine likes to lurk in all his games regardless though. I'm slowly coming to that feeling where I want to read and not respond, or just fly under the radar for most of the game and only start playing when it's close to LyLo.

More votes on me, please. Let's get it over and done with.

[Almost50]

You auto scum reading me since SS. And I don't expect you to remember ANYTHING in SS either cuz you were hardly following the game.

And please somebody shoot Luna regardless of her alignment. Just go read my entire post #1442 (3 posts above) and then her response in #1443 to see how hard it's getting for me to get a simple point across.

[Almost50]

Also, Luna + BB + Toog. Humans need to flip one of these before the end of the game to ensure their win con indeed allows them to win with us.

[Almost50]

OK.. for those of you who didn't like my earlier read list, here's an updated one for you all to enjoy:

DISCLAIMER: The following read list is ONLY intended for those who are scum reading me for the previous one. If you're not one of those you need not bother.

ENJOY!

Spoiler:

1.Heartless - - - - - SCUM: They're going after town players.
2.KuroiXHF - - - - - Town Lean: He's legit looking for non-Humans.
3.Klingoncelt - - - - Null: Not enough to judge by.
4.Titus - - - - - - - - Town Lean: I feel like she's genuinely scum hunting and not being opportunistic.
5.dramonic - - - - - Null-Town: Good vibes thus far and good logic too, but I can't get over my own paranoia of him.
6.Salt Squad - - - - Null: Yes, I know. I retract the slight town read on beeboy, never successfully read SC, and Heat is still not opening up.
7.Almost50 - - - - - Town: I believe he should chill, but he is currently at 240/160 blood pressure of higher.
8.Nosferatu - - - - - Town Lean: (Why not? It's not like I'm going to refer to THIS read list in the future anyway!)
9.Mathblade - - - - Scum: (You know, if Titus is good then her sibling must be evil! It's called siblings rivalry)
10.Wayward Thinker Null-Town: (Popular demand has it that I must have a read here so there's one.)
11.Stormblade - - - Scum Lean: I don't trust Nahdia after what she did to me/us in Bloodborne. (I had to invent a reason, even if it had nothing to do with anything on the whole planet.)
12.davesaz - - - - - Town Lean: (At least he's posting and look slike he's doing the effort others can't afford to.)
13.copper223 - - - - Scum: (Heartless linked with him on 1096)
14.Cane + Able - - - Town Lean: (Their posts make better sense than many others.)
15.Tim - - - - - - - - Scum Lean: (Sorry mate. I needed some more scum reads please the people.)
16.No Retreat - - - - Undecided: (Nero always tunnels me. I have 2 finished games with him when he was town twice and I was town once and 3p aligned with town once. Either he finally realized my play style just isn't ideal (which makes him town) or he is actually up to no good (in which case he is scum))
17.A Song of Ice and Fire-Town: (I don't feel like explaining my read on this slot. I just feel like I can read each of them separately to a higher precision than the average rate of success. MY average that is.)
18.RAM - - - - - - - - Town Lean: (Why not? People are not liking me having a null read on many slots, so why not suck up on this one?)
19.Lady Lambdadelta - Scum Lean: (Not making a solid presence, besides I need to impress people with some scum reads that are not founded at all just to appease them.)
20.rb - - - - - - - - - Town Lean: (Gut feeling.)
21.Cephrir - - - - - - SCUM: (Actually 2nd top scum read after Heartless.)
22.Luna Fox - - - - - Scum Lean: (Too volatile and undecided on her thought process. Likely to bend for the wing to pass her by.)
23.Expedience - - - - Town Lean: (Like dram said; he can't be faking all those bad reads.)
24.BBMolla - - - - - - Scum Lean: (How can he be town when he shares scum!Luna's win-con?)
25.TheWayItEnds - - Town Lean: (I already listed enough scum reads on other so this slot can be town on PoE.)
26.Skybird - - - - - - Null: (Nothing yet to read from this slot.)
27.Toogeloo - - - - - Scum Lean: (Hearsay! Someone said something about you being the same as Luna/BB and although I didn't notice it myself I'm just tying you up to them to get a complete picture and get people to clap their hands congratulating me on a wonderfully composed read list.)
28.Franky - - - - - - Null (But I'm willing to consider if so you wish. I aim to please.)

So THERE! A complete read list that's not worth the time for you to read, not to mention that time it took me to compose. The funny thing is it took me even longer to put this shit together because I actually had to use my imagination, not speak up my mind.

P.S. If you have no business reading this but still did, please IGNORE this. Thank you.

[Almost50]

@Luna:

there should be exactly three of you. No more. If we are 28 players and we're guaranteed to have started the game with humans @ +50% then a max on non-humans of 12. That is divided by 4 (4 non-human factions) so 3 each. Cult may differ (usually starts with the recruiter as the only player aligned with it) but then the 2 missing should be added to OTHER scum teams not yours, bc you're already aligned with the town. The reason you're 3 and not 2 is bc your win con specifies someone with the same win con should be alive, so it would be cruel to hand you what would be basically a 2-way lover-survivour role, which would be even less likely to survive than a stand-alone survivour.

[Almost50]

And I don't expect you to remember ANYTHING in SS either cuz you were hardly following the game.

you know what? fuck off

That's sweet. Why not use some swearing too??

[Almost50]

I don't get it

This

[Almost50]

I am a Human in a Faction that wins when all threats to it are eliminated. My faction name starts with the letter "I" so if that's different than you, we can solve that if necessary.

OK, so you're on the town pile on both the real and the fake lists? Great!

OK.. let's put Franky on the scum list instead (the fake one). I aim to please, and don't want someone to jump at me saying that I specified 12 non-humans and have only 11 players listed as scum. That'd be a shame, wouldn't it? I mean, 48 hours into the game and I don't have a solid full list of reads????

[Almost50]

i would engage you with questions like "if you had reads why did you give us a pile of shit for a readlist and where did you conjure these from" and "have you seriously never ever seen a town aligned player be incorrect before" but i suspect that anything of the sort would get a garbled nonsense answer

And I wouldn't have dignified such line of questioning with a response, tbh. It is apparent you either didn't read the whole thing, you are being obtuse, or you're deliberately playing dumb. Now I wish I was in a hydra with KTS and let them respond!

[Almost50]

OH BOY! I'm "only" 29 pages behind!! I guess I can forget about next month's trip to <insert some silly place here>

Operation "catching up" is a go!

P-edit: Oh my! Obviously they've just got to 30. Hey everybody: It's bedtime. All of you!

[Almost50]

If you read the collective slot over any of the specific heads posting then you should be able to still analyze the slot. To come back a few posts later and say you can't analyze that slot when you are contradicting yourself is scummy as fuck.

Fine. Lynch me!

[Almost50]

he is more strong and analytical as scum - which is true.

I felt he is faking analyzing in this game which makes me conflicted about him.

Would I be "faking analyzing" as scum when I'm actually already "strong and analytical" as scum though??

I mean, either you think I'm faking it = I'm town trying to work on my deficiency, OR I'm actually sincere in which case you are free to suspect me. You can't have your cake and eat it too though.

[Almost50]

You took the words out of my mouth that ABR post was horrible.
Nahdia still town posted like crazy tho so I still think the slot is town >_>

~Bee

You weren't in Bloodborne though, so let SirCakez handle Nahdia. Trust me (ask him)

[Almost50]

2.KuroiXHF - - - - - Town Lean: He's legit looking for non-Humans.

whats the meaning of this?

show me with quotes please

~Ice

Come on, Frozen! ISO him. Or don't. I mean I explicitly said I won't be referring to THAT list in the future, so it was a made up reason for all you know. They call it a TROLL.

[Almost50]

I guess ill think it over with my pillow, i can barely keep my eyes open right now.

And you REALLY had to say that right at that point?? Well, I've been up 17 hours myself, and 15 of those I've been facing my monitor!! I'll try to push myself to the limit though.

[Almost50]

Almost I know its your thing to post while catching up but could you really NOT do that in this game?

KTHX

But, that would mean I don't post AT ALL. I can hardly remember what has been said or who said it 2 pages ago (blame it on premature aging )

But I'll try to tone it down to the limit for your sake. I know how annoying it is to have to wade through all these posts and then you probably get your line of thoughts interrupted by a response to something that seems ages ago to you.

[Almost50]

Stopping at the top of page 70. I'll be resuming my catch up in 8-10 hours. Right now I feel like I'm trying to read something in Chinese or Hindi, and I don't even recognize the alphabets of either.

[Almost50]

I don't exactly care for Kuroi but WT's post voting him is both hypocritical and in general just feels like latching on to an easy target by throwing the kitchen sink at him (not that there's much to throw since Kuroi had basically 0 content)

Oh, okay. AD I see why you hi me.

Apparently I missed a lot of people already picking up on this. Happy about this. But this is pretty much how I feel ^

Because there's no point in me arguing the same point over and over again and them responding the same way. It's like hitting a brick wall with nails trying to punch a hole in it.

The "said contradiction" is not a contradiction at all. Like; here's a run down of all hydras in this game (minus the one that has been dissolved):

Spoiler:

Antihero + TellTaleHeart:

One finished game with Anti, no previous experience with Tell. It doesn't matter to me which of them is posting because I have no scum/town tells of either. It's what they say and how they say it regardless.

SirCakez + beeboy + Heat:

One finished game with Heat, several with each of SC & beeboy. Will have to pay attention to what they say no matter which of them is posting to get a read, as there are no special traits known to ME about their scum/town play. Either of them, actually, but I feel like I can -maybe- read beeboy more on tone.

ABR + EP + Nahdia:

2 finished games with Nahdia (one of each alignment) and I don't see a difference in her play as either alignment. 1 finished game with EP where I was scum and thought he was on the other scum team, and one finished with ABR where we were on eachother's throats on D1 before we became best friends and totally trusted eachother. (I know you know the details here, but I'm writing for everyone else as well).

Iecerint + ActionDan:

Never played with either, so I have no meta to judge by.

Nero Cain + Yume:

2 or 3 finished games with Nero, probably one with Yume (and I don't even remember which one). However, me and Nero are always head-butting even if we were both town (never seen his scum game, and neither did he see mine although he might argue differently).

Frozen + Fire:

Many finished game with each, and I even have a history with Frozen that extends before I joined MS, so I have no problem getting a read on either of them (sometimes I'm off, but then things work themselves out later on). Doesn't matter who's posting.

Bins + Drixx + Cerberus v666:

I don't even recognize the name of Bins, never played with Drixx, and have 2 finished games with Cerb in which he was town and died relatively early. Again I will have to rely on what's being said rather than who said it.

Now the ONLY exception to the general rule would be regarding the

LQ + Suzune

hydra, bc I have no finished games with LQ but I did see Suzune as both alignments and believe her to be relatively easier for me to read than LQ. That's and EXCEPTION, not a CONTRADICTION.

[Almost50]

@Titus:I noticed something in Bins posting that I pointed out to her in slack but I assume she hasn't read it yet. When she quoted your post calling WTs case on Kuroi great, I believe she thought you were being sarcastic, and mocking it...thus she believed you should be listened to because you were agreeing with her.

Pretty sure that's the thing causing the confusion in our slots recent posting.
About the whole "insisting on one own pet wagon at this stage" thing. This stage? We're like 72h in or something. Just because the thread has been bloated by 5 individuals does not chance the fact that there it's early in D1 still, and we shouldn't be bringing out the vanity wagons are anti town bullshit quite yet.

S it was Bins I've just responded to? Good thing I explained more then, bc I automatically assumed I was responding to you.

[Almost50]

Believe me. I get you're frustrated.

It's even more than frustrated.
As he already claimed, we're on the neighborhood which means that
A) He's scum
or
B) He's the same race as me.

And i shouldnt need to get into why he being B and getting lynched scares the heck outta me.

Wait, who claimed that?

copper did

Hold on! So, you + Stormblade + Copper + BBmolla are all in the PT? Are there any more member of that PT?

P.S. I don't want their names. I just want the total number in there. They can choose whether or not to announce themselves.

[Almost50]

Where did you get BBmolla from?

In his post #7 he was first to claim non-human aligned with humans. I'm asking Luna to confirm he is in that PT alongside the claimed 3 members, as well as tell us if there any other members w/o outing who they are.

[Almost50]

I have never lurked as Scum - or Town or 3rd Party, and I sure as fuck would never lie about V/LA.

What's your definition of lurking?? Cuz I would call your play in Soccer Spirits "mostly lurking".

[Almost50]

Uh. Okay, this might just be me being dumb again, but what the hell are you talking about? Like what is this in response to? The quoted post? I don't see how this has anything to do with what I was saying? But then you said something later that makes me assume you aren't trying to tell me this... so uh, why?

Or were you responding to someone else and just using my post as reference on how you thought Cerb said that?

Just a lil' confused.

Actually I was responding to your 2296, so I must've quoted the wrong post. Sorry.

As for "not telling you.." I was actually under the impression it might be Cerb I'm responding to, and he was playing with me in said 2 games, so I explained I was also telling everyone else, including you.

[Almost50]

maybe a cult faction.

this is also a confirmed cult game

pls reread like...EVERYTHING

Mate, I think you really need to reread the opening 4-5 posts on page 1. I'll quote some excerpts for you:

"

This is a multi-factional game.

"

"

there is

at least one

town faction.

"

"

Each faction, if possessing a non-human race,

has a one-shot ability to recruit a human to their faction." << This hints more than one faction of non-humans. 2 or 3 maybe.

So, the game multi-ball including one cult faction.

[Almost50]

Math is right about the 5 factions, that is obviously the case and RB gets scum points for trying to cast doubt on it.

STOP CONFUSING ME. I'm already finding it extra-hard to catch up as it is, so I don't need to roll back to check who said it. It was NO RETREAT not RB. <insert head banging against wall icon here>

[Almost50]

Almost 20% of the players in this game have role-claimed.

On Day 1.

Dram please save me.

I did not claim. I just gave you the info you needed to know. felt like the right play for me.

If I was playing with smaller group, and one that I'm familiar with I'd probably have kept quite, tried to town it up and hoped scum would pick me for the NK. However, with so many names I've never played with before and in a game this big I felt like there must be a ton of investigatives who don't even know how I play, thus might be inclined to check me out to be sure. I could've blown one or two of them if I kept it to myself. I don't think my play would draw a NK my way on N1 anyway, so I felt claiming was the better option.

Like PGO has only 2 options: Claim early to save the PRs or be real smart and post hot read lists as to become a major NK target. Well, I'm shitty at making cases anyway (even if I did have a good read I simply cannot justify it in the proper manner), so I know I would not be the NK pick over a couple of dozen others in this game, and that's why I had to out my ability.

I have no idea why others -like Toog.. erm ESPECIALLY Toog- claimed, and much less why "it" full claimed. (I that your pronoun goes with your avatar, btw). But hey.. Toog's no fool and I'm sure he had something on his mind when he did (erm.. IT did.. I don't want people getting upset over such a trivial thing as me using the wrong pronoun. I have enough players after my neck already!)

[Almost50]

Expedience - 2 (Stormblade, Klingoncelt)
Heartless - 2 (Almost50, copper223)
Luna Fox - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)
RAM - 1 (Expedience)
A Song of Ice and Fire - 1 (KuroiXHF)
Titus - 1 (Mathblade)

Not Voting - 3 (Franky, Wake88, TheWayItEnds)

all these people are pretty much (or literally) not voting

I have a null read on WT & a Town read on Kuroi, so I'm not likely to vote either of them.

[Almost50]

OK, let me try a new approach that I have never actually tried before ever!!

@Luna:

1- Why is Heartless town to you?
2- Why is Kuroi scum?
(In 3-4 sentences of your own composition, please)

@Salt Squad:

1- Why is Nosferatu town to you?
2- Why is WT scum?
(In 3-4 sentences of your own composition, please)

@No Retreat:

1- Why is dramonic town to you?
2- Why is Klingoncelt scum?
(In 3-4 sentences of your own composition, please)

[Almost50]

Would it help if I listed everyone that pinged my scumdar?
A Song of Ice and Fire
BBMolla
Dramonic
Expedience
Kuroi
No Retreat
Titus
Wayward Thinker

Great! Why is dramonic scummy to you? What's your read on me? (3-4 sentences on each, please)

[Almost50]

{Heartless, Math, Luna, Expedience, Molla}
{Titus, dram, Salt, Tim, ASOIAF, RAM, LLD, rb, Toog}
{Almost, Storm, copper, No Retreat, TWIE, DGB}
{KC, Nosferatu, WT, dave, Wake, Franky}
{Kuroi}

Expedience & Wake please. Same as above, por favor.

[Almost50]

I'm asking Luna to confirm he is in that PT alongside the claimed 3 members,

Why would i confirm something like that whether true or false?

as well as tell us if there any other members w/o outing who they are.

Why are you interested in this information?

1- Because he already claimed something similar to you, duh! If he's not in your PT he's highly suspicious. Do you think we have TWO non-human groups who are both aligned with town?

2- Same reason, but in reverse. If there are only 4 of you then you only have 1 scum in the PT. If you have like 6 you may have 2 or even 3 (of different factions though). It would make it easier for me to pick the odd one out if there were only 4 of you than it would be to pick the 2/3 out of 6/7/8 (although I feel like I'm stretching it with 8 in one PT I think there should be 4-6 in there).

[Almost50]

Actually, I am going to go talk to Frozen and we may replace out.

Like, I want to play games, and I like activity, but this is too much for me.
If I wasn't in any other games, I could easily keep up and be proactive, but this is just angering me to see this much in all honestly.

~Firebringer


I think frozen has been generally upset with this, so i don't know.

Do you think someone who replaces in now would be more likely to help than 2 who have been there since pre-game?? I personally don't think so.

[Almost50]

Wayward Thinker - 9 (dramonic, Tim, rb, Salt Squad, davesaz, Heartless, Nosferatu, BBMolla, Cephrir)
KuroiXHF - 6 (DrippingGoofball, Luna Fox, Titus, A Song of Ice and Fire, No Retreat, Expedience)

WT, RAM, Storm, Celt, A50, copper, LLD, Kuroi, Math and toog pick one of WT or Kuroi

I'm not about to. Kuroi is totally out of my D1 lynch pool. I will only vote WT if I was the hammer vote (only to save us some time), but I already said I don't have a read there.

[Almost50]

I have a null read on WT & a Town read on Kuroi, so I'm not likely to vote either of them.

why?

~Ice

WT: I'm unable to decipher their talk so far, and -being in a large- I've decided to shelf the hard reads for later when I do have some links and leads.

Kuroi: Mostly a tonal thing. I do sincerely think he IS doing the work, and although we might not agree on several reads I get the feeling that he does believe in his reasoning (i.e. Not just bullshitting to stick dirt on someone). For instance, his reasoning for scum reading you is too silly for scum to be trying to push. I feel it comes from some a town aligned player who believes they've got this "ping" inside their head against your slot and is desperately trying to prove it (one of MY problems, so I can sympathize).

[Almost50]

1- Why is Heartless town to you?
2- Why is Kuroi scum?
(In 3-4 sentences of your own composition, please)

Heartless is town because half gut, half because i dont think this is anti's scum game, so i guess full gut?
Kuroi is scum because he's not paying attention to what his strongest scumread is doing.

1- Because he already claimed something similar to you, duh! If he's not in your PT he's highly suspicious. Do you think we have TWO non-human groups who are both aligned with town?

2- Same reason, but in reverse. If there are only 4 of you then you only have 1 scum in the PT. If you have like 6 you may have 2 or even 3 (of different factions though). It would make it easier for me to pick the odd one out if there were only 4 of you than it would be to pick the 2/3 out of 6/7/8 (although I feel like I'm stretching it with 8 in one PT I think there should be 4-6 in there).

Sorry, but i'll take the liberty of staying quiet right now.

my neighborhood already hate me for outing too much information >.<

That certainly gave me nothing new, but thanks for responding anyway!

[Almost50]

@Almost, we're at stallsville - needs a flip. Kuroi is resorting to mudslinging and flail. WT is showing more resignation. Just saying I don't wanna is not good enough. Why do you townread WT and Kuroi?

You know how I beat you in open 627. I flailed hard and no one would hammer me. Town wouldn't talk or compromise. Everyone had their lynch and then it was hurrrdurr speed wagon. Don't repeat what you did before. We need flips.

I'm currently working on it from a different angle and trying to get some conversation with everyone (but in turns, so I could actually get a grasp).

[Almost50]

If you want logic
Why does Scum!WT Vote Klingy and keep pushing for her lynch instead of Kuroi?
He's obviously not playing for survival.

Erm.. um.. cuz they're both the same faction?? neither of them is voting the other, actually!

[Almost50]

she confirmed that its a town win condition.

she can't explain the threats

and I simply win when they are all gone.

. . .

unvote

I don't think you understand the mechanics of this game.
Like, at all.

Does any of us??? I doubt it.

Here's crazy idea: There are overlapping win-cons that do not necessarily match but do not necessarily intersect either.

I'll give you an example (but I'm spoilering it in case you want to skip my ranting):

Spoiler:

You're from the Southern Democratic Republic (hypothetical name precisely picked so as not to be mistaken for a claim). You live in La La land and you're race is a Genie. Now someone else who hails from South DR maybe living in Black Hole and is actually a Fairy, but you too win together if you eliminate all threats to South DR.

HOWEVER, there is another GENIE who lives in Black Hole and THEIR win con is to eliminate all threat to GENIES.

Obviously eliminating threats to Genies does not exactly coincide with eliminating threats to SDR, but they're not exactly contradictory either if there's not grudge between the two (obviously not bc you're a Genie AND from the South).

Now, there's an outsider faction (or more than one) who's win condition is to CONTROL THE LYNCH (become 50% +1 of the living players or nothing to prevent that .. etc.), and THAT -ladies and gentlemen- is what you would refer to as scum in this game.

Now let's not forget there's a CULT too, and their win con may still be the same (controlling the lynch, if they don't die when their cultist dies) OR it maybe to cult an X number of players (seeing as the cult "may" all suicide if their cultist dies).

Shall I go on?? Oh, I LOVE setup speculation, and especially so when there are no definite limits and I can let my imagination take me to higher levels.. like how about 28 different winning conditions? Oh, that would be REALLY stretching, but you do get the picture, don't you?? 7 races, 4 nations, 5 locations = 140 possible combinations.

This is why "

Some players who you may not think are allies will be fighting for the same thing you are,

" (i.e. non-humans who can win with humans for instance), and "

some players who you may think are fighting for the same thing you are may not actually be allies.

" (maybe humans who are have a different cause or maybe a reference to Wuldens (the cultist) being human himself.)

Thank you ladies and gentlemen. I will now step down the soap box. No need to cheer and applause.

[Almost50]

well shit
thats a hell of a mystery no one thought was a mystery and didnt even really need solving
but damn if it didnt just get solved so nice work

What part of

No need to cheer and applause.

did you misunderstand?

[Almost50]

FTR, I've never heard/read a rule about using any text colour all over the site. I only know of the specific game rule of not using the mod colour, and Mastin has clearly chosen bolded black as her mod colour.

[Almost50]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5201700

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Trust_Tell

Red Text/Umineko reference of that manner in Mafia is banned.

OK, I've read the page and it clearly does not apply here. The page refers to using a "tell" and/or using that certain colour in context of telling the crowd something they didn't know but the player did. I was quoting the mod and I used 2 different colours to differentiate between 2 different phrases that had too different meanings. This means what I was saying (highlighted by those two colours" were supposed to be general info known to all players. It's the "interpretation" that may differ from one to another, and I did not use a different colour for that. Only the mod provided text. *Sigh*

Anyway, I apologize if I stepped into a shady territory. I usually use red and blue or red and green when I try to show a contradiction, a clear separation, making contrast .. etc.

[Almost50]

I get the feeling NOBODY is reading! Like.. how does:

"You win when all threats to the

Individual Vampire faction

have been eliminated."

read like "Town" to you guys?? Unless you're Vampires yourselves.

From what I gather we have like 4 Human Factions (Titus flipped Western, so I would expect Northern and Eastern each comprise their own factions), and Molla belonged to the "Individual Humans" making it 4 Town (err.. HUMAN) factions already. We also have the Undead who are apparently aligned with Humans, then we have the Vampires and we have the Wuldens (nobody flipped that, but that's the Cult, unless -of course- Vampires are the Cult in this game).

Yes, I'm confused too, but not to the extent I'd call a Human flip Scum and a Vampire one Town.

Also, 3 Heros (one of each faction as stated in Titus' role PM) "could" point to them 3 committing the 3 kills, but I can't see Humans having 3 kills with scum not having any, so I'm assuming at least one of them didn't go through.

If we inspect Titus PM closely (she's Human AND a killing role, so that's why) she could only kill her target if non-Human, so that's dram. (Unless she used her 1-shot FACTION KILL on Molla).

I'm assuming the other 2 so called heroes can only kill humans too (or to be more precise: have similar PMs to Titus?) in which case it's more likely we had TWO scum kills on Humans and one human kill on Scum.

Oh, also.. either the 3 nations factions do not have doctors or they do not know eachother (one more reason to reassure you Titus was town, bc the doctor of her faction should've been on her if he knew who she was, simply because she was the HERO).

Suffice it to say, 4-Human factions, with -at least- 3 of them possessing a "conditional" killing role, one non-Human faction allied with the Humans, and 1-2 Scum factions that can kill, plus a cult!! WOW! That's 7 factions in total, making each of 4, maybe??

[Almost50]

Was Dram scum?

Also

VOTE: Wayward

~Bee

No he wasn't. He was aligned with Humans. His faction wins when all threats are eliminated and all humans get together.

[Almost50]

I don't know which flips are Scum and which aren't.

Also why are there redacted parts?

Check the winning conditions, dude. The reacted is bc this faction probably has a PT, so the names of their members are in that PM. The other two do not have PTs though.

[Almost50]

So i take it Kuroi was scum?
I'm not sure on the rest, but i think Molla was town.

Correct on both accounts.

[Almost50]

It doesn't tell me who is WITH me or AGAINST me.

If you don't know that then YOU ARE TOWN. Titus & Molla didn't know either (No PT) so they were definitely TOWN. dram had a PT, but that works more like a neighbourhood in normal games because his win con supports both human factions flipped (and any others that didn't flip yet).

[Almost50]

What I notice is that both Kuroi and BBMolla give a nation result of "Other"

Another one who apparently isn't reading:

Kuroi: You give the home

Nation

result of

Northern Tribes

.
Molla: You give the home

Nation

result of

West Empire

.

Both copied directly from their role PMs on page 157

[Almost50]

I share the same win condition with Kuroi. That is as far as I want to claim.

So you're claiming a Vampire/aligned with Vampires? GREAT!

VOTE: Salt Squad

[Almost50]

ActionDan actually makes a really good point.

-Nahdia

No he doesn't

I second that!

[Almost50]

A50 if I was scum why wouldn't mastin give me a scum fake claim.
If I am scum why would I just respond to a fake faction cop allegation by claiming a scum win condition.

how am I supposed to know she didn't? She did give you one for all I know, but you found it more convenient to go another route bc the FAKE CLAIM DOESN'T WORK! << Learnt this first hand.. and more than once! Like th mod would give you a Tracker false claim when there's already a Cop and a Jailer in the setup. Or they may give you a Hider claim when there's already a Commuter and a BG.

Come on, mate. I'm Human and I know I should eliminate non-Humans "hostile non-humans". dram's flip and/or win con do not strike me as "hostile" at all. 3 flips win with the Human race (minor differences may mean anything, including the rivalry between the 3 Heroes Titus' PM referred to), so if 2 of them die (one already did) Humanity is unified under the commandment of one Hero to fight HOSTILE non-Humans. Vampires apparently do not win with Humans.

[Almost50]

So you don't have a PT, but you do have a recruit...?

-Nahdia

Yup, so they can recruit there own again and again!

[Almost50]

I'm not revealing anything about PR abilities,

b

ut I can check Nations.

Basically, I'm a

N

o

rthern Tribes Human

.

Northern Tribes

Other

Hu

m

an

Anyone else want to claim something, ladies and gentlemen? Feel free!
(And they call ME king of "unnecessary" RC'ing) << See that Frozen??

[Almost50]

My target on day 1 was LLD was a wulden.

Fair enough! We can check this out AND Wuldens are the CULT in my mind anyway, so I'm game!

VOTE: LLD

[Almost50]

Dmitri Damanos, once a mere bandit who had fled from the eastern kingdom, had formed a cult revering the beasts as gods.

This cult, the Wulden

,

Wuldens are the CULT, my friend!

[Almost50]

I did explicitly role cop LLD

Did you ROLE Cop her or did you RACE Cop her? Please be specific. It may not matter on THIS particular outcome, but it does matter on others I think, since we had flips from the same nation belonging to different factions.

[Almost50]

That's funny because I'm an individual Wulden, and I targetted you last ngiht and found out you're a 2 shot BP with a "Other" Nation.

So, he's from "Other" nation, not from Northern Tribes?? Cool! And what's that about him being a 2-X BP? Are you a ROLE COP??

[Almost50]

Do you deny you are an "Other" nation or that you have a 2 Shot BP?

Are you calling me a liar?

Wait! You're talking about Luna here?? I mistook it for an investigation on Salt!

[Almost50]

Do we know for a fact that Wulden are Scum?

In my mind we do, but apparently some people disagree, so it looks like we're going to play a big game of survivours!!!!!!!

I beg of you and Fire to trust me at this point. Stormblade, Luna & Copper may (or may not) have one scum in them three, but the other 2 (or all 3) are aligend with us. Also Toog and it Town and it seems like rb might be.

besides: We have no flipped Wuldens, so "maybe" this is the faction that wins win they control 50% of the votes?? (In my mind, eliminating all threats = controlling 50% of the votes for scum. If they control the votes and can kill/recruit at night they're guaranteed to lynch TOWN and then kill/recruit one at night vs "maybe" losing one to a town kill).

But anyway, let's flip the claimed Wulden to see how their win con looks like and then you can decide on who IS Town (in terms of factions) in this game!

[Almost50]

No, those are both true. I can't be a serial killer considering you already know I'm either with you or I'm a spy for another faction. Namely, the Wulden faction.

And another Scum Claim! I thought you were UNDEAD like dram was!!!!

[Almost50]

I am Sergius Seneca, Individual Wulden Rolecop.

Spare me the detail, please. Go right to the bottom: What does your win con look like?

[Almost50]

IDK I see "other" and 2 shot BP and it doesn't make me think "town"

TBH, it makes sense to me if they have to win with someone else sharing their own win con alive. Unless there's half a dozen of then in the game their chances are dim to survive this WWIII scenario!

[Almost50]

You wont
She and me cant literally be both scum, And the scum spying on us is Wulden.
So either she's Wulden too with LLD, or she's with town.

So you knew all along that the spy was WULDEN and it didn't occur to you to tell us this when you were claiming almost EVERYTHING??

Well, Storm would not fake claim Wulden on LLD then, would she??

[Almost50]

Like my win con specifically talks about winning with humans, and I don't know how much I can say but there's a treaty I'm meant to protect.

Is the word "new" in there? Because that seems to be the difference between win cons in the Undead PT (says Nahdia or Luna, I don't remember which.)

[Almost50]

@Luna
@Stormblade
@Copper

Now could you please tell us if there are any others in that PT? And -more importantly- can you confirm dram was part of it?? Like, PRETTY PLEASE??

[Almost50]

My role PM says individual wulden and

new

human treaty

@Luna:
@Stormblade:

Check this one out and compare to your own PMs. I thought one of you said the word "new" didn't exist in their PM. If BOTH of you don't have it, this might be it!

[Almost50]

@Salt:

this is from post #3 (Game Mechanics)

Each faction, if possessing a non-human race, has a one-shot ability to recruit a human to their faction.

Emphasis "human". This ability will fail if more than one faction attempts this on the same target. This ability does not work on all humans.

Regardless of success or failure, this ability is used up once activated.

Tell me again, so you think each member of your faction can recruit on their own?????

Note: This isn't flavour for you guys who are not buying Wuldens for scum. I say WULDENS AND VAMPIRES are BOTH SCUM!

[Almost50]

So, like I said, I received a message last Night.

So, like this is the second time you say this but I'm hoping you explained somewhere in the upcoming 9 pages!

[Almost50]

WHY WOULD I NOT BE GIVEN A FAKE CLAIM IF I WAS SCUM.
WHY WOULD IF LUNA CLAIMED A "ISOLATION WHATEVER THING" RESULT ON ME WOULD I CLAIM INDIVIDUAL VAMPIRE.

like come on you guys are being terrible.

Stop screaming that, you're starting to sound like a broken record! Like, none of us can check on you inbox and verify you don't have a scum claim to begin with. Maybe Individual Vampires ARE own after all and maybe THAT is your fake scum claim.

The thing is a Cop investigated you and returned a different result. Moreover, your claim doesn't even make sense (what with every one of you has a 1-shot recruit of their own, and yet not sharing a PT ..etc.). Maybe you were given the claim but not the details. How the freak are we supposed to know what a fake claim looks like anyway, unless you're assuming all players are scum and are all given fake claims like you.

Now you vote LLD, and she votes you back.. 2 caught scum .. let the people decide which of you gets offed today. The other will probably be gone by night, and that's one reason I want to lynch LLD over you, because your doctor is already dead. That and the admittedly thin reason of wanting to see how a Wulden's win con looks like.

[Almost50]

Literally every non-human can once per game change the alignment of some humans, it says in the OP.

Not so. Every FACTION containing a non-human has a 1-X FACTIONAL recruit "attempt". If they target a non-human, if they target a human that is immune to conversion, or if more than one of them target the same person it will fail and become exhausted. If the recruiter is blocked or the target was jailed (or is a hider/commuter ..etc) I suspect the same will happen, but this part I'm not too sure of. The recruiter will not be notified of the REASON why it failed if it does.

This makes me think North, East, West and Individual Humans are all Human and incapable of recruiting. Other factions will be given a PT to share their results and pick that one shot target. The Wuldens (and I mean the CULT) typicallyb start with ONE member, and work their way from there. This is one more reason for the win con phrasing (50% of the votes), bc it would be unfair for a group to have no factional kill, start as a minority of the minority, lose it's recruiter and after gaining 50% of the votes still losing due to the existence of 2 or more killing roles at night.

We lynch the Wulden NOW and stop their spread, then we deal with the Vampires and humanity prospers,

[Almost50]

What i think is he already got culled into this Isowhatever faction and they want more members.
And he's just using his original role as a fake claim.
But ok if you guys want to believe it more than the Faction Cop then go ahead, meanwhile my vote wont move.

I could try to convince you otherwise, but I would rather you worked it out on your own. Like, discuss it in the PT with your neighbours if you will (but beware of that mole in the PT).

[Almost50]

Read the flavor.

So, you use flavour when it suits you and dismiss it when it doesn't?!!!
I mean, Puh-leeeease!

[Almost50]

I did explicitly role cop LLD

Did you ROLE Cop her or did you RACE Cop her? Please be specific. It may not matter on THIS particular outcome, but it does matter on others I think, since we had flips from the same nation belonging to different factions.

Rolefishing?

This response ALONE is enough for me to pursue your lynch to the end of time and beyond. YOU said you investigated their race, then YOU said you Role Copped them. I only asked you to specify which one YOU meant of the two YOU typed! How on Earth is that rolefishing?

[Almost50]

I am Sergius Seneca, Individual Wulden Rolecop.

Spare me the detail, please. Go right to the bottom: What does your win con look like?

Already claimed, read please.

Don't mind him, he's just doing that thing where he responds one post at a time.
Like, seriously, could people at least group that shit up into 5's or something? I get that you're behind but goddamn it's annoying -_-'

-Nahdia

Well, I don't respond to every single post, so there you go. Also, I personally hate it otherwise (i.e. hate those shitty wall quotes with multiple quotes and responses bc I tend to either skim them or lose track of who said what and which part the poster is responding to). Like, No retreat asked me to tone it down and I did, and ended up reading the last 500 posts or so of D1 after the lynch had occurred!

[Almost50]

VOTE: LLD

It just doesn't add up.

Albert

Someone with brain!

@rb + LLD: OK.. I got it.. we all got it ... you two are scum together. Like rb will lynch SS, Luna, me, WT or even RAM (I have no idea why RAM is tossed in this pool tbh) but won't touch YOU. I mean, even Stevie Wonder can see this! And yes I cannot be culted.. I'm a bloody PGO for God's sake. You come near me and you get blown to pieces. That IS why I said "Humans" should not target me, but non-humans were welcome. I simply did not want to kill a Human, bc I am one and I didn't want to kill one of my own.

You vote doesn't scare me either. If Humans want to win this game they will come forward and unite for the cause. If they fail to, then I won't be the one to blame for failing the human race. It's as simple as that. Good Night!

[Almost50]

To whom it may concern:

This is how I perceive the setup so far:

1- Four Human factions, namely: Northern Tribes, Western Empire, Eastern Kingdom & Individual Humans.

Apparently these have overlapping win-cons. Each would win when "all threats to said faction are eliminated", but it doesn't necessarily mean that they would be considered a threat to eachother.

2- From Titus Role PM we deduce there are at least 3 Heros (mentioned by name in said PM). I suggest these INDIVIDUALS would be considered a threat to eachother (but not to other members of the other factions). Once 2 of them die this means the one standing is not threatened by any Human entity (individual or consequently a faction) anymore, and all 4 Human factions can win together. (This bit was not clear before we saw the Titus flip in full).

3- There is a non-Human faction that can also win with humans.

4- All other non-Humans (aside from the faction mentioned in #3) are considered enemies of the Human Race (they can either cult, recruit or kill Humans). These factions fight for their own survival.

5- I have yet to understand the "new treaty bit", so I'm not going there until we have more information.

6- I'm reluctant to claim more, but here's how i know there are likely 4 TOWN factions: I belong to the Northern Tribes (Nation) and we also win when all threats to our faction are eliminated. To the members of this very faction who share the very same condition, my PM text colour is

CYAN

(I believe that's proof enough, since no Northerner has flipped yet).

Now, I invite all Humans and their non-Human allies to unite here and now and VOTE LLD. It's a priority for all of us to get rid of a possible CULT than it is to get rid of the one shot recruiting Vampires. Besides, the vampire doctor is dead, so Salt could actually be taken out by any killing role out there at night.

Now I've put myself in a very delicate situation, bc all non-Humans will now want me dead for being this firm against them (except those who can win with us, that is). But I will remind you that we started the game as a majority (and I estimate that to be between 16-12 to 18-10), so we still likely have the majority here. If we all unite and vote for one of the confirmed non-humans ) and I already explained why it's better to vote off the Wulden over the Vampire) we can get them lynched no matter what. Additionally some of them will have to join us to try and blend in (isn't that what Scum is all about?) and we will have a clearer view as to who to investigate at night (be that for race if Humans have that, for Nation or Location as most of us have been offered to pick pre-game).

P.S. I'm not even sure the "Town" needs a Race Cop to begin with. If the Race isn't indicative of alignment then the Town simply has no use for one. Only SCUM will need it to ensure they target a Human as a recruit, since it's specifically stated in the rules that only Humans (actually only some of them even) can be recruited, while other races cannot.

Please give this your utmost consideration when deciding to cast a vote.

P-edit:

@rb:

The only Humans that will be against the Human Race are those culted or recruited by a Scum faction. And yes, you're right, I'm not "directly" aligned with them Individual Humans, as I'm a proud NORTHERN TRIBES member!

@Mastin:

Can we call ourselves VIKINGS??

[Almost50]

WTF is new humanity treaty?

THIS makes me think you're TOWN. I'm starting to doubt this "new treaty" thing is anti-town, but then there are also Wuldens and Vampires (and probably more, given there's a "Destroyer of Worlds" too) so I'm not exactly on top of this point.

[Almost50]

Also flavour calls Titus a martyr of the new humanity treaty, so maybe once we defeat the evil factions we get to sign one and that would make dramonic town-aligned.

[Almost50]

Cause like, depending on wordings couldn't it jsut refer to having a Wulden (me) who is part of the treaty?

I very much doubt a HUMAN treaty would include a WULDEN "race", but what do I know? You could argue you were once Human, but so were the Undead and probably Vampires, Lycans and what not (nobody claimed a Lycan yet, btw. Shouldn't there always be Lycans vs Vampires and we could go Bella-isque

[Almost50]

@Frozen:

Would you disagree that lynching the CULT is more important than lynching any other scum? Cult starts with 1 recruiter (cultist) and there's only been 1 night so we have a 50% chance of flipping the cultist themselves. If not, then -at least- keep them at bay (since they are not guaranteed to succeed every night).

Btw, do the cult suicide if the cultist is lynched in this game??

[Almost50]

How do you know dram had a PT??????

He had the same win con as Luna, Stormblade & Copper, so he was in that PT with them (They keep dodging any confirmation though as if confirming/denying this will end their world).

[Almost50]

Also why are you assuming Kuroi had a recruit function?

Salt already claimed same faction, same win con and a recruit shot that he claimed each member of the faction had independently from the other members.

factions with "individual" prefix have a wincon of eliminating threats to the human treaty,

Where did you even get this? Like, Individual Humans win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (BBMolla), and Individual Vampires win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (Kuroi). Please double check facts before you post.

[Almost50]

Also no one messing with my results doesnt mean we're clear of scum (they might have chosen not to mess up with me).
But being messed up with pretty much means there is at least 1.
So if lynching SS yields town we know there's for certain a spy there. And if we lynch scum we dont, but we lynched scum.

How do you even know the Wuldens even have a redirector to begin with?? Mastin's post suggest there might be a redirector in game, but not necessarily in your PT and/or in the spy's faction.

[Almost50]

To be frank, I'm lost in this game. I don't know who's with/against me. IF it's true that the four flips are 'Town,' that would help me tremendously, i.e. having some sort of lead.

I'm afraid if I tried to explain anything (whether I'm right or wrong) I'd get lynched. The thing is scum are smart and town are stupid (this is a general rule of the thumb and not directed at any one person/entity in specific).

What I can guarantee you now (without making any "assumptions") is that you're aligned with me, rb (unfortunately), Toog, and someone else that I'm not going to expose right now bc I don't want them killed.

I strongly believe (but not quite positive) that Tim, No Retreat and ASoIaF are also on our side, plus -of course- the Undead PT (hmm.. all but one, according to them).

Now try to work from there.

Oh, and if you do get that game going, please send me an invite. I like complicated games (as you probably can tell by now).

[Almost50]

I'd bet my left nut on Eastern Kingdom being the human-scum faction. Especially since we've had zero claims from there whatsoever.

Actually nobody "claimed" Western either. We found out through Titus flip.

OK, let me throw another "bad idea" out there:

I've been giving it careful thinking and this didn't just "hit me", but it came to me as I was putting pieces together, rereading my own notes and remarks (that file was getting too big and messy that I had to rephrase and summarize before it got out of control).

Here we go:

There are exactly 4 Nations (North, East, West and Other). 28 players divided equally between these = 7 players each (I'm talking about the NATION here, not alignment or faction or whatever).

Each group of them got separated by the global wars. Some got converted, some went astray, and some stuck together.

Those who stuck together formed the 3 Human factions (East, West and North) with 4 members each (just a hypothetical assumption there than may prove wrong, but is more likely to be correct in my mind). That's 12 players.

One of each Nation got lost in the deserts (or woods or whatever) and their banded together to form a 4-man Individual faction (this is part of why I think it likely each Human faction had 4 members).

3 from each Nation transformed into something or another. Some good, and some bad. That's where the other factions come from, and that's also where the overlap.

For the following part I would strictly advise you to double check your PM just to be absolutely sure. If you have something contradictory to one of the following points then do NOT CLAIM, but also do NOT follow me, bc my voting will be most likely based on these assumptions:

Northern FACTION: You're all from NORTHERN Tribes. (Not all Northern Tribe belongs to this faction though)
Western FACTION: You're all from WESTERN Empire. (Not all Western Empire belongs to this faction though)
Eastern FACTION: You're all from EASTERN Kingdom. (Not all Eastern Kingdom belongs to this faction though)

Now, INDIVIDUAL HUMAN FACTION: You are NOT from the West (Molla already flipped from there, so you're either from the East, North or Other).

The UNDEAD: dram was from the East, and you had 5 members in your PT including one spy. I'd suggest one you hails from the North, one from the West and one from Other. The spy though could be either of those Nations, but the TRUE MEMBERS of the faction who are still alive cannot be from the East. If you have the ability to check the NATION of eachother look there. Wherever you find two of the same NATION = one of them is the spy. (I take it that Stormblade already claimed to be from "Other", but I suspect you all claimed your full details to eachother in that PT?? If you did, just check the claims and it will be apparent to you who the spy might be).

That's now 5 faction with 4 members each = 20 players. The other 8 (2 from each Nation) are divided between other factions. One NORTH already flipped (Kuroi) and I VERY MUCH DOUBT that Salt is the same FACTION and SAME NATION of Kuroi, so that makes Luna's guilty on them much more believable at this point.

Also, insisting to live for one more night "may be" due to the fact he is the last (i.e. only one) of his faction and he wants so much to recruit someone to still have a shot at winning the game (which does make HIM the cult, I think, if he's the only one there that is.)

Thirdly, even if he's not the only one in that faction, they still missed out on recruitment (it failed) and they want to keep their number. Every single day a faction goes through without losing one of it's members brings them closer to the win. No faction can win if totally eliminated, even if their "allies" were to go on and win it.

If the above makes sense to you,

vote Salt Squad

. If it doesn't, stay put or vote wherever you feel is best.

VOTE: Salt Squad

[Almost50]

In post [post]5133[post] davesaz makes a very good point. WHY would a redirector target Luna on N1? If they knew she will be checking beeboy it would be to protect a buddy (but not to implicate someone as the redirector presumably wouldn't know the faction/alignment of beeboy if they were'nt buddies). HOWEVER, redirecting the action on beeboy to protect him should've been to someone who looked town to the redirector.

So, if it WAS redirected then beeboy IS scum, and his buddy knows of another scum now. If it was NOT redirected then beeboy is still scum and Luna got the actual investigation result on him. (er.. them.. I mean the Salt Squad slot, but I keep referring ro them as beeboy bc he's the most active head).

davesaz then proceeds with a 3rd "unlikely" scum plot by Luna faking a result. I don't see how or why -at this stage of the game- would Luna or her PT members would have recognized Salt as a potential threat and decided to sacrifice one of their own to get him lynched. They may have targeted him with a recruit that failed is all, but even that wouldn't be strong enough for them to claim a guilty on him and get him lynched.

So, lynching Salt now gives us the following:

He flips Isolatioist (or whatever Luna said he was) and he's a confirmed scum flip + Luna is on the clear on this one.
OR
He flips Individual Vampires and Luna is caught lying.
OR
He flips a 3rd faction (yet unknown to us) and we know of the existence of that faction AND that it's a Scum faction (because of both the redirection and the beeboy lying about it).

[Almost50]

EDBWORP

5133

[Almost50]

Why didn't you investigate your own PT Luna? You could have been clearing your own PT at a rate of 2 per night, between discovering individuals within the PT who had a different wincon, and using dramonics racial cop to find those who had fake claimed. I understand the others may not have claimed, but there is little reason to not turn your neighborhood into a masonry.

I don't think anybody would lie about their nation and/or location. For one thing it is NOT incriminating -all by itself- to be of either Nation or location. For another, this would be easily found out since many (most?) of us were given the option to set our investigation to return either Nation or Location. You can't fool a dozen investigators and you could be investigated by more than one on the same night too.

What one may fake though is either their race (Kuroi did it already, so don't go nuts on me) or their FACTION (THIS is the most important thing. It's their win con, and is the alignment indicative most strong lead that we know of).

[Almost50]

"SCUM" are given FAKECLAIMS. When the player dies, the fakeclaims show up in the flip.

Really?!? You must have been play way different mafia games on this site then I have. Because, I have never in all my games seen that.

Except .. it does if it's a personal ability??

If a player's ability to fakeclaim is a personal ability, it will be known at their flip. However, if it is a factional ability, it will be redacted.

[Almost50]

Why would she waste her ability on the claimed faction cop of the hood. A private topic in this large a game should work together for a while before suspecting each other as you are the best support for each other.

Watcher on you IS working WITH you, btw. They make sure you're not redirected, and if you are they know who it is. If you get RB'd they know who did it, and if you get NK'd they know who the killer is. Basically, a watcher only watches over someone they expect to be targeted with an action to know performed it on the person they're watching. It's the inverse of a Tracker who tracks a suspect to learn if they targeted someone else with an action.

We are from the West Empire

-sc

West? Then why did I have it as NORTH on my notes?? Hmmm...

I'd have to review my case on you in light of this teeny weeny little detail.

^ above applies to A50 and TWIE.

Confirming I'm not reading the game here. I didn't see this post I'm quoting nor did I see 5290, so...

P.S. Anyone is favour of claiming races like Salt is suggesting, please raise you hands up high so I can see them.

Seriously though, one more point to my claim on you as a CULTIST. You can only cult a certain race (I suspect that's Humans) or maybe certain races in particular, and you want to make sure your next attempt lands on someone from that race. Otherwise, why don't you race cop someone first before you ask them to claim? Like, why would you make your target obvious beforehand anyway? It doesn't make sense. And you asking me points out you're not reading AT ALL.

@No Retreat:

Are you happy with me toning it down to the limit? I can show at least one other player doing their catch up the way I do it (post by post) though, and nobody seems to care. Sorry for being lame.

[Almost50]

Luna I have a question who inside A50 and TWIE is in your hood so we don't need to get people to honest claim human and get culted or fake claim and make scum hunting the redirector impossible.

See?? This PROOF that you're no reading. I ALREADY CLAIMED NORTHERN TRIBES FACTION. Do you think if I was in their with them they'd have let it go? All of them?? Oh, PLEASE!!

[Almost50]

@A50

I was reading your last page and my role is against some part of that big description thats the much I will claim

~Ice

Thanks for the note, and I do very much agree you don't need to claim anything.

I'll be working on my own assumption sometime when after I get some sleep.

[Almost50]

Lynching me today is incredibly horrible town play.

Someone from your slot was arguing you might be the BEST lynch of the day for the sake of the town though. Was that some type of reverse psychology or something?

[Almost50]

Lynching me today is incredibly horrible town play.

Weren't you saying before:

I am starting to think I actually am the best lynch since the LLD wagon is crap and LLD can confirm herself the same way I can confirm myself tonight.
I am going to be on a computer in 1.5 hours where I can explain my reads and point to you guys who to lynch because you guys aren't lynching outside Luna's neighbourhood until the scum in there gets lynched because my town flip basically confirms scum in that hood and don't listen to anything that says otherwise.

^^^ THIS

Thank you, Luna.

[Almost50]

@Storm, I lost the multiquote and am lazy: I need to consult the mod before I answer you.

Luna I have a question who inside A50 and TWIE is in your hood so we don't need to get people to honest claim human and get culted or fake claim and make scum hunting the redirector impossible.

See?? This PROOF that you're no reading. I ALREADY CLAIMED NORTHERN TRIBES FACTION. Do you think if I was in their with them they'd have let it go? All of them?? Oh, PLEASE!!

In that case, I reiterate my question to you: How did you know dramonic was part of a Private Topic? I assumed that was you slipping being in the Undead neighborhood, but since it apparently isn't then..??

I thought I already answered that, but in case I didn't: HE FLIPPED UNDEAD. Once he flipped, two of the neighbourhooud members confirmed their win con to be the same as him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce he was part of that PT, especially with [readacted] part in his role PM hinting he was informed of his own partners.

[Almost50]

So I have a 1-shot ability that converts someone to an individual vampire (all non humans have this) thus would mean the person I converted can confirm me or at the very least you lynch me tomorrow and I confirm the person I converted.

Mate, you keep repeating this over and over and over again, so let me try to simplify the matter for you:

There are people in this game who believe you're scum. There are others who believe you are town. And there are some who don't know.

For you to be given a chance to convert someone means:

those ho believe you are town will still believe it. Those who believe you are scum will believe you AND your convert are scum still. Those who don't know will have TWO instead of one person to still be confused about.

The issue isn't whether you can convert someone or not. The issue is whether you are town or not.

For you to keep repeating yourself is hurtful. And for you to keep NOT reading the thread and going on with wrong assumptions that have been explicitly corrected and/or asking questions that have already been answered more than once doesn't help at all. You're not scum hunting. You're just concerned about your own survival for just another day (or NIGHT to be more precise). THAT is suspicious all and in itself.

[Almost50]

My family divided

our celebration of my birthday into two parts

TWO Things:

1- HAPPY BIRTHDAY

2- What's the soft claiming Northern Tribes yourself??

[Almost50]

Tho i guess you do have a point in that.
This game is really confusing in that sense.
But mastin put a lot of work into this, and im at least enjoying figuring everything out.

That's the spirit (Seriously. No mocking intended.)

[Almost50]

You claimed a guilty on me.

Hold on a second! How do you KNOW "isolationist" = GUILTY??

[Almost50]

I also want to understand why I don't have access to my faction's PT,

Because we don't have a PT!! Are you for real, wake? We don't need to out ALL our faction members. Nobody needs to announce they belong to the Northern Tribes. Remember we have a HERO to protect. They shouldn't need to be known to the public.

[Almost50]

Didn't someone say a fakeclaim would be revealed if a Scum player died?

It would if it was given to then ONLY. It won't if it was given for their whole faction.

[Almost50]

You claimed a guilty on me.

Hold on a second! How do you KNOW "isolationist" = GUILTY??

Because this day phase has had 80 pages and no one has claimed to be part of that faction ^__^
Keep trying though.

Excuse me for not knowing the basics of the game.

All right everybody, let's do a massclaim, bc it apparent to me now that claiming = Town, and not claiming = Scum.

Also, since I already claimed (thus must be town) why do you keep putting me in your lynch pool?? If you doubt my claim, I'd point you at wake for one. He can confirm my claim bc he IS Northern Tribes and his PM IS in Cyan, and I claimed the colour before he did, while he claimed Northern before I did, so we both confirm eachother (being Northern faction, that is).

You try again!

[Almost50]

I need to know if anyof them is my faction's threat or not.

If we knew everything right from the start we're either scum or we aren't playing Mafia at all. You need to put the pieces of the puzzle together, pursue assumptions and possibilities to get to end results.

For now, we (you and I) are allied. However, later on we may still be fully allied or may have to work on our own differences. My faction is wide exposed to yours though, so IF we had to lock horns in a later stage yours probably will come on top 99% of the time.

Let's lynch those who might be a threat to us and protect those who look like they can't hurt us. With every flip in the game we will learn something new, while with every complaint the game becomes less enjoyable, so please do put your mind in the game and try to figure it out yourself. Help me help you.. in other words.

[Almost50]

SS claimed something else

the fact SS hasn't claim "isolationist" is the guilty not the fact its "isolationist"

Well, go back and read his response and compare to how you "would have" responded.

[Almost50]

know for a fact that two of the flipped are town for not having a factional redacted part (no night kill - no fake claim ...) and maybe more reasons or not...

THAT is a very good start! So you know West & Individual Humans are definitely town (allied with you). This makes rb your ally for starters, and Toog too. Now if you start coloring the players names in blue/green for town and red for scum (which you still haven't figured out) and black/grey for "undecided yet" you have 3 (including yourself) town out of 24 alive. Try to work with them.

I -on the other hand- may sound friendly, but you don't know for SURE that my faction is just the same, so you may doubt me (and wake) a little more, but still try and give us the benefit of doubt until one of us flips and you know for sure.

Bit by bit.. little by little.. the picture may start to have a clearer look in your eyes and you may then start figuring out stuff you currently cannot. Also, share only the info you "need" to share, and keep the rest hidden for now. The less known about you the better it is for you (and probably for the rest of us too).

[Almost50]

@Cephrir:

Actually, this one is more suitable for the shitty situation we're all in..

You had something to hide
Should have hidden it, shouldn't you
Now you're not satisfied
With what you're being put through
It's just time to pay the price
For not listening to advice
And deciding in your youth
On the policy of truth

Things could be so different now
It used to be so civilised
You will always wonder how
It could have been if you'd only lied
It's too late to change events
It's time to face the consequence
For delivering the proof
In the policy of truth

Never again is what you swore
The time before
Never again is what you swore
The time before

Now you're standing there tongue tied
You'd better learn your lesson well
Hide what you have to hide
And tell what you have to tell
You'll see your problems multiplied
If you continually decide
To faithfully pursue
The policy of truth

Never again is what you swore
The time before
Never again is what you swore
The time before

[Almost50]

Confirming A50 is Northern Tribes nation.

You wasted a night investigation on me??? After I gave you the PM colour??

I hope I'm misunderstanding and that you're commenting/catching up on D2 posts.

Haven't caught up yet (haven't read anything beyond this post I'm responding to), but it's only logical that we vote Bacde as the only one still alive from that PT after all 4 dead flipped Undead. If there IS a spy in there it has to be Bacde.

VOTE: Bacde

[Almost50]

Go ahead and Lynch me if you must but nosferatu visited Luna fox and was the only person to do so and Luna fox died overnight

Rach Marie also checked Luna fox so there is my watcher proof

So, Nos was the "only" person to visit Luna, but Rach also did? I'm not sure I understand!

[Almost50]

I love how you guys are like "aggression=scum"

When did I move to bizarro world

Let me try and make things clear to you:

IF you're UNDEAD I would have expected you to not care anymore. Why? Bc the win con clearly says ANOTHER ONE of you must be alive for you to win. In other words you already lost (if you're the last one standing), and the fact that you still care clearly tells me you're not UNDEAD to begin with. That AND the "there might me a spy in your PT" bit are confirming each other, thus YOU ARE the "spy" in that PT.

The spy -if existent- is a Wulden, thus YOU are a Wulden, and Wuldens are strongly suspected to be the "other" scum faction in this game, thus you are heavily suspected of being SCUM.

Does the above help you understand or is it still misty to you?

[Almost50]

Honestly, I'm thinking this '

Destroyer of Worlds

' has some part in all of these deaths. If anyone received a message during the Night no matter how trivial I need you to share it because it's important. Now is not the time to withhold any messages.

I -for one- did NOT receive anything. It may have been specific to your role, or it may have been someone who strongly town read you that they opted to share it with you with a specific mechanic of their own role.

Either way, I'm confirming I neither sent you a message (bc I can't communicate with people at night) nor did I receive any "special" messages (i.e. nothing except my role specific PMs, which you all get: Investigative checks on either Nation or Location, which do not help much except if someone is caught outright lying, and I don't see why anyone would lie about those either.)

[Almost50]

Nosferatu visited*

I think he meant Nosferatu (player)), not Nosferatu (race).

[Almost50]

They visited Cephrir: Cephrir didn't die, he found out his race was Nosferatu and wanted to lynch him.

I obviously am not at the peak of my comprehension right now, bc I missed:

(a) Nosferatu visiting Cephrir
(b) Cephrir "not" dying!

For both (a) & (b) to be true, one must assume they occured on N1. However, Nosferatu is said to have visited ASoIaF on N1, and now I'm not sure who claimed whom did what!

[Almost50]

It seems to me that people need more pants less claims more scumhunting.

Finally we're getting closer to agreeing with eachother. I like the way you explained how ASoIaF role works referring to the FACT that Human!Titus had this in her role PM: "Any attempt to recruit you to a different faction will fail."

@rb:

Please, stop jumping to conclusions. I have you as 95% town, but your play is less than optimum. I agree you didn't "need" to out your Nation check result on Mathblade if you're not using it to build a case on them, and it's obvious you're NOT using it to build a case on them (in fact you're town reading them bc of it) so PLEASE keep the specific info about your TOWN reads to yourself unless you're using it to defend them.

Let me rephrase that: You have info about X and Y. X is a town read of yours, and Y is a scum read. You use the info on X to defend them WHEN NEEDED. Otherwise, just keep it quiet. You use the info on Y to make a case on them.

If you check the role PMs of the flipped there's obviously a mechanic that allows for a kill based on Nation/Location as well as one based on Race, so the less info about TOWN we know the less likely they could get targeted for a kill based on their Nation/Location and -also- less likely they can be targeted with a cult action.

Thank you for understanding, and PLEASE do not take this as an attack on your play, but consider it more of a friendly advice for the benefit of us all.

P-edit:

You are one of the WORST EVER, Wake. Like, the WHOLE SITE knows I respond to posts in the order they are posted in thread. I have yet to get to your "question" (whatever that might be). Give me some time to catch up and actually digest what I'm reading (better that than I do a reread bc I probably won't).

[Almost50]

n the hood? We are killing him too right if Bcade flips scum

Another one who is obviouly not reading, yet repeating the SHIT beeboy kept spewing. I an NOT a part of that PT, nor am I a part of ANY existing PT for that matter. Now go back and reread, and you'd find the ONLY ONE who insisted I was in that PT is SCUM-flipped Salt. I -on the other hand- kept asking Luna (and even Nahdia once) about the identities or even number of that PT members to no avail. On D1 I thought BBMolla was in it too (due to his claim), so get your facts right, dude.

[Almost50]

We lynch LLD today, or I will throw a shit-fit.

And by shit-fit, I mean throwing this game into chaos until players come to their senses and lynch the other Scum faction player.

It really doesn't matter which of LLD/Bacde we lynch first. They're probably of the same faction. I could throw in 4 more players that I would not oppose lynching, but that would be "sending the town into chaos" as you put it. Look at the greater picture, mate. Whichever wagon of the two gains momentum is where you should vote.

[Almost50]

And, with FIVE fucking kills, I'm pretty damned sure we have a Serial Killer, too. MEANING, the Towniest fucking player could be a Serial Killer!

I seriously don't know whether to laugh or cry. Titus (Town Hero) could kill. This ALONE leads me to believe -at least- 3 more town killers (we know there IS an Individual Human faction, and I can't see them being w/o a Vig of their own since the West did have one. We also know there are two more Heros mentioned in her role PM, specifically the East and the North Heroes.)

Now we also know the Isolationist Scum Faction had a factional kill, and if Wuldens are "not" the cult then that's the 5th kill. If Wuldens ARE the Cult though, then your SK might be your World Destroyer or something, but I seriously doubt there'd be a stand-alone SK in a 28-players game. I mean, they'd be required to survive 5 kills per night (since we ended up with 5 tonight, and Titus is already dead). I won't even talk about their killing targets. They probably should not have killed anyone tonight and hoped that more killing roles would flip to cover for the other 4 kills before they started acting. Right now EVERYBODY (and I mean every single player/faction other than the SK themselves) will be looking for them.

Suffice it to say, multiple kills are due to multiple factions and multiple killing roles and not necessarily due to a stand-alone killer, although IF a 4th Isolationist is still alive they've pretty much turned into a SK by now if they hadn't recruited anyone.

[Almost50]

But whatever I'm just tin-foil hatting right now.

Honestly though I must just be inexperienced at multi-ball because it seems so fucking weird that I'm being asked by what I'm like 95% sure is a town player to do the thing in a SCUM FACTION WINCON and kill a Wulden. It feels so disgusting but I think I'm starting to accept it's the right play for town...I think?

It is not that hard a concept to grasp. In any given Mafia game the Scum are required to eliminate OTHER SCUM and outnumber Town. In a single ball game there are NO OTHER SCUM so they only win when they outnumber Town. If there's a SK though the game only ends when they're DEAD even if Mafia already controls 50% of the votes, bc the SK might not (and should not) side by them ==> NL then the SK may still kill them at night. In Multiball (say Mafia + WWs) one of the two teams must be eliminated before the game ends in favour of the other (again, bc of the NK).

In THIS game we don't have "Mafia" and "Werewolves", so the "Other Scum" had to be included in the Isolationists PM for them to know who they must eliminate and whom to just outnumber. Had this not been the case the Isolationists would have -wrongfully- assumed they needed to just control 50% of the votes, or (unlikely, but they could've deduced) they needed to kill off just about everyone who was not in their faction to win it.

[Almost50]

RAM probably redirected your action with someone elses

Checking the flips:
RAM did NOT redirect anyone's action on N2. This is from their role PM:“When you perform

no night actions

(checks do count as a night action), during the night,

you are immune to nightkills.

”, and they did get killed on N2.

[Almost50]

Why aren't you voting LLD A50...?

I only have one vote, and by the time I voted it looked like Bacde was getting more votes. I could switch to LLD if I see her wagon gaining more momentum.

[Almost50]

Oh look everyone, A50's being cute.

Where's my response to 6029 you ungrateful, biscuit-eating son of a bitch?

ALso, everyone who knows me knows I do not appreciate such name calling even if it was for humour. My parents are "sacred" to me, and I don't think they brought me to life for them to be called something or the other bc of me.

Thank you.

[Almost50]

Oh, OK.

VOTE: Almost50

Are you mentally unstable?? I mean, I have 6 scum reads, which leaves me with 11 Town leans of varying degrees of strength. HOWEVER, 3 of them are totally unpredictable and cannot be relied upon. How on Earth do you vote someone you KNOW is your own faction in a game with like 5-10 factions? For all I know it could be just you, me & "some" who belong to the North Tribes "Faction" (There have been 3 Northern flips, but none of our own). There's also a Northerner in Toog but he said he's an Individual Human, so it's either there are only 3 of us or the 4th is from "Other" (never mind my crazy attempts to classify people in groups to make things look a little tidier for me).

The thing is we know we (as in OUR FACTION) do not control the votes, nor even close to it, and despite my belief we are allied with the other Human Factions it doesn't mean they share the notion (Mathblase for instance doesn't necessarily agree). Not only that, but we were guaranteed a head start at the beginning, so we could've had 13 scum roles at the start for all we know, and if Individual Vampires and Undead are town then we only had 3 of those dead, so up to 10 scum alive, and they KNOW who doesn't belong to their faction so are willing to boot them too. Now add a couple of misguided Townies and I could very well get lynched because you wanted me to respond "promptly" to a question that I didn't see and that everybody knows that I wouldn't until I'm caught up to that point.

I hope you get a grip now of the situation and start acting like the sane person I have seen play before (OK, not totally sane, but I won't comment on specifics right now.. just the "normal" you would be good for now. It gives me the opportunity to concentrate on the real threats to Twon rather than having to worry about Twon players misbehaving too!).

Announcement: Mathblade can now be counted towards my Town-Lean reads. I will only be lynching LLD or Bacde today. Nobody else. Whichever wagon of these two is willing to take off I will gladly join it.

[Almost50]

Not confirming or denying this at all though. read what I said however you want.

And I'm NOT asking you to confirm or deny ANYTHING.

Again: TOWN PLAYERS SHOULD NOT TRY TO OUT ANY ADDITIONAL INFO ON THEMSELVES OR ON OTHER TOWN PLAYERS. You don't know who IS Town, granted, but if you are town reading a player, or if your investigation confirms them as town, just keep it to yourself unless they're being wagoned and you feel the need to interfere.

[Almost50]

Wtf? My win con doesn't say that. If I survive and town (I think) wins my whole faction wins

I believe you. Now check the FOUR Undead who have flipped and compare your win con to theirs. It should b clear to YOU that you've just claimed NOT Undead in the UNDEAD PT, and the ONLY non-Undead that could be in there is a WULDEN (mod-confirmed piece of info), so YOU JUST CLAIMED SCUM, YOU FOOL!

[Almost50]

You could, I don't know, switch your vote to the confirmed Scum that is LLD.

At THIS point BOTH are confirmed scum. Both claimed Wulden already. If you've missed Bacde's claim I refer you to 6069 where he acknowledges having a different win con to that of the UNDEAD (all 4 of them had the "and at least one player with this wincon is alive." part in their win con which Bacde claims does NOT exist in theirs).

Given the ONLY other faction/race that could be in that PT aside from the UNDEAD themselves is WULDEN, this makes Bacde a WULDEN too.

[Almost50]

Because LLD being confScum is not a belief, and you are also a Wulden.

FINALLY! And the THIRD Wulden is *Drum Roll* Rach Marie

[Almost50]

Wrong

not a wulden

cant stand them uggh

I "could" be wrong, but you were soft defending Bacde before he slipped in favour of an already claimed Wulden, so I suspected you maybe bussing to get town cred and then come up with a false investigation result on Bacde.

Anyway, here's how I suggest it goes: I'm assuming both Heroes alive have the same mechanics of Titus' role, so we lynch Bacde/LLD, one of the Heroes visits LLD/Bacde (the one we don't lynch) and the other visits you.

And so as not to end up with both of them visiting the same target, I suggest East to drop by LL/Bacde and North to drop by you. If you're Human you will not die. If you're a Wulden, we got ya!

This leaves me with 3-4 other suspects to try and figure out, and -hopefully- someone will come up with an investigation result that will help.

[Almost50]

Your vote isn't on him still despite the fact he scum claimed and IS the larger wagon as we speak. Let's start there.

[Almost50]

most of them have not yet posted.

THAT is the key phrase! I can't blame someone for not voting when they have not been online to begin with, but I CAN take note of votes and posts of thise who already did show up.

@No Retreat:

Isn't his overly noisy posting in D1/D2 reason enough? Isolationist knew exactly what was going on. Wake -on the other hand- was looking for "a corner in circular room"

[Almost50]

Anyone with a Northern Tribes factional wincon is not ever going to lynch me.

That might be true, but I'm afraid you are still voting one of your own.

Also, you never responded to MY question (see? I'm NOT shouting nor am I voting you for it), which was:

Were you responding to D2 posts when you confirmed me or did you actually target me with a Nation check? This needs to be addressed as well (it IS important). Thank you.

[Almost50]

Basically we're lynching LLD and once she flips Scum and you good Sir somehow survive next Day there's a high likelihood you'll be swaying next.

I'm switching to LLD just to please you, Mr! I believe it's 5-5 now, so I'm making it 6-4 (That's LLD-Bacde). If the two Heroes alive follow my advice that would be great, but even if they don't and Bacde is still alive tomorrow they've got my vote on them in spirit already.

VOTE: LLD

[Almost50]

Were you responding to D2 posts when you confirmed me or did you actually target me with a Nation check? This needs to be addressed as well (it IS important). Thank you.

How was it not obvious that I targeted you with a Nation check?

You're literally the only player thus far who outright claimed Northern Tribes faction besides me.

Because I BLOODY told you the COLOUR of the PM before you even disd yourself, and I did it PRECISELY to keep YOU in the light! You're NOT READING ANYTHING I SAY, my friend.

HOWEVER, the fact that you DID visit me and are still alive confirms you as a Northern Tribes Faction member (there's some good in your goofy play after all). I deliberately left that part out so as to use it on people who would claim to have targeted me.

I'm a PGO, but my ability activates on everyone who is NOT of my own faction. I had hoped someone would claim they visited me and got something different so I could wipe the floor with them, but you took that bit out too.

Seriously, Wake! What do/did you need more to convince you I was not only on your side, but of the very same faction with an identical win con to yours? Why is it so hard top work with you, man?

[Almost50]

What is kinf of bothering, though, is what happens if, say, a Northern Tribes factional gets Culted.

Would they retain their Faction name, but their wincon changes? Or would they change Faction altogether?

Mastin, if you would clear this up when you're ready...

The latter. When they flip it will give you the full ORIGINAL role (since we have nothing to be readacted) and then the NEW role PM (that probably might have some redacted parts).

Oh, and I second that:

Mastin, if there was a mod mistake on giving out night action results, I don't think it confirms anything but that particular incident, so I don't think it affects the game or confirms any player's role/alignment.

[Almost50]

If bacde watched ASOIAF how did he know Klingon investigated her?

Watchers only learn which player targeted your target: not what the action itself was.

1- Klingoncelt IS Bacde FGS!
2- In THIS game they probably have "X visited your target with an ACTION" and "Y visited your target with a CHECK".
3- We don't even need to dwell more on Bacde. They're confirmed SCUM, so you're trying to prove the FACT. What we do need is to discuss others who have been skating way under the radar.

Also, we need to work together with our night checks. Like.. you, me & rb have opted to check on Nations pre-game, so the 3 of us should probably agree to target 3 different players, and one of those who can also Nation check but has not claimed it can check on one of the three just to confirm the result for themselves (i.e. they should NOT confirm it in the open as long as it coincides with the result they've got).

Also also I will repeat this, To the two Heroes alive: do NOT out yourselves. In fact, you may also want to ignore my advice about targeting certain players tonight, bc there might be some redirection and/or watching aimed to out you or screw with your night actions. The NORTH hero can safely visit me to verify I'm also Human... if they want to.

My current town block consists of (in order of appearance on the players list): Mathblade, Wake, Tim, ASoIaf, eb, Expedience, Toog & "one mysterious player". (But, by all means feel free to check on them if you wish).

My lynch pool for today is Bacde/LLD. Anyone not mentioned on either lists is either a null or a scum read, or they might want to consider themselves that mysterious town read I keep to myself.

[Almost50]

How did you like that, you hairless bitches?

Now THAT kind of humour I do like. For one thing I AM bald. For another, I'm in the mood for it!

[Almost50]

Because I BLOODY told you the COLOUR of the PM before you even disd yourself, and I did it PRECISELY to keep YOU in the light! You're NOT READING ANYTHING I SAY, my friend.

HOWEVER, the fact that you DID visit me and are still alive confirms you as a Northern Tribes Faction member (there's some good in your goofy play after all). I deliberately left that part out so as to use it on people who would claim to have targeted me.

I'm a PGO, but my ability activates on everyone who is NOT of my own faction. I had hoped someone would claim they visited me and got something different so I could wipe the floor with them, but you took that bit out too.

Seriously, Wake! What do/did you need more to convince you I was not only on your side, but of the very same faction with an identical win con to yours? Why is it so hard top work with you, man?

I don't think I actually killed anyone. I should get notified that my PGO shot has been used up (but not on whom) if I did, which is not the case. So, I believe I still got my shotgun loaded.
How many people do you think you killed when they tried to kill you last night?

[Almost50]

EBWORP:

Because I BLOODY told you the COLOUR of the PM before you even disd yourself, and I did it PRECISELY to keep YOU in the light! You're NOT READING ANYTHING I SAY, my friend.

HOWEVER, the fact that you DID visit me and are still alive confirms you as a Northern Tribes Faction member (there's some good in your goofy play after all). I deliberately left that part out so as to use it on people who would claim to have targeted me.

I'm a PGO, but my ability activates on everyone who is NOT of my own faction. I had hoped someone would claim they visited me and got something different so I could wipe the floor with them, but you took that bit out too.

Seriously, Wake! What do/did you need more to convince you I was not only on your side, but of the very same faction with an identical win con to yours? Why is it so hard top work with you, man?

How many people do you think you killed when they tried to kill you last night?

I don't think I actually killed anyone. I should get notified that my PGO shot has been used up (but not on whom) if I did, which is not the case. So, I believe I still got my shotgun loaded.
How many people do you think you killed when they tried to kill you last night?

[Almost50]

RAM probably redirected your action with someone elses

Checking the flips:
RAM did NOT redirect anyone's action on N2. This is from their role PM:“When you perform

no night actions

(checks do count as a night action), during the night,

you are immune to nightkills.

”, and they did get killed on N2.

...How do you know whether or not RAM didn't redirect anyone's actions unless you are scum with RAM?

If you read the quote (hint: there are bolded parts) you'd realize I got it in reverse. Actually RAM must've redirected someone for them to end up dead. If they didn't they should've been immune to NKs. That's what their role PM actually says, and you're only one who actually read my post there, but you still didn't get where I got it backwards!

[Almost50]

Or we could have I dunno not have people take orders from a potential scum fuck?

I will refrain from responding ONLY out of my respect to your sister. However, you use the F word one more time addressing me and I'm going to be real mean to you. Please respect my wish as I do respect yours. Thank you.

[Almost50]

Hm.

OK.

So you didn't fall for it.

If you had responded by saying you knoew they tried to kill you it would prove you a liar since the PGO Wiki states the PGO also dies in the process of being NK'd.

Still not bought on your innocence.

Stock up on liquid Patience because I'll be Scumhunting you throughout the game.

1- I'm dropping your case for the rest of the game. You obviously won't believe I'm from the same faction you are even after I flip and the role PM is posted.

2- You're overly smart too, referring to the WIKI PAGE in a ROLE MADNESS game. Where does it say that a redirector can get "action" and "check" in the wiki? It doesn't, but this is a Role Madness game, so that's how it works. Where does it say one player could single handedly get someone lynched? it doesn't, but it happened in Varsoon's bloodborne (Nahdia did cast like 9 votes with the aid of a "puppet" monster that she also controlled). Where does it say neighbourizing someone requires their acceptance to join the neighbourhood? It doesn't but it was the case in Skull's borderlines.. and so on.

But you keep on tunneling me and neglecting everything else until we both end up dead and scum -somehow- win the game.

P.S. I could also mention one more example of a non-standard mechanic for a standard role, but I can't do it now, so maybe if the day drags on a little ....

[Almost50]

No I didn't. Look at the italics. My question is why did you post they didn't redirect anyone's actions when the most likely scenario is they did.

Because I read their role PM backwards and though that if they DID submit a night action they'd be IMMUNE TO NIGHT KILLS. Now that you brought it back to me I realized my mistake as they should've been immune if they did NOT redirect someone.

[Almost50]

1) Likely not PGO since Wake said they checked you and Wake is still around.
2) This scenario makes sense if you are a Isolationist bus driver with RAM and knew RAM didn't target anyone.
3) Assuming this is the case then a strongman kill aimed at Luna to avoid the protections would have killed RAM.
It also explains a majority of the actions here as well.

1) Wake is one of my own. It would be silly if my passive ability actually killed one of my own faction.
2) If RAM targeted nobody he would still be alive. How many times do I need to say this? Read his Role PM. He is IMMUNE TO NIGHT KILLS if he does NOT submit a night action, and checks do NOT count too.
3) Strongman or no strongman, that's not a problem now. If we can lynch scum today and successfully target 1 or 2 of them at night it is likely that the strongman -if existent- will flip by D4. We WILL see the flips and decide upon them too.

[Almost50]

vote RAM

@Mathblade:

Excuse me why I speak through my laughter. Oh, boy! This Bacde is GOOD!

OK, Mathblade, the wiki doesn't include modifications specifically added by the mod for a Role Madness game. Trust me on this. The wiki only states what is NORMAL for the role to be like.

This game is not just a Large, and not only Role Madness either. It has an incredibly big number of different factions, which makes MY faction (or nay other faction for that matter) very small in comparison with the total number of players.

I would agree that a PGO does not normally select whom to target, but that would be in a one town faction (bc they're obviously large enough to afford a town kill on town). However, when your entire team is 3-4 members in a 28-players game it is most unlikely to have a role that could end up killing one of your own. I'd consider it like THIS PGO only fires at strangers. They ARE Paranoid, but they know their own "family" if you like, so they would shoot a Cop or a burglar alike, but not their own brother for instance.

But I'll tell you what: If we run out of confirmed scum to lynch, you be my guest and lynch me. After all I do NOT need to stay alive for my faction to win. We don't need to control the vote count for instance, and neither does out win con require one of us to be alive, and Mastin kindly did clarify that this win com "all threats to X faction are eliminated" does win if that condition is met even if the faction members are all dead.

As for Strongmen, yes, they do bypass protection, but the BG should've still died in that case. If you're talking about RAM though; this is not a "protection". Immunity cannot be bypassed. It's not BP nor is it a JK effect, a Doctor, a BG or anything like that. Being "immune" is being IMMUNE. And the fact that it's conditional proves it. RAM would have had to trade their night action to get it.

Finally, I whole-heartedly agree on this pants thing. I also kept screaming at people, but they -unfortunately- either ignore me or just won't listen.

Also check my voting record and compare it to my declared understanding of the game and you might realize why I haven't been flip flopping much too.

[Almost50]

Overall, I want to lynch:
Wayward
Expedience
LLD
Wake

Thoughts?

LLD is good to go.
Wayward is likely scum too, but I'm not positive on it yet.
Expedience is town unless culted/recruited by scum last night.
Wake is still town to this very moment.

And I thought you were one of those who believed flavour means shit, so I'm wondering how your Nation/Location combo would yield anything concrete. Mathblade is still likely town to me for all it's worth. (Likely though. Not "confirmed").

P-edit:

By God let me submit this post already!

[Almost50]

One of these times you are going to actually be a day vig and do that and accidentally kill someone

And the target will flip scum just the same, so I have no qualms

[Almost50]

We had 3 Isolationists & 2 Wuldens flipped, so we're either looking for one other Wulden or one Isolationist and 2 Wuldens.

davesaz lynched both Kuroi & Salt with enthusiasm (and ESPECIALLY Salt, the enemy of Wuldens who had been faction checked earlier by Luna, so dave knew where his vote is going).

However, davesaz totally avoided the LLD wagon, so he is very likely Wulden to me.

VOTE: davesaz

[Almost50]

Almost50 seems off with that I'm confirmed by color thingi >.> its like one of his scum games (there was a scum revivor and he was like I am confirmed town when I was trying to get a revived minion lynch) so meta wise he is one of the people I want to see more from and sort asap

I'm not sure which nation/faction you are anymore, but I'm not paying you much attention tbh since you sound town enough (both heads), so I'm devoting my attention on a few others.

Nosferatu is very likely Town though, and so are wake and DGB. I'd lynch WT of rb's list, and I will not fight a No Retreat lynch eaither (but I'm not pushing them bc I have no clue on that slot).

Talking of people slipping under the radar I completely lost Heartless and TWIE (Heartless was active enough on D1, but their activity took a dip on subsequent days).

Also, it's more likely we have an Isolationist alive (and 2 Wuldens), bc the Mathblade kill had to be done by a Strongman, and you know what? We had a Wulden Strongman flipping already, signaling an Isolationist Strongman should be in play for balance. Isolationists had a BP and a Ninja (both were Mathblade's abilities of the Wuldens). They had a Race Cop and Wuldens had a Role Cop. Isolationists had a Tracker and a Redirector, and I expect Wuldens to have a Redirector (unflipped yet) plus Tracker/Watcher, and -finally- Wuldens had a Strongman so Isolationists should have one (and that'd be who performed the kill last night).

I'm a ware of the culting/recruiting stuff, but for both parties (Isolationists and Wuldens) that'd be a one-off, so a 50-50 chance of being successful.

Upon reviewing my notes, I think dave can wait for today. I want pressure on TWIE, Heartless & No Retreat. dave & WT are 2nd tier suspects.

VOTE: No Retreat

[Almost50]

@ASoIaF:

If I answer any of those questions in details it could backfire. Let's just say that I do have a night check in addition to my PGO ability (everybody does, so it comes as no surprise) and the distribution on my results along with flips and stated action, along with voting patterns make dave a lesser priority on my book (only his VC patterns are concerning).

Now Heartless didn't vote Salt (the Isolationist) so based on VC alone they are likely Isolationist as dave is likely Wulden. However, there is "something" that hints Heartless is more likely scum than dave. However, Mathblade's 1547 could mean they are Wulden who opted to stay away from the Isolationist lynch for safety and hopped on LLD's for town cred, as it looked inevitable.

Now if you do a quick ISO of Mathblade you'd notice she linked you, Titus and Expedience in 692 then linked Expedience to wake in the same post. Titus already flipped Town and and I have Town reads of varying strengths on the other 3. In that same post Nos is also mentioned as an opportunistic scum. (Btw, looking back it looks like Math is most likely Titus' killer).

In 842 Math pushes more on associative tells that aren't there (Titus already flipped Town and could not have known Expedience's alignment) before she FoS'd me (1017) then FoS's TOWN!Molla (1552), yet she had a strong town read on Heartless (1547).

In 1711 Math started pushing WT, and .. I'll save you the rest of it.. let's just jump to 2730:

LLD was a TOWN read, but Nos & WT were both outright scum reads and dave was a scum lean.

Remember: I have "info" on some players too, so put my reads + my info + associative tells + bla bla in the blender and you get Nos = likely town, dave & WT a lower priority, with Heartless, TWIE & No Retreat (TWIE was a town lean for Math and both Heartless and No Retreat were outright town reads).

[Almost50]

Heartless is very likely to be human and not scum.

Says one of my other two top suspects! I'm open to discussion and I could take hints though.

[Almost50]

@Nosferatu (the player), WT & rb:

Can I please get a read list from each of you ASAP? No explanation needed if you don't want to explain the reads. Just a naked list would do for now. Thanks in advance.

[Almost50]

Anyone else experiencing occasional down times with this forum?? I mean, it's unreachable for a few minutes then it's back online. This happened to me 4 or 5 times within the last 12 hours.

[Almost50]

@Frozen:

Please remember to sign your posts. Although I do town read both heads, each of you thinks differently and expresses themselves differently, and I would very much like to know which of you is talking in order to be able to interpret the phrasing more accurately.

[Almost50]

If there's anything I can do to help with votecounts, let me know!

Colour each player name with their respective PM font colour, maybe?

P.S. If they have a fake claim available, disregard and use the actual role font colour! Thanks a lot

[Almost50]

1. Heartless (cool with this slot for now)
3. Bacde (cool with this slot for now)
7. Almost50 (cool with this slot for now)
8. Nosferatu (could lynch)
10. Wayward Thinker (could lynch)
12. davesaz (could lynch)
14. Wake88 (cool with this slot for now)
15. Tim (could lynch)
16. No Retreat (cool with this slot for now)
17. A Song of Ice and Fire (scum read)
20. rb (cool with this slot for now)
23. Expedience (could lynch)
25. TheWayItEnds (could lynch)
26. DrippingGoofball (cool with this slot for now)

27. Toogeloo (scum read)

28. RachMarie (cool with this slot for now)

You have .. a scum read .. on yourself???

[Almost50]

Toog, do you think A50's PGO claim is legit? I don't.

Why don't you just stop asking others and "come to papa" yourself? If you're a killer; come over and kill me. If you have a recruit shot; come try to recruit me. If you're afraid of doing either just accept it, and if you're town; why do you even bother?

[Almost50]

EXP
RB
Bacade

these are your three scum lynches for the day.

Of the three I would most probably go with rb. He had stronger ties with Mathblade. He avoided the Kuroi wagon and ended the day voting WT.

On D2 he also avoided the SS wagon and only voted after it has been hammered (3rd vote AFTER the hammer).

On D3 he ended the day not voting (i.e. also avoided the LLD wagon).

3 different lynches with 3 different factions/alignments and rb was on none of them, and rather than trying to figure out ALIGNMENTS he's desperately trying to figure out ROLES (maybe it's bc his faction is eying me for a recruit or they suspect me for a killing role and want to off me but are afraid of losing their own killer).

This is my case on rb, and thus my vote is on him:

VOTE: rb

[Almost50]

Case is bad and any town on this wagon should feel bad.

I'm town and I'm not feeling bad at all!

Not to mention this case only seems to occur once I actually question the legitimacy of A50's claims :^)

Exactly! Thank you for proving my "bad" point. My PGO claim has nothing to do with my alignment. You're more concerned about me being a PGO than you are about me being Northern Tribes. It looks -to me- that you are resigned to the fact that I'm both human and town, and thus a recruit candidate, but you're hesitant to attempt to recruit be because of the PGO claim. That IS my point.

I'll give it to you straight: Yes, I'm human. Yes, I belong to the Northern Tribes Faction, and YES if you try to recruit me you will end up dead. If you try to kill me it will come with a cost too. And with how things have been going I certainly don't mind a one-for-one trade.

Also: Any half-decent player knows a PGO does NOT make it to LyLo anyway, so I could become a policy lynch at some point. However, it looks like we're doing fine and we may not get to close to LyLo, which IS one more point that makes me wary of you. If you know that I would be lynched if things start going down for the town, why do you concern yourself so much with me being a PGO? My role only affects your NIGHT action, but not your ability to vote/lynch me at any time, so where is your problem?

[Almost50]

I don't buy into paranoia based lynches, sorry, and I'm certainly not going to hope that we are lynching a peon instead of possibly hitting more threatening targets.

Toog, ASoIaF is TOWN! There are very few players I'm willing to risk my own neck to defend, and ASoIaF is one of them.

Now I can understand not wanting to vote rb for instance. Fine. Find yourself another juicy target to vote. Just please leave my top town read alone, at least for today, and let them do their proper scum hunting the way they do it. Thank you.

[Almost50]

I want to lynch you because I think you're scum, not because of your role.

And I will gladly be lynched if it looks like we're getting close to LyLo, bc it's never a good idea to have a PGO/Ascetic/Miller ..etc. to be alive in LyLo because they cannot be confirmed.

But as long as we are NOT even close to LyLo, this isn't (and should not be) of much concern to you or anybody else, bc there will always be a chance some scum will feel desperate or adventurous and actually test my claim, so I'm still a town utility for the time being.

[Almost50]

Does anyone think it is possible that we managed to get all of one of the maf factions?

No we certainly haven't. Last night's kill was on a BP Wulden, which means a STRONGMAN Isolationist exists. We had only 2 Wuldens flip vs 3 Isolationists, so there are also Wuldens alive for sure.

Furthermore, I would expect they both have managed to recruit someone by now, so 2 Isolationists and 3 Wuldens is what I'm thinking, plus the mysterious cult thing.

[Almost50]

So, I see we haven't moved an inch forward in ANY direction. OK.

I've decided to throw in one of those wild theories of mine, and see where it gets us:

What if Rach is Wulden, and she recruited Wake (who started the game as a Northern Tribes Faction member, but was exposure-happy that he literally gave away all possible info he could about himself, just as much as Toog & Expedience did).

Anyway, that would explain the discrepancies in their Mason claim issue (some of which No Retreat pointed out, but there's more). Before I leave, I would like to point out that a Masonry is very unlikely (IMHO) in a game like this, and ESPECIALLY one between members of two different factions 9and 2 different species too).

Alrighty then. Let me make my case:

Does this look like Masons talking to eachother?

So, like I said, I received a message last Night.

Wake could you like just say it? the hinting is not helping and right now we need all we can get to figure this game out.

I am like totally lost here

This game contains an entity called the

Destroyer of Worlds

.

Is that it or did you find out who has that in their role PM Wake?

Is that it or did you find out who has that in their role PM Wake?

All I was told is that there is a singular entity with that name in the game.

If anyone out there receives other important messages during the Night I need you all to share them so I can tell what's going on.

because to me it feels a bit off. It's either Wake made that announcement and didn't get the reaction they wanted so Rach was like injecting a life serum into what would otherwise have been a dead horse, or two people who do NOT share any private PT together in the first place. You don't ask your Mason partner for details in the open when you do have a private PT to share it with them, which makes me think these too did NOT have a PT at the time, but now do.

You do the math and return a verdict.

For now..

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

OK, I'll vote davesaz on faith. I trust (most) of the people voting there, and I have nothing special to keep me from voting him.

VOTE: davesaz

[Almost50]

@TWIE:

Your check returned a RACE, not a FACTION. As we have established that race/location/nation do not necessarily lead to certain factions we have to evaluate other info, and dave claimed and individual "something" that has a "treaty" win con, then he altered his claim when pointed out individuals have "eliminate all threats to your faction" win con.

[Almost50]

OK, I guess there isn't much alternative. My own damn fault for just flippantly answering instead of copy/pasting the redacted version from my PM.

Provided his result wasn't messed with, he got Human for a result.

Geez, man. I REALLY hope you're NOT town-aligned. What "redacted" part of a HUMAN role PM?

[Redacted] only has to do with a FACTIONAL ability, not a personal ability. My PM (Northern Tribes) doesn't have anything to be redacted when I flip. We already say Titus (Western) and BBMolla (Individual Humans) and neither had a redacted part. I suspect the Eastern Kingdom is the same, so you belong to a FIFTH Human Faction (by your own wordings) and thus you are THE Cult!

thank you that is what I needed way


VOTE: Wayward Thinker

Explain, please!

[Almost50]

Wtf why did WT wagon get popular? This is actually freaking me out. Is it happening?

they currently have ONE vote on them by my count!!

[Almost50]

is anyone suspicious of almost50?

just feeling this out

I always find that fucker suspicious.

Trust me.. that won't work. I've got a couple of trump cards held close to my chest still, and you two are far from confirmed no matter how you try to act like you are!

[Almost50]

wake is town jeez

can we move on

No he's not. He WAS before you "Wuldened" him. The 3 remaining Wuldens are YOU, Bacde (whom you returned a fake check result on) and Wake (whom you or Bacde recruited).

This is why they felt the need to push on me now, bc killing me at night results in one of you flipping, and if ANY of you flips all 3 are toast (You & wake claimed Masons, so one flip = the other follows, and if Bacde flips first your check is revealed to have been fake too).

Now the Isolationists know whom to target tonight (actually they have to take a pick), while we are left with THEM to hunt down for the town to win.

[Almost50]

why would a member of the town be "holding trump cards" against other members of the town?

Who says you're town?? You're the Wulden SPY. I was hoping for town to see things w/o me having to say it aloud bc too much info is as harmful as too little info (since info shared in public is for both town and scum to see).

[Almost50]

Updated lynch pool:

Bacde, Wayward T, davesaz, Wake, TWIE, RachMarie

People I won't be lynching: Heartless, Nosferatu, No Retreat, AsoIaF, Expedience, DGB, Toogeloo

That leaves Tim & rb as "circumstantial" lynches, depending on flips and investigation results.

P-edit:

I beg to differ, and the way you, Expedience and Wake (before he got Wuldened) through it all was BAD. Wake was recruited BECAUSE he shared too much. Luna's faction was wiped out because she shared too much.

But anyway, the info I'm willing to share is up there in my read list (if you call that a read list).

[Almost50]

1 - there is a human race check on him
2 - are you scumreading TWIE and his race check? if yes why noone is pressureing/pushing him?
3 - do you think dave is culted after the race check? cuase in that case he won't lie about his old wincon or shit

1- It's by TWIE, another suspect of mine. Furthermore, who say the CULTIST cannot be human?

2- I do. I just don't like starting vanity wagons that are not likely to go anywhere. We have 2 living champions (maybe even 3 if the Individual Humans have one of their own, but at least the two mentioned in Titus' role PM are still out there) and they can take care of suspicious players who are not claimed Human.

3- I'm leaning more on him being the CULTIST with his weird claim and then rewording them. If i wasn't already a declared Northerner and was forced to claim my win con I would have went "Eliminate all threat to my own faction" or something similar, and certainly not mention the Human Treaty or say "readacted". That's weird AND suspicious.

That said, I'm willing to reconsider if dave comes back and answers some of the questions already thrown at him, like his flavour name and his Human Faction (he already claimed Human, so claiming the faction doesn't hurt him anymore).

[Almost50]

I am not wulden neither is Wake and most definitely not bacde

Bacde is undead, that does not prevent him from being in a faction with wulden it just means his race is not wulden.

good grief I am town reading you A 50 but you need to get a grip

So being undead basically precludes me from being on a faction with wulden

this has been established...

it was said in my thread that we are either undead or wulden...

and I'm not wulden...

therefore I'm undead...

Why are you doing this?

To prove you're town you must scum hunt properly, not just throw shade on just about anyone. The game is developed enough for you to make good reads on some players, deduce possible links between others. I can't believe a watcher never got lucky enough to see who killed anyone or even who may have recruited anyone. If you're a TOWN watcher, you should've been targeting your TOWN reads to see if they get visited and if they end up dead tell us who likely killed them. It's the exact opposite of a Tracker (who should target their scum reads to see who they visit and if the target ends up dead).

[Almost50]

Anyway, I'm cutting you some slack for today, and focusing on my other scum reads, but if you don't start bringing something to the table I'm afraid you'd be eating up on the rest of your credit.

[Almost50]

@No Retreat:

Any of the top 3 is a good vig shot IMHO.

[Almost50]

Any of the top 3 is a good vig shot IMHO.

So not Exp and DGB?

Well, you asked for "preference", so I prefer one of the top 3 because I'm more suspicious of them over the bottom 2.

[Almost50]

@people more involved than me: likelihood that there's another redirector/bus driver role extant in the game?

I suspect there might be one still alive, and if you received a different result to one that has been declared it's as likely you got redirected as it is the other guy was!

[Almost50]

I'm starting to lose track of things due to the elongated time on this day in particular. Would someone be kind enough to remind me who checked dave's race?

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

Wait a minute! We started the game with EIGHT Race Cops?? And 5 of them are still alive in D4? What's stopping you guys from outing all your results? 5 Cops * 3 checks = 15 results. Even with the overlap and deaths we should have like 10 results at least!

[Almost50]

Unless I got seriously mixed up, I have it on my notes that Rach, Nos, TWIE, and dave himself are Race Cops, and now you're telling me WT is one too. We had Kuroi, dram and SS flipping with that role too.

[Almost50]

@dave:

I believe everyone is a Nation OR Location checker, but w/e.

VOTE: WT