Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

Korts · Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:07 am

/brainzzzz....

On a side note, I'm in Europe, and still in school most days, so possibly gonna be late with any replies.

Korts · Post Post #16 (isolation #1) » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:43 am

har can we says?

Korts · Post Post #19 (isolation #2) » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:27 am

Elias_the_thief wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:santa watchers?
i agree.

qft

Korts · Post Post #25 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:46 am

Meh.

Vote: CES

for impersonating an Authority wit da big A.

Korts · Post Post #34 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:41 am

Hey,

Vote: jerubbaal

because he apparently picks on good players.

Korts · Post Post #39 (isolation #5) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:17 am

jerubbaal wrote:Good players? Looks like he's only good as scum, to me.

Good at something, at least, then. Still.

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
jerubbaal wrote: Good players? Looks like he's only good as scum, to me.
Well, he's voting me, which is obviously not good, so I'm pretty sure he's town.

sounds reasonable.

Korts · Post Post #40 (isolation #6) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:18 am

lovo14 wrote:
vote elias
aparantly hes a thief. criminals are bad

unvote, vote: elias da thief

. You convinced me. Lynch all criminals, isn't that the point anyway?

Korts · Post Post #42 (isolation #7) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:02 am

hey, just noticed. nice PR, SensFan.

Korts · Post Post #44 (isolation #8) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:04 am

Uh, question. Do PRs last for the whole game?

Korts · Post Post #80 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:31 pm

Well, let's think of what the PR would have to look like.

* You can mime.
* You can vote for single letters.
* You can't vote for anything longer than a single letter, unless it's a real player.

I can accept having to mime as a possible post restriction.

Having to spell out your words with votes is a bit less believable; it's really annoying, and I don't see why it would allow single letters but not whole words.

Being able to do both is just plain silly. I can't imagine any mod giving a post restriction that lets you choose from two, equally nonrestrictive, means of expression. I also can't imagine why you would start out using the more annoying form (repeated votes) if mime was an option.

In short, even if I believed that there might be a post restriction in a mini normal, the specific restriction you have claimed is totally incredible. Since a protown player wouldn't have any reason to fake a post restriction, you must be scum.

Still, cool PR, faked or not. If faked, I think we have no doubt SensFan's scum. If not, that still could mean he's scum, or am I wrong? I've never played with a PR before, so do tell me, does having a PR mean you're definitely town?

Korts · Post Post #90 (isolation #10) » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:39 am

Well, now that you've stated that he's in trouble big time if he's faking, he just won't stop faking it. So we're back at square one. Also, I had a question, not really important, just cos I never played with a PR before. Does having a PR have anything to do with alignment?

Korts · Post Post #91 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:44 am

One thing to add:

I wrote: Does having a PR have anything to do with alignment?

Cos if it don't, scum wouldn't gain much--or anything--by faking it. Just thinking.

Korts · Post Post #96 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:28 am

Real annoying. So you can only describe your physical actions, as it were.

Korts · Post Post #101 (isolation #13) » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:53 am

Speaking of which, CESc, I assume that you are in fact lying through your teeth. If you really think that townies fake post restrictions all the time, though, please provide an example so I can take you off my list of people to lynch tomorrow.

Tomorrow? Are you sure you wanna lynch SensFan just because he has or is possibly faking a very bad PR? I think that's scummy, to say the least.

unvote; vote: Xyl

Korts · Post Post #102 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:56 am

And the emphasis is on possibly. It's not likely, in my opinion. I, for one, would be too lazy to fake a PR as ridiculous as this. I mean, this is pure art! It takes five minutes for a short sentence. If he's faking it, he's good. I mean

good

. And full of horseshit, the idiot.

Korts · Post Post #120 (isolation #15) » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:16 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Korts wrote:And the emphasis is on possibly. It's not likely, in my opinion. I, for one, would be too lazy to fake a PR as ridiculous as this. I mean, this is pure art! It takes five minutes for a short sentence. If he's faking it, he's good. I mean
good
. And full of horseshit, the idiot.
Hmm.. I don't really understand what you're trying to say here, but if SF
does
indeed have the posting restriction, what do you think his alignment is? And what do you think right now (with wether he's got a pr or not still unknown)?

I'm trying to say that I'm, for now, convinced that he's not faking. I admit that there's a fair possibility that he is, but I don't think so, at the moment. My point was that the nature of the PR--being only able to communicate in votes of a single letter, makes it too difficult to fake. Indeed, faking it would get tiresome and annoying to SF soon, so if he's faking it he's bound to stop anytime in the near future. This is why I'm convinced that he isn't faking. It's just too fiddly, if he could just choose to speak normally. About the alignment, I don't have any feelings yet. Possibly townie, although he hasn't yet contributed, which can be because we were questioning him about his PR.

Korts · Post Post #121 (isolation #16) » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:24 am

Xylthixlm wrote:
Korts wrote:Tomorrow? Are you sure you wanna lynch SensFan just because he has or is possibly faking a very bad PR? I think that's scummy, to say the least.
Chance that he is faking: High.
Chance that he is scum if he is faking: Very high.
Chance that he will be helpful if he is not faking: Low.
Benefit of lynching him compared to any other player: High.

If he's pro-town, it doesn't matter if he contributes pages worth of suspicions or not. If we lynch him and he's town, it'll still be a step towards losing the game, whether or not he's helpful. I think we need to move on.

Korts · Post Post #127 (isolation #17) » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:58 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Korts wrote:I'm trying to say that I'm, for now, convinced that he's not faking. I admit that there's a fair possibility that he is, but I don't think so, at the moment. My point was that the nature of the PR--being only able to communicate in votes of a single letter, makes it too difficult to fake. Indeed, faking it would get tiresome and annoying to SF soon, so if he's faking it he's bound to stop anytime in the near future. This is why I'm convinced that he isn't faking. It's just too fiddly, if he could just choose to speak normally. About the alignment, I don't have any feelings yet. Possibly townie, although he hasn't yet contributed, which can be because we were questioning him about his PR.
Wow.. This post is really wishy washy.

Also, you're convinced he's not faking because if he was, he's stop doing so in the near future?

If you're gifted with the ability to see the future, please say so. It might be a very helpful tool winning this game.

Geez, how can I say it? I think he isn't faking, because no-one who has any sense would voluntarily communicate in votes of single letters. If he wanted to fake a PR, he could've thought up an easier one.

Korts · Post Post #128 (isolation #18) » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:59 am

And I do have to agree with SF, it can't really be proven, can it?

Korts · Post Post #129 (isolation #19) » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:06 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote: I was assuming you were trying to get SensFan to admit it's fake. It never crossed my mind that you could actually believe that he might be faking but still town.
I don't get it. You thought I wanted SensFan to admit it was fake, which, because you didn't believe a townies would fake a PR, would catch us a scum, yet you think it's a point against me? I'm not completely following you here.

CESc has a point. I mean, what you're trying to say is you thought CESc was asking SF to admit to being scum? Cos in your opinion, as far as I gather, faking a PR can only mean that he's scum, so if he admits to faking, he admits to being scum. And you really thought that SF would admit to faking if he was scum? Great idea! Hey all you scum, raise your hands, please!

Korts · Post Post #141 (isolation #20) » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:13 pm

So now we need to wait for a possible counterclaim.

Korts · Post Post #144 (isolation #21) » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:42 am

Or he's cop and wants to get to investigate this night. Maybe.

Korts · Post Post #151 (isolation #22) » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:15 am

Alright, the mod got confused, yeah. I'm still against an SF lynch. I mean, we don't know what Khel's original post was, so we can't know anything. You're pushing SF's wagon too hard, I think.

Confirm Vote: Xyl; MFoS: Cogito Ergo Scum

Korts · Post Post #163 (isolation #23) » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:17 am

Xyl wrote: Korts: Says that if SensFan's PR is faked, he's obviously scum. Doubletalks about whether it's possibly faked. Opposes SensFan lynch on the basis that he might be protown (newbie scum seem to make this argument a lot). Suggests a counter of SensFan's cop claim, which would expose the real cop for a nightkill. Overall, very scummy. FOS: Korts

How's not agreeing with you scummy? You know, you're right that a counterclaim would do us no good, but lynching the claimed cop doesn't give him even a chance to prove his claim. I know I did ask whether we should wait for a counterclaim, but I didn't think about the consequences. Sorry, my bad. If we don't lynch SF, he might be NK-ed, but if he isn't, he's scum, as far as I'm concerned. I dunno really, I may be newbie, but if he's town and we lynch him, it's still a step towards losing regardless of his contribution. And I just don't understand the doubletalk comment.

Likewise, Xyl, my top suspect is you, followed by CESc: your reasons amount to "SF can't say anything of value, so let's get rid of him, and anyway he's faking until he proves otherwise" which in my opinion is probably impossible to prove. I'm keeping the vote for now.

About the lurkers, however, I agree.

mod: please do prod or replace Joubert, matimafia and theopor_COD

And lovo seems to be lurking in plain sight, to me.

Korts · Post Post #170 (isolation #24) » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:58 am

Xyl wrote: Here you take both sides of the issue. You say you're convinced isn't, but if it turns out that he is, you can come back later and say "Oh, but I admitted there's a possibility that he is". That tells me that you don't really believe what you're saying, and want some insurance.

All I was trying to say is that I'm not a hundred percent sure, just pretty convinced. Nothing wrong in being politically correct, is there?

Xyl wrote:

Likewise, Xyl, my top suspect is you, followed by CESc: your reasons amount to "SF can't say anything of value, so let's get rid of him, and anyway he's faking until he proves otherwise" which in my opinion is probably impossible to prove.

This is most definitely not my position. My position is that he could say things of value, but doesn't. If you're going to try to paint me as scummy for something I said, at least do it for something I actually said.

I'm glad if that's not your position, but if you'd like the quotes that made me think that, so be it:

well this isn't exactly it yet, but still a bit scummy in my read:

Xyl wrote: CESc admits to lying --> null tell. (There's a reason for a townie to do it, but I oppose lying in general.)
CESc doesn't admit to lying, doesn't provide evidence --> scum tell.
CESc doesn't admit to lying, provides evidence --> I get confused.

getting closer:

Xyl wrote: Chance that he is faking: High.
Chance that he is scum if he is faking: Very high.
Chance that he will be helpful if he is not faking: Low.
Benefit of lynching him compared to any other player: High.

well, maybe you're right and I was wrong. But still, those last two quotes are pretty under the belt for SF, if not scummy. Maybe it was CESc after all who wanted to lynch cos he wouldn't say anything valuable to us.

What you haven't answered:

how can he prove the PR?

Korts · Post Post #173 (isolation #25) » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:43 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
ting =) wrote:How is lynching SensFan helpful to town? As far as I can tell, that's nothing more than a OMGPRS lynch. Yes, it's annoying, but he hasn't actually done anything scummy unless you can prove he's actually faking his PR.
But how would he be able to do something scummy at all with this PR? Other than using his vote, he can hardly do anything producive for the town. And since such a PR is very rare in a mini normal, I'd rather say he's faking his PR unless we can prove he's actually not.

looks like I'm wrong again, Xyl... That was CESc too. Sorry.

unvote: Xyl

Korts · Post Post #174 (isolation #26) » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:45 am

I'm a bit confused now...

Korts · Post Post #200 (isolation #27) » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:25 am

CESc wrote: Too bad Xyl already made the Jester analogy, because I would've. Really, just because one is almost definitely scum, you think they're townies trying to mess with the town? That's quite possibly one of the worst arguments I've heard. And even if he'd be sabotaging this much, we'd be better off lynching him asap anyway.

What points to SF being almost definitely scum? I just can't agree with you. It looks like he has a PR. There's no point in arguing about that, he's either faking or he isn't. There's no way to prove either. What you're saying is he's definitely scum, because he has a PR? QED? That's just shitlogic.

CESc wrote:
Joubert wrote: OR... Simply ignore SensFan for now, find other trails and the real Cop (if there's one) can investigate him during the Night. That's another possibility...
The real cop already knows SF is scum. You're trying to get your partner to live for another day, and get a cop investigation wasted while you're at it?

And now you're pointing fingers 'cause Joubert's not agreeing about SF being almost definitely scum? No way to be sure of SF's alignment, PR or not, except for scum themselves, and if you're one of them, I'd understand why you would make the case that took the least effort. Shit, man, Cop may be the obvious therefore most idiotic claim for Day 1, but if he is Cop, what should he do?

Vote: Cogito Ergo Scum

Korts · Post Post #202 (isolation #28) » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:09 am

CESc wrote: Again, you're completely misrepresenting me. I'm not pointing fingers because he doesn't agree SF is almost definitely scum, I'm pointing fingers because of the plan he proposed, because it has some obvious flaws:
1. If there is another (real) cop, that cop knows for sure that SF is scum -> If there is a real cop, it would be a waste for that cop to investigate SF.
2. Simply 'ignoring' someone because you're not completely sure that person is scum is simply bad. Why the hell would you want to ignore someone?
Also, from Joubert's wording, it seems he knows that SF is not a cop.

Yeah, alright, so I may have misunderstood that part. Now I thought it over again, you're right that that plan wouldn't work, cos if SF's claim is true, he himself is the cop, and if he's lying, he is probably scum or a townie sabotaging the game. So that does cast some suspicion on Joubert.

But what I meant, and I think it wasn't difficult to see what I meant, was that you were saying basically that SF is almost definitely scum, 'cause he's likely faking. I don't see why having a PR is so unreasonable in a mini normal. Of course I haven't played much at all, so you know best.

About Joubert's wording, I have to say that you're also very sure SF is guilty.

Korts · Post Post #210 (isolation #29) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:29 am

@jerubbaal: well lynch SF, then. But I'm not gonna vote for him. Not until there's a better reason than a shitty PR and a claim that can go either way.

Korts · Post Post #211 (isolation #30) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:29 am

Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.

Korts · Post Post #214 (isolation #31) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:24 pm

Xyl wrote:
Korts, I have a question for you: Who do you think is more likely to be scum than SensFan?

I am betting on CESc. He's very intent on an SF lynch. Anyway, I'm drunk as of now, so more reasons later.

Elias wrote:
Korts wrote: Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.
that was clarified and doesnt actually prove anything.

I quite agree. That was my point. That it

doesn't

mean anything, contrary to what CESc says.

Korts · Post Post #216 (isolation #32) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:28 pm

You are still completely ignoring the argument that he is not acting protown.

What does "acting protown" constitute to you? How would you contribute with a PR he supposedly has? Do elaborate.

Korts · Post Post #218 (isolation #33) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:31 pm

ah. i guess im guilty of skimming, i had read your previous post only up to where you say "then lynch him" and thought you were urging jer. to vote him. My bad.

No problemo.

Korts · Post Post #222 (isolation #34) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:24 pm

lovo14 wrote: the only prob with this is that the REAL cop if it isnt sf hasnt came forward. true its day 1 doesnt wanna be put out there. but there would surely be a doc out there to protect him on the counter claim if need be

unvote vote Cogito Ergo Scum you are pushing the sf pr way to hard you have nothing to go on that he is being scummy except you thinking he is faking a pr

On the other hand, I think lovo is kinda echoing what I had already said before his post. That seems a bit suspicious, although if he's scum, I don't understand why he didn't jump on the SF wagon rather than siding with him.

Korts · Post Post #224 (isolation #35) » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:47 pm

Xylthixlm wrote:Korts, why aren't you considering the possibility that lovo and SensFan are scumbuddies?

You know, that hadn't occured to me. You could be right.

unvote: CESc

for now.

Korts · Post Post #226 (isolation #36) » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:19 am

CESc wrote: That said, if you have any other reasons, like you said, please state them.

Well, basically, the single-mindedness is what makes me suspicious of you.

Post 150:

CESc wrote: Less talk, more lynch, please. SF is at L-2.

Post 137 not so much, but yeah:

CESc wrote: I, too, am all for an SF lynch, but I'd rather wait until everyone has had a chance to check in and give his/her opinion before we end the day.

And even after the mod explained the "incriminating" post, you still say it's a valid scumtell and points to SF lying.

Korts, your suspicion of me and lovo is completely based on the assumption of SF being town.

Actually, no. Only my suspicion of

you

is. Lovo's reaction only confuses me if he's scum and SF is town. Lovo's actions are much more of a scumtell if SF is scum, what with defending him and echoing me when I questioned you.

Korts · Post Post #231 (isolation #37) » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:11 am

unvote: Cogito Ergo Scum

guess I shouldn't have abbreaviated.

Korts · Post Post #243 (isolation #38) » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:07 am

We seem to have slowed down.

Korts · Post Post #244 (isolation #39) » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:09 am

Also, woelrat seems to be lurking, he hasn't posted for a while. I'm lazy to check, but I seem to remember 3 or 4 post altogether from him.

Korts · Post Post #245 (isolation #40) » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:13 am

Alright, so I wasn't so lazy after all. He wrote three posts, including the confirm.

mod: could woelrat be prodded?

Also, sorry for the three consecutive posts.

Korts · Post Post #254 (isolation #41) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:10 am

@SensFan: um, if you were already voting for Elias (see bottom of page ten), why'd you feel the need to unvote and vote him again?

Korts · Post Post #270 (isolation #42) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:53 am

Replacements, good.

@SensFan: could you answer why you unvoted and voted for Elias now three times in a row, when you already had your vote on him? Another: I agree with Cavebear, quoting his post would make contribution easier on you.

About keeping SF alive, I agree with you, Shanba. Nothing to add, you wrote it all pretty much down.

Korts · Post Post #275 (isolation #43) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:03 am

Elias_the_thief wrote:
Korts wrote:
@SensFan: could you answer why you unvoted and voted for Elias now three times in a row, when you already had your vote on him? Another: I agree with Cavebear, quoting his post would make contribution easier on you.
hes been unvoting and voting letters to spell out messages to me.

You mean like

secret

messages? Or the things like "doesn't need to" (post 267) or "good posting" (post 260)? Why'd he need to unvote then? Khel already said he won't count single letters as votes for the person whose name starts with that letter. Do explain, please.

Korts · Post Post #276 (isolation #44) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:05 am

Elias_the_thief wrote:
Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Yay, replacements!

I must say I quite agree with what Shanba says, in the sense that, would SF be mafia, he'd likely be a goon/gf (which is the trend in mini normals) and that means it isn't very harmful if we keep him alive. I once before played a game where we kept a known mafia goon alive on purpose, and that turned out to be quite a good play. If SF keeps contributing, and he seems to be doing that quite a lot better lately, I guess I'm okay with keeping him alive. Still think he's scum, though.
Why would you want to keep him alive if you think hes scum.
1) the idea is to catch scum, and if we KNOW hes scum it gives as more info about who else is scum
2) it delays LYLO if we kill him now

Whatever situation in which you kept a goon alive before, I doubt it was like this.

But there's no actual harm in giving him another day. If he's really the cop, shouldn't we let him have at least the first night to investigate?

Korts · Post Post #281 (isolation #45) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:33 am

@xyl, I'm sorry if that sounded like an accusation, I was just merely pointing out that there was no point in unvoting and revoting if the supposed issue was voting letters. Just curious.

Korts · Post Post #282 (isolation #46) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:36 am

SensFan wrote:
Elias_the_thief wrote:he is under the impression that he has to revote afterwards.
Cavebear wrote:This (the above quote or, if any parts are
formatted like this
, those parts) is true.

Cavebear wrote:Want us to get a couple of good phrases down for you to quote?
Cavebear wrote:Yes, that would work.

Right, Elias, sorry. On the other hand, seems like cavebear's idea is working.

Korts · Post Post #284 (isolation #47) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:48 am

Xylthixlm wrote:
Korts wrote:@xyl, I'm sorry if that sounded like an accusation, I was just merely pointing out that there was no point in unvoting and revoting if the supposed issue was voting letters. Just curious.
Why would you even raise the
possibility
of secret messages unless you think that SensFan and Elias_the_Thief might be scum together? It sure looks like an attempt to cast suspicion to me.

I wasn't trying to say anything like that. What I don't understand is why, in his first reply he said this:

Elias wrote:hes been unvoting and voting letters to spell out messages to me.

Instead, he could have just said then what he just said now:

Elias wrote:I think he is under the impression that he has to revote afterwards.

I'm aware that any such "secret messages", if there had been any, would be kind of apparent to everyone else as well, not just Elias. I was just confused by the first quote. A bit of an awkward sentence. If I thought they were scum both, I'd have said so.

Korts · Post Post #291 (isolation #48) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:35 am

Joubert wrote:
And his suggestion for another cop to investigate sens is just bad, though I'm inclined to put that down to bad game theory rather than malicious intent.
Mah, this is too easy. IF there's "another" Cop (we should call him the "real" Cop), him investigating the claimed Cop could reveal useful. And in the same post, Shaka says SensFan could be the Cop, so let's not lynch him at all. Lacks subtlety...

And I get voted on for I-don't-know-what-reason in a 8-hour time span...

Vote: Joubert

The "real" cop would be wasting an investigation on SF. He'd practically be confirmed scum. All the cop would have to do is come forward with the results of last night, and SF would be screwed. On the other hand, I advise the real cop, if it isn't SF, to keep his investigation to himself unless he has at least a guilty. Until then, SF would have a false sense of security and would be more likely to trip up even without the counterclaim. Shanba says SF could be the cop, so let's not lynch him

until we can be sure he's not

. Lacks subtlety, sure. Do you? Heck yeah.

Korts · Post Post #292 (isolation #49) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:38 am

Having reread that, sorry for being so wishy-washy. I guess that's my style...

Korts · Post Post #312 (isolation #50) » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:55 am

Elias, that isn't a PM from the mod, it's a quote from Xylthixlm (think I got it right) from earlier on in the game.

Korts · Post Post #313 (isolation #51) » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:56 am

And the other's from the list of rules.

Korts · Post Post #315 (isolation #52) » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:09 am

Elias, see post 79. There it is.

Korts · Post Post #324 (isolation #53) » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:07 am

Joubert wrote:
Korts wrote:The "real" cop would be wasting an investigation on SF. He'd practically be confirmed scum. All the cop would have to do is come forward with the results of last night, and SF would be screwed. On the other hand, I advise the real cop, if it isn't SF, to keep his investigation to himself unless he has at least a guilty. Until then, SF would have a false sense of security and would be more likely to trip up even without the counterclaim. Shanba says SF could be the cop, so let's not lynch him until we can be sure he's not.

But if he's actually Scum, then the Cop coming forward is exactly what he'd want. We don't need the Cop to get out in the light for him. The Cop must hide as long as possible to get as much info as possible before he's targeted, that's obvious. You agree with much of what I said anyways, that's why I find it strange that you voted me in the same post...

SensFan looks anything but convincing, PR included. He talks normally with one-line, one-letter bolded votes, but he can also quote as usual and he votes as usual also. It doesn't look serious...

Vote: SensFan
, to make my vote reflect my thought...

Cavebear doesn't look too serious either with his direct vote only because, according to him, I don't post enough. A FoS would have been borderline, but a full vote is exagerated. Here:

FoS: Cavebear with a toothache

About the bolded part, a few pages ago you were intent on the "real" cop investigating SF and confirming his guiltiness, now you say we shouldn't let SF attract a counterclaim. Inconsistent, as it were.

My vote for you: I didn't actually agree with you. I said that the "real" cop, if it isn't SF, shouldn't investigate SF, because he'd be wasting an investigation, since if he comes forward with results anytime, SF is confirmed scum anyway. Now,

you

said that the "real" cop

should

investigate SF. I think it was a deliberate mistake, to make the possible "real" cop waste an investigation. That's my reason.

Korts · Post Post #334 (isolation #54) » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:31 am

I'm sorry, but I don't see lynching SF as a pro-town cause. We may be wasting valuable information from his N1 investigation, if he hasn't been lying. I, for one, would like to hear what he has to say to us tomorrow, even if we have to decide whether to believe him or not. He hasn't been useless so far, and I think if he really is the cop, we should let him contribute. If he isn't cop, he'll slip up anyway.

Korts · Post Post #337 (isolation #55) » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:26 am

Xylthixlm wrote:
Korts wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't see lynching SF as a pro-town cause. We may be wasting valuable information from his N1 investigation, if he hasn't been lying. I, for one, would like to hear what he has to say to us tomorrow, even if we have to decide whether to believe him or not. He hasn't been useless so far, and I think if he really is the cop, we should let him contribute. If he isn't cop, he'll slip up anyway.
If you don't want to lynch SensFan, why don't I see you pushing a case on someone else?

I am pushing--well, not pushing so much, more nudging--a case on Joubert. My vote's already on him, and I have stated my reasons, pretty much.

Korts · Post Post #353 (isolation #56) » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:38 am

Just restating my reasons for the vote on Joubert:

Joubert wrote: OR... Simply ignore SensFan for now, find other trails and the real Cop (if there's one) can investigate him during the Night. That's another possibility...

Joubert wrote: Mah, this is too easy. IF there's "another" Cop (we should call him the "real" Cop), him investigating the claimed Cop could reveal useful. And in the same post, Shaka says SensFan could be the Cop, so let's not lynch him at all. Lacks subtlety...

And this is an obviously flawed plan, as has been already pointed out. And, several posts later, he's coming up with this:

Joubert wrote: But if he's actually Scum, then the Cop coming forward is exactly what he'd want. We don't need the Cop to get out in the light for him. The Cop must hide as long as possible to get as much info as possible before he's targeted, that's obvious. You agree with much of what I said anyways, that's why I find it strange that you voted me in the same post...

And this is a direct contradiction to what he said in the first two quotes. My suspicion is based on the fact that he didn't say alright, I was wrong, but rather tried to make it look like there was no contradiction.

Joubert wrote: Korts, there's a difference between investigating and claiming. You're right when you say I did suggest that the real Cop investigate SF, but I don't think I used the word "should". I said he could do it, and not counter-claim, and I'm pretty sure everyone agrees with that, including you...

If he's saying here that he was only saying that the "real" cop investigating SF is a possibility, it makes me feel like he was trying to plant the idea of investigating SF.

Joubert wrote: Nice work, Cavebear, now you are definitely getting in the way of the Town. I'd swear it was staged...

I don't think this post needs explaining.

On another note, I'd like to bring up the previous case of lovo, which disappeared a bit prematurely, imo. The basic facts are that he echoed previously stated opinions, didn't contribute much as far as I saw, and is lurking quite a bit.

Korts · Post Post #355 (isolation #57) » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:11 am

@Shanba, I just felt the discussion was slowing down.

Korts · Post Post #368 (isolation #58) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:00 am

Now to see who's willing to hammer. Might prove interesting.

Yeah, like it's out of the question that scum are already voting for him, having seen the easy kill. I'm not voting him.

Korts · Post Post #371 (isolation #59) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:30 am

No, I'm saying that either way, scum could already be on the wagon.

Korts · Post Post #377 (isolation #60) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:59 pm

@Cavebear: I'm all for either a lovo or a Joubert wagon. If you want a lovo wagon, I'm with you.

unvote, vote: lovo14

Korts · Post Post #380 (isolation #61) » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:38 pm

Xylthixlm wrote:
Korts wrote:No, I'm saying that either way, scum could already be on the wagon.
In that case, I fail to see the logical connection between "Yeah, like it's out of the question that scum are already voting for him, having seen the easy kill." and "I'm not voting him."

The logic goes somewhat like this: if he's town, therefore very likely cop, it is more than probable that scum are already on his wagon. Therefore we learn nothing from the hammer or who voted him. If he's scum, therefore... well, therefore scum, it is more than probable that once his scumbuddies saw the pressure building up on him, they thought it would be wisest to throw him under the bus and live to die another day. Therefore, again, we learn nothing from the hammer or who voted him. Therefore, I'm against his lynch unless we have more to go on than a possibly faked PR, little contribution, and a premature, unwarranted claim.

Korts · Post Post #392 (isolation #62) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:49 am

Can't think clear now, holding position. Will come back and post more.

Korts · Post Post #397 (isolation #63) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:09 am

With clear head, I still see no point in adding much more. Vote stays.

Korts · Post Post #409 (isolation #64) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:07 am

Uhh, my point in starting a lovo wagon was to change his playstyle and get some contribution, not to lynch him. Great job, Joubert. You're top of the list.

Korts · Post Post #413 (isolation #65) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:23 am

Lynch me, then.

Korts · Post Post #422 (isolation #66) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:56 am

Actually, lovo, I'm a little surprised by your claim. I mean, you must be telling the truth, no need to lie anymore, so I'm not saying I doubt you, just, you know, surprised.

Korts · Post Post #426 (isolation #67) » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:32 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
@ Korst:
Are you a roleblocker too?

Sorry, shouldn't have said that.

Korts · Post Post #446 (isolation #68) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:11 am

Yeah, I'm roleblocker too. I blocked CESc, so Elias wasn't blocked.

Korts · Post Post #448 (isolation #69) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:03 am

Great, so CESc wasn't blocked, so Elias was.

Korts · Post Post #452 (isolation #70) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:09 am

Also, this brings up the credibility of SF's claim. with so many roleblockers, will town have a cop at all?

And an offtopic question: what's with all these nibblers all of a sudden?

Korts · Post Post #468 (isolation #71) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:53 am

At the moment, I'm inclined not to believe SF's claim, and I also doubt the PR. Yeah, go ahead and point out that I was the one who believed him Day 1. Please.

Korts · Post Post #478 (isolation #72) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:19 pm

@Joubert: the one making a night kill is always at the beginning of the chain (in the example, the mafia goon). After that, the one blocking the goon is always E. The one blocking E is always D. the one blocking D is always C. The one blocking C is always B. And the one blocking B is always A. Do you see now? Also, read Post 1. It's all there.

Korts · Post Post #481 (isolation #73) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:27 pm

The plan also works most probably if the mafia have an RB, because the mafia RB will be paired with someone else too, and if he tries to block anyone else than his partner, he will be blocked.

Also, I think it's possible that the mafia is all-RB too. Or are they too overpowered that way?

Korts · Post Post #482 (isolation #74) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:29 pm

Yeah, been ninja'd. Cavebear's saying just what I was trying to.

Korts · Post Post #486 (isolation #75) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:52 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:Okay, so this should be easy.

Xyl blocks jerubbaal and vice-versa.
Joubert blocks Korts and vice-versa.
Imat blocks Shanba and vice-versa.
ting blocks Cavebear with a Toothache and vice-versa.
I will not submit an action.
We will lynch SF after he reveals his result.

Vote: CESc[/]. I think it's highly suspicious that he left

himself

without a pair, effectively making sure he won't get blocked.

Korts · Post Post #488 (isolation #76) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:38 am

Sorry, EBWOP:

Vote: CESc

I think no single person should decide who should be left unpaired. How about an unofficial vote or something to decide? I propose Xyl.

Korts · Post Post #490 (isolation #77) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:58 am

Also, didn't have the energy to read through Cavebear's last post earlier, but now I've run through it, I have to say, I agree completely. But for now, my vote stays on CESc. At least until he reacts.

Korts · Post Post #491 (isolation #78) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:59 am

Joubert wrote:Anyone would be WIFOM, unless we throw a dice...

If we vote for the one we find the least scummy, the chances are we leave a town player without a pair. Do you have any better idea?

Korts · Post Post #510 (isolation #79) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:42 am

jerubbaal wrote:Actually, we need Shanba here or a replacement before we can move forward with anything. If we have someone who's inactive, they obviously can't RB.

QFT, fair point.

about me being left unpaired, it makes me go all wobbly inside to have everyone trust me so much, but I'd rather we voted.

Korts · Post Post #512 (isolation #80) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:13 am

Right, if we lynch Joubert and he's town, we'll probably be in or near lylo. But by lynching him, we get to know whether SF is the real cop, and can carry on with the plan to pair RBs, now without the question of SF's honesty. If he's the real cop, we'll be having him investigate every night, while the nightkill is blocked. If he's scum, he'll be lynched D3, and even though we'll be in or near lylo, we can very probably stop any further nightkills.

By the way,

unvote

, I guess it was an overreaction to vote CESc right away for that.

Korts · Post Post #518 (isolation #81) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:14 am

OK, so I may be slow, but SF? WTF? Is it jerubbaal, or Joubert that you investigated?

Korts · Post Post #521 (isolation #82) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:43 am

Alright, then.

vote: Jeru

Korts · Post Post #527 (isolation #83) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:04 am

SensFan wrote:
SensFan wrote:
Vote: B
Vote: A
Vote: H

Vote: G
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: F
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: Y

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E

Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: R

Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: S

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

Before someone asks, I think SF's post 526 is just to emphasise that he has made this kind of mistake before, not to say that he investigated Joubert and not jerubbaal. Am I right, SF?

Korts · Post Post #530 (isolation #84) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:09 am

Apart from Shanba, everyone's checked in. I think we should get to pairing. I'm against using CESc's pairs, because if he's scum, he'd naturally try to pair himself with his one of his partners.

Korts · Post Post #531 (isolation #85) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:10 am

I'm willing to be paired up with CESc, because I find him suspicious for his pairing post.

Korts · Post Post #533 (isolation #86) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:12 am

jerubbaal wrote:Yes, I'm pissed, because several of you idiots just jumped onboard immediately after SF claimed guilty on me. I think we've already proved that this town is prone to quicklynches. Stop being stupid and actually consider the situation here. You have absolutely no halfway decent reason to trust SF here. He's a scum, trying to get one townie lynch out of his crappy day 1 claim, which he somehow avoided getting lynched for despite the stupid, impossible PR IN A MINI-NORMAL. If you follow him to my lynch today, and the scum manage to get a kill in tonight, you go to lylo, and even though you get SF, you still have to hit scum twice in a row. Even if you manage to lock the NK down, your chances of winning this game are extremely slim, especially with the analytical "prowess" of this town. I don't trust you guys to win this when I'm gone, and this should be a game that we have no trouble winning. Yes, I'm pissed because you are all so willing to punt this. You punted day 1, now you're busily working at punting day 2.

We're not trusting SF. We want to find out if he's telling the truth. I'm fairly confident we can successfully block the NK. If you would be town, you'd realize your lynch is for the greater good.

Korts · Post Post #538 (isolation #87) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:37 am

Well, everyone's checked in. I think it's important, first, to see how many of us support following SF's result and lynching jerub. Please, don't express your support of this plan by voting, we still have to get the pairing done after we agreed on this.

Korts · Post Post #539 (isolation #88) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:38 am

In accordance with this, I'm going to

unvote

for now.

Korts · Post Post #543 (isolation #89) » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:13 pm

jerubbaal wrote: All you are doing is playing so that, if SF is cop, we win, if SF is scum, we lose.

NO. You're deliberately misinterpreting us. If SF is scum, we may be closer to losing, but by pairing, we still have a better chance than scum. If he's cop, well naturally we win then.

Jerubbaal, we're going to lynch you anyway, although now that you act like thrashing scum, I have all the more reason to vote for you when we've agreed on other business.

Korts · Post Post #549 (isolation #90) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:07 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
SensFan wrote:
Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:I'm pretty sure Jerub is town.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y
Metagaming.

As in?

Korts · Post Post #550 (isolation #91) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:09 am

Joubert wrote:What makes me uncomfortable is the possibility that SF could be Scum even if Jerub turned up Scum. Basically, we are confronted with: we lynch Jerub to find out SF's identity VS we kill SF immediately because his PR doesn't make sense...

And what would SF gain, if he's scum, by getting his partner lynched? He'd get a nightkill, yeah, but town wouldn't be any closer to losing.

Korts · Post Post #553 (isolation #92) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:39 am

SensFan wrote:
Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:I'd rather lynch SF to verify his result than lynch Jerubbaal to lynch SF's result.

Vote: A
Vote: N
Vote: D

Vote: R
Vote: I
Vote: S
Vote: K

Vote: L
Vote: O
Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: N
Vote: G

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: P

What SF said. By lynching jerubbaal we confirm SF as either scum or cop, but by lynching SF we possibly lose a way to win this game. I dunno if that's understandable to you.

Korts · Post Post #554 (isolation #93) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:43 am

Yeah, that sounds a bit off.

We have 50% chance of SF being cop. If we lynch jerubbaal, we confirm him. 50% says we have the game in the bag. 50% says we have a difficult time.

If we lynch SF, on the other hand, we won't have any further use of him if he's cop, and we have a 100% chance of a difficult time.

I'd go with the easier way, if you don't mind.

Also, could you provide a link to the cited game?

Korts · Post Post #559 (isolation #94) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:04 am

Joubert wrote:
And what would SF gain, if he's scum, by getting his partner lynched? He'd get a nightkill, yeah, but town wouldn't be any closer to losing.
Because of that strategy discussed earlier. If SF is trusted, he will look for Scum while the others roleblock in pairs. But if he turns up Scum, he could mislead the Town any way he pleases. And now, we have CES' other point, which has to be weighted like anything else. Although I don't like metagaming very much, it's still another marble in the scale...

SF would only be able to mislead the town for a single day, because he'd be the one unpaired. The best way is to trust his results for this day, and if a nightkill happens even with the pairing, we lynch SF.

Korts · Post Post #566 (isolation #95) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:58 am

About the pairings. I'm very uncomfortable with a jerubbaal-Cogito Ergo Scum pair. CESc is overly defending jeru, and I got the feeling that he was agreeing with following SF up to the point that jeru started shouting. Beyond that, when CESc made his pairs, jerubbaal immediately chimed in, agreeing with it all, which makes me suspect them. Although by that theory Xyl would also be scum, because that's who CESc paired jeru with.

Also, I'm still uncomfortable with any plan that includes lynching SF today.

My plan:
Lynch for the day: jeru.
Pairs:
Cavebear-CESc
Shanba-Xyl
Imat-Joubert
ting-Korts
SF goes unpaired, if jeru turns up town or there's a nightkill, he's NO. 1 suspect.

Korts · Post Post #567 (isolation #96) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:00 am

EBWOP

Also, I'm still uncomfortable with any plan that includes lynching SF today.

I'd correct that. Anyone who wants to lynch SF today is scum by my definition. We lose little, and gain a lot of information by letting him live. On the other hand, we lose a lot more if we lynch him and he turns up cop.

Korts · Post Post #568 (isolation #97) » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:04 am

Korts wrote: Although by that theory Xyl would also be scum, because that's who CESc paired jeru with.

Hey, I found something. Xyl could very easily be scum along with CESc and jeru, by the following.

Xyl wrote: Going by the first post...
CESc - jerubbaal
Joubert - korts
Imat & SensFan unpaired
Shanba - ting =)
Cavebear with a Toothache - Xylthixlm

As in, CESc put jeru and Xyl together in a pair, and now Xyl puts CESc and jeru together. It's not much, I admit, but still.

Korts · Post Post #578 (isolation #98) » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:36 am

Just dropping in for a moment. I'd say we have two pairings, one with SF blocked and one with him unblocked, in case jerubbaal turns up town, because who knows how long twilight's gonna be this time?

Korts · Post Post #596 (isolation #99) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:08 am

Though it pains me to say such a thing, I don't understand something. How is CESc confirmed? I accept that I was foolish after lovo's lynch, and this confirms me up to a point, but CESc? I may have missed something.

Also, I need feedback. We need two pairings, no? Who knows how long twilight will be this time.

Korts · Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:37 am

Oh yeah, I see. I thought he was only referring to lovo being one.

Korts · Post Post #601 (isolation #101) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:30 pm

@jeru. Alright, I see where CESc is confirmed. But even if SF comes up as scum, you're far from confirmed. If both of you are scum, you probably have discussed that you have a better chance of surviving, because even if SF throws you under the bus, he'd go down when his next investigation turns up false, whereas you, after successfully getting the "fakeclaiming scum" lynched, won't have a similar chance to slip up, because you can't investigate, nor can you claim to have investigated. Can you follow me?

Also, no, I don't agree that the game would be broken with a cop. First, there's the PR. We had a very good chance to lynch him Day 1, and there are so-called townies like you who still want to lynch him, when he's the best chance the town has got. Then there's the possibility of a GF or two, there could be Millers, or unblockable scum, so on.

We lynch you, jeru. If we have any sense, we lynch you today.

Korts · Post Post #608 (isolation #102) » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:57 am

Hey, just posting to say that I won't be here for two days, until Sunday.

Korts · Post Post #626 (isolation #103) » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:37 am

Right, I'm here, and I'll be posting content soon.

Korts · Post Post #629 (isolation #104) » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:19 am

I agree with xyl's pairing. If there's a nightkill, Xyl and SF are my top suspects.

I honestly think SF has a fair chance of being town, jeru. I understand you're frustrated, but that doesn't convince me of your townliness. Call me an idiot if you will, and I'm sure you will, but I can take criticism and I sure as hell don't care about your opinion.

vote: jerubbaal

Also,

MFoS: CESc

, jeru's very obviously protecting him, emphasising his townliness, calling him reasonable as compared to everyone else, and so on. If jeru turns up scum, I think CESc should be our next suspect.

Korts · Post Post #634 (isolation #105) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:25 am

ting =) wrote:So... I had pizza for dinner today.

What kind?

Korts · Post Post #638 (isolation #106) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:16 am

ting wrote:Meat lovers

Dammit I'm drowning in saliva.

Cavebear wrote: I'm not comfortable with calling CESc as closed-to-confirmed just based on him guessing at an all-RB setup earlier than most.

Actually the precise quote of CESc is "@ Korst: Are you a roleblocker too?" This, to my mind, doesn't quite sound like he (CESc) is RB, but that he wants to find out if I'm a roleblocker like lovo was. He isn't implying, as far as I can tell, an all-RB setup, just that there could be multiple roleblockers. I don't think CESc is really confirmed with this.

Also, I have previously pointed out that I suspect CESc and Xyl the most along with jerubbaal, and now I've looked at Xyl's pairings again, this reinforces me in the belief that they are scum, at least two of the three of them. If you notice, Xyl has himself paired with CESc in the event of SF being Cop, and has CESc unpaired and himself blocking SF in the event of SF turning up scum. Sorry I didn't notice this earlier, I just skimmed through the pairings.

ting wrote: I had suspicions of xyl day 1, and still do, but he was the first to actually claim rb. At the point when xyl claimed, there was no clear indication yet that we had an all rb setup. It could be the scum have safe claims, or maybe with 2 rb's dead and korts claiming, xyl figured it would be a safe enough claim to make. I don't know.

I think Xyl's a bright guy, it would've been fairly easy to guess that the town wouldn't mind a fourth RB after lovo, Elias and me.

About the vote, I seem to remember Elias was on the wagon too.

Korts · Post Post #639 (isolation #107) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:31 am

No, Elias wasn't on it. I've found the problem. You remember when Imat replaced in, he voted lovo to pressure him? Well, in post 340 he unvoted and voted for Xyl. Khel didn't notice this and in the votecount of post 347 Imat's still listed as voting for lovo. From there on, Imat didn't change his vote and didn't point this mistake out to Khel, so his vote stayed on lovo. Easy-peasy.

Korts · Post Post #641 (isolation #108) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:37 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Korts wrote:Actually the precise quote of CESc is "@ Korst: Are you a roleblocker too?" This, to my mind, doesn't quite sound like he (CESc) is RB, but that he wants to find out if I'm a roleblocker like lovo was. He isn't implying, as far as I can tell, an all-RB setup, just that there could be multiple roleblockers. I don't think CESc is really confirmed with this.
Note that I also said I thought it was very likely lovo turned up scum when he claimed roleblocker, without anyone else even mentioning anything of the like.

Even though he claimed

after

the hammah? You're strange.

Korts · Post Post #642 (isolation #109) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:39 am

Alright, time for my pairs.

We lynch jerubbaal

If jerubbaal turns up scum:

CESc--Korts
Xyl--Shanba
Joubert--Cavebear
Imat--ting

Unpaired: SF

If jerubbaal comes up town:

SF--Shanba
CESc--Cavebear
Xyl--ting
Joubert--Imat

Unpaired: Korts

For reference, I made my pairs in this way: made a list from most scummy to least, and the most scummy went with the least scummy, the second most with the second least, so on.

Korts · Post Post #646 (isolation #110) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:28 pm

Ok, here's the list: on top, scummiest, on bottom, least scummy.

Jerubbaal
CESc
Xyl
Joubert
Imat
ting
Cavebear
Shanba
Korts (naturally)

And SF is categorized depending on jerubbaal's alignment, either least scummy or scummiest. Also, in the second pairing, I go unpaired because I have myself listed as most town.

Korts · Post Post #649 (isolation #111) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:08 am

ting =) wrote:Yes, then shouldn't you pair yourself with SF if Jeru turns out town? He'd be as close to confirmed scum as you can get, he should be paired with the most obviously town player.

Right, but do you want the second most town left unblocked? I think that's open to interpretation. However you want it, I'm fine as long as CESc, Xyl and Joubert don't go in the same pair. I mean, any two of them.

Korts · Post Post #652 (isolation #112) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:28 am

Do you have any suspicions on Shanba? If so, please point it out to me. The three (four) scummiest in my list were placed on top of the list with solid suspicions. The towniest were listed by gut feeling.

Korts · Post Post #653 (isolation #113) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:31 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Korts wrote: Even though he claimed
after
the hammah? You're strange.
Yes, even though he claimed after the hammer. Does that make me strange, or a roleblocker?

That makes you... strange. And

possibly

a roleblocker, or scum who recieved flavor to indicate the setup.

Korts · Post Post #655 (isolation #114) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:09 am

Alright, how about going with my pairing, but in the event of jerubbaal turning town,

I

block SF and

Shanba

goes unblocked?

Korts · Post Post #657 (isolation #115) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:04 am

Great. Everybody vote with me, then?

Korts · Post Post #666 (isolation #116) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:54 am

Okay, jeru. I'm fine with using your pairs. Also, I don't count on you to consider me confirmed. But being confirmed doesn't mean I don't have enough Brains to decide for myself what to think. I considered CESc's partial claim, and I still think he's scummier than Shanba, Imat, Cavebear and ting. It's open for interpretation, though.

Korts · Post Post #671 (isolation #117) » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:06 am

I've asked for replacement. Family matters. Sorry.

Korts · Post Post #683 (isolation #118) » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:53 am

Sorry to butt in, I know I'm being replaced and all, just one last parting comment:

If jerubbaal turns up scum, I'm fairly sure CES will have something to hide, too. They've been emphasising each other's townliness for quite a while now. I know CES may count as somewhat confirmed, but he's acting suspicious with this 'n'all. Peace, I'm out.

Korts · Post Post #700 (isolation #119) » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:25 pm

Hey, guys. Family matters resolved sooner than I thought, so here I am. I'm coming back a bit later to write s'more.

Korts · Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:29 am

Arlight, I'm here. Sorry for lag, RL was getting a bit thick. I'm still saying we should lynch jerubbaal, but if the majority is for lynching SF, I can see where it's a good scenario for town. In fact, almost anything along the lines of a jeru/SF lynch is good for town, so you decide. It's time we decided on something, though.

Korts · Post Post #717 (isolation #121) » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 am

Yet you emphasise that you're letting go. I'd lynch you now even if that wasn't the plan anyway.

Korts · Post Post #731 (isolation #122) » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:02 am

I'm with ting here. Even if the chance of SF truly being the cop is far less than jeru being town, the correct play is to lynch jeru, because his alignment turning public would be much more telling. It's a very probable town win anyway.

Korts · Post Post #733 (isolation #123) » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:43 am

Yes, but while you we can only use to block someone, SF, if he turns up cop, can investigate.

Korts · Post Post #752 (isolation #124) » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:08 am

BM, I've read my 202, and I really don't see anything insightful. It's interesting to see how I thrash around a bit, but insightful I don't think. The rest I agree with, although I don't yet understand how SF's accidental self-vote confirms his PR.

Korts · Post Post #771 (isolation #125) » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:44 pm

Lynching jerubbaal is the surest way to go, because with a no lynch where no NK happens, SF can still be scum without making an NK, expecting the town to give him a free pass from thereon. Lynching jerubbaal is a much better way of confirming SF's claim.

Korts · Post Post #789 (isolation #126) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:20 am

jerubbaal wrote:
I also fail to see why asking SF to break his "post restriction" stands to help us at all.

You'd rather not see SF's PR confirmed, is that it?

Korts · Post Post #790 (isolation #127) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:22 am

Also, CESc is pretty much confirmed, to the same extent as I am.

Korts · Post Post #791 (isolation #128) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:26 am

Okay, I guess if BM's done rereading, it'd be pretty much time to end the day.

Korts · Post Post #807 (isolation #129) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:16 pm

I, for one, am all for SF confirming his PR. At worst, he gets modkilled, but we still have a single confirmed scum. Also, SF, let's get this straight. You're gonna die in a fire if you break the PR?

Korts · Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:15 pm

/agree, obviously

Korts · Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:34 am

I'm all for having SF break his PR, but if he's not willing, it's not absolutely necessary. We can go on with the jerubbaal lynch anyway.

Korts · Post Post #850 (isolation #132) » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:12 am

Great, so vote jerubbaal.

Korts · Post Post #866 (isolation #133) » Fri May 02, 2008 6:12 am

CESc, maybe you and jeru don't agree with the plan of jeru's lynch, but everyone else does. That's a majority, isn't it? I'm not native english, but the way I interpret "consensus", it's just a synonym for "majority". Correct me, though, if I'm wrong.

The fact is, the majority of the town is willing to lynch jerubbaal. I, for one, don't really care whether SF breaks his PR, but I'd rather see him do it than not. It would help us somewhat.

Korts · Post Post #884 (isolation #134) » Tue May 06, 2008 2:34 am

Alright, how do you think getting SF to break his PR should go down? Should we impose a deadline, by which point he should break it, and after which we will policy-lynch him?

Korts · Post Post #897 (isolation #135) » Wed May 07, 2008 7:12 am

break PR

Korts · Post Post #902 (isolation #136) » Wed May 07, 2008 9:36 pm

That's 4 people for breaking the PR. Majority is 6.

Korts · Post Post #909 (isolation #137) » Fri May 09, 2008 8:52 pm

@Joubert: majority.

Korts · Post Post #911 (isolation #138) » Sat May 10, 2008 1:13 am

Oh yeah, hey.

Korts · Sat May 10, 2008 11:30 pm

Good game, BM. Thanks for the help.

I don't see how SF's claim could be proven, therefore I think the best idea is to lynch him.

Vote: SensFan

Korts · Sat May 10, 2008 11:31 pm

Wait,

unvote

. Let's give the replacement some time.

Korts · Post Post #926 (isolation #141) » Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 am

ting =) wrote:I'm not sure whether or not to buy it, but I won't support his lynch. The mod already said he wouldn't do anything that would outright confirm him. I'd like to resuggest a no lynch.

Seriously, why not? We no lynch for 7 days until SF has a result or otherwise. We verify if they're true by lynching him after the 7th day. If he's cop, he's done his job already, so no biggie. If he's scum, then it'd be just like if we lynch him now except that we took a longer while to get there. There's no big downside to it, why don't we do it?

That's a plan I'd be able to accept, too.

However, I agree with CESc this time, it's pretty condemning that he's been so reluctant if he only gets a warning first time around. Plus, SensFan's PR, therefore his claim cannot be confirmed, therefore he's a liability to town. And we're back to jerubbaal and CESc's point about what the possibility of a PR'd cop is in an all-RB setup.

However, ting's suggestion is by far the most pro-town so far.

Korts · Post Post #931 (isolation #142) » Sun May 11, 2008 9:42 am

No, jerubbaal. He says he will lose cop powers with three breaks. Anyway, if we lose a townie after the first no lynch, we'll know who to lynch.

Korts · Post Post #937 (isolation #143) » Sun May 11, 2008 9:58 pm

Wait, SF, what kind of insult is "die in a fire"?

But jeru, we seriously have to consider the merits of a no lynch. SF will have at least one more investigation, which in the case of him being the real cop may be of real help. If there's no nightkill, we have him investigate everyone until he has a result on everyone. If there's a nightkill, we lynch him ASAP. There's no downside to this plan that I can see, therefore your reaction kinda confirms SF's result.

Korts · Mon May 12, 2008 12:49 am

Read it, it's condemning, but still it doesn't hurt to go with a no lynch.

Korts · Mon May 12, 2008 12:53 am

About the no lynch alternative:

SF unblocked
Korts unblocked, blocks jerubbaal for safety. (That's if you're alright with me going unblocked)
jerubbaal-Cavebear
CESc-ting
Joubert-Shanba
Evilgorillaz-BM replacement

That's, I think, a reasonably sound pairing. If you have any objections, glad to hear them.

Korts · Post Post #945 (isolation #146) » Mon May 12, 2008 3:08 am

Cavebear wrote:
Just to point this out: If you block jerub, that essentially means I go unblocked as well. So in this case, I believe it's actually best if you don't block anyone at all.

True, yeah. The idea was to make sure the scummiest player who's paired up gets blocked, but yeah, I see where it's flawed. I just remembered someone suggesting this. I think I'll research who actually suggested it, this could be a scumtell, that someone's trying to give a chance for the scum to NK. If I remember correctly, though, it was ting who suggested it, along with the no lynch, maybe?

Korts · Post Post #946 (isolation #147) » Mon May 12, 2008 3:09 am

Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:SF's claim also makes no sense in the light of Khelv's post about breaking PR's.

Nolynching with a known scum around doesn't make sense in 99% of the cases.

There's still some remote chance that he's just a fucked up cop, perhaps?

Korts · Post Post #949 (isolation #148) » Mon May 12, 2008 3:39 am

jerubbaal wrote:Reading is tech....

Anyway, I don't see why you're all waffling on this. It's so ridiculously clear that SF can't prove anything, and there's no way in heck I'll be happy letting him go to night. It ends up being the exact same scenario as lynching me. I really don't understand why all of you are so outright convinced that he can't possibly be anything but a cop.

I, for one, am not outright convinced that he's cop. On the contrary. But a no lynch is still the best thing if we consider every remote possibility.

Also, CESc, the question was rhetorical.

Korts · Post Post #954 (isolation #149) » Mon May 12, 2008 6:54 am

For you, maybe not.

Korts · Post Post #963 (isolation #150) » Tue May 13, 2008 9:20 am

Hey, Cavebear, this is no time to snap. If he's cop and you get him lynched.... hey, I don't really know how to finish this sentence. Whatever. Unvote. Now.

Korts · Tue May 13, 2008 10:15 pm

Cool. Everyone accounted for? Well then,

Vote: No Lynch

Korts · Post Post #975 (isolation #152) » Wed May 14, 2008 9:22 am

I read you, CESc, but I don't know why I do anymore. It's so dull and repetitive. And negative. Be optimistic, for heaven's fucking sake!

Korts · Post Post #977 (isolation #153) » Wed May 14, 2008 9:35 am

Korlash?

Korts · Post Post #979 (isolation #154) » Wed May 14, 2008 9:53 am

Korts wrote:Korlash?

Shanba, Korlash?

Korts · Post Post #980 (isolation #155) » Wed May 14, 2008 9:55 am

I mean, I know he's a player on the forum, but read your own post. Who's Korlash in this game?

On the other hand, what made you increasingly suspicious of Joubert?

Korts · Wed May 14, 2008 10:05 am

You mean the intermittent pointles FoSes, and the fooling around? You may be saying something. But what if we go after him, though? We still have SF as our main problem, since if we don't go with either "lynch jerubbaal" or "lynch SF", his claim won't be confirmed.?

Korts · Wed May 14, 2008 10:05 am

Without the question mark at the end, obviously.

Korts · Post Post #996 (isolation #158) » Fri May 16, 2008 9:44 am

No, you're thinking backwards, Joubert. We want to consider whether we want a No Lynch or not. Having an even or odd number of people tonight is a secondary question at best.

Would you like me to post my pairings again?

Korts · Post Post #997 (isolation #159) » Fri May 16, 2008 9:45 am

EBWOP: the second part is at the town generally. Also to the town, does that mean that all of you are fine with my pairings?

Korts · Fri May 16, 2008 10:39 pm

We could always go with lynching jerubbaal.

Anyway, what I meant with the No Lynch vs. even/odd numbers is that having even or odd numbers isn't the primary thing to consider, we have to think about whether we want a No Lynch or would rather lynch someone. I know the two are linked, it's just that in my opinion we should look at the question from the No Lynch/lynch someone perspective rather than the even/odd numbers perspective. Geez, now I'm confusing myself. Anyway.

Korts · Sat May 17, 2008 3:43 am

I'm up for that, too, ting, actually. A Joubert-lynch is the only one that springs to my mind other than jerubbaal and SF, though.

The pairings:

SF unblocked
Korts unblocked

jerubbaal-Cavebear
CESc-ting
Joubert-Shanba
Evilgorillaz-BM replacement

And suddenly I realize: we still have to wait for BM's replacement.

Korts · Sat May 17, 2008 11:21 pm

Cavebear with a toothache wrote:Lynching someone else than SF or jerubbaal seems like a bad idea; for one thing, one of them are almost certainly scum, meaning lynching someone else is a statistically much worse move.

I don't usually do FoSes, but in this situation, my vote isn't going to go your way, so

FoS: Cavebear

. You yourself said that an odd number would be better than an even. Lynching SF would be detrimental to the town, and though I hate myself for saying it, but lynching jerubbaal would be also detrimental in the sense that we would lose a good player. The compromise decision is to lynch someone else or no lynch. No lynch will leave us with an even number, and lynching someone else will leave us with an odd number of people.

Korts · Sun May 18, 2008 12:35 am

You don't agree then, that Joubert is pretty lynchworthy right now?

Korts · Wed May 21, 2008 12:33 am

Cavebear with a toothache wrote:
ting =) wrote:He's a logical choice for a jeru partner, if jeru is scum.
Because I tried to get him lynched pretty much all day until BM suggested SF would break his PR? >_> Also,
FoS
for trying to direct the cop.

Trying to get him lynched doesn't mean all that much. But the FoS is well placed.

Korts · Sat May 24, 2008 1:14 am

I think someone asked for all possible pairings to be put on current page, so I collected all the pairings I suggested.

No Lynch wrote: SF unblocked
Korts unblocked

jerubbaal-Cavebear
CESc-ting
Joubert-Shanba
Evilgorillaz-BM replacement

Lynching jerubbaal wrote:
If jerubbaal turns up scum:

CESc--Korts
Xyl--Shanba
Joubert--Cavebear
Imat--ting

Unpaired: SF

If jerubbaal comes up town:

SF--Shanba
CESc--Cavebear
Xyl--ting
Joubert--Imat

Unpaired: Korts

I still don't think SF should be lynched, not today, at least. Any objections about the pairings, just say so.

Korts · Sat May 24, 2008 1:17 am

Lynching jerubbaal wrote: If jerubbaal turns up scum:

CESc--Korts
BM replacement--Shanba
Joubert--Cavebear
Evilgorillaz--ting

Unpaired: SF

If jerubbaal comes up town:

SF--Shanba
CESc--Cavebear
BM replacement--ting
Joubert--Evilgorillaz

Unpaired: Korts

updated to reflect the current players.

Korts · Sun May 25, 2008 12:22 am

I see your point, Cavebear. But speaking of uncool and unsportsmanlike, it would be uncool and unsportsmanlike of the town not to wait for a replacement.

Korts · Sun May 25, 2008 10:22 pm

Hey, fine with me...

Korts · Mon May 26, 2008 8:57 pm

I'm dying to know, though, SensFan. Were you really a cop?

Korts · Thu May 29, 2008 11:49 pm

Aww, you get the phone sex and everything, and I get to be the creepy guy? Damn you, evil mod! My PM:

Role PM wrote:You have been keeping a lookout all night for those who are abducting. As such, you can go over to someone's house for the night and take a look at what they are doing. If they leave, they will notice that they are being watched and go back inside, for fear that its someone trying to abduct them. As such, whatever they were going to do won't get done.

You are a roleblocker. You win with the town. You can choose one person per night. If they are doing a night action, you will block them.

Yeah, if jeru would have been lynched, I would have been pretty confused about SF. I mean, that's a pretty unusual and, I guess, stupid way of bussing...

Also, if xyl/BM was unNK-able, that suggests an SK?

Korts · Thu May 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Anyway, does that mean that you were faking the PR, SF?

Korts · Fri May 30, 2008 3:35 am

SensFan wrote:
jerubbaal wrote:I'm basically the mafia GF. Pissed as hell when SF claimed that he had a guilty result on me, because if I get lynched, he's proved to not be the cop anyway. In the end, it might have been for the better, because the only chance in heck we have to win this is to get someone in the "confirmed" column and then execute in endgame.
Yeah.

About that, my Role PM said I was the GF.

The PM you quoted doesn't say that.