Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Elias_the_thief]

confirminize me capn.

as a sidenote, ill be out of town til sunday, unfortunately.

[Elias_the_thief]

we can has start?

[Elias_the_thief]

santa watchers?

i agree.

[Elias_the_thief]

I've contacted Meme about the lack of mod, but i think he'll probably be back sometime soon.

[Elias_the_thief]

woot, first real post,

vote: CES

for having played with me in one of my first games on the site.

[Elias_the_thief]

vote elias

aparantly hes a thief. criminals are bad

unvote, vote: elias da thief

. You convinced me. Lynch all criminals, isn't that the point anyway?

Out of curiousity, have you ever heard of Robin Hood?

@Ces: Eh, maybe it was my fourth or fifth. It was a long time ago though.

@ Jeralfkeapigbell: You dont think 5-5 is a good record as town? Breaking 500 is doing a lot better then many players on the site. Regardless, the fact that I'm good as scum does not actually raise the possibility of me being scum in this game.

@Sensfan:
1) way to flake out of my game, buttmunch
2) nice faked PR.

in conclusion,

unvote, vote: sensfan

for now, on the basis of having an overly complicated and unlikely PR (also, theyre very rare in mini-normals).

[Elias_the_thief]

Also @ CES: You were scum with me in 365, which was like my third game or something like that because i started out playing one at a time.

[Elias_the_thief]

Nope, I don't see a vote. I guess he

does

have a post restriction.

wah? We cant say for sure what the cause of the vote is, but that is pretty wierd.

[Elias_the_thief]

hes a mime?

[Elias_the_thief]

Ok. Sorry CESc, I guess I should pay closer attention to names. Um, in regard to faking PR's, it certainly can be done by town, I've seen it personally from thestatusquo in mini (i think) 367. maybe 365. One of those.

I'm unsure what to think of the PR. I think the fact that voting one letter has effectively counted as votes says something, but I'm not sure what. I mean, why would the vote count just because of the first letter, unless the PR was real?

[Elias_the_thief]

eh, maybe. hold on.

unvote:sensfan, vote: S

let's see what happens.

[Elias_the_thief]

Ok, well that clears things up a bit. And leaves me as skeptical of Sensfan as I was before.

unvote, vote: senfan

to put him back at -3.

[Elias_the_thief]

Faking a PR=lying. LAL. This seems like a really solid line of reasoning to me, I don't know why we would compromise it simply because some townies are dumb and fake PRs.

Just so you know, LAL is a retarded strategy. so yeah. Anyways, to all the people who are saying that scum does not gain from a faked PR, youre wrong. For one, it allows them just the sort of WIFOM protection your statement is suggesting, two, it allows them to limit their contribution without being accused of lurking.

Finally, I dont know why town would fake PR, but Ive seen it done and it happens. Either way, I'm for the Sens lynch. I think that hes scum, I definately dont believe the PR, and he'll only be a low contributor and distraction throughout the game.

[Elias_the_thief]

yay for standstills! Theres certainly no reason to look for a counterclaim. the bit about khel. being confused simply acts to confuse me, as i dont know what the original post before he editted it entailed...

Ugh. This game has become rather mucky. I'm thinking that Khel being confused shows that sens is not cop. I also think we should lynch him to clear the waters, so to speak.

[Elias_the_thief]

what im saying is i dont know what he originally said in the post before editting it (if that was directed at me). I dunno, im really confused about the whole situation right now.

[Elias_the_thief]

In addition, im thinking we could allow him to survive one day and see if he delivers any results tomorrow, but im not even sure what we'd do with the info.

[Elias_the_thief]

Alright. That does clear things up a bit. I think that there shouldnt be a counterclaim today if its a fakeclaim, but we have no reason to disbelieve it. I'd like to see what he has to tell us tomorrow.
so

unvote

[Elias_the_thief]

Anyways, to all the people who are saying that scum does not gain from a faked PR, youre wrong. For one, it allows them just the sort of WIFOM protection your statement is suggesting, two, it allows them to limit their contribution without being accused of lurking.

Thats what scum gain lovo.

[Elias_the_thief]

it would seem you have left out your reasons for suspecting sens in that post, maybe on purpose. could you summarize?

[Elias_the_thief]

I somehow thought that I had talked enough about SensFan, but since you ask:

yeah, thats what i meant with the "on purpose" comment, as in you thought youd covered it.

As for the points you raise, I'll agree that the PR is unlikely, but that doesnt mean hes scum. I saw my brother once fake a PR for two game days before being discovered, and he turned out to be a one time kill immune townie. So I dont think its a reliable scum tell.

The only reason I do think a Sensfan lynch would be alright is that it would clear the waters as ive said earlier, and give us info about those for or against his lynch. But as of right now, i think that can occur later rather than sooner, and in the meanwhile looking in other directions is better. the result is that ill be rereading tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

im i the only one who has no idea what SF's last post was supposed to mean?

[Elias_the_thief]

i agree with ting.

[Elias_the_thief]

ugh. im still really conflicted on this SF issue. The only townie who ive seen fake a PR WAS my brother, who just does stuff like that. I dont really know SF to have a reputation, so I cant say whether theyd fake as town. Im pretty sure the PR isnt legit though.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah, but that doesnt actually change the likelihood of SF saying to himself "hmm, ill fuck with these guys by having a PR". Its still just as possible either way.

[Elias_the_thief]

if hes already just screwing with the town, theres no reason he wouldnt just claim cop to mess us up more. On the other hand, he may have claimed cop because hes scum who feels hes about to be lynched and wanted to draw a counterclaim.

[Elias_the_thief]

yes, why am i scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh, I've seen plenty of saboteurs in my time, at least 3 or 4 that ive personally witnessed and several others that I've been told of. I'll probably end up voting for SF, but Im far from sure that theyre scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh, I've seen plenty of saboteurs in my time, at least 3 or 4 that ive personally witnessed and several others that I've been told of. I'll probably end up voting for SF, but Im far from sure that theyre scum.

Too bad Xyl already made the Jester analogy, because I would've. Really, just because one is almost definitely scum, you think they're townies trying to mess with the town? That's quite possibly one of the worst arguments I've heard. And even

if

he'd be sabotaging this much, we'd be better off lynching him asap anyway.

Im not making the argument that he is a saboteur. I'm saying that its a possibility, especially given the cop claim. I'm still not even against his lynch, I'm undecided. You seem to be attacking what I've said as if theyre defenses of him. Theyre not, simply my suggestions as to possibilities on his role. I'm not comfortable voting someone just for an unlikely PR.

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.

that was clarified and doesnt actually prove anything.

[Elias_the_thief]

ah. i guess im guilty of skimming, i had read your previous post only up to where you say "then lynch him" and thought you were urging jer. to vote him. My bad.

[Elias_the_thief]

Korts, I have a question for you: Who do you think is more likely to be scum than SensFan?

thats a dumb question. its obviously impossible to give an intelligent answer because SF is basically all we've talked about thus far. But it doesnt mean that SF is a good lynch, only that we should continue discussing and look for a better lynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok. if thats true i dont see why we're lynching him or even discussing it at this point. If it comes down to a deadline lynch i guess id vote him, but i think a better idea is to continue hunting. thats what im doing.

on the other hand, he hasnt made an attempt to explain why im scummy. Im pretty sure he can quote other posts and bold words so i expect at least something of that nature.

[Elias_the_thief]

Well, im probably going to vote SF at the end of the day. In the meanwhile Ive been playing devils advocate on arguments to get more out the day.

[Elias_the_thief]

I think he was just commenting on our discussion...

[Elias_the_thief]

meh. current discussion is going no where. I'm pretty sure mini normals do not have post restrictions, and I think SF's is a little bit ridiculous to be true. Theres always the off-chance that SF is just fucking with us as town, but more likely she is scum. Theres also the possibility that shes jester, but a jesters death wins them the game, not loses the town the game, so lynching her isnt real that bad either way. so

unvote, vote: Sensfan

[Elias_the_thief]

Sorry. While youre hear, can you perhaps answer my question about why I'm scummy? You can obviously quote things, so could you quote my posts that you find scummy?

[Elias_the_thief]

so

unvote

[/i]

thats a dumb question. its obviously impossible to give an intelligent answer because SF is basically all we've talked about thus far.

But it doesnt mean that SF is a good lynch, only that we should continue discussing and look for a better lynch.

Vote: V
Vote: S

[/quote]
I dont see why...

Well, im probably going to vote SF at the end of the day.

In the meanwhile

Ive been playing devils advocate on arguments to get more out the day.

The bolded section is important. A lot of those arguments for leaving you around longer were a result of me playing the devils advocate, IE making people argue their case against you and furthering discussion. Ive actually been in support of your lynch since I decided your restriction is very unlikely. So while I may have contradicted myself in what I said, I only did so to create conversation, and my current views are the ones I actually support.

[Elias_the_thief]

um....ok. even if i DID swap sides, what exactly is my motivation as scum to be against your lynch in the first place? IE, how is switching that a scumtell?

And you can think what you want. I didnt really want to go into day 2 with a quicklynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

that doesnt explain why scum has motivation to switch.

[Elias_the_thief]

I posted asking for replacements of those two people

I sent two your way, hopefully they pan out.

[Elias_the_thief]

Also Sensfan, it occurs to me that you declared me scummy before I dropped the devils advocacy. Why were you suspicious of me originally?

[Elias_the_thief]

Your PR will be debated and discussed and will monopolize the thread. Considering that its more than likely youre faking, and also that your lynch will cause good discussion about what people thought about it, id like to get rid of that useless discussion.

[Elias_the_thief]

Sensfan, that doesnt mean that it wont. Ive seen it happen before, you will pretty much monopolize the discussion, as youve already been doing for about 11 pages now.

[Elias_the_thief]

@SensFan: could you answer why you unvoted and voted for Elias now three times in a row, when you already had your vote on him? Another: I agree with Cavebear, quoting his post would make contribution easier on you.

hes been unvoting and voting letters to spell out messages to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

Yay, replacements!

I must say I quite agree with what Shanba says, in the sense that, would SF be mafia, he'd likely be a goon/gf (which is the trend in mini normals) and that means it isn't very harmful if we keep him alive. I once before played a game where we kept a known mafia goon alive on purpose, and that turned out to be quite a good play. If SF keeps contributing, and he seems to be doing that quite a lot better lately, I guess I'm okay with keeping him alive. Still think he's scum, though.

Why would you want to keep him alive if you think hes scum.
1) the idea is to catch scum, and if we KNOW hes scum it gives as more info about who else is scum
2) it delays LYLO if we kill him now

Whatever situation in which you kept a goon alive before, I doubt it was like this.

[Elias_the_thief]

I know khel...he was just quoting something I said a long time ago, before you clarified.

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree with Xyl. The harm is more a lost gain than anything else.

And I'm talking about the "good posting" kind of stuff. I think he is under the impression that he has to revote afterwards.

[Elias_the_thief]

Shanba, I really disagree with what you said about Khel. I think Khel is a pretty established mod, I dont think he would make such a vague restriction. Like, the ability to vote one letter? He can mime? Notice how he has switched away from miming as the game progresses? I think in the early stages he was making it up as he was going along, basically.

Anyways, I dont see the value of leaving him alive a day, and getting results. We're just going to lynch him anyways, and I'm pretty sure he'll get blocked if the mafia has one, and if theres a town RB among the players for his lynch, he'd get blocked by them probably. More likely then not hes scum, I seriously dont think Khel would give this kind of restriction to a cop.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm not sure how that proves anything...are you quoting communications to the mod? If thats the case, you kind of cant do that.

[Elias_the_thief]

No, I meant the entire quote. Khel said to PM him any problems. PM's to the mod are just as forbidden as ones from them.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok. I still dont see what it proves though. It only proves that hes either telling the truth or going out of his way to make it seem real. If hes scum, then I think going out of his way to prove it really isnt unlikely.

[Elias_the_thief]

It only proves that hes either telling the truth or going out of his way to make it seem real.

[Elias_the_thief]

I dont remember anyone voting out of annoyance...

[Elias_the_thief]

Wake me when

we've lynched SensFan.

september ends

that song is alright, but was overplayed.

but in all seriousness let's lynch SF, kthxbai.

[Elias_the_thief]

Cavebear, I really dont like being told what to do. I've laid out my reasons for voting Sensfan, go back and read. Your reason for not voting him seems to be that we dont get info if we lynch him today, but thats not true. We get all the info of who was on his wagon and who was defending him. Especially if he turns out scum which is the greatest likelihood. I'm almost certain he's faking the PR, and I really doubt he would do that were he truly a cop, as it makes him stand out more and seem a more likely lynch. therefore the info we get from him tomorrow will likely just be scum lies and completely wifom. I'd rather not waste a day for misinfo from a fakeclaiming scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

sigh. why do all the noobs respond to jokes like that? Its pretty obvious that he was just noting that he was for the lynch of sensfan still. Do you honestly think he means to abandon the game entirely until SF is lynched? Do you actually think he was closing himself to all other opinions for day 1?

Sigh. MS is really going downhill these days.

[Elias_the_thief]

why is any joke worse then another? What decides it? I would made that joke as town. I've made similar ones before. Thats why I responded to it in jest. Because its a joke, simply furthering what hes already expressed in previous posts. To vote based on it is ridiculous.

[Elias_the_thief]

Which really makes me wonder why you felt the need to mention it when a mention closer to the end of the thread would more likely tip him off.

[Elias_the_thief]

ive seen it before, but its not cheating to not inform a replacement of a faked pr, its like not telling them a fakeclaim. Its perfectly fair.

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh goody.

[Elias_the_thief]

SF: i agree that the claim was warranted, but i disagree with your claim that you've been participating.

[Elias_the_thief]

good job guys. we couldnt just lynch the obviously faked PR could we, we had to go with a retarded wagon on no real reasoning. now we're down an RB apparently.

[Elias_the_thief]

joubert, youre calling

him

fishy for capitalizing on the quick wagon change? WTF are you on?

[Elias_the_thief]

@ Korst:

Are you a roleblocker too?

erm...I dont think he said that. Good rolefishing though. I'll keep that in mind for tomorrow.

[Elias_the_thief]

its still fishing, as you're asking his role without real need, which only helps scum. Even if you want to stress the minute difference between what yo did and fishing, what you did is still scummy as hell.

I've contacted Meme about Khels absense. She's looking into it.

[Elias_the_thief]

The distinction is completely irrelevant, as the term "fishing" isnt even a reliable general tell, as you must decide whether the particular instance is scummy or not. The fact that you were trying to get role information with no need is very scummy, regardless of what you call it. Call is shooting walrusses with harpoons for all I care.

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree. This is one of the few games I've seen lately with almost completely active players, I'd hate to see it die out because the mod went missing.

[Elias_the_thief]

God Damn it, killed in two games in two days! Maybe I shouldnt bother signing up for games anymore. Go town.