Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Tarhalindur]

I have two words to say to whoever killed me.

Frak. you.

*dies*

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, I just got time to start reading the thread (stupid papers and finals...). From what I've looked at so far, I'm pretty sure that we need to stop wasting our time with speculation about Cult recruits and deal with actual threats to the town.

For instance, there is skitzer, who is probably scum and needs to be lynched today. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write a full PBPA at the moment (I repeat, stupid papers and finals...), but here's a start - I'll try to get the rest up by the weekend. Observe the scumminess:

Hi guys!

Wow, I think this is my first game with a Cult. Good thing we got 'em first night though.

30 is a big number for me...

Random vote time,

Vote: Matt_S

because there is a person at my school with the same name...weird...

That would be the "Sucks For Us!" Tell, one of the Tarhalindur Standard Tells. The comment on the number of players doesn't sit too well with me either.

(I'm going to preemptively shoot down. anyone who claims that the random vote stage is useless for scumhunting. Random voting can be amazingly useful for catching scum, especially after another scum has been caught - scum seem to like to random vote each other - or in a game, like this one, which has a N0.)

Am I wrong in saying that it is BM's playstyle to claim absurd things and act scummy?

I'm intrepreting this post as skitzer trying to defend BM without actually being called for it, due to the loaded wording.

Khelvaster, I was simply asking a question, in no way indicating my opinions toward BM. I haven't played too many games with BM, and I was wondering if that was true.

Point 1: Really? Then why use the loaded wording for your question?

Point 2: Even if you are telling the truth, it looks bad for you, because I find that hiding your opinions is generally a scumtell.

BM: Thanks for answering.

The eeny meeny argument was somewhat pointless, as it first came up as a randomish vote.

Rosso Carne: "Personally murdered"? Is that saying you are able to kill people?

An opinion about an argument (a misguided opinion, IMO, but an opinion nonetheless), a question, and a "thanks for answering".

Skitzer's lack of opinions about other players is starting to get scummy, especially since he doesn't seem to follow up on his earlier questions at all (questions without followup generally falls under the IIoA tell).

Also, that Rosso question looks suspiciously like rolefishing.

It feels as though it may have been a slip or something. Take everything seriously in Mafia.

Questions and comments about Mafia theory with little or no analysis of other players (i.e, scumhunting). That's the Information Instead of Analysis (IIoA) Tell, people.

(For people who want explanation: Check the MafiaWiki link in the sig.)

Sorry, I've been very busy, as usual

Rosso Carne explained, though his latest post is somewhat suspicious. I agree with QuickBen.

Also, I'm wondering if the cult recruiter attempted to recruit antagonistics, or would that death be delayed as well?

Wishy-washiness and blinding following others' opinions re: Rosso Carne, setup speculation, no scumhunting (indeed, no non-random vote or FoS).

Seriously, why is everyone letting Skitzer stay under the radar?

Vote: Skitzer

-

[Tarhalindur]

/prodded

Despite my early commentary on Skitzer, I have not had time for a proper PBPA, due primarily to finals, and I need a reread. If I cannot find the time to reread by next week, I will request replacement.

[Tarhalindur]

I

finally

was able to read the full thread. Yes, all 112 pages of it.

I have comments to make, but there is a chain of questioning that I need to resolve first. I have a damn good reason, but revealing it immediately would be stupid. I will reveal the reason before the end of the day.

The first question: Matt_S, how long have you known that skitzer is town?

If Matt_S avoids answering, he gets lynched today. Period.

[Tarhalindur]

I

finally

was able to read the full thread. Yes, all 112 pages of it.

I have comments to make, but there is a chain of questioning that I need to resolve first. I have a damn good reason, but revealing it immediately would be stupid. I will reveal the reason before the end of the day.

The first question: Matt_S, how long have you known that skitzer is town?

If Matt_S avoids answering, he gets lynched today. Period.

Why are you rolefishing? There, now try and lynch me.

Vote Celebloki.

All of the votes that Peers made seem poor. And comments like "Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this." push me the wrong way.

There are three reasons that I can think of that you would be so firm that skitzer is town.

I know that one of those possible reasons is invalid, to the extent that if you claim that specific reason you are almost certainly scum (>99%).

Understood?

Vote: MattS

as incentive.

[Tarhalindur]

I

finally

was able to read the full thread. Yes, all 112 pages of it.

I have comments to make, but there is a chain of questioning that I need to resolve first. I have a damn good reason, but revealing it immediately would be stupid. I will reveal the reason before the end of the day.

The first question: Matt_S, how long have you known that skitzer is town?

If Matt_S avoids answering, he gets lynched today. Period.

Why are you rolefishing? There, now try and lynch me.

Vote Celebloki.

All of the votes that Peers made seem poor. And comments like "Let's see if we can get a worth-while claim out of this." push me the wrong way.

There are three reasons that I can think of that you would be so firm that skitzer is town.

I know that one of those possible reasons is invalid, to the extent that if you claim that specific reason you are almost certainly scum (>99%).

Understood?

Vote: MattS

as incentive.

Does that justify your rolefishing?

It's not so much "rolefishing" as "trying to see whether or not you are counterclaimed without making it blatantly obvious what role you are if you are town".

[Tarhalindur]

Kscope's not scum either.

Okay, now you've all but invalidated one of the two possible reasons why you as town could have any certainty that Skitzer is town. Considering that and the manner in which you derailed the Skitzer wagon yesterday, I find it extremely likely that you are scum. Time to dispense with the pleasantries.

Matt_S, I want a damn good explanation of why you seem so certain that Skitzer and KScope are town. If you want to claim role-based information, it's time to spit it out. Otherwise, you need to explain why you failed to explain your opinions on these two players... and it needs to be a damn good explanation.

Confirm Vote

[Tarhalindur]

I have role-based information. I've made it clear what the information is, and the role is irrelevant.

Au contraire. The role is very relevant, because I'm looking at the possibility that you have already been counterclaimed.

There is exactly 1 role you could have that fits perfectly with what I know and what you have claimed to know. If you claim any other role, I will consider you counterclaimed.

That said, in the interest of trying to keep your role at least partially hidden in the case that you are telling the truth after all, I have one more question for you before I ask for a fullclaim: Have you breadcrumbed your role? Don't point out the crumbs, a yes or no will suffice.

[Tarhalindur]

Posting this in all my games: limited access until Sunday due to upcoming event.

[Tarhalindur]

/prodded

Short on time again.

[Tarhalindur]

I've been trying to avoid reaching this point, but as of about a day ago I feel that I no longer have the time or energy to invest in this game to a significant decree (at the moment, while I have time to mod [modding is pretty much autopilot for me], I don't really have the time for PBPA's, cases, or any other elements of good Mafia play in a 100-page game, much less the motivation). I will continue playing until I am lynched, vigged, or replaced, but I will not be playing at 100% (in effect, unless I somehow manage to regain my motivation, I will be a placeholder until such time as I am replaced).

Request Replacement (take your time if needed, Jordan - it's not urgent - but a replacement would be appreciated)

I attacked Matt_S because of something that would invalidate almost any investigative role claim he could make: namely, I am all-but-certain given the dead players list that the only players who could investigate alignment at the start of the game were Rosso and myself (and I strongly suspect that there were only 3 investigative roles in the game at its start).

I backed off of Matt because I realized that a few of his posts indicated that he wass (indeed, is) almost certainly the one role consistent with what I knew.

I remember that my scumdar the last time I was paying attention to the game consisted primarily of ckd and tsn, primarily because their Day 1 play gave me the strong impression that they were scumbuddies. Peers was also somewhat off, but I would need to check to rest of the site to distinguish between "about to flake mode" and "scumlurker mode" before coming down on him hard.

If I somehow get time or motivation, I'll try to document the links I was seeing between ckd and tsn, but don't count on that happening

[Tarhalindur]

Wait, I still haven't been replaced?

Works for me, since I actually have enough free time to consider playing again (especially now that I'm not in any minis).

Retract Replacement Request

.

Give me a day to catch back up - IIRC, scumdar was CKD and TSN when I requested replacement, but that may change if I see something scummy. Or shiny, for that matter.

[Tarhalindur]

TSN kill?..interesting.

only one kill? farside did you submit one?

going to reread yesterday..but I still think that skitzer is the way to go.

It's funny how you are still after skitzer despite my claims that he's innocent. I remember farside said that she had Celebloki in her sights. I'm not one for WIFOM, but maybe someone else is.

Vote Celebloki

the same way I did yesterday.

I dont know what "innocent" means coming from you. You have not claimed anything..matter of fact, I think you claimed that you were not a cop. and since you have brought us to WIFOM territory..scum has not seemed to have worried about you last night (unless farside vigged TSPN, and you were protected, but I am still waiting for farside to check in). If/when skitzer flips scum, I know where my next vote will be going.

It's funny how you are still after skitzer despite my claims that he's innocent. I remember farside said that she had Celebloki in her sights. I'm not one for WIFOM, but maybe someone else is.

Vote Celebloki

the same way I did yesterday.

I dont know what "innocent" means coming from you. You have not claimed anything..matter of fact, I think you claimed that you were not a cop. and since you have brought us to WIFOM territory..scum has not seemed to have worried about you last night (unless farside vigged TSPN, and you were protected, but I am still waiting for farside to check in). If/when skitzer flips scum, I know where my next vote will be going.

I thought I dropped enough hints as to what I was, but maybe it wasn't obvious enough. The thing is, skitzer's not going to be lynched. I'll do my best to see to that. I'm 100% certain that he's protown.

well, ask BM, I am daft...I am not sure what you have soft claimed.

do you have any knowledge about Cele that we should know, or is your vote based on a hunch?

It's funny how you are still after skitzer despite my claims that he's innocent. I remember farside said that she had Celebloki in her sights. I'm not one for WIFOM, but maybe someone else is.

Vote Celebloki

the same way I did yesterday.

I dont know what "innocent" means coming from you. You have not claimed anything..matter of fact, I think you claimed that you were not a cop. and since you have brought us to WIFOM territory..scum has not seemed to have worried about you last night (unless farside vigged TSPN, and you were protected, but I am still waiting for farside to check in). If/when skitzer flips scum, I know where my next vote will be going.

I thought I dropped enough hints as to what I was, but maybe it wasn't obvious enough. The thing is, skitzer's not going to be lynched. I'll do my best to see to that. I'm 100% certain that he's protown.

well, ask BM, I am daft...I am not sure what you have soft claimed.

do you have any knowledge about Cele that we should know, or is your vote based on a hunch?

I don't know if he's scum, but if you had read my analysis of Peers you'd know that it's more than a hunch. This is an interesting stance for you considering that yesterday you said you were fine with my soft claim.

I am/was fine with the claim, because I didnt want to bring attention to you yesterday..thought you would be killed..I am surprised that you are alive today (again, I didnt start to conversation into the WIFOM). But there was only one kill, so there is a good chance that you might have been targetted (still waiting for farside).

Not sure why you find the statement interesting...you are sure that skitzer is town, so there should be no issues.

My problem is, that Skitzer is just pinging my radar...for example..what was with his last post? Seems like a smoke screen...

Skitzer, is there any kind of analysis to go with that post, or are you wanting other people to do it, so you can agree with which sounds the best?

TSN kill?..interesting.

only one kill? farside did you submit one?

going to reread yesterday..but I still think that skitzer is the way to go.

What's interesting about a TSN kill in your opinion?

just thought there were better targets for both mafia and farside...will explore this topic more once farside checks in and I reread.

TSN kill?..interesting.

only one kill? farside did you submit one?

going to reread yesterday..but I still think that skitzer is the way to go.

What's interesting about a TSN kill in your opinion?

just thought there were better targets for both mafia and farside...will explore this topic more once farside checks in and I reread.

Why do you think that Farside would have taken a pop at Matt? 0.o

BM

I dont...if the mafia took a stab at Matt, then farside must have killed TSPN...I think there was probably scummy targets other than TSPN

well, i guess I cant go against logic.

vote celebloki

Okay, I can see two urgent priorities:

celebloki needs to claim.
Curiouskarmadog (aka "scum") needs to die.

I'll PBPA when I can/when celebloki claims or is going to be replaced (whichever comes first) - for now, suffice it today his behavior today (and on Day 1) and the TSN kill last night when there were, IMO, several better targets in the game both give me the strong impression that he is scum.

Vote: Curiouskarmadog
HoS: celebloki

(he's at L-1, I don't want the wagon to disappear before he has the, shall we say, opportunity to claim.)

[Tarhalindur]

First, I must ask: armlx, from where did you acquire this picture? It looks suspiciously familiar somehow.

Second: Hammertime, you say? I can go with that, we'll deal with CKD tomorrow.

Unvote, Vote: celebloki

Third: If celebloki is scum, then I request that Farside vig me tonight. Hell, farside should vig either myself or CKD even if celebloki is town.

[Tarhalindur]

CKD is still alive? This needs to be rectified.

Vote: Curiouskarmadog

[Tarhalindur]

@Tar,

Its been a bit, can you give me a recap on CKD?

Why CKD looks like scum to me:
- Reaction to N1 deaths (Sucks For Us! tell)
- Selective Scumhunting (the two players he seemed to want dead the most were killa seven and BM, the two players he thought were non-Mafia scum)
- The TSPN kill makes the most sense to me if CKD is scum (I know, WIFOM)
- The way he got off of Rosso seems forced (see his posts on April 15).
- Mafia Roleblocker comment (see Tuesday, April 29 post)
- His "okay, lynch me" Day 4 looks like a gambit to me (need to check who proposed the "vig CKD instead" line of reasoning, that person may be CKD's scumbuddy)
- His play here looks somewhat closer to his play in Thespival (where he was scum) than recent CKD-town games.

I'm also suspicious of CKD's behavior towards TS, but that could just be playstyle.

Do you think TS is scummy?

Hadn't gotten around to reading her in isolation until last night. She's scum.

Please note:

- Selective Scumhunting (note how bloodthirsty she was towards killa D1, and her reasoning for going after BM D3)
- Behavior towards CKD D2 and D3 could be distancing

Also needs watching/reread: Korlash.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP:

HoS: TS, FoS: Korlash

TS HoS goes to vote if CKD wagon goes nowhere.

[Tarhalindur]

Sorry, I'm 95% sure I know what Matt_S is claiming, and that means Skitzer's town. Nice try, scum - trying to protect your Roleblocker?

Unvote, UnHoS, Vote: Toaster Strudel, HoS: Curiouskarmadog

(Note: I treat a HoS as a fakevote)

I'll switch back to CKD if the TS wagon dies down.

[Tarhalindur]

I knew Tar would find a reason to once again jump on the major wagon..

unvote, vote tar.

CKD, I've seen your play enough that you *know* about some of my oddities/bad habits as town.

Care to point out the parts of my play that don't fit my town meta?

[Tarhalindur]

All we have are undenied hints of masonry. Matt_S is supposedly a mason, and is still alive? TSPN was killed over a heavily hinted mason? Excuse me if I'm skeptical.

Thank you for claiming scum.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm not saying Matt_S is scum, but it's odd that the claim was not challenged. Recently I was in a mini modded by Skruffs, Contagion Mafia, where the scum claimed masons and won the game that way.

I know we always say that scum mason claims are doomed but in that case, it carried the mafia to the win. So I'm a little more leery of mason claims now than I used to be, I don't take them for granted.

And I say you're scum because you're intentionally outing town power roles (especially since it should have been clear from Matt_S's behavior that if he was mason - which I wasn't completely sure about, there was another role he could have been - his group pretty much had to be mod-confirmed).

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, that does it, I need *another* reread. >.<

[Tarhalindur]

Notes from what I've managed to reread so far:

I could see Bogre being scum, especially given Imat's behavior (he looks very guilty of IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis, which is prioritizing Mafia theory and summary over scumhunting) after a reread, and that's my most reliable tell of late). Problem is, he's completely inactive, so it'll be difficult to get anything out of him, so he's a bit lower on my priority list.

Mod: Please prod/replace Bogre

I'm not sure about BM: oEJo's interactions with Khelvaster looked fairly legit (haven't finished the oEJo isolation read), but jackalbane was scummy as all hell. Xtoxm I'm not yet sure of.

Armlx needs a second look, but my first impression is that he's guilty of IIoA.

I'll refrain from commenting on Incognito until Mini 594 is over, and I probably need to reread TS in Mafia 78. Pending that, TS still looks like scum.

I think TS is scum.. happy with my vote.

Let's see... you think TS is scum... you're voting me... either you're disingenuous scum or you lost your presence of mind.

Wait, that's not an either-or proposition.

Unvote, Vote: Curiouskarmadog

More to come.

[Tarhalindur]

I smell bussing in the current TS/CKD squabble.

Also, while looking at an ongoing thread I noticed a player who was actually active in it: Bogre. You know, the same guy who hasn't posted here for almost TWO MONTHS and never asked for replacement (and his predecessor was scummy to boot). We probably need to deal with him at some point.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, screw it. Something needs to happen.

Original Roll String: 1d15

1 15-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Tarhalindur]

Unvote, Vote: Skitzer

Wait, he's vouched for, and CKD is still scum.

Unvote, Vote: Curiouskarmadog

[Tarhalindur]

This game has gotten to the point where I don't really care how epically I fail in it.

In other words: I reached epic fail on Day 5, get over it already.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, screw this, let's go after one scum we can probably all agree on getting rid of: Bogre, who's lurked like hell here and whose predecessor was obvscum.

Unvote, Vote: Bogre

We need a good wagon, and soon. Hell, wagon me to death if you want - lynching town would be better than the game-crushing inactivity we have right now.

[Tarhalindur]

I've PMed Jordan. He picked up the PM. He still hasn't posted the lynch scene. Or a vote count, for that matter.

[Tarhalindur]

... supposedly, at least.

I'm starting to think we should just put this thing out of its misery unless we can get a new, active mod (I'd be willing to volunteer for taking over as Mod if needed).

[Tarhalindur]

So, I used this rather long night to take a look at several other players who I've been neglecting to read. Specifically, I looked at the predecessors of several

Quick thoughts:

Armlx's scumdar, with one big exception (namely me, and I can understand why armlx would get confused considering how scummily I've played this game) is GOLDEN: rereading Antithesis and Xtoxm makes it blatantly clear that they are both major, major IIoA offenders. Also note that oEJo voted for BOTH known Mafiosos, and Killa popped up as soon as he got a whiff of attention today after inactivity yesterday. I'd support either lynch.

Korlash also has some scummy predecessors (especially mnowax), but not to the extent that the first two do.

After reading Incog, I'm reevaluating my stand on TS. I'll need to look over some games where Incog has been scum to be sure, but my initial read on him says that Incog was not scum while he was in the game. (I'm not sure that's still the case - now that armlx has come up vanilla, I'd say that if there's a Cult recruit still floating around, it's probably her, especially given her behavior towards Rosso D2 - but even if she is Cult she's a lesser threat and we can deal with her later.)

SpyreX needs a closer look (I didn't reread him as closely as I could have) - Andycyca was unusually contentless before he got replaced, and on first glance his play yesterday seems consistent with scum hunting rival scum.

I'm not sure about CKD right now, but he looks a little better than he did yesterday.

I'm leaning town on Tombolo right now, too - he's inactive, but anderson looked town when I reread him and Tombolo didn't do anything to change that.

I think Surye is probably town at the moment, based on his predecessor's play (thenextepisode's play here looks like his play in Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous, where he was town), though I should really compare his play here to his play in Meta Breaking to be sure.

Farside and masons are obvobvobvtown.

Vote: killa7

[Tarhalindur]

... I'll need to look over some games where Incog has been scum to be sure...

... and now that I have reread some games where Incog was scum (especially Nubigena), I am reexamining my initial conclusions. Incog doesn't vary that much between town and scum - the main differences are that his scum posts tend to be a little shorter, and he appears to be less prone to attacking and somewhat more willing to discuss theory [IIoA] as scum). As such, his play here (short posts, no attacks) is a null tell at best and scummy at worst.

My timing on looking over Incog's scum games is impeccable, I know.

I'll mull over this new line of thought for a bit. At the moment I'd still rather lynch killa or

BM

Something Awesome.

[Tarhalindur]

SpyreX needs a closer look (I didn't reread him as closely as I could have) - Andycyca was unusually contentless before he got replaced, and on first glance his play yesterday seems consistent with scum hunting rival scum.

I'd love more explanation from this. Here's a few questions to start the pot a brewin:

1.) Do we have proof of rival scum factions or is this just conjecture?

There are actually two important questions to ask: is there a second scum faction, and does the Mafia think there is a second scum faction? Even if only the latter applies, Selective Scumhunting may be applicable.

1) There definitely WAS a Cult and there definitely WAS a Serial Killer, so the Selective Scumhunting tell should apply (for D1 at the very least, with a longer-lasting effect if the Mafia thinks there are surviving Cultists.

(As for the question that I think you were trying to ask - is there a second scum faction still in the game? We can be pretty sure that there aren't any non-Mafia scum with kills in the game, so no second Mafia or SK. We can't prove, however, the existence or nonexistence of the Cult - it depends on how the Cult recruiter worked. (I strongly suspect that the Cult is somehow related to the N1 poison kill - the question is whether the kill was caused by the recruit attempt itself or by a new Cultist getting to send in a kill.)

2) It was blatantly obvious that Killa was SK at the end of D1, and I suspect that the Mafia thought that there was a Cult on D2 at least (especially if TS is Mafia, given how hard she went after Rosso). Selective Scumhunting should be applicable.

2.) How would scum hunting rival scum be different than town hunting scum? (since you imply a definite difference there).

The difference isn't so much how scum hunt scum so much as it is WHO they hunt - if a player in a multiple scum faction game is hunting for all scum except for one specific group, it's fairly likely that said player is a member of the group they ignore. (It's a useful enough tell for me that I have a shorthand to refer to it - Selective Scumhunting.)

For a good example of this, look at my play in Stargate SG-1 (where I was Gou'Ald and used every excuse possible to avoid looking for Gou'Ald while aggressively hunting Replicators (and the SK, though I thought he was a Replicator).

3.) Why is it today, versus all of yesterday, that you bring this up?

Because I only took the time to look at your predecessor overnight?

Because we actually caught a scum yesterday and I finally have something to work with?

Because I'm finally starting to get interested in this game again?

I'd give you an FoS, but really, whats the point.

Go on, FoS me. You know you want to.

[Tarhalindur]

1) There definitely WAS a Cult and there definitely WAS a Serial Killer, so the Selective Scumhunting tell should apply (for D1 at the very least, with a longer-lasting effect if the Mafia thinks there are surviving Cultists.

Fair enough. With the Recruiter dead when he was and the SK dead (and the fact we haven't seen non-vig claimed kills) I haven't been thinking about a cult (I assumed with recruiter dead the cult couldn't recruit, so).

However, in my instance, I could see calling me out for tunnel vision but, really I've been about as Selective as you can get, just kill TScum and we will go from there.

The difference isn't so much how scum hunt scum so much as it is WHO they hunt - if a player in a multiple scum faction game is hunting for all scum except for one specific group, it's fairly likely that said player is a member of the group they ignore. (It's a useful enough tell for me that I have a shorthand to refer to it - Selective Scumhunting.)

Agreed, but again this is in reference to me so I'm not seeing how its applicable.

Because I only took the time to look at your predecessor overnight?

Because we actually caught a scum yesterday and I finally have something to work with?

Because I'm finally starting to get interested in this game again?

1.) Fair enough.

2.) Borge being scum gives something to work with on me?

3.) I understand 350%.

Go on, FoS me. You know you want to.

Actually, now, I dont. You are right that the possible existence of a Cult could cause some of the above. I'm still not sure how -I- fall into this but I know you'll explain.

I think I understand the disconnect here - you seem to be operating under the assumption that I am saying that you've been committing some of these tells, while I was under the assumption that you were asking me to explain my general reasoning. (As a matter of fact, there was a reason why you couldn't understand why some of my statements would be a reference to you - namely, that they

weren't

a reference to you.)

You are nowhere near the top of my scumdar, SpyreX - the two big reasons I'm uneasy about you are 1) Andy felt funny when I read him (I can't quantify it right now - I need to look for specifics when I get time - but something seemed off) and 2) by process of elimination, if there are 5 scum remaining you're likely to be one of them.

I think a venture into setup speculation may be appropriate here:

There are either 4 or 5 scum remaining in the game, with the exact number almost entirely dependent on how the recruiter worked (given the size of the game and the existence of a dead Cult Recruiter and SK, I'd be surprised if there aren't exactly 4 surviving Mafia).

There are 13 players remaining in the game.

From where I'm sitting, 6 players are clear or all-but-clear: the masons, farside, our remaining protective role (probably a normal Doctor), and myself by axiom. Five of these players' identities are known (farside, MattS, Skitzer, KScope, and myself).

That, for my purposes, leaves 8 surviving unknowns (TS, BM, killa7, Korlash, SpyreX, Surye, CKD, Tombolo), of whom one can instantly confirm themself. Of these 8, I'm now pretty sure that CKD is town, and I'm going to assume that Tombolo is town for now (he read town when I looked over him, and even if he is scum he's not an immediate threat).

I'm pretty sure at this point that TS, BM, and killa7 are all scum (either 1 Cult, 2 Mafia or 3 Mafia).

That leaves either one or two scum out of {Korlash, SpyreX, Surye}. At the moment, I'd say that Korlash is probably scum (he has the scummiest predecessors and, while I'm not confident in my ability to read Korlash himself I do think that something's off about him - I need to reread MTG 1-shot).

If there is a fifth scum, however, I'm pretty sure that it's either Surye or you, and judging by predecessors alone, thenextepisode looked more like town than Andy did (I should know, he was town in Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous), so as things stand I think you're slightly more likely to be scum than Surye is.

Note: I've played with Surye before, so I've started a reread on him (I need to compare his play here to his play in other games in general and Mafia 78 in particular). I'm going to pay close attention to his recent push for a TS lynch - he bussed the hell out of Rosso for the win in Mafia 78, and I need to see if he's doing it again here.

Finally, after mulling it over, I'm going to use my vote more effectively by joining the local bandwagon. TS is likely to be some kind of scum, why shouldn't we lynch her?

Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel

That's lynch-2. Toaster Strudel, claim or die.

[Tarhalindur]

Korlash - it looks like we're about to part ways...

Why are Surye and Spyrex still alive? Never have I seen such blatantly manipulative scumbags.

I really must thank Toaster Strudel for claiming Mafia.

See, not only is that NOT a claim when TS is in claim or die territory, but that last post is also the kind of post made by a Mafioso who knows she's caught and is trying to do as much damage as possible before she dies. Hell, the first thing I thought of when I looked at it was the post I made when I gave up in Mini 594.

I have a couple of things I'd like to get down before going to night, then I'm ready to proceed with the lynch.

LOCK ON: Toaster Strudel

[Tarhalindur]

I think I understand the disconnect here - you seem to be operating under the assumption that I am saying that you've been committing some of these tells, while I was under the assumption that you were asking me to explain my general reasoning. (As a matter of fact, there was a reason why you couldn't understand why some of my statements would be a reference to you - namely, that they weren't a reference to you.)

Now, that makes sense. Yes, I thought the whole mess was applying to me and i was confused - now that I understand I definitely agree with you on most of it. A few questions though:

Five of these players' identities are known (farside, MattS, Skitzer, KScope, and myself).

Are you actually cleared or is this the "I know my alignment" conjecture? (I've honestly lost track of some things this game so this is just a question).

That would be the latter option.

I'm pretty sure at this point that TS, BM, and killa7 are all scum (either 1 Cult, 2 Mafia or 3 Mafia)

Agreed.

I'm now pretty sure that CKD is town, and I'm going to assume that Tombolo is town for now (he read town when I looked over him, and even if he is scum he's not an immediate threat).

Why CKD town? He's been scummy and I wouldn't put a bus past him (or different scum group).

Also, I honestly forgot about Tombolo - again, why town?

I only ask because I'd say Suyre has a more "town" vibe than either of the above. I do agree about Korlash though. Of course, I dont agree about myself but.

CKD has never been replaced. I will not go into detail about how this is important at this time.

My read on Tombolo is based mainly on a) good vibes from andersonw and b) Tombolo's inactivity (which makes him a bad choice for lynching while better targets - and by "better targets" I mean killa7, BM, and Korlash - are in the game.

Also, I advise everyone (including myself) to take a look at Surye in Mafia 78, paying particular note to the Rosso bus D2.

That's lynch-2. Toaster Strudel, claim or die.

Only one mistake. It should be claim AND die.

Well, considering what she claimed I have to agree!

Final note: After SpyreX's last few posts, I'm getting much better vibes from him. I'm pretty sure he's town at this point.

[Tarhalindur]

Never mind...

Unvote

.

First thought: Considering the new situation... massclaim time?

Second thought: time to update the scumdar...

Very likely scum:
Killa7
Something Awesome

Likely scum:
Korlash
curiouskarmadog
Surye (Mafia 78 mk. II?)

Leaning town:
Tombolo
SpyreX

Town:
Toaster Strudel (barring counterclaim)
Masons
farside22

Knows he's town, your mileage may vary:
Tarhalindur

I'll explain more if needed later - I'm a bit low on time at the moment.

Unvote, Vote: killa7

for now - I'm most sure about him being scum.

[Tarhalindur]

Wait a minute... unless I'm very much mistaken, I just saw the real doc counterclaim.

Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel

[Tarhalindur]

First: Toaster Strudel, fullclaim or be given what a toaster deserves. (Namely, execution - preferably out of range of a Resurrection Ship.) The fact that, if you are claiming a reasonable protective role and are not countered, you are pretty much confirmed town should be an incentive here.

Second... CKD, you've piqued my interest for much the same reason that Matt_S piqued it earlier. I want to see some explanation from you.

FoS: curiouskarmadog

Third, where's SpyreX? I want to see his reactions to all this, and he's gone and pulled a disappearing act.

Fourth, I still want to know what everyone else thinks about doing a massclaim. (I'll go first if you want.)

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, now I'm damn sure that Toaster Strudel is pulling the same sort of shit that I pulled as cornered Goon in Mini 594 (with the caveat that, in the unlikely event that I am mistaken here, SpyreX is 100% scum).

Also, killa7 is TS's scumbuddy. I'm actually still willing to lynch killa7 instead of TS, as I have him pegged as Mafia Roleblocker.

[Tarhalindur]

Let's see... vanilla claim... only started participating when your ass came under fire... scummy-as-all-hell predecessor... I've liked this wagon for ages...

Unvote, Vote: killa seven

Next stop: SpyreX (given the way he reacted to TS, I've been certain since Saturday that he is either scum or Doctor, and since he's not doctor he's scum).

[Tarhalindur]

12 alive, probably no fewer than four surviving Mafiosos. We're one day away from LyLo.

We massclaim today. Period. I'm willing to start if needed.

[Tarhalindur]

Most annoyingly, I am vanilla town in this incarnation.

I'll comment further once massclaim is done.

Carry on!

[Tarhalindur]

I am a tad short on time, so I'll have to make this short. Expect more either later tonight or tomorrow.

We have a claimed neutral survivor.

At this stage in the game, a neutral survivor is effectively a Mafioso.

1) If Surye is telling the truth (granted, a big if), then we are almost certainly at LyLo (7 town, 5 Mafia). Everyone needs to unvote. NOW.

2) Surye claimed scum. He's either Neutral Survivor, Mafia, or Cult. None of those are pro-town (in fact, Surye as surviving Cult is the best-case scenario). Why are we not lynching him?

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, now that I actually have some spare time and no more pressing priorities...

Point 1: I miscounted earlier when I thought we were at LyLo (seven to lynch and presumably 4 Mafia + Survivor who should be voting with Mafia at LyLo, so the Mafia cannot force the lynch tomorrow even if we mislynch). The other, unspoken reason for my massclaim push, however, remains: I asked for the massclaim because I was fairly sure that, barring a counterclaim, all of our power roles were exposed as of Toaster Strudel claiming. (That's why I started pushing for massclaim immediately after TS claimed Doc.)

This is a damn good thing, IMO, because if Toaster Strudel is lying I become the mislynch we have left.

First: Toaster Strudel has shot a portion of her credibility by not concluding that Korlash is lying when this would be the logical conclusion if she was telling the truth. (Also, today is Day 9, TS...)

Second: I have severe reservations about (read: do not buy) Korlash's Tracker claim, based on a few factors: his refusal to claim earlier (which would have ensured Toaster Strudel's death yesterday), his failure to claim his targets and results, and most importantly the game balance (we have had two cops and three supposedly confirmed-town masons plus what is probably a somewhat undermanned Mafia - if Korlash is telling the truth, then I'd say that either the balance is screwy or the so-called Masons are ALL lying scum).

This does not necessarily mean that Korlash is scum, however - there is one other relevant possibility here

Third: I'm pretty damn sure CKD is scum at this point, almost entirely based on the claim. First, Nurse is a (horrible) role which I have not seen used in some time - I would have reservations about buying a Nurse claim even if it had come on Day 1. Second, the existence of a Nurse is even less likely given that we have a Doctor (or equivalent) still out there and a dead Bodyguard and modified Hider with no evidence of more than two non-Vanilla Mafiosos - my game balance sense says that Nurse + the three roles we have already seen would be seriously imbalanced for the town, even with a Cult.

At this point, I am pretty sure that the Mafia consists of Toaster Strudel, curiouskarmadog, SpyreX, and one of the inactives (either Something Awesome or Tombolo), with Surye as either Survivor or Cult (hopefully Cult, since Cult votes with us at LyLo and Survivor does not). Of these, I am least sure about SpyreX (we could have two inactive scum).

More later.

[Tarhalindur]

If there was no nightkill yesterday though I didn't send a protection on anybody, that only means one thing, the scum didn't send a kill. So the scum is probably a lurker, and there may only be one player. Does that make sense yes no?

No, it does not. Given that this is a thirty-player game and there are only two dead Mafia, I would be amazed if we do not have four surviving Mafia (plus Surye the neutral/Cult). Those surviving Mafiosos can't all be inactive (especially since KScope scum would require both of the other claimed masons to be scum, which would mean that there should be at least 1 active scum.

I still don't think Korlash is telling the truth (though I DO think he is town). You just finally succeeded in convincing me that you aren't telling the truth either.

Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel

[Tarhalindur]

I will go along with that, despite knowing that I'm town, since I'm pretty sure we have a win here (so long as Gorrad does not find a replacement for Tombolo before Day 11).

Korlash is the Doctor. The Masons are confirmed town (since there are now too few surviving Mafiosos to make the "all masons are scum" scenario impossible). Surye is either Survivor or Cult, and can be left until endgame.

Lynch me today, Korlash dies tonight (7 alive). Tomorrow, lynch CKD (I'm all-but-certain he's Mafia, given his claim), then a Mason dies overnight (5 alive).

If CKD is not the Roleblocker, lynch SpyreX on the following day (since the Roleblocker has to be an active player and Tombolo has not been active), then lynch Surye if the SpyreX lynch does not end the game (I will replace in for Tombolo D11 to allow this to happen if needed).

If CKD is the Roleblocker and there is a kill N10, then the last Mafia must be active and Tombolo is not, so lynch SpyreX. If the game does not end with SpyreX's lynch then Surye must be scum (either Cult or Mafia) - if this is the case, I will replace in for Tombolo (if Gorrad permits it) to allow the victory.

If CKD is the Roleblocker and there is no kill N10, then we have a tricky situation - two confirmed town (presumably Masons) and three unconfirmeds, of which one is inactive. I believe the correct play here is to lynch Surye (eliminating the possibility that he is scum).

If Surye is Mafia, the game should be over.
If Surye is Cult or Survivor and there is a kill (meaning that the last Mafioso is active), then I will replace in for Tombolo on Day 12, if permitted, and we lynch SpyreX for the win.
If Surye is Cult or Survivor and there is no kill after we lynch Surye (4 alive), then we lynch SpyreX (3 alive, only possible surviving scum inactive) and lynch Tombolo the next day for the win.

The big flaw here is if CKD is somehow town (then we either have to hope that Surye is a helpful survivor or hope that Surye is lying Mafia, otherwise we either lose outright (to Mafia + Survivor) or are in a Kingmaker position between Mafia and Cult).

Vote: Tarhalindur

[Tarhalindur]

I'll let Korlash eat his crow tomorrow (he's right that I should be lynched, because my play has been horrible, but he's wrong about alignment).

Also, I'm sure CKD is scum for the exact same reason why I was sure Korlash was lying (no way do we have a nurse when we also have a doctor, a bodyguard, and a weak hider).

[Tarhalindur]

Oh, fuck. That is horrible, horrible news, Gorrad.

No matter, there's no way I can defend myself today short of actions that would get me modkilled.

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, I've been thinking it over.

Unvote

for now, since I don't see a way to guarantee a town victory here if CKD is the Mafia Roleblocker.

We have 9 players alive (all active except maybe KScope), of which 4 are all-but-confirmed town (Korlash, Matt_S, Skitzer, and KScope). Given the numbers, I sincerely doubt we have more than 3 surviving scum, so we don't lose to a mislynch (the main reason why I am willing to be lynched).

First, Grimmy needs to claim.

Surye has to die immediately after a mislynch (since Survivor should, theoretically, vote with scum at endgame). There may be merit to lynching Surye first (since if Surye is Mafia then we pretty much win on the spot due to having 2 mislynches and CKD being scum).

I would prefer that we lynch CKD before me, both because I know I'm town and because if CKD comes up as any Mafia role other than Roleblocker then Grimmy is cleared and we have a guaranteed victory (any one of "lynch Tar (4-1 next morning), lynch Surye, town wins", "lynch Tar (3-1-1 next morning), lynch Surye (2-1 next morning), lynch SpyreX, town wins", "lynch SpyreX, town and Survivor win", and "lynch SpyreX (4-1 next morning), lynch Surye, town wins").

If I am lynched today then you should lynch Surye tomorrow (to avoid Survivor voting with scum), CKD the day after that, and then either the game ends (if CKD and Surye are both Mafia) or the last surviving confirmed town chooses between SpyreX and Grimmy (which is amazingly easy if CKD comes up non-roleblocker Mafia).

I'll try to get up a full case on CKD ASAP (either for today or for 2 days from now) after Grimmy has claimed.

[Tarhalindur]

I'd definitely want to lynch Surye third, if we need to do so. Especially if tarh or ckd is Maf and the game has not concluded.

If we lynch town today Surye ABSOLUTELY, 100% MUST DIE TOMORROW (always assume that Survivors vote with scum at endgame).

[Tarhalindur]

I'd definitely want to lynch Surye third, if we need to do so. Especially if tarh or ckd is Maf and the game has not concluded.

If we lynch town today Surye ABSOLUTELY, 100% MUST DIE TOMORROW (always assume that Survivors vote with scum at endgame).

Except that I vote with town, and if you lynch me at lylo, town loses. Nice try.

Except that I calculate Neutral Survivors as MAFIA for the purposes of LyLo calculations (otherwise LyLo would be two days from now instead of tomorrow). Nice try.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP (hit post too quickly):

Also, I don't buy your "I vote with town" one bit, Surye. If you're a Survivor, then your optimal play is to vote with Mafia at endgame, and I'm not going to buy any promises that you will do otherwise. If you are Cult, then you vote with town tomorrow and screw us over afterwards (a Cult/Mafia/townie endgame is a kingmaker situation for the townie). If you are Mafia, then you don't vote with town for obvious reasons.

If you want to help out the town, you should probably help us catch both surviving Mafiosos starting today... because we can't afford to let you survive tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

I've been trying to create a complete list of scenarios that we could find ourselves in if we follow my plan. I will include a few scenarios which I know to be impossible (namely, scenarios in which I am scum) because I am the only player who can rule those scenarios out.

If CKD is non-roleblocker scum: we win (since the Mafia Roleblocker must have been active when farside was blocked, ergo Grimmy becomes cleared).

If CKD is the Mafia Roleblocker and Surye is Mafia: we win (since we can't afford to leave Surye alive if we are 1 day from LyLo, so we will lynch him Day 10 or Day 11 for the win).

If CKD is the Mafia Roleblocker and one of SpyreX, Grimmy, or Tarhalindur is Mafia: Theoretically, we have a 66% chance of victory in any of these scenarios (2 lynches to find 1 scum). I personally feel that this is an optimistic assessment (since I'm assuming that I will be lynched either tomorrow or Day 11, and if this is the case then given what I know the probability here is closer to 50%).

If CKD is town and Surye is non-roleblocker Mafia: We win (since the Mafia Roleblocker must have been active when farside was blocked, ergo Grimmy becomes cleared) after lynching Surye tomorrow (since we cannot afford not to).

If CKD is town and two of SpyreX, Grimmy, and Tarhalindur are Mafia: Theoretically, we have a 33% chance of winning (2/3 x 1/2). I personally assume that this situation is an almost certain loss (since I'm assuming that in this scenario I will be lynched for the loss Day 11).

If there is only 1 surviving scum: we autowin. Even in the worst-case scenario, where we reach Day 12 (where there should be three players alive) without lynching any Mafia and the game is still ongoing, then Grimmy becomes clear (since, again, the Mafia Roleblocker must have been active to block farside) and we lynch the unconfirmed for the win.

I haven't yet completely worked through the scenarios where there are 3 or 4 surviving Mafia. They appear to be far less favorable than the above scenarios, however (all such scenarios place us in either virtual (Mafia + Survivor) or true LyLo and I am assuming that I will be lynched at some point) - at least one such scenario is an autoloss (masons are lying scum), but I consider that scenario very, very unlikely.

I'd rather not end the day just yet, since I want to look over SpyreX and Tombolo, and I want Grimmy to claim. When I am ready to end the day, I will vote CKD (or myself if I am to be lynched today).

[Tarhalindur]

First: I'm still waiting on Grimmy's claim myself...

Mod: Can we have a big fat PROD on Grimmy?

Second: I forgot one 2-Mafia scenario earlier - If CKD is town and Surye is the Mafia Roleblocker: Theoretically, we have a 66% chance of victory in any of these scenarios (2 lynches to find 1 scum). I personally feel that this is an optimistic assessment (since I'm assuming that I will be lynched Day 11, and if this is the case then given what I know the probability here is closer to 50%).

Third: Korlash, stop being an idiot - not for the request to lynch me today (that's not necessarily idiotic), but for calling players "self-important worthless martyrs" when we're TRYING TO WIN THE GAME here. Also, we'll be lynching CKD Day 11 if I'm lynched today (since Surye has to be lynched tomorrow in that case).

Fourth: I've looked over SpyreX's play since replacing in. Given the way he went after TS, I'd say that either he's town or he's a Tarhalindur-style busser (see Stargate SG-1 and Mini 594 for good examples of Tarhalindur-style bussing). If we can't get an autowin by clearing Grimmy, then I suspect that our actual scum here are either CKD/Grimmy or Surye/Grimmy (can't be just Grimmy due to the Roleblocker issue).

[Tarhalindur]

also, I agree somewhat that the whole selflessness of tar and ckd has thrown a wrench into my outlook of things. there is somethign behind it, but i cannot tell if it is for the towns good or a hell of a scum ploy.

Grimmy
torn

That looks suspiciously like a scum response to my attempt to break the game open.

Somehow I don't think Grimmy is going to be confirmed town anytime soon... but you guys can deal with that later.

[Tarhalindur]

No. tar has shown inside knowledge to my claim only scum would know

No, even as a vanilla townie it was quite easy to figure out your real role with just a basic understanding of logic (based on information available from the beginning of Day 9) and game balance.

Logic: At end of massclaim there were at most 3 players who could be Doctor (Masons cannot be scum, I knew I wasn't the Doctor, SpyreX would not have held fire about TS if he was the real Doc, CKD would not have claimed Nurse if he was the real Doc, Tombolo was inactive after D3 and could not have prevented the N5 kill), leaving TS, SA, and you as possible Doctors. Since TS and SA both turned up as dead scum, you were the ONLY possible candidate for Doctor, ergo you were and are the Doctor.

Game Balance: Sane Cop + Cult Cop + 3 confirmed-innocent Masons + Tracker is too many investigative roles without serious Mafia power (which we have seen no sign of), even in a 30-player game. That's why I pushed for the massclaim immediately after TS claimed Doc. That's why I was sure that you weren't a Tracker. It's also why I'm sure that CKD is lying scum (Doctor + Bodyguard + Nurse would be imbalanced without serious Mafia power, and that's not even counting the Drug Dealer).

and he swung the lynch from TS (Scum) to K7 (Town) two days ago. He's almost certain scum just for that right there.

Misrepresentation - as far as I can tell, I didn't push the killa seven wagon (sure, I wanted him lynched and was the main player supporting an eventual K7 lynch, but I didn't switch off of pushing TS's lynch until after it was clear killa was the lynch), it simply progressed once a few players (mainly farside and yourself, AFAICT) decided to leave TS be for a while and jumped on the first available alternative.

Seriously, if you're going to make a case on me, do it for the right reasons - say, my indecisive behavior towards Toaster Strudel's claim and my play before Bogre's lynch.

Just lynch Surye tomorrow and CKD after that, will you? Lynch SpyreX Day 12 if you nail a non-Roleblocker Mafia before then; otherwise, I'd lean towards lynching Grimmy.

[Tarhalindur]

Logic: At end of massclaim there were at most 3 players who could be Doctor (Masons cannot be scum, I knew I wasn't the Doctor, SpyreX would not have held fire about TS if he was the real Doc, CKD would not have claimed Nurse if he was the real Doc, Tombolo was inactive after D3 and could not have prevented the N5 kill), leaving TS, SA, and you as possible Doctors. Since TS and SA both turned up as dead scum, you were the ONLY possible candidate for Doctor, ergo you were and are the Doctor.

I still don't think Korlash is telling the truth (though I DO think he is town). You just finally succeeded in convincing me that you aren't telling the truth either.

This above claim was made before TS or SA died. Meaning you were "convinsed I was lying" before either turned up scum, something you would not be able to have been convinsed about unless you KNEW neither of TS or SA were the doctor.(By your own logic)

So my orriginal point about you having inside knowledge still holds true. Die scum die, etc..

I seem to recall making an important caveat about the logic part of that post...

(based on information available from the beginning of Day 9)

Hmm, it's couldn't possibly be that my original disbelief of your claim was based entirely on game balance and my certainty was only applicable today...

BZZT! Sorry, wrong answer, try again tomorrow.

Misrepresentation - as far as I can tell, I didn't push the killa seven wagon (sure, I wanted him lynched and was the main player supporting an eventual K7 lynch, but I didn't switch off of pushing TS's lynch until after it was clear killa was the lynch), it simply progressed once a few players (mainly farside and yourself, AFAICT) decided to leave TS be for a while and jumped on the first available alternative.

Post 3895:

Also, killa7 is TS's scumbuddy. I'm actually still willing to lynch killa7 instead of TS, as I have him pegged as Mafia Roleblocker.

You may not have been the first person to vote... in fact you were like the 6th... but you started the whole "Lynch K7 over TS" argument... YOU came up with the argument "K7 is the mafia RB" so YOU are almost soley responcible for the switch from TS to K7. I myself only allowed TS to escape the lynch becuase I believed the Rb was more important and I didn't believe TS to be the RBer.

Funny, I never saw any players OTHER than you use the "k7 as Mafia Roleblocker" argument. As far as I can tell, the reason k7 got lynched was because every other person on the wagon decided not to lynch TS and killa was the default second option (in other words, the decision not to lynch TS was the ultimate cause of TS not getting lynched D7 and my post only decided who would get lynched instead).

Seriously, if you're going to make a case on me, do it for the right reasons - say, my indecisive behavior towards Toaster Strudel's claim and my play before Bogre's lynch.

Sure add that to my list then too. Case closed! ^^[/quote]

I agree that I'm a perfectly good lynch today (mostly because I need to be lynched at some point, partly to remind other players that, should you survive tonight, nobody should listen to you when deciding who to lynch because you absolutely fail at scumhunting). I'm just going to be an ass about using craplogic to lynch me when there is perfectly good logic available. Even if it is your well-deserved title.

Vote: Tarhalindur

[Tarhalindur]

I'm short on time, so I'll make this quick.

Best possibilities for the poison kill that I can think of are 1) somehow the cult killed the godfather through the delayed recruit or by a recruit gaining a kill (both possible but unlikely due to timing) and 2) Battle Mage's first incarnation had abilities other than the ones he claimed (Miller JoaT?).

Quick notes for Skitzer: I'm pretty sure Surye is lying, myself, but he can still wait until tomorrow (where we have to lynch him even in the best-case scenario). If he's a Mafia role other than Roleblocker, we autowin by clearing Grimmy. If he's the Roleblocker (I'd say that's fairly likely, myself) I'd venture that Grimmy is the second scumbag here.

If there is only one Mafia left then we've already won so long as we stick to my plan (since that clears Grimmy for reasons I explained earlier), so we don't need to worry about that scenario at all. If we've lynched three straight non-Mafia on Day 12 and the game isn't over, lynch SpyreX for the win.

We're probably lynching me today because a) Korlash is being an idiot by not acknowledging the win the game plan and I doubt he'll listen to logic until I become confirmed town (read: die) and b) I'd already factored my own death into my plan (either today or Day 11).

[Tarhalindur]

... unless CKD is somehow town, in which case you need to lynch Surye first.

Or unless you lynch me today, which might be a blessing given how glacial this game has been. I'm going to keep voting myself - if you want to lynch CKD ahead of me, be my guest, but I'm getting too tired of this game.

[Tarhalindur]

Lynch Surye for me tomorrow. You should know what to do after that.

[Tarhalindur]

I apologize for being made of epic FAIL in this game.

We won anyways, so it's all good.