Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[Lloyd]

Vote Khelvaster

[Lloyd]

random?

No; it was in response to your unvote.

I highly, highly doubt that we have two cults. That would be degenerate in this kind of game.

I agree.

I guess I should wait like everyone else.

Hm. I really don't want to vote for anybody without watching this a bit farther.

Not sure on who to vote yet.

If everyone waits, then we'll never lynch today, and no lynch is a bad idea on day 1.

Unvote

Vote: VanDamien

[Lloyd]

What the? You didn't even say anything about VanDamien.

Sometimes, less is more.

Your vote also doesn't seem to be anything more than random.

It was not random.

I voted for VanDamien because he has been vote-hopping throughout today.

[Lloyd]

Unvote

Vote: VanDamien

[Lloyd]

I voted for VanDamien because he has been vote-hopping throughout today.

[Lloyd]

armlx, I disagree with your assessment of "which is exactly the same as most people".

Looking at the vote count archive, Van Damien vote-hopped throughout the first 175 posts, more than anyone else.

If someone else vote-hopped with the same frequency, then I missed it.

When I filter the game by his posts ("Display posts ... by ..." at bottom of this web page), Van Damien seems to be jumping from one player to the next.

Even though he's currently voting for Charity, he's made two recent posts wanting to vote for thenextepsiode next.

You currently have your top 4 suspects, and I have my top suspect, and they aren't the same people. We probably won't agree / be on the same bandwagon until a deadline appears and one of us change our minds.

[Lloyd]

Townies can make mistakes. Scum won't tunnel vision other scum, but townies can tunnel vision other townies. This is a one-way link--if armlix is scum, you are town, but if he's town, you're undecided.

I disagree. I've seen a scum go after another scum on day 1.

Your defense of Battle Mage reminds me of oEJo's defense of Van Damien earlier.

[Lloyd]

Unvote

I'm satisfied with VanDamien's recent posts, and oEJo's subtle defense of VanDamien.

Pressuring lurkers is Good For The Town

It's been 20 days since you last posted...

Vote: Nanosauromo

[Lloyd]

lol i take it all back.

Unvote, Vote: TLP

we have ourselves a self-concious scumbag.

Matt S pinged my scumdar with his vote. Once we get a half decent explanation from Tlp, i think he's a good choice for our next dose of pressure.

First, you vote for Tlp because you think he's scummy.

Now, you're hinting at Tlp that he will lose your vote if he provides a "half decent explanation".

If you still think Tlp is scummy, and if you really want to pressure him, why would you even discuss who you want to wagon next?

[Lloyd]

On a serious note, I'm disliking Lloyd again.

FoS Lloyd

. I can't really think of a reason for someone not to comment on who they find scummy. I also looked back on his vote for Nanosauromo.

Pressuring lurkers is Good For The Town

It's been 20 days since you last posted...

Vote: Nanosauromo

After that, Lloyd disappeared for a week.

Lloyd: Post: 152 votes VanDamien with no explaination. Post 240 is pure BS> Lloyd revotes, doesn't provide any back up or real comments
Post 325 does not mention suspects just keeps looking at VanDamien. Post 454 calling my replacement a hypocrite with his hypocritical vote.

I don't understand why Matt_S has been waivering back and forth on me.

Regarding my vote on Nanosauromo, it was sarcasm directed at Nanosauromo.

As for my previous vote on Van Damien, I already explained the reasoning (Van Damien's vote hopping) when armlx asked earlier.

WhoMe asking for consensus on a deadline - I vote no. As much as I want to hammer and / or day kill someone like Rosso Carne, I would rather have the replacements filled first, before we have a deadline imposed.

[Lloyd]

EWBOP:

Instead of:
As much as I want to hammer and / or day kill someone like Rosso Carne

I meant to write:
As much as I want to hammer and / or day kill someone (just like how Rosso Carne wants to do it too)

[Lloyd]

Unvote

Vote: WhoMe?

(sarcasm implied)

[Lloyd]

That WhoMe? wagon went too fast, lets derail it!

Kill: WhoMe?

Unvote

Vote: Lloyd

[Lloyd]

Due to sheer number of votes and lack of time, I haven't analyzed the following enough to my own satisfaction yet. Once I think more about the data, I'll post my notes about patterns and / or irregularities.

For now, I want to share the table below, in case anyone else wants to examine the votes so far as well.

Vote Tally Table
Player listed on left voted for player listed on top in post #

[col] [col]Battle Mage [col]armlx [col]Imat (konehead) [col]skitzer [col]Rosso Carne [col]RossWilliam (SilverConqueror) [col]Andycyca (Fattierob) [col]thenextepisode [col]VanDamien (Glowie) [col]Incognito [col]Antithesis [col]farside22 (Nanosauromo) [col]oEJo [col]UnofficialRulerOfEveryone (QuickBen) [col]Charity [col]WhoMe? [col]TheSweatpantsNinja [col]Tlp [col]Nemesis [col]Matt_S [col]Peers (ThugBehram) [col]GSGold [col]Khelvaster [col]curiouskarmadog [col]andersonw [col]killa seven [col]Lloyd Battle Mage [col] [col] [col]291 [col] [col]108 [col] [col] [col]232 [col] [col] [col] [col]502 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]528 [col]8 [col]572 [col] [col] [col]7 [col] [col] [col]403, 698, 701 [col]689 armlx [col]37, 250 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]715 [col] [col] [col]395 [col] [col] [col]490 [col] [col] [col] [col]162 [col] [col] [col]106, 573 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]690 Imat (konehead) [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]542, 543 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]273 skitzer [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]533 [col] [col]34 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]520 [col] Rosso Carne [col] [col] [col]442 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]155 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] RossWilliam (SilverConquerer) [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]495 [col]333 [col] [col] [col] [col]710 [col]545 [col] [col]608 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] Andycyca (Fattierob) [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]113 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] thenextepisode [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] VanDamien (Glowie) [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]154 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]17, 117 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]44 [col] [col] Incognito [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]233, 420 [col] [col] [col] [col]14 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]54 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] Antithesis [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] farside22 (Nanosauromo) [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]184 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]596 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]706 [col] oEJo [col] [col] [col]547 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]215 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]328 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]46 [col]486 [col]684 UnofficialRulerOfEveryone (QuickBen) [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]602 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] Charity [col]80 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] WhoMe? [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]324 [col] [col] [col] [col]682 [col] [col]531 [col]11 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]685 TheSweatpantsNinja [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]148 [col] [col]319 [col] [col] [col]529 [col] [col]59 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]692 Tlp [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]509 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] Nemesis [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]79 [col]555 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] Matt_S [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]653 [col] [col]603 [col] [col]45 [col] [col] [col]192 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]540 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]181 Peers (ThugBehram) [col]67 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] GSGold [col]60 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] Khelvaster [col]22 [col]360 [col] [col] [col]426 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]242 [col] [col] [col]236, 330 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]552 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] curiouskarmadog [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]187 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]15 [col]71 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]686 andersonw [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]271 [col] [col]36 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] killa seven [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]85 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]693 Lloyd [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]152, 320 [col] [col] [col]454 [col] [col] [col] [col]681 [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col] [col]9 [col] [col] [col] [col]683

[Lloyd]

I have to claim my role as it is. I acknowledge that its a very scummy claim, but it benefits the town more to come forward early. I cant help what the Mod gave me. My play on the other hand, is genuine.

What do you mean by "on the other hand"?

What are you comparing your play to? Your role, your claim, or both?

Was your role disingenuous or dishonest?

Was your claim disingenuous or dishonest?

[Lloyd]

Semantically, if your play and claim are both genuine, then your "on the other hand" comparison makes no sense.

I'll try to illustrate...
---
play = genuine
claim = not genuine

They're on different hands.

Usage: On one hand, my play has been genuine. On the other hand, my claim has not been genuine.
---
play = genuine
claim = genuine

They're on the same hand, figuratively speaking

Usage: Both my play and claim have been genuine. On the other hand, scummy players' play have been disingenuous / not genuine.

[Lloyd]

In short, I'm confused by the point you were trying to make when you wrote "on the other hand" earlier.

[Lloyd]

TheSweatpantsNinja, I'm curious about your vote for Tlp.

In comparison, I find thenextepisode scummier than Tlp.
---
Battle Mage,

After some thought, I'm going to proxy my vote to you for today. I'm curious what you'll do with it.

Proxy to Battle Mage

The Proxy rule is explained at viewtopic.php?t=2974

[Lloyd]

You must have alot of faith in me as a scumhunter, and as far as affiliation goes. Or is this a test of sorts?

Miller masons vote as a bloc

[Lloyd]

because that's just my style, i don't vote early.

thenextepisode, beside playstyle, any other reasons why you don't vote early?

This is the first full sized game here that I was able to start in from the very beginning. My other games here I either joined into them after the wagon stuff was over, or it was a game with time and post limits, so band wagons were not going to be prevalent anyway. A majority of games I have played were offsite. They have all had 48 hour day phases and 24 hour night phases. There, literally, you can vote on someone and log off only to learn they were lynched an hour later.

So, maybe that is why I tend to be more cautious with my vote.

In contrast, I like Antithesis' explanation why he is more cautious with his vote than most players in this game.

[Lloyd]

dahill1, I'll explain what you are asking another time, but not now.

Lurkerscum are no threat if they really lurk.

Could you justify this statement? I find lurkerscum to be threats because they don't give any material to the town, so you don't think about them, and then they survive and are out of suspicion. This in its very nature is threatening, is it not?

Regarding lurkerscum, I agree with Khelvaster, and disagree with Kaleidoscope.

Lurkerscum is always a threat, because he / she can kill townies at night.

In a game of this size:
- 2 weeks: If someone doe not post every 2 weeks, he / she should be prodded
- 3 weeks: If someone doe not post every 3 weeks, he / she should be prodded a second time
- 4 weeks: If someone does not post after 4 weeks, he / she should be replaced unless he / she has a posting restriction

If someone does not post after 4 weeks, has no post restriction, AND Refuses to be replaced, then I am going to assume that he / she is scum.

[Lloyd]

rosso didn't vote me, he "killed" me.
he might be a dayvig, he might be joking.
either way, its not a vote, so theres only one vote on me from incognito.

/prodded

Post 674 is completely pointless, I wonder why nobody said anything about it.

I sorta missed post 674 in reading. He needs to post real content now.

I dislike thenextepisode's post 674 as well. If he doesn't post something useful by Mar 19th, then I'm going to assume that he's scum per my 4-week rule that I outlined a few posts ago.

[Lloyd]

on day 1, i feel like there are never any legitimate reasons to vote.

Your playstyle is different. I'll grant you that. I'm curious what you consider as legitimate reasons then.

- What do you consider as legitimate reasons to vote on day 2?

- Would they be reasons that don't exist on day 1?

[Lloyd]

I see no difference between the 2. The vig will kill if he finds someone scummy enough to kill them.

Agreed.

[Lloyd]

because that's just my style, i don't vote early.

thenextepisode, beside playstyle, any other reasons why you don't vote early?

because on day 1, i feel like there are never any legitimate reasons to vote.

Bullshit, liar.

unvote
vote: thenextepisode

Thenextepisode can be vigged later on. Killa Seven is the lynch today.

[Lloyd]

I am not directing the vig

noted

[Lloyd]

no, and i don't need to be self-conscious about it. the vig can direct himself, thank you very much.

lets get back to lynching killa seven.

[Lloyd]

I don't want to lynch CKD day 1

Agreed.

[Lloyd]

did you roll a die to pick the jive machine?

can you slit my throat tonight? much appreciated.

i picked throat slashing.

[Lloyd]

you didn't answer my question about rolling a die or not to pick jive machine.

throat slitting's too easy. how about if you run me over with a bus instead?

did you roll a die to pick the jive machine?

can you slit my throat tonight? much appreciated.

i picked throat slashing.

yes if thats what you want.[/quote

[Lloyd]

you didn't answer that question on page 39.

i'm asked you

how

you randomly picked jive machine

[Lloyd]

unlikely, because i doubt 1 vig can choose kill method, but the 2nd vig cannot

Is it possible they are both telling the truth?

It is possible. Is it likely? I'd say not.

[Lloyd]

uhm...ts and bm, vote counts are at:
http://www.quicktopic.com/41/H/nGY8JmZW6Lbht

What is this page 1 votecount business? I can't go back and do my vote analysis! OMG, how am I ever going to find scum....

thank god. Maybe now you can hunt scum like a normal human being?

[Lloyd]

Mod: What time zone is the 9pm deadline for?

timezone doesn't matter

killa seven only needs 7 votes to be lynched at the deadline

he already has 11 votes

13: In the case of a deadline, the person with the most votes at deadline will be lynched, but only if they have at least half the required votes needed for a normal lynch (rounded up). In the case of a tie, the first to reach the number of votes that the players are tied at will be lynched.

[Lloyd]

i disagree with extending the deadline.

unlike most, i find late-day-1-discussions to be counter-productive. we should just lynch killa-seven and go into the night.

if the deadline gets extended, then i'll be asking for a replacement.

farside, i no longer suspect van damien because i noticed his connection to ojeo / jacklebane.

if you want to shotgun me tonight, the choice is yours. more likely than not, we'll probably both be dead tomorrow morning, so i see little point in dragging this on any longer.

[Lloyd]

BM has asked me to claim twice now...

I am a viggee. I win when I am vigged

[Lloyd]

farside, what you seem to be asking, is that if i was in your position, what i would do.

if i was in your position, i would be trigger happy and shoot battle mage and see what happens. worse case, a miller is lost. best case, a scum is shot.

for what it's worth, i now think battle mage has a night power, given him asking people to claim "not vig". then, upon finding two claimed vigs...asking xtoxm and i to claim, then pointing out nemesis' breadcrumbs. it doesn't match up with his miller claim though. and yes, he'll continue to claim miller until he's lynched in this game...

anyhow, i claimed viggee. you should make up your opinion / position about who you want to shoot. it's your prerogative.
---
on a completely unrelated note, being a bus driver in mafia games is fun.

Original Roll String: 1d25

1 25-Sided Dice: (11) = 11

Original Roll String: 1d25

1 25-Sided Dice: (10) = 10

---
sweatpantsninja, i appreciate your defenses, but i try to play each game differently, regardless of my alignment.
---
armlx, thanks for your defense and in modding random mafia 2, that was fun!
---
toaster strudel, likewise, thanks for your defense about my null tells, but you typically defending people who are being attacked - that's your null tell
---
battle mage, having fun with your double-vote? maybe you can convince undecided to proxy votes to you, so you can hammer killa seven right before the deadline
---
thenextepisode, your internet connectivity issue is a blessing in disguise in this game. i would argue that there is a legitimate reason for you to vote on day 1 in this game. hopefully, you won't have to be replaced tomorrow, and can contribute more on day 2.

[Lloyd]

hmm, i was hoping to roll a 12 on the die. oh well.

[Lloyd]

battle mage, how come so many claim requests today?

anyone else you want to ask to claim, but haven't asked yet?

just remembered that you also asked matt to claim earlier.

Still waiting on Matt's claim.

[Lloyd]

farside, your current approach of only vigging non-power-role-claimers will have 0% chance of vigging scum. Scums, knowing that, will claim power roles.

I'm now against battle mage because his behavior has gotten 5 claims out on day 1.

His motivation is suspicious for asking for multiple day 1 claims (including the "not vig" ones) and pointing out breadcrumbs.

So far, we've had 3 deaths, 5 claims, that's 8 out of 30 people. At this rate, all 30 roles will be revealed / claimed by day 4.

If everyone end up being revealed / claiming by day 4, it will be in scums' interest, because mods typically design games so early mass claims benefit scums more than it would benefit town.

In summary, everyone...stop claiming and breadcrumbing (unless you are at lynch minus 1)...thanks!

[Lloyd]

Is there any reason we're prolonging that last killa vote? Kinda repeating what I've already said, but seeing as nobody answered me I feel obliged.

:goodposting:

:notgoodposting:

We discuss more when its not night. Discussion leads to catching scum. Just saying....

armlx, I think it's a good posting for multiple reasons, one which I already alluded in my earlier discussion with Khelvaster.

This day 1 has dragged on beyond it's peak point productivity. Anyhow, farside should make up her own mind, instead of being swayed.

jackalbane, is killa seven really at lynch - 1? The latest vote count indicates that he only has 11 otut of 14.