Mini #537 Happy Tree Friends Mafia - Game Over

[competentpsycho]

Ok I have to read a couple of chapters for a final I have this morning, so just a few quick things:

1) I can see why ryan asked to be replaced - being attacked for previous games for a whole page seems retarded and un-needed.

2) I don't buy the morphine crap. Seriously, if I was on morphine in a hospital the last thing I would be doing is posting in a game here. As ryan has said, the unvoting because someone called you out on it seems really fishy. You explained your action as to get discussion going - seemed perfectly innocent to me. Nothing in your post pointed to being drugged up and out of it. Then you unvoted because of one vote on you after you explained using a perfectly good reason. For this I will

vote: roffman

3) Holy - your refusal to vote at first sticks out to me... the only other time I have seen this (posting in random vote stage in beginning but not voting) the person turned out to be scum. IGMEOY

4) Phate - that whole thing about the past games has NOTHING to do with this one and was completely pointless, unless you were just trying to get him to ask to be replaced so you didn't have to play with an "idiot and a tool". Seeing as how the only mafia-related thing in that big ass discussion was you trying to point at ryan here:

Vote: ryan

Roffman doesn't seem scummy to me. He seems like a newb. By comparison, your attempts to throw suspicion on him seem scummy.

Also, if you posted your role PM in a previous game, you must be either an idiot or a tool.

This reasoning is completely retarded. Come on, throwing suspicion on someone's suspicious behavior seems scummy? That's what we do in mafia. Have you even played before? Or are you using craplogic to try to seem to be contributing since you really can't "scum hunt" because you are scum?

BIG FOS: Phate

5) JDodge - I don't know why you would bring up the past game but that in itself doesn't seem scummy. The fact that you kept egging him on for something that was not related to this game seems like you are distracting from the game. I will be watching you closely as well.


Also, I HATE lurkers. You guys better start posting... that includes punkfairy or whatever your name is.

[competentpsycho]

Jeez man, how am I supposed to have fun?

What the hell are you talking about here?

[competentpsycho]

LOL he's actually in the game - just isn't contributing and makes posts like this that make no sense at all.

[competentpsycho]

Looking at this from a 3rd person point of view, JDodge makes a good point. If this was an elaborate plan, why would Ryan request a replacement. I guess that really doesn't show JDodge/Phate as innocent, but it does knock out that theory. Other than being assholes I don't see any particularly scummy behavior from JDodge, and only the vote on ryan for voicing his suspicions sticks out for Phate, which I can't see any semi-intelligent scum sticking their neck out for craplogic like that.

On another note, lurkers that stick out to me:

SensFan - random vote only

pacone - random vote and two contentless posts one of which was unintelligible

FairyThatIsPunk - one contentless post - no random vote, no mafia related anything

olliep14 - ZERO posts .... WTF!

Holy - a good number of posts, crap for content, one random vote, and LOTS of excuses for not posting... most being that she was/is too tired, which is strange unless she is a vampire since they are in the morning when she was (apparently) too tired. Also possibly a BS excuse about the CMOS battery and RAM - how likely is it that she had problems with the battery and RAM at the same time. Very suspicious lurking in plain sight, and making excuses.

Unvote: roffman, vote: Holy

MOD can we please get a prod on Sens, Fairy, and olliep

[competentpsycho]

CMOS technology yes, CMOS battery no - thats for the BIOS

I'll admit its not a strong case but its the best I have at the moment and I want to hear more from her (and the others).

[competentpsycho]

Does she have a post restriction or something? This is getting annoying.

[competentpsycho]

Got it now, sorry not too knowledgeable on this flavor, yet. This may get annoying real quick.

[competentpsycho]

yes, but they have been repossessed by the devil in exchange for the broadcast of the show. In other news... where are our lurkers? Olliep still has no posts?!?!

[competentpsycho]

Fair enough - I just wanted you in the conversation more really. The excuses thing was 3 - twice too tired and once the computer trouble. Midnight? are you in Japan or what?

I'll

unvote

now while we wait for the lurkers to surface or be replaced.

[competentpsycho]

Has everyone responded to their prods or are we getting replacements?

[competentpsycho]

Wow, you guys have beat around the bush so much it is obvious. You might as well just come out with it as any semi-intelligent scum has probably already figured it out, and the fact that the identities don't seem, from my reading the wiki on the characters of this show, to scream out any certain mafia roles. I'm not sure if everyone else feels this way so I won't say what Fairy's rolename is, but this post of hers should be helpful:

*FairyThatIsPunk is pretending to be in a glass box*

Holy, if you still don't get it you may need to go visit a circus or large carnival. Or look at all of the characters for this flavor.

[competentpsycho]

someone said earlier to not say - not sure how it would help scum but I am game for the moment just in case.

[competentpsycho]

MOD:

can we get olliep replaced - he hasn't posted AT ALL in the 2 weeks this game has been open.

[competentpsycho]

vote: FairyThatIsPunk

for some more pressure

[competentpsycho]

Actually the clarification was for others hoping they would jump on too to get some REAL pressure on her. I don't care if she knows or not, if she gets enough votes she needs to explain herself or else someone could hammer. I just want her close to lynch to get an explanation. Whether she comes in now and does it before it gets to that point or not, I don't care. If she comes back and explains I would be happy to unvote and go search for scum elsewhere, but this is retarded. If she really can't vote, then we would only need 6 to lynch since that would be a majority of the VOTES. Also, I highly doubt she can't contribute anything useful, and if she is unsure of this she should clarify it with the mod. There is no reason a MOD would put in a post restriction that prevents someone from playing the game. I want to know WHY she is pulling this shit and not contributing. Don't you? In addition to getting her to talk this gets others involved in the game also, so I can see who is attempting to fly under the radar. Now those people will join in too so I won't see it here, but I'll do a reread soon anyway which should reveal them to me (this thread is short because of all the lurking).

Overall this game is at a crawl. I hope it picks up after the holiday.

[competentpsycho]

For starters what exactly her post restriction is if any and why she has been acting like she can't play the game because of it.

[competentpsycho]

Hmm... well I would like to hear an explanation from Fairy.

On other news, JDodge and Phate appear to be acting as one this game so far. If I had to guess characters from it they would be Lifty and Shifty. Problem is that is way to obvious for scum to act, so either Lifty/Shifty are not scum (doubt it) or JDodge and Phate just love being an asshole team without giving reasons for shit, which is anti-town. How could getting Fairy to contribute be anti-town at all? If you can give a valid reason I will back off but I don't see any where I stand now.

[competentpsycho]

How could putting someone this close to a lynch when it's obvious that they have a post restriction be pro-town?

just about anything that promotes discussion is protown.

There you go. I am not trying to lynch her, but she is hiding something which is anti-town. I just want some explanation as to why.

Kuribo, I hate to say this but I agree with Phate - that logic is horrible. The post restriction is easily explained by the role, but the role doesn't really fit any power role so... that doesn't really make sense here. If we never lynched anyone that could have a power role nobody would get lynched. If it weren't for the fact that you have been contributing so far you would have my vote. IGMEOY.

[competentpsycho]

sorry I guess that phrasing was a little confusing. I meant she is hiding something about her post restriction, the hiding of which is anti-town. I didn't mean that whatever she was hiding was anti-town.

[competentpsycho]

Also, it seems likely that Fairy is pro-town based on the post restriction.

If this were true then every scum would try to act like they had a post restriction. Scum could have a restriction too. I am not saying that Fairy is scum but I don't believe that she can't contribute at all to the game so I want an explanation as to why. This is about coasting along without really saying anything just like Holy but using a post restriction (unconfirmed) as a cover.

... Holy ... She's been coasting along without really saying anything.

I agree here, but Fairy is doing the same under the cover of a post restriction. I have said before there is no way a mod would put in a post restriction that stops a person from being able to play the game. My vote stays on Fairy for now.

You are all having the post restriction wool pulled over your eyes covering up what Fairy is doing. Look and see. You are all so blind.

Fairy - post something, anything useful.

[competentpsycho]

... Wow, that is great. I totally understand why you are doing this now. Seriously... WHAT THE FUCK!!

[competentpsycho]

Maybe, but I don't see the circular logic. Someone point it out. I want to believe that she is contributing.

[competentpsycho]

Maybe, but I don't see the circular logic. Someone point it out. I want to believe that she is contributing.

Interesting. You bitch when she doesn't contribute, and you bitch when she does contribute.

Very interesting.

I don't think I was bitching about her contributing. If she is saying there is circular logic then that is contributing and I will back off. I just don't see it (the circular logic that is), and the circular logic was just an interpretation by roffman. JDodge since you apparently do see the circular logic show me where it is. Once I see she is contributing rather than making completely useless posts to lurk in public then I will back off.

Holy, I don't see the "bitching when she does contribute" by me, but you agree with JDodge - point out how I am bitching once she contributed (nobody help her here - I think this is just an "I agree post" meant to make it look like she has an opinion of others when she doesn't).

Overall people are missing explanations for their interpretations. Maybe I am just dense but I don't see what a lot of you are pointing out. Help me out here, if you can.

[competentpsycho]

she did at best (

at least I think so

)

This is basically what I am scared of. I guess there would be an easy way to ask her. Fairy, if this is the best you can do due to your post restriction: give a thumbs up,
and if you could somehow get away with being more helpful, just haven't found a reason to yet: give a thumbs down.

After that same thing for if you can vote or not.

[competentpsycho]

The circular logic is obvious:

Competentpsycho- Fairy, you need to contribute!
(Fairy contributes)
Competentpsycho- YOU CALL THAT CONTRIBUTION? CONTRIBUTE!

Telling her to add something to the conversation, and then complaining when that it wasn't enough and she should do more? Yeah, that's a circle, because when she DOES do more, you could say it's not enough.

Ok, CRAPLOGIC.

Listen, you got the order weird.

me - you need to contribute
her - the "contribution" you speak of which is translated as circular logic
me - WTF (translated by you guys into "Contribute more" - I actually meant "WTF" as in I don't understand)

so apparently:

1) Fairy can see the future
2) You know this

or:

Your logic = TOTAL CRAP

How could she be calling what I had done up to that point circular logic? That is what I am asking. You are including things as evidence to the circular logic that happened after the accusation, if that is what she was doing. That doesn't work in an argument.

The person I would expect an actual answer to this question from is roffman who was the one who speculated that it means circular logic.

unvote

but I still expect some info as to whether or not you can vote/ contribute better, Fairy.

vote: kuribo

for crap logic

[competentpsycho]

Jeez, dude, calm down.

Defensive much?

When you use crap logic against me, yes. I am not taking others' opinions as fact without thinking critically about it. Unlike some people, which is why my vote is where it is. When I am town and people use craplogic on me to explain some opinion they are copying, that usually means scum, since scum have to try to convince people that a townie is scum. Therefore, they have to use crappy evidence, most of the time from other people since they don't want to risk making shit up.


So Phate, this is how the Fairy thing becomes pro-town: it creates discussion unlike the standstill this game was at previously, getting scum to slip up.

[competentpsycho]

What craplogic did I give? I never said I thought Fairy was scum, I just wanted to see what all she could do to help the town, part of which I am still waiting for. I put a vote on so she would actually respond since she seems to be lurking somewhat. I do think kuribo could be scum.

[competentpsycho]

Is psycho generating more logic which leads in circles, or am i just confused?

Where? Quote it or point it out in some way. Seriously this is pathetic. PROVE IT. I don't care that you're making a case against me, but please make it right. Claims with lack of explanation get us nowhere.

[competentpsycho]

Okay,

1- We don't know that you're town, so discard the whole "When I am town..." part.

2- "crap logic" isn't scummy, sometimes people are just wrong.

1 - I know I am town. The rest of you (except scum) don't and I realize that, but that is part of what convinces me. Obviously this holds no weight for anyone else until I am dead and revealed as town. I mentioned it here so it can be looked back on later for proof; if/when I am dead I will not be able to post and tell you guys.

2 - Crap logic is NOT the same as being wrong. Being wrong is not scummy, no, but using logic that you are trying to circumvent the truth with is. Again a logical fallacy. You are ASSUMING crap logic = being wrong, and basing your statement 2 on that, but the assumption is wrong. Crap logic and being wrong aren't the same.

[competentpsycho]

Hmmm. As much as I hate lurkers like Sensfan, JDodge you seem to be protecting FTIP for some odd reason, like you already know she is the same alignment as you. Your scumgroup consists of the 3 people that were voting for her. She still hasn't responded whether or not she can vote, or proved it by voting. She is not contributing much, if at all, and you are protecting her but pushing a Sens lynch for not contributing much and lurking, the same thing FTIP is doing. Why?

[competentpsycho]

Post reasons for your suspicions then. I don't like how you just say who you think should be lynched and expect that we follow blindly. You not providing reasons just prevents you from making mistakes and fucking up as scum revealing yourself. How does this behavior in any way benefit town?

[competentpsycho]

My thoughts exactly, JDodge. Also, way to dodge my post. Anyways, I would normally say replace, but in this game 2 weeks will only be like 1.5 pages of posts so it won't be that bad. Basically, its up to everyone else, I don't care either way.

Oh, and considering kuribo has only been scummy the one time with the crap logic I will assume (for now) he just didn't think his argument through. Thought I did this a while ago, but:

unvote

Sensfan, get your ass out of the shadows man.

vote: Sensfan

[competentpsycho]

*FairyThatIsPunk gets blown away in a sudden gush of wind*

I've been trying to see this in context to Holy's question and I can't think of any way in which this can be an answer. Anyone have insight as to what the hell this is trying to say?

Also, one more day till this game (hopefully) speeds up... can't wait.

[competentpsycho]

I would think for a bump she would write something like:

/me bumps into an invisible wall.

or something similar. Anyways, fishing for what? Role specifics I really don't care about and as to whether or not she can vote, I am pretty sure she can. As I stated before if she couldn't then majority of votes would be 6 not 7. I'm just trying to find a method to her madness so I can interpret this crap.

JDodge isn't answering any questions asked of him or giving reasons for his suspicions. Definite scummy behavior. I know you are all going to say he always plays like this so he blends in when he is scum... what if he is scum... you are going to let him get away with it? Playing like this as town to save your ass in games where you are scum is anti-town. He has his own agenda that is hurting, not helping the town.

vote: JDodge

[competentpsycho]

"What if he is scum"?

ZOMG WHAT IF YOU'RE SCUM

GASP WE SHOULD LYNCH YOU

WHAT IF EVERYONE'S SCUM?

THUS EVERYONE MUST BE SCUM

BECAUSE

WHAT IF THEY ARE

Ok, the reason I am voting you isn't because "what if he is scum", it is because of your refusal to answer questions or be helpful at all. The "what if he is scum" bit was about the defense people have given of you that you always play like this. What I am saying is just because you always play like this whether you are town or scum doesn't mean we should just assume right off the bat you are town and forget that you are playing with an anti-town style. Your refusal to be helpful at all makes me very suspicious.

Ok, I think Fairy only has a limited list of phrases she can use. I've seen the gustofwind one and the givesthefinger one.

Fairy, if this is correct, be blown away in a gust of wind. If it's incorrect, do something else.

OMG, he must be fishing, too.

[competentpsycho]

I was prodded in a way that made my PM box uncomfortable.

You'll be hearing from an attorney (who will show in open court, just where on the doll I was prodded.)

Can we make it a class action suit?

[competentpsycho]

Even if you thought that, why bring it up? What pro-town purpose would it serve?

He is putting forth his suspicions on you for your actions. What anti-town purpose would it serve?

[competentpsycho]

2) I thought you were talking about this.

Personal suspicions which he has never, at any point, backed up with reasons. He just states who everyone should lynch, without giving any reasons as to why.

1) Because I thought that it seemed like it was a pro-town comment, to which your comment seemed weird. I wanted some clarification. Now I have it, we were thinking of two different comments. I agree with you on the comment you were talking about. He might be fishing for power roles.

[competentpsycho]

I think he is wanting reasons. He is using an excuse of sarcasm for his "special knowledge" comment.

[competentpsycho]

I think he is wanting reasons. He is using an excuse of sarcasm for his "special knowledge" comment.

[competentpsycho]

I apologize for the double post. My internet is intermittent right now.

[competentpsycho]

unvote

pending a reread

[competentpsycho]

^But when I read that, I didn't think it that way. Isn't it his personal suspicions, we all have our owns suspects I assume..

To be honest, I don't have many suspects, as we have advanced very little into the game...*eyes the mod*

Personal suspicions which he has never, at any point, backed up with reasons. He just states who everyone should lynch, without giving any reasons as to why.

When the fuck did I ever say anything like that?

lol! Seriously roffman, that was a bit over the top, don't you think? >.<

Ok, I have reread the thread and my top suspect is roffman. In addition to this the above post makes me think he and pacone are probably connected. Pacone says he has no suspects despite all the things that have happened so far. He may just not want to vote for his partner. Either way roffman seems scummier to me, mostly from being overly defensive from little things and not really presenting an opinion of his own, but rather just agreeing with people/restating ideas that have already been posted.

vote: roffman

Kuribo also seems somewhat scummy to me, but not as much as roffman.

Of course, it doesn't help that two people are getting replaced/modkilled, so once that happens the vote may change.

[competentpsycho]

I loved it when a whole day/night shift happened in a week

That is why I started playing at somethingawful. I am in a game that started with 25 people and will probably be over before this day is up, and it started after this game.

The post you said wasn't solid enough to speculate a connection though. I don't mind with a roffman lynch if we must to, his 'sarcasm' wasn't really helping town in my eyes, I just want all the lurkers to speak their minds too before the deadline, if not still there'll be not enough clues for tomorrow.

Hence why I didn't even FOS him. Just mentioning it here so I don't forget later in case more things come into play supporting this theory.

[competentpsycho]

Just a quick question, what is the required number of votes to lynch at a deadline?

[competentpsycho]

Hmmm... so out of 11 voting players we need 7 votes to lynch... great. Thanks for the contribution FTIP.

[competentpsycho]

I figured out Phate's role. He is the Grammar Nazi.

[competentpsycho]

Slept in the wrong house? WTF?

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Hider

Must have tried hiding in a mafia member's house. At least the scum didn't get a night kill on top of it.

[competentpsycho]

Also, where is Sensfan? Did he get replaced or what?

[competentpsycho]

Zone, why does Phate need pressure? I feel he's been in the discussion a good amount, definitely more than some others.

[competentpsycho]

*FairyThatIsPunk walks over to the lynch machine and pushes the button of Roffman and gives an evil smile*

Was that supposed to count as a vote? Because K-scope didn't count it as such...

That quote was immediately followed by:

*FairyThatIsPunk scratches her head and gives a thumbs up and then a thumbs down to Rigel and Competentpsycho*

which was in response to my two questions of whether she could contribute more and whether she could vote, respectively. Obviously by the second being a thumbs down and the fact that the vote wasn't counted she apparently can't. Either that or she wants us to think she can't so she can screw us in lylo.

[competentpsycho]

I think I have to agree on the Sensfan issue. Panzer's statement was fairly early but I assume he was planning it the whole time because that is a pretty obvious breadcrumb. Also,

I'm here, sorry.

A combination of final exams and forgetfulness led to me not posting here. Expect a largish post in the next day or two, after I reread.

that was Tuesday, it is now Saturday. I also don't like lurkers. I don't like this either:

Holy, im trying to lynch pacone. Lurkers need to be dealt with, harshly. Sens phate and rigel are on my suspect list so pressur eont hem would be nice.

If he wants to go after lurkers, why not go for the person who hasn't posted much all game despite participating in other games? I will give him the benefit of a doubt for now since Sens is looking like a better lynch.

unvote, vote: SensFan

[competentpsycho]

I didn't mean pressure in the sense of needing ot post more, i meant in that i find him suspicious.

Also seems he is changing reasons on us... is he or is he not saying pacone is lurking? IGMEOY zone

Also, good find JDodge on the breadcrumb.

MOD: can we get a votecount?

[competentpsycho]

He is on my radar. Just Sens is a bigger blip on the radar with the breadcrumb.

[competentpsycho]

The mafia didn't choose to kill him though. He "slept in the wrong house" according to the mod. This isn't the mafia's choosing. In fact if the mafia had targeted him, nothing would have happened since he hid somewhere.

Actually, now that I think about it, the mafia didn't have a night kill, so they may have targeted him. The fact that he died in the night had nothing to do with that though. I will

unvote

to reread the last couple days again to see if it is possible that Panzer was just voicing suspicion on Sens. Phate may have brought up a good point by being logically wrong with his scenario. He could be scum trying to avoid a lynch of a buddy, but the lack of a night kill last night worries me as what I have read of hiders has nothing to do with the mafia losing a night kill.

[competentpsycho]

Ok, I have re-read and that definitely looks like a breadcrumb, so assuming Panzer hid in SensFan's house, Sens is scum. The fact that there wasn't a nightkill either means scum targeted Panzer last night or someone roleblocked the scum. Either way I think it is an advantage and am going to

vote: Sensfan

again.

The fact that Phate is trying to lead away from this disturbs me, along with his obvious trying to make himself appear to be connected with JDodge early on and this:

For starters what exactly her post restriction is if any and why she has been acting like she can't play the game because of it.

That doesn't need to be public info.

The scum are SensFan, competentpsycho and roffman. That is all.

I'm with roffman and Phate on this one. Yes, those three people could be scum. But blunt accusations don't mean anything to the remainder of us if you can't support them with reasons. I'm not going to take any assertions from anyone at face value without any reasons to back up those assertions. If Phate doesn't "get your reasons", then you need to make him and the rest of us "get those reasons" so that we actually listen to you rather than simply ignoring you when you might be right.

So, what are your reasons for picking those three definitively as scum?

Shut up, Rigel.

Why does he tell Rigel to shut up when Rigel is supporting him? Hell, why is he telling anyone to shut up in a mafia game? The only thing I can come up with is he DOESN'T want to seem connected to Rigel. This seems blatant though so I am thinking it may be another reason. I don't like it though. Does anyone else know of a reason to do this if you were town?

[competentpsycho]

So you think Panzer just said that about Sensfan and then slept in a different house?

[competentpsycho]

The mafia didn't choose to kill him though. He "slept in the wrong house" according to the mod. This isn't the mafia's choosing. In fact if the mafia had targeted him, nothing would have happened since he hid somewhere.

WTF Phate, do you just ignore what I say? But when JDodge says it you jump all over it? Maybe I should say anything I want you to read in CAPS, would that work?

[competentpsycho]

Vote Phate

your defense of Sens yesterday was so pathetic. you failed at concealing your scum nature. You should have given up and bussed, it may have kept you from dying today.

My suspicion of Phate has been obvious but this case makes very little sense. Sens was a mafia spy - the mafia didn't know who he was and would have to find him, but with only N1 available for them to do that, it is unlikely that they did. Besides that, I don't see Phate being that stupid. On the other hand if the mafia didn't know he was a mafia spy, they may have tried to support him in an obvious lynch situation like that since they thought he was town, pointing at it later as proof of being pro-town. That is kind of WIFOM, but if I were scum and that was the situation that is the way I would have played it. I'm gonna hold my vote for now because the only argument that would make sense for Phate's actions to be scum is a little WIFOM.

[competentpsycho]

Vote Phate

your defense of Sens yesterday was so pathetic. you failed at concealing your scum nature. You should have given up and bussed, it may have kept you from dying today.

My suspicion of Phate has been obvious but this case makes very little sense. Sens was a mafia spy - the mafia didn't know who he was and would have to find him, but with only N1 available for them to do that, it is unlikely that they did. Besides that, I don't see Phate being that stupid. On the other hand if the mafia didn't know he was a mafia spy, they may have tried to support him in an obvious lynch situation like that since they thought he was town, pointing at it later as proof of being pro-town. That is kind of WIFOM, but if I were scum and that was the situation that is the way I would have played it. I'm gonna hold my vote for now because the only argument that would make sense for Phate's actions to be scum is a little WIFOM.

Methinks you know too much.

Unvote, vote: competentpsycho

You mean MBF knows too much: http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf

Actually, looking back at this I think I mixed this up a little. When I first read it it seemed like the mafia would have to "find" the spy, but now that I reread it it seems like they just tell the mod when they want to recruit him. I think the recruit part made me mix it up with mason a little. The argument still holds since the spy would become a normal mafia member if recruited, but still flipped Mafia spy. Also, scum would want to recruit later so that there is a better chance of the spy having been investigated before being recruited, and thus the cop thinking he was town. Sorry about the mixup but the argument is still valid, scum shouldn't have known that Sens was the mafia spy and instead thought he was town. I am leaning toward the thought that Phate was just not reading thoroughly, but that doesn't clear him by any means.

[competentpsycho]

you're still scum, regardless.

Proof? Or are you just emulating JDodge?

[competentpsycho]

Also, I would like to hear from Holy Rigel and Pacone. Where did you guys go?

[competentpsycho]

Well I was just bringing attention to the fact that none of them have posted day 3 at all. I'm not saying any of them participated all that much so far, but pacone is definitely suspicious because he said he would participate after day 1 since there would be more that happened - well shit has happened - time to post something.

[competentpsycho]

ive explained,

everyone of your actions is scummy

. your behavior day one.

you behavior day 2 in regards to the Sens lynching

, and now your OMGUS behavior today. You're very scummy. and need to die. after that

Green = defeating your own argument.

Also, I am afraid Phate is right, you haven't explained WHY his actions are scummy. By your logic I could say "ZA is a jester because his actions are jester-like" but that neither proves that you are a jester or that your actions are jester-like, just because I say so. Stop acting like JDodge and give examples and explain why.

On a side note, speaking of jesters got me thinking - pacone. Anyone else get that vibe, or am I just being paranoid?

[competentpsycho]

No, you're either paranoid or scum. Why would you think there's a jester?

I am trying to rationalize his weird playstyle. He said day 1 he would contribute more when more stuff happened so there was information to base decisions off of. He hasn't. Possibly scum but most scum would try to blend in and pacone has done nothing like that.

Actually, looking back at this I think I mixed this up a little. When I first read it it seemed like the mafia would have to "find" the spy, but now that I reread it it seems like they just tell the mod when they want to recruit him. I think the recruit part made me mix it up with mason a little. The argument still holds since the spy would become a normal mafia member if recruited, but still flipped Mafia spy. Also, scum would want to recruit later so that there is a better chance of the spy having been investigated before being recruited, and thus the cop thinking he was town. Sorry about the mixup but the argument is still valid, scum shouldn't have known that Sens was the mafia spy and instead thought he was town. I am leaning toward the thought that Phate was just not reading thoroughly,

but that doesn't clear him by any means

.

I'm not sure that I like the way that the discussion has turned on Phate all of a sudden. Yes, Phate's defense of Sensfan was scummy on Day 2, but the truth is that if Phate is scum, he wouldn't have known that Sensfan was mafia-aligned. Therefore, saying that his defense of Sensfan makes him scummy makes no sense.

It seems I have an echo.

How, this by no means clears Phate

. He still could be scum, and I plan on looking of evidence to support that in Day 1. But jumping on him for his actions on Day 2 and 3 doesn't help when those actions, looked at objectively, wouldn't help the mafia, and therefore would be horrible plays if Phate was scum.

And why has no one brought up the fact that FTIP was a shrink? This gives us a guaranteed serial killer, unless Fairy cured them on Night 1. And someone killed her during the day--that's something we should be looking at as well. I just don't see where this Phate thing is going, and unless some non-Sensfan-supporting evidence can be found, I think we should shelve the matter until we can determine exactly what occurred overnight.

Paraphrasing (not even really in the red part - more plagiarizing) what I said before doesn't mean you are contributing. The Fairy thing is a good call, I thought I mentioned that before but I guess not. I get a bad feeling about you, though.

[competentpsycho]

I said that was a good call on the fairy thing. I didn't find the pacone thing a new point - you just sorta said you would vote for him and repeated why we've been on his ass the whole game. As for the matter of repeating me, I didn't say it was that big of a deal, but now that you are pushing it, you could have just said "I agree with XXX, but in addition...", which puts forth your opinion on the matter with less shit to (re-) read. Adding it in just makes your post bigger and makes it seem like you are posting a lot. It is possible you just didn't read the whole thread before posting and you are just a moron, but i get a bad vibe from you. At the moment it is not enough for me to vote you for it, though.

[competentpsycho]

Yet there was no mafia kill on night 1, so maybe mafia targeted (recruited) the spy by sheer luck. I'm assuming that's the way mafia recruits spies, by targetting them, no?

I don't think it works that way. I think they would NK them that way. What I got from the flash thing was they just tell the mod whenever they want to recruit him.

Also, no night kill tonight either, wtf is up with mafia?

roleblocker?

And why did fairy die?

Vig or SK

And WTF is WIFOM?

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom

*looks disdainfully at the checked "Notify me when a reply is posted" option*

I think that only notifies you the first time someone replies after you reply, not subsequent ones, so if you check the forum for a reply but don't post, the replies after that aren't notified.

[competentpsycho]

EBWOP - lack of NK could be from a doc in addition to a roleblocker. Or the mafia might be doing something sneaky (ie forgoing a NK to gain something)

Phate's stubbornness yesterday could come from either alignment, especially after reading the definition of Mafia Spy that psycho pointed.

I said that his stubborness could most likely only mean scum if he was doing it specifically to look good when sens came up town on the lynch, but that is WIFOM as I said before. My post with the definition was to eradicate this line of thought that he was dragging his feet on lynching a scumbuddy, not to say he was scum because he did it.

READ THE THREAD instead of skimming through.

[competentpsycho]

MOD - vote count please

[competentpsycho]

vote: Phate

reasoning?

[competentpsycho]

EBWOP - lack of NK could be from a doc in addition to a roleblocker. Or the mafia might be doing something sneaky (ie forgoing a NK to gain something) .

So which one of these is you?

Neither - I was clearing up what I said before which was that a roleblocker could have caused it. I thought about it and it could be a doc protection, or something weird with the mafia. I have heard about mafia getting something for forgoing NKs before. Or they could just be trying to confuse us.

edwop

Same goes for CP

not fishing - I was answering pacone's questions. That was just clearing up what I said here.

stop fishing kuribo, its looks bad.

I'm not fishing, I want to know which of these scenarios he feels proud enough about to have mentioned.

EBWOP: Or, more likely, which one he is more disappointed to have seen go through.

psycho has been scummy for quite awhile, and that he brought up mafia "forgoing an NK to gain something," gives me pause. I asked "Which one of these is you," but I think the clear implication was "Are you scum forgoing an NK to gain something?"

like I said I have heard of it happening before. That was just an example of the scum doing something weird. So by this line of thought since I mentioned it I must be scum forgoing an NK to gain something in addition to being a roleblocking doc vig SK, since I mentioned all of those, huh?

Phate's stubbornness yesterday could come from either alignment, especially after reading the definition of Mafia Spy that psycho pointed.

I said that his stubborness could most likely only mean scum if he was doing it specifically to look good when sens came up town on the lynch, but that is WIFOM as I said before. My post with the definition was to eradicate this line of thought that he was dragging his feet on lynching a scumbuddy, not to say he was scum because he did it.

READ THE THREAD instead of skimming through.

I meant from the

link

you gave us, not from your analysis.

Sorry I must have misread your comment. I now read it as he could be mafia or town, especially after what I pointed out. Before I thought you were saying it could come either from his alignment as scum, from what I pointed out... and then forgot to finish your sentence. Sorry I understand now.

[competentpsycho]

competentpsycho, why aren't you voting someone?

I wasn't convinced that you were scum and wasn't very sure on others. I suspected Rigel and kuribo, but had no good case to vote them. I think Holy's case on Phate is complete bullshit. She has been pushing this shitty case that we have ripped apart.

vote: Holy

JD - care to explain why you are voting for Phate or are you going to stick with your playstyle

actually,

unvote

until I get an answer to something strange I just realized: Phate why did you claim when only 2 votes were on you almost a week before the deadline? It seems pointless.

[competentpsycho]

Wonder how many of you are scum and how many are just stupid?

It's better to lynch you now when we can afford your claim being right than to lynch you later and risk it.

guess I should have previewed before I posted. HOW DO YOU KNOW WE COULD AFFORD IT? If you are wrong, we lynch a townie and the mafia gets 2 kills, downing the count to 5 people.

[competentpsycho]

hmm... I guess I sorta see it. Phate, answer my question.

Phate why did you claim when only 2 votes were on you almost a week before the deadline? It seems pointless.

[competentpsycho]

Phate -

because I think he exposed himself a bit too much when Sensfan was going to be lynched

. While I am now wary about his role,

the fact that he claimed this soon is still scummy

.

Jdodge -

because he always has the right words all the time. Makes me think he's got extra info, and that's always suspicious to me.

Green = complete CRAPLOGIC that I have already countered multiple times.
blue = possible but not a new idea by any means, in fact it was mentioned by me in the post right before yours
red = bullshit. He barely talks at all. What do you mean here?

vote: pacone

Before I thought maybe you were busy, now you have posted but haven't contributed one bit this game.

[competentpsycho]

Actually now that I think about it, you are copying on Phate and making shit up on Jdodge. You say Phate is scummy but don't vote for him, in fact unvote him right after saying "Isn't it a bad thing to skip a chance to lynch scum?". I have more but I have to go. back later today probably.

[competentpsycho]

Ok back to finish - I was thinking the quoting the votes thing for the mod was weird but I see now the mod screwed up the last votecount for his vote, meaning Phate was at 3 votes (L-2) when he claimed, not 2 as I had previously thought. That makes Phate's claim a little less scummy, solidifying my belief that pacone is probably scum, since by this quoting votes thing pacone knows this (and the fact that it was his vote that was missed), yet still says Phate is scummy because of claiming early (copying off of my mistaken opinion for sure since he knows the facts that I missed and still says this). Also, JDodge's vote came after that votecount and so that wasn't a mistake on the part of the mod, pacone.

[competentpsycho]

damnit

I just realized that not lynching Phate is superior since even if the scum NKs him to get the extra NK, at least we'd get control over one death if we lynch someone else

Unvote, vote: Pacone

That's why I was confused with your point.

And I can only assume that Rigel was killed by our SK, but why target Rigel. The SK has to survive to endgame to win and should be targetting scum at this point because they are a threat to him as much as us. There are much better targets than Rigel.

[competentpsycho]

Also, I just realized FTIP was poisoned - is that a normal vig kill method because that and this Rigel kill don't seem to be the same person. Just a little confusing.

[competentpsycho]

She doesn't know that because if that were the case the game would be over since the majority of the town would be mafia. The mod would have posted endgame kills of all the town with the kill of Rigel, but he didn't. Therefore, as ZA said, it is not possible.

Also, Holy I suppose it could be a vig but with a stabbing I have to assume SK first. How often does a vig kill with a knife?

[competentpsycho]

Actually now that I think about it, you are copying on Phate and making shit up on Jdodge. You say Phate is scummy but don't vote for him, in fact unvote him right after saying "Isn't it a bad thing to skip a chance to lynch scum?". I have more but I have to go. back later today probably.

Well, Phate asked who I think were mafia and why, and that's what I posted, my thoughts. I'm not making anything up, it's just what I think at the moment.

Also, I did vote for Phate, and I unvoted Phate

for now

, why do you change my words?

I claimed because I didn't want a last minute claim to allow scum to lurk me to death, and I wanted to allow town a week to find a new lynch.

Vote: Pacone

I think you just want to gain some time and scare us with your fake role to divert attention from you.

I'll vote for you tomorrow unless you post something more convincing.

Isn't it a bad thing to skip a chance to lynch scum? Why are you voting Phate then?

In fact,

unvote: Phate

, at least for now.

Want to know who I think is scummy?

Phate - because I think he exposed himself a bit too much when Sensfan was going to be lynched. While I am now wary about his role, the fact that he claimed this soon is still scummy.

Jdodge - because he always has the right words all the time. Makes me think he's got extra info, and that's always suspicious to me.

not changing your words - I mean't in the same post you say you think he is scum and it is a bad thing to skip a chance to lynch scum, yet you don't vote him there, you actually unvoted.

Also, where is there a formal case against Phate. I haven't seen one. The only thing presented is dragging his feet a little on a lynch of a supposed scumbuddy that he couldn't have known of. I see no proof at all.

[competentpsycho]

EBWOP: Ooops, tomorrow is Thursday already, so in case I forget:

Vote: Phate

you do realize that if phate is telling the truth and we lynch him it's game over for the town right?

How? And how are you so sure?

[competentpsycho]

EBWOP sorry I realize how - forgot that Rigel's death brought us down to 7 players

[competentpsycho]

I've bolded the parts where I say my unvoting was

temporary

, why do you keep ignoring parts of my messages?

I am not ignoring it, temporary or not you still unvoted who you said was scum right after you said it is a bad thing to skip a chance to lynch scum. It just seems odd and the fact that you try to defend it with "it was temporary" seems weird too. That is not why I voted you so I don't know why you are being so defensive about that, the reason I am voting for you is you are voting Phate, claimed beloved princess, for exactly that reason, he claimed beloved princess. There is NO valid case for the fact that he is scum, you just want to lynch him based on his [claimed] role.

On that line of thinking, I want to lynch you because you claim to be town. Never mind that it could be true, it COULD be a lie and you COULD be scum. If we lynch him and he is telling the truth it is game over. If we wait, we may have a chance even if we are wrong. It is not like by letting him live today he lives forever. We could lynch him tomorrow if something convinces us he is scum.

I think that if phate is lying and we

don't

lynch him because we are afraid of what would happen, it will be pretty much game over anway.

I don't think K-scope would make a town role with so much potential harm for the town, so I assume Phate went too far when he made it up.

Kuribo pretty much covered the top part of that, as for the bottom, you are trying to meta a mod. This doesn't work, especially since it is just something you think, not based on previous games he has modded or anything. I think you are desperate scum.

[competentpsycho]

EBWOP

I just realized Rigel's death reset all the votes and I am not currently voting, so:

vote: pacone

[competentpsycho]

LOL, kuribo, just for you:

unvote

I'll take the hammer (if I'm not too busy playing COD4) when his claim sucks.

[competentpsycho]

I am inclined to trust ZA. I am pretty sure ZA is town.

vote: pacone

[competentpsycho]

I am inclined to trust ZA. I am pretty sure ZA is town. If pacone felt this way he should have come out with it when Phate claimed. I don't like how he waited. Sorry JDodge, but I am not going to do what you say, my vote is MY vote, not yours.

vote: pacone

[competentpsycho]

I meant to press preview, and I am pretty sure I did because it stayed at that page where I could change it. Don't know what happened. Sorry bout the double post though.

[competentpsycho]

No, I am not. That makes it a much more convenient excuse for you, though.

I change my mind on no lynch - new theory. Pacone and Phate are scum together and they were given a fake-claim of beloved princess. Phate fakeclaims. Pacone isn't paying attention. Pacone fake-claims same thing.

Who thinks this is likely?

I think it may be likely they are both scum and pacone is trying to bus phate. Problem with your theory of not paying attention and claiming is that he said he is voting phate because phate claimed beloved princess, and said he is actually the beloved princess. Doesn't mean its not scum bussing scum though. I say we lynch pacone today.

Also, Phate that was not a hammer, in fact he is at -1 if I am not mistaken. I had a double post in there because I probably hit the submit button too soon or something. He only has 3 votes and you have one.


Here is an unofficial vote count:
=======================

pacone (3)

- Phate, ZONEACE, competentpsycho

Phate (1)

- pacone

not voting (3)

- Holy, JDodge, kuribo

[competentpsycho]

Now im trying to decide is mass claim before night, or mass claim tomorrow is the better plan. Id like some discussion on this before we hammer pacone however. so i'm gonna

unvote

for the time being, but pacone IS THE LYNCH TODAY

Tomorrow. There may be power roles that are very important for the town that could be useful tonight and with a massclaim would end up killed by the mafia. If we already agree that we are going to lynch pacone today, the only people that mass claiming today helps are mafia, to decide which person to NK. To the town it makes no difference if we are lynching pacone either way (other than the power roles MAY have a slight idea of who to target, but the mafia WILL KNOW who to target).

[competentpsycho]

pacone, just to indulge me, what is your role title? By that I am talking how roffman was Impulse Lover, FTIP was Psychiatrist, etc. I doubt it will change anything but I am curious.

[competentpsycho]

Hmmm, well I like my vote where it is, but I won't be around for the deadline because I work tomorrow. I will probably check for any really important revelations tomorrow morning before I leave, but won't be around all day after that.

[competentpsycho]

what are you looking for? name, role title, role description, all?

[competentpsycho]

I am Handy, an inventor. At night I get to attempt to create one of a few items. Being that my hands are chopped off, I will not necessarily succeed at creating this item, and certain items are more likely to succeed than others. If I do succeed I can give the item to someone during the day. I don't have to give it out the next day, but I can't create anything new until I give the previous one away. The first night I tried for "Crystal Ball", which all I know about is that it apparently reveals a scum. I don't know how. Obviously, I did not succeed at this, and decided it was probably very unlikely that I would, so the next night I tried for "Chucky" which was described as a vig kill item. I succeeded and gave it to Rigel, thinking Rigel would get a vig kill. Unfortunately I didn't get the Chucky reference until afterwords, as apparently this item kills the person who I give the item to instead. I wish I knew that ahead of time. Last night I tried for the "Chucky" item again, as I now know how it works, but it failed. I assume this one might be fairly unlikely also and that I just got lucky before.

Holy, you're up.

[competentpsycho]

I don't have time to look over this plan and think about it right now, but I will be able to tonight (around 6 PM [midnight GMT]) and would hope that you wait until I get a chance to look it over to do it.

[competentpsycho]

Looking it over, it all seems like a good plan. Kuribo and Holy were my only suspects left. I tend to believe kuribo's claim more since if it is true it can be confirmed without getting rid of a townie uselessly. One thing I don't understand, Zone, is that you said Phate was confirmed town. How?

[competentpsycho]

Lol Phate was scum... I was wondering about that. Good game all. JDodge is probably rolling in his grave since you guys forgot about a serial killer being in the game.

[competentpsycho]

beloved princess wasn't scum, was anti-miller, meaning he flips scum when he dies but is really town. Glad I didn't target Phate at the end, I would have died too.

[competentpsycho]

I told you to post your reason's so your allegations would be credible, but did you listen...

[competentpsycho]

It only worked for me since
1) I had a safeclaim of Handy, who is a construction worker (inventor)
2) I claimed a previous kill of a townie on my own (scum would usually be afraid to do this). I got lucky no one caught on here.
3) I had been thinking about what I would claim for a few days, so I had a while to work out the details. I was very specific about it. Made it seem somewhat real.

[competentpsycho]

Oh, and K-scope, great game. Thanks for giving me a chance to play as SK for the first time.