Scummies Invitational (OVER!!!)

[Incognito]

Sorry, I was prodded. I'll update this by tomorrow. It's just been a crazy busy week.

[imaginality]

Post 99 is full of goodness.

Vote: curiouskarmadog

[Patrick]

Votecount

Hoopla (2) -- Incognito, Empking
Empking (1) -- q21
vollkan (3) -- Kmd4390, Tenchi, populartajo
curiouskarmadog (3) -- vollkan, mykonian, imaginality
Tenchi (3) -- SpyreX, Hoopla, Ojanen

Not voting -- Kinetic, Slicey, curiouskarmadog
15 alive, 8 to lynch.

[SpyreX]

Hot damn mykonian I like that a lot.

However, can you give me the short and sweet on Tenchi and your thoughts that way? Tenchi CKD twofer? Mmmm

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote CKD

I like this wagon.

[curiouskarmadog]

well if there is going to be a lynch Day 1, it might as well be mine, you are going to be embarassed at the end of it, mykonian, curious what was your scummie for?

and when you say "X has just as much of a chance to be scum" and you want to policy lynch, that is not scummy hunting....I dont care what you say. have we ever played before? i could throw out some meta bullshit, but it is just that, bullshit.

here are my thoughts, my gut says that mykonian is probably town. He is attacking me for "not scum hunting" while blatantly over looking those who has just posted once or twice with little to no content. all I said, is I dont see a case that I wanted to vote for. I wanted those who had put "cases" out there to explain to me while I should for their guy. OR see who (with cases on other people) was curious where I stood on thier cases...what I got, was a wagon on me. SO, this leads me to believe that people who previously had cases, werent really behind them.

Hopefully you can break down who jumped on my wagon and why (maybe learn something from it).

I asked some questions, but the two jumper ons, seemed to conveniently over look them.

[Empking]

FoS: CKD

Myk make somes good points and CKD is definitely doing some misrepresentation with regards to Myk but Hoopla is still by far the scummier of the two.

[curiouskarmadog]

who really is misrepresenting? and again...because people seem to be missing them.

furthermore,

@ all, I would like everyone to comment on that post....

was my post (92) scummy?

did I say I wasnt going to scum hunt?

Was mykonian's post scummy?

Do you agree on page 4 we should just policy lynch anyone?

[Kinetic]

Hai, I found the game. Yay.

Describe your process of finding the thread. Did you think it was still being set up? (yes it's a serious question)

My process was simple. My role PM didn't have a link, and after scanning the forums I couldn't find it. I decided that I'd wait for a prod and hope a link was in there. The prod instead told me what forum to look in, and actually I checked a different thread at first which seemed similar before finding this one. I didn't think it was still being set up (or at least I figured it would start soon), but as I was preparing to head out of town I didn't give it more than a cursory try.

Alright, I saw Hoopla's question and the theme guy within me immediately stated to myself "Its a Trap!", so instead to help me catch up and get into the game I'm going to post what I know/suspect of each player from a meta stance.

Hoopla: Can't remember much, doesn't stick out. I do remember some games that I'm pretty sure this player was in with me, but I don't remember them having an impact in them (unless you count the impact with the floor upon their demise).

Kmd4390: I think I know more of this player from reading them out of mafia games than in them. I seem to remember a personality that can get stubborn, but not the context for which I have this opinion.

SpyreX: Cool guy, remember modding him a bunch and playing with a couple times. Enjoy what he has to say and what he brings to the game. Will be sad if he is scum and I have to kill him.

imaginality: Who you be?

Ojanen: See above.

vollkan: I remember some things from some games. If I do remember correctly this kid can be dangerous to scum with some well placed and pointed questions. People who avoid these questions or try to evade him should be removed from the game swiftly.

Empking: More of a distraction in any game I've played. Scum leaves him around if he's town, and if he's scum he uses that meta to stay alive longer. Since we have multiple lynches I feel he should be removed from the game so he doesn't become a distraction as town or slip by as scum.

Vote:Empking

curiouskarmadog: I remember him, but not much on context. He doesn't stick out as an effective scum hunter though.

Kinetic: You're awesome Theme Crusher (although I have no official title right now). I'm most effective in complicated set ups and with strong roles, and least effective when playing scum over an extended period of time, especially in early games. My best games are long-term town plays where I can dissect a set-up. My best scum plays, on the other hand, are short and mostly near end game. I've won two scummies (both in the same year), one for Exceptional town play over the 08 year (in particular for accomplishments in Raj's Freaktown and Tar's Babylon 5 games), and one for Replacing into a scum position and turning the game around for scum in end game. However it has been a while since I've really gotten into a game (save MS4), so my play style has likely changed since then. I also like talking about myself.

Incognito: Never played with this person, only know his name since he was mentioned during New Jersey meet-ups that I planned on attending (but ultimately had to pull out of).

q21: Hmm curious name. I do have some recollection of this person but I have equal recollections or someone who is mildly effective and at the same time can be useless. Will give benefit of doubt for now.

Slicey: I remember the name, some of the context as well. I don't remember a particularly effective person, but at the very least I do remember him using a decent power for some reason. I'll have to think about it, but something about him gives me pause. In this case I'm trying to decide if I think he is useless or just neutral though.

mykonian: Can't remember context at all, but the name sticks out. I remember a decent scum hunter if memory serves and a strong player. Definitely not on my lynch N1 list.

Tenchi: Only experience I can remember of him I wasn't impressed. Will use this game to gauge him most likely.

populartajo: Pop is cool, Pop is a strong player, I enjoy saying Pop. Big Poppa Pump (your new nickname for this game) will be pumping out the analysis and the votes. He's on my list with SpyreX of people I would be sad if they were scum.

[Ojanen]

I decided that I'd wait for a prod

and hope a link was in there.

Ok, I thought I might give you some townpoints for something but the process didn't indicate that way. Also, I know you have purchased Starcraft 2 but damn that's lazy and non-proactive.

Your wall was useless. None of it had anything to do with anything alignment-related this game and most of it was vague.

mykonian: Can't remember context at all, but the name sticks out. I remember a decent scum hunter if memory serves and a strong player. Definitely not on my lynch N1 list.

D1 scumcatching should be only limited to weaker players then in your opinion? Do you find D1 to be semi-random bs?
(I assume N1 was meant to be D1).

---
From surface I'm not impressed with the ckd case but let me read the interaction better in a sec.

[Ojanen]

well if there is going to be a lynch Day 1, it might as well be mine, you are going to be embarassed at the end of it, mykonian, curious what was your scummie for?

This is a weird response and a bit scummy. Pointless venting attempt at intimidation/insult or something, and the earlyness of it throws me off.

Otherwise, this

ckd collects some micro-non-mafia points for mixing this up with an /in-vitational. I assume scum have nighttalk and mod wrote nighttalkers could talk pre-game. It's somewhat more likely that Scummies invitational would be mentioned passingly than not and scum would be aware of reputations.

is still more valid than myko's case in my mind.
ckd's "myko isn't scumhunting" thing obviously referred to the whole policy lynch line by myko, even though it was exaggeratingly repeated. ckd's been passive but meh.

[Kinetic]

I decided that I'd wait for a prod

and hope a link was in there.

Ok, I thought I might give you some townpoints for something but the process didn't indicate that way. Also, I know you have purchased Starcraft 2 but damn that's lazy and non-proactive.

It wasn't lazy, it was efficient. There is a difference. Why spend a ton of time uselessly searching and maybe finding it in time for RVS or just wait and get a shout when that was over anyway.

Your wall was useless. None of it had anything to do with anything alignment-related this game and most of it was vague.

No, not useless. I'm getting the meta out of the way now, and if I were to make meta arguments later without justification you can use these to impeach me.

mykonian: Can't remember context at all, but the name sticks out. I remember a decent scum hunter if memory serves and a strong player. Definitely not on my lynch N1 list.

D1 scumcatching should be only limited to weaker players then in your opinion? Do you find D1 to be semi-random bs?
(I assume N1 was meant to be D1).

Day 1 is notorious for hitting players who make minor mistakes and it blows them out of proportion. If a wave forms, its best not to try and break it, but ideally I'd want to eliminate players I feel would be a problem late game if left in the game. As scum that means I target strong town players at night, as town it means I want to remove useless and lurk players if possible. Rarely does that work out, but its my hope. This, of course, doesn't include games that start with a Night. Additionally I feel this rule set works itself well to eliminating riffraff as we can do that a few times and maybe get an actual lynch idea without losing too much to a night phase.

[q21]

The third player and second on my scumlist, q21 made the one vote that I disliked. Empking. If we want to lynch him, we'll get there, but this way was plain wrong.

You thought that was a genuine attempt to get Emp lynched? Really? Wow...


I am of the opinion that Myk has blown CKD's post 92 out of proportion. I dislike that wagon.

[Tenchi]

Just replied to some Tenchi posts will read some more tonight.

I am assuming all this declarations (you and

Spyrex

, maybe more?)

What????

With all of the people declaring X is town, I have lost track sorry. :\

$200 on Tenchi.

Okaaaay?

Tenchi, as far as I know, you aren't an impressive scumhunter and you get into trouble early for theory stances.

Because I always forget Mafiascum is a place where every minute detail in your post will be scrutinized!

Also, SpyreX, I am usually more paranoid then most. Therefore, I do not just clear people just because you say so. Also, I am wary of scum getting some brownie points just because they "figured out" that somebody is town. So... reasons?

And the most effective way of dealing with this is

asking why that person must be town?

That's how I see it. And seeing that I would not be getting (clear) answers this is moot.

5. Sum up your playstyle in one sentence. I find myself not sticking to one singular playstyle.

Overtly self-unaware answer. Everyone has plenty of persona to spill over.

Actually, I feel that my answer is more self-aware than it should be. I KNOW that I don't play one singular style, and it would be a mistake, or more confusing, if Town would rely on previous meta for me to guage my performance in this game. And that I KNOW.


And how hypocritic for you to say something similar to what I have said?

[Ojanen]

It wasn't lazy, it was efficient. There is a difference. Why spend a ton of time uselessly searching and maybe finding it in time for RVS or just wait and get a shout when that was over anyway.

"Where is the game thread?" pm to mod is 5 words of ton of time and effort...
Anyway, this line should be dropped, it's unlikely to get anywhere and from so far you give the impression of pretty much treating the whole D1 as RVS.

No, not useless. I'm getting the meta out of the way now, and if I were to make meta arguments later without justification you can use these to impeach me.

The problem with your meta was that it was presented so vague and seemed so vague to yourself too. All those words to say that SpyreX and tajo are cool guys, they and vollkan and myko are good players, you want to policy lynch Empking, Tenchi is a weaker player in your opinion as is ckd in scumhunting and 7 are quite neutral/do not know. Some of it didn't really resonate with this game either - no-impact Hoopla for instance is a contrast to this game.

Since your last paragraph touched upon it, how many lynches do you currently think would be ideal for D1 here?

And how hypocritic for you to say something similar to what I have said?

You said "I change playstyles".
I gave the extremes of one relevant parameter that defines play markedly, within which I fluctuate a lot and explained the inner process clearly as I perceive it. Imo there's a difference.

[Tenchi]

Of course Ojanen, since you defined a range, that makes your answer more definite than mine.

/wrist

[Ojanen]

I defined the psychology behind it. I gave the reasons for which I think I play as I do. I cannot always control but I observe.

[Kinetic]

[...] so far you give the impression of pretty much treating the whole D1 as RVS.

Interesting overarching statement. That isn't how I feel but thank you for assigning that sentiment to me, I'm sure later in the game when you're looking for ways to lynch me you'll have no trouble finding it again. (If you didn't guess, this means I think that your way of thinking is more akin to scum in this situation).

No, not useless. I'm getting the meta out of the way now, and if I were to make meta arguments later without justification you can use these to impeach me.

The problem with your meta was that it was presented so vague and seemed so vague to yourself too. All those words to say that SpyreX and tajo are cool guys, they and vollkan and myko are good players, you want to policy lynch Empking, Tenchi is a weaker player in your opinion as is ckd in scumhunting and 7 are quite neutral/do not know. Some of it didn't really resonate with this game either - no-impact Hoopla for instance is a contrast to this game.

Well I'm glad you can dismiss everything so quickly. That's generally not a stance I take, but we will see how it works for you.

Since your last paragraph touched upon it, how many lynches do you currently think would be ideal for D1 here?

Right now I think Empking + 1 would be ideal. If we don't lynch Empking I'm ok with only a single lynch.

[Ojanen]

[...] so far you give the impression of pretty much treating the whole D1 as RVS.

Interesting overarching statement. That isn't how I feel but thank you for assigning that sentiment to me, I'm sure later in the game when you're looking for ways to lynch me you'll have no trouble finding it again. (If you didn't guess, this means I think that your way of thinking is more akin to scum in this situation).

When I look at it I can see how I was exaggerating in some aspects. But I was thinking of your description of an approach that seemed to apply almost purely meta on D1 (before this post). You explained you want to remove weak players first and didn't find it wise to disturb bandwagons that otherwise form. (post 111, last paragraph)
Could you explain why my thought process is scummy to you? I'm interested in getting more familiar with your way of thinking so that I can decide whether I'm interested in lynching you for myself, thank you very much.

[mykonian]

guys, before we lynch anyone, please let them post... (Q21, Kinetic)

[Kinetic]

[...] so far you give the impression of pretty much treating the whole D1 as RVS.

Interesting overarching statement. That isn't how I feel but thank you for assigning that sentiment to me, I'm sure later in the game when you're looking for ways to lynch me you'll have no trouble finding it again. (If you didn't guess, this means I think that your way of thinking is more akin to scum in this situation).

[...]Could you explain why my thought process is scummy to you? I'm interested in getting more familiar with your way of thinking so that I can decide whether I'm interested in lynching you for myself, thank you very much.

Not all your thinking, just your rationalization in this particular argument. I find that when players start overreaching on their facts (in this case you even admit to it, which is a town tell). Its one of the little tells that I note that people make when they're trying to make a case stronger without actually having the facts back up how strong they feel the case is.

Its a little thing, but if you were to make a case in the future and then used said fact as "evidence" it would be even more absurdly scummy. Right now I find it mildly so.

[Kinetic]

guys, before we lynch anyone, please let them post... (Q21, Kinetic)

What?

[curiouskarmadog]

fyi, busy this weekend, will update/check in monday

[Ojanen]

Kinetic, all right.
Just two more questions today: what was your motive in telling me now what you would use catch me later if I was scum?
and: does this line of thinking apply to mykonian vs. ckd in one way or another in your opinion?

[mykonian]

guys, before we lynch anyone, please let them post... (Q21, Kinetic)

What?

sorry, I forgot about Empkings post.

Kinetic, all right.
Just two more questions today: what was your motive in telling me now what you would use catch me later if I was scum?
and: does this line of thinking apply to mykonian vs. ckd in one way or another in your opinion?

would you mind if I answered the last question? (if it is your point to show I'm not playing "fair")