Micro Normal 1094 | Game Over!
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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VOTE: ORAM
Hey Hey.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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UNVOTE:
VOTE: Testarossa-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Why are we putting somebody on E-1 on Page 1?-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Or just not paying enough attention.In post 21, ORAM wrote: Feel like anybody who actually hammered her so early would be scumclaiming anyway.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I didn't even catch this. Hm.In post 24, Black wrote:
This kinda feels like you know I'll flip townIn post 21, ORAM wrote: Feel like anybody who actually hammered her so early would be scumclaiming anyway.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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In all likelihood Testarossa might not be mafia because knowingly putting someone at E-1 is bringing a lot of attention to herself for little gain. I still kind of want to look at what she does from here before I commit this to a town read though.In post 31, Hu Tao wrote:
VOTE: thomithIn post 20, Thomith wrote: Why are we putting somebody on E-1 on Page 1?
Seems like someone saying the obvious to look towny
I voted anyway to see how people to react, and gave weak reasoning to see who would jump on me.
Gamma jumping on me seemed relatively organic. your vote however feels less so.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hu Tao-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I mentioned the E-1 for two reasons.
1) Even though it probably isnt a Maf tell, I still wanted to point it out because regardless of alignment I think putting someone on E-1 on page 1 is silly.
2) I knew it was a very weak reason to vote, and knew it would bring attention to me, so I could gauge the reactions it brought to get the game moving.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I do agree it was weird - it kind of was by design to see how people reacted to it. It was something I wanted to try out to get the game out of RVS faster and I think it did its job.In post 46, Hu Tao wrote:
Okay so you agree that your post was weird but just don't like my reasoning for saying it was weird? Okay I understand better now. And I would say it worked to get more discussion though I wish you waited until others chimed in so I could see any other's opinions on it. Thoughts on Black's reason for voting me based on your post?In post 43, Thomith wrote: I mentioned the E-1 for two reasons.
1) Even though it probably isnt a Maf tell, I still wanted to point it out because regardless of alignment I think putting someone on E-1 on page 1 is silly.
2) I knew it was a very weak reason to vote, and knew it would bring attention to me, so I could gauge the reactions it brought to get the game moving.
The reason I didnt want to wait too long is I kind of wanted immediate reactions (usually these are more genuine than reactions that can be planned if they're made like a day later or so, at least imo)
I'll be real theres always that small voice in my head that I could be getting pocketed by her (but that's more because I'm a little paranoid than anything she has done) - otherwise I'm not too concerned about it, because she seems to have given her own reasoning in a seperate post later, despite voting immediately following my post where I voted you.
Similar to your thoughts on me actually when I think about it - Gamma's vote felt authentic because it seemed like an immediate response to me acting weird, and also being the first vote reinforces that for me a bit.In post 47, Hu Tao wrote:
Also can you explain your thoughts on why gamma's vote feels authentic? All she said was that she feels like voting there at the moment?In post 36, Thomith wrote:
In all likelihood Testarossa might not be mafia because knowingly putting someone at E-1 is bringing a lot of attention to herself for little gain. I still kind of want to look at what she does from here before I commit this to a town read though.In post 31, Hu Tao wrote:
VOTE: thomithIn post 20, Thomith wrote: Why are we putting somebody on E-1 on Page 1?
Seems like someone saying the obvious to look towny
I voted anyway to see how people to react, and gave weak reasoning to see who would jump on me.
Gamma jumping on me seemed relatively organic. your vote however feels less so.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hu Tao
Your post to me felt like it could have been jumping on to a wagon/attempting to make it grow, almost in a way that felt like you could have been overexplaining the vote to justify it?
Again I concede that in hindsight maybe i should have let it play out longer, my bad there.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Acknowledging I've seen this just haven't got round to answering it yet - I'm leaving work here in a little bit so will answer when I get home.In post 52, Hu Tao wrote:Spoiler: to Thomith
Could you explain your thoughts on Black? Seems like she's saying the post is not weird, and thus her vote on me is for that. But you admit it is weird since you did it on purpose. What are your thoughts on the discrepancies there.
I do want to do this for now;
UNVOTE:
I do like your lines of questioning in the last few posts.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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The reason I don't think Black's reasoning for voting you is scummy, despite the discrepancy you mentioned is because she didn't just echo my reasoning, she had reasoning of her own, which makes me feel good about the vote, as she wasn't just sheeping me, but had her own reasons.In post 52, Hu Tao wrote:Spoiler: to Thomith
Could you explain your thoughts on Black? Seems like she's saying the post is not weird, and thus her vote on me is for that. But you admit it is weird since you did it on purpose. What are your thoughts on the discrepancies there.
I'm not too sure what to say here other than try and explain my thought process:In post 55, Black wrote: I kinda like Hu Tao's questions here
I don't really like Thomith saying his Testa vote was purposely weak after he got some pressure for it. To me it felt like his frustration was real and he was genuinely worried about someone not paying attention to the VC and hammering me, which I think makes sense from a competitive standpoint. But the conversation with Hu makes me think he's trying to play it off as it all being fake for the sake of reactions
I stand by the fact that I think the E-1 was silly, but as I said, I didn't think that Mafia are likely to do something to bring that much attention to themselves that early for no reason. I noted though that this was an easy vote, but didn't think that it would be easy to read scum using the opportunity to jump on this wagon, due to how easy it would be to justify the vote.
Because of that, I voted Testa, believing that there was a chance that I would be pressured for jumping on the "easy wagon" - however I thought it would be easier to gauge reactions for votes on me, because there would need to be a justification past "They put Black at E-1", so it would be easier to notice scum jumping onto a wagon on me if it did happen, or conversely to try and read who could be Town voting me due to good justification.
Not sure if I'm explaining it well, or if it's a flawed thought process but not sure how else to explain it..-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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May I ask why you felt my responses felt desperate?In post 62, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Not great. Feels kinda desperateIn post 60, Black wrote:
What do you think of Thomith's responses afterward?In post 59, Gamma Emerald wrote: I think Hu Tao picked up on the same things I did, just expressed them in a way that wasn’t perfect
I really just don’t care for the fact that the vote came before the explanation like it did
Just as a heads up I did end up responding in Post 61In post 65, Hu Tao wrote:
Okay I'll wait for your response thenIn post 56, Thomith wrote:
Acknowledging I've seen this just haven't got round to answering it yet - I'm leaving work here in a little bit so will answer when I get home.In post 52, Hu Tao wrote:Spoiler: to Thomith
Could you explain your thoughts on Black? Seems like she's saying the post is not weird, and thus her vote on me is for that. But you admit it is weird since you did it on purpose. What are your thoughts on the discrepancies there.
I do want to do this for now;
UNVOTE:
I do like your lines of questioning in the last few posts.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Hey!In post 85, Kittiesecret wrote: Good evening!
I just finished catching up, and there was a lot of things said with out a lot of things being said.
I am new I only have one game under my belt. And I don't have any day one reads on any one yet.
What do you think of Hu Tao's questioning of me?
What do you think of my responses to that questioning?
What do you think of how Black has been posting so far?
What do you think of Arko's read list? Do you agree?-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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[Spoiler = Arko post 90]
[/spoiler]In post 90, Arko wrote: I'll address the part about black later- I've got a bit of shit to do, don't think there is enough time tonight to really address that, honestly. I'll get to it tomorrow. And I've got pizza coming.
1 - Oram -It's still a neutral read, and they have 4 posts but I'll point out what feels scummy and townie. ISO 0 is NAI, but the general sitch there WAS a bit dodgy. Not sure WHERE in the chain though it was dodgy- vote 1 on black wasn't shocking, vote 4 (yours) was bold- a lil too bold for scum. so I've got a feeling the dodgy part is vote 2 or 3. It's less about the content, and more the chain of votes itself was pretty fucky. It's not directly scummy, but has the possibility to be done by scum. Probably a statistical read if anything. ISO 1 is just stating the obvious. considering it's still page 1 with that post, it's pretty NAI. ISO 2 is dismissive. NAI, but dismissive posts CAN be used to scumread. There isn't enough posts though to use it. ISO 3 can be seen as a townie train of thought, but I can't really tell how like it's truthful, or real. Basically- Slight bits of town, slight bits of scum, mostly NAI. not swinging either way to be town or scum, not enough of both to be null. If anything, oram is slightly more town than scum. but it's pretty hard to distinguish.
2 - Thom/Black -My thoughts on it is that there is very likely one within it- considering their interactions. but of them being a team, yes that's a likelyhood. My feeling on that was mainly how honestly, both thom's AND black's interactions didn't feel very real when interacting with each other. It's possible ONE can be town, and like- statistically possible both are, no confirmations on that type of thing. But I do feel that they are more likely paired to each other if one is scum than someone else.I actually made a small mention that black flipping scum is way less meaningful on thom than thom flipping scum on black- Due to the possibility of thom following black, and the fact black DID accuse thom.
3 - Naerys -Yeah, I can see why. I didn't really order my reads by least scum to most scum- but yes, I did mention the fact Naerys was on a bit of a slippery slope to null, as they are closer to being scum than town by a sliiiigggghhhht bit. so yes, I do actually agree with you in not really liking the posts. but personally, too little posts, and not too strong of a dislike for me to put in null.
Specifically want to ask about the bolded, it may be me not understanding things correctly, so just want to make sure I 100% understand, but is the bolded not the direct opposite of what you said in your reads post regarding me or Black flipping scum?-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Well that didn't work...-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Let me clarify what I meant by comparing the two posts I was confused about:In post 95, Arko wrote: No, the bold is just there to give a "Title" to a topic. and no, it's directly brought up in that that either TvS or SvS is possible.
In post 81, Arko wrote: *SNIP*
Something is pinging to me here that black is scum. Considering I completed 1 game with them as scum... it feels similar to that game. but it also feels just mildy scummy. and then town at the same time. It's unironically a 50/50 whether they are town or scum, and that's not a good thing. I'm saying it now, I'm not feeling black as town. And I don't like it.Black - Null -If Thom is scum, I'm honestly feeling this has a higher chance of being scum if not.
I'm not gonna list what has been said already, it's pretty obvious I agree just by the position. However, the thing I DO want to add is their interactions with black generally read to me like crazy as either scum trying to follow a townie, or a scum acting pair-pair with their partner then realizing: I should probably distance. Yeah,Thom - Null -the first scenario mentioned should be a good explanation.if black's scum the chance of thom being scum is definitely higher. More than what black would be if thom flipped scum though-
Stuff I have bolded and italicized is what is confusing to me, as it reads as contradictory to me, but I could just be misunderstanding it. Either way I'm very confused by the wording here.In post 90, Arko wrote: *SNIP*
2 - Thom/Black -My thoughts on it is that there is very likely one within it- considering their interactions. but of them being a team, yes that's a likelyhood. My feeling on that was mainly how honestly, both thom's AND black's interactions didn't feel very real when interacting with each other. It's possible ONE can be town, and like- statistically possible both are, no confirmations on that type of thing. But I do feel that they are more likely paired to each other if one is scum than someone else. I actually made a small mention that- Due to the possibility of thom following black, and the fact black DID accuse thom.black flipping scum is way less meaningful on thom than thom flipping scum on black
I remember your name! the marathon comment has made me feel old though - the fact I joined this site when I was 13(?) is absolutely crazy to me.In post 107, Klick wrote:Hi that's me
VOTE: Thomith
Do you remember me? You were in all the good marathons like ten years ago Good to see an old face.
I'm hoping I catch up to the recent meta of this site eventually...In post 110, Klick wrote:
I love how 2013 this post isIn post 36, Thomith wrote:
In all likelihood Testarossa might not be mafia because knowingly putting someone at E-1 is bringing a lot of attention to herself for little gain. I still kind of want to look at what she does from here before I commit this to a town read though.In post 31, Hu Tao wrote:
VOTE: thomithIn post 20, Thomith wrote: Why are we putting somebody on E-1 on Page 1?
Seems like someone saying the obvious to look towny
I voted anyway to see how people to react, and gave weak reasoning to see who would jump on me.
Gamma jumping on me seemed relatively organic. your vote however feels less so.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hu Tao-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I feel good about Kittie for now I think. I like how they answered the questions - sure it had to be prompted, but I think there was a decent amount of analysis in them. I'm curious to see their answer to my first two questions though.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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She* Apologies.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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VOTE: Arko
That is not at all what your first post said.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Why?In post 144, Gamma Emerald wrote: I feel good about Arko for now-
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Do you agree with it?-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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"If Thom is scum, I'm honestly feeling this has a higher chance of being scum if not."
This bit is the bit that specifically sounds like the contradiction to me, because it sounds like you are saying if I flip scum, than black has a higher chance of being scum than not, which sounds different than you saying black flipping scum says more about me than me flipping scum on black.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Tbh to me I also thought it was weird that so many people were scumreading Black, but (at the point you made this post) not many people had voted her despite having her as a scumread... I'm going to leave it alone for now though, because it seems the game has moved past that now.In post 134, Testarossa wrote:
How so? Tbh her post felt pretty neutral to me. I would get it if that would be based on getting some vibes from that post, but I don't think she has said anything substantial?In post 127, Thomith wrote: I feel good about Kittie for now I think. I like how they answered the questions - sure it had to be prompted, but I think there was a decent amount of analysis in them. I'm curious to see their answer to my first two questions though.
Maybe I am just salty that there are so many scumreading Black, but are that ambigous about it because former games, which doesn't help. lol
To me, Kittie reacted well to the questioning, and her thoughts seemed genuine and my gut is making me think she could be town after reading that post.
I want to see how she ends up responding to my first two questions before committing a read one way or the other (and of course, her responses to what has happened since).
Fair enough, That's why I was so confused about how adamant you were because there was a clear discrepancy thereIn post 150, Arko wrote: Oh shit, I did just notice a typo. Yeah, I fucked that in the end of that post, it is the other way around.
But yes, besides that ONE typo I've been saying the same thing.
UNVOTE:
At the point in time where I first starting reading Hu Tao as town, they were questioning things in a way that seemed like they were trying to get my motivations, and help move the game forward, which I don't really feel like Scum is likely to do that early?In post 152, Klick wrote: Got a bit of time before work
I feel like the townreads on Hu Tao are rather weak reasoning for how strongly they're being expressedIn post 137, Arko wrote:3: Klick voting Hu Tao: Can I get some like, thoughts on this vote? you are probably the first person here to have something besides a town read, let alone having a scum read. Would also be nice to hear your thoughts on more than just Hu Tao though.
I see no real reason she couldn't be scum
Her posting feels... careful, is probably the best way to describe it? I feel like there's a deliberate effort to make her posts feel like accurate description and to put out a large amount of content
I'm not really feeling the belief behind those thoughts though
Could you elaborate when you say you don't feel belief behind their thoughts?
Why do you think a Black/Gamma scum team specifically could be possible? I haven't seen too much interactions between them that could insinuate that unless I've missed something?In post 158, Hu Tao wrote:
You're selling me on Black. I could see a Black + Gamma team. I think you're my first true townread so far.In post 151, Arko wrote: Anyways fuck it I've got a reads list to post.
Same reasons. I want klick to say why they scumread this.Hu Tao - Town -
Indirect read on Thom, mentioned directly in the post about black. Go there if you wanna learn why thom is likely town.Thomith - Town -
Still like testa as much as the previous read post, but since they posted more, I have more confidence in it. Honestly can see putting it up to town later.Testa - Possible Town -
Generally no reason to suspect currently. Last post was good but not like, spectacular.Kittie - Possible Town -
I like naerys, definitely closer to town than scum. Problem is I don't have too much confidence and they haven't been really too active. still need a bit more time to decide, but what little there is I'm liking fine enough.Naerys - Neutral -
I don't mind gamma, but hasn't really been pinging either town or scum sensors. felt like they went into the background, honestly. It's not that you haven't posted much, you've just faded in compared to the other people I've been seeing, talking more about... etc.Gamma - Neutral -
Generally needs to elaborate more. slightly disliked their predecessor, and I don't know what the actual fuck is going through klick right now. Please, please god elaborate with your thoughtsKlick - Neutral -
No further elaboration. Full, entire post for this. Go read that.Black - SCUM -
scum is Black + one of Gamma, Klick, Or Naerys I presume. Other combinations possible, but less likely to me. If anything, I should try to look at black's patterns a bit- might confirm hu tao a bit more, because I think she might of pulled the same thing she did in the recent scum round and possibly even the newbie with someone else.
Do you think that aggression says anything about Gamma's alignment though? I feel like it's NAI most likely?In post 165, Naerys wrote:
I dont like the aggression in this post.I agree that bad play should not be tolerated, not even newbies. But pushing for their 3rd or 4th post? That feels as if you were a shark that has smellt their preyIn post 162, Gamma Emerald wrote: Like, you seem dead-set on me being scum for…pushing a new player to provide better content??? And you additionally seem to be giving that new player a pass for what exactly???
Like, I’m not gonna play with kid gloves on, those were thrown in the wood chipper after my last off-site game. I am not gonna just let bad play snowball because a player is newer.
I'm going to properly read the Black case now.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Okay, read the black case.
The effort put in makes me feel better than I did about Arko.
To be honest, I've never hugely liked meta cases - I do kind of see the comparisons, but not sure I want to 100% commit to any kind of scum read on Black solely based off a meta case alone. I find it a little weird that from what I recall, a lot of the early suspicion on Black was purely because "she's playing like she did in other scum games", which I'm not sure how I feel about.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Ok I re-read through, and to be fair, the only two people that mentioned suspecting black for mainly meta reasons, or because of previous scum behavior, was Arko and Kittiesecret.In post 172, Thomith wrote: Okay, read the black case.
The effort put in makes me feel better than I did about Arko.
To be honest, I've never hugely liked meta cases - I do kind of see the comparisons, but not sure I want to 100% commit to any kind of scum read on Black solely based off a meta case alone. I find it a little weird that from what I recall, a lot of the early suspicion on Black was purely because "she's playing like she did in other scum games", which I'm not sure how I feel about.-
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I dislike that the Suspicion on you seems mostly on Meta, and that suspicion on you seemed to come quite quickly, but despite a lot of people suspecting you it took a while for anyone to commit to a vote.In post 187, Black wrote:
What is your read on me?In post 186, Thomith wrote:
Ok I re-read through, and to be fair, the only two people that mentioned suspecting black for mainly meta reasons, or because of previous scum behavior, was Arko and Kittiesecret.In post 172, Thomith wrote: Okay, read the black case.
The effort put in makes me feel better than I did about Arko.
To be honest, I've never hugely liked meta cases - I do kind of see the comparisons, but not sure I want to 100% commit to any kind of scum read on Black solely based off a meta case alone. I find it a little weird that from what I recall, a lot of the early suspicion on Black was purely because "she's playing like she did in other scum games", which I'm not sure how I feel about.
I feel like you have responded to the suspicion well (Specifically in #98, #114 and #167), because it didn't feel like you were purely in defense mode, as you were asking questions, or otherwise furthering the narrative of the game to keep things moving.
Kind of unrelated to my read on you, but something I want to mention anyway, is I disagree with this:
While I understand your point, I think it definitely matters the type of questions that are asked, and even if you aren't asking questions, whether the comments you are making are working towards the solve or progressing the game. You can pressure someone for what you feel is "bad play", but if there is no way for them to really respond (or it's unclear), that feels a little anti-town to me.In post 169, Black wrote: *SNIP*
This case on gamma is just bad. Asking questions is like the easiest thing for scum to do so I'm not sure why gamma not asking questions is scum indicative
I want to tentatively read you as town I think, but as I said early, there's just that little bit of paranoia that you were trying to pocket me in the first few pages, but I'm trying to view everything else objectively rather than basing my ideas off that, because I feel like I can't objectively pressure you or read you based off something that you aren't able to control-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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In post 195, Gamma Emerald wrote:In post 85, Kittiesecret wrote: Good evening!
I just finished catching up, and there was a lot of things said with out a lot of things being said.
I am new I only have one game under my belt. And I don't have any day one reads on any one yet.
These do not line up imoIn post 126, Kittiesecret wrote: What do you think of Arko's read list? Do you agree?
I feel this is accurate for page 4.
Why don't you think they line up?
In post 204, Kittiesecret wrote: *SNIP*
Testarossa... That was a ballsy move, the e-1 on page one. Makes me think scum, paired with the fact that she didn't come back until post 78. I don't find the leaving of the vote to be indicative of anything tho, and I accept the reasoning on why it hasn't been moved.
Why do you think scum would make a ballsy move early? Would that not just bring a lot of attention to them?
Do you think being defensive is indicative of alignment?In post 207, Kittiesecret wrote:
This seems a tad bit defensive...In post 206, Gamma Emerald wrote: You seem impossible to please atm. Despite openly admitting to faking your reaction, you still find an excuse to keep pushing me.
Just sayin'
Spoiler: Gamma's Wall on Kittie
After reading this wall I did read back through Kittie's posts, and could potentially see where Gamma is coming from, specifically regarding Kittie potentially seeming self-concious to post content.
Specifically at the start of her wall post Kittie ended up saying this:
In post 204, Kittiesecret wrote: ok here it is, I am sorry its long... expect more like this from me. and I apologize in advance for those as well. and its a little scattered. but I hope you get my point.
This feels like something I used to do as Mafia, almost feels as if It's highlighting "Hey, look at the long content post I'm making".
I dislike how 16 was never really elaborated on.In post 214, Hu Tao wrote: Thoughts on naerys, everyone?
112 I thought originally seemed town motivated, while it doesn't go into huge detail, it explains at the least the first bits of her thought process.
It does seem as if Naerys sometimes is posting to seem like she is contributing, or at least be a presence (this and this come to mind), which does seem as if it could be indicative of her being Mafia. Finding it hard to get a strong read at the moment though to be honest.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4783
- Joined: January 20, 2011
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Could I ask if that's still based on early game, or has your read changed at all? Have things I've done since made you think I'm more or less likely to be scum?In post 241, Black wrote:
Stale meaning it has been there awhile. I still think Thomith could be scum. And yeah I think you could be scum too but I mainly want to put pressure on you to actually do stuffIn post 240, Naerys wrote:
This post is so bad. Stale vote? Feels like you are well aware who is town and who isnt.You are trying to position yourself on a wagon that you feel like it has chance of going through.In post 226, Black wrote:
I'm willing to explore that wagon. My vote on Thomith is pretty stale and I still don't really trust him but he's doing more than NaerysIn post 223, Hu Tao wrote: Thus why I'm asking about Naerys. Thoughts there?
VOTE: Naerys
Doing more than me? Yeah, that is right. I sometimes get moody and lessen my activity a bit. Not AI for me though.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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While it's kind of a WIFOM reason, I do still think it would be crazy for scum to E-1 on Day 1 and bring a bunch of attention to themselves.In post 243, Black wrote: I still would like to hear thoughts on Testa. Her ISO has some indicators that she's solving but it doesn't feel like anything scum couldn't come up with. Her posts have this agreeable tone that I would expect from scum that is trying to blend in while not making too many enemies. I'm not sure if she is the best fade today but I'm curious what other people think about her
I do think it's worth noting that She seemed to not take a strong stance until 133, which was after the Black wagon started gaining momentum, so I could see your point about not committing to reads to not make any enemies. definitely something to keep an eye on. I do think 191 alleviates some of my concern regarding trying to avoid making enemies though, and that post seems genuine, as I did have similar concerns myself regarding the Black votes (or rather lack of votes compared to how many people said they suspected her).
Testarossa's questioning is something I like as well, because the questions she is asking do seem to be helping progress the game, get peoples thoughts, and get a better idea of where everyone stands.
I'm not sold that Testa is scum, but do want to note a Testa flip could give us some information on the reactions that happened in the early game/first few pages.
Why not?In post 254, Hu Tao wrote:
I agree that kitties post was not that great.In post 234, Testarossa wrote: Kitties post wasn't that exciting to me, it gave more the vibes Arko's first readlist had to me with being kind of vague on most people. I don't get in contrast to that this hard scumread on Gamma.
Gamma's case feels a bit oldschool and I also think she has some points. Her energy for doubling down on Kittie here feels townie imo.
I don't get this though. Why would you bother to please her or what do you mean with it?In post 206, Gamma Emerald wrote: You seem impossible to please atm. Despite openly admitting to faking your reaction, you still find an excuse to keep pushing me.
I think I want to do this for now, because of what Gamma has said, and what I also thought of in 238:
VOTE: Kittiesecret-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Did you ever explain this vote?
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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To be honest my point in mentioning that vote was because I didn't think they did explain the vote, but realise the sarcasm doesn't travel that well on the internet but that's my bad.In post 265, Black wrote:I'm a little confused by this. I'm assuming you opened up Klick's iso to comment on this vote. Why didn't you take 60 seconds or so to look through it to see if he explained it? He doesn't have many posts and they're not very wordy
What is also my bad is I just double checked their ISO again because of you pointing it out and notice they did explain it so that's also my bad.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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The people you replaced.In post 282, Enchant wrote: Wait who is klick and ORAM-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Is this post satire?In post 290, Black wrote:
Is this real? If so we're seeing things very differentlyIn post 280, Enchant wrote: Totally mafia
Hu Tao
Kittiesecret
Arko
Naerys
Gamma Emerald
Testarossa
Black
Thomith
Klick
ORAM-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I'm pretty sure it's a shitpost.
Enchant has themselves listed as town, then every other player, including those who have replaced out as "Totally Mafia"-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Ah gotcha, yeah I assumed you were just playing along but I see what you thought that list meant nowIn post 294, Black wrote: Oh lol. I actually read it wrong. I didn't pay attention to the top half of the post and assumed the list was ordered from most scummy to least, that's my b-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I don't think I've lost my thunder - while I'm not posting as actively as I have been (I have an assignment coming up, and am moving extremely soon), I'm still keeping up with the game, and attempting to still be commenting on as much as possible, even if it hasn't been in real time.In post 339, Testarossa wrote: Having read thom's recent posts I realized I have forgotten most of his stances since his reaction test and and went through his iso. I townread him for his dedication earlier, but also kind of think he lost his thunder since then. I think my problem here is that he comes across as a bit self-conscious going by how he seems to focus on other peoples reads on him, at least if they seem to suspect him. His Arko push looked alright on the surface, but failed imo to deliver explaining why Arko being contradicting about his Thom/Black thesis is actually scummy. ( even although it turned out just to be a typo)
Can you actually explain why you thought what was scum-indicative from Arko?
I question reads on myself to either a) Respond to any confusion, or defend myself if I am able to. from my perspective I know I am a mislim, so if somebody is suspecting me I need to convince them that they are wrong to avoid either being tunneled, or otherwise incorrectly suspected. b) Try and see the motivations behind the suspicion. Again I know that any suspicion on me is incorrect, so I find it useful to try and understand the reasoning for somebody suspecting me incorrectly, to try and figure out if this is just town being wrong, or scum trying to push a mislim on me.
The reason I went so hard on the contradiction because while contradictions aren't always inherently scummy, the intentions behind them definitely can be. From my perspective, there was a chance that Arko was wording things in a way that could mean he could push for either mine/blacks elimination, and potentially pivot what he "meant" the message to say depending on what wagon seemed to be gaining ground.
This is an example and I know now that this isn't what he meant, but let's say he was pushing the argument that Black flipping scum meant that I also was likely scum, however the Black wagon was not gaining enough speed, or people were looking at wagoning me instead, because of the contradiction, he could pivot onto me, and because the contradiction may have made the meaning of the post more ambiguous, he could have feasibly tried to claim that me flipping would give more information on Blacks alignment instead.
Depending on how he explained the contradiction, it felt as if he may have been trying to keep his options open on myself or Black, which read to me as potentially being opportunistic scum - again the fact that this was a typo cleared up the situation, hence why I unvoted.
It is noted that you seem to have started questioning me pretty much immediately after Black said she would not be opposed to my elimination today though.
Honestly, if this were happening to me back in like 2013, I probably would be getting frustrated/angry right now (honestly, reading back some of my games from 10 years ago make me cringe now...), but I don't know how to try and change your mind if it's a gut read, because I feel like nothing I will say will realistically change your mind completely, so getting frustrated with you over it feels like a distraction and waste of time, where I think that energy would be better suited to trying to prove you wrong through my actions in the game if I can.In post 341, Black wrote: *SNIP*
It's hard to explain but I get this gut feeling about certain people and sometimes I can't shake it. It happened in the last game I played with Crescent. They were doing all the townie things you would expect and no one really seemed to scumread them except me, and I ended up being right about them. I'll admit it's not a strong read and probably not worthy of fading him but I wouldn't be opposed going there
@Thomith if you're town then I know how frustrating this type of read can be. You've been cooperative and helpful and I still can't shake my gut feeling. I will say you have managed to keep your cool despite me having this feeling. I'm not really sure how to read that tbh. Most townies get frustrated or mad at me when my gut is wrong about them but maybe you're just level-headed
I questioned if your read on me had changed at all, to see if there was anything I could potentially answer for you to clear things up, but when it became apparent that it was mostly a gut feeling, I dropped it.
At the end of the day this is also a game, I'm here to have fun, not get mad over things.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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UNVOTE:
VOTE: Enchant-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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E-2 by the way.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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What do you think of Kittie's vote for Enchant?In post 387, Naerys wrote:
Enchant likes to troll at D1, so its hard to read them.In post 319, Testarossa wrote:
My problem is I have trouble with thinking your tunnel on Black feels like Arko's tunnel on her for example. Your play comes off as more static here, kind of like scum that doesn't know how to find a better target and how to engage with it. While I am no fan of the beetlejuicing argument, it's difficult to ignore how you were more present the very moment the wagon on you was formed. Can you explain why you think Black comes across as more opportunistic and with no intention of scumhunting here?In post 245, Naerys wrote: I am trying to figure out people. My D1 is usually bit weaker, but it gets better.
I am still on Black. I dont like her positioning upon me. She calls it "putting a pressure on me" but to me it feels like pure opportunism.
Also what's your take on Arko, Enchant slot and Thom?
Arko is thoughtful, feels like town.
I dont like Thom´s jumping on Enchant so null tier for now.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Looked back at the Enchant votes to see if there may have been any bussing on this wagon.
I feel pretty good that this vote seemed genuine - I'm townreading Hu Tao anyway, and being quick onto the Enchant wagon makes me feel better about them than I already did.In post 337, Hu Tao wrote:
Oh LOL then I'm definitely fine voting EnchantIn post 335, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Enchant replaced klick FYIIn post 332, Hu Tao wrote: Kittiesecret - could be scum
Arko - leaning town, like the reads posts
Naerys - could be scum
Gamma Emerald - null maybe leaning town. Idk
Testarossa - maybe scum?
Black - prob town
Thomith - null
Enchant - no clue how to read
Klick - maybe scum, never explained scumread on me
Rough idea of how I'm feeling at the moment
VOTE: Enchant
Not sure of the vote count
There's a world I guess where this is scum sheeping things that people have already said, but at the same time, newer players can also do the same thing so this is NAI at best I feel like. I'm willing to POE Kittie for this, I think at least for today.In post 381, Kittiesecret wrote: UNVOTE:In post 333, Black wrote: You should both consider that you may be voting for limbait and join me on the Enchant wagon. I don't think I would be opposed going Testa or Thomith but I think their activity level and the solving nature of their posts could be useful even if they're scum here. As of right now those are the only 3 players I'd be willing to fade
I could get on board with this if only get reduce the chaotic energy to make the game more readable.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Enchant
Not much to this vote, again there's the WIFOM of does Mafia hammer their partner on Day 1, especially when the game was relatively split at this point, and wagons kept trading throughout the day. I feel like I'm also willing to POE Gamma here I think, again at least for now.
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I mean it's possible, but it didn't look like anyone else that voted Enchant wasnt doing it genuinely, at least to me.In post 414, Naerys wrote: Hmm the question is would be scum so bold as to bus their partner at d1?
The only vote that's hard to read is Gamma's, but tbh I'm inclined to believe Gamma is probably town here.
As Gamma said I'm not sure why you claimed, but that's fine I guess.
I'm going to need to reread everyone that wasnt on the Enchant wagon at some point soon, but right now I think I'm leaning between Arko/Testa as the last scum.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I think I'd still like you to answer this please Naerys.In post 400, Thomith wrote:
What do you think of Kittie's vote for Enchant?In post 387, Naerys wrote:
Enchant likes to troll at D1, so its hard to read them.In post 319, Testarossa wrote:
My problem is I have trouble with thinking your tunnel on Black feels like Arko's tunnel on her for example. Your play comes off as more static here, kind of like scum that doesn't know how to find a better target and how to engage with it. While I am no fan of the beetlejuicing argument, it's difficult to ignore how you were more present the very moment the wagon on you was formed. Can you explain why you think Black comes across as more opportunistic and with no intention of scumhunting here?In post 245, Naerys wrote: I am trying to figure out people. My D1 is usually bit weaker, but it gets better.
I am still on Black. I dont like her positioning upon me. She calls it "putting a pressure on me" but to me it feels like pure opportunism.
Also what's your take on Arko, Enchant slot and Thom?
Arko is thoughtful, feels like town.
I dont like Thom´s jumping on Enchant so null tier for now.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Is it only because of gut that you think it was a bus, or is there any other indicators that make you think it was a bus?In post 425, Testarossa wrote: Inclined to think it rather was a bus, at least by gut. I can see a world with Arko as partner though. Ultimately I think it might be smarter to lim in me/Arko today as it's the smaller lim pool to clear. In worst case, if it should go till D4 half the Enchant wagon is going to get killed anyway, the off-wagon pool most likely never.
I doubt Gamma is the busser if it was a bus. Nobody had expressed intent to hammer, and Black seemed to be having a relatively hard time convincing people to jump on the wagon in the first place (it took a good few pages before the wagon grew), so I don't see Gamma hammering that early as the partner in my opinion.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Actually I guess Enchant did fakeclaim IC. Hm.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I feel like there's a world where this is Scum trying to make their partner look good, while giving enough distance to avoid a pairing forming - stating that she doesn't understand the read, but also pointing out that she gets a good vibe on the slot.In post 78, Testarossa wrote: I don't really understand ORAM's reason for voting Gamma tbh. Like there wasn't any real interaction between Gamma and Thomith for her to follow up after the vote anyway and Thomith brushed Gamma aside pretty fast anyway.
I like their post and timing though with looking elsewhere and felt kind of similar about the situation minus the Black townread. Probably my first positive vibe.
This was made after multiple people had already started jumping on me for the early pages, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), this was after Gamma, Hu Tao and Black started pressuring me for it, which I think is worth noting.In post 79, Testarossa wrote: Hu Tao looks alright as well. Her vote looked at first kind of like by textbook tbh, however I find that more nai. Everything that followed up looked good to me.
I disliked Thomith's early "bait" posts more tbh and that he ignored Black when he thought of himself acting suspicious for going for an easy wagon, when she basically the same. Probably in line with his read on her though, which formed shortly after that.
I don't think he acts like scum that got caught redhanded though. He just seems overexplaining in general to me, at least his dedication seems genuine.
In post 88, Testarossa wrote: What pings you as scummy about ORAM, Arkos?
It's funny that you see a possible Thom/Black team. I thought they are t/s at most as they were acting too much together in like 3 situations at the beginning.
What feels similar about Black to your last game with her and would rather lean scum than town here?
I think I would put Naerys a bit more below, I kind of disliked her unvote, although for me it's more a gutread.
These two posts seem like they could be subtly defending the Enchant slot? Pointing it out, but I do want to reread the context of the posts around it to see if I get a different vibe than I did just from the ISO.In post 132, Testarossa wrote:
I see your point regarding his Thom read. I have my thoughts about that as well, which reads else do you dislike though? Your readlists are pretty similar after all, so I figure you must be unhappy with his reasoning.In post 97, Black wrote: Arko's posts however...meh. I'm getting bad vibes here
Speaking of that, on what is your scumlean on ORAM, now Klick, based on?-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Why don't you like this claim?
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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This makes me feel better about Gamma being town I think. From my POV, ORAM here was Scum defending a townie to look good should I have flipped Day 1, so the vote on Gamma seemed part of that defense.In post 63, ORAM wrote: I actually believe Thomith about his thought process, I think it's flawed and more complicated a plan than necessary but it feels real to me.
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
If you thought Thomith was being weird, why vote him with no followup? One could say you've voted and explained later yourself.
I think Black and Hu Tao can be town for now. My gut says at least one of the scumteam is in the group of players who haven't engaged yet, but it's early in the day and as they get involved they should become sortable.
I don't know how to analyse the second point without it being pure WIFOM, so pointing it out, but leaving it alone for now.
This feels like trying to push someone who is widely townread to try and muddy the waters a bit.In post 152, Klick wrote: Got a bit of time before work
I feel like the townreads on Hu Tao are rather weak reasoning for how strongly they're being expressedIn post 137, Arko wrote:3: Klick voting Hu Tao: Can I get some like, thoughts on this vote? you are probably the first person here to have something besides a town read, let alone having a scum read. Would also be nice to hear your thoughts on more than just Hu Tao though.
I see no real reason she couldn't be scum
Her posting feels... careful, is probably the best way to describe it? I feel like there's a deliberate effort to make her posts feel like accurate description and to put out a large amount of content
I'm not really feeling the belief behind those thoughts though
I guess there's a world where this is a bus, but with how townread Hu Tao was at that point it feels like that would just be counter productive I guess?
In post 362, Enchant wrote: Also Arko mafia
I don't know how to read these weird interactions with Arko. Want to point them out, but it's Enchant, so who really knows that they mean.In post 402, Enchant wrote: Eh. Throw someone else under bus to save self?
I guess i can try that.
VOTE: Arko-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Kittie's vote on Enchant didn't seem like a bus, so I feel better about her too.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I don't agree with the statement that I've been disappearing into the background.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Since you are now seemingly scumreading me, can you explain what you meant by this originally? What changed between this post and now?
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I was going to defend Arko here, and say I didn't think he was the potential scum on the Black Wagon, because I remembered the sequence of events incorrectly, and thought he was one of the first on the wagon, but on a reread he was actually third.In post 446, Gamma Emerald wrote: Mainly the stance on the flipped scum feels like what I’d expect scum to do
I also think the Black push is concerning in retrospect
Reading back though, it didn't seem like there was a huge amount of substance that seemed to be contributing to the Black Wagon, as Testarossa's vote was RVS still at that point I believe, and Naerys voted Black in 112, but this also seemed like early game vibes more than anything.
All this to say I think Arko's vote was the one that actually seemed to put pressure on to get the wagon going. There didn't seem to be any other strong wagon going at that point in time, so it wasn't as if this was a counter wagon in response to something I don't think.
There seemed to be multiple people suspecting Black, but there was a hesitance to put her at E-1, again pointing it out, not too sure how to read into that at the moment.
On a reread I like Hu Tao less than I did. Their early game questioning is what seemed to be carrying the Town Read for me, they seemed to be one of those people who while off the Black wagon, were kind of advocating for it still? Not sold though because Klick voting them for no reason as a "bus" would still feel quite weird to me. The early vote on Enchant also makes me still lean town I think.
I like Gamma more than I did, it seems to be applying pressure to get answers, but doesn't seem to be "stuck" on votes too long once getting reactions/answers to its pressure.
Naerys was still putting pressure on Black in 240, despite the wagon seemingly being dismantled for the most part at that point, while Testarossa jumped onto the Naerys wagon as soon as it started to pick up speed again.
Testarossa also jumping in with 339 to start questioning me, right after Black said she would potentially be willing to fade me still honestly makes me just think Testarossa could just be opportunistic scum trying to find a counter-wagon to Klick/Enchant (I think I mentioned that this felt weird to me before, but reading this again immediately pinged as weird to me again).
My gut is telling me there's a scum in Naerys/Testarossa.
I think I want to do this for now, to try and get things moving.
VOTE: Testarossa-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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In post 158, Hu Tao wrote:
You're selling me on Black. I could see a Black + Gamma team. I think you're my first true townread so far.In post 151, Arko wrote: Anyways fuck it I've got a reads list to post.
Same reasons. I want klick to say why they scumread this.Hu Tao - Town -
Indirect read on Thom, mentioned directly in the post about black. Go there if you wanna learn why thom is likely town.Thomith - Town -
Still like testa as much as the previous read post, but since they posted more, I have more confidence in it. Honestly can see putting it up to town later.Testa - Possible Town -
Generally no reason to suspect currently. Last post was good but not like, spectacular.Kittie - Possible Town -
I like naerys, definitely closer to town than scum. Problem is I don't have too much confidence and they haven't been really too active. still need a bit more time to decide, but what little there is I'm liking fine enough.Naerys - Neutral -
I don't mind gamma, but hasn't really been pinging either town or scum sensors. felt like they went into the background, honestly. It's not that you haven't posted much, you've just faded in compared to the other people I've been seeing, talking more about... etc.Gamma - Neutral -
Generally needs to elaborate more. slightly disliked their predecessor, and I don't know what the actual fuck is going through klick right now. Please, please god elaborate with your thoughtsKlick - Neutral -
No further elaboration. Full, entire post for this. Go read that.Black - SCUM -
scum is Black + one of Gamma, Klick, Or Naerys I presume. Other combinations possible, but less likely to me. If anything, I should try to look at black's patterns a bit- might confirm hu tao a bit more, because I think she might of pulled the same thing she did in the recent scum round and possibly even the newbie with someone else.
These were the two posts specifically that seemed like you were giving yourself a reason to jump onto the Black wagon, saying you could be convinced, throwing subtle sus on Black without voting/putting at E-1. It's a minor thing, but those two posts gave me pause on the reread.In post 182, Hu Tao wrote: I don't like Black's 180 on me. Seems like omgus. Unless they are known for being defensive in this way?
At the end of the day though, Klick could have been the scum in that group who didn't vote Black but subtly were making it seem like they may have - I forget who said it earlier (will go back and grab the quote) but the reluctance to put Black at E-1 from Klick could have been because scum was on the wagon already, which is why I'm more between Naerys/Testarossa at the moment.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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This is the post I was thinking of regarding Klick not joining the Black wagon.In post 424, Testarossa wrote: It's weird though how Klick was all fine with the Black wagon, but explicitly said he didn't want to give it further momentum. Either he just wanted to avoid being the E-1 vote or his partner was already there and they didn't want to be both on a potential lim.
Klick was townreading him and Arko always had that slot in their nullreads, but always so phrased like "could be scum, but also town". Although he had Klick as second lowest read, but still as neutral. By reads it could fit well for keeping a partner warm. I still kind of think that whole meta case on Black was too over the top for scum though.
Leaving Naerys out, because of what I said before.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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True. Again, it was just something that pinged weirdly to me on the reread while specifically looking at how wagons were forming/changing, because of how quickly you were on the Enchant wagon, I still feel like you are likely town, it was just that time period specifically that I didn't notice before that gave me weird vibes.In post 455, Hu Tao wrote: Yes but clearly my read changed after I talked with black directly when she was at e-2-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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You're fine I don't mind people questioning what I have to say. I'll be honest I feel like I'm struggling to find direction this game so being questioned helps that a bit, so works out for me too.In post 457, Hu Tao wrote: Understandable, just trying to find who has scummy intentions with their reads here.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Can you explain what you mean about my "self-conscious lines" because I genuinely dont know what you mean when you're saying that.In post 467, Testarossa wrote:
Ngl, I already said it once, but these self-conscious lines ping me so badly about you, that I can never commit to a townread on you.In post 449, Thomith wrote: Testarossa also jumping in with 339 to start questioning me, right after Black said she would potentially be willing to fade me still honestly makes me just think Testarossa could just be opportunistic scum trying to find a counter-wagon to Klick/Enchant (I think I mentioned that this felt weird to me before, but reading this again immediately pinged as weird to me again).
Why do you think I would go for you as counterwagon without even suggesting you as option via vote? Read the room, at that point you were hardly scumread enough to get limmed, rather town or null, and Black even said she would rather keep you around for another day. Going for Kittie would have been better and more in line. Or voting Enchant, either get bus cred or the wagon dissolves because people don't trust me.
Can you explain why you joined the Enchant wagon? Also why do you think it's not Arko? He was putting pressure on Black, yes. But that doesn't mean anything ai. Scum can coast on tunneling as well.
Just because you arent voting someone doesnt mean you're not suggesting them as an option.
My wagon had grown once before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that it could have happened again, while Kittie's wagon stagnated after only a few votes.
In all honesty I was following Black with the Enchant vote. I didn't like the push on her so thought there was a big enough chance of her being Town to see where the wagon went, and if enchant flipped town I feel it would have still given us a decent amount of information on black/others on the wagon. Admittedly I didnt expect the hammer to happen so quickly.
I haven't eliminated Arko by any means, but he seemed to be the most active voice against Black, where at the time, the Enchant slot wasnt in much danger, so I just dont know if scum randomly throw themselves in the spotlight like that.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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This feels like a misrep to me, which I'm finding myself disliking. To insinuate that I am voting Testarossa simply because they have suspected me is not true. I have stated more than those reasons in 428, and in 449 I explain why I discounted Arko for now.In post 475, Kittiesecret wrote:
Originally, I felt your interactions felt very genuine and in line with trying to solve.In post 447, Thomith wrote: In post 204, Kittiesecret wrote:
*SNIP*
Thomith... a very busy bee, feels town to me. *shrug*
Since you are now seemingly scumreading me, can you explain what you meant by this originally? What changed between this post and now?
but watching as the game goes on, your posts feel flip floppy.
you went out of your way to build a case on 3 players and then arguably chose the one with the weakest case to cast your vote against. because they called you out for exactly what I'm saying above.
Testarossa, i feel is genuine in their quest to solve. she is interacting and asking questions. responding and putting forth good theories.
I don't think were going to hear from arko. i think we either elim the slot and go forth with the players we have. or hope that we get a good replacement.
I'm torn on where to put my vote at this time.
I "went out of my way" to start questioning 3 players at the start of the day because the game was not really moving, so I did what I could to start generating discussion.
How do my posts feel flip floppy?-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Spoiler: Testarossa Post 480
Not really sure how to format this, so I've just put my answers in bold.
Why do 411 and 417 rub you the wrong way?In post 494, Elements wrote:
Kittie's position is more poe where Thom I think is scumIn post 493, Testarossa wrote: Elements, can you explain your progression from Kittie as town down to your scumreads? Also why do you think that Thom is scum?
the tr of kittie was partly based on her being a newer player giving the benefit of the doubt to some of the "i'll read up in a bit" and "i'm not really sure about anything" vibe posts but then i remembered something either someone said or a game daisy was in where a newb!scum did exactly that just to be under the radar so that faded the bod. Wasn't a fan of the readlist especially the reasoning for the read on you. Generally not done anything that's pinged me as towny since that post i vibed with
Thomith I feel I may be tunneling on because of 107 which I can just see as replacement scum coming in and voting a buddy. I don't think I'll be able to see it a different way unless Thomith flips town.
Skimming Thom's iso I've only just properly clocked that their first vote was on ORAM which has given me pause
That being said 411 and 417 really rub me the wrong way
A lot of the read is based on partner equity
I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.
I find myself agreeing.In post 498, Hu Tao wrote: I like elements, just like I like arko so I don't see myself voting there today
I liked Arko's case on Black, in that the effort did seem town motivated, the same way that Elements' reread posts seem like they are trying to solve for the most part.
My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.
I don't think I'm willing to vote Elements right now. At most I might compromise on Naerys I think.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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For full clarity, at the time of the Klick post I believe that people were beginning to leaving my wagon, but still stating suspicion on me but wanting to move onto other reads at that point in time if I remember correctly.In post 507, Elements wrote:
This might change my view on Klick's post depending on how many were on your wagon at the timeIn post 506, Elements wrote:
I was not aware of this contextIn post 505, Thomith wrote: I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.
I'll have another look when I've got time
I jumped straight to towning a partner rather than reading a town is because in isolation those two posts just seem like passing comments for the sake of making them, rather than defending the person a wagon is on
This is why context is important
The ORAM post was when people had begun wagoning me though.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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I'm new to this terminology , wasn't a thing when I last played.In post 509, Elements wrote:
I don't understand most of this? You're saying you think your poe is town? Then why are they your poe?
My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.
I'm eliminating them from my POE I guess is what I should have said?
Basically I want to eliminate them from the list of people I think could be Mafia.-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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