Open 135 - Polygamist Mafia, Incomplete/Mod Error before 775
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Four of us have three friends who won't let one of their own die. Under any circumstances. Your fear of the Tenchi wagon (bussing in the RVS?) is noted. Having strong emotions about a particular course of events in mafia is anti-town, because every scenario is helpful in different ways, so hating RVS bandwagons is both irrational and counterproductive.PieIsPopcorn wrote:
Correct, but I detest random bandwagons and the RVS in general. I feel what I stated in my above post, that the bandwagon, that seems to be based on nothing in particular, will do little good besides Tenchi claiming a Lover (He could fakeclaim, of course, but we would have little evidence of such to begin with), which I don't believe would be particularly beneficial to the town. I fail to see any benefit that a random wagon gives us in this game, simply because we'll have no way of knowing if Polygamists are fakeclaiming lovers, or if we have legitimate lover claims. It may also put pressure on Techi, but at the moment he has absolutely nothing to defend against, so the pressure will be weak at best. I'd prefer to wait until I see something legitimately scummy to vote, and potentially for a bandwagon to form.Wall-E wrote:Not really. Any reason for the unvote? He wasn't in any immediate danger.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Personally I don't see Pie as jumpy, just upset at the speed with which the bandwagon formed on Tenchi. As for me, I tend to err on the side of risky plays, so I like a good early-game wagon, but certainly I know that not everyone is like me and Pie's caution is therefore justified (even if faked to cover jumpiness).
I'd also like to point out that it's possible Pie was bussing his partner to keep the scum off his trail? He seems to be the only one who was concerned with Tenchi's life.
Tenchi's vote on him would suggest otherwise, though, and if they are not partners I don't think Pie is scum. Tenchi wouldn't have pushed the distancing further with his vote.
Unvote: Vote: Tenchi
Hi Tenchi![url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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zwet, you'd garner a lot less negative attention if you didn't seem to crave it
your signature alone tells me you're considered something of a troll and proud of it
when you make a claim, like, "That vote was OMGUS!" you have to back the claim by showing some supporting evidence
simply repeating yourself won't convince anyone
in fact, it will likely get you hung
if you took the time to outline WHY you think a vote on you is OMGUS others might listen
it's completely useless to all of us for you to have a pissing match with another player, going back and forth saying, Nuh uh! Yeah huh! Nuh uh!
you don't have to be telling the truth, but you do need to be convincing... as it is now i'm afraid i'm going to have to push for your lynch whenever you do things like this: There is a reason this happens to you. Your pride in it is distasteful in the extreme.
i'm only telling you all of this because i've seen some very insightful posts from you in the past and i know you've got things to bring to the table that we need[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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everyone stop feeding the troll so much
zwet stop being intentionally cryptic for attention
HAEL NAU or whatever you said isnotobviously the words, "Hell no." You really expect anyone to understand that? Being cryptic is anti-town in this case.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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While it is an AtE, such things can be null-tells, and it's a very believable post regardless of the departure point.
*sigh*
It doesn't look like Archon is going to be posting much in this game. At least zwet is around to play, I'll say that much.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Tenchi wrote:
I don't know what to say since you used to prosecute me because for it (Appeal to Emotion) in our previous game.Wall-E wrote:While it is an AtE, such things can be null-tells, and it's a very believable post regardless of the departure point.
*sigh*
I was scum.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Yep, a whole bunch of people are trolling for information.
Tell you what. Everyone post a link to one game in which you were scum.
http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/inde ... pic=2546.0
Honestly, nobody has ever been able to get an accurate meta-read off me. But there you go.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Bargaining with your vote?Tenchi wrote:*you and Archon and Wall-E
I still think Archon is actively lurking though. Notice that instead of commenting on other players, he is commenting on his activity.
Archon: Answering my questions on 214 may change my mind.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Please note that I completely refuse to give evidence on why anyone in this game is or could be town.
As far as why Tenchi is scum, his case would be great against a player with a different meta, but against Archon I simply do not see merit here. Archon's failure to defend is noted as scummy, however.
For the record, two very pro-town looking players may try to distance (bussing) to keep the scum from targeting them at night and eliminating them together. It's a very slim chance, but I have already done it with my own partner.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Hear hear!mikek wrote:Looker, I think we'd just generally like some comments from you and myk was giving you an opening if you wanted it.
I can't really ask you to explain his erratic actions, but I will ask what do you think is being misrepresented, and by whom? To what end?zwet wrote:I can't really comment on the Archon case besides it being a total misrep.
I forgot this was NIGHTLESS!
Can you explain why? Or would that be giving things away, too..Wall-E wrote:Please note that I completely refuse to give evidence on why anyone in this game is or could be town.
Ok, I've never played a nightless before, so the implications of the setup hadn't occured to me yet. That said, I'm adjusting my policies accordingly, and would like to officially retract all my stupid statements to-date.
I'm going to fully explain why I think Archon's town in my next post.
This set-up is nightless. So that doesn't apply in this game.Wall-E wrote:For the record, two very pro-town looking players may try to distance (bussing) to keep the scum from targeting them at night and eliminating them together. It's a very slim chance, but I have already done it with my own partner.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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You didn't ask one.mykonian wrote:Looker, I heard far too little from some people, and direct questions may help to get you talking. You avoided the question nicely
Uh, let's ask him. Tenchi, are you known for pushing weak cases?Wall-e, does Tenchi know that he is slightly known for pushing weak cases?
It doesn't. I'm stupid.And can someone explain to me why distancing helps town?
Archon is town:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=
Modkilled in this game for claiming that the mod gave him permission to quote a PM the mod accidentally sent him describing the scum setup. Died town and lived a spazzy, non-contributing life while alive. He was aware of the discrepancy which was probably his major motivation for posting the PM in the first place. (off the record, KoC's call to modkill you was unfortunately necessary, but his own fault ultimately for tempting you with that and not qualifying that you aught not post it)
This is the only game he's completed. He acted the fool and learned some lessons about how to play here and he's about as good as I was when I first joined last year. Most every post I've seen from him when looking through his "View all posts by this user" list contains a scumtell, an appeal to emotion, fluff or something similar. It's his meta, and I won't lynch him for it. Neither should Tenchi.
I'm not saying he's guaranteed town by any stretch, but his meta would suggest that this game is just business as usual for him, and further evidence would be requred to convince me.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Unvote: Vote: Archonbecause Looker and I are polygamists pushing a mislynch.
What about Tenchi's case is so compelling to you, Looker? You say it's a good case, but what convinced you to vote Archon? The schedule post? It looks pretty real to me.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Woman: You're joking, right?
Kay: No ma'am, we at the CIA have no sense of humor that we are aware of.
Sigh. Well if I've screwed the pooch, sorry. I've been yelling at people all day not to joke around me because I don't get jokes (hence I suck at making them). Sorry myco, I certainly won't begrudge the vote.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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I miss questions sometimes because I find something I want to say and forget to answer them. I'll gladly answer anyquestions, please be patient with em.mikek wrote:Um?
Looker wrote:Wait, how do I keep gettin caught up in this Wall-E/Looker lover situation? That ain't got nothin to do with me so keep that little unfunny jokey joke attributed to Wall-E cause it ain't none of my business.Ace wrote:Also, the strong buddying between [Archon] and Wall-e is noted, and I now think the scum team is: Archon/zwet/Wall-e/Looker.
Archon and zwet claimed lovers. In 341 Looker claimed that he's not Wall-E's lover. So it can't be that Archon, Zwet, Looker, and Wall-E are all scum (or if they are, they've really screwed up because now Wall-E and Looker have no lover to credibly claim). Is this really that complicated?mikek wrote:Post 341 means that Wall-E and Looker cannot credibly claim to be lovers, so that can't be the scumteam.
Wall-E, you're pretty exasperating. Try answering some questions and giving some reasoning behind your actions (if there is any).
I had an idea based on the Looker/Me thing. Everyone should go around now and say the name of one player who is NOT their lover. No two people are allowed to say the same person. From this I will be able to divine several things using Excel. Thoughts? Looker's already done me, so I'll say that Acemarksman is not my lover.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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I defended Archon because I believed him to be town.mikek wrote:Instead of starting yet another tangential discussion you should slow down, stop flailing, and answer the questions being asked of you.
Why did you go from defending Archon to voting for him?
Why did you claim scum?
Why did you name Looker as a scumpartner?
Why did you unvote Archon?
Why did you vote for me?
I voted him to see what the reaction would be.
The joke was a joke, both partially to see how Archon would react and test my meta on him and to see how the town reacted to the possibility of his lynch.
I unvoted Archon because I still think he's town.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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Fixed.Wall-E wrote:
I defended Archon because I believed him to be town.mikek wrote:Instead of starting yet another tangential discussion you should slow down, stop flailing, and answer the questions being asked of you.
Why did you go from defending Archon to voting for him?
Why did you claim scum?
Why did you name Looker as a scumpartner?
Why did you unvote Archon?
Why did you vote for me?
I voted him to see what the reaction would be, both partially to see how Archon would react and test my meta on him and to see how the town reacted to the possibility of his lynch.
The joke was a joke.
I unvoted Archon because I still think he's town.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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PBPA: mikek
First post: Confirmation
Second post: After giving zwets a pass on his one-liner posting style due to meta, he goes on to parrot someone else's call-out of Pie's mini-flip-out. Next, he says this:
This rhetoric without reasoning is him greasing the wheels for a lover claim because he knows it would help the scum more than the town (it's case-by-case, but any massclaim is usually a bad idea day 1, in my honest opinion). He goes on, in his third post, to justify the massclaim's usefulness, because he's already stuck his head in.mikek wrote:By the way, I'm pretty sure that we're going to massloverclaim before this day is up. This will provide us with useful info---it greatly reduces the number of possible combinations of players that could be polygamists, which makes it easier to analyse votes and such. I don't think it gets the polygamists much, either.
I vote him and state my suspicions, and he ignores me, instead posting this:
Talking about something, even to denounce it (which he's clearly not) is a sign of interest. Like the little kid who studiously avoids looking at girl in his class or a man who repeatedly begins discussions about how vile he finds a certain kind of pornography... mikek, by talking (albiet neutrally) about a lover claim, is demonstrating a positive desire for it. The sooner the better.mikek's 3rd post wrote:About massclaim, I looked back at the previous polygamist game (viewtopic.php?t=9086) and they unanimously went for massclaim by the end of page 2. Thinking it through, here are what I see the advantages and disadvantages as being:
Pros- Simplifies the game- A massclaim reduces the number of distinct entities from 12 to 6. It basically reduces this game to Lovers Mafia (4 townies, 2 mafia lovers) except with each "person" having two votes and two voices. Instead of looking for a group of 4 in 12 individuals, we'll be looking for 2 groups out of 6 to be linked. This exponentially reduces the number of possible groupings we have to hypothesize about.
- Can help catch scum- Once we know everyone's claimed lover, we can look more skeptically at any linkings/distancings between people who claim not to be related. Scum may have contradicted themselves or revealed inconsistencies, depending upon what situations arise.
- Removes noise- We've got a bit of a problem initially in that if two people seem to be linked, it could just be because they are a townie lover pair. Once we know all the claimed pairs, we won't get this noise interfering with scum hunting.
Cons- Reveals targets- If a pair of townies are both particularly scummy or weak at defending themselves, that might make them a target for the scum to try and push a lynch on.
- Trains scum- Once the polygamists have made their false claims in-thread, they'll be more aware of the possibility of slipping up and revealing their true status.
His fourth and fifth posts are 'chime-in on the hot-topic' posts. His tone is neutral at best.
At this point zwetschenwasser and Tenchi got into the most ironic circle-jerk of a WIFOM mindbang I've ever seen and it's hilarious. Tenchi tried to teach zwets why his actions were anti-town by doing the same thing backto himand wound up getting voted for it.
Note here, in [*code*] tag to differentiate it from the case on mikek:
Code: Select all
sekinji uses rhetoric to back mikek's attempts to keep the massclaim idea circulating. Possible connection. ...but then... 182 has me thinking he's town.
231 nearly eliminates Archon as scum in my book once-and-for-all: Despite this I vote him to see his reaction.
247: zwetschenwasser continues to be a spaz. I'm really starting to hate that the most town-looking candidate is so linked to him, and being never 100% sure of anyone, I'm starting to push my zwets policy lynch a bit harder.
What about it?mikek, in his sixth post, wrote:OK, Easter weekend was a busy time for me and other people too, by the looks of things. Let's get cracking.
Firstly, welcome to our new players, Jazzmyn and Looker!
Secondly, wow, y'all post a lot. Got 100+ some posts to catch up on here. I won't comment on every little thing that catches my eye, although I'll be taking some extra notes for cross-referencing later. One thing I think will be useful is noting down who seems like they could or couldn't be partners and why. This might catch scum forced to claim.
Page 6: Tenchi prodding zwet further. Apparently zwet doesn't think Wall-E, Archon, or Ace have valid reasons for voting for him, but doesn't give any justification.
Linking players together into scum-triangles. Further clears zwets/Archon in my book.mikek, in his sixth post, wrote:Page 7: Tenchi says Archon's last few posts have been content-light. I think that's fair. ortolan makes a long post, most of which I agree with. What I find odd about it is how much he defends zwet (subtly, but he does). He also questions AceMarksman vis-a-vis the massclaim discussion. Ace responded:
Again, fixated on the massclaim idea and commenting mostly on his own scummy call for it.mikek, in his sixth post, wrote:
His reasons are pretty vague but I think I've come to generally agree. My position: massclaim day one only if we can determine it will really help in some tangible way (probably don't). Massclaim day two when it's useful. This may be towards the end to allow us all the logic available to make the right choice, or it may be early on on Day 2 to direct our thoughts and scumhunting. What we should definitely not do is claim Day 1 unless it's obviously beneficial.AceMarksman wrote:My argument was "your cons in your previous post outweigh the pros IMHO." And this standpoint was for today, and I never supported not claiming at all, just massclaiming. We've got to see our position tomorrow to determine if a massclaim is needed.
[a small amount of hot-topic commentary with fence-sitting, then...]
I don't think I fit into any of those categories, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.Jazzmyn wrote:To me, those favouring early massclaim are suspicious; those who think it is suspicious to favour a massclaim later, e.g. Day 2 are suspicious; those who are defending those who appear to favour an early massclaim are suspicious. This means Archon, Zwet, Ortolan, and Mikek.
More linking of other players into triangles.mikek, in his seventh post, wrote:Jazzmyn makes the case that in this game zwet is not town with a scummy playstyle, but scum with a scummy playstyle! She also notes that Ortolan has been defending zwet, and that Archon's claim to be removing a random vote wasn't quite kosher. Possible linkage?
Despite all the scummy things I've done - voting with no justification, declaring one claimed lover scum and his partner town, throwing an accusation on mikek with no real explaination - he fails to even basically scumhunt by directly addressing me with a single question. Instead he's focusing on the clusterfuck WIFOM mindbang exclusively and pushing the massclaim by trying to keep the town on-topic about it. Once even one person claims he'll have useful information, and as long as he plays it cool he always has a safeclaim in one of his three partners.mikek, in his seventh post, wrote:Tenchi again asserts/asks that Zwet and Archon cannot be buddies. Zwet claims that bussing is not a viable tactic here. He's right scum cannot afford any of their own to be lynched, but he's not right that this means they can't argue/distance. Ace and Jazz question zwet's interpretation, and Wall-E is moved enough to actually place a vote.
Page 9: Archon OMGUSs Tenchi and asks for people not to vote zwet. Wall-E immediately unvotes and follows the vote onto Tenchi. WTF is that about? Tenchi and Ace call him out on this. Zwet says Wall-E is obviously town because he's acting crazy and... unvotes tenchi.
Archon gets worked up...
Sorry, I've never been scum.Wall-E wrote:Tell you what. Everyone post a link to one game in which you were scum.
Page 10: Looker replaces sekinj.
Ace calls out Archon on his OMGUS vote and votes for him. I think his logic is good.
Archon claims his lover is zwet. Um. This is a big thing, more on this below. Zwet confirms. Wall-E votes Archon (reasonable..).
Zwets makes a stupid joke claim. Wall-E votes him for it (?).
OK, that's basically up to where we are now.
So the biggest issue at this point I think is Archon's claim and whether we believe it. Frankly I find it kind of frustrating reading back over Archon and zwet's posts. They both seem to be very erratic players, however this could easily just be the way they play rather than an alignment-tell. Honestly, they've both been very anti-town. Archon with his claim (after consensus that early claim is bad!) and zwet with his... well... shall I say zwettishness?
What I find hardest to understand is the exchange between zwet and Archon on page 7. It doesn't make sense to me with them as town, and it doesn't make sense to me with them as scum, either. If they're town, why is zwet casting suspicion on Archon? Why call him a liar? If they're scum trying to distance, why on Earth did Archon claim zwet as partner? Are they just scum acting totally irrationally so we can't read them?
I also notice that Archon cast his first vote for Zwet, for asking why Pie is alive. Distancing? When he removed this later he claimed it had been a random vote, which does not ring true (as Jazzmyn said). Did he realize his error and try to correct it?
Archon's response to Tenchi accusing him of lurking was off kilter. Ever since then he's appeared very angry.
What we have to decide is what is Archon's motivation here. Is he a townie who's genuinely pissed off and claiming his partner because he's fed up? Is he scum who has melted down and claimed a lover in the belief this will remove suspicion? Is he scum who's feigning being a pissed off townie to clear himself and one of his scum partners? I know which way I'm leaning on this question, but I'd like to see everyone active and commenting on this situation.
Mod: Can you prod PieIsPopcorn please.
Mod: Votecount, please.- Wall-E's note: This isn't scumhunting.
@Archon: Why did you claim, what is your reasoning here? Why did you vote for your claimed partner in the first post?
@zwet: Why were you arguing with your claimed partner on page seven? What's up with the stupid falseclaim?
@ortolan: Why were you so defensive of zwet in your big post?
@Tenchi: Why didn't you ask the mod to prod PieIsPopcorn? What do you think about your earlier claim Archon + zwet cannot be buddies together, now?
A golfball sitting near a hole will never fall into the hole. It's only when the ball is moving that it can fall in. Discussion about a massclaim is the movement (regardless of the direction, it's still movement) and the massclaim is the ball. Actually doing it is when someone drops the ball into the hole, at which point we can't get it back (no metaphor is perfect).
More to come.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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What percentage value does a vote have weighed against a huge block of text that clears someone as town?mykonian wrote:Wall-e, it was one big gambit?
what did you get out of it?
and for the new people: please don't use things like this. This is or an excuse for scummy play, or town that made a play that is hurting him, and giving low profit.
That's the only defense I will give on this issue.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
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Wall-E Mafia Scum
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