There's also the possibility that you are scum, trying to loosen townie votes.discordian algorithm wrote:lets see if you are right.IH wrote:Think newbie game. Lynch -2 and Lynch -1 is not dangerous. It would cost way to much for scum to hammer.DA wrote:WIFOM vote: IH "Scum won't hammer in this game" is a horrible idea to infer. If it spreads unchallenged the mafia will have a much easier time forcing mislynches by hammering. I'm going to be highly suspicious of any player that cast the hammer vote on a mislynch.
Plus I don't understand how that is stupid, unless you try to defend someone with that argument.
err, what Khev said.unvote vote:discordian algorithm
Open 41-Quicklynch Nightless GAME OVER!, before 492
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"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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Might as well. Though, I think I understand.kaosfere wrote:
Would you care for me to further elaborate? I'd welcome it. That was my whole point.kaosfere wrote:Town still has more lives than scum, and will even if I get lynched. DA's reckless play was disconcerting. I believe that given enough time and rope, scum will self-identify, and I'd rather see us have more time for arguments so that the scum can out themselves than end up with truly discordian actions throwing the dialogue for a complete loop."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv. Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me.DeathSauce wrote:IH, by unvoting Khel at L-1 you have pretty much cemented my thoughts that your early vote on him was just an attempt at distancing.
vote:IH
THIS PLACES IH AT LYNCH -1.
^^ Just so no one canaccidentallyhammer."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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I just asked for people to lay out their reasons, I never suggested they didnt have any. I think youre really twisting my words here.Streeflo wrote:
Casting doubt on the Khelvaster wagon.Paradoxombie wrote:Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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Streeflo wrote:The DA lynch was too weird with her self-vote, and kaosfere was more justified.
And his more recent posts being:Sir Tornado wrote: On another note, I really am not liking the way Paradoxombie hammered Kaosfere and simply disappeared. He has now made 3 posts in this game. The first post was a post tentatively suggesting Discordian Algorithm to be scum (for self voting), the second one saying that he understood kaosfere's logic for hammering DA, and the third one being the hammer on Kaosfere. Something doesn't seem right here... (the hammer after understanding Kaosfere's logic for hammering DA part)
Casting doubt on the Khelvaster wagon.Paradoxombie wrote:Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.
WTF! Blatant contradiction?Paradoxombie wrote: While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv.Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me.
Vote: paradoxombieVote: Streeflo
The way he twists my words and attacks me is very scum-like. I also don't like how he votes me so freely. I see votes in this game as being total approval for a lynch considering that you are essentially signing their death warrant if they're town. Is it possible he doesn't realize that this isn't a normal game? Or maybe that is simply his fallback excuse?"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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okay I'm hesitant to vote Khelv since it seems like everyone on the wagon has the same reasons for voting and that makes learning from the lynch difficult. But I guess we have limited information already and it's not increasing at all particularly so screw it.
Since, apparently there's no claiming neccessary:
Vote: Khelvaster"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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My main reasons:groinhammer wrote: so why did you vote Kelv again? Have you given up on this game, or were you just frustrated with the pace (seriously...are you finding it too slow?)
Bothered me, even though he claimed he was actually trying to bait scum. Perhaps he was baiting tonwies(succesfully)Khelvaster wrote:DA, that is WIFOM you are doing right now; it is being done for no other purpose than to confuse us. You came off scummy from the start.
I wouldn't consider anyone hammering DA to be scum atm
His enthusiasm for an IH lynch seemed ridiculously opportunistic.Khelvaster wrote:IH seemed really happy to hop on the Kaos BW, and he voted right after I did. Linking himself to a town? Quite possibly.
Vote: IH
I don't have a problem with the pace of the game, but I thought that both the DA and Kaosfere bandwagons were pretty pointless and empty and we really were back at square one with nothing to go on. I felt Khelvaster looked scummy enough for our first "real" lynch. I don't think it was premature at all. No claiming is needed, and Khelv had every chance to defend himself. I thought everyone was aware that a Khelv lynch was possible and imminent and could've spoken up if they wanted to; I didn't realize there were only two people on the wagon."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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107 probably seems ambiguous because I wasn't trying to state anything. And why would anyone ever admit to NOT suspecting the player they voted? Sorry, pointless questions like that bother me.Sir Tornado wrote:Paradoxombie in 107 wrote: Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.
Did you, or did you not suspect Khelvaster? Your post 107 looks very ambiguous to me.Paradoxombie in 113 wrote:
While I see the possibility that they are partners, I don't see why you'd choose to vote IH over Khelv. Khelv seems significantly more scummy to me."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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To ask a question and thereby recieve an answer. Much as you did.Streeflo wrote:
Then why did you bother posting?Paradoxombie wrote: 107 probably seems ambiguous becauseI wasn't trying to state anything.And why would anyone ever admit to NOT suspecting the player they voted? Sorry, pointless questions like that bother me."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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I really don't keep track of every player who's away in every game I'm in if that's what you're suggesting. I think you're really leaping to conclusions to assume I'm lying. I just saw that you hadn't posted in a while and considering your vote is on me I saw it in my interests to make sure you were around. I fail to see what scum would have to gain from asking for a prod on you, anyway.groinhammer wrote: Maybe, but even if that was the case, you would've noticed that I said that I would be away from 17th-24th, whereas yr. post was dated as the 24th, so basically now it looks like you are lying.
I didn't say deadline retraction was the reason I'm not voting. I just voted you so you'd post some content when you got back. You did so, and I forgot to unvote afterwards.groinhammer wrote: I'm quite happy with my vote at the moment with Paradox definately topping my scum list. Also, I couldn't help but notice that yr. vote on me was sometime before the deadline was imposed, yet you cite deadline retraction as yr. reason for not voting???? I'd like another explaination please."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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I asked people to give reasoning when they voted Khelv in the first quote, and then when I voted Khelv I gave my reasoning(albeit a few posts later). I see no contradiction.
And why is it a contradiction that I think your reasoning on me isn't vote worthy? And like I said, in a quicklynch game like this we shouldn't be pressure voting, how is hammering any more significant than any other vote? Look at IH. He's been on all three wagons if I'm not mistaken. I fail to see how that's less significant than my own votes, just because mine were slightly later.(to be clear i don't think that makes IH particularly scummy at the moment, I'm just saying for arguments sake) I think the primary reason I was last on both wagons is because I took some time to consider alternate possibilities. It's not as though you, Streeflo had made a clearly better argument against someone else that I had ignored. In fact I fail to see how you are in any position to talk when you haven't done ANYTHING. For all we know you would've made the same votes I had if I hadn't. It's easy to sit back and criticize when you're so inert."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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Sorry for the triple post, but I've been looking over Streeflo's posts, and i gotta say I don't like what I see. He hasn't done anything all game but go after me for: 1. this BS contradiction I thought I cleared up a long time ago
and
2. for hammering two townies when (a.) he agreed that every vote is the rough equivalent of a hammer and there is another player with more votes on townies (b.) one of the wagons he called "justified" (c.) He has yet to actually condemn the other wagon or refute any of it's reasoning
He's even said that he thinks nothing will change his vote from me! With this lame argument?! WTF are you up to Streeflo?
Vote:Streeflo"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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I still don't understand, it looks to me that your voting me because I asked for a prod on you, and you have yet to explain how that is a behavior that is more likely to come from scum than town.groinhammer wrote:
No - I'd say it's more that you asking for the prod on me was allot more suspicious than innocent. I'm quite happy with where my vote is.paradox wrote:Groinhammer, you said you only voted me to see if I'd slip up and claimed you thought I did. Does that mean the sole reason your vote is on me is my asking for a prod on you?"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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(my parts in bold)
Overall, I'm glad that you have more reasoning than that I asked for a prod and voted you a couple times.groinhammer wrote:
This implies that you don't think Khelv is scum, yet 4hrs later you say that Khelv tops yr. scumlist compared to IH. This struck me as odd to say the least, especially seeing as IH has come across as scum so strongly (see my previous posts). Incidentally, this is the same thing that Streeflo picked up on.xombie#107 wrote:Can the people voting Khelvaster please carefully lay out the reasons for their vote? I don't necessarily suspect them, but if he ends up being a mislynch we're back to nothing to scumhunt but a bandwagon with no reasoning.
This isn't true on two accounts. 1. I don't even remember the full case about IH is, but he's never seemed as blatantly scummy to me as you claim he was. Also, this isn't proof of scumminess unless IH is confirmed scum. 2. Asking people for reasons does not automatically mean you disagree with an opinion. People often ask for reasons because the logic behind votes are the only way you can tell whether someone might be mindlessly bandwagoning. Sometimes you get lucky and catch scum making flawed, contrived arguments.
You then vote Streeflo in #125 - OMGUS as far as I can see.
I voted him because I thought he voted awfully freely and quickly for a replacement in a quicklynch game. When I asked him whether he was truly sure of his of his vote, he re-affirmed it.
You then randomly vote-switch with no explanation as to why you no longer want to vote Streeflo anymore
It had been six days, and nothing significant had happened. I said in advance that I suspected Khelv, so I don't see why you'd call it "random"
& decide to hammer Khelv for, as far as I can see extremely weak reasons, especially when compared to the Kaos hammer.
I don't know what point you're trying to make.
Now this was a little controversial b/c there was a miscount on the votes by Ryan, but I then you did explicitly state that you thought you were hammering (#165) so still a hammer I think you'll have to agree.
I've already stated that I don't consider a hammer different than any other votes in this game, since scum can quicklynch so easily. We shouldn't be throwing around pressure votes(althought I have done it accidentally[without thinking] a few times I now notice).
I know that you gave reasoning after the hammer, but that's the problem - it wasafterthe hammer (hindsight again..) which kinda negates that for me I'm afraid.
Fair enough, I've already begun to suspect you for bringing all this up so long after your vote, even longer after these things happened, and only after I asked twice.
& then we have the very strange #199 where you ask me to explain my suspicion of IH (this made me look at yr. history a great deal more). You then quickly retract this when questioned - just weird man.
Now you're really acting dense. I voted you and asked you to explain your vote on IH. Deathsauce pointed out that you already had, at which I unvoted. It's not weird, and even if it was, that doesn't equate to scumminess. I'm interested to know how many games you're in groinhammer, because I'm in five, and I really don't have the time to keep track of every argument every single player has given, and when and for exactly how long every player is away
Then I had the problem that I was going on holiday, so decided to post #208 the way I did. As I saw things, a town player would actually complain a/b this (at least a little - didn't you find it even slightly weird that I worded things that way???); however you completely ignored it which I saw as a kinda reverso-OMGUS.
I don't know what you mean, but idr why I didn't call you on voting me without reasons at the time. But I don't necessarily believe that you had all these opinions the whole time, mainly because you still didn't bother to explicate your opinion, even after you came back and I demanded content.
left things for a while & then asked for the prod & subsequent vote on me when you knew (yeah, not believing you missing that, probably to do with the fact
...so basically you knew that I'd gone away) & no, it wasn'txombie wrote:Vote: Groinhammer a little motivation to post when he gets backjustto do with the prod, as I said that was more suspicious than not. It was to do with the vote dude.
"It was to do with the vote dude"? Thank you for clarifying. But I already explained I saw you were away after I asked for the prod. 2 days later when you still hadn't posted, I looked to see if you had maybe abandoned your account and saw the notice in your sig. If you really don't want to believe me, then I obviously won't convince you, but it's seriously idiotic to make assumptions like that.
Maybe seeing I've taken the time (on yr. request) to explain my vote for you in greater detail you could do the same for yr. vote on Streeflo?
I think I clearly explained the entirety of my case on streeflo when I voted him. A benefit you did not feel the need to give me
Also, if you feel that I shouldn't be voting for you maybe you could tell me why on that front as well...
That makes sense."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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If I already knew any of your reasons to suspect Streeflo, I would have mentioned it in my case against him, and therefore you shouldn't have any problem laying them out since they're not a secret. If they are a secret and you don't want to tell them because you think that'd help Streeflo, then I definitely do not know them. So you imagine wrong, I imagine.JDodge wrote:
I'm not particularly inclined to at the moment, but I would imagine you have a clue since you're voting for StreefloParadoxombie wrote:
Could you clarify on exactly what your grievances with Streeflo are?JDodge wrote:The lack of people voting for Streeflo is depressing
FoS: Paradox
Not explaining yourself isn't very protown. But I'd be most interested to hear you try to argue how it is, and how asking people to explain themselves is antitown."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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I don't know what you mean, I just know what you wrote, and according to you, you won't clarify on your hazy,imo, suspicion despite a direct request. I think that's pretty undeniably anti-town/scummy.JDodge wrote:
Stop twisting my words. You know damn well what I mean.Paradoxombie wrote:
Not explaining yourself isn't very protown. But I'd be most interested to hear you try to argue how it is, and how asking people to explain themselves is antitown.JDodge wrote:
I'm not particularly inclined to at the moment, but I would imagine you have a clue since you're voting for StreefloParadoxombie wrote:
Could you clarify on exactly what your grievances with Streeflo are?JDodge wrote:The lack of people voting for Streeflo is depressing
FoS: Paradox"Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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And just like streeflo you attack me for lynching two townies when you said one was "expected" and don't have any criticism for the other. How does the fact that they were fairly quick make a difference if you thought they should have happened? I understand suspecting me, but it seems like you're putting alot of weight on it. At least admit that it's not the most solid case.timmers2001 wrote:Paradoxombie - The thing that most concerns me is that you dropped the hammer on the past two lynches."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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Well I'd agree, but I'm also counting how quickly and absent-minded the votes appear to me. Streeflo, you've been voting me since your second post, and haven't given much content or done much scumhunting since. Timmers looks like he was just waiting for the first thing to vote me over.Streeflo wrote:I wouldn't say your bandwagon was quick xombie, except possibly timmy's vote.
You think we should have let Kaosfere live?timmers2001 wrote:Does xombie look scummy to anyone else? He had no problem dropping the hammer on Day 2 relatively quickly, but before we lynch him he wants time to hunt for scum??? He certainly didn't give kaosfere time to hunt for scum."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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I really don't know what you mean, but the longer the day goes on, the better the chance that someone simply slips up. What we actually do doesn't matter so much as long as we're discussing something. I'm pretty satisfied with the pressent pace.Porochaz wrote:whats the point in hoping the day will go on longer so you can "explore some subjects" if your the one who looks like the main suspect? .
Kinda hard since you really didn't give any reasons for voting me.Porochaz wrote: Shouldn't you be defending yourself instead?
I don't understand this sentence, could you rephrase it?Porochaz wrote: People have been saying your scum for a while now, and whilst my opinion of some people varied, I never got that impression with you... I think Groinhammers post 288 is quite a good one and goes a long way confirming my suspicions against you.
While I don't actually suspect him for it, atm, I agree with the rest of what you said.Porochaz wrote: JDodge is next on my list, has he made any real contribution to the game, no he hasn't he sits there quietly and you all accept it. It might be his style but its not one that sits well with me... I want to see him post something real good, real soon....
Gah! Why do I deserve to be suspected for voting Kaos and Khev while IH doesn't?Porochaz wrote: In response to Groinhammer, I think timmers asked for a replacement due to his illness, personally IH has made some posts which don't look good and I personally wouldn't of played the way he has. However he did make some good posts and I agree with his stance on kaos and I dont think he should have been eaten for that and the events that preceeded it, as I think that was mainly Adel's silliness to prove a stupid point and kaos's stupidness."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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weren't you going to wait for SirTornado before?groinhammer wrote:Urrgghhh - ok, putting my vote back on xombie(this puts xombie at -1). Xombie asked for more discussion time (which you've now had I figure), but nothing much has changed from my perspective sovote: Paradoxombie."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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JDodge wrote:your question to him is what makes Streeflo scum
So neither of you have noticed anything new worth mentioning, about any other players?Streeflo wrote:I still think you are scum, and am flattered to hear you say that I am posting consistently (because I'm not)."Beware of Zombie Entanglements."
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