NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[ThAdmiral]

vote: revenus

you spelled "ravenous" wrong.

[ThAdmiral]

Also, before you guys start dumping on thamatuer, I just played a game with him. He is barely able to form coherent thoughts, attacks people based on emotion and dislike, and when attacked (as vanilla townie mind you) flails heavily. Not saying we shouldn't lynch him, but this is something for the good people of this game to consider.

I believe that theam can be read. If he's scum I believe it will show.

So how is this a good player list again.

Define "good".

yo, catching up.

Town lists are awful. You know who likes finding town? Scum. This is always a red flag for me when someone looks for town over scum.

You are wrong.

I agree with this.

It feels like sky is overreacting to seem like: "hay guise, I'm hunting scum!"

vote: sky

Unvote
Vote: ZeL1nK

The lady doth protest too much.

Really?

VOTE: Zelink

On one hand, scum have to be real ballsy to pull this off. On the other hand, I did warn him.

Is your case really that he said he was town?

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: Eh, it isn't a strong case. I don't really see any strong cases yet...I'm starting to think all or most of the scum are amongst the very, very quiet half of the players. It is, however, a pressure vote, seeing if he'll panic and make mistakes that'll give us decent information.

If you're going to pressure vote someone, it sort of defeats the purpose when you tell them that you are pressure voting them.

One of beck/pine is probably scum.

Sounds like town/town to me.

I think beck and pine are both town personally.

I actually agree with revenus here.

And iam, coming in and going "well I haven't posted anything but here is a post that I think you have fluffed" isn't really doing anything and you should be posting actual game content.

I think there was a lot of game content in that post.

[ThAdmiral]

ThaAdmiral: Vote por favor.

I have. Mod didn't include it.

@ mod:
vote: sky

In other news...
The pine/beck thing is old news now. I'm skipping over posts that involve them arguing any more with each other (mainly beck posts).

[ThAdmiral]

And scum should be shooting at people they think are PR, not people they think are just "town". In your scenario, it makes it easier for vanillas to do their job and lead town during day.

People who claim pr should be shot at by town too. There is a good chance scum would claim pr compared to vt because if they claim vt, town will take the risk. If they claim pr, they will have doubts about whether it is okay to lynch them or not.

Disagree. Vanilla is the most risk free claim for mafia, and therefore also the most common.

Here's my problem with townlists. It's Day 1. There's nothing much to go off of. To find pro town traits in someone this early in the game is questionable. Yes, there are people who are more town than others, and people who are scummier. But this doesn't establish them as town. Now, I need a lot of reading to do and seeing that is the weekend, I don't have the time to do it.

I also disagree with this. Not saying that reads can't change but you can sometimes get pretty clear signals about other people alignments, even on day one. I don't get how you could be up to date enough to know this is a relevant comment, but you also say you need to read and you don't comment on anything else?
I'm happy with my vote.

@ everyone else: sky is slipping under the radar pretty comfortably right now. Need moar votes on him.

[ThAdmiral]

@Admiral: Why does Sky need votes anyhow?

yo, catching up.

Town lists are awful. You know who likes finding town? Scum. This is always a red flag for me when someone looks for town over scum.

You are wrong.

I agree with this.

It feels like sky is overreacting to seem like: "hay guise, I'm hunting scum!"

vote: sky

Here's my problem with townlists. It's Day 1. There's nothing much to go off of. To find pro town traits in someone this early in the game is questionable. Yes, there are people who are more town than others, and people who are scummier. But this doesn't establish them as town. Now, I need a lot of reading to do and seeing that is the weekend, I don't have the time to do it.

I also disagree with this. Not saying that reads can't change but you can sometimes get pretty clear signals about other people alignments, even on day one. I don't get how you could be up to date enough to know this is a relevant comment, but you also say you need to read and you don't comment on anything else?
I'm happy with my vote.

@ everyone else: sky is slipping under the radar pretty comfortably right now. Need moar votes on him.

He's pretty much only talked about mafia theory for one. Plus he's wrong.

In every game I've played in scum have claimed pr. Pr claims help make them seem more important.

Cool story bro.

[ThAdmiral]

I think pine is town. As far as I can tell he doesn't put this much effort in when he's scum.

By the way, scum must be jumping in joy over how incompetent or uncaring 95% of the players are this game. Seriously, all they have to do is kill Pine, me, Slandaar, and sorgster and then ride Beck's impulsive no-content spam posting to victory. Everyone I didn't name, fucking step it up.

Chill out dude. This game is actually quite active. Remember: it's still early days and there's a long way to go.

Oh and sword of omens is probably scum. His first post going "oh hey zdenek glad to see you made it " is actually a huge scumtell.

How?

When I get to a pc, I'll explain why you are scum.

I've already explained why pine is scum

I'm sick and tired of people saying they are ignoring me, I'm making good points, I should not be ignored.

I'm not saying the game revolves around me, but when good points are being made they shouldnt be ignored.

I'm not going to get in to whether your points are bad or not, but you are being ignored by people because you keep hammering the same thing over and over and over again. It's not helpful for anyone else to read over the same stuff a bunch of times.

Also you are getting caught up in "right" and "wrong". This is a game where subjectivity plays a huge part. Unless you're scum you can't know the alignment of others and therefore can never truly be right and wrong. For example your case on pine is fine, it uses logic and is not invalid in any way - but I disagree with it because I believe pine is town.

I totally agree that it would be nice if Beck would shut the fuck up, but he's not scum.

You don't think Revenus was displaying any types of emotions?

I think the emotion he's displaying is rubbing his hands with glee as he watches the lunatic distracting everybody's attention by shitting himself all over the thread. If that counts as an emotion.

Take out the first and last sentence and I could maybe see that post coming from frustrated town, but as is, no.

I see where you are coming from but a lot of his other posts scream frustrated town to me. I honestly don't see scum playing it up to that extent. Your thoughts?

He's pretty much only talked about mafia theory for one. Plus he's wrong.

That's funny. So have you. We have a difference of game theory, big deal. As for my lack of activity, well, I try to post at least once a day. These big games move a lot faster than I am accustomed to.

Ok.

Anyway, I don't mind Revenus' play lately.

Unvote: Revenus

Vote: Funkybike1

He won't even explain his votes.

What is it that you don't mind about revenus' play?

[ThAdmiral]

Admiral, why is pine town to you?

I think pine is town. As far as I can tell he doesn't put this much effort in when he's scum.

[ThAdmiral]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=17230

It was a game I modded. He stayed under the radar pretty much the entire time, made no real large posts, etc.

[ThAdmiral]

I think pine is town. As far as I can tell he doesn't put this much effort in when he's scum.

I used to think this too, but there were a couple of games that threw this tell off.

Please don't rely on it por favor.

I'm not relying solely on that. He hasn't struck me as scum. Regardless of meta he has been posting a lot more than I expect scum in his situation would do, and I don't feel like he is panicking even though beck has been going after him pretty hard.

[ThAdmiral]

This is starting to stall a bit.

Okay, everyone in your next post, please list your top three or four preferences (not your top one that we've heard about ad nauseum) for

today's

lynch and a sentence or two about

why

for each. Again, preferably in new words an not the same ones you've used before. Rank-ordering is a plus.

Well obv sky is my main scum read at the moment. Other than that I have a bunch of town reads, and then there's a lot of other people who I basically can't distinguish because they haven't really done anything.

I will say I think the wagon on funkybike is a bit too easy. In terms of both target and how easily it is moving along picking up followers.

I get this weird feeling that everything that has come off looking 'scummy" so far hasn't been perpertrated by scum. I mean some of it is too stupid to say as scum, and some of it has just been misconstrued. I realise that is a little vague, so to point out some examples: pine saying something about not caring if someone else is scum, theam's false dilemma between pine and beck, everything funkybike says etc. I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

Just thought I'd mention I'm not quite up to date. I'm on page 21 and have run out of time. Will post again later this evening.

[ThAdmiral]

Multiple vig claims. Awesome.

It's like spartacus up in this bitch!

I am now caught up.

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah, last 4 pages don't have much to talk about in them.

[ThAdmiral]

the 2 people on that wagon I am most leery of is bvoigt and theamateur

I think the money place to look for scum on that wagon is the three S's: slaandar, sky and sodaspirit. Combination of gut feeling, my pre-existing suspicion of sky, and the fact that 3, 4, and 5 are the cliche cushy scum positions on any given wagon.

[ThAdmiral]

Its pointless voting funky today whatever his alignment

UNVOTE: funky

this is who I think is most likely scum :

VOTE: Hiraki

but ThAd is now firmly on my radar after his last post, that post seems really scummy.

Wow, an unvote and a retaliation. Didn't expect this big a response!

vote: slandaar

hes using information re the wagon on funky to try and cast suspicion on the 3 of us when we have no idea if the said wagon was scum or town, it makes no sense to do so in the way he is suggesting unless we know for sure funky is the vig... 3rd vote on scum seems pretty townie to me (i have no idea which vote mine was)

it reads to me like he knows funky is town.

Beck's response to this summarises my position quite well:

I'll say I think funky is not mafia, so someone pushing his wagon is scum.

the latter slots of a wagon are always more likely to contain scum. A scum is unlikely to be the first vote of a bus, and hammer-bussing winds up being silly obvious so the trend is towards the middle.

Further more, whether funky is town or scum, he's pretty derpy. It doesn't take Thad a special role pm for him to know you don't actually have all that much information on his slot. It's decent wagon analysis.

Thanks pops.

He's seriously hurting the flow of this game and regardless of his alignment, will accept any argument that is spoonfed to him if the writer simply praises him for good play.

How is he hurting the "flow of the game"?

If there's anyone I'd consider PLing in this game, it's you, Beck.

Are you considering it? He's making this thread a one man show rant. We need everyone involved to hope to find scum

Unvote
Vote Beck

"S" is for scum. Yet another person starting with s that's climbing my scum-chart. Good for you!

[ThAdmiral]

OK then ThAd lets go head to head today, you are scum im certain now

You know I'm scum... because I'm attacking you? Got it.

Wow, an unvote and a retaliation. Didn't expect this big a response!

What is scummy about that exactly? it seems obvious to me there is no point voting funky today whatever you think of his alignment so obv i unvote after his claim...

It struck me as interesting that you chose to jump on me directly after I called you out. It struck me as scummy because you had never mentioned any suspicions of me prior to that point, and you didn't explain at all why you thought what I said was "really scummy".

Beck's response to this summarises my position quite well:

I'll say I think funky is not mafia, so someone pushing his wagon is scum.

ThAd said previously:

Well obv sky is my main scum read at the moment. Other than that I have a bunch of town reads, and then there's a lot of other people who I basically can't distinguish because they haven't really done anything.

So, we can assume beck is a town read yet he does not use becks logic to find scum pushing the beck wagon, which is odd, truely, looking for any reason to get your vote on me first eh?

What?

[ThAdmiral]

Sorgster, you seem to keep jumping on every available wagon. However, I have to agree that SV is an idiot. For fucks sake, you can't get it right this early. If you do, its a guess. You are bluffing.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

YES, I'VE GOT SCUM. I'M JUST THAT GOOD!
Stop being cocky as fuck. Please.

This seems like you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You are saying it is scummy for someone else to jump on a wagon, then you jump on it yourself. Furthermore it doesn't seem like you are voting SV because you think he is scum, but because he is cocky?

[ThAdmiral]

Um ThAd, I talked about how I thought sorgster was jumping on every single wagon, instead of thinking before doing it, which has been corrected and I have retracted. Also, I am voting him because I think his being cocky is a bluff to cover his scumminess. Originally I thought it was just arrogance but when he continued to do it, I felt he was bluffing.

Fair enough on the retraction, but I don't get the second part. Being cocky to cover his scumminess? All he's doing is drawing attention to himself. How does this help him "cover his scumminess"?

[ThAdmiral]

I did not suspect you, however, you were also not a town read you were basically sat at null

And yes I did explain it a couple posts later, you seem to know funky is town.

Everyone needs to read ThAdmirals posts re funky, he clearly knows something we dont regarding his alignment.

This a gap in your logic; I am working off the assumption that funky is town in the same manner that you are working off the assumption that I am scum. What's the problem?

My stance re funky: who cares what his alignment is today? it will all be sorted tonight and then we can look at the wagon with proper information.

What's going to be sorted out tonight?

ThAds stance is one of a scums disposition trying to push his sky is scum read with a nonsensical reason and threw a couple other names in there to make sure it didnt look like that.

You're going to have to elaborate on this bit because, yet again, I don't understand what you are talking about.

[ThAdmiral]

What?

It means your stance is wrong if you were town. If you thought people pushing a wagon who you find town are scum then thats fine, but you did not use it to find scum pushing the beck wagon so you are just using anything you can to back up your vote otherwise you would not find beck town and everyone pushing his wagon town.

Your stance summed up: someone thinks funky is scum they must be scum!

There is no way you believe that, you must be scum.

I actually understand what you are getting at here, but I don't think the two situations are comparable. In fact I find this accusation patently ridiculous. I didn't even realise Beck had a wagon on him until rereading and I found out that he had a total of 4 votes on him on page 5, barely after we had gotten out of the random voting stage. I hadn't even gotten a town read on Beck at that stage which makes your accusation even more invalid.

ThAdmirals #640 is pretty bad.

Is it? k.

Slandaar's 699 is interesting becuase I've noticed a few people call ThAdmiral town,

but most of his posting I've seen has been badly thought out

. Slandaar's currently at null for me, but getting decent reads on these two shouldn't be difficult.

Ok. Another cheap shot. Fine.

[ThAdmiral]

This a gap in your logic; I am working off the assumption that funky is town in the same manner that you are working off the assumption that I am scum. What's the problem?

Why are you assuming he is town exactly? no im not assuming you are scum to make any of my other reads.

see? this is the easiest way to explain it, you are assuming someones alignment to make reads or accusations on others when there is no reason for you to assume he is town, its actually absurd.

ThAd = scum.

Ok. I'm going to give you a little history lesson to clear things up.
Pay attention now, because you obviously haven't been so far.

I first voice my thoughts about the funky wagon in this post:

I will say I think the wagon on funkybike is a bit too easy. In terms of both target and how easily it is moving along picking up followers.

I get this weird feeling that everything that has come off looking 'scummy" so far hasn't been perpertrated by scum. I mean some of it is too stupid to say as scum, and some of it has just been misconstrued. I realise that is a little vague, so to point out some examples: pine saying something about not caring if someone else is scum, theam's false dilemma between pine and beck, everything funkybike says etc. I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

Note: I also voice my thoughts on the people that have been copping a lot of heat up to this point (including funkybike), and my feeling that these people probably aren't scum.

Soon after beck posts this:

I can't believe I am actually saying this, but I am envoking a little bit of rainbow dash up in here, I think funky's play is way to obviously bad for him to be scum. I sadly agree with Shattered on this point that he is just n00b or something, I don't think he is scum. I do hope he participates more and starts providing content, but for now this wagon is no bueno.

the 2 people on that wagon I am most leery of is bvoigt and theamateur

Vote: bvoight

And I respond with this:

the 2 people on that wagon I am most leery of is bvoigt and theamateur

I think the money place to look for scum on that wagon is the three S's: slaandar, sky and sodaspirit. Combination of gut feeling, my pre-existing suspicion of sky, and the fact that 3, 4, and 5 are the cliche cushy scum positions on any given wagon.

Note: I say "any given wagon". This theory applies equally to town OR scum wagons, as the scum often like to get on in a good bussing position. This is somewhat irrelevant, however, because I do indeed believe funkybike is town.

Now that that's all out in the open,

can you please explain where I have shown inconsistency or have indicated that I KNOW funkybike is town

?

What's going to be sorted out tonight?

Funkys alignment

Are you going to kill funky?

You're going to have to elaborate on this bit because, yet again, I don't understand what you are talking about.

You were looking for any reason to put skys name in a bad light again.

Were did I do this? Do I have to give you another history lesson?

[ThAdmiral]

He is acting cocky, but that's not a scumtell as far as I know.

[ThAdmiral]

Still here. Feeling a bit ill though. Will post later when my head isn't spinning.

[ThAdmiral]

Oh great. Just 13 pages to read. I'm not going to be done this evening but I'll chip away at it. There'll probably be 10 more of the bastards tomorrow. Thanks in advance for that.

- Page 30 -

Both of you, can you give me your top 2 scum and town reads, and if you can a brief explanation of why.

I also would like both to comment on the back and forth between rev and myself, and the points we both have brought up on each other.

top 2 scum: sky and slandaar. I've mentioned why a bunch of times.
I've got a bunch of town reads. Pretty strong one's in there as well. I've named some names already but I don't want to put out an easy list for the mafia to use.

rev and you: as I said before I honestly think it's town v town and the only thing it's achieving is bogging down the thread.

I will respond later tonight, but I will quickly point out this;

I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

What has funky been doing exactly? yeah sitting back and sniping (bussing) so, how did you get this magical funky is town read? because his wagon was going too well? but wait a second, wasnt funky doing exactly what you think the scum are? so the votes should be vindicated from your standpoint surely?

No, basically. Who's he bussing btw? I thought you said I knew funky was town?

he says funky has been doing exactly what he expects scum to have been doing as shown in my #739

No again. He's not been sniping he's been trolling.

OK, nitpicking a bit but the wording here is pretty bad 'I will say' townies would just start with I think... its like he was thinking of NOT saying this which again backs the theory funkys town and ThAd knows it, hes saying 'i will say this' in defence of funky which means he didn't really want to defend him. AND of course, for a town read he really didnt do much to stop the wagon this is all he said about it and for such a strong town read too... that is very scummy especially the fact he wasnt going to say it in the first place.

Ok I'm done with this. If you're going to try to bring syntax up as an actual point you've more or less conceded the argument anyway.

@ everyone else: does anyone else see how slandaars case on me has changed from "he knows funky is town", to "not using same logic for beck's wagon", to "there's no way he could assume funky is town", to "he's justifying his sky read". Plus he is saying that I "know that funky is town" while at the same time is claiming funky is actually scum...
Guy's scum. Vote him.

[ThAdmiral]

- page 31 -

In this case, I think I'll be able to get reads on ThAd and Slandaar because of the wagon, when I get a chance to analyze their posts thoroughly.

No time like the present bro.

reads more of page

yayyy! more beck and revenus.

- page 32 -

Statements like "youre both town" scream: "I know you're both town because I know who everone in town is and it suits my purpose to tell you who is town because guess what? I'm scum"

How would this actually suit the scum though? If he died you guys would be more or less confirmed.

also... yayyy! more beck and revenus.

- page 33 -

@ Beck: Honestly the effort you are putting in to this, especially with posts like 806, is amazing. But please stop.

Slandaar - i only got about a quarter way through his iso, so i'll have to finish it tomorrow, sorry.i still think his targetted attack on TheAd was out of place...i'm leaving here in just a few so i will only have phone access until tomorrow...tomorrow should be light so i should be able to get some decent content on...

Ok. Looking forward to seeing a follow up here.

Slaandar's reaction to ThaD's vote is ridiculous, and this accusation is one of the most contrived things I have ever read.

So, we can assume beck is a town read yet he does not use becks logic to find scum pushing the beck wagon, which is odd, truely, looking for any reason to get your vote on me first eh?

Good man. Now lets turn this sentiment in to a vote, ey?

But thad slandaar drama is interesting keep it goin

If you want to keep it going vote slandaar. Trust.

@ slandaar - I was the first person to bring up that somebody on funky's wagon was scum here - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3523440

and than 5 posts later TheAd says the people I chose he disagree with and chose numbers 3, 4, and 5

so why are you grilling TheAd for picking somebody on that wagon, but not grilling me, since it was my suggestion to begin with?

ZING!
If you ever stop having tunnel vision with rev I would greatly appreciate a vote on slandaar.

I disagree that lurkers are much easier to lynch. Lurkers are much harder than active people to lynch imo.

Depends on the game but this is strangely true a lot of the time.

- page 34 -

Like iamausername's big post. I agree with a lot of his reads and it makes me feel better about him after him not doing much so far. But I am looking forward to him coming back so he can explain this:

Gonna run out of time if I don't rush some of these, so:

Town.

Ok. Up to page 35. Leaving it there for tonight.

[ThAdmiral]

- page 35 -

Also using ThAd's reasoning that funkys wagon went too well so hes town, I will use said logic to prove ThAd is scum by reversing it, if a wagon does not go well its because they are scum. So lets get to voting ThAd ya?

How many times does slandaar have to logic fail before you people will vote him? Srsly guys.

- page 36 -

PE: Okay, I think it's time to draw a line in the sand. Looking at that vote count, it is very clear that we're down to three reasonable candidates for today's lynch. Revenus, Funkybike, and Shattered Viewpoint.

I disagree. Still lots to talk about. Not the time to round down the suspects.

can someone lay out the case on shattered? he hasnt contributed much and is pretty delusional but I have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such

Hmm. slandaar making sense. Credit where it is due.

- page 37 -

I also don't like Pine attempting to limit our lynches to 3 targets when we have 10 days left.

Agreed.

- page 38 -

Shattered is delusional and isnt a bad lynch

Wait, what? You just said you "have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such". I was actually starting to feel you might be town, but that feeling has died.

Rev, I need to know how much experience do you have playing mafia?

Revenus is at Glorklike levels and is (rather evidently) a grandmaster of the game of mafia. We are blessed that he has graced us with his participation in this game. His mastery of every nuance of the game lets him tap into scumtells everyone else misses, like

And your outburst lasted for about 60 posts, and it was the very definition of stupid posting, so we should be voting you.

Statements like "youre both town" scream: "I know you're both town because I know who everone in town is and it suits my purpose to tell you who is town because guess what? I'm scum"

.


The best plan of action is probably to direct both the the cop and doc to Revenus, confirm his alignment, and then proxy all our votes to him for the rest of the game. Because we know, on His Revenus's good authority, that Revenus has epochs of experience in a magical faraway land, catching scum redhanded and vigging the remaining ones at night, whether or not he actually has a vigilante role, because he's just that good.


- - - If I actually believed Revenus was as experienced as he claims to be, I would be voting him since page 5 or so, indefinitely.

I know this is taking up a lot of space but I had to quote this in full. Hilarious.

Thanks for noticing I was better than you pops, you stupid shit.

Classy response.

(say what you will about this game it's damn entertaining)

- page 39 -

Sup.

Hi faraday. Um, where did you come from?

sky

/zelink/

salandaar

/revenus are all town

Booo. Shit replacement.

Sorgster, you seem to keep jumping on every available wagon. However, I have to agree that SV is an idiot. For fucks sake, you can't get it right this early. If you do, its a guess. You are bluffing.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

YES, I'VE GOT SCUM. I'M JUST THAT GOOD!
Stop being cocky as fuck. Please.

vote Vijay

better than all the other garbage wagons people seem to be stuck on, SV is obviously town

This is good. I wouldn't say sv is obv town but that was a bad vote by vijay.

- page 40 -

By the way, folks, I'd like to caution you to take Faraday's posts with a few grains of salt. I've heard him boast about having never been lynched as scum, which is quite an exceptional achievement. I was leaning towards Town on IAAUN, but there wasn't much to work with. Just be careful, Faraday is outstanding as Town but truly masterful as scum.

Pointless paranoia-mongering.

Sky is mostly http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3513423 town for that. it's more likely to be a newb town thought process, also if you need more recent things his latest post http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3533521 the language used here 'hindering the game' seems honest and more likely to come from town.

Don't agree with first link. That sounds to me like cliche "trying to sound town" scum propaganda. Everyone hears in their first few games "townlists are bad" or something of that ilk so it's easy to parrot that sentiment. The second one is from after you had decided sky was town so is moot.

Forgot about it until I started posting. I like most of what you have to say, and it occurred to me as I was reading to read your opinions carefully, just as I do with ThAd. You'll notice in my first wallpost (344 I think?) that I comment to similar effect about him. I have had experiences with both of you that make me extra cautious. Specifically, recalling your performance in Mini 1137, despite you being my post-mortem ally, got me both really nervous about playing against you. I don't know whose side you're on.

See, when you have that kind of "blew my socks off" experience, it's something you want to share with the class.

Hmm. Still don't like it, but slightly less so.

- page 41 -

slandaar makes some good points on thead

orly?

Im thinking we should lynch SV even though ThAd is scummiest player by a long shot.

if he flips scum which there is a fairly decent chance too then alls good we can celebrate etc.

however, if he flips town, we have some super solid scum reads right? we are guaranted 3/4 scum from his reads which we can now trust... so this seems to benefit us also... I see no reason not to lynch him in fact

unless, his reads are not as good as he claims...

what do you think SV?

Not sure if serious?

- page 42 -

Actually, I agree with Slandaar's assessment of the SV situation. If he is scum, which I think he is, then we can all celebrate, if not, we have brilliant town reads that we can all rely on.

You too?
Welcome to my scum list, friend.

[ThAdmiral]

- page 43 -

This response doesn't even make sense, 'thought I knew funky was town' makes perfect sense with what I said.

You are saying:
a) I'm scum because I've indicated I KNOW funky is

town

.
b) funky is bussing/funky is

scum

These two statements are incompatible and show cognitive dissonance.

- page 44 -

@TheAD, I'll probably switch to Salandar before day 1 is over, but for now I'm leaving my vote on SV. He is playing like how Elliberth did in another game and Eli was scum. Experienced players think they can get away with trolling and being thought of as town, im not falling for it. If he is town he needs to stop his bad play or he will get lynched.

I suggest people change their vote to him. If he is a town read, you need a real compelling reason why.

Good to hear re: your opinion of slandaar. My stance on SV is that he is trolling and will have to participate properly sooner or later, but hasn't actually committed any scum tells. We'll be able to get a better read on him then. In the mean time, however there are more solid cases on other people.
What are your thoughts on vijay btw? Another good option imo.

I think SV is looking more anti-town than scum. He's being a conceited son of a bitch, and to me this suggests the behavior of a bored townie or something. By no means is he helpful, I see him more in the troll direction.

This is pretty much how I feel.

@ThAd - sorry, I prefer

the air

vijay.

No apology necessary, this is acceptable.

- page 45 -

Sorry, can I get the cases on me? So at least I can do something.in this game?

Its there for you to see. I mention parts of it in my post just before this one.

Vote: sword of omens

I know he's been V/LA for the weekend, but seriously, this guy has been flying under the radar. Dude hasn't even voted the entire game.

I'm down with a sword of omens wagon.
UNVOTE:

##Vote:Sword o Omens

May as well chuck a vote in. VOTE: Sword

Nothing really to say though

three sword of omens votes in a row. Weird. As sky mentioned he's v/la. So...wtf?

[ThAdmiral]

he only 'scum hunts' myself and sky.

That is tunneling

Well it isn't by definition because tunnelling implies focussing on one person.
And I've also gone after vijay. So wrong again, slando.

[ThAdmiral]

Anyways, nice of you to popin with that short little comment, thats all you have to say on recent events?

Pretty much.

also, I took funkys claim as serious, if it wasn't serious that might explain a few things.

Which is it funky? are you the vig or not?

ThAd what did you assume?

That he was joking.

[ThAdmiral]

Unvote, Vote Soda

Vijay provided reads, he's trying and looks sorta town for it.

I think you mean: "Vijay provided reads, he's trying to look sorta town for it".

You were right the first time. vijay's defenses are all sounding like "I'm scum, but you have no way of knowing that."

Trying to play the game if and only if your neck is on the line is the definition of scummy. Unless you make pretty genuine "read my will after I die" cases.

I like this.

re: soda wagon
He's voting vijay so he's ok by me. Why have people started focussing on him? Is he the "in" lurker, the "cool" lurker to vote for now?

[ThAdmiral]

Since this IS a 50+ Day One game, and since unless someone else offered to replace in first, I'm almost certainly going to be playing, can someone give me a tl;dr summary of things?

Half the pages are beck v revenus. Ignore these. That should save you some time.

That said, what do you think about Soda?

I feel like soda is just another lurker.

Think one of {Slanddar, BV} is scum, but that the other is town.

Also, no more than one in {Pops, Zdenek} is scum; it's possible neither is.

Zel might be scum. Depends on Slandaar, though. Slandaar-town, Zel-prob-scum. Sladaar-scum, Zel-town.

Also, if Zel is scum, ThAd is town, otherwise, ThAd is significantly more likely than most people to be scum. Just an FYI.

These pairings interest me. Can you pls take me through the reasoning?

[ThAdmiral]

Every time. 10 new pages. Ugh.

Anyway I notice people seem to be talking about the 3-4-5 thing. If you notice I actually say:

the 2 people on that wagon I am most leery of is bvoigt and theamateur

I think the money place to look for scum on that wagon is the three S's: slaandar, sky and sodaspirit. Combination of gut feeling, my pre-existing suspicion of sky, and the fact that 3, 4, and 5 are the cliche cushy scum positions on any given wagon.

So the 3-4-5 thing was third in a list of three reasons why I thought scum might be among the 3 s's. I even admit that the 3-4-5 tell is not some super strong ultra-tell by describing it as "cliche".

Anyway.

I also notice slandaar is asking my why I think funkybike is town. I'm pretty sure I've answered this, but if I had to put it in a sentence it is largely because he is playing with a devil-may-care attitude.

@Thad,

OK, lurker, got it. What's your read on him, though?

Null without Iso'ing him. I'll do that later.

...to be continued

[ThAdmiral]

catching up thoughts:

rev's "scumslip" is a bit meh.

vijay is still scum

up to page 62. More later if I have time.

[ThAdmiral]

Random number generator gave me ThAd as a Target so imma ISO him.

How convenient. Well in any case I'm interested to see what comes up.

[ThAdmiral]

Ok, read Soda iso. I'm going to put this in capitals and enlarge it so everyone notices it:

*ahem*

SODA LYNCH IS A FUCKING COP OUT LYNCH. PLS PUT VOTES BACK ON SLANDAAR OR VIJAY. THESE ARE ACCEPTABLE LYNCHES, SODA IS NOT!

Everyone get that ok?

[ThAdmiral]

if ThAd isnt lynched today I will be very disappointed.

@ThAd: what happened to sky=scum?

No one is voting sky. It's not going to happen today.

In other news, can I get a quick summary of the Slandaar and vijay cases?

Thanks, ever so.

Yes. I'm going to put them in separate posts so they don't get lost among the fray.

[ThAdmiral]

Slandaar

- I first thought of him as scum when, after a fairly vague comment about possible scum on the funkybike wagon in the 3-4-5 slot, he both unvotes and attacks me. (post 581)

- After I vote him for his interesting reaction he instantly "knows I'm scum" and votes me back. (post 644)

- He uses the extremely contrived reason that I didn't look for scum on the beck wagon as a reason why I am scum. I refute that here:

What?

It means your stance is wrong if you were town. If you thought people pushing a wagon who you find town are scum then thats fine, but you did not use it to find scum pushing the beck wagon so you are just using anything you can to back up your vote otherwise you would not find beck town and everyone pushing his wagon town.

Your stance summed up: someone thinks funky is scum they must be scum!

There is no way you believe that, you must be scum.

I actually understand what you are getting at here, but I don't think the two situations are comparable. In fact I find this accusation patently ridiculous. I didn't even realise Beck had a wagon on him until rereading and I found out that he had a total of 4 votes on him on page 5, barely after we had gotten out of the random voting stage. I hadn't even gotten a town read on Beck at that stage which makes your accusation even more invalid.

- He shows extreme cognitive dissonance by stating at the same time that "I must know funky is town" (he says this a few times, for example post 699) and also that "funky is probably scum". I point that out here:

I will respond later tonight, but I will quickly point out this;

I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

What has funky been doing exactly? yeah sitting back and sniping (bussing) so, how did you get this magical funky is town read? because his wagon was going too well? but wait a second, wasnt funky doing exactly what you think the scum are? so the votes should be vindicated from your standpoint surely?

No, basically. Who's he bussing btw? I thought you said I knew funky was town?

@ everyone else: does anyone else see how slandaars case on me has changed from "he knows funky is town", to "not using same logic for beck's wagon", to "there's no way he could assume funky is town", to "he's justifying his sky read". Plus he is saying that I "know that funky is town" while at the same time is claiming funky is actually scum...
Guy's scum. Vote him.

- There are other minor points as well, such as this lovely little flip-flop:

can someone lay out the case on shattered? he hasnt contributed much and is pretty delusional but I have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such

Hmm. slandaar making sense. Credit where it is due.

Shattered is delusional and isnt a bad lynch

Wait, what? You just said you "have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such". I was actually starting to feel you might be town, but that feeling has died.

[ThAdmiral]

Vijay

- First caught my eye with a terrible SV vote:

Sorgster, you seem to keep jumping on every available wagon. However, I have to agree that SV is an idiot. For fucks sake, you can't get it right this early. If you do, its a guess. You are bluffing.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

YES, I'VE GOT SCUM. I'M JUST THAT GOOD!
Stop being cocky as fuck. Please.

This seems like you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You are saying it is scummy for someone else to jump on a wagon, then you jump on it yourself. Furthermore it doesn't seem like you are voting SV because you think he is scum, but because he is cocky?

- He responds genuinely to what I believe was a joke by Slandaar that lynching SV would be good regardless of his alignment:

Actually, I agree with Slandaar's assessment of the SV situation. If he is scum, which I think he is, then we can all celebrate, if not, we have brilliant town reads that we can all rely on.

- He only starts producing proper content, and even posts a list of reads in 1120, after he starts getting heat in the game for the first time. My collected thoughts about it are in this post:

Unvote, Vote Soda

Vijay provided reads, he's trying and looks sorta town for it.

I think you mean: "Vijay provided reads, he's trying to look sorta town for it".

You were right the first time. vijay's defenses are all sounding like "I'm scum, but you have no way of knowing that."

Trying to play the game if and only if your neck is on the line is the definition of scummy. Unless you make pretty genuine "read my will after I die" cases.

I like this.

- Other small things such as the one pointed out by Revenus (note post 1490 was by pine detailing why Revenus scumslipped):

Hmm I don't know, 1490 made sense to me.

However anybody notice ScreamingHawk? He jumped onto another bandwagon,(mine this time), and sheeped somebody else.

VOTE: ScreamingHawk

The case on me is bad /yawn.

And vijay, that was terrible.


You can't go

"hey I agree that Rev is scum but here's a vote on SCREAMINGHAWK, look at me avoid suspicion if rev flips town"

[ThAdmiral]

I wasn't sold on Slandaar as scum, but the cognitive dissonance is pretty compelling.

Iknowrite?

[ThAdmiral]

1651 is awesome, more votes on sal

Thanks dude.

[ThAdmiral]

SODA LYNCH IS A FUCKING COP OUT LYNCH. PLS PUT VOTES BACK ON SLANDAAR OR VIJAY. THESE ARE ACCEPTABLE LYNCHES, SODA IS NOT!

Does this mean you think he's town?

I don't have a strong read on him, but he looks ok from his iso. He hasn't posted much, that's his only crime. Therefore not a good lynch option.

Can you explain why you have a strong scum read on him?

@vijay: Could you please respond to this post?

Both #1651 and #1654 are nice cases. But, I don't think they are today's lynches.

Why not?

I have to hand it to ThAd on this one, it's looking pretty bad for Slandaar.

Thank you. Bad enough to vote slandaar?

[ThAdmiral]

Everyone, in your next post, please list anyone you would be comfortable lynching. Anyone who gets more than five votes, we'll continue discussing as a potential lynchees. Anyone with less, we table discussion on them until Day Two as non-viable lynches (and therefore wastes of our time).

Slandaar and vijay are the only one's I would be really happy with. Sky I'm not so sure about any more and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You know what, throw hiraki on there as well.

Stunningly bad, OMGUS-y post. Stop it. You guys are Town vs. prob-Town.

You've gotta stop taking things personally, Slandaar.

If Thad EVER flips scum kill Pine without hesitation. I mean it.

= Pine is safe if I die.

@ mod: any chance of an extension. There's still a lot of activity and we're just getting round to selection of lynch target now. I think even just a few more days would help.

[ThAdmiral]

So you're not ok with an sv lynch again?

[ThAdmiral]

Moar slandaar votes.

That is all.

[ThAdmiral]

Is it me?

[ThAdmiral]

He missed quite a few major wagons, obvoiusly. But whatever will make him look worse, right vijay? I still think you're a better option.

@ zellink: disagree about two vig shots since this is extremely unlikely. Even if we had two vigs. Although I see where you are coming from as both people killed were hardly paragons of town... But you're right, speculating is probably a waste of time at this juncture.

In your own words why screaming hawk over anyone else?

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry ThAd I must have missed some stuff. Which wagons did he miss again?

Slandaar for one.

[ThAdmiral]

I want to hear more from toxic. Also, TheAD and Slaandaar were going against each other a lot day 1. Do you guys think that's town on town or scum on town?

What do

you

think?

[ThAdmiral]

If a vig claimed either kill I would believe them tbh. Both acceptable shots.

[ThAdmiral]

Let me put it this way: hiraki was posting worse than funkybike and he turned out to be town. Now I know this isn't infallible logic, but it goes to show that just because someone isn't contributing much and isn't making much sense.... well basically that isn't actually a scum-tell.

[ThAdmiral]

Surprisingly, there aren't that many posts that need catching up on.

Why has the focus turned back to funkybike? It seems like these lurkers go in and out of style.

I actually agree with this. Caught up yet?

Today is so different to yesterday in terms of activity.
I'm going to go reread pops. I want him to be town, but a few people I have townreads on don't like him so he probably deserves a second look.

[ThAdmiral]

Soooo, haven't posted in a while.

Been sorta thrown since slandaar, hiraki and mastin all turned up town.

Was planning to do an iso of pops, have started it, haven't really come to a conclusion about that yet.

Might as well post a townlist:

pine
beck
revenus
zdenek
zellink
iamausername
bvoigt

And I'd be pretty much happy to lynch anyone not on that list right now.

[ThAdmiral]

Scum are highly unlikely to claim VT this early. Velz's lynch is off.

Vote Pops

It could be a ploy but I don't believe that. Pops is not a bad vote. His iso is a mixed bag; he makes sense a lot of the time but scum can do that. In fact he's often guilty of iioa. There's more (Inc. His vote history, and a few of his more recent posts) but I'm on my phone now and can't post at length.

Vote: pops

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry for the lack of posting. Irl stuff, mainly.

i'm trying to incentivise myself to actually put effort into this game by generating a situation where i might be in danger of a lynching if i don't

is it working

...but I also might subconciously be doing this. The problem is iama there's too many trolls in this game that we're just getting ignored!

In other news I'm feeling better about pops again. I agree that the rev wagon is a fail wagon. But the problem is - who do we lynch? For some reason I'm completely incapable of independent thought today. I'm literally at the point where I'd be happy to choose a random lurker (although not me or iama) and just lynch them. Anyone else?

guys....?

[ThAdmiral]

He's threatened to quit a bunch of times now and hasn't done it.

@ sorgster: I'm not going to write revenus' defense. That's a weird thing to ask.

[ThAdmiral]

Also sorgster. Goodness gracious, that guy. The only person trying to call my off that is Pine who I've now decided is one of <scum, imbecile> so that's not a bad noose to tie. Even for an inexperienced player he seems really off the mark on everything, and is always "down to lynch".

Yeah, sorgster is making himself more appealing as a lynch as time goes on. I'd be "down to lynch" him.

{vijay2vasandani, Velzanath, sorgster, Shattered Viewpoint, funkybike1, iamausername}

There's 2 or 3 scum in this part of the Rev wagon.

well numbers 3-5 on the wagon were...
never mind.

He's threatened to quit a bunch of times now and hasn't done it.

@ sorgster: I'm not going to write revenus' defense. That's a weird thing to ask.

May be weird but you're the one trying to deflect attention of him onto lurkers.

Yeah, saying I think a person is town and that I don't want him to be lynched sure is scummy of me.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm still voting pops?

unvote

vote: sorgster

[ThAdmiral]

I've decided I'm willing to settle for a theamateur lynch if needs be.

[ThAdmiral]

I've decided I'm willing to settle for a theamateur lynch if needs be.

*shrug*

I'm cool with a sorg lynch, too. His posts get worse and worse and I have very little tolerance left.

We are in accord.

[ThAdmiral]

@ sorgster: I haven't always agreed with revenus, but I think his play has often seemed like frustrated town to me. I mentioned this in 456 (but it's buried in the middle so you may have overlooked it).

[ThAdmiral]

I'm thinking theam or rev. I'm fairly convinced that at least one has to be scum.

Yet you're voting funky...
Classic vijay.

[ThAdmiral]

Really? O.o

Pretty sure I'm voting Rev. I remember, you even put it down when you made that joke about who is number 3, 4 and 5 on the wagon.

Oh yeah. Nvm then, was basing it off the last official vc.

I don't see anything about you saying rev is town here thAd

I totally agree that it would be nice if Beck would shut the fuck up, but he's not scum.

You don't think Revenus was displaying any types of emotions?

I think the emotion he's displaying is rubbing his hands with glee as he watches the lunatic distracting everybody's attention by shitting himself all over the thread. If that counts as an emotion.

Take out the first and last sentence and I could maybe see that post coming from frustrated town, but as is, no.

I see where you are coming from but a lot of his other posts scream frustrated town to me. I honestly don't see scum playing it up to that extent. Your thoughts?

Look again.

[ThAdmiral]

I just find 3 v 3 more likely. At 4 v 4, it starts to favor anti-Town a bit, and at 5 v 5 it's just straight up unfair. 2 v 2 is strongly Town-sided, so 3 v 3 is a pretty good number. Yeah, it tries to outguess the mod a bit, but I tend to do that.

What about 4 v 2? Just sayin' bro.

[ThAdmiral]

That catch is good enough for me.

vote: velz

[ThAdmiral]

If there is any will to support a lurker purge, it will have my support.

*thumbs up*

[ThAdmiral]

@ dgb: if you actually have evidence pine is scum reveal it instead of just hinting at it. You said "mod confirmed scum" - back this up.

anyway, first order of business is figuring out why the pops wagon stalled around p93 (I think it was me zde and thad then?).

As far as I can recall it didn't pick up any steam. Then the big revenus wagon happened and that took centre stage. I'll admit I jumped off because I felt pops was making sense and basically echoing a lot of things I was thinking.

I say we leave Pine alone for today. If he isn't the vig, the vig will vig him. If he's the SK, that will come out.

If he is telling the truth, theam is a great target for lynch.

Well said.

I would be happy with a sorgster or theam lynch today. I didn't like theam's hammer of velz which meant we didn't get to talk about velz's last few posts which I think indicated he was indeed town. Plus I don't believe his claim.

vote: theam

[ThAdmiral]

who was it that was talking about pops-thad links D2? I recall multiple people talking about this, but it seems to have been forgotten.

There were thad-rev links. I can't remember any thad-pops links though.

[ThAdmiral]

If pine is scum and not a sk, zelink is his buddy.

This is terrible.

Nobody trusts you so nobody is listening to you

I trust and am listening to him.

For the record, I buy Pine's claim over theam.

Theam's tone is smug, while Pine is flipping out.

yes.

[ThAdmiral]

btw, why does flipping out under pressure necessarily make one town instead of scum?

Its a more normal reaction.

[ThAdmiral]

I'd rather lynch theamateur still.

[ThAdmiral]

One or both could be replaced in the other game. I don't see how it affects this game.
In any case sv didn't name any game. He could be talking about another game dgb is/was in.

[ThAdmiral]

Theamateur: dgb admitted it was a gambit. Fail harder.

[ThAdmiral]

Can I just say for the record that funkybike was a bad kill. Pine has proven he can make up his own kill flavour though.

Cop results?

[ThAdmiral]

Gonna assume you were jked then. Also explains the lack of a third kill

@ pine: rev is cop confirmed innocent.