California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Carrie nods at Mr. Green
Listen you two, this has gone on long enough. Quite simply I'm sick of indulging a chick who's always played second fiddle to her psychotic brothers, and a has-been anachronism who's still far too close to the state of nature for his own good.
Now, as you two are providing contradictory information, I want to know if you think it's because old man Grey's been playing games with you or if you think the other is just evil.
Lockey, I'd appreciate it if you'd practice some plain language philosophy for once and just lay out exactly what your reasoning for letting Valentine drive is. You don't strike me as that altruistic.
Likewise Valentine. I don't like the asymmetry of one of you not wanting to drive and the other happily going along with it.
Give us the tools we need to make a decision. I know you like the sounds of your own voices but we've had enough aphorisms for a whole movie.
I'm not questioning your expertise in this area, but how do you know no-one will be killed?
You think he doesn't have our interests at heart?
Julie, please slow down, we do not want to rush this decision.
And where's that latte I ordered aeons ago? Scratch that, make it a double ristretto. I don't do carbs after noon.
Quotes removed. Read the rules. - Mod-
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Talilan Goon
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Grrr... somebody in wardrobe fix up my costume please
Ahem.
Carrie looks pointedly at Valentine...You are an advocate with special information the rest of us do not have. Yet all you've talked about is Locke and what may be his motives. If Locke were yet to speak, what would have been your recommendation for us, and why?-
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Talilan Goon
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follows John Locke onto the bus to have a quiet word
The decision, Mr Locke, is whether to have you drive knowing that either you are lying now or you will defect to the enemy, then dispose of you at the next opportunity.
Or do we let the unknown quantity drive, the one whoknowsbut has not told us what will happen if she drives. The one who may have had the same offer as you, and may defect, but we will not know of it.
You act the martyr but wouldn't the truly noble action be to drive, knowing that wewillhave to kill you?
WWWSD? What would Will Smith do?-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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We have not yet reached consensus.
And don't forget this scene needs to fill up about 14 minutes and we haven't yet reached 4.
Furthermore each of my split personalities (don't ask) was tempted vaguely by the idea of calling the Lockester out on what he's said- letting him drive then letting him get mobbed by his legions of fans when we get off-set. That way we guarantee to get rid of an evil presence, whether he started as evil or just got corrupted by driving a contraption which never existed in his own time.
Why do people think just because both Locke and Valentine have been given information which leads to the same conclusion this is the right one? Is it as simple as that?
We (my personalities) were also wondering if we should take a spot-poll of passers-by off-set as to whether they think Locke is lying or telling the truth. Neither of us are familiar with Locke's previous roles so we're not sure whether we should be impressed by his performance at this stage. The cameraman could perhaps send us a thumbs up or down if people think his acting is or is not up to its usual standard.-
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Talilan Goon
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Whilst discussing the problem back and forth in my head I had a pretty firm recollection that there is one good choice for the innocents, and one bad choice. This, as well as the vision i too saw (you're not crazy StarKiss...or maybe we both are) makes me feel better about supporting Locke to be the driver.-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Huey I take it that is the astral aspect of your personality rather than the one infatuated with kissing all he comes across?
I don't see what you mean by one person persuading another to follow them. As far as I'm aware both of our guides have agreed on the correct course of action based on information they received independently of one another.
And what makes you so sure you will eventually come to trust Locke, even if it takes multiple scenes?-
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Talilan Goon
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Hello. We wish to relay three things to you dearest dears.
DEATH has a fondness for pork and is on the lookout for anyone acting excessively hammy.
Those who shall not be named have no further information about what door we should choose, it is up to us. Should they gain any further insight, or simply disagree with our decision, I'm sure they will find a way of communicating with us.
My suggestions about cults came when I was very much under the influence of wine; there was just so much of it in front of me I couldn't stop drinking. I suggest you disregard them.
I'm also concerned Locke is punching above his weight, interfering in the production process when not necessary.-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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I only had knowledge of what our host told us in my drunken state. The sober me is not privy to my drunken persona's information, it's almost like we're two different people. The other side of me will take the information they were given by the host with them to the grave, when their face turns blue from the noose.
Based on my correspondence with the script-writer; whenever someone tasked with guiding us needs assistance from a stuntman mid-scene, after the wardrobe change they are blind to the knowledge given to them before the stunt scene.
And I do not like your firing without even a prompting. Ms. Newmar has not once led us astray- she directed the first scene without a hitch. Cycling through directors unnecessarily increases the chance we will get one who has their own interests; rather than those of the studio, at heart.-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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(whispers to other actors)
In scene 1 we had to take our time over our lines and make sure we gave the offstage crew plenty of time to get organised. I don't believe it will take them nearly as long this time. We're all positive the actor who played Carrie before had some kind of bad connections and wanted us to choose the wrong door. But she knew we suspect her so she would have done her best to give no hint at which is the correct door to choose. It is hard to know what to make of her vote, but I suggest that we stop waiting for information that aint coming and start trying to make a decision.(/whisper)-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Emphatically Yes and Yes Mr Odbody! What do you think? Do you think that old Carrie, as the sole advocate in this scene, conveyed all her information appropriately?
Kobe, dollface, you shouldn't hit on movie stars wearing that cuddly little teddy bear suit. Cute as it is, but if I'm giving backrubs I wanna be feeling some LA Laker muscles... know what I'm saying?-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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What was the purpose of the above monologue?
Clarence: you realise you can just sent a letter to our host to ask if someone gets the information when they stuntman an advocate, as I said previously. We did so before coming in, and were told "no", so you will be told the same thing.
I'm putting my finger of suspicion on anyone beating around the bush and pretending there is some doubt as to whether the previous me is evil, for example Godwin and possibly Clarence also. That is not at issue. The issue is which glass they placed the poison in.
And I think we forgot this also but it's actually not at issue whether Carrie knew what door is correct irrespective of what information they received as an advocate. She did know which is the correct door, as she does for every scene, not by virtue of being the advocate but by virtue of being evil. Evil people assigned the good and bad doors to begin with.
FYI I believe we made up our mind awhile ago but we want to hear what others have to say first. Kelly, Kobe, John and Julie, we'd like you to take a stand please.-
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Talilan Goon
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Mr Odbody, you must have missed my question. It was "Do you think that old Carrie, as the sole advocate in this scene, conveyed all her information appropriately? "
I now have another question for you. Why would you assume that a stunt-switcher would get the same information as the advocate? It would mean 2 actors with the same information, one on-stage and one off-stage, which would defeat the purpose of having a single advocate. I suspect it may be an underhanded way to try and sow suspicion of the new Carrie.
Those who are not convinced should ask the Mr Grey about whether an advocate's information is given to someone who stunt switches with them. He gave us a clear answer.
Dweezil, when we switched onstage we brought with us all the information that the off-stagers had for us. If they have anything further they will no doubt send a sign.
~tal-
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Talilan
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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I had not realised how close we were to deadline (just over 2 and a half days). Here is my rationale:
I think the right course of action is staying. I think they originally wanted to stick with "stay" being the right option as we're more likely to switch off-hand. But then they tried to double bluff us by saying door 1 is the right option. So I'd say stay.
Which means our vote will be unchanged.
Would very much like to hear from Kobe, John, Julie and John as to what to do.-
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Talilan Goon
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And that decision's from my notes from a while ago, and it's very interesting to see what other people chose.
Both Dweezil and Lance, those of the town, thought the same thing.
Both Clarence and Glen, those more evilly inclined, the opposite.
It's possible to interpret this both ways- as scum trying to get in the good books by pushing towards a decision they know is correct, or simply in trying to mislead us. After all, even if their decision was correct, it would prompt questions as to how they knew what the correct course of action was. I'm also aware they may be attempting to bait us into going the wrong way, fully aware that we won't trust them. Nevertheless I find it difficult to find fault with my original rationale. I think the previous Carrie wanted to start by going with something which would prevent the dominant strategy from working i.e. choosing the correct door to begin with. But then she added WIFOM by saying we should stay. I think she thought we would think she was bluffing, and hence be more likely to change to the other door.
She was probably thinking "go with the door which means you need to play counter-intuitively to win, and then motivate people further not to choose the counter-intuitive option by choosing it yourself".-
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Talilan Goon
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I strongly feel Clarence is overacting the wholeI don't know if the old Carrie was scum or not thing!in an attempt to act uncertain in accordance with how she thinks a town-inclined person would. However she hasn't realised it's blatantly obvious the old Carrie was evil since the previous scene.
Notions based on whether the original Carrie was trustworthy wouldn't even be considered by a reasonable town-inclined person. Yer that's why she stole my part in the last scene to avoid being lynched, before getting trusted with the knowledge determined by the evil players, before choosing her door instantly with no discussion, clearly in order to do so before she could be replaced. Yer Clarence, it's really "unclear" whether or not she's evil, isn't it.
Plus you haven't given any reasons to reinforce your choice of door 2, beyond going with the ridiculous "I suspect you therefore I'll go with the opposite door" argument. You've made no attempt to address my clearly stated rationale for why we should choose door 1, and whether it's wrong.-
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Talilan Goon
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I am utterly at a loss as to how you think you can plausibly claim there is any chance the old Carrie is not evil.
My argument for door 1 was not "I suspect you therefore I'll go with the opposite door", it was entirely independent of that. It's the fact I think the scum i.e. Carrie (having spoken to yourself, Glen and Angel) would have chosen the right door to begin with, under the knowledge it's optimal play to switch and if we pursue a proper mixed strategy in light of knowing she knows which is the right one, we will go with the switch 2/3rds of the time anyway.
Furthermore, she decided to bluff us by choosing this door herself, making us even less likely to go with the "stay" option because she chose it herself. This is a very clearly laid out rationale. It is independent of the fact you are obv-evil.
I then reviewed my rationale in light of my rather strong suspicion you and Glen are both evil; yet chose the opposite option. I conclude I cannot conclude enough from this to motivate a change to the chances of my original rationale.
You are just using a very transparently scummy excuse of 'ooh I don't know if Carrie was scummy' to pursue obviously suboptimal reasoning.
Just for you though, CAN ONE OF THE STAGEHANDS GET ME A DONUT? AND PERHAPS WE COULD HAVE WORD IF MS. BLUE HAS TURNED BLUE YET? IF NOT WHY NOT? WAS SHE EVIL?-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan
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Talilan Goon
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Unconcerned by the issues currently concerning the others, Carrie dozes blissfully in that state that is halfway between sleep and wake... a familiar presence slips into her mind...Checking in from beautiful Rio de Janeiro and I got a prod. I have nothing to contribute to the game at this point, just saying "ola".
~ Tals-
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Talilan Goon
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I'm pretty sure Mr. Grey would have fragged me on the spot if he thought I actually posted on-stage deliberately (which makes it not a very intelligent gambit as scum). Apart from that I wouldn't break the rules like that anyway. But this new attempt to twist my accidental post on-stage as "clearly scummy" is quite commendable.-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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hit me with your proddin' stick
Happy Birthday Glork
Glen, my list wasn't of people I found suspicious but just an order which would be interesting to me. There was a mix of people I find scummy, people I find neutral and people I find pro-town on it.
I made my decision based on some admittedly fairly single-minded logic a while ago, and while I haven't been reading closely nothing has jumped out that would change that decision.-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Firstly, I think it's silly to characterise that sort of post as "obnoxious" in the context of a mafia game.
Secondly, in terms of throwaway posts (by the way, I am by no means the only person making them, see Pooky), my post did actually have a substantial purpose. Basically it was telling elvis that mod-WIFOM wasn't actually relevant, seeing as the allocation of good/bad outcomes was not made by the mod but rather by the scum. I am actually a little bit incredulous that she would not know this after the time she's spent in the game and what she's undoubtedly discussed with you. Hence the sarcasm.
About not wanting to play with me again- I'm sorry if you feel that way. I'm also sad that you've given me substantial reason to think you are scum, but no amount of this sort of rhetoric should change that, for obvious reasons.-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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I will explain my most recent reasoning process as well as my original choice.
Basically, I was assuming Gaspy is scum. At the beginning of the scene, in post 579, he said "don't push the button", which was why I still mistakenly believed that was his choice even though he apparently amended it later.
Last scene he continually insisted on the correct choice of action even when everyone was voting against it.
This scene I was thinking, he will try to turn the tables on us. He expects I and perhaps others will vote with him, expecting him to be double-bluffing as scum as he was last scene. Instead, this time, he chooses the wrong option (after all, if he's town, he shouldn't be getting it right all the time anyway).
Now I realised, he's voting for pushing the button and Thoky's voting for not pushing the button.
Thokky's more likely to be scum they are grooming for the end-game than Gaspy. Thus to not put all their eggs in one basket, and for the desired social engineering, they will have Gaspy try to coerce the town the wrong way- after all, his days are numbered and he's not going to make it to end-game and certainly won't be trusted if he does anyway. Thokster, however, is vying for the end-game, and can try to get some bonus points- "I TOLD YOU NOT TO PUSH THE BUTTON" after his friend Gaspy leads everyone up the garden path to pushing the button.-
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Talilan Goon
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Okay firstly I didn't say our friend the Hard-Thokker was scum for advocating the correct choice. In fact I worked backwards from the assumption he was scum.
Secondly I would hardly characterise "I don't like Tabris n Odbody therefore I'll vote against them" as ample, logical reasoning. I also think distrusting Pooky's a bit spurious as Talitha tells me he always plays like this and I believe Thok choi should know this.
Do you stand by your above post?-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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DGB: I believe the reason for the condorcet with two options is that it reduces the chance of there being an actual "tie" (which causes the worst outcome automatically) because if both choices receive the same primary number of votes it's more likely one will have fewer secondary choices, assuming not everyone has voted with a full condorcet. It's rather pedantic, especially as push the button looks like a clear winner, but as far as I'm aware that's the reasoning.
Vote: Don't push the button, Push the button-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Firstly this is a crappy choice for town to try and figure out. First we have to decide who we think are scum (and we could easily be wrong), THEN we have to figure out whether those (possible) scum are voting for the choice they want to win, or the choice that is best for town (and we could very easily be wrong about this too). The chances of making a wrong assumption are enormous, and it's frustrating.
On the plus side though, we do at least have a chance of stumbling into the right choice by good luck rather than by correct reasoning. So each townie should make the choice that feels right to them and hope for the best.
I'm most comfortable with the DON'T PUSH choice, that we're currently voting for. My reasons are pretty weak but here you go:
1. I kinda like the company on the vote
2. I like that with most people now voting it's the least popular (I'd expect the choice that the scums want to have a bit of extra support)
3. If I were scum I'd have made PUSH BUTTON the bad choice, believing that most people won't be able to resist pushing a big ol' button.
~Tals-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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Hello all
I bring news from offstage.
1. Pooky has been modkilled for not posting enough. (I don't think there was a replacement available). No flip yet.
2. Gaspar has just been lynched. Earlier in the day he strongly hinted at being the AP, and posted what he called "breadcrumbs" that pointed to him being the AP. But the majority of us didn't believe it and after a while he said that of course he's not the AP, he was just trying to draw a night kill and protect the real one. Anyway Gaspar lynched and I'm not sure why it took so long but they were very good at delaying it.
3. CKD wants you to know urgently that he did NOT put Mighty Orbits in the list to go onstage. He wants you to weigh this up when deciding whether to follow MO's advice.
My interpretation is that I believe CKD, and I guess that MO is onstage because scum made him advocate. Whether that gives any indication of MO's alignment I am unsure.
~Talitha-
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Talilan Goon
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Talilan Goon
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I think that's the best thing that can be done. Even if MO is scum, I don't think he would want to reveal himself at this stage. So the info he gave is probably true.We more or less came to the conclusion that the best move is to trust orbots on penalty of lynch if he ends up lying about his information.
At least, that's the sense I get from the condercet voting.
Do you have an opinion on our choice?
From memory I don't think anyone offstage had any problem with your tequila choice, apart from possibly CKD who didn't trust the source of the information because "he's not supposed to be there".
~T-
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Talilan Goon
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