The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Both halves of that argument are pretty horrible.DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:@ Unicorn Brethren
Two things:
1) Your excuse is fail. There is no way we are going to allow your many heads to change what is a scumtell. If you contradict yourself, you are scummy.
2) You essentially contradicted yourself by saying we are scummy for not actually voting you and by saying that "our OMGUS was showing". If we're not voting you, it's not OMGUS.
With that said,unvote vote: Unicorn Brethren
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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@DaSpotthatkillsu
FTR I agree with yos on your reasoning being bullshit.
Hydras contradict themselves all the time. It is many heads with each head having their own opinions. you are BOUND to have a difference in opinion.
as for your second point I have no idea what the hell you were even trying to say.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Well, my partner kind of already covered it, but:DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:@ Greymarble and YosFlavouredCayke
If you disagree, say why. Our case on Unicorn Brethren is better than any other case right now, because it actually has reasoning instead of "oh look guys, they're signing their posts let's lynch them" or "^ scum".
Changing your mind, being "inconsistent", is not a scumtell at all. And of course this is even more true when there are different people in a hydra posting; of course different people in a hydra are going to have different opinions, and there's no reason to not share that in thread. This isn't a 13 player game, we've actually got more then 26 minds working on this game, there's no reason not to take advantage of that fact.
And your other argument was even worse. The "If we're not voting you it's not OMGUS" thing is silly; many people, most people I'd say, use OMGUS these days to refer to any "I'm attacking you because I don't like that you're attacking me" type stuff. So you're disagreeing with him on how he's using a mafia term, and...that makes him scum...because?
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Here I logged on intenting to sheep on you onto the gummywagon, Ether, mostly because your posting last page was awesome. Now I have to actually think for myself? Bah.
Final Destination wrote:I do approve of the Dana wagon, and was not aware we were getting into serious mode. FES makes the strongest case for Dana, IMO ("^scum")
Last post AGM made in the hydra QT was asking me if I cared about the hydra that didn't reveal itself, so we still haven't had a chance to discuss reads or place a real vote down.
The whole "was not aware we were getting into serious mode" bit is mildly scummy. Also, the whole post does feel oddly overcautious, which, in my limited experence with him, is not a trait I normally associate with Fate.
Sure, let's ride this wagon and see what happens.Vote:Final Destination
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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1. Final Destination's vauge support for the Dana wagon, which they were unwilling to back up with a vote, seemed scummy. Their "I didn't know the game was serious yet" defense was also somewhat scummy.
2. The OMGUS "WELL FINE WE'LL POST IN ALL CAPS VOTE UNICORN" response by Almaster was worse. The meta argument may or may not be strong, but it was certanly a good enough reason for a early day 1 vote.
3. The OMGUS vote by Fate on Ether/Patrick here is even worse then that. Ether is clearly obvtown here, that should be obvious to anyone reading the thread.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Aggressive early day 1 voting isn't scummy; it's usually a pro-town tell, if anything. Looks to me like Fritz + Co is currently dropping dynamite into the pond and hoping scum float to the surface, and that's fine with me.DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:
Look at this. Without any more post from us, without any discussion by others on our actions, without any real explanation, they suddenly jump off their big wagon and start voting for us again. It's almost like they think it's funny. And then they tell us to make the day short, when some people have barely posted. How is this not scummier than anything this account has done?Unicorn Brethren wrote:We don't like the Fate/AGM wagon any more. Plus, they shouldn't be lynched D1.
We are significantlymoresure that DaSpotthatkillsu are scum anyway. Call it a... supermagical scum vibe; they are tingling our Rainbow-sense in a way that not a lot of people do. Reckamonic makes it tingle too. But of course, we are not sure if that is the same way or because of something entirely different and rainbow related. We will keep you informed. However, that is not the direction for today either.
Unvote: Re-Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu
Day 1 can still be short. Make it so.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Ok, now, that's absurd.Greymarble wrote: Gummy bear looks like an easy mislynch, and that was such a nice little way of saying "oh, I could see hopping to that wagon if it gains momentum, but I just don't trust it..."
Ether's reasoning for suspecting Gummy made perfect sense, and was about as strong as you'd expect for page 5 of day 1. The fact that she was willing to wagon hop to someone else scummy in order to get pressure going is a good sign, not a bad one. Basically as soon as the game started, she ran right out onto the high wire without a net, just to get reactions and to get the game moving. And what's more, she's clearly having fun doing it; if Ether's enjoying herself in a game, you can bet money that she's town.
Are you reading Ether's posts this game? Half the reason I was assuming Fate was scum because I didn't think there's any way that anyone pro-town could read Ether's posts and not see that they all screamed town.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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How was froggy being "beligernt" or "insulting"? He responded rationally and logically to the (fairly weak) case against him. You need to explain this to me, untrod, because I don't get what you're trying to say.
I honestly don't understand your vote for him at all. You don't agree with his meta read on Fate, so that makes him scum? I can understand you not being convinced by it, but it seemed rational and reasoanble, especally as a part of a day 1 case. And now you're voting him for being "insulting"? Who did he insult? DaSpot, for misunderstanding an early day 1 wagon vote as being a "tunnel"? I don't get your point here, UT.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Meh. In any given mafia game on this site, something like 75% of the people in the game will act in a condescending way to someone else at some point. The other 25% are lurkers.Untrod Stranger wrote:Ok, Yos, I will concede your point in which the wrong words were used. A better word would be condescending.
(shrug) I don't agree with your initial points, but I didn't have any specific reason to jump in and defend Froggy on them at that time. Sometimes, it's better to let someone defend themselves, you get more information that way. I only questioned you about your later post since it seemed to be just flat out factually inaccurate.Despite that, youre ignoring the initial points that initally aroused suspicion on FOS in the first place aswell as the opinion thats others have since placed. Was that deliberate in your part, Yos?
However, since you ask, I'll be glad to give you my thoughts on your initial attack on froggy.
Your first point seems to be that Frog is bandwagoning a lot. On day 1, I don't see that as a scumtell at all, especially since I more or less agree with his votes. A lot of people have the mafia-theory idea that it's good and pro-town to bandwagon pretty much at will on day 1, to get the game moving, to get information flowing, to get reactions. I don't see that as scummy at all, at least not in a vaccum.Untrod Stranger wrote:Youre all wrong. Frogito is your scum.
Look at their posts. All that Frogito has done is wait for bandwagons to grow just big enough to hop on unceremoniously. Has no strong opinions, but yet jumps on the biggest wagons at the time. The posts are clearly used to state that they are around, but not really contributing much other than a walking meatvote.
And the cincher is that insencere warning about the L-1. That line sounded like a surreptious invitation for someone to hammer. Notice he wasnt afraid of the quickhammer, otherwise he wouldnt have voted. So then why put up a warning?
Vote:Frogito Ergo Scum
Your second point, that he "has no strong opinions", doesn't seem to be correct. He clearly disagreed with Ether's gummy vote, for example.
Your third point, about the lynch -1 warning, is also kind of iffy. I generally think it's a good idea to make it clear when someone is at lynch -1, to prevent anyone from hammering accidentally. Even if you think the person in question should be hammered, the town gets more information from making sure that it's clearly established beforehand that the person who drops the hammer knew he was doing it.
All in all, I think your case on Froggy is weak and unconvincing.
Huh? I explained why I'm suspicious of Final D, and all those reasons still apply. I think he's committed several scum tells, especially in the way both halves of the hydra reacted to pressure, and at the moment he's the person I'd most like to see lynched today. I'm not sure what that has to do with the froggy votes, especially since I was voting for Final D long before anyone voted for froggy.We also notice that you also happen to be other group fixated on this Final D bandwagon and still has a vote there. Is that on purpose? Is this some kind of defense for the FOS? Doesnt this look a tad suspicious on your part? You fail to mention exactly why you wouldnt vote for FOS, why is that?
What the heck kind of question is that? If you want me to vote for froggy, you need to convince me froggy is more likely to be scum then anyone else. Trying to scare me into voting him with vague threats about spurious links to someone who doesn't look especially likely to be scum to me right now isn't going to change my opinion of him at all.Why put yourself out there with such an obvious link, Yos? Would this not look bad on you when FOS flips scum?
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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(shrug)Final Destination wrote:I've been WAITING eagerly for what Yos would say after AGM finally got together and produced content:
Nothing. Not a single comment on our views of the game, our elaboration of our reads (and if Ether is that easily read as town, well I'll be having fun at Goofbash for one), and basically the extreme info dump on this thread we produced.
I think your suspicion of DaSpotthatkillsu is reasonable; I don't have a good vibe on him, mostly because I have disagreed with pretty much everything he's said and done so far this game. I don't find your case on Froggy to be convincing, but I figured it's be more useful to see what his response to it was then to jump in and defend him. Your unvote on Ether makes sense no matter what your alignment is, since you're obviously not going to get her lynched today. I'm glad you're posting and are active, but nothing you've said yet cancels out your earlier scumtells.
If you have anything specific you want me to respond to, I'll be glad to do so.
(And, by the way: Yes, Ether is sometimes quite easy to read, especially face to face. The funniest example was back at one of the BeachBash meets, when I said "Ether, are you scum?" and she hesitated, and then said "...no?" Her scum play has improved somewhat since then, but when she's obvtown, she's obvtown.)
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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My vote is on you because I agree with my partner and his read on you, i'm pretty sure he covered it too soooooo........Final Destination in 221 wrote:first Cayke on FES: saying his jump was lazy but not scummy, offering NO INSIGHT why her vote was still on me,
What more do you want from me?
@US 229: *facepalm.* Could you link me to what you're reading? Cuz i'm pretty sure its not in this thread.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Pardon me, UT, but, uh, was any of that post in response to anything I just said? Are you responding to some post you read in a parellel universe?
When did I say that Froggy had "fabolous reasoning" or "batman like deductions"? When did I say "we want to lynch final D and so does he, so he must be town"? What the hell are you talking about?
And this is especially bizarre:
You go out of your way to ask me about what I think about your case on froggy, and then FOS me for responding? Your case against him was weak. Joining bandwagons on day 1 with minimal reasoning is not a scum tell, pointing out when someone is at lynch -1 is not a scumtell, and everything else you said was just bluster and BS. I was willing to let you run with it and see what happened, since this is day 1 and all, but if you ask me what I think about it, I'm going to answer you. And now you're FOSing me for honestly answering your question?Untrod Stranger wrote: Since when did Froggy hire Yos to be his Johnny Cochran anyways?
Do you honestly think you can just railroad, threaten, and badger me, of all people, into joining a bad wagon for crap reasons?
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Ok. I realized I didn't actually have a read on half the people in the game, so I went through and ISO's everyone I didn't have a solid read on (which was like 6 people, mostly because there are so many damn lurkers in this game). So, here's my analysis of everyone in the game at the moment. (Standard disclaimer, this is based on just the first 10 pages of day 1, expect reads and opinions to change wildly in the future based on new information, hunches, wild mood swings, and whatever I eat for breakfast, ect ect.)
Frogito Ergo Sum-Leaning town. Bandwagony tendencies are what I’d expect from CES. Most of the posts so far feel more like CES then like Shanba, based on my rough meta of the two of them; if I’m right about that, I’d like to hear some more from Shanba.
Pathetric-100% superdupertriplelooper obvtown
Gummybear-Eh. Less scummy when read in ISO then I was thinking off the top of my head. Thing with Ether is probably just a theory disagreement, and is consistant with earlier comments about UB and such. Null. I really do want to hear a read from them, though; they’ve said nothing about who they find suspicious or who the find town-ish at all. They promised they’d do so soon, and I hope to hear from them about it.
Final Destination-scummy.
Balam-Don’t really have a problem with the vote on DaSpotthatkillsu, although I am wondering why, exactally; only thing he said was that thing about sigs, and that’s not exacatlly a scumtell. He hasn’t done anything since. Borderline lurker; just responded to a prod; expect to hear from them soon.
Mrs. Flay-Severe lurker. Has yet to make a useful post this game. Needs to post or die. Guys, I know there’s 4 of you, and odds are Flameaxe has probably already flaked, so I’m not surprised you’re having trouble coming to a consensus, but that’s ok; if any of you has any opinion on anything, just post it and we’ll move on from there, or just post both sides of a disagreement you have, or something. You guys need to get some thoughts down into the thread.
Reckamonic-I don’t really get the attack on Unicorn. I guess it was a joke vote, ish, but he’s kept it on all game, possibly because they've been lurking since rvs. Needs to get in here and post.
Greymarble- Leaning town. I like the reasoning on Final Destination, and his reluctant conclusion that UB is probably town in his ISO post 10 and 12 feels really town to me.
Untrod Stranger- Could be tunneling town at this point. I don’t get why he’s so uber-committed to getting frog lynched that he’s willing to overcommit so heavily to the wagon and willing to mow down everyone who’s even remotely in his way, pretty much without any regard to facts or reason, and it’s especially odd considering that his case on frog really isn’t strong. Still, town tunnel like that so often I can’t really call it a scumtell.
BeaverWeasel-Has been mostly useless. Has been voting Pathetic all game and I have no idea why. Has also been lurking. If there’s one lurkerscum in this game, it might be this guy.
Unicorn Brethren- I think they’re probably town. A bunch of different people posting from this account, but they all give good vibes, they all make sense to me, in different ways.
DaSpotthatkillsu- Borderline scummy.
Summery:
Town: Ether.
Leaning town: Greymarble, frog, unicorn.
Null-ish: Gummybear, US.
Lurking: Mrs Flay, Balam, Reck.
Lurkerscum: Balam.
Borderline Scummy: DaSpot
Scummy: Final Destiation.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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"Buddying" is a terrible scumtell. If someone is obviously town, and there's multiple people voting for them, I'm sure as hell going to say so. Giving reads on people who are town is a good idea anyway. In any case, pro-town people should work together, and when multiple pro-town people figure out each other's alignment and form a pro-town voting block, it makes it much harder for scum to win.Balam wrote: I am of the opinion that YFC, as Fate pointed out, is off. I dislike the feel surrounding the Y[os]FC / Ether buddying, and I get the feeling of YFC tying to latch on to a town Ether. Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.
I don't know who ever came up with the idea "hey, whenever person A says person B is town it's scummy", but they were wrong. The whole taboo on defending someone or saying when you think they're town is just bad mafia theory.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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bah, I keep doing that. I'll try to repost stuff I post with the wrong account here to make it easier for people doing iso's.
Oh, on an unrelated note; Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.Yosarian2 wrote:
Meh; at the time, I was basically just looking for a wagon to join, something to get the game moving. You don't need much of a reason to join an early day 1 wagon; the town's got to get started somewhere. Her arguments against gummy seemed reasonably logical; and even better, they were funny, which is a huge town-tell from Ether.Balam wrote:It is less your level of saying Ether is town and more the wholesale agreement with pretty much everything Ether was saying at the time regarding FD without giving anything more than glazed commentary on things not spoken about by Ether (at the time, not as of current).
The way FD responded to pressure was what really gave me a stronger scum read on him; the early meta case against him seemed valid to me, but if it was just that, I might have moved on to a different vote by now.
I'm not really clear why Ether has decided FD is town now. If she wants to explain, that's cool; otherwise, like I just said to Cayke, let Ether wander off and be a loose cannon pointed in one direction, we'll wander off and be a loose cannon pointed in the other direction, and the scum's got to start falling out of the trees one way or the other.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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I would say she didn't vote you for "theory", exactly, she voted you for anti-town play, and at the time I agreed with her. I tend to agree that your reluctance to give any reads at all, even for days, when you can't confer probably is anti-town, in that it both stalls the game and makes you harder to read, but now that I've gone back and done an ISO on you, it's consistent with your earlier thought process, so I don't think it's a scum-tell.GummyBear wrote: 1: No, it didn’t. Theory is a shit reason to vote somebody, especially on someone with an exprerimental / new playstyle
Still, in the future; if you can't confer, but have time to post, I would like to see you post some relevant thoughts on who might be scum in the game. Basically, I don't care if you post together or post separately, but if you can't post together then having at least one player in your hydra playing the game is much better for the town then not hearing anything relevant from either of you. Don't worry so much about contradicting yourself, that doesn't really matter.
Huh? What other explanation is there?3: This sounds like you’re trying really hard to defend your townread on her. I can understand that… but it’s certainly not the first explanation that comes to mind.
Take a look at her posts. She was the only person voting for you, and it's pretty obvious that her goal was not to convince other people to vote for you, or to get a quick lynch through on you, or whatever; her goal was to get a rise out of you, to force to to react to her, in order to try to get a read on you.
I mean, look at her posts here. First she tries to find out who you suspect. When she won't answer you, she says this:
She eventually votes you, and then when you ask her why, she says this:Pathetric wrote:
-EtherGummy wrote:I'm afraid you'll catch me if I don't rehearse all of my stances first.
She's not trying to lynch you here, or trying to build a case or whatever. She's trying to get a read on you, trying to make you react or do something in-thread that will allow her to understand you, trying to pressure you into placing a vote or something, and basically is trying to piss you off if necessary in order to get you to react. At this point in the game, you were being entirely unreadable, and possibly deliberately so, so she decided to try and pick a fight with you to get a read on you; basically, she's trying to piss you off here so you'll do something, anything. That's a risky, and entirely pro-town, move; scum have no reason to make enemies like that.Pathetric wrote:Well, I'm gonna sleep now. Long day tomorrow. I guess you two can confer and figure it out.
-Ether
I thought all of that was fairly obvious from her posting, and that doesn't have anything to do with meta. I'm not surprised it's hard for you to see it, since it's you she's picking a fight with here, but I was confused why Fate didn't see it.
Yeah, that is true, but I was under the impression that Ether's meta was fairly well known.4 & 5: We’ve never played with Ether before, and this is pretty obviously meta-based info.
Anyway, all in all, I like this gummy-post. They do seem to be honestly trying to get a read on people, and seem to be trying to read people fairly without regard to how it benefits them or not; for example, if Gummy was scum, I'd expect they'd be encouraging UT to attack me for tactical reasons, not calling him out on false statements. All in all, good vibes.-
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Heh. You really don't like being voted, do you Fate?
The fact is, I voted you for legitimately scummy behavior on your part, and I don't intend to unvote you unless I have a better suspect, or a reason to think my earlier on you was wrong. Just because Ether looks town, doesn't mean I'm going to unvote you just because she did. I'll unvote you if and when I think it's the right thing to do; right now, the only people who I might willing to vote instead of you are some of the scummy looking lurkers, since we're probably dealing with lurkerscum here.
Honestly, your claim that I'm not scumhunting is just strange. I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game. All you've done has been a series of bad OMGUS votes on people; first on Ether, who's obviously town, then on Frog, who is also probably town, and now on me. That's not scumhunting, that's you flipping out on people because you don't like them voting for you.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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I change my reads and change my mind all the time. You haven't yet given me a good reason to change my mind about you, though. You just seem incredibly insulted that I didn't unvote you as soon as you posted content, which is odd, since my vote on you was never a lurker vote.Final Destination wrote: 1. Ok, so we can scumhunt for the rest of the game but unless there's some magic "I AM TOWN" button, you see no reason to adapt your reads? BULLSHIT.
What is this? I don't even...2. I didn't say you should unvote because Ether did, I said there's no EVIDENCE of you conferring with her on our read, you're avoiding debating it with her because you don't want to push her too hard, you rather just sit here and call her town.
Do you usually "confer" with people you think are town but who disagree with you on your reads before you cast a vote?
Heh. You quote that line, but you don't quote the line right before it, and thus completely removed the context that answers your own question here, huh?I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.
But all you had to say about ME WAS
"scummy"
HOURS BULLSHIT MY ASS.
CAN WE GET A LYNCH ALL LIARS UP IN HERE? HE DIDNT SPEND HOURS MAKING THAT POST.
Like I said, I decided to not take a narrow focus, and to go back and do an ISO on the about half of the people in the game I had no read on at all. The point of that post wasn't to repeat myself on points I'd already made or reads I already had, either about you, or about Dana, or about Ether, ect. And, yes, since you really seem so concerned about the time, for whatever reason, I'll tell you that it took about 2 hours, I was working on post from 4:30 to about 6:30 (with just a brief break to respond to a weird attack on me from US).YosFlavouredCayke wrote:Ok. I realized I didn't actually have a read on half the people in the game, so I went through and ISO's everyone I didn't have a solid read on (which was like 6 people, mostly because there are so many damn lurkers in this game).
You just seem scummier and scummier here. It might just be you getting overly emotional (although I have no idea why, when you only have 2 votes on you right now) but I mean, what the hell is this?
Or this?FD wrote: We've come to the conclusion that if only one of FES/YOS is scum, its Yos, and that MAYBE just MAYBE FES is town
Are you seriously claiming that if I am *gasp* defending myself, that that's a scumtell?FD wrote: Is he scumhunting here, (town-motivated) or DEFENDING himself? (scum motivated).
Did someone hand you a checklist of scumtells before the game started, and dare you to make all of them before the end of day 1 or something?
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Well, on day 1 I'll often vote someone or join a wagon based on fairly weak or unreliable tells just because it's either the best thing I have to go on at the moment, or just to get information and get the game moving, or to pressure someone to act in a more pro-town way, ect. In this case, though, that's not true; Fate's actions so far this game are legitimately scummy.Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Why the qualifier?Yeastarian2 wrote:legitimately scummy
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Eh; there's really no reason I would do that. If anything, me defending them would normally be more likely to make Patrick, at least, more paranoid about me then to do anything else.Balam wrote:My personal read is that YosFlavouredCayke is scum for, basically, stroking Pathetric; to me, it reads like grooming a potential ally, and town have no business doing that.
My main goal was less "let me go and defend Ether" and more "FD is doing what looks like an OMGUS vote on someone who to me looks incredibly obvtown, I think that's scummy". I didn't bother to explain why Ether looked pro-town at first; honestly, I thought it was so obvious that I didn't need to. I wasn't really intending to "defend" her at all, more to use my read on her as a way to find scum.
I only really went into detail when more people started voting Ether, which confused and worried me, and then when multiple people (including you) asked me about why I thought Ether was so obvtown.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Yosarian2 wrote:
It might, if your vote for me had any real logic behind it, and if your voting pattern in general wasn't so obviously OMGUS driven. Most of your votes, though, seem far more concerned with trying to punish people for voting you and trying to get them to back off of your wagon then with actually finding scum.Final Destination wrote: So, jumping off the FES wagon, who has more support and you you think is TOWNTOWNLOL, to vote YOU doesn't change your mind?
The pattern behind your votes is obvious, FD, and it's really scummy. Your argument against me is pretty obviously bunk, just like your vote against ether and your vote for frog. It really looks like you just decided "I really wanna for for Yos now, because I want to get him off my back, what bullshit justification can I invent for it."
Why would I debate you with Ether? The main reason to argue with someone is to figure out their alignment.The fuck? When did we say that? We found it odd you weren't DEBATING your read on us with Ether, since we're apparently your top scumread who's done all sorts of "legit scummy" things... but you're not willing to contest this with Ether. You don't wanna get in a fight with a townie you have deep in your pocket.
um...yes, I just did. Obviously so; you should be able to tell that just from the time stamps of my posts, in fact. It takes a while to do an ISO on 6 people.You did not spend two hours making an ISO on that many people in a game this size, AND TO ONLY have "scummy" as your reasoning for why your vote was on this slot. You. Did. Not.
At this point, i was actually trying to avoid tunneling, and was trying to get a read on everyone else in the game. Also, I'm trying to figure out where, logically, the scum group might be.
I notice you don't seem to even comment on any of the reads or observations I did make, which I find pretty bizarre in this situation. It seems like the only thing you care about is my read on you, and how you don't like that it's scummy; you basically have no interest in commenting on anything else.
Every pro-town person should defend themselves whenever attacked. You sure as hell have.
Yes, you defending yourself as a clear focus of your play, moreso than scumhunting, as well as your focus on budying people, is a scumtell. I'm not going to debate why scumtells are scumtells with you, because you'll obviously deny it.Are you seriously claiming that if I am *gasp* defending myself, that that's a scumtell?
The difference between my play and yours is that I spend some time defending myself, and spend some time scumhunting, trying to find out people's alignments. (As much townhunting as scumhunting, actually, but the result is the same.) You, on the other hand, spend ALL of your time defending yourself, trying to get people to unvote you, and you DISGUISE that AS scumhunting. You pretend that you're scumhunting, but it's pretty obvious that your only motive is to discredit people who want to lynch you.
What I've been doing is pro-town; pro-town people should defend themselves, should respond to attacks and questions ect, but shouldn't ever let it stop them from scumhunting, from trying to figure out people's alignments. What you've been doing is scummy as hell; scum don't care about scumhunting, obviously, so they OMGUS, they use their vote and their attacks to try to either get people off of them or discredit their attackers so other people won't listen to them.
Plus, tbh, another big reason I'm voting you at this point is that there are a lot of people that look pro-town to me, and you are not one of them. If I'm right about most or all my town reads, then the odds you are scum are petty high here; there just aren't that many likely scumgroups at this point that don't include you.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Do read Balam's post people. Its witty AND accurate! (Balam is town people.)
I also agree with most of what he says. "Paranoid Town" read on FD is something I would like to pull out and point at mostly. OH and the town read on myself and yos.
I'm going to ISO FD right here to see if I still think he's paranoid town, or if I agree with my current vote on him (placed by yos, obv).
First off, I still think you're town FD. I also think you're obnoxious TYPING LIKE THIS IN HALF OF YOUR POSTS, as well as your continous OMGUS-y votes, are dumb and anti-town.
Yos posted "scummy" because you had been the focus for a lot of our posts, so he felt as though those reasons were already OUT there.Final Destination wrote:I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.I went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.
But all you had to say about ME WASI went through and spent hours trying to get a read on every single person in the game.
"scummy"
HOURS BULLSHIT MY ASS.
CAN WE GET A LYNCH ALL LIARS UP IN HERE? HE DIDNT SPEND HOURS MAKING THAT POST.
[NOT AGM APPROVED]
READING DO YOU SPEAK IT.[JD tagline stolen without permission][Another note, I can be annoying too!]
-twitch.FD wrote:BALAM! FROSTY! DO NOT THINK YOS IS TOWN BECAUSE YOS HAS "Logic"! ITS EASY TO HAVE LOGIC WHEN CALLING PEOPLE HE KNOWS ARE TOWN ARE TOWN, WHICH IS THE MAIN FOCUS OF HIS PLAY. LOOK AT THE LOGICAL HOLES IN THEONLY MISLYNCH HES FELT LIKE PUSHING THIS GAME-ON US! LOOK AT IT AND BEHOLD THE SCUMBAGGERY!
You are REALLY getting on my nerves here. Telling people things like that is perfectly fine, but yelling and commanding it to be true is just you being obnoxious.
My current read on you is "fucktarded town."
You spout nonsense everywhere, in capslocks mind you, and imo, that is just poor play. Your point doesnt come across any better LIKE THIS. TRUST ME I'VE TRIED TO PLAY GAMES LIKE THIS. IT DOESNT WORK.
With that, I disagree with my other head of Yos on his scum read on you, and US is my top suspect.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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US wrote:Youre all wrong. Frogito is your scum.
Look at their posts.The posts are clearly used to state that they are around, but not really contributing much other than a walking meatvote.All that Frogito has done is wait for bandwagons to grow just big enough to hop on unceremoniously. Has no strong opinions, but yet jumps on the biggest wagons at the time.
And the cincher is that insencere warning about the L-1. That line sounded like a surreptious invitation for someone to hammer. Notice he wasnt afraid of the quickhammer, otherwise he wouldnt have voted. So then why put up a warning?
Vote:Frogito Ergo ScumUS wrote:Hey FrogJerky, dont be trying that arrogant asshole "RTFT" bullshit on me, it doesnt work.Sit on it long enough to not arouse suspicion and then hop on the more likely wagon now.Your single vote change is enough to convince me of rampant opportunism.
The meta argument is also bullshit. In fact all of these bandwagons are merely railroaded contraptions. NONE of them have any merit.
It seems like, to me at least, earlier you were 100% sure FES was scum because of that one vote then that final post i quoted seem to contradict that. Its as if that ONE JUMP was no longer your main reason for voting them.US wrote:And we never said hat Froggy was bandwagoning A LOT either. Nice attempt at misinformation there. He hopped on two wagons that were highly opportunistic. Thats more than enough to attempt to skim the surface and hide in the scummy shadows.
If this is the case, what else has he done to warrant the vote? "Because i said so" is not a vaild answer.
Gummy has a very good point.GummyBear wrote:
D’uhhhh… what? Single ANYTHING =/= rampant. Sorry, try again.US 189 wrote: Your single vote change is enough to convince me of rampant opportunism.
Profusely widespread = One time? Kthen...THE DICTIONARY wrote:Rampant:
a : marked by a menacing wildness, extravagance, or absence of restraint <rampant rumors>
b : profusely widespread <rampant weeds>
Your response to this:
The words you use to describe things tend to reflect exactly how you feel. soooooooooooo yeah.US wrote:Durrwhat? Throwing an opportunistic vote means you're being opportunistic. You're disagreeing with a modifier, not the idea itself. If you don't think it's opportunistic then prove why. If you do agree that it's opportunistic then I'm not sure what the issue is here. An opportunistic vote is way worse than us using hyperbole (which is our meta, by the way, so get used to it).That with your vote is buuuuuuuullshit. Why exactly are we your #1 scum read?
Lousy post content (!) and ONE opportunistic jump =/= scum.US wrote:Our case on Froggy still stands. Opportunistic voting, lousy post content (still!), and now you can even add strategic lurking to the list. But you all rather wave your dicks out and piss on each other than catch the scum.
U Needz Bettah Case mmmmmmk?
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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There's...nothing to say? You don't even want to respond to the case I made against you, or have any thoughts on the opinions of my other head, or anything?Final Destination wrote:[AGM]
Holy fuck ... Reck and dram, replace out or post. There's really nothing more to say at this point with so much input missing.
[Fate Approved]
My other head wanted to move the vote off of you and onto US, but I really wanted to wait until we at least heard a response from you to my last post before we moved our vote. But, I guess you're just not going to make a response at all? Considering how freaked out you were by me NOT making a case on you in my "general analysis of the game" post, I'm really confused by your (lack of) response here, unless it's tactically motivated.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Are you mason-fishing? Because "X thinks Y is town, and Y thinks X is town so they must be scum together or masons" is a terrible argument. Much more likely is the "X and Y are both town and have played with each other so many times they can accurately read each other" possibility you completely ignore for some reason.BeaverWeasel wrote: I am dissapointed that there are less YosCayke/Pathetric votes. Those two have had their heads so far up eachothers asses they will either claim masons or one of them is scum.
Why not?His early defense of Ether is lulzy and seems to be trying to chainsaw. "Obvtown" is not the correct way to describe her.
In any case, calling my attack on Fate a "chainsaw" is just stupid. An attack can only be a "chainsaw" attack if you're saying Ether is scum with me, and just later in this very post you call Ether town.
If any pro-town person sees person A make a scummy looking attack on pro-town looking person B, they're likely to vote person A for it. That's not a "chainsaw" attack, that's called "scumhunting".
Huh. You are correct; my summery should have listed Balam as lurker and you as lurkerscum. I must have switched them by mistake when making the final list. It's odd that you're the first person to notice that.Yos' 236 is funny, for the reasons Equi pointed out early (Balam is :goodposting: to balam is Lurkerscum in one post. Also, calls us lurkerscum then leaves us out of the summary.)
What the hell are you talking about?I also find it funny that YFC backs up on his hailing of Ether when he is called out on it. He goes from "Ether is Obvtown" to "I don't have to trust her" and tries to qualify it with the wifom of "they are more likely to suspect me by calling them obvtown"
Patrick-Ether are obvtown. Anyone who reads their posts should know that. I've never said I didn't trust her, or anything like that.
That last sentence was a response to the attack that I was trying to "buddy" with them "to get them on my side" or whatever. There's no reason I would do that, especally since it wouldn't be that likely to actually work.
Yes, they're pretty obviously town in that argument. Me saying that is what you're ATTACKING me for, which makes this whole post you're making here even more bizzare.Of the two, Pathetric is actually reading town to me. Especially during the Gummy Debacle of Page 5. It comes across as a TvT theory arguement (in which we agree with Gummy)
And, yeah, that's probably a town v. town fight.
I don't understand why you're attacking me for believing something you apparently agree with.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Umm... Lolwtf?
I know yos just said this, but it needs to be said again just to point out the sheer idiocy that went into this line of thinking.
YosCayke+PatrickEther= Scum or Mason.
YosCayke is dumb for calling PatrickEther obvtown.
PatrickEther is town so YosCayke must be scum?????????????????????
Lolwtf.
Weasle went from lurker scummy-ish, to scum pulling a "case" out of thin air that makes no sense.
kthnxbai.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Eh. Basically, I think FD is almost certainty scum, while I think there's a chance UT is just tunneling town who's just wrong about everything. Cayke thinks UT is scum, and thinks FD might be tunneling town who's wrong about everything.Pathetric wrote:Hey, Yosarian? I know you've been keeping Cayke from voting Mr. Tripod. If you feel strongly about that, I think you'd better start discussing him with the rest of us as well.
-Ether
I wouldn't say I'm stopping her from doing anything, this is her hydra as much as it's mine. I really would rather get some kind of real response from FD before I unvote them, but honestly, I'm not expecting much from him in any case at this point. We're fairly likely to move over to US soon, though; Cayke is really convinced about him.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Lord Gurgi wrote:I think I'm just going to start posting as this not having an account thing is getting mighty long in the tooth.
Is an important thing to note RE: Vote issue. I think it should be allowed, but its TBM's game -shrug.
Vote: Untrod Stranger
I have decided this is the best place for our vote right now. Everyone needs to post a bit more imo.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Vote:Beaver Weasel
I think this is the way to go. Tbh, I kind of feel bad that I didn't push to lynch him yesterday after that one teribad post of his; my gut really wanted to just drop everything else and try and start a new wagon on him at that point.
I still don't like the case against froggy here. It still basically just feels like FD OMGUSing because he dosn't like that froggy was tunneling on him yesterday. The argument that he's scummy because he DIDN'T join a wagon on a townie is the really bad kind of WIFOM.
That being said, I'm not as convinced as I was for most of yesterday of FD being scum. Feels like if he was scum, he'd have been more likely to use the fact that me and Cayke's reads were somewhat different at the end of the day yesterday as a BS reason to continue to attack us, instead of writing us off as probably town because of it.
Also, I wanted to ask DaSpot about this:
He said this after the hammer, but before the alignment reveal. Re-reading his earlier posts, he did at one point briefly mention that he thought US was pro-town, but he never really tried to defend him or argue against the wagon, even though he was around while it was building up. It just seems odd to me; DaSpot, if you guys were THAT sure that the US wagon was going to be a bad one, why didn't you try harder to stop it?DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:.... you all are idiots.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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I think I've explained my town read on Patheric half a dozen times by this point; if you have any specific questions, I'll be glad to answer them. I would say that I'd expect most pro-town people to read Ether's attack on Gummy and think "Huh, she's probably not scum, I can't see a scum being that aggressive this early for so little personal gain here", while I'd expect a scum to look at it (especally if I'm right and both Patheric and Gummy are town) and say "Hey, there's some odd posting there, I bet I can get a mislynch through on Ether because of that, plus here's a good town v town fight going between gummy and Patheric, let's see if I can keep it going." I do think attacking Ether for those posts is something a scum is more likely to do then a town.Copper wrote: There are two major problems we have with YosCayke. The first being this absolute read on Patheric that's really bordering on being over-the-top. Post 166 is a good example of this, where YosCayke is not just recognizing Patheric as an obvious townie, but actually goes so far as to lambast FD for not having the same opinion. We've read over this and the surrounding posts several times, and every time we do this sticks out as awkward and clumsy.
Distance myself from US? What do you mean?The second is mostly contained in post 341, where we've got this idea that YosCayke is trying to distance themselves from the growing and soon-to-be hammered US. This really cannot sit well with anyone. If YosCayke takes the same aggressive approach against FD that they did yesterday, this might serve to excuse them somewhat, but the US vote is hardly what we'd consider purposeful. How are we supposed to read this? A resigned concession for the wagon to go ahead or as a firm proponent of the wagon? Are we supposed to see it as both? This is probably not as harsh of a criticism as it’s being made to seem, it could probably even be argued that we're being a bit overcritical of the slot, but Copper is not sold on the idea that YosCayke is town.
Personally, I never really was in favor of a US lynch. (In my analysis of everyone in the game, I mentioned that I thought US could be tunneling town, and marked him down as "null-ish") Cayke always was, as you can see from several of her posts.
I told Cayke before the game started that if she wants to vote someone, she should just do it; she doesn't need to ask my permission. In the same way, I vote for people without asking her permission. We actually have very similar reads on most of the people in the game, and in general, I trust her judgment; and I actually think that playing a hydra as basically a pair of masons that share one vote is generally better for the town then the "discuss everything in private and only post once you agree on everything" playstyle, even if it seems a little scitzo; it should make us easier to read, it lets us pressure different people and ask different questions, ect.
Towards the end of the day yesterday, she really wanted to vote for US, she had a very strong gut reading on him as scum, and while I still had him as basically null-ish and was never that convinced he was scum, I told her over AIM she should do what she thought was right, to vote him if and when and how she thought it was best to; my FD vote seemed to be doing absolutely nothing right then, and I thought that if she wanted to use our vote to follow her lead, she should. Although I'll admit that I didn't expect the day to end quite so suddenly after that.
(shrug) I'm guessing most heads of hydras in the game are going to sometimes have somewhat different reads on people. I don't really understand why us being honest about that in thread is a problem. If you read Cayke's posts on the subject of US (our ISO posts # 27, 28, and 29), you should be able to see where she was coming from.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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THE CASE AGAINST FES IS TERRIBLE.
There is no reason to think they are scum here at all. This whole wagon is just being driven by Fate not liking that he's being voted, and it's just garbage. I'm going to be really pissed if they end up getting lynched today, I really think they're probably town here, everything they've done so far this game makes sense to me, and there are posts from them I would never expect to see a scum make.
Are you serious here? You really going to try to claim that I never explained why Ether was obviously town yesterdaY?GummyBear wrote: YFC, we STILL haven’t gotten a satisfactory explanation from you as to why Pathetric was obvtown, despite your insistence that you’ve explained it. If you want to point out where you’ve made it clear why they were obvtown, it would be excellent. However, I don’t see it.
YosFlavoredCayke wrote:
Ether's reasoning for suspecting Gummy made perfect sense, and was about as strong as you'd expect for page 5 of day 1. The fact that she was willing to wagon hop to someone else scummy in order to get pressure going is a good sign, not a bad one. Basically as soon as the game started, she ran right out onto the high wire without a net, just to get reactions and to get the game moving. And what's more, she's clearly having fun doing it; if Ether's enjoying herself in a game, you can bet money that she's town.
Seriously, you couldn't find those posts? It's especially odd since the second one there was directed to your other head, and your other head agreed with me afterwords.YosFlavouredCayke wrote:
Huh? What other explanation is there?3: This sounds like you’re trying really hard to defend your townread on her. I can understand that… but it’s certainly not the first explanation that comes to mind.
Take a look at her posts. She was the only person voting for you, and it's pretty obvious that her goal was not to convince other people to vote for you, or to get a quick lynch through on you, or whatever; her goal was to get a rise out of you, to force to to react to her, in order to try to get a read on you.
I mean, look at her posts here. First she tries to find out who you suspect. When she won't answer you, she says this:
She eventually votes you, and then when you ask her why, she says this:Pathetric wrote:
-EtherGummy wrote:I'm afraid you'll catch me if I don't rehearse all of my stances first.
She's not trying to lynch you here, or trying to build a case or whatever. She's trying to get a read on you, trying to make you react or do something in-thread that will allow her to understand you, trying to pressure you into placing a vote or something, and basically is trying to piss you off if necessary in order to get you to react. At this point in the game, you were being entirely unreadable, and possibly deliberately so, so she decided to try and pick a fight with you to get a read on you; basically, she's trying to piss you off here so you'll do something, anything. That's a risky, and entirely pro-town, move; scum have no reason to make enemies like that.Pathetric wrote:Well, I'm gonna sleep now. Long day tomorrow. I guess you two can confer and figure it out.
-Ether
I thought all of that was fairly obvious from her posting, and that doesn't have anything to do with meta. I'm not surprised it's hard for you to see it, since it's you she's picking a fight with here, but I was confused why Fate didn't see it.
Yeah, that is true, but I was under the impression that Ether's meta was fairly well known.4 & 5: We’ve never played with Ether before, and this is pretty obviously meta-based info.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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(shrug) I can't really explain how or why anyone who's pro-town could have or would have had any doubt about her alignment on day 1, if they bothered to read her posts and use their brains. If you want to know why certain other people "didn't think she was town", you should ask them; I certainly can't explain it.GummyBear wrote:YFC, to clarify what quadz was talking about:
He thought it was odd that you you thought Pathetric was obvtown and expected everyone else to see the same obvtown tells for Ether as you did. While I accepted your defense against her because I could see town motives for what she did, it was still weird that it seemed like the meta you had on her was supposed to just be blanketed over to everyone else who thought she was scummy. Hence why it was "unsatisfactory," so to speak.
Though that comment came AFTER this observation:
Nothing to say about that?Gummybear wrote:YFC’s continued insistence that Pathetric is obvtown is becoming really frustrating. It should be apparent that nobody else thinks so. (However, the fact that YFC does lean so strongly toebwop: Patheticbeing obv-town leads me to think that YFC may have been helping direct the NK)
-Singer
As for your second point, it seems pretty self-evidently silly. What reason would I have as scum for wanting Ether dead?
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Eh. I tend to do a lot of townhunting and process of elimination scumhunting. Clearing 10 people as town is just as good as finding 3 scum.
Speaking of scumhunting, gummy's comment earlier got me thinking about the motivation behind the Ether kill. Considering her suspicions yesterday, and how she was likely to vote today, Ether being killled makes Beaver look worse, and Froggy (and, to a lesser extent, FD) look better. She was pretty clear in her intent to lynch Beaver today.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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The spot wagon? No, not really. I'd expect CES, at least, to quickly and agressivly join early-game bandwagons without actually explaining why; he's definatly part of that school of thought. And Spot was looking scummy at that point; for someone who's inclined to agressivly push early day 1 wagons, that's one I'd expect them to like.Lord Fonzi wrote: So you think jumping a wagon in the manner they did isn't scummy?
(Edit: I just realized that you probably mean the FD vote. I also don't agree that that vote was scummy; FD's response to being voted looked incredibly suspicious to me, and the fact that Froggy had the same reaction to FD's defense makes sense to me. )
Well, for one example, this chain of reasoning feels like one I wouldn't expect to see from scum:Also, please remind me of what these 'scum wouldn't do it' posts are.
Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:Congrats ether, that's a neat little game of semantics you're playing there.Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:
We were talking about the presented quotes in #120. We originally thought the contradiction was imaginary but after AIM-fueled reflection came to the conclusion that the point of view Gummybear puts forth does contain an inconsistency. We however feel the inconsistency is, if anything, genuine and not the result of intentionally taking an anti-town position. We dislike the amount of reasoning put forth in #120 since, as evidenced by our position, we don't feel the relevant conclusion follows as straightforwardly as the lack of reasoning suggests.Pathetric wrote:What do you think I was trying to say?
He starts off calling out Ether on her position on Gummy's "contradiction", calling it semantics. He then thought and discussed it with his other head, and then came to the conclusion that it might not be just semantics. But he still thought that even if it was a contradiction, it probably wasn't an "intentionally anti-town" one, and still said he disliked Ether's post.
That's a very nuanced and thoughtful position; he realized he was partly wrong, but still didn't agree that Gummy's actions were actually scummy, so he said so, and expressed some concern about Ether's seeming to take for granted that it was without explaining. The whole thing looks like a pro-town person who's both honestly trying to figure out what is wrong, and honestly trying to point out what he sees as a logical flaw in a case being made; it's not the kind of post I expect scum to make. I expect scum to be much less likely to undermine their own point by admitting they were incorrect; I'd expect scum to either really go for the throat and just try to hammer the attack against Ether home, or else back off and try to disengage from the fight. He didn't do either, and I don't really see why scum would act that way.
Also, the "I didn't realize FD was at lynch -1 when I made the post, but now I am aware of it, and I want to make sure everyone else knows it" dosn't really feel like a scum move either; if FD is town, hypo-Froggy-scum would have put themselves in a more defendable position if they had just claimed that they didn't know he was at lynch -1; plus, Froggy-scum likely would have hoped that someone else didn't notice he was at lynch -1 and hammered accidentally. Yeah, a scum COULD do something like that to just try to get townie-points, but I don't really think that's the case; it dosn't look like it, and it dosn't feel like it. (Note that this is all if FD is town; in the other scenario, FD-scum, then I think there's no chance at all of Froggy-scum. There's no way those two are scum together.)
In any case, most of Froggy's posts look reasonable to me. I generally know who they suspect and who they don't, their actions make sense to me, and it just doesn't seem like they're that interested in self-preservation. (For example, the two biggest wagons today are beaverweasel and froggy, and yet he's shown absolutely no interest in supporting the other wagon, and went as far as to call beaver's action "null", while continuing to stick to his guns and go after FD despite the massive blowback he's getting here. If he was scum, I'd expect him to at the very least be positioning himself to where he could get on the beaverwagon if necessary.)-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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You think US is the "only person I found scummy thus far"? Really?DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:...Yos where the fuck are your scum reads???
...forget FES, the only person you found scummy thus far was a mislynch
Beaverweasel is probably scum. When someone lurks for 90% of the day, and the few posts they make are scummy, they're generally a great lynch; most of the time I'd rather lynch a scummy looking lurker then someone active.then you start on beaverweasel, an easy target.
I mean, I'm certanly willing to be convinced by the replacement, but for now, he's still my #1 suspect. If you think beaverweasel is town, you need to tell me why you think that, because I don't see it at all.
What the hell does "easy target" mean, anyway? Every time I've seen someone say "easy target", it seems to mean "Player X is attacking player Y because player Y looks really scummy".-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Fonz, FD: Now that it's over, I highly recommend you look at CES's early day 1 play in Oldy mafia, where he was pro-town, to get an idea of his meta.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15653&user_select=1563
Just look at his early posts in ISO.
Jumping on early wagons, even big early wagons, without giving much in the way of reasons, is completely in character for CES-town. Generally speaking, when he's town, he'll jump on wagons that I would be inclined to agree with, and he doesn't bother to explain why.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Not at all. What I was saying was that Fonz's case against him, which was basically that CES jumped on a large wagon early on day 1 without giving much reasoning of his own, is not a reliable scum tell for CES.Final Destination wrote:And you're giving him a pass because of meta? What the HELL. "CES town jumps on wagon as towns, ergo herpderp if he does it EVER hes town"
On an unrelated note, Cayke just told me on AIM that she is going to be V/LA for a while, she's got some stuff going on and isn't going to have a chance to get caught up on the mafia game. I'll still be around though.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Huh? Nothing in the beaver case has anything to do with meta at all; i don't even know for sure who Beaver was (afaik, the mastin thing was just speculation). The fact that it's generally better to lynch a scummy looking lurker then an active player is just common sense.GummyBear wrote:
Yos DOES seem to be basing more reads on meta than he should…YosFlavouredCayke wrote:Beaverweasel is probably scum. When someone lurks for 90% of the day, and the few posts they make are scummy, they're generally a great lynch; most of the time I'd rather lynch a scummy looking lurker then someone active.
Some of my reads used meta, of course, especially some of the town ones. if you've played with someone, you'd better use meta when you read them.
Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear some content from SVT. I understand that it takes a while to catch up on a game like this, but I do not want to consider unvoting them until SVT gives me a reason to.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Well, my top scum reads are still SVT (nothing he's done has counteracted the incredibly strong scum read I get off of Beaver's late day 1 posting) and DaSpot, who's been scummy all game and his recent behavior is just terrible. It's entirely possible they're scum together, DaSpot has seemed to be activly trying to prevent a Beaver-lynch today, for reasons he hasn't really explained, but they are each quite scummy on their own merits in any case.Balam wrote:(Equinox)
We're looking forward to seeing reads from GummyBear soon. Also, AGar wants to see YosFlavouredCayke's scum reads (aside from Final Destination) coming from YosFlavouredCayke themselves instead of "lolobv" from Lord Fonzi; he doesn't care if it's a "They smell funny" kind of read.
Also, Super Vanilla Townie, patience is wearing thin.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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No, I didn't feel the need to fully explain it right away; it's often better to just make a statement like that to get reactions, to see who falls over themselves defending the person I'm attacking, or attacking me, or whatever, and then explain it in more detail later, which I did.Super Vanilla Townie wrote: Uh... and that's a scumtell how? The way you phrased it here reads like "Voting Ether D1 is always bad" so thanks for not explaining that and I'll let you know that anyone can be scum d(''d).
And, for the record, when Ether plays like she did this game, she is town, without fail.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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So...what? Are you going to explain why you were opposed to a beaver lynch at the moment you attacked me for voting for him, or perhaps are you going to tell us what you think of Beaver's alignment? Or are you going to deny that you were defending Beaver?DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:Posting because QT need attention (HINT)
also,
.... has anyone else noticed this? anyone?yoscayke wrote: DaSpot has seemed to be activly trying to prevent a Beaver-lynch today
nice try there yoscayke. nice. try.
*woosh*
What the hell does "nice try" mean? I'm trying to figure out your alignment, and "nice try" isn't especially helpful here.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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I think it's a good vote, because I think he's most likely scum based on his play. If you think it's not a good vote, you should explain why you think he's town.
Also, the "he was going to get replaced" argument is terrible. You're saying I should AVOID voting for someone because they're a lurker? In any case, while he lurked for most of day 1, he did post a bunch of times at the end of the day; there was no reason to think at the start of day 2 when I voted for him that he was ever going to be replaced.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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So, you're just going to not answer the question and instead make a completly BS case against me that makes no sense?
If you want to OMGUS me with a case that makes sense, I'll be glad to respond to it, but pretty much every line of that case was nonsense. "He didn't post much, but there was no WAY he was lurking, NONE." Right after in your last post, where you seemed to suggest that it was obvious he was going to be replaced? Wtf are you talking about? If he's not posting, then that means he's lurking; that's what lurking
And pretty much every other line in your post is a deliberate misrepresentation of what I said. I didn't "blame you for the US wagon", I said it was incredibly scummy for you to declare him town AFTER he was lynched but before the flip, but not defend him BEFORE he was lynched. And that is incredibly scummy; the most likely explanation is that you are scum who already knew his alignment, but didn't actually want to stop his lynch.
Whatever.
Vote:DaSpot
Your partner SVT can hang tommorow. You need to die today.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Why the hell would I unvote him before his replacement says anything useful?DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:EBWOP:
"You lobbied for a easy lynch and he replaced YOU STILL HAVE NOT UNVOTED."
If person A looks like scum, and he's replaced by person B, person B is still probably scum. The alignment dosn't change just because he's been replaced.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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If it was just lurking, that would be bad enough, but it's significantly worse then that. It's that when Beaver did post, his posts look like scum posts.DaSpotthatkillsu wrote: CONTENT
They have not active lurked They put too much down to be active lurking.
BOTH OF THEM, BEAVER AND SVT
Look at him in iso. In his ISO post #3, he made that scummy vote for Ether. Over the next 12 days, he kept that horrible vote on a townie in place; he made 4 posts, but all of them were useless garbage. He took the time to write paragraphs explaining why he wasn't going to say what players made up his hydra, but didn't say anything useful or relevent at all.
In his next post he calls Ether "decitful" for calling him a newb, and then follows it up with a completly garbage attack on me. (wtf? He keeps his identity secret, then says she's lying about how much expernece he has?), I don't know why he was attacking me, other then that I thought Ether was obvtown and he didn't. The one decent observation in this post was that I mixed up him and Balam in my summery post, but then he somehow takes that obvious typograpical error and acts like it's a scum tell. This is also the post that starts out with the masonfishing "Either Ether and Yos are masons, or they're scum", goes into "I think Ether is probably town", and then votes for me. There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin.
My best guess here is that Beaver was scum who was afraid me and Ether were masons. He was trying to get me to admit that or deny it in that horribly worded and scummy attack post there, and then when I wouldn't answer, he killed Ether because he thought she was a mason.
Anyway, he made a few other posts, but they were garbage. He calls US "incredibscum" but dosn't vote him, and asks in the same post for what the case against him is. And then he repeated his masonfishing garbage.
So, he lurked for 90% of the day, and when he posted, it was to vote for a townie (Ether) for stupid reasons, to keep his vote on that townie while refusing to comment on anything for a week and a half, and then to vote me for calling Ether a townie, while rolefishing, contradicting himself, and generally acting like newb scum. Now, please, explain to me how from that you got a town read off of him.-
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Bah, I keep posting with the wrong account in this game.Yosarian2 wrote:
Not in the current meta. The current meta is "town never talk about the reasons behind nightkills, so scum generally can get away with killing off whoever suspects them with impunity, without worrying about how it looks." Town should be analyzing nightkill motives more then they are now. Granted, there can in theory be a ton of WIFOM, but if towns at least consider the obvious nightkill motives, that is going to either catch scum or else make it harder for scum to directly influence the day-game with their nightkills, and either way, it'll result in more town wins.Super Vanilla Townie wrote: WIFOM. Scum can kill someone to frame, PR hunt, or just for the hell of it. I dislike discussing reasons for nightkills, because it's never very useful.
You are right, of course, about the possibility of PR hunting. In fact, it was your predecessor, Beaver, who was openly speculating in thread that Ether was a mason.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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Yeah; not long ago in this game I just linked to a game I just finished with him, when he was town.
He spent one long post where he attacked DaSpot and said he would "compromise on a daspot wagon", while he wouldn't compromise on most other wagons. Then, when a DaSpot wagon happened, he joined it, like he just said he would. What's so hard to read about that?
You can read a lot from a vote, from when someone votes, how they vote, what the context of the vote is, ect. It requires a little thought, but you can actually get a lot more information from a post that's just:
Vote: X
and nothing else then you can get from someone who makes posts that's a lot of gibberjabber but dosn't really say anything new and dosn't vote.
PPE: Sorry, Lord Fonzi. Didn't even realize I was posting from the wrong account until you said so. In fact, I was about to make a third post from Yosarian2 when I saw your post pop up.
To help out people doing ISO reads later in the game, I'll repost my last two posts in here. If you already read them, then ignore this.
Yosarian2 wrote:
That's not how I read it. They were unwilling to vote for Beaver when that was the main other wagon, because they thought beaver was town. On the other hand, they made very clear back when DaSpot had no votes that they'd be willing to lynch him:Lord Fonzi wrote: But why now? The timing doesn't seem to fit with any honest appraisal of the game. You stayed on FD far longer than it was doing any good. So one might think, fine, they're tunneling. But if you're really tunneling, why wouldn't you wait until the last possible moment to change your vote? So it looks like you tried to look like you were tunneling to justify the earlier wagon hop, but then dropped the tunnel as soon as there was a viable counterwagon to your own. Which says playing to survive to me.
Note that this attack on DaSpot, and this expressed willingess to vote for him, came at a point when daspot had zero votes. Hardly looks like a real attempt to get a counterwagon going.Frogito Ergo Sum wrote:
Frankly, none of our top suspects have a lot of votes. We're not going to compromise onto a wagon we view as strictly worse than our current wagon unless we have some pressing reason to - either because we believe the pressure will give interesting reactions or because there's a deadline or because the wagon isn't that much worse than our current one.Copper wrote:FinalDestination is not getting lynched today. Even if he is scum, your vote is not helping to lynch scum. You know this.
We would compromise onto a daspot wagon.
If you're going to make this claim, back it up.Spot wrote:We may have been 3rd in the vote count for FES but who came up with that good as balls case? hmmm... oh right us.
P.S. Yes, you were pushing the wagon.
'Balam wrote:Frogito Ergo Sum, in post 450, you pointed out a number of things from DaSpotthatkillsu's behavior toward Unicorn Brethren early on Day 1. Would the possibility that those 3 posts you linked in the first paragraph came from 2 different heads make any difference to your read?
No, it makes no difference to our read. We actually discussed it together when discussing daspot and came to the conclusion that one head is probably backtracking for the other's awful position.
I was expecting the FES jump on to the DaSpot wagon; it was quite clear that he was willing to do so from his previous post. The fact that people like Grey are attacking him for it now makes me wonder if people actually are even reading FES's posts. Grey's "FES is unreadable" comment is especially odd, and I'd like to hear it explained.Yosarian2 wrote:
(shrug) I still hold that any decent pro-town player who was paying proper attention to the game should have got an obvtown read of of Ether. I also still think that everyone who voted her on day 1 should explain themselves, because I still don't understand any reasonable pro-town thought process that could have lead to the incorrect conclusion of "Ether is scum". I don't know how to make this any more clear.GummyBear wrote:We apologize profusely for taking forever to post again. :/ Real life sucks.
YFC’s 413 is not good. You continue to insist that your obvtown read on Pathetric should’ve been agreed upon by everyone, which is nonsensical at best. Due to the simple fact that not everyone (I don’t remember how many it was, but I don’t think there were very many) agreed with that read, you should know that it’s clearly not obvious.
Your presistance in attacking me for getting a correct town read off of someone who's basically legendary for being easy to get correct town reads off of is becoming increasingly odd here.
That's possible, sure. That being said, she did get 3 votes at one point. Also, her clearly stated intention was to push for a Beaver lynch today; scum are always going to take that kind of thing into account, and if scum wanted a beaver mislynch, there's no reason they couldn't have left her alive and killed her the next day instead.As to your second point: You thought she was obvtown. What better reason is there for scum to kill someone?
Is this kind of thing a 100% reliable scum tell? Of course not. But if you don't think that scum take that kind of thing into account at least to some extent when making their kill choices, you're crazy.
By the end of day 1, I had a mild pro-town read on gummybear, for reasons I explained back then.Lord Fonzi wrote: That said, YosC, can you please give your read on Gummybear?
That being said, gummy's day 2 posting has been pretty terrible all around. Gummy bear has been slowly drifting down all day into and through my null category, and I'd currently consider them borderline scummy.
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YosFlavouredCayke Goon
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I asked you why you were defending Beaver, and you invented a whole bullshit case against me rather then answer my question, at least at first. That is OMGUS, at least in the general sense; you were attacking me as a way to defend yourself (or, in this case, to avoid having to explain yourself). OMGUS dosn't just mean "you're voting me because I voted you", it can be any behavior along the lines of using fake and insincere scumhunting to counterattack someone who is attacking you.DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:Okay, this half of the hydra is getting spotty (get it?) internet access, but I'll keep it short. The people on our wagon are:
A guy who OMGUS'd because we were supposedly OMGUS'ing
A guy who FoS'd us because a post "seemed suspicious" despite his admitting that the opposite would have been scummier
A guy who we've been trying to get lynched for this whole day
So...don't listen to them.
And now you're doing it again here. Rather then respond to the logical reasons to suspect you, you're just trying to attack everyone who's attacking you. Your second one is especially bad:
since you're trying to discredit SVT now because he voted you, even though your last several posts have been defending him.A guy who FoS'd us because a post "seemed suspicious" despite his admitting that the opposite would have been scummier
By the way, you still have yet to explain this post:
DaSpotthatkillsu wrote:Posting because QT need attention (HINT)
also,