Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[Elias_the_thief]

You and Elias really crawled out the woodwork this time, eh ?

uh...I usually am playing in 3-4 games at one time. I got NKed N1 in 3 games in a row recently.

vote: ABR

Bandwagon to Victory!

[Elias_the_thief]

You and Elias really crawled out the woodwork this time, eh ?

uh...I usually am playing in 3-4 games at one time. I got NKed N1 in 3 games in a row recently.

vote: ABR

Bandwagon to Victory!

Were you town in all 3 games?

yes, though I dont see how thats relevant.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias are those games ongoing?

vote: Elias

for maybe talking about ongoing games

I've mentioned nothing that cannot be seen by going and looking at those game threads, and have not speculated at all about anything that is unknown. Further, talking about ongoing games is something the moderater should deal with, not players. Go back to playing.

Also, to Ecto

: For the reason that they are ongoing games I don't wish to speculate about the reasoning behind my NK. I will tell you that one was a newbie game in which I was an IC. As to the point about my motivation, I was only mentioning the NK's to explain the low amount of games I'm in right now. I really have no idea what ABR was talking about when he said that I "came out of the woodword".

Elias gets off'ed because he's the most annoying player in the game.

heh, says the guy who got GD banned for flooding with pointless threads.

[Elias_the_thief]

Ah, but your sig quotes Ender's game. Therefore you pretty much win everything.

[Elias_the_thief]

So yeah, can we not talk about my game history so much? I hate getting old...

Also these "inclusion" arguments are silly.

[Elias_the_thief]

a bandwagon on surye would be most productive.

unvote, vote: surye

[Elias_the_thief]

so yeah. vote stays for now.

FOS surye-ABR connection, but not particularly strong.

[Elias_the_thief]

FOS: COOL

not feeling a surye lynch.


that is all. Be back in like 48 pages.

Why does this post make me feel like I'm the infantryman and you're the general?

That is all.

when am I not the general.....

HAHA! that was not 48 pages.

SCORE

damn.... i've been had.

lulz...?

[Elias_the_thief]

So...has anything actually relevant happened here yet? So far I see a baseless wagon on coolbot leading to a useless vanilla claim and thats about it.

[Elias_the_thief]

I love how both of you are complaining that nothing relevant has happened while you both also are saying nothing relevant for pretty much the whole game.

me too. though im not really complaining. I'm just explaining my take on the game, which is that nothing relevant has happened. I dont see how this is any different from saying that relevant things HAVE happened, except that you dont agree with it. Therefore I'm OBVIOUSLY complaining.

[Elias_the_thief]

people in glass houses, something something, shouldn't throw axes at people stirring the pot, or else a kettle will call you back.

This is the most relevant post all game.

Sidenote: I'll post something contenty sometime during page 10.

[Elias_the_thief]

its gettin hot in hurr. post sometime soon, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

[Elias_the_thief]

Basic thoughts:

Adel is being adel. Nothing noteworthy yet, imo.

ABR is being ABR. Again, nothing noteworthy.

Coolbot looks scummy, but then again this may just be my perception as hes under heavy fire right now. While looking for a claim long after the opportunity has passed seems a little odd to me, what benefit does it provide scum?

Camisade has about as much contribution as me, so hes obviously lookin pretty scummy but in all seriousness, would like to see some contribution soon.

Shafted looks different then I saw in mini 495, though theres no telling what that means at this stage in the game.

PEG is another one of us not so fond of content yet fellas. IGMEOY mister.

rosso carne looks good, leading some attacks and scumhunting and such.

Ecto has a lot of posts, none of which stand out to me that much...

Anyone I forgot?

[Elias_the_thief]

guys lets lynch adel.

unvote, vote: adel

[Elias_the_thief]

wait, farside, what unvote and lack of doing anything are you talking about? Last I checked Adels vote was on ABR, though a post may have gone by when it wasnt...

Anyways, I thought this Adel wagon was just some random thing that ABR pulled our of his ass, I didnt realize it was a retarded ongoing campaign of ruining games without reason. Not only is it worthy of a policy lynch in my opinion, Adels responses basically destroyed anything he was trying to say, as he called momentum stopping scummy, and at the same time was trying to get the game abandoned. Not to mention that the creation of a baseless wagon on Adel totally derails the only activity that we had going at the time. So yeah.

unvote, vote: ABR

[Elias_the_thief]

She's doing exactly what she does as scum. Not only this, but she's doing what most players do with me as scum. Knee-jerk reaction, OMGUS, back-peddling, faking emotional flareups, its all black on white.

unvote, vote: Albert B. Rampage

he even did us the courtesy of digging his own grave

You'd think that something like this would warrant a vote lasting more than a few hours. It has the classic "A-HA, I GOT YOU NOW SCUMZZOR!" context to it.

As soon as I say "lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong", she immediately backs down because her game is one of survival first and foremost.

Anyone with a meta on her could be sensible to the funny vibes she's putting off in this game.

Look, her accusation of me wanting to lynch her for out of game reasons is utter nonsense.

Why should we trust the meta of a player who has led to her repetitive lynch as town, and led to games lost multiple times?

[Elias_the_thief]

Also, i dont understand why asking for a claim is THAT scummy.

[Elias_the_thief]

Still wondering why we're lynching coolbot for being slightly claim happy (a pretty small tell imo) and totally ignoring the idiocy of ABR...

[Elias_the_thief]

Because idiocy is not a hangng offense, Elias, whereas pushing people to do what is not in the town's best interests is one. Claiming is not in the town's best interests as long as the claimant has non-claiming options. Most especially so in a meta-breaking game.

Um...so are you telling me that pushing a completely baseless wagon on Adel even when it has completely died down IS in the towns best interests? Are you telling me that suggesting we abandon the game is in the town's best interests? Are you telling me that lying and using shotty logic to push the aforementioned baseless wagon is in the towns best interest? Especially when calling for the Adel lynch derailed what little activity we had and distracted from the wagons at hand? Asking for a claim seems like a VERY small offense when compared to what ABR has exhibited. Not to mention I'd support a policy lynch on ABR for repetitively lynching Adel baselessly in games without regard to alignment or win condition. Coolbot asked

[Elias_the_thief]

for a claim when it wasnt too unreasonable. Seeing a wagon that warranted a claim someone die down for no real reason seems to me like a viable reason to call for that claim, because a wagon dying with no specific reasons suggests that its decline had some help from our informed minority.

[Elias_the_thief]

Um...youre accusing me of BS and misinformation? I asked questions of a player, I expected HIM to answer him.

However, your answers were complete bullshit, ill give you that much.

First response: when you are ignoring other possiblities to seek a lynch that is almost certainly not going to happen this day, then it is NOT in the towns best interests. It would be better to save your thoughts for the next day and move on to getting reads on other players.

Second response: I guess youre right here, its not exactly a tell. But it IS retarded, and if you are town, then making a statement like that makes you a terrible player. A good player would post analysis and a decent case with actual arguments, so that activity could be stirred up. Suggesting we abandon the game is just dumb, and lazy play.

Response #3: How is using shotty logic, bad metas and lying to advance a baseless wagon "no effect"? Are you retarded? It pretty clearly shows that you arent looking for scum, youre just trying to get a lynch on a player by any means necessary, not necessarily caring how you do it. Definately a major tell. Adel has crushed every argument youve brought against her.

Response #4: Ok...so derailing what little we had is helpful/not a tell how? Derailing our only active wagons is definately scummy play (attempting to stop protown discussion, made even more scummy if the people being wagonned come up as scum, but thats for later times).

Response #5: Thats cool. that explains why youve somehoe managed to lead baseless wagons on Adel, leading to her repepitive town lynches, and that explains why you seem to think that you can use meta as an excuse to lead the wagon? Its obvious that you have SUCH a great read. How can you bring up meta in good faith unless youre just trying to lynch her regardless of alignment?

[Elias_the_thief]

You know, ignoring the portions of my last part that explain why youre scum will not make them go away. You've still provided no strong reason for Adel being scum, and continue to push her wagon baselessly.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm voting her because of her wishy washy voting,

Um...it was day 1 dude. Thats what you do. She hasnt changed her vote since she became serious, except to unvote and revote you.

going strongly for me, getting off when its bad, coming back on when its opportune.

You were voting her originally long before this. Even so, she was only off briefly...how does it benefit scum to stay off a wagon for about 2 posts, exactly, only to jump back on?

I'm voting her for variances in her playstyle between scum and town. I pick up on her emotional flareups and I distinguish real versus fake.

Um...thats why you've lynched her four times as town? I highly doubt you have a grasp on her playstyle.

She's using arguments only unknowledgeable players would take for face value. Scummy as heck.

Which arguments are these?

Last time she was scum I nailed her and her team.

Once in the last 5 games? How can you possibly like those odds?

One of the time before that she was a doctor and got lynched by the majority because she "unclaimed" doctor after hammering a townie and posting some scummy shit.

Well first, its in Adel's head. Second, that doesnt explain the other three times. 1 out of 4 times there was an excuse, so all 4 examples are out of the picture now?

[Elias_the_thief]

*if in anyones head that is.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah....or...we could lynch you for being scummy as shit.

[Elias_the_thief]

yeah....or...we could lynch you for being scummy as shit.

You will first need a majority for that, kid.

says who >.<
i r dayvig

[Elias_the_thief]

The most recent exchanges gave me town vibes from both ABR and Elias. On the other hand CoolBot is overwhelmingly on top with his defeatist "I'm expendable" comment.

what about that exchange possibly gave you a town feel about ABR...the part where he admitted that he was bullshitting that entire case, or the bullshitted case itself?

[Elias_the_thief]

The most recent exchanges gave me town vibes from both ABR and Elias. On the other hand CoolBot is overwhelmingly on top with his defeatist "I'm expendable" comment.

I disagree.

with the entire post or just one of the statements made?

@Elias:
ABR just seems genuine in his efforts, even though it is somewhat twisted and may very well be wrong. And this is a significant improvement over his play earlier in the day where he had displayed no interest at all.

He seems genuine in his efforts? What kind of BS is that? If a scum is genuine in his efforts to quicklynch a townie, is that a town tell? If the answer is no (which it better be) then why is being genuine in leading a completely baseless wagon on obvioulsy terrible meta when all of your arguments have been soundly defeated without proper response possibly a town tell either?

Guys, ABR is pretty obviously the scummiest as of right now. the case against Adel is nonexistent, essentially. Coolbot asked for a claim which isnt really that scummy. How are there only like 4 people seeing this? (insert retarded ABR response to the rhetorical question here)

[Elias_the_thief]

It's not that you said that ABR was town SS (silent speaker, SS will be used in future), it was that you gave idiocy as the main reason for him being scummy and listed Coolbot as being scummy for being not in the towns best interests. I simply wanted to point out that ABR was guilty of the same, and more, and therefore a better lynch candidate.

And, I want to add for emphasis:

Coolbot asked for a claim which isnt really that scummy.

Untrue. It is extremely scummy. The word you seek is 'rolefishing'.

I'll have to quote my good friend IH on this one...

Rolefishing is fishing for someones role. It's called fishing because it recquires subtlety. When you grab a shotgun and start firing into the water, thats not fishing.

He wasn't rolefishing, he was asking for a claim at a reasonable time...are you trying to say that all reasonable requests for claims are now fishing?

[Elias_the_thief]

Well, I do not plan on hammering. The case against Coolbot is ridiculously small for a lynch.

[Elias_the_thief]

I stand by my ABR attacks. ABR is an idiot, and his play was suspicious. I'm curious as to why you're looking at me as opposed to players that were advocating the Coolbot lynch based on NOTHING. Thats who Ive got my eye on today, once I reread.

[Elias_the_thief]

I stand by my ABR attacks. ABR is an idiot, and his play was suspicious. I'm curious as to why you're looking at me as opposed to players that were advocating the Coolbot lynch based on NOTHING. Thats who Ive got my eye on today, once I reread.

I was hoping you might respond to this...i dont understand why you attacked me and ignored the people on the coolbot wagon. Wagoning a townie to death is a lot more suspicious than attacking a player without success only to find after his nightkill that hes town. Please explain your actions.

[Elias_the_thief]

(to shafted)

[Elias_the_thief]

havent reread yet.

[Elias_the_thief]

I finally had a chance to reread Day 1 with an eye for Adel connections, and I noticed this.

wait, farside, what unvote and lack of doing anything are you talking about? Last I checked Adels vote was on ABR, though a post may have gone by when it wasnt...

Anyways, I thought this Adel wagon was just some random thing that ABR pulled our of his ass, I didnt realize it was a retarded ongoing campaign of ruining games without reason. Not only is it worthy of a policy lynch in my opinion, Adels responses basically destroyed anything he was trying to say, as he called momentum stopping scummy, and at the same time was trying to get the game abandoned. Not to mention that the creation of a baseless wagon on Adel totally derails the only activity that we had going at the time. So yeah.

unvote, vote: ABR

The rationale behind this vote makes it pretty clear to me that this is a case of Chainsaw Defense, which is not only a Tarhalindur Standard Tell (see the Wiki page linked in my sig for explanation) but also the most reliable of the Standard Tells at this time. What's more, it's Chainsaw Defense

for a known scum

, which is even more damning.

I need to PBPA Elias, but I don't really have time for any full PBPA's right now. In the meantime...

Unvote, Vote: Elias_the_Thief

You know, there's a reason no one has heard of your "standard tells". Its because theyre unreliable. Show me evidence that town doesnt do this just as much if they feel the attacked is undeserving of the attack.

[Elias_the_thief]

I find that insulting people tends to come from scum.

I think I could go with a Elias lynch.

where did i insult him? I wasnt frustrated at all, I simply pointed out that his tell is faulted and asked for evidence to back it up. I've got plenty of evidence against it *points to Tars 6-12 town record*

Also, I am always abrasive, but I didnt feel that I was particularly abrasive or insulting in that post...is someone just looking for an easy wagon to push, to draw attention away from the fact that he didnt contribute anything yesterday?

[Elias_the_thief]

*points to Tars 6-12 town record*

That is not evidence. If you find proof that this particular tell was the cause for most/all the losses, then you might have a point. Otherwise, it's completely irrelevant.

So wait, you accept his tell without ANY evidence that it has EVER been reliable? And when he says its one of his standard tells? Um, given his town record, he is obviously not a good scumhunter, and his tells obviously DONT WORK.

My take on what you did was that you were being insulting.

Oh, thats a real good reason to suspect someone. "I

felt

that he was being insulting". So? You cant judge my alignment on how you feel, you judge it on my intentions. I did not intend to be insulting. Anyways, being insulting is NOT a scumtell for me. See: Mini 486 (starting at about post 1227) and Mini 495. Both town, both insulting, both wins.

[Elias_the_thief]

Yeah, thats why I actually read a few of his losses. Thats not how it is. Actually do some research and you'd see that. Further, you still havent addressed my point that your accepting his tell without any evidence of its reliability.

Further, I've just proven that your insulting tell doesnt work for me. Its still your move.

[Elias_the_thief]

meant "you're" not "your"

[Elias_the_thief]

(in the first paragraph)
sorry for multiple posts

[Elias_the_thief]

Further, I've just proven that your insulting tell doesnt work for me. Its still your move.

You have not proven it. If you did it only twice as town, but every game as scum it would still classify as a scum-tell.

Um...I've proven that i do it as town. Therefore, whether or not I do it as scum is irrelevant. Its a null tell. So therefore your tell has been proven ineffective for me, unless you feel that using nulltells is a good way to catch scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

And I've done it more than twice, but I'm not going to post links to my entire game history. If youre that dedicated (which I know youre not, as you didnt do your research on Tar) then go ahead and look them up.

[Elias_the_thief]

vote: xtom

[Elias_the_thief]

*xtoxm

[Elias_the_thief]

To anyone not paying attention, reasons for voting Xtoxm:

Given the fact that I've completely trumped his insult tell, as well as showed tars tell against me to be unreliable, I find xtoxms persistance towards my lynch without any good reason voteworthy, especially when coupled with the fact that he's said he'd be willing to lynch other people as well, with equally nonexistent or weak reasons.

[Elias_the_thief]

Not to mention his lack of scumhunting or useful contribution.

[Elias_the_thief]

L-2 = claim

(usually)

you had 3 votes...

[Elias_the_thief]

Ok, I took the liberty of rereading from page 13 on. A couple of things of interest :

Ok, so I don't like Coolbot, Adel, or ABR. However, given claims and relationships, I think ABR's the most likely town. Adel and Coolbot are both almost definitely scum, but the amount of buddying Coobot's

Yeah, this is very interesting. I'd like an explanation as well, as to what "relationships" made ABR seem so town.

[Elias_the_thief]

Explain to me why.

[Elias_the_thief]

(you dont like the reaction. I already know you have no reasons for wanting my lynch)

[Elias_the_thief]

FOS to Gorrad. You shouldnt be THAT sure a claim is false just because you would claim that. Doesnt change the fact that the role may exist. The premature claim is fishy though, which is why my vote is still there, but I dont see how the claim can take you from not voting to voting him.

[Elias_the_thief]

So, I reread up to 12 and thought that Ecto looks sketchy for his derailing of the Surye wagon. So I then looked at the most recent couple of pages and realized that he had not posted. So using my powers of looking at the front page, I discovered that Ecto had been replaced by Gorrad. This, of course, blew my mind. I had thought that Gorrad was scummy over the last few pages! So this is quite an interesting development in my actually paying attention to this game. One thing that threw me off was his second to last post of Day 1, where he accuses Adel of possibly bussing coolbot. Adel turned up scum the next day, so im not sure of what to think about that. Anyways, I just felt like bringing up this little revelation in light of the recent comment of Gorrad about having "role-based info" to explain his doubt of the Xtoxm claim. And thats my two cents.

On another interesting note, I'd like to return to the Surye wagon just a second and look at one of the major factors in its demise, which is Adel. Adel has turned up scum. Makes you wonder why Adel's spirited attack died away for an ill-reasoned vote as soon as the wagon on Surye started to get serious.

[Elias_the_thief]

Hmm, missed Kisons above post when writing mine, he has saved me the trouble of quoting the Adel unvote and vote for bad reason I was talking about. So see above.

[Elias_the_thief]

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

so.... still not seeing where this is a good idea...

proven scum that started the wagon jumped off for no good reason when it got serious? How is that not good enough reason?

unvote, vote: surye

[Elias_the_thief]

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

so.... still not seeing where this is a good idea...

proven scum that started the wagon jumped off for no good reason when it got serious? How is that not good enough reason?

unvote, vote: surye

Proven town tried to derail it too. And? It wasn't until coolbot started playing bad that the wagon on me derailed. Adel's play absolved her of any responsibility if I had been lynched, and shown as town.

Um...the proven town wasn't the one who started it, and also had better reasons to jump off then a delayed reaction to a dumb joke, which was Adel's reason. Adel didnt go to the coolbot wagon from you actually, so I dunno how thats connected to Adel jumping off your wagon at all. I'm not even sure what youre trying to say at the end.

Pickem, when you get back, examples of your meta?

[Elias_the_thief]

What did Elias do again?

Good question. I "was insulting". Having played with me, I'm sure you know how much that means

Yeah, PEG I showed some pretty good logic for the surye wagon. The only thing you posted against it is a vague meta on Adel which you havent backed up, despite the fact that I asked for game numbers. So yeah...

[Elias_the_thief]

Pickem:

its a game of mafia. asking for hard evidence on every day 2 wagon is ridiculous. Logic theres plenty of. Adel started this wagon, and jumped off when it got serious. The reason for jumping off was obviously contrived as it was a delayed reaction to a joke post. In fact, she had posted I think twice before she responded to the joke post and jumped off. Then Adel came up as scum. Does that not read as a classic distance wagon gone wrong?

And I highly doubt that one game is enough to get any reliable meta on her. I mean, she changes basically every game, and you cant even show that the play she exhibited in that game is any sort of trend as opposed to something she did once.

That's a factor, yes, but it's not the only thing.

Translation: My only given reason for suspecting him has fallen but I dont want to admit it so I will now make references to my own secret reasons which you cant know. At least until I think of them.

[Elias_the_thief]

Define "like this".

[Elias_the_thief]

And also, what game. I'm pretty sure I was NKed night one in the game i was in with you and you never got to see the full extent of my playstyle anyhow.

[Elias_the_thief]

It has not fallen out, it stands.

You're silly. Try reading the links to games I posted where I've shown that being insulting is an integral part of my play as town and scum, making it a null tell when applied to me and completely useless.

Ah, now you mention that you vigged me when I was town. We should obviously bow down to your meta because you clearly have a good grasp of how I play.

And you just generally look scummy to me.

Why. Stop bullshitting and tell me what it is about my play that you find scummy.

[Elias_the_thief]

Xtoxm just has secret reasons for finding people scummy is all. Surye is my lynch of choice.

[Elias_the_thief]

1. I would like Surye to claim
2. Vote: Xtoxm for now until the Surye wagon dissipates, in which case I will likely switch my vote to Elias.

Lulz

[Elias_the_thief]

i have no idea how in hell you get the idea that pickem is town. he hasnt added anything to the conversation besides a defense of you. I'm not saying i think hes scum, but what could have possibly given a town read? Please explain.

[Elias_the_thief]

so yeah.

unvote

. I guess my next wagon candidate would be gorrad. and perhaps tar after that.

[Elias_the_thief]

Nothing about shafted rings scum to me...these new claims mean i need to reread. but yeah this game is getting a lot better.

[Elias_the_thief]

Nothing about shafted rings scum to me...these new claims mean i need to reread. but yeah this game is getting a lot bette now

[Elias_the_thief]

Nothing about shafted rings scum to me...these new claims mean i need to reread. but yeah this game is getting a lot better now

[Elias_the_thief]

sorry about that ive been having connection problems all day...mod, please delete any two of those, really doesnt matter which.

[Elias_the_thief]

I seem to remember Rosso playing like this before, but I'm not certain. Anyways, I'm gonna be gone until Monday.

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm here.

[Elias_the_thief]

See: RL problems. I'm back now, but I cant get caught up in all my games at once. Got caught up on the one I'm modding and the mini im in today. I'll get to this at some point, but not today.

[Elias_the_thief]

Huh. Bullshit cases against me eh? I might have an actual post by the end of the day, but its so fuckin hot here id rather be like sitting in front of a fan.we'll see.

[Elias_the_thief]

well i was planning on actual reading before voting.

[Elias_the_thief]

You're my buddy, remember?

I'm not really seeing much scummy from Kison or shafted or TSS, which seem to be the main lynch candidates besides myself. Though admittedly, Shafted play seems distinctly different then from 495. TSS's posts seem characteristic of his playstyle and nothing else.

Anyone want to actually present a case on me?

[Elias_the_thief]

Anyone want to actually present a case on me?

[Elias_the_thief]

Both? *raised eyebrow* I dont think I defended rosso. I said that I had seen him play like that before. I didn't apply a protown of antitown sentiment towards him based off that. Do people really think I would be dumb enough to try to defend my scumbuddy when hes about to be lynched at deadline, especially with such a weak defense?
"My buddys about to be lynched. I know, I'll connect myself to him without accomplishing anything beneficial to my team!"
Ridiculous. Seems to be a bit of reach to lynch me for that. As for Adel, there literally were no good points against her. Given ABRs retarded campaign against her, defending Adel was completely reasonable.

Suspect list kinda:

Nothing impressive from MM.
Kisons jump on RC at deadline seems a bus.
And then theres tar

I want a lynch, but I do NOT want a Rosso lynch (Rosso is acting like Rosso, who would be better off being investigated and/or vigged, and appears to be inactive to boot). I strongly believe that there are multiple mafia on that wagon (probably shaft.ed and Kison).

In the interests of getting a lynch,

Unvote

TSS: content?

---

I dont get the TS lynch at all really. The case on shafted is lacking. I'm more in the TSS lynchin kind of mood, lurkerscum extroadinaire.

vote: TSS

[Elias_the_thief]

Yeah, I know but he still strikes me as scum =/ Maybe my scumdars off or maybe hes played geniusly.

TSS has been around the entire game, and has been more lurking in plain sight than the normal type. Additionally TS claims a reason for absense.

[Elias_the_thief]

- Illogically defended the lonely Coolbot during Day One because he didn't find his continued demand that Surye claim to be scummy. Honestly, who here thinks Coolbot's play surrounding this was smart?

No one has ONCE shown why Coolbots attacks were wrong, or why his attempt to get a claim was wrong. I cant believe im getting lynched for disagreeing with a town tha wont even explain its ridiculous assertions. I especially love your appeal to majority at the end. Real nice touch.

- Winds up gunning for ABR over Adel.

Did you actually read ABR's attacks? They were retarded. Did you actually read what Adel posted about his meta lynching standards against her? My play in regards to this was perfectly justified.

- One of the people actually pushing to

lynch

Surye during Day Two over the dying Surye wagon and Adel's involvement in it. Was a nice thing to look at and keep in mind but hardly lynch worthy. Same goes for Shaft.ed on this one(and possibly others).

What in fucks name made you think I actually wanted Surye lynched over just that? We all know how well pressure works if you say its just pressure

- Only see two or three places where he mentions Rosso Carne. One he says he's scumhunting and looks good. The other he says he thinks he's seen him play like he has before(why was this mentioned? I don't get it).

Dude. NO ONE MENTIONED HIM MORE THAN ONCE OR TWICE. HE DIDNT DO ANYTHING, AND I DIDNT SAY HE LOOKED GOOD I SAID HE APPEARED TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS AND SCUMHUNTING, I HAD HIM NEUTRAL I THINK. THAT WAS LIKE 20 PAGES AGO. And once again, as I've already explained, I DIDNT EVEN SAY IF HE WAS TOWN OR NOT FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME BECAUSE I DIDNT REMEMBER. IT WAS IN NO WAY A DEFENSE, SCUM HAS JUST MADE IT SEEM THAT WAY.

I honestly kind of think Kison is scum right now. Not because he makes a case on me, but because this case is so clearly fabricated its ridiculous. These are all things I've either already answered or things that are being misinterpretted imo purposefully. Kison is too good a player to actually spout this bullshit in good faith.

I know I'm not scum, and TS is doc apparently and TSS is getting NKed. Therefore the remaining candidate is either shafted or kison. I doubt a lynch will get together for Kison in an hour so

unvote, vote: Shafted

[Elias_the_thief]

(note: this is partially because of the comment about my lynch being the only possible one thanks to math. WTF shafted, i thought you were a smarter player than that)

[Elias_the_thief]

Many times it has been explained how Coolbat's demand for a Surye claim was ridiculous. The initial claim was not so much of a problem. It was the continued demand for one after his wagon was no longer existent, and you defended this.

The initial demand for claim was justified, as in he was sufficiently suspicious. Why the fuck does that go away when his scumbuddies jump off the wagon?

ABR is always retarded. Perhaps you were justified in supporting Adel, but it is something I will note nontheless considering she is scum.

But not something that should be evidence against me. Defending Adel WAS THE RIGHT PROTOWN MOVE AT THE TIME as the case against her was shit.

-What in fucks name made you think I actually wanted Surye lynched over just that? We all know how well pressure works if you say its just pressure

This :

So I really need to devote more time to this game.

Can we bandwagon Surye already?

so.... still not seeing where this is a good idea...

proven scum that started the wagon jumped off for no good reason when it got serious?

How is that not good enough reason?

unvote, vote: surye

Perhaps lynched is the wrong word, but your top pick for lynch candidate, AKA bandwagoning, yes. If he was not your top pick, please tell me who was, and where you mentioned that they were your top pick at that time.

Wow...since when have I ever used random bandwagons to support lynching? Have you actually played with me before or no? Why is it my job to keep you informed as to my top candidates for lynching at all times? To me it seems that just tells who I'm willing to be convinced to vote for if they make a BS case. I had no top pick for lynch. My top suspect was Surye but I was in no convinced that I should lynch him.

Wrong :

rosso carne looks good

, leading some attacks and scumhunting and such.

THAT WAS LIKE 20 PAGES AGO. And once again, as I've already explained, I DIDNT EVEN SAY IF HE WAS TOWN OR NOT FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME BECAUSE I DIDNT REMEMBER. IT WAS IN NO WAY A DEFENSE, SCUM HAS JUST MADE IT SEEM THAT WAY.

Well, that's why I asked why you bothered to bring it up...

Because I had a notion to go look it up but I didnt realize how close deadline was.

Feel free to point out the fabrication.

The parts where you include points that werent actually scumtells (by your own admission)in your post against me. Exaggerating the case. Also, claiming I was for the surye lynch on just that. I was for a surye pressure wagon. that is by no means the same as a lynch.

Shafted: I didnt think I could get the support. If you'll vote him too, then

unvote, vote: kison

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias, your comment about Rosso's play elsewhere would not be seen as defensive, but it when you combine it with the lack of a vote on him that makes it very defensive in mine, and other's I'm sure, eyes.

My lack of conclusion from the comment should show that I was undecided. My lack of actual defense or a vote for someone else should show that. I didn't realize how close deadline was and was planning to check the game to see how I felt about him.

[Elias_the_thief]

Vote: Elias

Gorrad: Kison

Lol, I bet youre voting me because I'm too defensive. Or too abrasive. I ahte this site so much

[Elias_the_thief]

Also, my response to Kison was on the last page if it was missed in the flurry of activity.

[Elias_the_thief]

i didnt say scum dumb shit. I said candidate as in lynch candidate. Nice try though

[Elias_the_thief]

I realize this is your townie playstyle and am not voting you for your abrasion, in fact it makes me much less sure about the choice, but I think you are the proper play given the circumstances.

If you know this is my town playstyle why the fuck are you voting me...? If by circumstances you mean your PM says scum then sure.

[Elias_the_thief]

yes...its my town playstyle...i just said that

[Elias_the_thief]

well fuck. I dont want a no lynch.

unvote, vote: Elias_the_Thief

. Fuck this game. Good luck town, you'll need it if you think I'm the scummiest alive.

[Elias_the_thief]

Are you telling me you still think Surye is scum? It's not that Surye necessarily should have claimed. It's that traditionally, when one hits L-2, or when someone feels they're close to being lynched, demanding a claim in order to better gage whether or not that person is scum as a last ditch attempt to prove their innocence is a good move. If the wagon dies and they're no longer in danger of being lynched, it's the Town's responsibility to put them back there if they want that claim. Otherwise, I do not see the point of forcing someone to claim if the Town does not even find them suspicious enough to threaten them with a lynch. It's a very simple concept, brosef.

I found that Suryes actions were still suspicious enough to warrant a claim, and he has claimed since. Your perception of claims is retarded. The claim had already been requested and surye got out of it cheaply, almost certainly thanks to scum interference. If its the towns fucking responsibity to put them back, WHY THE FUCK WAS IT SCUMMY FOR COOLBOT TO ATTEMPT THAT YOU RETARD? Are you saying that people should abandon their suspiciouns if the town doesnt agree.?

Was Adel supported all around? Were those supporting ABR scum? Why should scum support ABR if they can justifiably support their scumbuddy? It's not that you supported Adel with bad reason, it's that you backed her when she was butting heads with ABR. This is hardly damning in itself, but it fits what I would see scum doing. Therefore it is worth noting.

It was the proper protown play. At best its a null tell, therefore not worth noting.

Very well. You didn't think we should lynch him. Did you feel that the bandwagon derailment warranted forcing a claim out of him? How far did you want to bring that wagon? Because my entire point is that the bandwagon derailment, to me, was not as indicative of Surye being scum as you seem to believe. Also, you have implied you suspected him for other reasons. What are those other reasons? I find it funny that you insisted you had those other reasons, and when I pointed out that you only used that derailment as a reason, you dropped that point and turned the focus onto semantics.

I wanted a claim, the same claim that me and coolbot wanted the day before. I never implied other reasons. I was simply using that language since you used it when describing me pursueing a lynch just for that, my argument was that I was no where near intent to lynch.

And I already voted myself. You can fuck off now.

[Elias_the_thief]

Kisonvoters, please unvote, you're standing between the town and a lynch.

Are you usually this obvious around buddies?

[Elias_the_thief]

everyone appears scummy to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

Good luck town, you'll need it, the way youre going.

[Elias_the_thief]

I like how I had Surye pegged and no one would listen to me.