Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!

[the silent speaker]

Vote: Elias the Thief

[the silent speaker]

Shaft.ed, how do you know Depeche Mode listeners don't

like

machine oil in their coffee?

[the silent speaker]

Surye, OMGUS means "I vote you because you voted (or FOSed) me." You FOSing Ecto afer he votes for you is

you

OMGUSing, if anything at all, not him. He voted before you and canot have done that because you were

going

to FOS him. Seriously, I have no idea what you are trying to show by calling attention to his vote; it doesn't look to be any kind of scum tell, from aught I can see.

[the silent speaker]

CoolBot, since Surye is not now in imminent danger of lynch, why do you continue to insist that he claim?

Ecto, is there any reason to the CoolBot bandwagon besides "he wanted Surye to claim, let's see how he likes it"?

[the silent speaker]

Not always, Mach, but yeah, it's not a particularly bold and daring thing to say, unembellished. Unless, Albert, you meant that there are more scum on the wagon than (pro rata) off it? Which is an ineresting idea I'd like to see you elaborate on, especially as there are a number of comments from CoolBot of late that frankly give me the screaming widgies. (No, I'm not voting CoolBot, partly because I have him at L-2; and partly because scum are going to play in whatever way they think will best convince the town that they themselves are town and so are not any likelier than townies to give other players the screaming widgies just for the hell of it. OTOH, scummy behavior is scummy behavior, so I'm not disregarding my screaming widgies altogether just yet. It should also be noted that 'screaming widgies' is fun to type. Screaming widgies.)

[the silent speaker]

EBWOP and I see he's actually at L-3.

[the silent speaker]

A happy Passover to one and all.

[the silent speaker]

Unvote, vote: CoolBot

. The last few pages have left me with the impression there may be a link between CoolBot and Albert, and I strongly dislike CoolBot's banging the drums for a claim; claiming is of its very nature a last resort, good sir.

Adel seems pro-town though the unvote is worth noting; Albert's "me or her" thing cuts no ice with me and in fact makes him seem mildly scummier.

Hunch: there is a scum among farside and the farside bandwagon, but probably not more than one.

[the silent speaker]

Because idiocy is not a hangng offense, Elias, whereas pushing people to do what is not in the town's best interests is one. Claiming is not in the town's best interests as long as the claimant has non-claiming options. Most especially so in a meta-breaking game.

[the silent speaker]

Um...so are you telling me that pushing a completely baseless wagon on Adel even when it has completely died down IS in the towns best interests? Are you telling me that suggesting we abandon the game is in the town's best interests? Are you telling me that lying and using shotty logic to push the aforementioned baseless wagon is in the towns best interest? Especially when calling for the Adel lynch derailed what little activity we had and distracted from the wagons at hand? Asking for a claim seems like a VERY small offense when compared to what ABR has exhibited.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I did say I thought Albert and CoolBot possibly linked. I also believe I said that I thought Adel was town and the way Albert was gong after her was negative points to Albert. In short, I am saying that I believe Albert B. Rampage to be a fair candidate for scum, i.e. exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of saying.

But CoolBot's line about being more expendable than Adel... I don't see how a person can read that and not think that CoolBot knows that Adel is not scum (else he would not be,

to himself

, more expendable). CoolBot has no pro-town powers, by his own admission, so he can know this through exactly one avenue.

[the silent speaker]

And, I want to add for emphasis:

Coolbot asked for a claim which isnt really that scummy.

Untrue. It is extremely scummy. The word you seek is 'rolefishing'.

[the silent speaker]

Will conduct a reread soon, with special attention to who Albert thought was scum. Since his loudest suspect was a goon who died the same night as he did, his death may well have been connected with his suspicions. (If Albert hinted at cop or vig powers, that would be sufficient cause in itself, but I don't recall him doing that.)

[the silent speaker]

Note for later: if Kison and farside are both scum, then Mach is scum with them. I need the time to go over who they two suspect and who suspected them, especially in light of Tar's idea, to decide what, if anything, is the consequence of one of them being scum (and which).

[the silent speaker]

It took me a moment -- Gorrad, did you read my post as implying that one of Kison and farside must be scum? Because it was not my intent to imply this. I didn't mention the both-town possibility simply because it's the other possibilities with the juicy implications.

Rosso:

I honeslty don't think that the coolbot wagon is anywhere near the place to look for scum. He did some scummy shit, flat out, and that means people SHOULD lynch him.

This is bad logic, and I say that as someone who stands by his CoolBot vote.

[the silent speaker]

Will post large substantive tldr when finals are over.

[the silent speaker]

Finals are over now so I can post good content soon. Insofar as the wagon's intent is to "force a claim out of Surye" I do not support it -- I maintain that forcing claims is not what a bandwagon is for, which is not to say that a claim made to avert impending doom can't be a useful tool. (It can be, and is.) Insofar as the wagon is premised on Elias's reasoning I like it much better, but I note the following:
1. Tar found a possible tie between Elias and Adel.
2. Elias found a possible tie between Surye and Adel.
3. Both Tar and Elias agree that Surye is scummy.

Something doesn't add up among those three. Not voting yet, until I can get that sorted out.

[the silent speaker]

PEG, how does that follow? Does she never do that to scum as scum?

[the silent speaker]

I endorse that Gorrad plan, with the proviso that Xtoxm also targets Gorrad. However, I'd caution you that some cops get "he's dead, Jim" when true regardless of sanity, as a safeguard against using the nightkill to determine sanity (intentionally or otherwise); so until you build up some living results, and then one of tose dies, don't rule out the possibility of insane and paranoid just yet.

I believe that he did kill Adel, and thus is not mafia (of her faction), pending a counterclaim.

[the silent speaker]

Let me know when you want me to vote Gorrad.

[the silent speaker]

I wouldn't consider it bastardmoddery as long as there are no disadvantages to the role -- it's basically a naive cop with no risk of getting an innocent read on a scum -- but I think Gorrad needs to get voted regardless of which he is, unless we want to just assume he's the SK and allow him to live so long as his kills are directed. Dunno if that would be a great idea though, though I tend to like that sort of risk-taking.

[the silent speaker]

... 10 alive. 2 kills, 1 lynch, 7 alive. 2 kills, 1 lynch, 4 alive. If we let him live, we can do it for ONE day and one day only.

[the silent speaker]

If you see that I sided with Adel over ABR, yeah, I backed the wrong pony there. In some slight defense, I believe Elias and farside (now Toaster) did too, so at least that's not unique to me.

I was looking through farside's posts and I saw some things that bugged me. I'll try to put up a proper case over the coming week.
Elias I'm neutralish on. Will reread him.
I don't think a pickem wagon is likely to be helpful.

[the silent speaker]

I have too voted. I'm aware that I haven't been playing all that deeply in this game, but I haven't been quite as bad as you're making me out to be.

Besides, the "keep Gorrad alive, one day only" plan which you're now endorsing was my idea. If I were scum, would I have lost anything by keeping my mouth shut?

What's IIoA?

[the silent speaker]

You were the fourth person on my scumdar (which was listed in order of scumminess). That's a bit of an overreaction there.

Possibly, but better that than an underreaction, neh? For me

and

you.

What I'd like to know is why did you not put up a post during the Rosso bandwagon?

Because it built up on a Friday afternoon.

TSS - who's the scum?

Pending a detailed reread, farside. Maybe Elias after that. I think indications indicate that Mach is not maf.

Gorrad, Kison, why are you voting to lynch the claimed cop?

[the silent speaker]

And you have two posts on site in the thick of it with nothing here if I'm not mistaken.

I can

post

on Fridays. I can't post Friday evenings and Saturdays. On Fridays I don't have time for much beyond surface extemporanea that I happen to notice, because the oncoming Sabbath gives time constraints. So I will make some short posts (depending on how early the sun sets) but not extensive comments. I happened not to make a short post in this thread that day; it's not beyond the pale of possibility that I forgot to check the thread altogether.

[the silent speaker]

FOS: Toaster Strudel

Consider this the equivalent of a vote that doesn't want to hammer until Toaster has had a chance to respond.

[the silent speaker]

EBWOP: Of the people who have been named as potential hits (assuming Toaster is lynched) I disapprove of targeting pickem and myself, for reasons that should be obvious, and shaft.ed, because if Gorrad wants shaft.ed dead and he's anti-town that is likelier to hurt us than help us. I prefer Elias to Kison, I think, but would be okay with either even though I think shaft.ed is trying to disclaim a little more responsibility for his Kison FOS than he quite has a right to*.

*-- Yes, shaft.ed, you put in probabilistic modifiers, so it wasn't an absolute pronouncement from on high. But that's the equivalent of pinning your statement on the definition of "is", and besides, who can make an absolute pronouncement from on high? Cop or scum, and I don't think you're claiming either.

[the silent speaker]

One thing I should say, even if I was SK'd I'd be scumhunting.

This is true, and in fact some elements of the voting record make me a bit more suspicious of shaft.ed, but I think they should be discussed in open forum tomorrow rather than making a unilateral decision on him. Better to vig Kison, I think, if Elias is being ruled out for limited access reasons, and if the combined deaths of TS and Kison don't end the game we will be able to judge shaft.ed on a firmer footing over your (Gorrad's) lynchday.

P.S. There is a Jewish holiday in the first half of next week. Expect limited access from me between now and then; any night choices I might have have been pre-sent as a precaution (this should be taken neither as confirmation nor denial of the presence of any night choices in actual fact).

[the silent speaker]

When did Kison get added to the short list?

There are only ten people alive in the game. Any list is short. I already outlined in my last post what I think of the choices for Gorrad's hit that have been propounded so far, and Kison is on there.

[the silent speaker]

My top three for the next few deaths:
1. TS
2. Elias
3. Kison

Ten alive:
Kison
Surye
the silent speaker
Tarhalindur
Gorrad (r. Ectomancer day 1 page 19)
shaft.ed
pickemgenius
elias_the_thief
Toaster Strudel (r. farside22 day 2 page 30)
Machiavellian-Mafia

Of those, we know that Surye, Tar, Gorrad, and PEG are not the last mafiae. I know that I'm not, and I surmise that Mach is not, which leaves four people, three of them named above. (The fourth, shaft.ed, is one I want to save for tomorrow and the next day*, because I feel there is a significant case waiting to be made and it deserves a full day's attention.) On the basis of game size I posit that there are two remaining mafiae, so the deaths of two will either expose the last two as obvious, or reveal which person the last scum was defending which in turn will enable a sounder case against that scum.

* -- Remember that tomorrow is -- eventually -- Gorrad's lynch irrespective of today's and tomorrow's happenings, unless the game ends without getting that far.

[the silent speaker]

Vote: Elias

Gorrad: Kison

[the silent speaker]

Therefore the remaining candidate is either shafted or kison.

"Either", scum? Why so sure there's only one left?

[the silent speaker]

Actually, the most important thing on my mind was getting in a vote under the wire to lynch someone in my top few. But it's not playstyle that put you on the short list, if that makes you feel any better.

Gorrad, if you kill me, when I come up town I want you to push shaft.ed. Push him hard, since I will no longer be able to.

[the silent speaker]

Gorrad should be lynched. Shaft.ed should be backed up against the wall before day ends so his lynch subsequently will be expedited.

[the silent speaker]

Mach, Tar and Gorrad need to move their votes pronto, or none of this will matter.

[the silent speaker]

Kisonvoters, please unvote, you're standing between the town and a lynch.