Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[Remilia Scarlet]

Have you never seen scum-Muffin shit up a thread arguing with the likes of Nero Cain? (He does this as town, too, but still).

uh, yeah, he did it to me in Touhou 2 as scum and I sniffed it out immediately. were you a replace-in in that one?

[Remilia Scarlet]

it’s that you’re unusually comfortable with it

i've been comfortable w/ Morph too 95% of the game, but they've done things that I don't grok or empathize w/ occasionally and I push them on it when they do

muffin hasn't done that

[Remilia Scarlet]

er would you like to clarify by asking muffin directly if that’s what he was doing or are you comfortable just knowing that’s what happened?

there's literally no fucking way he just decided to send nacho a PM for the hell of it right as I happened to be waiting for a response for one, but sure:

@Muffin: what was 7221 about

[Remilia Scarlet]

It feels like rn you’re working backwards from knowing he’s town

what exactly is my motivation to do this w/ muffin vs morph who is a 1000% easier write-off to literally everyone

[Remilia Scarlet]

Was that GiF's game, with the Rap battle ending?

nah wrong game

sec

[Remilia Scarlet]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=45635

[Remilia Scarlet]

we were both in the game but i replaced out before you replaced in i think

[Remilia Scarlet]

Well, that’s a false dilemma, since it would be important for scum you and even town you to navigate them both fairly carefully my guess was that you were creating a false trail for muffin as partner if you got killed earlier before men etc

except that i was keeping it up today before you called objection to it

[Remilia Scarlet]

Why don’t you mind that Muffin thinks it’s just you and has stated as much?

I had to go back and find this, but if you're referring to 7187 i kinda felt like the writing was on the wall for me and was focusing more on getting my reads out there.
But that's also a lot different tone than something like 7319 which i'll admit made me lose my shit

[Remilia Scarlet]

Like i’m waffling with this interaction and I know that’s exactly what scum you would be hoping for and it’s like I don’t have reasons that are clicking into place that are a better narrative for a potential town but you seem so clear eyed. How you’re even talking to me is weird because you’re arguing rather than seemingly trying to read me.

Why can't I be doing both? I think your approach to dealing with me today is extremely weird and a lot of it has to do w/ the clarification behind your assertion that I'm being too soft on muffin

so like, that's where we are right now

[Remilia Scarlet]

It is, frankly beyond weird that not a single thing about muffin has pinged you.

Muffin didn't enter a high tier in my townreads until pretty late D1, so empirically this isn't the case.

What

should

my progression on muffin have been on D3? It's really easy to say that I'm giving him too free of a pass but like on some level you need to disagree with the read in order for to take such large umbrage when you did.

[Remilia Scarlet]

i have no idea what you're trying to say

you're not addressing or weaving through anything i have to say you're just making generalizations and lobbying

[Remilia Scarlet]

Morph do bork’s reads develop this way normally where he just slaps down positions without going into detail without being pushed.

like what are you even talking about here

[Remilia Scarlet]

You would have to ignore a significant number of my posts to think i’m scum this game

but if I don't think Muffin's scum this game, that's a problem?

@ST in particular since I feel you've on on record w/ a similar stance that Bell is taking toward himself: I want to know what you think Bell is talking about here

[Remilia Scarlet]

Answering questions is secondary to me than proactively trying to understand and solve.

again, where is your seam between argument and interrogation?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Sorry if i’m being annoying I don’t mean to be.

it's mafia; as far as I'm concerned this shit doesn't leave the game for me unless shit goes way over the line

[Remilia Scarlet]

No I just think you’d have more doubts if you weren’t scum. /:

I understand this sentiment as a general principle. Obviously I don't have to read someone i know isn't on my team.

I feel like you're just kind of erroneously applying it to a situation because you don't agree with the conclusion and I'm trying to figure out why

[Remilia Scarlet]

Could I get a Cabd read on Bork and Muffin.
I don't think that the emotional line on Bork is quite right given I think he is staying within the line emotionally of what he finds morally acceptable play and I agree with that evaluation as to the morally acceptable play if I were scum in his shoes.

dude this is some weak ass shit

think he is staying within the line emotionally of what he finds morally acceptable play

this is my stance on literally everything in every game ever

Not sure what morally acceptable means in this context or why it's somehow alignment indicative

[Remilia Scarlet]

nah one sec

[Remilia Scarlet]

Might have been a scum slip that Bork said that he feels the alien is in the NAR block slot because he'd be in the neighborhood and April would be dead otherwise.

i mean this isn't how NAR works at all but not relevant:

more importantly is that it's horribly reachy in that it's 1) a pretty obvious assumption to make and 2) i am not the first one to suggest it

[Remilia Scarlet]

I am pretty nuts Bell, but like the chance that you are scum is like smaller than the chance that I misread our role PM and we’re scum

-innocentvillager

this was why i was asking

[Remilia Scarlet]

scum repeat rhetoric and dodge (and hey, not only scum do this, but you know that)

VOTE: bell

[Remilia Scarlet]

You can hammer me in elo.

that's not how my role works lol

[Remilia Scarlet]

Bottom line is he feels so similar to how he was in that game I played with him I forgot the number.

not sure that's commensurate with the level of read that I quoted, but I know you didn't make that post

[Remilia Scarlet]

If you get a revive and mulligan you’re not an alien.

what does this have to do w/ hammering you

[Remilia Scarlet]

I frankly think IV is in a similar boat? He’s just latching on to his familiar faces (much like we all are) and bell happens to be one of them

i mean he literally said "i think you're more town than I am"; I feel like you should have something more than "vague meta" backing it up

[Remilia Scarlet]

Presumably morph would vote me with you being confirmed town and unless I’m mistaken, that would mean you would hammer me.

Please vote this right this second

there's no way this statement makes sense from town

[Remilia Scarlet]

Like in order for there to be a world where I hammer specifically him in ELO he'd have had to be proven to be scum

[Remilia Scarlet]

I’m not even going to explain the emotional resonance failure that rem has here

i have no doubt

[Remilia Scarlet]

Is your read on muffin really that you just agree with him and his thoughts a bunch? I can’t conceptualize how day 3 you have a read based on that premise.

[Remilia Scarlet]

Just go with muffin’s plan dude.

muffin's plan in particular had you not having to interact with my role at all

[Remilia Scarlet]

Oh yeah. I didn’t realize that. Lmao.

[Remilia Scarlet]

just not gonna engage w/ the name calling. not sure what you're trying to say but i'm not about that shit anymore at this point in my career, even if you're just trying to be acerbic so i disengage

[Remilia Scarlet]

I don’t get why scum bell would go aggro here this is not a good idea on how to play this as scum at all

We’re in a game of survivor at this point, you don’t go around poking at the alliances

i think the facade is just starting to crack

[Remilia Scarlet]

Or we let Bork decide who he wants in cylo and to hammer him

Or we let Bork decide who he wants in cylo and to hammer him

If bork makes it to xylo, I like this.

this is giving me major hives

the only people who want this is either 1) scum low on my kill list or 2) town that is convinced w/o a shadow of a doubt that i am scum

[Remilia Scarlet]

no, it's not "if bork's town, town loses" in that scenario, it's "if bell is scum, town loses" - the rest of the game is literally just eliminating everything other than 1 town read which is really all that's required here

this is that townread

[Remilia Scarlet]

It's an insane amount of pressure on town-Bork to get this right though.

my head is already going in circles wondering why it's being suggested

[Remilia Scarlet]

The only thing that makes me comfortable at all about this is that the player who's suggesting it is planning to be today's elim.

Bork?

I want you to explain in your own words why you think this is a good idea

[Remilia Scarlet]

If that's what it takes to keep people from lining shit up w/o any further analysis then yes

but this still seems like a false dilemma to me

[Remilia Scarlet]

The only thing that makes me comfortable at all about this is that the player who's suggesting it is planning to be today's elim.

Bork?

I want you to explain in your own words why you think this is a good idea

If you're not scum then I think eliminating the players you think are scum between now and xylem increases the chances that we never get to xylem. Worst case, we still lose because you pick town to hammer you. If you are scum, then there's no way you can win this game unless two town players decide to vote each other instead of you in xylem.

ugh.
this is like all of my worst nightmares

[Remilia Scarlet]

I guess my thoughts are that if we're wrong now it's going to be hard to come back from that

{Muffin}
{Morph}
{ST}
{Bell}

is where i'm at atm T-S

[Remilia Scarlet]

just really don't want to be the fucking reason we lose after all this

[Remilia Scarlet]

No, I understand your position now.

If we can really, really trust muffin, and I've been continually betting the game on that, then I guess this would work

[Remilia Scarlet]

what?

[Remilia Scarlet]

this basically only blows up if ST is scum?

can we have muffin instead of ST?

[Remilia Scarlet]

like you're not really relying on me to make a choice so i think you should just try to do what muffin said and isolate a townie (and i think it's him). who shows up after that should be immaterial

I think i'm finally on the same page as he is other than the personnel

[Remilia Scarlet]

in order to lose we basically have to pick the one person who isn't town to be the "town" member of this

[Remilia Scarlet]

Bell should be, too, because he's 100% convinced you're scum. And Bell's your greatest scumread.

this should basically not be relevant. I think muffin is the read I am 100% least likely to waffle on at this point.

[Remilia Scarlet]

Bell should be, too, because he's 100% convinced you're scum. And Bell's your greatest scumread.

this should basically not be relevant. I think muffin is the read I am 100% least likely to waffle on at this point.

Who else, then?

probably ST and I'm not going to explain why.

[Remilia Scarlet]

@Morph are you set on muffin? If so then there's really fucking little point to dithering any more

[Remilia Scarlet]

why bother the day's just gonna go two weeks anyway

sure lol

[Remilia Scarlet]

but you didn't answer my Q

[Remilia Scarlet]

...

[Remilia Scarlet]

if this ends the game we can talk more, if not honestly i'm pretty fucking upset

[Remilia Scarlet]

you basically asked me who i'd want to be around in ELO and proceeded to totally ignore it

[Remilia Scarlet]

still town, still don't want muffin elimed

whatever

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: Morph

[Remilia Scarlet]

i will be after this manhattan

[Remilia Scarlet]

Can't wait to see y'all try to adjust to scumhunting w/o this conversation crutch tomorrow after I'm gone

[Remilia Scarlet]

flurggghhh

[Remilia Scarlet]

Not doing it. I'll take muffin at ELO or something else can deal w/ it.

[Remilia Scarlet]

someone*

[Remilia Scarlet]

I would prefer ST to be the non-hammerer at Borklo at this point.

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: Morph

[Remilia Scarlet]

prod diggity dodge

[Remilia Scarlet]

can we like either do the plan or you elim me today and reset?

this is stupid and it's breeding apathy

[Remilia Scarlet]

like you can't all be scum

Morph is dragging for ???
Bell is posturing against the "he hammers" part of the plan because of course he is and i can't fucking wait until tomorrow when i get to deal with that
I still think ST is the one least likely to flip scum here but I'm definitely going to do my best to reevaluate tomorrow

but this is fucking stupid

do the fucking plan or vote me. you don't get to do neither

[Remilia Scarlet]

bell has put himself in a position where either is a natural a natural state for him

i'm curious as to how everyone else gets there

[Remilia Scarlet]

#5013: Not following. If you mean why I'm trying to position to not be the one that's hammering or prefers it that way it's just how I am. Shameless town with 100% odds of winning if you don't have an I win scum button is marvelous and I don't know why more town aren't arguing to be in that position.

nah i'm saying you could swap over to me at this point and not have to be accountable as to why

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm sticking to the plan and hoping you don't have an I win button in melo.

i mean if ST is town then yes, i do

[Remilia Scarlet]

Has it occurred to you that I'm town

Yes? in a bubble it's not a good way to read you

The only modification I would like is to keep exactly to the muffin plan.

good

[Remilia Scarlet]

i wasn't being clear - the hammer at ELO plan; personnel is something to have a dance about

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm sure he'd agree

[Remilia Scarlet]

Insert photoshopped consent meme, I don't, here.

If we do intend to go through with braindedtoxylotheplan, then let's get on with it.

Both heads of this hydra expect fuckery and have already written the loss off.

???????????????????????

[Remilia Scarlet]

i think this might just be the win

[Remilia Scarlet]

In my heart of hearts, though, I expect ratfuckery that utterly destroys our xylo plans.

like what

because that's 100% worth talking about if you think it _should_ affect how we handle today

[Remilia Scarlet]

on a scale of 1 to helpful that gets a

[Remilia Scarlet]

I realize I have to go back a bit to get your endorsement of the plan but 8023 really seems like a "I was against this from the beginning but you fuckers wouldn't listen" sort of post, and the "I've already written the loss off" is a really bad look in lieu of having attempted to do anything else; we've been in stalemate for what, two weeks?

[Remilia Scarlet]

I feel like this is all for the benefit of setting up a Morph/Bell/ST that has more freedom of movement

p-edit: ok i need to process this

[Remilia Scarlet]

And scum must have a counter

why do you think this given what we've observed? we pretty much exactly know what scum is capable of unless you think they're hiding a hidden reactionary ability in addition to what we've seen, which seems super unlikely in ANY setup

unless you think it's maid and this is some factional nonsense

[Remilia Scarlet]

If you're town and you genuinely think the game ends with our elim, then yes, that convo gets to happen. I think we all have shit to say about how this game has evolved/devolved.

this is a post game convo. this is not what we're doing right now

[Remilia Scarlet]

I think you need to take a deep breath, reset and think about who you want to hammer

If you're town then I pledged in 8012 to do exactly that. That is a bridge town-you needs to trust me to cross.

hadn't been so determined to exit and let his plan unroll, we would not have voted him yesterday.

I thought you were reading his being ardent about the plan as a towntell.

No, you know what fucking sucks about this?

I was fairly certain muffin was town and instead of being able to fall back on being convinced of that he's fucking dead and i get to deal w/ people pulling on my heartstrings about more nuanced shit that i'm more likely to fuck up.

incoming bell careening in to tell me that i couldn't possibly have townread muffin and in order to townread him i'd have to know
which is fucking stupid

[Remilia Scarlet]

does it make sense to you that one bad nk plus the lightning rod could basically ensure other night kills take precedence over you for the final 2 nights of the game?

not sure what you're trying to argue here

[Remilia Scarlet]

I don't think this takes us anywhere useful. The main thing I want to convey, if this game progresses according to play, is that ST is not my strongest townread. It's so weird to be townreading notsci and having reservations about IV, but that's where I'm at and that's the one thing that I hope gets consideration when we're dead confirmed town.

bell is?

[Remilia Scarlet]

like i am calling extreme attention to this right now:

Sure.
I only did a minor self check and decided that the only thing I really wanna change is that I'm not the one who hammers since we automatically win if I don't.

Yes. I know.

If this is a formality for him and none of this shit matters:

I'm confident Tunnels would flip town too.
this is just a formality.
We already took the first step might as well go through the process and do our due diligence.

I am going to have a hard time dealing w/ any walkback from this tomorrow because the upper quote is the way scum-him wins this game

[Remilia Scarlet]

as said earlier, unless there is 'fuckery'; i need to identify one town and right now i think ST is the only one who isn't doing weird posturey shit all over this plan.

It's annoying to be getting elimed and also guilted for somehow not having a galaxy brain gamesolve.

still willing to vote bell today

p-edit: still willing to vote bell today

[Remilia Scarlet]

gutshot probably the top one if i were coming into the game knowing nothing about anything but i think you're unhilighting the most important part of that second post

"seems like no compelling reason to deviate from the plan"

which is pretty much the impetus for everything else in it

[Remilia Scarlet]

=/ i had two completely different interpretations of this post on two separate reads of it

but ultimately either you support the plan as is, you think the lylo we're building toward is one i'm likely to botch (Bell hammer), or you think i'm full of shit, and ultimately i can't really tell what you want to happen here. most of your posts read 'undecided' but mostly w/ an emphasis on "of course i'm town, duh" in which case vote bell or st?

Maid clearly seems like they're going to park on me and not play

[Remilia Scarlet]

uhhh did bell get yeeted? the fuck is going on?

[Remilia Scarlet]

whatever the fuck is going on right now notwithstanding, here's where I got to overnight:

Bell

101 -- waaay too early letting Midway off the hook for something IMO pretty NAI
709 -- doubles back and I think realized that people weren't taking the piss out of Midway like Bell expected and decided to update that "scum" read to a "null" read
1505 -- now fully back to town now that most of the game has the backdrop of a town read at midway at this point. Kinda sits there for a while.
alllll the way to
5939 -- "hey stop saying dumb things or i'm gonna have to start distancing"
6432 -- looks incredibly like a bus vote considering Morph / April are all over Midway on the pages leading up to this vote

ST

Not as much movement on the slot in general - pretty much constant townread as is general consensus D1
1753 I could see this as a S/S "look I'm interacting w/ you" post
2008 kinda happens again here
5716 is basically the first post that views bear in a bad light from this slot and I didn't really like this post at all at the time, and even less so considering + flipped scum right after
then 6092 et al starts happening, and it doesn't seem reactionary to me - in fact, no one else is really talking about midway yet here.

There's a little bit if weirdness between heads, it seems like noddy has moved to legit suspicion of Midway at this point but IV isn't quite there yet. 6249 looks like noddy saying he scumreads midway and if that's really the case then I guess it shows some legitimate dissonance between IV/noddy on the slot. Even so I want some clarity on this.

Overall gutwise I think it's bell and atm want him to hammer me - ST's been remarkably consistent wrt the plan and was a major reason behind my turnaround on them yesterday where Morph and Bell were constantly diving in and out of wanting to follow it, and again I think the interaction with me from Bell about Muffin was just trying to get Muffin out of the game, who was someone who I was very unlikely to flip on, and Bell's interactions w/ me yesterday are nothing but either outright avoiding me or attempting to be obtuse about my meanings

[Remilia Scarlet]

uhhh did bell get yeeted? the fuck is going on?

Bell is deader than dead.

some kind of indication of that would've been nice

VOTE: Remilia

[Remilia Scarlet]

fuck they link to my PT

whatever numbers should be good

[Remilia Scarlet]

April,

In a world where you allow that it's not me (it's not) can you help me suss out:

1) is it just ST? Maid seemed clear to me based on their claim
2) what am i missing about maid's claim that unclears them

Because I don't need to convince you it's not me - I need to sort out 1 town between maid and ST and have the other hammer me
because the bell kill makes very little sense in a world where two confirmed town are alive

[Remilia Scarlet]

that's the elephant in the room that i was hoping one of ST or maid would bring up and neither did

[Remilia Scarlet]

Bork you know damn well if I was scum killing bell is a game throw

Interesting angle considering you know the exact thing applies to everyone but maid

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm claiming, fuck it.

Brotherhood, Last Resort ("Catch You When You Fall Bro")

how many quote layers can we get to!

[Remilia Scarlet]

and after all that i fuck it up

I'm claiming, fuck it.

Brotherhood, Last Resort ("Catch You When You Fall Bro")

If scum were to hammer me, at ELO, game will not end, VC will be reset, and my role PM will be posted in the thread.

Brotherhood is role flavor name, "Last Resort" is like what would be there in place of "Cop"

"Catch You When You Fall Bro" is ability flavor name, and Last Resort is also the thing that would say "Investigate" if I were a cop, etc.

[Remilia Scarlet]

Still gives the opportunity for town who ardently believes I'm scum to mishammer me

whereas scum will never throw that vote and flail forever

[Remilia Scarlet]

Yes but I literally had both of you say I didn’t have to vote. I could have won off that. I play weird but not stupid

What in specific are you talking about here

[Remilia Scarlet]

oh the plan

[Remilia Scarlet]

Yes but I literally had both of you say I didn’t have to vote. I could have won off that. I play weird but not stupid

What in specific are you talking about here

i mean you're in the best possible position. as scum or town here, no reason to rock the boat as either alignment

[Remilia Scarlet]

Hmm, could be jester? Could explain the remove. Jester SK hybrid? Hmm....I'm a little nervous of fading Remelia.

I 100% promise you that i will replace out of a game that I ever roll Jester in

[this isn't a trust tell because i've never rolled jester i don't fucking know but dude, no]

[Remilia Scarlet]

Not scum

but I'm between two people

one of whom has no pulse

the other is, well, i'll admit i was about 80/20 willing to bet the game on vs Bell today

you should vote me regardless

[Remilia Scarlet]

NO

[Remilia Scarlet]

whatever do whatever it is you think you're doing here

[Remilia Scarlet]

sigh

[Remilia Scarlet]

i had the opposite reaction to 8132

[Remilia Scarlet]

I’ll do it if I have to but I’d still rather not

you'd rather not because why?

[Remilia Scarlet]

You're acting like it's flipped already

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm aware that's what you've been saying you think is what's going on

What do you make of the lack of a yeet today?

[Remilia Scarlet]

There's like an insanely low chance I don't go Remelia here, but I have to do the work.

you really fucking don't; that's been my point the entire time

[Remilia Scarlet]

can you just be number 2 vote on me and we'll see what happens?

[Remilia Scarlet]

EZ

[Remilia Scarlet]

THANK GOD

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm scum of course

[Remilia Scarlet]

I can explain all the dumb shit i did this game i promise

[Remilia Scarlet]

really did think SS was a weak role N1 and everything kinda went off the rails from there

[Remilia Scarlet]

the maid block was unfortunate and actually muffin figured out why i did it

[Remilia Scarlet]

no

[Remilia Scarlet]

why the fuck would i concede

[Remilia Scarlet]

fuck that, you want to win the game, go win the fucking game

[Remilia Scarlet]

delaying the action makes no sense unless they can continue doing that indefinitely

like if mariaboy is town, what does delaying it a single day do?

i guess maybe one day closer to lylo or something? eh. not like it makes a diff really?

we were gonna block maid forever until the last day where we could roleblock w/o the silence and ML

[Remilia Scarlet]

this was contingent on hitting the investigative in N1 which obviously we failed to do

[Remilia Scarlet]

this was contingent on hitting the investigative in N1 which obviously we failed to do

[Remilia Scarlet]

I feel like you'd have had more of a chance here if you brought Morph into this day.

don't I know it! I tried everything to get someone else to die

I couldn't kill you w/o giving you a result, just the way my role worked

[Remilia Scarlet]

my role blocked and commuted you so i couldn't kill you and block you the same day, and even if i killed you i now had to CC someone else entering the PT or hope you hit me

[Remilia Scarlet]

that bulge investigate was

chef kiss

for sure

[Remilia Scarlet]

my role was fucking terrible for everyone

please nobody ever use it again

[Remilia Scarlet]

yes, but i create clears by someone claiming "I got neighborized"

i need to CC that or they're clear, and if I CC it whoever is left is clear

[Remilia Scarlet]

Also the "loud" part of my role made it not as OP as some of you seemed to think it was

and the interaction w/ the lightning rod was fucking brutal man

[Remilia Scarlet]

i was under the impression it wouldn't have put me in the hood

[Remilia Scarlet]

i think that was based on me reading my rolecop result of you

[Remilia Scarlet]

Are you saying the loud part telegraphed your actions basically?

yes

[Remilia Scarlet]

Each night, you may choose to neighborize a player. If they are aligned with the Town and your action is successful, they will gain access to your personal private topic (Sanctuary). If they are not aligned with the town and your action is successful, you will die.

I read this as mutually exclusive clauses

[Remilia Scarlet]

like the first part doesn't apply to me

[Remilia Scarlet]

yeah i mean if nothing else i got to drag the game on for three weeks

so,

uh, yeah, take that!

[Remilia Scarlet]

that was one of the only posts GIF made this game ><

[Remilia Scarlet]

Is there gas in the car?
Yes there's gas in the car
...I think the people down the hall know who you are