Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[Surye]

/confirm

Vote: Alabaska J

because he talks in maths.

[Surye]

*not surprised Ala missed the Radiohead reference *

[Surye]

Lynch all Liars is so case to case, it's useless as a phrase.

Fixed.

Fixed.

[Surye]

Woo! Game theory discussion before the end of confirmation stage. Haha

[Surye]

*not surprised Ala missed the Radiohead reference *

What? If it's from Pablo Honey then it doesn't count IMO.

OK Computer. Karma Police. Arrest this man.

Anyways, about lurkers. True it is going to be tight, but if we keep on the mod about prods, we can try to keep the game moving. Lynching lurkers is a dangerous game.

[Surye]

Okay, I'm here. I've reread already.
Regarding the lurker issue, lynching lurkers is okay, depending on the circumstance. Most of the time, I'm good with it.
In other news,

vote: Cream147

. She seems to be trying to get the town to lynch lurkers, but she doesn't want to go against the town's wishes so she invents the "I don't want them lynched, I want them pressured" excuse.

I don't see it as scummy or contradictory. Pressure is != lynch, just like wagon != lynch. If you're lurking, sometimes your name coming a lot is enough. A wagon will often get them posting. This is a good approach. Do we drop the hammer though? No, not on policy. If they get to L-2 and they still aren't posting, they should be replaced, not lynched. Especially if you prescribe to the Bored Vanilla Townie Theory.

Cream is being perfectly reasonable. You're being one-dimensional.

[Surye]

Like I said, votes are more often then not enough. If they are lurking, and are not responsive to votes, they might be VL/A without notice. However. If we see them playing elsewhere, and they have a wagon on them, and they are not posting, then I'd say I'm okay with it. But that doesn't change the fact that pressure is not the same thing as a lynch.

[Surye]

@Surye: I'm sorry, but I disagree. Now that we've discussed it openly in the thread, lurkers, particularly scum lurkers, are going to be less willing to stick their heads back into the game.

Awh, I'm sorry. Does discussing things make you uneasy?

[Surye]

unvote

vote Empking

There! I am voting now. Want to add something?

I'm starting to side with the SirT votes. And this really did it for me. Pretending to play is unacceptable.

Vote: Sir Tornado

[Surye]

I'm starting to side with the SirT votes. And this really did it for me. Pretending to play is unacceptable. Vote: Sir Tornado

This is ironic, considering only I and Armlx seem to be actually playing this game. The rest of you seem to think (before this page) discussing lurkers belongs to mafia games. Try the "mafia discussion" forum.

Pretending to play early is MUCH worse then making theory discussion in early game.

[Surye]

I'm liking SirT's responses, and I can see his point. I wish he had just been more clear, and avoided this all. His vote was really misleading.

Unvote

[Surye]

And, here's for those who think my approach to game is strange and scummy:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5704
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6236
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7702 (I replaced out out this, but this is how I played in the first few pages)

Check my alignment in all three of those games.

So...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6382
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6561
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5565

Where are we going with this? Are you basically stating that we must ignore your playstyle because of your history? I just pulled three other games where you are Mafia/SK, doesn't look like you played much different (miles and miles of quoting), would it not make sense to evaluate a player's scummy'ness based on this thread, and treat your history (cherrypicked or otherwise) as a wash?

Basically I'd see this particular pattern as a nulltell when meta supports it. Unless it's a REALLY bad pattern, it's not worth droning on when it's easily provable it's a null tell based on meta. And while his behavior was worth discussing, I don't think it's going to amount to much more.

[Surye]

@Tornado: Yes, I get it, which I quite clearly stated, but you're missing the point. Just answer instead of trying to disguise your answer in quotes.
@Shanba: Care to explain your vote?

No.

Why should I explain it?

Explaining your vote is common practice, unless you're scum looking to get a quick mislynch. Simply saying "just go back and look" isn't good enough. What do you find scummy about me?

Votes often lack an explaination to get and analize a reaction. More risky to the voter, because of the things you're saying, but can be quite useful.

[Surye]

I agree with farside that Surye's vote on Sir T was bandwagoning.

Vote Surye

When did she say that? She thought he was being sarcastic, I thought he was pretending to play. No where did she mention that I was bandwagoning. Nice try though.

So you're looking at that one post and concluding that Sir T is "pretending to play." Can you really say that about his other posts? I think he's one of the better contributors so far, even if I don't agree with him.

Can I say that about his other posts? Uhh.. no? Which is why I not only unvoted him, but also defended him? Are you even paying attention to this game?

You're acting like I'm still voting him. Your post is full of silly.

[Surye]

And my post is full of TAGFAIL D:

Mod: fixed it for ya

[Surye]

I'd actually like to reiterate the real problem with Megatheory's post.

He opens with an old post that has been discussed and explained (for the most part, I can explain why I thought he was pretending to play if you want, but lets just move on for a moment). He connects me strongly in many places to voting for Sir T.

He proceeds to be baffled as to why people are voting Sir T, and say the case is over his play style (pay attention to this, it's important). He then again comes back to me, repeats his earlier statement, connection it to his most recent post then votes me.

His issue is that the votes on Sir T are for a play style that I unvoted him on, and defended him on. He's twisting the situation against me for an easy vote. And it's quite sad how transparent and useless it is.

[Surye]

Thanks Mana, guess I am guilty of not paying as close attention myself, I missed the end of that post ^^;

Anyways, my point on MT's post stands 100% still.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (3): Demon Pineapple, farside22, Megatheory
BlakAdder (3): Shanba, Alabaska J, Sir Tornado
Sir Tornado (2): Moratorium, BlakAdder
Empking (1): RestFermata
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
Cream147 (1): Empking
Slicey (1): Wall-E
farside22 (1): martin413
RestFermata (1): Riceballtail
armlx (1): Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1): fouxdufafa
Megatheory (1): armlx

Not voting (8): al4xz, Azuma, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, DynamoXI, Surye, Slicey

[Surye]

I'm surprised farside22 voted me on that actually. It was an early game vote, that didn't last long, and generated some discussion. There was no bandwagonning at all. I'm kinda hoping she has a better point then this.

[Surye]

The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly?

He unvoted for the reasons he posted when he unvoted*

I think he is being vague. I don't like vague.

You're clouding the issue. You're isolating my unvote post, and not looking at my discussion of how his meta makes the playstyle a null tell. When I voted, these things had not come into light. I may have been vague in my unvote post (I don't think so), but I continued to explain why Sir T didn't deserve a vote for several other posts.

[Surye]

Damnit,

Mod: Can you delete my dupe? I hit refresh at the wrong page

Mod: done

[Surye]

The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly?

He unvoted for the reasons he posted when he unvoted*

I think he is being vague. I don't like vague.

You're clouding the issue. You're isolating my unvote post, and not looking at my discussion of how his meta makes the playstyle a null tell. When I voted, these things had not come into light. I may have been vague in my unvote post (I don't think so), but I continued to explain why Sir T didn't deserve a vote for several other posts.

I saw where you pointed out the links that were being brought up and stated that it is a null tell. Also I disagree with what you said here:

Votes often lack an explaination to get and analize a reaction. More risky to the voter, because of the things you're saying, but can be quite useful.

People don't react to votes. They react to what the vote represents and what is said in that vote. It's easy for anyone to just vote then what kind of game would we have if people just voted and did nothing else?

I didn't say that's the only way to play, nor did I say that's all someone should do. But it is a valid tactic. People do react to votes. Alot.

[Surye]

Would you mind showing (by way of quotes) that I was a gainst voting for pressure.

You weren't, my mistake, I'll probably get a lot of this type of complaint for trying to get this done too quickly.

Thinking this over, having a player who is willing to put all this crap together probably did nothing but make me a big NK target for wanting to emphasize people's trends.

Just to make a point on PBP. I know players who are scum that have done a PBP in the past just to look more town. I know scum and town who are able to do it with analysis, however scum have a trickier time with this. Doing a PBP is just a way of saying hey look I'm contributing I'm not scum while really not scum hunting.

Some of my best work as scum involved a PBPA (see Dynomite Mafia)

[Surye]

Your thoughs about Sir T's meta didn't come until after you had unvoted so you can't really use that as an explanation for why you unvoted.

Really? You only get one shot? I'll keep that in mind. Discussions are not necessary, since you only get one post.

The rest of your post hinges on that, so I don't have a response to such nonsense. His meta game supports his non-play.

Since you all are harping on the pretending to play, I assure you that you're all getting tunnel vision no this fact. Look at the post I quoted in the vote. It's pretending to play, 100%. It's participating because he's told to. Now, how much did I invest in this? Did I lead the charge to have him lynched? No. Did I then proceed to follow the discussion on why he would do that, then weigh in, and unvote? Yes.

You're being so ridiculous.

mod: quotes fixed

[Surye]

unvote

vote Surye

I hope atleast a few people see what I see.

I was going to post a sarcastic response to your obvious misinterpretation of something, but I have no idea what you're on about.

[Surye]

Vote: armlx

because I have no idea how to pronounce your name.

Oh, I thought it was an L. >_>

Unvote

This. Why unvote a random vote just because your random reason was incorrect? It seems like you had another motive there.

Random unvotes are as random as random votes. Silly reasons abound.

What did you think his motive is? So when armlx flips scum, Slicey can say "See! I voted armlx once!"? Are you kidding me?

[Surye]

Since you all are harping on the pretending to play, I assure you that you're all getting tunnel vision no this fact. Look at the post I quoted in the vote. It's pretending to play, 100%. It's participating because he's told to. Now, how much did I invest in this? Did I lead the charge to have him lynched? No. Did I then proceed to follow the discussion on why he would do that, then weigh in, and unvote? Yes.

You're being so ridiculous.

I can pretend to play in one post all I want, but it is irrelevant as far as I am actually playing in other posts. Now, the thing is, I think you know your vote on me for the reasons you are giving in that post was very weak, and yet instead of agreeing that it was weak and just leaving it there and moving on, you continue to try to defend it. I see this as a scum-tell. The scum are, in general reluctant to back down and agree that they were wrong most of the trivial incidents, like that vote, something which you are doing at the moment.

Sorry, I thought that my unvote was proof enough I thought my vote was weak. My unvote by definition was backing down. Your logic is flawed.

[Surye]

Vote: Slicey

You're just attacking a random target, almost doing the same thing you claimed of him. Need proof? Look at Emp's posts in isolation and show me ONE place he's pushing for a lynch.

If you voted without a case, that would be one thing, but you had specific behaviors you voted for which are not even CLOSE to reality.

[Surye]

This is feeling like the standard fakeclaim-crafting delay.

[Surye]

Okay, we're at L-3 now then.

Who doesn't have a problem with him making a deliberate case against a player that is absolutly false, so false that it would be unreasonable to think he was just "mistaken". (Take a look at Emp in isolation if you don't think this is the case, seriously.)

[Surye]

L-1 ... this is usually where we would call for a claim... but we got Vanilla... so... any last words Slicey? You've seem to make no attempt to defend yourself AT ALL. You've not answered to a single thing I or anyone has posted, and you have had the opportunity since you posted your claim and your "I'm doomed! LOL!" post.

I agree with Ala here, he is trying to pull off nonchalant, and that's so noobscum it hurts.

[Surye]

I'm interested to see who hammers.

I'll buy his drink.

[Surye]

I'll buy his drink.

Surye fails for saying things that imply you are extremely accepting and therefore absolving of responsibility of a hammer.

Meh, I am voting him, I am just as responsible for the lynch as you or anyone else. I am voting him, and at this late in the wagon, there is no question that I support his lynch. Me saying that added nothing.

A hammer is not that special, it's just a vote like mine or yours. Also, fos on you for trying to absolve your own part in the lynch, and creating a false sense of responsibility for whoever decides to do what every person voting has decided should happen.

[Surye]

I have to disagree with ytou their Wall-E.

I think theitr is a difference with the hammer.

How is the hammer's vote different then the one you have on him?

[Surye]

A hammer vote leads to the end of the day.

So you're saying that your vote does not have that intent?

Singling out the hammer vote as special before the hammer is a huge scumtell in my opinion. If you're voting after L-3 in a game this size, you're in it for the lynch.

[Surye]

My vote does not choose when the day ends.

Unvote if you're not ready for the day to end. If you are, it's amounts to the same responsibility.

[Surye]

"pushing for a lynch." I think this is an acceptable reason for a vote

Really? It's only an acceptable reason if that's what was actually happening. Do you think it was even close to what was happening?

[Surye]

That was pretty damning as Devil's Advocate.

I don't think I'd want you as my lawyer.

Naw, it's full of huge holes and fallacious assumptions. I wouldn't want him as my lawyer, but for different reasons ;P

[Surye]

And speaking of being "all talk", before someone accuses me of being "all talk" for not voting for Demon Pineapple, I don't want to deflect attention away from Slicey, whom I do indeed view as scummy, though I also see it as too early to hammer. So I'm going to withhold for now.

If you don't think it's the time, ask questions, make points, just letting the thread sit here won't convince you. What do you need?

[Surye]

I am pretty convinced that Slicey is scum, but I really just don't want the day to end until I hear from the people who haven't contributed AYTHING, Surye. These people would be:

Azuma (1 post)
martin413 (2 posts)
killa seven (2 posts, but he's having internet problems to be fair)
ace1217 (0 posts)

I feel that there is still more to learn from this day, and these 4 people can help.

Good call, now we have something to work with.

Mod: Can we get some prods?

[Surye]

Empking's 7th vote does technically ask rhetorically "Why are people not voting?"

The question seems to indicate a push for people to vote.

Voting does technically lead to lynches.

To vote, not for a quick lynch. Not even to vote anyone specifically. There is a world of difference.

[Surye]

Our options:

A) Hammer Slicey
B) Wait for Slicey to return and defend himself
C) Pick a new lynch target

I'm leaning toward B.

Before the hammer, I'd like a response to my post (499).

What huge holes?

What fallacious assumptions?

Post 14: Votes for Empking under duress. Only reason given was in his sixth post where he said Empking was "pushing for a lynch." I think this is an acceptable reason for a vote, and again his lack of confidence has forced him to adapt to the mafiascum.net playing style against his will, making him look bad to us and us look pushy and mean to him.

This mostly. It's saying he had a reasonable reason to vote, but ignored the fact that the reason was false in this situation. Then you were apologetic for him. The whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way, but I figured it's because you were approching it from a Devil's Advocate perspective.

[Surye]

I was approaching it not having actually looked (recently) at the post he referenced. Had he been pushing for a lynch, I would not call voting for him scummy. It turns out, actually, he was pushing for votes, which given Slicey's misuse of the term "case" might be another vocabulary-related error, and might just be silly logic or grasping. I'm done defending him, so I'm going to say what I really think: It was probably unintentionally faulty logic, but since he was ambiguous, I have to interpret it in the worst possible light for the sake of the town and maintain my vote.

So.

If it was faulty logic, why didn't he even attempt to correct it when confronted with it multiple times?

[Surye]

Im not liking emkings recent posts.. has slicey claimed?

Yea, vanilla.

[Surye]

Sorry for abscence. Quite busy atm. I'll try to get back to daily posting now that i've got access, and a standard timetable.

Without much looking through the thread:

Fos Jebus
Fos Armlx
Vote Shanba

I'll try to read the thread and give some opinions at some point.

I'd love to hear some reasons for the FoS' and vote.

[Surye]

Welcome Gremwell!

[Surye]

I checked this "case".

I fail to see how anyone could draw that conclusion.

I am now officially against this wagon.

This is the best D1 wagon I have ever seen. I hope you plan to read the game.

[Surye]

It's good, not the best ever. But the later part applies. Read plz.

I haven't played as many games as you maybe, it's the best day one I've seen

[Surye]

Not much to post on. There is this slight vote shifting, which is pretty suspicious, noted for later analysis. Slicey is still the way to go.

[Surye]

There are suspicious things going on. I'm not moving my vote, but this will all come up tomorrow, that's for sure.

[Surye]

I think we should lynch someone who voted Slicey today.

Not sure where to place my vote yet. Still need to read up, I guess. I'll think about it.

That, or someone who jumped ship last minute. Both are good sources for the next vote.

[Surye]

I vote against any Sir T re-replacing on principle of him having an unrevealed night choice.

I would think this goes without saying.

[Surye]

To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.

Jebus unvoted.

Those are my reasons for suspecting them.

Did it really look like I was trying to avoid looking like I was all for the wagon? I still stand by that lynch, it was the right move with the information at the time. Your suspicion amounts to "He discussed things without voting".

[Surye]

Vote:Surye

Because he seems very eager to post, jumping up and down, but at the same time not saying much. I also don't like that 'people who jumped ship' comment. If you have suspicions, when don't you just state them clearly.

Because I have yet to have time to do a full end of day analysis, so I just put out what was on my mind.

[Surye]

After a cooldown and a re-read, this is my decision.

Vote: Surye

FoS: Jebus

For the reasons I stated in post 670.

And without replying to my 677? I see. I guess discussion is not of interest in your vote.

[Surye]

I would just like to point out Wall-E that you put negative attention on me last page, without voting, then when another person voted me, you voted me. Does this make you scum, as you think it made me scum? Because you discussed your ideas, then came to a conclusion of a vote?

Mod edit
Votecount:
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Surye (2): springlullaby, Wall-E
Riceballtail (1): Xtoxm
Cream147 (1): armlx
Xtoxm (1): Empking

Not voting (15): Megatheory, al4xz, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Surye, Alabaska J, BlakAdder, Cream147, Jebus, Riceballtail, Slepz, Muerrto, killa seven, Zazier

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Surye]

Actually I kind of understand where Wall-E is coming from. Surye, why didn't you hop on

the best D1 wagon you'd ever seen?

What do you mean? I did. And I rode it with conviction. Sure I was wrong, but a lot of us were.

[Surye]

Actually... this is more interesting on review. Look at my posts in isolation. Look at the first page. Ctrl-F for Slicey.

First mention of Slicey: I was attacking Wall-E's pathetic line of reasoning (not to be confused with defending Slicey).

Second mention of Slicey: I VOTED SLICEY, WITH EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM.

To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.

Jebus unvoted.

Those are my reasons for suspecting them.

Wall-E. You flat out lied. What is your defense?

[Surye]

Actually... this is more interesting on review. Look at my posts in isolation. Look at the first page. Ctrl-F for Slicey.

First mention of Slicey: I was attacking Wall-E's pathetic line of reasoning (not to be confused with defending Slicey).

Second mention of Slicey: I VOTED SLICEY, WITH EXACTLY WHY I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM.

To clarify that: Surye seemed to be adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting, like he was waiting to see if Slicey got more negative attention.

Jebus unvoted.

Those are my reasons for suspecting them.

Wall-E. You flat out lied. What is your defense?

If I lied it was on accident. Can you clarify what was the lie?

I never "adding early-wagon fuel to the fire without voting". Not even close.

[Surye]

No one else interested in Surye? What about this post from him just before night?

There are suspicious things going on. I'm not moving my vote, but this will all come up tomorrow, that's for sure.

I think we should lynch someone who voted Slicey today.

Not sure where to place my vote yet. Still need to read up, I guess. I'll think about it.

That, or someone who jumped ship last minute. Both are good sources for the next vote.

[Surye]

No one else interested in Surye? What about this post from him just before night?

There are suspicious things going on. I'm not moving my vote, but this will all come up tomorrow, that's for sure.

I think we should lynch someone who voted Slicey today.

Not sure where to place my vote yet. Still need to read up, I guess. I'll think about it.

That, or someone who jumped ship last minute. Both are good sources for the next vote.

Yeah, so what?

Do you want brownie points for saying something scummy then doing it?

lolwut?

[Surye]

Jumping off the wagon at the end, when you know it will result in a lynch regardlessly is a move for appearences only. The only people who need to worry about such things are scum. I'm not saying everyone who jumped off were scum, but that it is a likely place to look.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Surye (2): springlullaby, Wall-E
Riceballtail (1): Xtoxm
Cream147 (1): armlx
Xtoxm (1): Empking

Not voting (15): Megatheory, al4xz, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Surye, Alabaska J, BlakAdder, Cream147, Jebus, Riceballtail, Slepz, Muerrto, killa seven, Zazier

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Surye]

And like I said, it came up today

[Surye]

Jumping off the wagon at the end, when you know it will result in a lynch regardlessly is a move for appearences only. The only people who need to worry about such things are scum. I'm not saying everyone who jumped off were scum, but that it is a likely place to look.

For everyone 1 game you show me were scum jumped off a wagon near the end of the day I will show you 10 games where scum stayed on a wagon because it's the best place to hide.

Better yet looking at yesterday and seeing what people said and why they did or didn't do something is the best in finding scum.

Perhaps, I'm not investing a whole lot in it, I was just discussing it from how I saw it.

[Surye]

However, this is not true if you read things in context, not just looking for "Slicey"

Really? Tell me where I added fuel to the Slicey wagon without voting. Specifically where. Or are you just being misleading?

24: Says slicey had a scummy motive by unvoting armlx

Your reading comprehension could use some serious work. I clearly said there was NOTHING scummy about it.

I've never seen so much nothing. Your PBPA shows how town I am if anything. Your vote on me is baseless.

[Surye]

Vote: armlx

because I have no idea how to pronounce your name.

Oh, I thought it was an L. >_>

Unvote

This. Why unvote a random vote just because your random reason was incorrect? It seems like you had another motive there.

Random unvotes are as random as random votes. Silly reasons abound.

What did you think his motive is? So when armlx flips scum, Slicey can say "See! I voted armlx once!"? Are you kidding me?

Show of hands who thinks this post could in ANY way be interpreted as me calling Slicey scummy for unvoting. At all.

[Surye]

And I ignored your 42 because it's not scummy at all. Retarded? sure, but not scummy. And if it is, it's so vaguly scummy that someone ignoring it is NOTHING.

[Surye]

Also, kindly quote wjhere you called out k7 on this gamebreaking scummy post. Since me not responding to it warrents a vote, you must have really nailed him on it, huh?

[Surye]

I agree there is some analysis, I quoted some of it, and it was bogus.

[Surye]

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (3): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Riceballtail (1): Xtoxm
Cream147 (1): armlx
Xtoxm (1): Empking
Sir T. (1): Wall-E

Not voting (13): Megatheory, al4xz, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Surye, Alabaska J, BlakAdder, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

Nice try though.

Are you even paying attention to this game?

Your post is full of silly.

ugh minus...should be 3...

insulting people who attack you makes your 'case' look weak and your stance shaky

and it worked in that respect

I attacked did not attack him, nice misdirection. (See all cases where he basically claims ad-hominem, but I am not insulting the person at all, but their point.)

He's twisting the situation against me for an easy vote. And it's quite sad how transparent and useless it is.

because you're in danger of being lynched and you're an easy target?

*crickets* I don't see any others scrambling for you to be strung up

Where did I say he was going for the easy lynch? I said easy vote. These are distinct, as an easy vote on a target who is unlikely to be lynched looks like you're playing, but you won't be on the lynch list.

Surye leaps on Slicey for horribly weak reasons.

Funny, a majority of the town clearly disagrees. My reasons were rock solid.

Who doesn't have a problem with him making a deliberate case against a player that is absolutly false, so false that it would be unreasonable to think he was just "mistaken". (Take a look at Emp in isolation if you don't think this is the case, seriously.)

Defending Emp...

How am I defending Emp? I was attacking Slicey. If player A lies about player B, attacking the lie is not defending B. Another poor misdirection.

I think we should lynch someone who voted Slicey today.

Not sure where to place my vote yet. Still need to read up, I guess. I'll think about it.

That, or someone who jumped ship last minute. Both are good sources for the next vote.

Wow...you're really pushing that angle, day 1 now day 2...

You call one short post "really pushing"? The only time I brought it up more then once was when someone else forgot I said that.



Is that really all you have? I'll give you this, you formulated your case better then RBT (heh, "case"), but yours is on just as weak ground. I know I pushed for a lynch that ended in a town death, and I did so on a rock solid case that no one D1 called me on for a reason. D2 is easy to attack it when you know that Slicey is town, but I did not know that then, just like you all did not. I will always push a case I feel solid.

I want to vote RBT or Wall-E, and I'm not sure which I an more uncomfortable with. And it may look like an OMGUS, but all the activity this day has basicaly been against me, so I am going to have to deal with it

Vote: RBT

for a blatently false case, and

Fos: Wall-E

.

[Surye]

I attacked did not attack him, nice misdirection. (See all cases where he basically claims ad-hominem, but I am not insulting the person at all, but their point.)

Is that really all you have? I'll give you this, you formulated your case better then RBT (heh, "case"), but yours is on just as weak ground. I know I pushed for a lynch that ended in a town death, and I did so on a rock solid case that no one D1 called me on for a reason. D2 is easy to attack it when you know that Slicey is town, but I did not know that then, just like you all did not. I will always push a case I feel solid.

First off, if I'm 'misdirecting' then you're saying I'm scum. Because town doesn't misdirect. I could be

wrong

if I'm town but not on purpose.

So, do you suspect me of being scum because I'm suspect of you or do you have a 'case' on me or did you want to reword that attack on me?

Town can do it too, unintentionally. I think you were asking the question, "How is surye scummy" rather then "Is surye scummy" when you did your analysis, so you founds things without considering the value, and focusing on certain parts and not seeing or valuing other parts that invalidate that analysis. Call it wrong all you want, but it's misleading those who read it. Good thing I was there to clarify.

Second, the case was faaaaar from solid. Can you summarize the case for me using only quotes please? That way we can be sure it's from day 1 and not hindsight.

I'm out the door, I will do it at lunch if I have time.

[Surye]

@Xotxm: I partially agree with the Shanba vote, though it'll depend how Slicey turns up as.

Out of 11 total posts, this one strikes me as note worthy. Do you plan on following up with this Jebus?

[Surye]

And yes, I saw he posted since the new day, but he seemed to have something specific with Slicey that he has yet to elaborate on.

[Surye]

Conjecture: A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork

Hmm.. no, that's not a good enough answer. You said to remove I think. Means you don't think it, you know it, however, a conjecture by definition is a guess.

[Surye]

I'm a mathmetician...

In mathematics, a conjecture is a mathematical statement which appears likely to be true, but has not been formally proven to be true under the rules of mathematical logic.

That changes nothing. "Appears likely" is still "I think".

[Surye]

I still have that Day Cop result...

Jokes as a defense of the things to assert are not a good thing. Or are you claiming your random voting claim was real?

[Surye]

EBWOP: things you assert

[Surye]

Yea, I'm really not liking xtoxm's recent posts. At all.

Vote: Xtoxm

. Cream also is suspicious for his lurking. I see no issue with Armlx.

[Surye]

Wasn't expecting that from Surye. Perhaps his wagon has more potential than I originally thought.

Oh, I'm sorry your completely baseless accusations are not more well received.

[Surye]

Because the way he voted me for making a joke looks horribly scummy, looks like he's just trying to find a scapegoat to deflect attention away from his wagon, and not actually scumhunt, which is something scum wants to do.

Oh, I find testing the waters with a vote and a harsh, direct accusation, only to fall back to a joke when it was ill-received to be quite justifiably scummy.

[Surye]

[cough]OMGUS[/cough] See folks, this is where OMGUS is useful as a scumtell. He resorted to it when he had no real response to my reasoning behind my vote. He's gone 3 posts now without addressing it, every one of them OMGUS to some degree, ending with a vote on me.

[Surye]

Yeh, i'm town, so that's bullshit.

Defense of the century!

[Surye]

So you think I am acting scummy xtoxm? You do not think my suspicious are valid scumhunting? For a moment, forget that it is you being targeted, and look at what I observed and am presenting. I could keep harping on about the bad wagons on me, or I could scumhunt.

[Surye]

I have explained why. Why don't you read it?

I can be dense sometimes, mind quoting in again please? All I see is you saying you were joking, and that was part of my problem with it. You have since said it was just gut, but you said that after deflecting me over and over and finally voting me.

[Surye]

I can't see Xtomx playing this badly as scum(well town either) but I gotta agree the wagon on him looks poor and it's being spear headed by Surye and now backed up by Wall and Al4xz...just sayin...

I'm pursuing a lead. What are you doing again?

[Surye]

No, I just feel this wagon on me is silly and undeserved...

I'd be the first to admit it's not the strongest, but your behavior of what looked like to me fishing for reactions, then falling back on a joke deserved a bit of attention. Your reactions have been what has blown this "wagon" into what it is.

[Surye]

I can't see Xtomx playing this badly as scum(well town either) but I gotta agree the wagon on him looks poor and it's being spear headed by Surye and now backed up by Wall and Al4xz...just sayin...

I'm pursuing a lead. What are you doing again?

On second thought, you've been doing exactly what I have been doing, we just disagree on what is worth pursuing.

[Surye]

Your post 856 scans like a teenage girl in a tantrum, as to several others before it.

[Surye]

Your post 856 scans like a teenage girl in a tantrum, as to several others before it.

And, be that as it may, since when is that a scumtell?

When that's all you have to say. Also, your refusal to directly respond to what I said for several pages, your OMGUS vote on me, etc etc.

[Surye]

If you want my vote so bad you can have it.

Unvote Vote Surye

Yea, that was an amazing explaination.

[Surye]

Because the way he voted me for making a joke looks horribly scummy, looks like he's just trying to find a scapegoat to deflect attention away from his wagon, and not actually scumhunt, which is something scum wants to do.

Oh, I find testing the waters with a vote and a harsh, direct accusation, only to fall back to a joke when it was ill-received to be quite justifiably scummy.

And your vote was in response to my case against you, which I fail to find any response to. :/ That's pretty much scum-OMGUS?

[Surye]

And I replied directly to that, and rather then addressing my post (the one I commented on directly above your vote), you voted me. Yes I voted you for a "joke", but if you look at what I said, you'd see why I didn't trust your joke. Yet you couldn't respond to that, and just voted instead. So much easier?

[Surye]

Because the way he voted me for making a joke looks horribly scummy, looks like he's just trying to find a scapegoat to deflect attention away from his wagon, and not actually scumhunt, which is something scum wants to do.

Oh, I find testing the waters with a vote and a harsh, direct accusation, only to fall back to a joke when it was ill-received to be quite justifiably scummy.

And your vote was in response to my case against you, which I fail to find any response to. :/ That's pretty much scum-OMGUS?

I did not "fall back", it was a "joke" from the start.

That's not how it looked from here. And from here is all I can see, that why I am discussing it.

[Surye]

As much as i've looked at you this game, I can't see you being town.

Though ever since my first game with you, I don't think i've ever a) Seen you be town, b) Gotten a town read from you...

Basically, i'm not ruling out the possibility you can be town, but i'm not seeing it.

Did the joke start before or after here? This kind of ambiguity is the problem with "jokes" like that. Now you can claim any level of responsibility in hindsight.

[Surye]

As much as i've looked at you this game, I can't see you being town.

Though ever since my first game with you, I don't think i've ever a) Seen you be town, b) Gotten a town read from you...

Basically, i'm not ruling out the possibility you can be town, but i'm not seeing it.

Did the joke start before or after here? This kind of ambiguity is the problem with "jokes" like that. Now you can claim any level of responsibility in hindsight.

[Surye]

Doh, double post. Sorry.

[Surye]

I truly think Xtoxm was making a joke post and really am having a hard time seeing it as serious. I believe this wagon is going to be pushed by scum. Remember guys, it was his

first post

and this is

Xtoxm

we are talking about.

You're talking about his first vote? Then you're not paying attention.

[Surye]

Hmm...Drop the "I think".

Is the pivotal post.

[Surye]

Unvote

We've gone full circle on Xtoxm, my vote did what I needed it to, we had a full investigation of a suspicion. But by itself, the whole ambiguity of commitment statements is not really enough to keep pushing this, I don't see it necessarily being scumfinding.

[Surye]

Vote: Xtoxm

Mod: not counted, unvote first

I don't know if Wall-E knew he didn't unvote, so I'll assume he didn't. However, I really don't like his participation in this wagon. He voted without contributing at first, and then proceeded to attack his wagon behavior, which is fine, but he voted before much of that happened. He never seemed to agree or even understand my original case behind my vote.

It feels opportunistic.

FoS: Wall-E

[Surye]

Unvote

I'll find a new lead before I vote again.

@Surye: Nice omgus.

I suggest you look up the definition of omgus.

[Surye]

I submit that you're scum looking for an excuse to dirty the reputation of one of your attackers.

Uhh... in what world would I consider you one of my attackers? I threw an FoS on you that you should and could have easily defended and supported your action, but you did this instead? Honestly?

[Surye]

Unvote, Vote: Surye

I've already stated why, and right now Surye is my favorite pick for scum.

Ah, I see you have found the definition of OMGUS

[Surye]

I stated the reason for my vote when I first voted you. At the time, you had never attacked me (to my knowledge). It seems you're the one who needs to look up a definition.

I FoS'd you, you scrambled to vote me, and put and said it was because I omgused you as the only real reason. Maybe I missed where you had a case on me?

[Surye]

I later clarified that my vote on Surye was for adding fuel to the BW without voting (which I have done on occasion, but usually for ulterior motive).

Oh my god, not this again. I disproved this. I did not ONCE throw fire on the BW before I voted. Not ONCE. I asked over and over, and you could not name the post in which I did this. And your vote now has been based on this TWICE. Seriously. Please. For the sake of the town, take a moment, and quote even one post where I added fuel to the fire of Slicey's BW without voting.

[Surye]

Vote: armlx

because I have no idea how to pronounce your name.

Oh, I thought it was an L. >_>

Unvote

This. Why unvote a random vote just because your random reason was incorrect? It seems like you had another motive there.

Random unvotes are as random as random votes. Silly reasons abound.

What did you think his motive is? So when armlx flips scum, Slicey can say "See! I voted armlx once!"? Are you kidding me?

This is the ONLY time I mentioned Slicey before his vote. And I was saying that he WASN'T being scummy. I said that random unvotes are as random as votes, so there's no analysis of the unvote for motive.

There is NO attack in there at all.

Look, I even SAID "random unvotes are as random as votes".

I even said "Are you kidding me?" when I was asking how that could be scummy.

What are you talking about Wall-E. What game are you playing?

[Surye]

I feel that a lynch of a lurker is better odds to hit scum then anyone I see playing actively right now, but, I really hate trying to find the best lurker to vote as there is, by nature, little to analyze.

Cream's anti-lurk stance followed by his lurking is very odd. K7 hardly plays in any game. Megatheory WAS active, and now is not when the conversation flaired up. Slepz and Azuma, I've got no idea.

Given that, Cream or MT seem like the best course of action at this point. Will consider which gets my vote.

[Surye]

He's been off the site since Sept 28! Guess that means

Vote: Cream

He's the worst kind of lurker really. He pokes his head in every few days to try to stay off the lurker list.

[Surye]

I'm not really sure what to do, been really busy this last week with Mid-terms, so I'm a little behind. Though the deadline is supposed to be today? I don't feel confident of anyone just yet. The Jebus "wagon" seems to ebb a lot, and there's some good points on it. Cream keeps poking his head back in, but not actually playing substantially. Of all the lurkers, this makes me most suspicious of him (I know he said he is VLA, but has since posted many times that he can catch up and play).

[Surye]

Just noticed the deadline extension. I'll think abbout this some more.

[Surye]

Seriously, why the fuck do we have to lynch an active player...

What? Why so angry? What are you even talking about?

[Surye]

i was saying that why is he not looking at actove people im sure they are scummy also.

K7's extreme response is one thing, but this line is a big big suspicion to me. "I'm sure they are scummy"? Are you not in this game? Why are you not looking at ANY people? Or are you just coasting through the game, because you know who is scum?

[Surye]

K7 is a way better vote then Cream right now.

Unvote, Vote: K7

[Surye]

I can't resist a good meta case. I still think Cream is scummy though and needs to be looked at.

Unvote, Vote K7

You should probably keep looking into cream then.
armlx i would you outa of everyone here has played with me the most.

Why are you telling people to get off your case and investigate other people? Why don't YOU go investigate Cream yourself and state a good case and get the spotlight off of you? And besides holding off everyone, where's your opinions? What have oyu contributed to the town so far? None of your posts have really helped the town so far, unless your scum, in which case your helping the town immensely right now.

i never said cream was scum, im just saying if armlx has other suspects he should look into it, wagoning me is a waste of time.

Again you divert attention without substance.

[Surye]

That's a scumslip right there. He just admits to knowing i'm town, because if I was scum then the K7 lynch was a massive sucess.

Unvote Vote Kuribo

Still think AJ would be a good scum pick, though.

... what? That made no sense.

[Surye]

Xtomx has absolutely NOTHING here, and his insistence to push it is concerning.

Vote: Xtomx

[Surye]

I still don't like how xotxm got out of a wagon by going "No, power role!!111!!!!" and that's it.

Not as far as I'm concerned, I'm still waiting for a rational explanation of his behavior.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Xtoxm (2): Surye, BlakAdder
Surye (2): springlullaby, Riceballtail
Alabaska J (1): Jebus
kuribo (1): Xtoxm
Jebus (1): farside22
Wall-E (1): Alabaska J
Riceballtail (1): Wall-E

Not voting (10): Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, al4xz, armlx, Cream147, Muerrto, kuribo

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.

[Surye]

I'm on the edge of my seat regarding Wall-E's reply. Even if there was something he could decipher, why did he not offer it up?

Unvote, Vote: Wall-E

Seeing a powerrole claim, and saying nothing on the deadline before the obvious lynching is the scummiest thing you can really do :/

[Surye]

Hmm. I think Wall-E remembered that which I listed above, and then combining it with what he knows now (that K7 was a doc), and figured he claimed doc.

This. Apologies, I'm distracted by school.

It's irrelevant, but why is what I said a potential scumslip?

Wait, what? I want to be clear. Xtoxm softclaiming in day 2 made you think K7 claimed doc at the end of day 1?

[Surye]

Hmm. I think Wall-E remembered that which I listed above, and then combining it with what he knows now (that K7 was a doc), and figured he claimed doc. That's the logical explanation as town. Mafia, he's dead meat.

I don't like you dropping an FOS on the guy... after you make this nice, convenient excuse for him.

This really only makes sense if they are scum buddies. Which they could be, but I'm curious why you vote for al4xz over Wall-E. Do you see a point to al4xz's behavior where Wall-E is town and al4xz is scum?

[Surye]

Vote: al4xz

since I coulda swore I typed that already.

I can endorse this decision. The more I think about it, the more I can see xtoxm just saying the power role thing regardless of actual role or alignment.

Unvote, Vote al4xz

I'm confused You say you think xtoxm is lying, and then vote al4xz?

[Surye]

It's convenient that the explanation that was helpfully supplied to him just so happens to be the truth as he claims it.

And more over, it was a really obscure, convoluted explanation. That someone else provided.

[Surye]

You guys, I'm town. Honest.

Haha.

Unvote

I'm not feeling a Wall-E vote anymore. I think pressure has showed it wasn't a scum slip from Wall-E. al4xz is interesting, I kinda see what he did as strawmanning, since he made up an excuse for Wall-E, then attacked that excuse as an attack against Wall-E. Sure, Wall-E agreed with the excuse, but that was long after.

[Surye]

I can't believe Wall-E still hasn't answered my question satisfactorily and yet people are unvoting him and calling him town.

In what game have you EVER seen a claimed doctor lynched for information only?

Why did you not have a problem with this and instead told people to stop whining about him dying and move on?

Vote's not moving all day.

I just don't see what's scummy about it in the current context. I see it as lazy, since he must not have read back much, but what would be scummy is lynching a claimed doctor, he didn't, he thought we did.

I see it as a lot of things, but I'm just not able to put it to a scummy thing, hence my unvote. Maybe I'm missing something?

[Surye]

EBWOP: What does this accomplish for scum Wall-E?

[Surye]

"...if you were paying attention, you'd know that i'm voting al4xz"

Your ad hominem is noted.

Your lack of understanding of logical fallacies noted.

[Surye]

Sorry for the absence the last couple days, been busy. So, coming back I see a lot on al4xz, and like I said, I didn't like his straw maning, and the more I think about it, the less I think town is likely to act the way he did early on the Wall-E wagon. I still suspect Wall-E, though not enough to vote right now, but al4xz's behavior is explicitly scummy to me.

Vote:Al4xz

[Surye]

I thought we've been over this, but I'll say it again if you really want me to.

Al4xz defended you when you were under fire for a potential scum slip, and you picked up on it and pretty much parroted/quoted what he said while adding no original content. Later, he attacked the defense you gave, which was, in case I need to say it again, the exact same stuff he defended you with. He then starts flailing whenever we start to look at him, and tries to play the newbie card even though he's had his account for almost two years. If you want me to go even more in depth, even some of his earlier actions are indicative are scum buddying.
Anything else?

Started off with him giving excuses for YOU,
Then criticized you and the excuse HE gave,
Reacted badly when the town turned its attention toward him,
Uses language that he doesn't understand in vain attempts to make the case against him look weak,

I attacked the excuse Wall-E gave, not the defense I gave to him. Same goes to Kuribos'. And I'd like to ask how someone can't react badly in the face of YOU cussing in their face.
I already stated that I tried to use terms I don't really understand in a vain attempt to learn how to use them. Seeing as you all discourage this since I've been here for nearly two years, it goes to show why some people think the Mafia community here is degrading - it's because their fucked up members don't let people learn. I stated in the beginning of that post is that how you use it. You people all attack me anyway.

And for your information, how many of you damn people know whether or not I was playing the whole two years? I played... I tihnk it was two games, then I quit until the beginning of school, August-September. Now gimme more shit. That's basically about less than a year of playing.

BlakAdder, by flailing, what the hell do you mean?

You're strawmanning again. We were not attacking the terms you used, but the argument you attempted to label with it. If you had not tried to label it, it would have still been scummy. It has nothing to do with the terminology you used and everything to do with the way you formulated the argument.

[Surye]

Unvote

pending a counterclaim I suppose. I still don't totally like the claim, but it's ballsy. Something I don't like was Wall-E's protest vote. It's spineless and opportunist. Especially with that many votes on him, it allows him to deny any responsibility, since he voted with no case.

Vote: Wall-E

[Surye]

Hold on a sec.

I believe armlx but I have the following to reveal.

I'm a bus driver I exchanged Muerrto and Surey last night so, barring another interference, Surye is scum.

My weak-crumbing bus driver - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76#1300276

I replaced in late during N1 and choose no action.

So then that also makes Muerrto town (because Armlx would have actually investigated Muerrto), if you're telling the truth? Or am I misunderstanding the Bus Driver role?

Surye is not confirmed, but Muerrto is confirmed town. (Provided Armlx is a truthful cop)

And provided SL is really a Bus Driver. Which is something I'm not saying is wrong, but considering we've had a bus driver die already, I'd not take this for granted as you seem to.

[Surye]

And yea,

Unvote

Wall-E can wait, we have 2 scum. Armlx's claim makes a lot more sense, and is proveable. It would make no sense to implicate in game players like this, where as al4xz took a safe set of claims.

Vote: Al4xz

[Surye]

SL - That would just make Muerrto town, not necessarily make Surye scum.

I'm sure you can understand that i'd rather lynch cream today.

Even though it's seems far-fetched for Armlx to be lying here.

Unvote Vote Cream

Unvote Vote Cream

This. After thinking about it again, this should be the best bet to not hit the actual cop, and tomorrow will be given to us. Sorry for the multipost

[Surye]

SL, I thought bus driver was all actions A makes target who B was going to target and visa versa.

You are implying all actions targetting A would be swapped to B and visa versa.

Check your role PM and confirm which of these is true.

If it's the latter, I have a plan. We lynch cream, and SL flips a coin to swap you and al4xz or not. That way scum won't know who is safe to target, essentially turning SL into a protective role. The real cop is dead for sure if we don't, I think this is our best chance. It may kill SL in the process, but we'll get one more investigation, and if SL is telling the truth, he wouldn't last long anyways.

[Surye]

SL, I thought bus driver was all actions A makes target who B was going to target and visa versa.

You are implying all actions targetting A would be swapped to B and visa versa.

Check your role PM and confirm which of these is true.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... Bus_Driver

Still worth waiting for, but this is how I've always heard of Bus Driver.

[Surye]

Its most likely the former of the 2, as that's the standard, in which case Cream should swap the 2 people he thinks are most likely to be scum in order to stop a potential kill.

Based on what? The wiki page is pretty clear... It switches the targets, not the targeters.

[Surye]

That's L-2. Cream, Al4xz, please add something. Your fates are being decided here.

[Surye]

Why?!

Nothing's gonna change anything, just fucking lynch him.

Because every post from a scum is a chance for a slip of information?

[Surye]

Uggggh. So we're just gonna sit here like lemons for 2 days?

How about I full claim to spice things up?

I didn't say stop the votes, I was telling Cream he better hurry up

[Surye]

Slepz - Oct 06
ZazieR - Oct 10 - Nothing said at all yet other then "will read."
Gremwell - Oct 10 - About the same as ZazieR

These are the last post dates for these egregious Lurker/VLAers. Before the day ends, can get get prods?

[Surye]

Bolding for Mod's attention on the last post

[Surye]

MOD: CAN WE GET SOME PRODS?

Gremwell, Azuma, Slepz and Zazier needed to be replaced. Azuma has been replaced, and since Zazier and Gremwell are active on this site I asked them to get back in the game. Still looking for a replacement for Slepz. If you want anyone else to be prodded, please specify the names.

Just remembered this post... Sorry for bugging

[Surye]

AM I THE ONLY VANILLA TOWNIE IN THIS GAME


also

JESUS FIGHTING CHRIST, STOP CLAIMING

way to claim.

[Surye]

Armlx already knows i'm a powerrole, and now he's trying to get me lynched. Plus, what are the chances of finding 2 scum like that in 3 nights? I think Arlmx bussed.

Vote Armlx

Vote: Xtoxm

You've GOT to be kidding me.

[Surye]

Armlx: Lets pressue xtoxm, he acted suspicious with a known scum.
Xtoxm: OMGUS, I semi-claimed, and you're trying to kill me! Even though you full claimed, and had 2 confimed scum results, you must be scum! Lets lynch the claimed power role for trying to lynch a semi-claimed power role!


That's how I saw it. More Xtoxm votes.

[Surye]

Meh, you'll just lynch me anyway, and there's no point telling scum my role.

Either lynch me, or leave me alone.

Scum will know your role the second you're lynched? Are you even TRYING to play pro-town?

[Surye]

Muerrto, Doctor, killed Night 3
Alabaska J, Townie, killed Night 3
al4xz, Mafia Goon, killed Night 3

OMG! GHOSTS!

[Surye]

Sorry, was away for the weekend. But, coming back, I'm willing to look at the Wall-E mess again. I don't like that Xtoxm gets off with a "He's just an idiot", but we can come back to that.

Unvote

Wall-E, kuribo has a really good point that you continue to ignore over and over. How do you explain that little dance you did with al4xz? Also, you're sounding like scum against the ropes. "Anyone who doesn't agree me is a lieing scumbag!" The cases against you make sense, they may be wrong, but they make sense. Town-Wall-E should be looking at them from the perspective of the town, and understand it, and show where it's flawed. You're trying to discredit anyone who says anything bad about you. And it you're planning on claiming later, what will it change now?

Vote:Wall-E

[Surye]

Sorry, was away for the weekend. But, coming back, I'm willing to look at the Wall-E mess again. I don't like that Xtoxm gets off with a "He's just an idiot", but we can come back to that.

You weren't in that game, were you..... (ongoing)

I dunno, I'm feeling like I'm missing something

[Surye]

Merriam-Webster thinks:
Lie
intransitive verb
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression

Why is this important? Because you're using an emotional and misleading word, and you better mean it.

And doc? Really?

[Surye]

This seems like a really good fake claim. He can't be countered, K7 is dead. There's been multiple bus drivers, so he can point at that.

What were your night choices?

[Surye]

That's right, and Muerrto. Man, this game has too many power roles for me to keep straight

[Surye]

On Nov. 11, 2008 at 10:02 PM I sent a PM to the mod saying I'd like to protect Armlx. Scanning through my sentbox, I see no other submitted actions. That's not to say I didn't send more, since the oldest PM in my savebox is from Oct. 27th.

And you don't remember any others?

[Surye]

I agree it looks pretty bad but i'm not happy to lynch him for this...I want a CC to feel comfortable doing that.

You would.

[Surye]

In the future I will, at worst, be able to use this thread as a meta-defense. I pretty much do the opposite of what everyone expects me to do in every possible situation, so I'm not surprised everything I say is apparently a scumtell.

I AM a doc.

Oh, well since you capitalized AM, it must be the truth. How about taking a minute, look at the player list, and try and remember who you protected. Maybe even more will come to you.

[Surye]

And Jebus? There was so much doubt cast on him, there's no way scum would have hit him.

[Surye]

The overwhelming scummyness of them both is frying my scumdar circuits.

[Surye]

Xtoxm's buddying is also pretty suspicious in this light. I wouldn't be opposed with going back to Xtoxm, I left him reluctantly (though Wall-E managed to convince me it wasn't a terrible move).

[Surye]

I'm not sure if this is just him being scum or him being vindictive due to me calling him out for being an idiot.

Yeah, but look at some of the other stuff he's tried to push.

True.

Still think Wall-E is the OBV lynch today.

My question is why Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, RestFermata, springlullaby, farside22 doesn't think so.

[Surye]

My question is why Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, RestFermata, springlullaby, farside22 doesn't think so.

How many of those have posted relevantly since the issue came up?

Answer is 2. SL, who has agreed with the lynch and is holding off the vote, and farside, currently voting xtoxm.

Kinda my point

[Surye]

Slepz was now that I think about it by Netlava, but point remains.

Mod: your VC doesn't reflect the replacement

Yeah forgot, thanks

Mod edit
Votecount:
Wall-E (7): kuribo, Riceballtail, armlx, ThAdmiral, Surye, BlakAdder, Jebus
Xtoxm (2): Wall-E, farside22
farside22 (1): Xtoxm

Not voting (5): Gremwell, Netlava, Zazier, RestFermata, springlullaby

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

[Surye]

I've only participated in one Doc lynch. And he didn't even claim.

So just claiming doc,and giving shitty night choice is enough to stop you from lynching?

[Surye]

After 2 other docs have been mod flipped?

[Surye]

I can't wait to lynch Xtoxm.

[Surye]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

[Surye]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

I stated the vig should shoot Al4 so the bus driver would not switch them.
Reading is tech.

And you were clearly ignored, and yet you still took a chance on a cop? No one agreed with you, and there was still a chance for the switch. It was a TERRIBLE town move, regardless of what you said.

[Surye]

And yes you hit scum. Congrats SK, one step closer to your win condition.

[Surye]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

I stated the vig should shoot Al4 so the bus driver would not switch them.
Reading is tech.

And you were clearly ignored, and yet you still took a chance on a cop? No one agreed with you, and there was still a chance for the switch. It was a TERRIBLE town move, regardless of what you said.

I wasn't ignored Al4 is dead because of me. Not anti town in the least giving a heads up in the game that a target of al4 to the bus drive leads to one dead scum.

You were ignored. There was a chance either way by that plan, you got lucky. You took an unnecissary risk. A very antitown one. When cream flipped scum, al4 was doomed to be lynched. You just risked armlx.

[Surye]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

I stated the vig should shoot Al4 so the bus driver would not switch them.
Reading is tech.

And you were clearly ignored, and yet you still took a chance on a cop? No one agreed with you, and there was still a chance for the switch. It was a TERRIBLE town move, regardless of what you said.

I wasn't ignored Al4 is dead because of me. Not anti town in the least giving a heads up in the game that a target of al4 to the bus drive leads to one dead scum.

You were ignored. There was a chance either way by that plan, you got lucky. You took an unnecissary risk. A very antitown one. When cream flipped scum, al4 was doomed to be lynched. You just risked armlx.

That is a bull. I didn't risk anything by making that statment.
Also I will note that most people voting or pushing are trying to get rid of a claim vig are more likely mafia who are scared that they will be killed.

I didn't say the statment was a risk, the kill was. Reading is tech.

[Surye]

YOU HAVE A GUILTY ON YOU.

Just making sure we are all in reality land.

And we have or had bus drivers in the game. Point?

Point is, there's a guilty SOMEWHERE. No busdrivers are stepping forward as targetting you. Should we mass claim "Not-Bus-Driver-That-Targeted-Farside"? Or do we think a mafia BD is that likely?

[Surye]

Oh yea... kills come after targets, forgot about that. Sorry, MC on that is pretty pointless.

[Surye]

vote: farside

We're not going to find an alternate lynch, and I don't trust she's vig enough to leave it to her without good reason. We've had plenty of time for a bus driver to hint or come out. Armlx got guilty. She'll hang.

[Surye]

THAT is L-1. ThAdmiral had already voted.

[Surye]

Just like how the optimal plan for scum would be to kill a claimed cop who's gotten two of their team outed already?

This is what leads me to believe there is a cocky godfather, or a well played bus driver. Armlx's guilties just don't make sense one little bit as a false claim.

[Surye]

Btw, in for mass claim.

[Surye]

The more I think about it, the more another Bus Driver saving Armlx seems to be possible. Especially since one target that (as far as I am concerned) is a terrible target, was hit by TWO sources. Maybe a MC is not a great idea. We're getting investigations every night as things are now. Since armlx called for the MC, I'd like to hear his thoughts on this.

[Surye]

sens?

Replaced Gremwell.

Vote ThAd

btw. Onward in the name of progress etc etc.

For his ernest to claim, or something more? Not that more is necissarily needed.

[Surye]

I still like Jebus, for relying on the cop to do the scumhunting.

Meh, using a cop result in analysis of play is good scumhunting. You're being ridiculous. FOS on pushing that.

[Surye]

I don't disagree that it's good use, but... that's all that he's done. Very lurky, majority of posts have been active lurky. Hammered cream, probably to look town by following the cop again. After 77 pages, doesn't seem to have done much of anything. I feel like it's a good vote.

This is all good, should have put that with your vote. fos withdrawlded.

[Surye]

What's wrong with following the cop?

That was my first point. Then he pointed out that he's lurked and provided little beyond following you. That is a good point.

[Surye]

I still like Jebus, for relying on the cop to do the scumhunting.

Saying not to look to the cop for results before I go after someone just screams to me that you're scum.

What's wrong with it? The cop is the only 'truth' we can trust at the moment, and it'd be nice to have something to use as a base for assumptions.

You know what smells funny to me? You're echoing exactly what I said, only a little more verbosely. But what you chose to ignore was what he replied to my criticism. The real case against you.

A Jebus vote makes sense to me right now

Vote: Jebus

[Surye]

I still haven't been replaced in this game? :\ Holy crap, I'm sorry guys if I've messed up this game. It's just that large games aren't for me. I'm struggling in the other one I'm in now too. I didn't mean to undermine this game.

And for what it's worth, it's not really much of a large game at this point, with only 10 of us left. I'd be great if you were able to keep playing.

As for the rest of us, we need to get this game going, seriously.

Everyone who is not voting:
Why are you not voting Jebus? I'm not telling you to, I'm asking why your stance on Jebus falls short of a vote. Bonus points: who deserves more attention?

[Surye]

I don't like the Jebus wagon. I'll look back at his posts in iso, but it doesn't seem like there's anything on him besides asking armlx for his result, which doesn't appear as scummy to me, or following the cop. Honestly, I think Forbiddan is scummier for accusing Jebus of being scum solely on this. In fact,

vote: ForbiddanLight

as she's the only lead I have at this point.

...what game are you playing?

[Surye]

I don't like the Jebus wagon. I'll look back at his posts in iso, but it doesn't seem like there's anything on him besides asking armlx for his result, which doesn't appear as scummy to me, or following the cop. Honestly, I think Forbiddan is scummier for accusing Jebus of being scum solely on this. In fact,

vote: ForbiddanLight

as she's the only lead I have at this point.

...what game are you playing?

Specify, please? There are several things that you could be referring to with that post.

The fact that Forbiddan isn't in this game?

[Surye]

@Surye: Sorry, meant Riceballtail. Their avatars confuse me for some reason. Change that to

vote: Riceballtail

@Riceball: The only thing you said was "for relying on the cop to do the scumhunting." If there are other points to the case, why didn't you address them?

I don't disagree that it's good use, but... that's all that he's done. Very lurky, majority of posts have been active lurky. Hammered cream, probably to look town by following the cop again. After 77 pages, doesn't seem to have done much of anything. I feel like it's a good vote.

You've got to start paying attention. He's been doing nothing, the only activity from him has been turning to the cop "Like a good little townie". Look at his posts in isolation, once armlx claims, he practically stops playing.

[Surye]

I have looked at his posts in iso, but lurking and the minor following the cop are the only real scumtells. It isn't really true to say that he shuts up once Armlx claims, because he was lurking just as badly before that.

I didn't say he shut up, I said he stopped playing. They were ALL just following armlx, and the couple posts where he didn't mention armlx, were basically useless "L-1!" is not scum hunting. So he stopped actually playing, and just started following Armlx like a lost puppy.

[Surye]

RBT lynch wouldn't be the worst either. Still sticking to my guns on this vote here.

You seem pretty strong on your vote that I thought was a utility vote to "get things moving". Did I miss a case or something?

[Surye]

Okay, to begin with, the lurkers need to speak up. I have next to nothing to go on right now because the only people left have not said anything recently.

Not entirely true, probably true of about half the people left. Still, that deadline lynch was pathetic, you guys need to participate here. I'll reread a bit to get my baring on these results.

[Surye]

With 3 NKs, tonight could very well be LYLO. We have a good amount of time to discuss this, lets be careful.

[Surye]

N6 that clearly makes this an SK, as no protown player would have killed a cop.

Remember all the bus drivers running around? armlx may not have been the target, and we're bound to have a vig I think.

I await iamausername's case against me, as he's not said a single thing I can address.

Working on my review, been a real busy couple of weeks.

[Surye]

VOTE:Surye

I don't think I need you to post the case. I do like that he's been on every lynch though. I'm liking BA as a secondary candidate as well.

Wow, love the blind following on a very possible LYLO.