Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[DkKoba]

first

[DkKoba]

part of my role is negative utility that has randomness that will be clear when i flip

no further questions on that front

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Anix

this is a leech free zone

[DkKoba]

part of my role is negative utility that has randomness that will be clear when i flip

no further questions on that front

also to add on - the information is 100% in the game, which is like very much something much more understood when my flip is seen

[DkKoba]

first

[DkKoba]

I want to remind everyone the last time I played forum mafia (I want to say 2004? early 2005?) I think only Dragon was on the site and one or more of you might not even have been born so please cut me some slack when I eventually lose the game for the town. I am effectively a newbie and since I just shuttered the newbie queue and fired the newbie mod, I really am rudderless right now.

Anyway, I kind of want to vote Save the Dragons, I really want to be able to say "I haven't played since before any living player joined". Can we make that happen?

coffee tell, we got em

[DkKoba]

this is a random thought but i wanted to share that my playstyle can be compared to morpeko the pokemon


i thought alisae might understand and enjoy that comparison

[DkKoba]

I want to remind everyone the last time I played forum mafia (I want to say 2004? early 2005?) I think only Dragon was on the site and one or more of you might not even have been born so please cut me some slack when I eventually lose the game for the town. I am effectively a newbie and since I just shuttered the newbie queue and fired the newbie mod, I really am rudderless right now.

Anyway, I kind of want to vote Save the Dragons, I really want to be able to say "I haven't played since before any living player joined". Can we make that happen?

coffee tell, we got em

I don't drink coffee.

Anix...we had random voting stage back in the good ol' days too

Oh, I'm aware.

that was a multilayered joke crafted to make sure boomers cant get it sorry

the main takeaway from the coffee tell is the premise is that people use the fact that "they havent drinken coffee yet" to excuse poor posting as scum. ergo i was making a joke that you were making an excuse as to why your play may be weaker, ergo less accurate. Like, sorta like "sorry I made that bad post/bad push, i wasn't 100% at the time". hard to explain tbh its a whole vibe

[DkKoba]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

thats it?

[DkKoba]

my negative utility is way more interesting than that

[DkKoba]

although we gotta think about the fact we have role pools from multiple people.. just realized

part of me wants to say "what if massclaim breaks the setup here" and also the interesting part of the setup is the different role pools and we cant even see that ! messed up

[DkKoba]

{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{AniX}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}

P1.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

WTF I WAS ABOUT TO MAKE MY EARLY READSLIST UR NOT ALLOWED TO BEAT ME TO IT

[DkKoba]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

thats it?

I decline to comment further. Claiming miller is important. I've no need to share more.

would this be Temporary perhaps?

[DkKoba]

I am in the camp of Ranger is lying.
Here is my evidence

do you have a meta page for me

[DkKoba]

not reading lol it's my bed time but i typed this up ahead of time

i can (actually, must) give people control of my vote on even days. please fill out this application (only if you want...) and i will grant my vote to the towniest applicant. some of these questions are relevant to another aspect of my role and some are red herrings.

1) hypothetically, if you have a night action, would you prefer aiming at town, null, or scum? if you don't have a night action please don't out that and just pick what speaks to you so as to not divulge info. before you accuse me of rolefishing please keep in mind everyone is free to disregard this questionaire.
2) if i had control over *your* vote, would you be okay with me disregarding your opinions? i mean i'll generally only be donating my vote to people i townread, but that doesnt mean i'll agree with your reads. and if i'm relinquishing control, it's only fair for you to relinquish something in return!
3) if you could form a neighborhood with two other players on night one, who would you pick?
4) what is your level of spice tolerance? (this one is definitely just a fun red herring)

i look forward to your applications! i feel like my role is more antitown if i go about it privately. i'll reiterate that i can't vote on even days so prepare for some shitposts.

starting to think we are in the same listmod pool of roles with this neg utility stuff

[DkKoba]

dragoneater is the most obvious town in the game

[DkKoba]

has everyone posted atleast once yet? Specifically has everyone who is neg utility claimed? There's something fun we can do with the claims + I think it's appropriate for me to fullclaim based on gamestate soon(but also we already have a fairly breakable aspect i think)

[DkKoba]

I know, like I said, you are now at the bottom.

/serious
Care to explain why?

This is a game where it is quite clear there are roles that are triggered or controlled by how people post during the day. MULTIPLE users said or implied this was true of their role. Someone literally using the hurt tag and then giving an unconvincing "This is actually a joke, pay no attention to my specific use of this tag I was just shitposting" makes it look like you are trying to use the hurt tag to trigger an ability and then try to obscure you used it for that purpose. And if that is the case, one really must wonder what town role was written to feature the Hurt tag so prominently.

Vote DragonEater70

can you point to any other part of their play that implies they are scum bc frankly that's easily overlookable when compared to their very clearly pure posting

[DkKoba]

Do yourself a favor and read the first few oages of that game:

viewtopic.php?t=91177

just a word of advice, would ignore this lane of attack towards you and not turn it into a back and forth of this nitpicking. Make them broaden their read basically.

Already can see multiple people find it a bit of an absurd point *especially* with context that you provided.

I think you've projected town fairly strongly so I'm highly critical of anyone trying to latch onto stuff like this to push your slot

[DkKoba]

Why is anix still alive

Ah, here is the (now) second most suspicious person in the game, right on cue to cape for the first most suspicious.

Mafia Hunter Paragon is the Scummie for catching Mafia, right? I won't lie, I am going to be smug AF if my first game in 20 years I peg the mafia team day 1.

no offense but this is kinda a series of pretty shallow takes that doesn't really consider the context or attempt to find supporting evidence ...
You may have noticed that I have yet to move my vote of you. At some point early on that vote secretly became serious because of the aforementioned "coffee tell" joke I told. It was actually scummy to me that you were making preemptive excuses and I was waiting to see how you would trend. To start scumreading people with processes like this is concerning to me. Granted I cannot always attribute to malice what could be explained by something else - so I'm laying out what I personally am observing to you to see if I can redirect you to a more effective line, if that is to prove better your point against dragoneater/std with stronger arguments, or to acknowledge the read was premature and/or has more evidence pointing to the opposite, we don't care - just that you help us see better your process and to strengthen it to get a higher potential of play out.

[DkKoba]

Like I think dragoneater has shown a pretty eager willingness to solve and curiosity in their play that is towny in nature - there are points of light naivety that make me feel that they are definitely not informed and their explanations feel natural and at ease, minus the frustration of what is undoubtedly an untrue accusation against their slot.

Im on mobile but I struggle to see how dragoneater is anything but independent. Call it TMI if you want, but even in scum me world that still implies they are town.

[DkKoba]

Anix, I'd appreciate you address the point I made about expanding on your read on Dragoneater, as if you believe it's a slam dunk thing that they are scummy for the role thing, then it should go without question you can look at the rest of their play and see how that looks from a scum pov, or if it doesn't match up. Deflecting doesn't work on me, I'm stubborn ;P

[DkKoba]

Ranger
AniX
Skygazer
Cook
JasonWazza
DragonEater70
JasonWazza
DkKoba
Save The Dragons

These are my reads so far. If your name isn't present it means you didn't leave an impression.

I am actually scumreading STD.

VOTE: STD

Wazza hasn't even posted mate

[DkKoba]

there are no rules on any mechanic not existing except for any factions beyond town and mafia
post restrictions are thus possible
however if we assume each of the listmods went with a theme and only one of them did post restrictions
that is still only a max of four post restriction roles if all of them got picked which is not a massive amount

and then there is me with effectively vanilla town unless i get turned into a miller somehow
like really
even if i am somehow recruited by scum my ability continues to not really be useful for my wincon in that event
so i do think there are a few negative utility roles out there probably

Yup. I'm in the Miller-esque role category

[DkKoba]

(Ironic that bingle is side pushing me bc that was my second scumread but now it's gonna look like I omgused that read )
I will say the reason is that I didn't get good vibes from bingle thumb twiddling mechs here more than anything after being on a TM team with him and all, wasn't going to say anything bc obviously that's plausibly still town, just something to consider in their holistic play as a minus.

[DkKoba]

First, we ignore literally every mechpost, because mechposts have nothing to do with alignment, but rather mechanical intelligence, and mechanical intelligence is not AI. Second, we realize that AniX comes from a time when the Earth had yet to cool and the atmosphere was still mostly sulfur, and so their posting also needs to be viewed through that lens where post restrictions and mechsolves are common place and that's just how town is supposed to approach the game. Third, we ask ourselves "Does scum really fake a readslist with two players who haven't posted surrounding a player who has if they're tryharding". Fourth we realize that if we look tryhard up in the dictionary there's a picture of AniX staring at a picture of Taylor Swift.

Yeah, this is why I am not scumreading AniX even though I disagree with 80% of their reads and arguments.

Also I think Bingle is very townie for making this post.

What about the post is townie, and can you summarize what Anix has done this game?"
I do not think they have said much of value so I'm frankly confused as hell where people are getting this towny anix vibe unless they aren't really reading the posts ?

[DkKoba]

Like I'm pretty sure the disagreement is likelier to come from the fact they just don't have the same POV as you as an uninformed townie and .. yeah.

Be more critical, don't give free pases for people spewing nonsense takes ty

[DkKoba]

name 3 substantive thing anix has said

[DkKoba]

but now it's gonna look like I omgused that read

The fact that you are worried about that is not +town. In fact, it's very very -town.

VOTE: Koba

Also I don't like that they don't even explain the SR on Bingle.

Being insightful enough to understand how others may perceive something is not scummy mate. Been around the block long enough.

Don't use shortcuts

[DkKoba]

name 3 substantive thing anix has said

koba says this knowing that there is only 2 thing (joke)

From what I read it's 0.5, so I'd line to see what others say. There is a lot of thumb twiddling from anix around this and Idt they are even bothering to solve anyone during this which is telling tbh.

[DkKoba]

Can you explain why you weren't gonna say anything about your second biggest scumread? I find this ludicrous.

You need to stop skimming my dude

[DkKoba]

name 3 substantive thing anix has said

koba says this knowing that there is only 2 thing (joke)

From what I read it's 0.5, so I'd line to see what others say. There is a lot of thumb twiddling from anix around this and Idt they are even bothering to solve anyone during this which is telling tbh.

Solving for roles in this specific game is more valuable and substantive than you "solving" your day 1 vibes or whatever you are trying to assert you are doing I am not.

I don't think you've done anything rolewise that doesn't fall into plausible scum info searching so not a great point !

[DkKoba]

Dragon I totally sympathixe with the "why didn't I kill the person with the absurd take and bin them as town for it" bc that used to be my greatest weakness and still is to some degree . My last game on this site I gave shea a pass for making absurd pushes on me and only woke up day 3 to it

[DkKoba]

I think softclaims should happen so people are unable to go back on their claim once I reveal the OP part of my role, but that's a kinda "bro trust me l" situation.

So once the third neg utility claimed this game, I realized that we must be part of one of the listmods themed submissions.

We can be reasonably sure that at *most* only 1 person Claiming neg utility is a mafia member at most if less than 5 and if 5 or more that means we should kill within that pool.

[DkKoba]

Oh, I was going to make a post detailing all the instances where Koba "gave advice" in a stilted post restricty way but I ended binning the post and my vote change with it. I'll still make the post when I have a moment (hopefully later tonight because I'll be gone from midday tomorrow until midday saturday), but let me get the vote change out of the way first.

Unvote DragonEater70
Vote DkKoba

I have the 'tism and am intentionally putting in an effort to not sound rude/condescending while still trying to get my point across. There's your explanation for "stiltedness".
I will inform you that many a scum player has seen my playstyle, thought it would be an easy slam dunk miselimination, then had it bite them in the ass


For you to get defensive and attempt to deflect onto me instead of explaining yourself in response, is a horrible look. I'm trying to get answers out of you. You still have not given them and then have the audacity to then go as far as to pretend like my speaking style is "scummy".

[DkKoba]

std koba buddying? might have to modify my viewpoint

Or maybe dragoneater is a very easy read and I know they're new and want to help them?
Please don't forget to consider the plausible towny reasons for people doing things b4 you go " super friendly to player = Mafia"

[DkKoba]

UNPOPULAR OPINION (please read):

We

shouldn't

massclaim. We also

shouldn't

have a fight between team Koba and team AniX.
I think scum is in the lurkers. Let's wait for them to show up and then vote whoever is scummiest.

Ok well I have a role that specifically can catch out liars wrt role claims so I'm a little biased here towards some level if claiming + the setup isn't balanced at all ergo low power roles should be happy to just claim

And there's a potential of breaking the setup

[DkKoba]

std anix distancing?

so true

[DkKoba]

Anix is blathering away about nothing in every post

i don't know about you but seems like they're trying to scumcase koba rn

idk who said to stop the anix v koba thing but that's probably a good idea too

UNVOTE:

can you summarize the scumcase

[DkKoba]

anyways I'll reveal some of my role: i flip as a random role within the setup.

[DkKoba]

And when the person with that role flips, my real flip is revealed

[DkKoba]

Very unusual, bordering on strange, bordering on bizarre that you directly claimed, less than an hour and a half ago, that the purpose of your posting was to get answers I was refusing to give...but can't seem to find a question to ask me when pressed.

me when I say things to say them

[DkKoba]

I basically think anix is using 10 words to provide 1 word of info intentionally puffing up their posts

we r in sync

[DkKoba]

I mean like to me anix is doing that kind of blatant mafia thing of having 0 read depth and all their pushes are based on things that appear negative and antitown on the surface but are easily explained via any level of context.

Anix has yet to explain beyond dragon's role thing and my supposed "stilted tone" why we are scum. Like I'm kinda sure they froze up hard when called out for how they pushed dragoneater tbh

(Also just realized we have 2 Dragons and it's gonna be rough for me tbh tbh)

[DkKoba]

Hey if we're considering mass claiming, how about mass claiming the color of our role PM?

I do not think it's ethical to openly talk about mod communication.

[DkKoba]

Anix is blathering away about nothing in every post

i don't know about you but seems like they're trying to scumcase koba rn

idk who said to stop the anix v koba thing but that's probably a good idea too

UNVOTE:

can you summarize the scumcase

im not anix and tbh i didn't take in half of it but its basically because of how your posts were (anix thought you had a post restriction) and also about answering questions in an awful manner

And you think this is a reasonable town line of thought ?

[DkKoba]

Like nothing indicates actual curiosity about my role from anix, only intent to use it against me.

[DkKoba]

Ranger
AniX
Skygazer
Cook
JasonWazza
DragonEater70
JasonWazza
DkKoba
Save The Dragons

These are my reads so far. If your name isn't present it means you didn't leave an impression.

I am actually scumreading STD.

VOTE: STD

oh no
bingle is mafia
its cuz he has jason listed twice

I didn't even notice that, I just saw he listed a player who didn't talk

[DkKoba]

How convenient that Weird Dreams Mafia seems to have a joke to cover every single suspicious thing a user has done today. Truly the swiss army knife of games. All of this setting aside that a list mod making one or more abilities off this game that everyone seems to know about already would be perfectly mundane. Hell, I would say it would even be expected.

I am very comfortable with where my vote is right now. Either you haven't been reading the game (sus) and thus didn't know to be careful with post triggers or your post triggers on Hurt.

Have you considered that your logic isn't alignment indicative?

My argument is that they know and it's intentional!

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Bingle
I'll probably also vote Anix

this towncore that's forming is kinda lit ngl

[DkKoba]

tbh bingle with anix is exactly the level 1 combo that gives me pause if it's not too easy and they're just kinda just happening to hit those notes rn, but it's not like for anix that they've attempted to be any more open about their reasoning (although to be fair players are readable beyond this but certain ways of going about this make me doubt this? Like one has to wonder how I went from one of anix's top townreads into a scumread that is a vote coincidentally after I clarified my stance on them.)
Like the argument that I white knighted dragoneater doesn't really hold up bc I said the slot was obvtown b4 anyone pushed it

In fact it's odd that anix was not curious about that either bc where did that peogrssion go like why did the read just change and nothing that looks unresolved from a pov of someone starting to suspect our 2 slots makes sense from a genuine pov

[DkKoba]

peogression

[DkKoba]

I think Cook spiritually vibes w/ me

if anix mafia we got a towncore of StD, you, me, cook, and dragoneater ez game

I think theta is pretty obviously town bc of that role madness town vibe where townies will sometimes talk about their role in a way that's just super natural and genuine. (The geneal lean is always that in a role madness game, townies with not OP roles will be open about their role, and mafia will be closed about their role unless they got some part that can be proven and can seem townie)

[DkKoba]

I know solving mechs is cringe *but* I think the miller claims are town too inherently, like Ranger, bc of the mechanic of role submission implies that with this many coincidences, a single listmod submitted those roles and ergo since they can only submit 1 mafia role then you can't have 2 of the same theme generally.

Lilith, tbone and PP give me the vibe they'd do a themed set of roles. ss is totally the type to do more cheeky normalish roles and idk implosion he might have a freaky side

I'm like certain the role I have is from Tbone based on its name fwiw and so are the other ones(we can potentially pool some roles via naming mechanics too)

[DkKoba]

if anix mafia we got a towncore of StD, you, me, cook, and dragoneater ez game

you should be adding aureal, katy, and probably skygazer to that townbloc

im kinda on the fence on skygazer being town at all, idk about Katy yet(honestly leaned mafia on that slot mostly but i had bigger fish to look at), aureal maybe but idt they reach the bar for towncore yet

[DkKoba]

Me: "I am deciding things based on what I believe people's roles are"
You: "But why haven't you considered DragonEater's vibes?"
Me: "I do not believe that is a valuable criteria at this point and in this game."
You, later: "Really weird AniX hasn't explained why the vibes randomly changed for me and why he was not curious about other vibe-based criteria"

To clear up anyone reading: this is Politifact Verified False. What was asked was an entirely open ended question about their thought process, nothing specific was nitpicked. They were asked to elaborate on where the change came from, and now it's being framed as if I mentioned "vibes", and not simply asked

This has been a back and forth for a bit and i kinda have given up by this point trying to get an answer bc I have concluded the reason it hasn't come yet is because it won't because anix is mafia caught in an awkward situation of not wanting to elaborate a fake read progession.

Like it's been a cycle of lame excuses why anix can't look through and find more points that indicate dragoneater or I are scum, and frankly their initial reasons were classic scum reasonings(although not necessarily always scum, but scummy logic nevertheless)

[DkKoba]

I think Cook spiritually vibes w/ me

if anix mafia we got a towncore of StD, you, me, cook, and dragoneater ez game

I think theta is pretty obviously town bc of that role madness town vibe where townies will sometimes talk about their role in a way that's just super natural and genuine. (The geneal lean is always that in a role madness game, townies with not OP roles will be open about their role, and mafia will be closed about their role unless they got some part that can be proven and can seem townie)

I read this quickly as you talking about yourself, not Theta.....was gonna say lol.

off the top of my head, here’s people i think have been making an impact and in what order

Koba
AniX
Alisae
Fenrir
DragonEater
Bingle
Ranger
Theta
CamelCasedSnivy
Ircher
KKFC

if i am missing your name you haven’t posted recently or i straight up forgot you existed

I see how it is....

I know solving mechs is cringe *but* I think the miller claims are town too inherently, like Ranger, bc of the mechanic of role submission implies that with this many coincidences, a single listmod submitted those roles and ergo since they can only submit 1 mafia role then you can't have 2 of the same theme generally.

Lilith, tbone and PP give me the vibe they'd do a themed set of roles. ss is totally the type to do more cheeky normalish roles and idk implosion he might have a freaky side

I'm like certain the role I have is from Tbone based on its name fwiw and so are the other ones(we can potentially pool some roles via naming mechanics too)

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but what does it matter what list mid chose what?

The mechanics specifically state that each listmod sent 4 town, 1 mafia role. This is why a group of themed roles can be seen to have exactly 1 mafia at most if it's reasonable to believe it only came from 1 listmod.


(If they were allowed to communicate with eachother during the submission process this is void and tbh lame but if not it's super relevant)

[DkKoba]

Me: "I am deciding things based on what I believe people's roles are"
You: "But why haven't you considered DragonEater's vibes?"
Me: "I do not believe that is a valuable criteria at this point and in this game."
You, later: "Really weird AniX hasn't explained why the vibes randomly changed for me and why he was not curious about other vibe-based criteria"

To clear up anyone reading: this is Politifact Verified False. What was asked was an entirely open ended question about their thought process, nothing specific was nitpicked. They were asked to elaborate on where the change came from, and now it's being framed as if I mentioned "vibes", and not simply asked

This has been a back and forth for a bit and i kinda have given up by this point trying to get an answer bc I have concluded the reason it hasn't come yet is because it won't because anix is mafia caught in an awkward situation of not wanting to elaborate a fake read progession.

Like it's been a cycle of lame excuses why anix can't look through and find more points that indicate dragoneater or I are scum, and frankly their initial reasons were classic scum reasonings(although not necessarily always scum, but scummy logic nevertheless)

Keep up, we already did this bit and it ended with you getting mad I asked you if you had a second question you wanted answered.

Listen I have given you the standards set to be potentially townread by me(granted thats not the only way but its the best known active way of getting there), if you want to sit down and be cross and not allow me to understand what you are thinking , I can't work with that.
Like the idea is to broaden your view, look at contextual evidence and not just the surface level and then present a conclusion.
I'm not like I used to be - I'm not shut down to reading you town. I see a small percent chance you might be. I don't know you. You might genuinely think this way due to the lack of mafia experience and I'm just placing your standards too high. But I can't figure that out without basic answers, or acknowledgements that things are proven not sufficient evidence.
Humility when proven wrong is a pro town trait.

Prove to us that you aren't pushing dragon and me in bad faith with fake looking reasoning.

[DkKoba]

(Ironic that bingle is side pushing me bc that was my second scumread but now it's gonna look like I omgused that read )
I will say the reason is that I didn't get good vibes from bingle thumb twiddling mechs here more than anything after being on a TM team with him and all, wasn't going to say anything bc obviously that's plausibly still town, just something to consider in their holistic play as a minus.

Oooh, I like talking about Bingle.

What exactly is different about my play here and my play in TM? Why do you think it's scum indicative?

Mostly think your approach to mechs matches more to how you interacted with pink ball and me in the chat, hard to explain how that carries over
Granted you are a very peculiar and unique player archetype so I have to acknowledge this could be just you being you. The defense of anix and attack towards me felt in the moment pretty scum motivated in an anix scum world(thus why anix flip first before I would pursue you, although I would believe a scum flip from you would implicate anix, but a town flip would say not much, while a town flip from anix would look better for you)

[DkKoba]

Yeah, but they being artificially nice about it.

I haven't been reading 'nice' into Koba's play. Condescending, sure, but that's not really AI for them. What I think is slightly scummy from them is the push on you, which reads incredibly surface level and doesn't sound to me like something Koba would push. To reference TM, this is like Fate in my game. You're both from a completely different era of mafia and in that game there was a significant amount of taking that into consideration that just feels absent here.

Well if my reasonings have been surface level, everyone else must be in the kiddie pool

[DkKoba]

We can be reasonably sure that at *most* only 1 person Claiming neg utility is a mafia member at most if less than 5 and if 5 or more that means we should kill within that pool.

The premise here seems to be that you think only one of the submitters would submit neg utility roles. Do you have anything to support this theory? Because I would actually expect an average of 1 negative utility role from each submitter and would thus expect a large number of town roles with at least some negative utility involved.

nah still pretty sure tbone is like the only one who would submit several

You'd have a point if there was like 2 but there's like 4+

[DkKoba]

I wouldn't try to buddy koba lol

Why? It's so easy.

pocketing me is like pocketing a hand grenade

[DkKoba]

i AtE them all

[DkKoba]

DragonEater70
Theta Alpine
Ranger
-
Save The Dragons
Alisae
Cook
Doctor Drew
-
camelCasedSnivy
Skygazer
-
Bingle
AniX


wow even sorting by TR reaches a similar conclusion p much huh.

no informed opinion
KatyKimFanClub - lean scum
JasonWazza - damn this guy probably getting replaced
Random Nurse - have actually not read a single post if they have posted
Ircher - same
Aureal - their posting style is one of my kryptonites bc it feels pure but in a sorta manipulative way

[DkKoba]

We can be reasonably sure that at *most* only 1 person Claiming neg utility is a mafia member at most if less than 5 and if 5 or more that means we should kill within that pool.

The premise here seems to be that you think only one of the submitters would submit neg utility roles. Do you have anything to support this theory? Because I would actually expect an average of 1 negative utility role from each submitter and would thus expect a large number of town roles with at least some negative utility involved.

nah still pretty sure tbone is like the only one who would submit several

You'd have a point if there was like 2 but there's like 4+

What I'm saying is I'd vaguely expect the average number of negative utility submissions among town submissions to be 1. We're looking at a setup of 17/24 submissions, which means that probably 2-3 scum submissions were dropped and 4-5 town submissions were dropped. So presumably we have 12OR13/18 town roles in play. That leaves us with a mathematical model of (1 * 6 negative utility roles) * (2/3) individual role inclusion, assuming that town can accurately judge whether their role is ACTUALLY negative utility and there aren't false negatives or false positives. That gives me a rough expectation of 4 negative utility town roles actually existing, with significant room for that number to be larger or smaller, based on how 6 different individuals approached balance. Then you get into roles like mine which probably aren't really negative utility but rather anti snowball roles, and I have very little faith in a lim in/out of negative utility claims strat.

well im combining math with what i know about the listmods, having had played a setup by each of them at least once. actually i forgot sircakez but i dont think he is into negative utility so that is irrelevant.

this is a fun game where we can gleam who submitted who as part of our reading process and thats likely why we were told the split of who submitted how many.

[DkKoba]

ali either randed a good team if mafia or is simply town

*looks at PL*

i say town

[DkKoba]

(not to say you all are not skilled at being mafia, i just dont think you would be the type to elevate ali's morale to this level)

[DkKoba]

maybe im wrong ive read staggeringly little

but im resonating with what bingle is putting down too

counterargument: who is mafia then

(i personally have 5 slots that are unranked and potential scum but the questions stands)

[DkKoba]

see theres this thing where people keep calling anix scummy for focusing on mech/roles and anix still isnt moving away from that mode of thinking which is probably a town trait especially for someone who hasn't played in quite a while

thats not why i find them scummy, its that if we assume this world where anix is truly only caring about that, they are doing it in a scummy way still.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: nurse

flashwagon, im convinced for now bc of the commitment from anix but im still keeping a very close eye on the slot and it hasnt really moved a bit + i hated nurse's entrance post right there tbh tbh

[DkKoba]

DragonEater: Hurt Tag usage as power activator

what is this even based on

The fact multiple people have indicated they have a post based trigger (myself included, so I know there is at least one) and DragonEater's awkward dance for trying to include the tag. It was strengthened when Koba, who I was independently reading as connected to DragonEater in some way, started really getting aggressive with me RIGHT after I pointed it out. I am still not SURE of it, could legitimately be something else or nothing at all, which is why I'm voting Koba and not DragonEater, but it is Day 1 and I don't think I need to be sure of everything to still think it is worthy of bringing up and seeing what sticks.

ok well im part of the miller gang and have nothing to do with post triggers, although if we have a massclaim of who has post triggers we can create another "probably only 1 scum in here max" grouping

[DkKoba]

@Katy Ali plays fast and loose with the vibe reads. The trick is keeping em out of their own head and invested in the game long enough for their reads to be useful.

Think I'm in a weird spot as a new player in a game w/ a lot of weird roles and really experienced players w/ entrenched playstyles this game.
I solemnly vow that I will read AniX/Koba/Bingle posts and come to a (at least one but no promises) opinion by EOD.

kinda towny kkfc post but i would be a fool to use it to townlock them.. off my radar for now

[DkKoba]

AniX/Koba/Bingle

Don't worry about it so much. I'm pretty notoriously unreadable and I'm pretty sure neither me nor Koba has any solid idea of what the other is actually trying to do right now other than figure out what the other is trying to do.

it does not help that we have disagreements on certain mechanical aspects as I tend to heavily influence my mech ideology with dayplay and attempting to read the mod meta

[DkKoba]

its only been 24 hours? coulda sworn we've been here like a week

[DkKoba]

ali either randed a good team if mafia or is simply town

*looks at PL*

i say town

The game just started. This is a strange take.

no it isnt, what does the time of the game having gone on have to do with anything? don't project onto me!

[DkKoba]

ngl would be funny if anix is acutally town and nurse is mafia with ircher and ircher kinda panic spewed all those posts bc that vote totally looks like an afterthought after all that

[DkKoba]

isnt nurse vla

scum tend to lean into being busy to avoid needing to fake content, town tend to feel obligated to show up to keep up

[DkKoba]

im not voting them to make them show up but like to see how they react when they do show up ( and I also forgot they were v/la)

[DkKoba]

Hey all, just checking in.

I'll try to make time to read up tonight.

Also, heads-up,

I'm strictly V/LA on Thursday/Friday/Saturday.

21 pages already. Wow. OK, so I'm at work currently, but this job isn't nearly as bad as my FT one, so I'll have time to read up. After med pass I'll have time to start reading and posting as I go.

oh yikes their only 2 posts are content promises, well i think I like keeping my vote to incentivize the promise being kept, the first post makes the 2nd worse tbh

[DkKoba]

random nurse flashwagon prob has scum on it. maybe. or also possibly not. it's a complete mystery. every time i try to think its just "you should go outside and dig thru the ash tray for cigarette butts"

idt theres anything to indicate there is scum on it and i townread everyone who placed a vote so eh

like anix wagon kinda got boring bc anix didnt really do anything, wagoning jingle is useless for the most part atp, and the nurse post was just too stinky to me



what do u think about ircher's reentrance here

[DkKoba]

yes but repeated broken promises bad

also its wednesday ,not thursday

[DkKoba]

what do u think about ircher's reentrance here

i have no strong opinion one way or the other. nothing jumps out to me about it, why?

felt kinda jagged and pointless ? like more trying to push back against the strong vibes the core of people voting together have developed type of vibe idk if u get what i mean. like trying to break a towncore type vibe

[DkKoba]

yes but repeated broken promises bad

also its wednesday ,not thursday

i mean their first post said "i'll try to" and their second post was an hour and a half ago which can easily be filled w work tasks even on a light day

i think ur being a lil unreasonable. ive done the same thing RN is doing as town before and for longer stretches than 24 hours

10 hour work days are warping my perception of time tbh tbh

[DkKoba]

tbh the only other person i would want to wagon is ircher bc they were also in my ?? slot and i would like them to elaborate better


i hate being back in the spot of "idk fam" but also im still kinda shocked that it only has been 24 hours, i play mafia at the speed of light like a dummy

[DkKoba]

i would like to thank random nurse for having posted in a thread for a votecounter that works with the new site

now i might actually start running games on this site again

[DkKoba]

my lightning fast meta dive establishes a baseline that maintains a scum vibe on random nurse and finds the vote appropriate now.

your move, nurse.

[DkKoba]

isnt nurse vla

scum tend to lean into being busy to avoid needing to fake content, town tend to feel obligated to show up to keep up

1) Activity is not indicative of alignment.

2) I'm starting to read the thread so be patient.

the way you contribute during periods of low activity is indicative! as many here know, false promises of content are a >rand scum trait after all.

I do find it weird you are reading without contributing as you go, a bit odd for you, would you say?

[DkKoba]

lol i think nurse may have a bit of a volume tell - within both post count and post density.


we will see tho once nurse returns from the bowels of the thread while doing supposed reading and analyzing

[DkKoba]

what if he comes back with something good

then mission accomplished, player is reliably readable

[DkKoba]

votecount 1.04

happy baldur's gate 3 eve to all who celebrate

3 players voting for Random Nurse (Cook, Alisae, Doctor Drew)
3 players voting for DkKoba (AniX, KatyKimFanClub, Ircher)
2 players voting for AniX (DkKoba, Save The Dragons)
1 player voting for Doctor Drew (Ranger)
1 player voting for Alisae (Aureal)
1 player voting for Aureal (Skygazer)
1 player voting for Save The Dragons (Bingle)
1 player voting for Skygazer (camelCasedSnivy)

4 players not voting (Random Nurse, JasonWazza, Theta Alpine, DragonEater70)

with 17 votes, it takes 9 to eliminate.

mod notes: as noted in rule 19, some PMs may differ in formatting from the sample role PM in the rules. Ranger is V/LA. I interpreted 402 as a vote for Bingle and then an immediate vote for AniX, which means Bingle momentarily had two votes. re:416, doing that as soon as I post this votecount! I made the swap in the list of players but not the list of living players. that being said I generally treat pre-game replacements as though the player was always in the slot.

VOTE: nurse

flashwagon, im convinced for now bc of the commitment from anix but im still keeping a very close eye on the slot and it hasnt really moved a bit + i hated nurse's entrance post right there tbh tbh

hello i am asking if the vote appearing in the votecount is correct, attached is my most recent vote

[DkKoba]

this is the part where theta reveals the shadow-hydra neighborhood with aliana

[DkKoba]

VOTE: doctor drew

like him for scum better than any others w more votes tbh

went back to refresh my memory on drew baseline play bc i remember the guy is super mislim bait despite feeling p readable for me, vote feels fine, i think nurse is a good vote too, moreso so shrug.

feasible that the drew vote on nurse can be a bus one

if i had to gth solve rn - nurse/ircher/drew/wazza ? jury on anix is still out tho - hoping to see a development past trying to only purely talk mechs and discuss stances too.

[DkKoba]

this is the part where theta reveals the shadow-hydra neighborhood with aliana

I had a feeling, I knew this hydra was a setup

Pre Edit: Koba have we enjoyed each others presence before?

a few years back yes,
cultd3 immediately comes to mind as 1 example

[DkKoba]

i sure am so concerned about PR hunting in a game where every player has is a PR

[DkKoba]

i sure am so concerned about PR hunting in a game where every player has is a PR

How would you know that?

did u not read the description for the game u signed up for

hello! this is a 17-player game with 4 mafia roles and 13 town roles. the 6 current list mods each submitted 4 roles (1 mafia and 3 town). I randomly selected 17 of those 24 roles, ensuring that each person had at least one role included. they did not communicate about their designs with each other.

[DkKoba]

lowkey kinda think u are trying to pretend like u are "uninformed" about there being PRs to feign towniness bc i find your progression in the above kinda ??? where you landed on with me/anix somehow being paired(??) and then trying to call std/myself/anix as having mafia, a grouping I think *now* has a decent chance of being pure tbh tbh

[DkKoba]

nurse be like, we can't have townies collaborating in this thread, you're all scum

[DkKoba]

your scumlean list is rubbish and has 1 scum at best tbh tbh
my reason was perfectly valid bc your meta suggests you do promises of activity in this way rather than your town games where I saw you consistently trying to interact with the game directly

You sound defensive and trying to break up a good towncore tbh tbh

[DkKoba]

Omg it's so opportunistic to vote a person who promised content twice within a short time period and then didn't deliver and has a history of doing so as scum

[DkKoba]

it is a bit insulting you've called us opportunistic

If you're town you're being obnoxiously entitled to doing nothing and having active players give you a free pass while they are heavily contributing

Step up instead of complaining

[DkKoba]

it is a bit insulting you've called us opportunistic

If you're town you're being obnoxiously entitled to doing nothing and having active players give you a free pass while they are heavily contributing

Step up instead of complaining

Again, you're saying this while ignoring the three posts I've made reading through all 26 pages of this game.

My vote happened before that post and time machines aren't real

[DkKoba]

me & koba this game

Opportunistic tbh tbh

[DkKoba]

it is a bit insulting you've called us opportunistic

If you're town you're being obnoxiously entitled to doing nothing and having active players give you a free pass while they are heavily contributing

Step up instead of complaining

Again, you're saying this while ignoring the three posts I've made reading through all 26 pages of this game.

My vote happened before that post and time machines aren't real

Yeah but you saying I've done nothing and haven't contributed happened AFTER I literally read all 26 pages and shared those posts where I responded to what other players have said.

do you know what past tense is? And I judge your activity by the quality of it. We haven't voted wazza bc hey, they have not made an expectation of anything.

I find it hard to read this kind of 1 dimensional play bc yes it does come from town sometimes - going off the baseline of play established in other games by you, I lean scum off that *but it is a large game here and that is a factor I consider.

That being said otoh your statements lean genuine here.

VOTE: drew

[DkKoba]

the fact we are shifting wagons like this with a flow feels very gamestate healthy for finding out scum

[DkKoba]

I kinda think anix has strong potential to be town but std is right on the perspective that the reads are kinda derived from objectively poor reasoning

When solving with mech, it's never about "this role sounds scummy" and as I mentioned earlier, open role usage/claiming in role madness is objectively more likely to be town.

[DkKoba]

I kinda think anix has strong potential to be town but std is right on the perspective that the reads are kinda derived from objectively poor reasoning

When solving with mech, it's never about

"this role sounds scummy"

and as I mentioned earlier, open role usage/claiming in role madness is objectively more likely to be town.

That is not even my argument. It has never been my argument. You will not find that argument from me about any role at any point in this game.

The two people I have attempted to explore if they were mafia through roles are someone who's ability I suspect REQUIRES open role usage to work (and thus it being openly used would not be town-aligned) and someone whose role I am arguing is different from the role they are suggesting they are.

That is how I perceive it. Elaborate better as you've been asked to multiple times and we won't won't misunderstand ?

[DkKoba]

Are you suggesting koba and I are coordinating somehow

they're onto us

[DkKoba]

cannot decide if drewposting is +town or -town

i think +town

drew can be town

why did you vote in the first place ?

[DkKoba]

I think there is currently theatering going on. I will not say with who. This is just to inspire fear into the pair if I'm right

[DkKoba]

@alisae lmk thoughts if you think I'm right about the theater stuff if u know what I'm seeing in the last few pages

[DkKoba]

@alisae lmk thoughts if you think I'm right about the theater stuff if u know what I'm seeing in the last few pages

i have 2 replies to this
one of them is the truth the other is a lie

1 - I'm blind so I don't see anything
2 - ya I know EXACTLY what it is you're talking about ya those guys are FUCKED lets let em know we know who they are as this will allow us to effectively strike fear into their souls

50/50 is good odds.

[DkKoba]

i think std is either town or scum with anix cuz i see no reason for std to go out of their way to scumcase anix

How about we lim anix and find out

do u tr drew

[DkKoba]

i think std is either town or scum with anix cuz i see no reason for std to go out of their way to scumcase anix

How about we lim anix and find out

do u tr drew

No? I'm voting drew

these wagons have moved so much i have forgotten whos where tbh tbh

i think theres like this specific type of gamestate resistance to drew that implies we are actually hitting gold vs how it felt wagoning anix and random nurse

(im kinda leaning town on anix atp sry, but like its the type of townread that is easily discarded if future evidence doesnt imply towniness from the slot etc)

kinda unironically think drew is mafia bc of how hollow they feel and its like in the face of knowing they are mislim bait often.

[DkKoba]

but also i totally am down to flashwagon wazza replacement whenever that goes thru for funsies (well not rly funsies but if they kinda act sussy uk what i mean owo)

i think i find there at least personally that moving wagons repeatedly and only moving off once the discussion gets circular is a great d1 tactic tbh tbh


like if we stayed on anix we would still be trying to argue with them about their approach to expressing reads and progression.

[DkKoba]

I think drew is town

who r ur top townreads and bottom scumreads atp, like most confident reads in both directions

[DkKoba]

Even if that's the case anix decided to choose to argue arguing rather than give explanation or ask for an explanation

ya but taking the foot off the gas takes away their shield of expressing content defensively and needing to do so organically

[DkKoba]

Ranger
Alisae
AniX
Alisae
Skygazer
Alisae
Cook
Alisae
JasonWazza
Alisae
DragonEater70
Alisae
JasonWazza
Alisae
DkKoba
Alisae
Save The Dragons
Furret

These are my reads so far. If your name isn't present it means you didn't leave an impression.

I am actually scumreading STD.

VOTE: STD

oh no
bingle is mafia
its cuz he has jason listed twice

Sorry, fixed that for you.

I just realized this is(I believe) the first game with Ali where I don't know their alignment.

Will I put this knowledge of their scum and town game to good use? Probably not!

But exciting at the very least.

I

Drew

kinda feel I could figure them out as town though.

Pre Edit:

Could wolves write this post?
Probably
I think it’s being written by town tho

u know that usually when someone says "its the first time that X" it implies that they r mafia in this situation right

[DkKoba]

the m and m’s activate koba’s dayvig ability which they can only use against members of their own faction

ok

dayvig: ircher

[DkKoba]

ok im the most impatient person of all time but i think cook and drew are both mafia together

also feel weird abt how alisae is treating drew but thats a future koba problem

std/ranger/bingle/dragoneater/random nurse/theta are all slots i think i am comfortable just saying are town atp (bingle is giving me his kinda weird town playstyle vibes like i kinda had insight into his thought process during TM and while i disagree with the process sometimes I feel I understand it)

[DkKoba]

I think Cook's vote onto Drew and then downplaying it while voting and continuously holding back about it feels scummy in that Drew wagon got pretty big fast and I think Cook just wanted to be on it to look good but also work to dismantle it at the same time. and their content as a whole feels very follower-y, trying to seek validation for takes, etc.(like the comments about drew wagon being "scum motivated" felt like putting out feelers if cook should unvote potentially or keep the vote for positioning)

drew wagon is… a choice? little concerned on how fast it came together. scum lubricated the wheels no doubt

oh well, i will participate
VOTE: Doctor Drew

i’m bored of this wagon

UNVOTE: drew

there didnt really feel like much of a tangible difference in how fast RN wagon formed and the Drew wagon but the comment about drew wagon somehow being scum motivated, not calling out who it might be, while it shared a wagon with Random Nurse, and the same comment being lacking is somewhat textbook example of a scum treating a town person and their buddy differently in similar situations.

[DkKoba]

since my read on cook hinges on Drew, I won't be advocating to kill them today unless they reach a point where independently it can be determined they are scum more decisively other than the "followery" play

[DkKoba]

also small little detail: i feel that the scum team received PMs that had different colors, as the fact that they are guaranteed to be formed of a team with a different designer for each role, which is what may have prompted the cook discussion about role PM colors. this is just theory crafting but how I explain that whole thing in a scum!cook world.

[DkKoba]

I disagree

let's see some "go into depth" alisae on this topic that I saw in garlic bread mafia

[DkKoba]

im pretty sure there were no winners in that exchange tbh

[DkKoba]

ok im the most impatient person of all time but i think cook and drew are both mafia together

also feel weird abt how alisae is treating drew but thats a future koba problem

std/ranger/bingle/dragoneater/random nurse/theta are all slots i think i am comfortable just saying are town atp (bingle is giving me his kinda weird town playstyle vibes like i kinda had insight into his thought process during TM and while i disagree with the process sometimes I feel I understand it)

forgive me and i suppose that i can’t really comment on it but i really don’t see how me/drew is a pairing? i understand that my progression has left something to be desired and it’s easy to try to pull association off of me based on which wagons i’ve cared about.

still don’t see me-drew.

ur concern is that im pairing u with drew, when u think drew is town, and not that i think 2 people from your pov you think are town i am calling s/s

[DkKoba]

ok i worded that really bungled, there is more concerned with the pairing rather than the scumread

[DkKoba]

i wish ircher was a more interactive player but reading their meta it seems they have a sort of very solo oriented play that doesnt include any teamwork or discussion as both alignments, but it seems they are exhibiting the towny side here.

[DkKoba]

kinda unironically think drew is mafia bc of how hollow they feel and its like in the face of knowing they are mislim bait often.

Can you elaborate what you mean here? And I haven't been limmed as town in forever, and certainly don't worry about a D1 flash wagon lol.

I will agree with you on Cook, I had questions for std but I felt like Cook's entrance to my wagon(as you pointed out, calling it scum pushed....yet still joined) seems weird......then wants me to comment on it(after I already commented on std), then somehow decided I was towny(which kinda seemed like a pocket attempt of me).

You are looking at this too much with 'Drew is scum' glasses on(wrong prescription you have, I am 20/20 town) and trying to attach Cook to me(which I don't know how you came to me as scum in the first place).

u feel empty but this post is a good example of a not empty post but its also kinda one of those "off the backboard" type things where i set u up to make an easy good post but thats not to say i am discarding it at all.

[DkKoba]

votecount 1.05

y'all see the musical episode of star trek? good shit

4 players voting for Doctor Drew (Ranger, Skygazer, DkKoba, Random Nurse)
3 players voting for DkKoba (AniX, KatyKimFanClub, Ircher)
2 players voting for Bingle (Save The Dragons, camelCasedSnivy)
1 player voting for AniX (Alisae)
1 player voting for Random Nurse (Doctor Drew)
1 player voting for Alisae (Aureal)
1 player voting for camelCasedSnivy (Bingle)

4 players not voting (JasonWazza, Theta Alpine, DragonEater70, Cook)

with 17 votes, it takes 9 to eliminate.

mod notes: DragonEater70 is V/LA for just a little bit.

Ranger is also V/LA (indenfinitely according to their last post)

[DkKoba]

no, i want you to not focus on it and continue to play and if ur town, evidence should pile up against the conclusion u are mafia

[DkKoba]

bc ya if u are town, arguing about this point is just circular bc the town explaination is "yeah i just felt like doing it like that" kinda deal where u cant really get a decisive good answer

kinda like why i stopped interrogating anix bc it was pointless to pursue the point when we were at an impasse and theres 15 other slots to go thru to gain info


kinda like learned recently that overfocus on stuff can be very toxic to the gamestate and -ev as hell and that u gotta step back often and let the game play out more if a push is getting to circular logic. either kill the slot or move onto looking at other stuff etc.

i think a lot of us get trapped into that mindset where if we scumread someone we have to be on them like glue and keep questioning them and all that and then we forget we are just making 1 person need to meet way higher standards than everyone else and it just is kinda no good etc.

like what we did collectively was have like 4 wagons and more info than a lot of full D1s in games

[DkKoba]

suh

[DkKoba]

theta and dragon are both towny ? not understanding the scumreads

[DkKoba]

im miller but my role doesnt say i investigate as mafia but please treestump me, it will be extremely OP

[DkKoba]

@theta does ur treestump ability generate a death flip?

[DkKoba]

Do you think rule of 3 applies here then?

You might of missed it, but it's actually rule of 4 this game.

Koba danced around the why, but it's not all that hard to put together, so I'd be kind of shocked if scum hasn't figured it out.

Every listmod provided 4 roles. Therefore, if we can narrow listmods down to their roles semi reliably we can make pools out of them that probably contain exactly 1 scum, completely ignoring the roles themselves. That means every scum flip will potentially be giving us up to three pseudo conftown, which is almost certainly a game losing proposition for the scum team.

yup:

so since I wanna do this kinda with theta:

I am going to finish my claim now that everyone who is reasonably going to claim has claimed.

My role does flip as a random role in the setup.. but only as a mafia role. Ergo, the miller part, I'm a death miller.

I am killed, I will reveal 1 of the scum's roles as 100% information. Theta can then bring me back for 1 day to chat and then because their role worked, it confirms I am a miller. (hopefully though I'm not sure if there is a technicalility where my role doesnt investigate to cop as mafia? as my role only says miller in name and the description doesnt mention investigative results)\

[DkKoba]

i love this role bc it means scum are incetivized not to kill me bc i give public info and potentially screw over an alive scum, or I die and reveal something very useful.

[DkKoba]

do we think the current listmods are likely to give killpower to mafia roles y/n and if so who

[DkKoba]

still waiting on this so called great claim from ranger

I'll claim at first available point. I’m V/LA every Sunday - Monday for work normally. Throw in a friend in need plus wedding prep, and I’m extra busy rn.

I

should

have the desktop access and time tomorrow. If not, then the soonest I’ll have both is Wednesday, as I’ve no free access on this specific Tuesday.

I’ll say right now: my role

directly

counters yours, and my Miller is an active, not passive. While I’ve reasons beyond roles for suspecting both of you, this is a contributing factor in both my Cook and Theta Alpine suspicion.

Wait do you think they're scummy partially for having a miller role

[DkKoba]

VOTE: cook
Scummy reasoning

[DkKoba]

ass mafia finally real
Thank you anix

[DkKoba]

404 -

435 - I don't think I agree with "this trait Town, this trait Scum." Game's more complex than that.

436 - This isn't a subtle signal to look at low-activity members, is it?

The arguing between Anix and Koba is legit giving me a headache.

450 - I'm opposed to massclaim because we lose the element of surprise and Scum will just lie about their roles.

499 -

+1

521 - How exactly?

534 - Activity. Is. Not. Indicative. Of. Alignment.

538 - Really? Seems opportunistic to me.

540 - Also opportunistic.

544 - Also opportunistic.

551 - I see you've got a similar posting style this game.

559 - Why this?

561 - What exactly is your reason for voting Koba?

566 - It does raise an eyebrow, to be honest.

593 - Someone gets it.

PROBABLY TOWN?

TOWNLEAN?

Aureal, Skygazer, AniX

NEED MORE INFO

Save The Dragons, DragonEater70, Ranger, Theta Alpine, KatyKimFanClub, Ircher, Bingle, camelCasedSnivy, JasonWazza

SCUMLEAN?

DkKoba, Alisae, Cook, Doctor Drew

PROBABLY SCUM?

And the reason I've got those four in Scumlean is because Koba's vote based on my first TWO posts is utter rubbish. I'm freaking busy, Bro. I'm on MY clock, not yours. And the three votes in rapid-succession after Koba's reeks of opportunism. Activity is not indicative of alignment, and you look like you're trying to jump on an easy target. Aureal seems like she's trying to solve the game, and her being wary does give off some Townvibes to me. Skygazer seems more Townish, actually understanding that a nurse might be extremely busy, instead of trying to use it as an opportunity to score an easy lim. AniX I've never played with before, but he does seem like he's trying to solve the game in his own way, which seems to be more in the mechanical sense. The others I haven't gotten enough information from either way to suss them out: again, I STRUGGLE during Day 1 in general because we have literally NOTHING.

I agree that at least one person on Nurse's wagon was probably scum. I also have no clue why the hell Koba said this:

nurse be like, we can't have townies collaborating in this thread, you're all scum

When they were apparently SRing Drew?

if i had to gth solve rn - nurse/ircher/drew/wazza ? jury on anix is still out tho - hoping to see a development past trying to only purely talk mechs and discuss stances too.

VOTE: DkKoba

I reevaluated bc my reason to find Drew town was bad when I dove their iso

[DkKoba]

wait i thought koba was a death miller

Koba claimed a role similar to a death miller. Theta can ask about interactions with the role death miller to get a decent approximation of interactions with Koba. All assuming that roles were claimed accurately.

Koba, why did your role make you think "Pool of neg utility roles" when your role is actually just very powerful investigation?

Because if I die there's no guarantee im.town until the mafia role holder dies

[DkKoba]

definitely either a cakez or Lilith role

[DkKoba]

This is me not voting drew

If it wasn't obvious, I lied when I said STD was a strong scum power role I'd rather not bus.

Truth is, Doctor Drew's the strong scum power and Alisae's screaming in the scum chat to not bus Drew.

I'm a rebel.

You know full well in a scenario where Ali and I are buddies they would have no problem bussing me, you literally saw it happen once. Disingenuous.

cannot decide if drewposting is +town or -town
i think +town

You think wrong. This is Doctor Drew's scum meta.

This is more disingenuousness, you were only one of a few who pegged me as scum in Boons Ahoy, so it makes no sense your reads on me as a whole can change so quickly. You even admitted that you didn't say I changed my meta, just that I could. So I can't believe that you look at the two games and so confidently say that this is my scum meta here.

I agree with 803/804; Cook demonstrated an inconsistency between the Doctor Drew and Random Nurse wagons. Cook's treatment of Doctor Drew is suspect. Cook's focus there feels like that of a scumbuddy.

I prefer voting Doctor Drew though.

I agree that this game has been pretty productive (or at least prolific) and so I don't really feel the need for a massclaim anymore.

While hitting scum gives us the luxury of delaying massclaim,

we've no guarantee aside from faith in the accuracy of, say, my read on Doctor Drew. I'm rather certain I'm right; if I was wrong, a mislim + no massclaim combo would be quite bad.

I'd prefer a Doctor Drew elimination.

I'd still prefer a massclaim first.

So you are telling me Ranger that you are so confident in your read on me that you would push a play(the massclaim) that you even say would be bad if I were to flip town(or any mislim). There is so much that can go wrong there, you know what you are doing here and it isnt town motivated.

on the one hand i do agree this seems like scum drew

Lol, being a little survivalistic there Theta?

theta discouraging massclaim is modifying my viewpoint of her
VOTE: Theta
let’s see something outta this slot

Nice try.

It'd work better if I hadn't been in a prior game with scum-Theta deliberately distancing with her scum partners.

Again referencing Boons Ahoy, I was the one doing the bulk of the distancing from Theta, Theta actually wasn't a big game of it. More lies and disingenuous behavior.

theta and dragon are both towny ? not understanding the scumreads

Theta Alpine's playing like she does as scum, and I don't believe her claim. The latter will be more clear after a massclaim.

WRT Drew, he feels like a little bit muted version of his scumgame to me. Any thoughts on why he's somehow less than I'd expect from scumdrew?

He knows his scum meta and he knows this game has players who know his scum meta. In particular, I was able to correctly identify Doctor Drew was in his scum meta when other players thought he was out of it. He can try to change his meta, yet as long as I live, he has reason to respect me. My theory; he's muted because he knows he's not fooling me.

why is your default that I must be trying to 'change my meta'.......and not 'hey this is a different Drew, they might be town'.

I believe you're being deliberately disingenuous.

Bingle believes you're more subdued than your normal scumgame. He wanted to hear my theory as to why. I provided it. I still believe you're in your scum meta. I didn't say you were changing your meta. Quite the opposite. I said you were avoiding doing so, while I live.

Where was I being deliberately disingenuous?

1135 and now 1153.

I didn't say you were trying to change your meta. I said you

could

.

These last few I already commented on, but this is where she basically ran out of ideas on how to drive my mis-elim and just pointed to posts without actually explaining her reads. Then it just turned into a bit a snark, from me as well back to here, which as pointed out by Bingle isn't helping anyone(also ironically was devolving into what I was having issues with the whole Anix/Koba thing.....I was becoming what I hate!!). But the frustration I was having with Ranger is the same frustration I have with Titus as scum and was having flashbacks to those back and forths lol.

Sorry for the wall, on phone and it is a pain trying to cut the fat from some of the quoted posts.

This isn't a bad case (I think the part about mass claim is a good one), but Ranger always expresses confidence even when the confidence doesn't exist.

i think its a bad case, assumptions like the one about the massclaim are level 0. feel free to point me to actual empirical evidence where reads like this have worked in the past, because evidence points to the opposite and that its silly and inconsistent.
ranger is like blatantly town and anyone who isn't finding them town is either using poor reasoning like in this case or scum (or both). You, ircher, as someone who enjoys Grand Idea should know that in role madness that being closed about ones role is >rand scum. like half this case is "um acktually you should know better so u have to b mafia lolz" or "um acktually that move is anti town according to me even though you think its good, so u have to be scum because different opinions on optimal play dont get to exist"
its the type of bad tells that drive me up the wall because they dont fucking work.

[DkKoba]

actually its not a bad case, its a terrible case.

[DkKoba]

idk but like great players will take someone seemingly being disingenuous about them, clarify what they think is being disingenuous, and then see if with clarification how they react, instead of assumptions that everyone will think exactly like u lol

[DkKoba]

like holy shit theta and ranger are 2 of the most obvious town slots in the game and theyre actually at threat of being eliminated somehow potentially

i get why the scumreads on those slots, but it still doesnt make it any less tiring

[DkKoba]

I don't understand how Koba flipping as a random scum role is an investigative unless the person with the role trueclaimed it. We aren't even going to know if the role is really his or not unless someone else flips as the same role are we?

The best lies are always based around truths. This early into the game, scum very likely didn't have a way to reliably tell what the game was going to look like, nor to craft a good wholesale fakeclaim, let alone four. Further, a LARGE number of the roles claimed so far are confirmable. For example, if theta's role is scum (likely loyal instead of desperate) theta will be outed should koba flip as theta's role. If skyg's role is scum they'll be outed. If Alisae's role is scum, they'll be outed. That's not comprehensive, either. That's just roles that will become fairly immediately obvious if they aren't as described, and therefore are likely mostly trueclaims.

Even if a role like Strongman Janitor flips, it vastly narrows down the pool.

Burden of proficiency on my skill as a reviewer here, but Koba's role balances as a guaranteed scum flip, and more to the point we should use it that way.

id rather be vigged if anything, if not ill take a gracious exit d2.

im most useful after a flip

[DkKoba]

id rather be vigged if anything, if not ill take a gracious exit d2.

im most useful after a flip

I'm undecided if limming you is correct (we're in the middle of massclaim) but given the claims we have, it is the mechanically optimal play.

Mechanically optimal and best for town are not always the same thing.

I'd honestly expect your claim to come from Cakez over Tbone, btw.

having my slot killed d2 is not much different than d1, just a more informed decision tbh

makes it so that scum have to survive longer not knowing if they might be caught right after i flip and thus produce more associatives (red checks start being most effective socially halfway thru day 2 IMO, daystart red checks kill good spew.)

[DkKoba]

This isn't a bad case

Depends. It sure is a disingenuous case in part because Doctor Drew is using that word apparently not knowing what it means. If I thought it contained anything worth commenting on, I'd do so. The entire thing is disingenuous tho.

do the clarifications that drew put forth in the list at least change ur perspective on anything and help adjust your reasoning, and change any conclusions?

[DkKoba]

This isn't a bad case

Depends. It sure is a disingenuous case in part because Doctor Drew is using that word apparently not knowing what it means. If I thought it contained anything worth commenting on, I'd do so. The entire thing is disingenuous tho.

I mean, you haven't commented on anything I said, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

And do you know what it means? You literally haven't explained the posts you linked to and why they are disingenuous.

You can't just say words and expect everyone to know what you mean.

i read it and its very disingenuous of ranger's POV

[DkKoba]

"what if"

imma stop u right there

u forgot the "what if its town"

[DkKoba]

if i lookup a town ranger game and it looks similar to this one i will clamp my vote on you for the rest of the game or until your slot is dead, not that i thought ur slot was towny b4 this but I also think that when u start lying about meta like that to make a point its not from a town POV

[DkKoba]

one day players will learn that they sometimes think my town game resembles my scum game because my scum game is imitating my town game and im good at it

one day

-c

found a valuable quote while digging

also i see nothing resembling a significant difference between 2 towngames, one of which drew was in himself. so imma need some receipts on the meta being different.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: drew

[DkKoba]

my vote is contingent on a) an existing read on you being in my POE and b) your lie about ranger's meta to further push them. the case is bad regardless of alignment and the process is too simple to really get an alignment out of it by itself.

[DkKoba]

also tbh i thought there was a lot more ppl clamoring for ranger but i may have mixed that with theta who kinda has a similar vibe to ranger and also is similar in townread level for me.

[DkKoba]

ranger and koba are on the same team

beyond that it seems like drew is a good kill

also still waiting on Clout to post

This is a weird couple of posts though.

I am the good kill, but Koba and Ranger are on the same team.

Usually when you say two players are on the same team, you mean they are buddies......if you thought they were both town, you would say they were both town.

Do you know they are both town Cook?

Pre Edit: What lie about Rangers meta?

u said that u played with town ranger and this looks nothing like town ranger. which game is this from?

[DkKoba]

This isn't a bad case

Depends. It sure is a disingenuous case in part because Doctor Drew is using that word apparently not knowing what it means. If I thought it contained anything worth commenting on, I'd do so. The entire thing is disingenuous tho.

I mean, you haven't commented on anything I said, so I wouldn't expect anything less.

And do you know what it means? You literally haven't explained the posts you linked to and why they are disingenuous.

You can't just say words and expect everyone to know what you mean.

i read it and its very disingenuous of ranger's POV

What if her POV is from scum?

I have seen townRanger quite a bit, I wasn't joking when I said it seems like she is doing her best scumTitus impression......she is being stubborn, not listening to reason, and hate to say it again lol...... completely disingenuous.

This isn't town Ranger.

[DkKoba]

not sure if im being egged on in a tvt again by cook

[DkKoba]

not sure if im being egged on in a tvt again by cook

i don’t understand do you mind explaining? (genuine)

the first time we ever played you egged on a 1v1 with me and esooa when u were scum(unfortunate for you, it ended up making me turn on you for a bit)
Subject: Mini Normal 2190 | Baby Animals | Game Over

GOOD MORNING, MAFIASCUM! WE'VE GOT ANOTHER PRIZE BOUT BOILING ON MNTV – AND IT'S BETWEEN TWO CHAMPION FIGHTERS

IN THE RED CORNER, WE HAVE

Dk

Ko

b

a

!

AAAND IN THE BLUE CORNER, WE HAVE

ESOOA!

THIS ONE'S GONNA BE INTERESTING, LET'S SEE HOW IT GOES!

OUR REF, ANDRESVMB IS RUNNING OUT OF THE RING, AND *bell dings twice* THE FIGHT BEGINS!

I'm still voting u buddy

[DkKoba]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

VOTE: ranger

I'm miller.

you're in the miller family of roles. I'm also miller. Presumably one of the listmods submitted several miller's

[DkKoba]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

VOTE: ranger

I'm miller.

This is not a traditional game such that this logic is going to work.

Also even if we use normal logic, large normals have multiple millers too. Have been in a game with 2 millers myself. Same role is not a reliable tell

[DkKoba]

VOTE: aureal

I forgot what's been going on in this game but a few hours ago I really wanted to vote this slot

[DkKoba]

is it bad i miss being scumread bc it meant ppl actually paid attention to at least *some* things i said

[DkKoba]

I want to locktown PC

he cc'd ranger bro this guy has no idea what is going on he is not apart of the informed minority

if either PC or alisae ever flip scum, the other is 100% scum.

because I see the retraction coming from Alisae yelling at PC in the scum chat bc thats how alisae is as scum bc an awkward correction like that comes from alisae panic mode

[DkKoba]

what was the goal of the cc if they werent miller though

fuck this shit about about goals bro
here is what happened
Guy sees his role pm
guy sees he is a miller
guy reads game
guy sees ranger miller claim
guy cc's and puts down a vote.

idunno bro, looks like a townie to me

I retract

VOTE: camelcasesnivy

hos anix
fos theta
igmeo drdrew

town: PC
town: dkkoba
town: ircher
town: cook

?

[DkKoba]

bro I don't even care about the redaction.
I came out of a newbie queue game where he fakeclaimed doctor as vt and was killed day 1.

It doesn't even matter because the guy should massclaim, or at least if he does not want to massclaim, he should be able to talk himself out of it (spoiler alert: he can't).
If there is a thought process, we get it then. If his posting so far indicates he has a thought process, there is probably a thought process for retracting.
He is in his own little world my guy.

It just doesn't make sense to people.
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's mafia!

I'm not saying it's mafia, I'm saying your take that it's towny for that reason is absurd

[DkKoba]

please keep me accountable and make me contribute some analysis tonight thank u all
been neglectful of yall sorry!

[DkKoba]

I'm not concerned with de claiming bc he's newer and also transparently towny
The deflection is scummy af

[DkKoba]

VOTE: PC

[DkKoba]

Theta is like top 3 obvious town bro
Can people hop off theta for weirdposting

[DkKoba]

I'm also they not here, i want you to fullclaim.

[DkKoba]

I want you to claim bc there are multiple roles that can catch mafia via claims, you get the cold shoulder till you claim.

Aureal don't think I'll forget about you btw

[DkKoba]

also aureal already claimed
or else i would be on them

ok well to be fair they're also the scummiest slot in the game currently so

[DkKoba]

it would b funny if i died and it flipped that exact ability

[DkKoba]

if koba was scum and their ability was to flip as a random townie's role that would be hilarious

i mean if anything the claim is to obscure my own flip and pretend i am a town when flipped

but like in future games for sure u cant trust this kind of roleclaim now that its an idea for setups like these lmao

[DkKoba]

this is unreviewed role madness u dont get cleared for role esp since this isnt even like grand idea mafia where theres a list of roles

[DkKoba]

aureal trying to push they are town for role is like one of those classic role madness scumclaims lol. not that im ever gonna use that as a sole reason but the more they push it the more i just wanna tunnel harder

[DkKoba]

also with roles like that that involve recruitment and all that i am worried about stuff like RadientCowbells anything upick where ppl foolishly prayed to this player when they died even tho they were obviously scum early game and they just turbo bussed to get an alternative wincon.

not enabling anyone elses role like that

[DkKoba]

aureal trying to push they are town for role is like one of those classic role madness scumclaims lol. not that im ever gonna use that as a sole reason but the more they push it the more i just wanna tunnel harder

So you try to push that I'm scum for my role and then call it a scumclaim when I think otherwise. Wow. Okay. I was starting to think maybe you weren't actually scum, but you're really trying to make the case that your scumflip will be a real scumflip and not this 'death miller' thing, aren't you?

why does anyone townread this slot btw

[DkKoba]

aureal trying to push they are town for role is like one of those classic role madness scumclaims lol. not that im ever gonna use that as a sole reason but the more they push it the more i just wanna tunnel harder

So you try to push that I'm scum for my role and then call it a scumclaim when I think otherwise. Wow. Okay. I was starting to think maybe you weren't actually scum, but you're really trying to make the case that your scumflip will be a real scumflip and not this 'death miller' thing, aren't you?

why does anyone townread this slot btw

koba what’s your poe atm

mine is aureal clout drew. one of those three are who i’m happy with atm subject to change and people yelling at me

Theta Alpine
DragonEater70
Bingle
AniX
Ranger
Save The Dragons
Random Nurse
Political Clout
Skygazer
Cook
camelCasedSnivy
Alisae
KatyKimFanClub
Doctor Drew
Ircher
Aureal

[DkKoba]

"on balance"

pc can you read the setup description

[DkKoba]

anyways as promised VOTE: aureal

[DkKoba]

i know pc is competent at reading people and i like white knighting underdogs so i'm lending them my vote for a bit. i have not read and don't remember anything at the moment

confused why you are underselling yourself

[DkKoba]

Sensitive

If you target a player that is not of your alignment, you may not use your ability next night.

[DkKoba]

no listmods posted in that thread, unlucky. could have been a nice way to confirm a listmod

[DkKoba]

ok i went back to look at my role bc i remembered i had a funky modifer but its actually kinda boring lol

town temporary death miller

so uh it probably doesnt work with the treestump role this is messed up (but also maybe that role is like part of the same listmod and this was intentional design within that pool of roles)

[DkKoba]

i will stay on aureal and offer to compete wagons with camel, i have both in my poe. my favorite gamestates are when 2 slots i think are probable scum get run up together bc its super informative for me POV lmao

[DkKoba]

i have a compulsive modifier

me too, im also a Neutral Compulsive Page 69 Poster, just achieved my wincon. see you later suckers

[DkKoba]

Correct me if I am wrong, do Theta, PC, Koba, and I have the only modifiers?

Hmm, reading more on the claims list that doesn't appear to be accurate.....but we seem to have the most straightforward roles with a modifier?

I do feel(if PC is true claiming) that we are from the same list mod, and it just jumped out at me that theta and koba could be as well.

ok this is a good point actually

[DkKoba]

theta has anti-synergy with my role (like a very direct anti-synergy)

ironically uhh if ranger has a modfier and is a miller ... IT MAY make sense for theta to be scum with a towny sounding role that can interact with a townie..... but dayplay is still v good

[DkKoba]

wait i thought it was 4/1 split for roles

[DkKoba]

large theme game mods who dont put their setup in the OP post will be boiled

[DkKoba]

hello! this is a 17-player game with 4 mafia roles and 13 town roles. the 6 current list mods each submitted 4 roles (1 mafia and 3 town). I randomly selected 17 of those 24 roles, ensuring that each person had at least one role included. they did not communicate about their designs with each other. it's possible this will be a relatively mundane game, or it might be extremely strange --

keep in mind that it was not reviewed.

you can view a previous game that was generated in a similar manner (but with the normal review group instead of list mods) here.

I will not be allowing hydras in this game. also, note that I run games without deadlines, but I reserve the right to impose a deadline in the very rare event that the game grinds to a halt (I don't think that's ever happened in the time since I started doing that, though). the co-mod for this game is Korina.

by the way, I'm going to be posting a link to this signup thread in a discord server I'm in (but who I trust to be able to handle this game as their introduction to the site) -- if you see a small influx of players you haven't seen before, that might be why.

ah 4 roles *total* not 4 town roles lol

my clown ass posted in signup thread lol

[DkKoba]

i have a compulsive modifier

ok well at least this removes my "wtf is going on" with drew/pc seeiming towny around this discussion and having a strong townread based on theta's play lol

[DkKoba]

i mean like they had 0 communication between eachother, some may have went wild and submitted 4 completely different roles but i think its liklier they mostly stayed to a theme overall

[DkKoba]

i mean like they had 0 communication between eachother, some may have went wild and submitted 4 completely different roles but i think its

liklier they mostly stayed to a theme overall

why?

i mean like theme overall within their picks

[DkKoba]

we have a neg utility group

i think aureal is kinda an odd one out with some weird ass super role that doesnt fit with anyone else.