Open 880 - Normal Idea Mafia - Postgame

[biancospino]

VOTE: Sky

Sorry Sky, I'm sheeping my buddy

[biancospino]

VOTE: skygazer

That's... not a joke
Wow, are we really out of rvs this fast

[biancospino]

skygazer/heip/bianco ship it

sk is not mafia or something

I am disappointed you didn't omgus me.

I promise a free omgus if you vote me. Just for you.

[biancospino]

anyways hopefully the bulk of the withdrawal is over 2morrow and i can think again

<3 good luck

VOTE: heip agree with std, the "why is this person town" rvs question is a bit scummy and ivy thinks withdrawal might explain skygazer being scummy. a lot of us still think defending themself from an rvs wagon was +scum though

-ivy+ash+james

Tbh I don't really think there is anything to explain away, nor parse sky as defensive. What defending, 16 and 18?

[biancospino]

I have a feeling I got wagoned whenever I tried to push the game out of rvs as town ...

We're voting you cause the vibes are off

Liking my vote more here tbh

Like there's an implicit assumption that the wagon is pure that I think is +scum

VOTE: python
There is no such assumption, implicit or otherwise.
Like, this is a perfectly valid argument as long as one doesn't pay mind on the unsoundness of the premise that it asserts, that I think is +scum

[biancospino]

Like he didn't even ask questions to try to figure out if there's scum motivation for voting him, he just immediately went "yeah ok". How is that not implicitly assuming the wagon is pure?

When you put it that way, it does track actually; after all, clearly nobody would ever see a wagon on themselves and just think that's a nai thing on the voters' side, right?

I have a feeling I got wagoned whenever I tried to push the game out of rvs as town ...

Oh, oh, wait, what's this? Is this heip aknowledging they get wagoned every time they do a thing? And so there need not be a specific ai motivation for such a wagon to form? Well then.

hi tweet!

mostly agree with above, though i can see bianco as town who just doesn't like calling things ai

Wdym, I've just called 95 ai.

Surely I love how it plainly asserts heip's state of mind out of thin air

[biancospino]

@bianco python is really trying to dig in to what they think heip's mindset is and you're just not about that.

-ash+others

Yes? Like I don't find the assumed mindset to be a convincing assumption at all

Like all of biancos town!heip theories are like alternate explanation stuff that'd come to mind if you start from the position that heip is town and then run the mindset from there

Lol. I'd like to hear what those "theories" of mine might be. Beside just not accepting that heip's tmi'ing which, yknow, the onus is really on you on that as far as I'm concerned, you are the one with the claim

[biancospino]

• heip's complaining about getting wagoned but also not voting or pushing or interacting with anyone on his wagon
  
• therefore it's reasonable to assume heip thinks his wagon is pure

Yeah, the

therefore

here is just silly. This assumes that everyone that is shit wagoned on like page two must go detective mode. As opposed to not really caring enough to do anything more than complaining. I know it's hard to believe, but some (most?) players aren't in tryhard mode all the time

See, if you state basically "heip's doing X, and X is +scum, therefore here's a vote", you are basically establishing the narrative that X is obviously happening. Which is not obvious at all, so much not so that I wonder the motivation for insinuating as much. Can be that you really think it's obvious, but frankly that just doesn't parse for me that way at all

[biancospino]

humaneatingmonkey replaces Merlyn.

Moderator Announcement

There was some confusion relating to a post I made in the Normal Idea Mafia thread.

Serial Killer Rolecop 3-Shot Commuter

---

I'm referring to 17, 36, and 39. I only intend to use the first 100 posts for this run.

I never made it explicit in the Setup Information post, so I will clarify now that this was an earlier plan that I did not end up following. This game's setup was rolled using the entire 150-post deck.
That's all.

sus

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

Actually no nvm the timing on that would imply that monkey is sk since it was too close together to have read through the entire role list so if our angleshooting is correct they looked up parts of their role. If they were groupscum that would have probably popped up earlier

rn don't really care about sk that much

VOTE: Invis post

Like this is just a trash argument thou. Borderline only works if we think our mod royally screwed up

I'm going to boldly assume there's no way Alianna posts that announcment, linking to a specific role post in the NIM thread, in rensponse to a player with that role asking questions, and especially not such a player like HEM that would already be in the spotlight for being replaced. Like, no way she's going to modspew stuff that hard

[biancospino]

Emphasis ours. We're not saying HEM is exactly

Serial Killer Rolecop 3-Shot Commuter

, we're saying that if our angleshooting is correct and HEM is scum they can Rolecop or Commute and that it doesn't make sense for them to be groupscum since that would have come up earlier when Merlyn was looking up her role

Eh, ok I guess, whatever. Still don't like to try to guess thing out of what would still be a mod fuck up. I think you have the emphasis one the wrong thing thou I guess you wanted to emphasize "part of" in 153 idk

[biancospino]

VOTE: bianco

I feel like bianco probably flips scum here and that her flipping scum just straight up clears the heip slot

Yes, we know, you said that yesterday already

[biancospino]

VOTE: bianco

I feel like bianco probably flips scum here and that her flipping scum just straight up clears the heip slot

Yes, we know, you said that yesterday already

We should say that tomorrow too

I always love a good Bianco wagon

VOTE: Bianco

Well, a promisr is a promise
VOTE: Drew, here you go

[biancospino]

VOTE: Camel

If STD is sizable scum to you why are you still voting HEM for something the moderator posted

like mentioning SK plus HEMs replace in or whatever

VOTE: Camel

If STD is sizable scum to you why are you still voting HEM for something the moderator posted

like mentioning SK plus HEMs replace in or whatever

because std was an early read that at the time had a good chance of being scum

also std and everyone else didnt care so wtv

*cut*
i think heip is town *cut*

Are you saying 133 is still representative of your mindset about the game?

Because that wouldn't necessarily help you about 212, that posts also sais there is scum in UNO, StD, Infinity

[biancospino]

i was trying to come up with a way to stop scum from easily claiming by doing something like claiming your post number mod 5 but that only helps scum

If the idea here is forcing scum to commit to a fakeclaim out of the gate, it can be done quite trivially.

Like, everyone secretly chooses a random (200+N)-digits prime p and a random (500-N)-digits prime q and publicly posts pq. Retrieving p is unfeasible; 200 and 500 can be freely increased if we want more security.

Thou this may be cryptography, idk;

@mod?

[biancospino]

Our experience with Snivy has him making weird reads, but his actual scumtell is when those reads like just don't go anywhere. Like in Weird Dreams we were consensus town d1, he genuinely scumread us, but like he didn't really care to get us limmed if that makes sense? Like there was no worry about us hard "deepwolfing", especially when he claimed 3-shot alignment cop but also didn't even check us n1

cuz i checked titus

Yeah that's our point. We were basically unlimmable from a dayplay perspective whereas Titus could have

maybe

been limmable with sheep and I not TRing her, yet you copped her over us because you didn't

really

care about deepwolves as cult

"scum!Snivy does a thing [which he isn't doing here], look at <game> of cult!Snivy"
"I didn't do the thing in <game>, because reasons"
"Yes you did"

What is this. Am I just reading it wrong? Why would Snivy contest a meta that would paint him as not scum

[biancospino]

No I understand what

you

're saying, what I don't get is the point of ccs posting 257. Which I understand does actually help your point, but it does look like it was trying to be a retort to 255 (while failing to be so); but really only ccs can ponder on that I suppose

[biancospino]

Also like both Drew and

you

have said our towncase of you is wrong here [...]

I'm still a bit dumbfounded; @ccs, is that you think python had an ulterior motive in that towncase, otherwise I struggle to see why you'd do that. Regardless of alignment really

Aureal gave me nothing to townread her but that wagon comp. I don't like it. cCS is voting with StD which is in his scumpool, HEM which is his sk and python which I feel like he distrust

[biancospino]

Well, do you not?
That's the subtext I read off 291, and off the fact you'd felt the need to argue against their tr of you

[biancospino]

Only if you suspected there may have been ulterior motives behind it. Otherwise what's the point

[biancospino]

Are you talking about 291 or about how you talked diwn the Weird Dream tr? Cause I was about the latter in my latest post but I think you're on the former.
In which case, it's not really just the question, it's how you framed it. Felt like you was gotchaing them. But you say you weren't?

[biancospino]

VOTE: Aureal

[biancospino]

Maybe I just dreamed the subtext

Just to put that to rest, do you have a read on python?

[biancospino]

I see
Well I don't agree but it's also probably best I stay away from that slot for now

[biancospino]

The same would be true for any negutil role like loyal vig or whatever.
It's such a bad soft that it's either trying to be twtbw or trying to eat the yeet

[biancospino]

You have only 1 scum game and in that one you killed osuka to pocket the mod

I'm trying to pocket the mod by shooting a toxic player so she'll hopefully have less work to do policing player behavior.

Lol, I had totally missed this pearl

[biancospino]

Now you're going a little tunnelvision on mechanics

It's you that blatantly invited mech talk

[biancospino]

monkeys

And, are those monkeys anthropophagous?

I'm sure they've got the signal. Or more likely I need to put the tinfoil down, idk

[biancospino]

Well that's what the tinfoil would imply.

VOTE: HEM would you mind? After all, an sk is an above average lim no?

[biancospino]

In the Bianco run normal game they used a traitor and there was a little bit of a blow back from some players saying that traitors shouldn't be considered normal.

Bianco, do you remember if Alianna was one of those players?

Look at me trying to outguess AC DC lol

I don't think so; and tbh the blowback was mostly on the combination of lazy+traitor.

Doesn't matter thou, by my understanding the roll is just purely random

[biancospino]

They wouldn't even have a kill if all three were traitor would they? Maybe not even know who each other were? What are the odds of that?

In that case I think they would all be immediately endgamed. Like as soon as D1 started

[biancospino]

wait so, to the people who are voting HEM because of my signal, why arent I being wagoned?

You do realize that voting out a Traitor is basically worthless right

[biancospino]

invis had that really good bianco read though

Only thing in her ISO that is kind of a read on me is 170. Did it strike you as notable for some reason, I think it was very forgettable

[biancospino]

HEMs posting makes us think they're the likeliest to flip scum here but like that's not exactly a confident read and a HEM mislim probably straight up loses us the game from thread apathy if people are gonna continue playing like this

UNOwen's the HEM counterwagon and we're not scumreading them

Snivy we're townreading.

We feel like a hero shot on STD/Skygazer's probably a good bet here

We aren't going to flair up a flashwagon now at eod and you know it.

Besides, Aureal has been cosplaying as Not_Mafia all Day. She's probably itchy to hammer rn.

[biancospino]

Let's witness that power then.
VOTE: Aureal

[biancospino]

UNVOTE:

[biancospino]

Fuck it, let's just sheep the IC.
VOTE: Heip

[biancospino]

wait, am i reading it right

skygazer absorbs kills taken by their target

so skygazer probably targetted uno, and ate the kill that uno took

so how is uno scum because of this?

That's a bodyguard, shield is the dual of that

VOTE: UNO, at worst is sk here, not much else to say

[biancospino]

VOTE: UNO, at worst is sk here, not much else to say

Bad vibes on this post btw

Bad vibes on this post btw

But in all seriousness, is anyone under the impression that this is not essentially an automatic lim for today?

P-E: floor's yours

[biancospino]

UNVOTE:

[biancospino]

Is this shit the TMI shit all over again. Save for mad convoluted scenarios, Uno shot and we miss another nk, it's as close to conf-nontown as it goes

[biancospino]

at worst

Don't you agree that a sk is a worse lim that a groupscum?
See, bad vibes. This is such an egregeous misrep that I'm not joking anymore

[biancospino]

ccs is like at worst sk, we're townbinning them for now

Lol you should keep your narratives straight

[biancospino]

Yeah, @python, no. You clearly stated you care more about groupscum that sks. I'm sure there were another quote to the same effect that I can't be arsed to fish for.

Feel free to keep wiggling thou. Btw, it is categorically false that an sk lim is better than a groupscum one.

[biancospino]

S

ay it now if you want
No need to wait
If you have something you need to say, go for it.
Very weird to hold it longer
You should probably just say it now, HEM. Like we can wait to end day, sure, but dont see the purpose of you posting but holding having to say something.

Spicy

[biancospino]

@python. It is you that said "at worst sk", in that sentence it implies that he being sk would be less bad than he being scum.

I don't know why I'm keeping to deal with your shit, need to keep doing what I did the second half of D1 and just leave you be

[biancospino]

@python. It is you that said "at worst sk", in that sentence it implies that he being sk would be less bad than he being scum.

ccs is Town or SK -> At worst SK

where is the confusion? SK/groupscum relative badness doesn't come into the picture because we read them as not groupscum

And you used "at worst sk" to express the concept he was not scum, did you not

[biancospino]

took me a minute to understand what you two were arguing about so i think it is just a misunderstanding

Frankly given how well our spat D1 went, it's either that or maliciousness yes. And please do scream at me if I keep engaging please

[biancospino]

Anyway, python is not aligned with cCS.

They used the wrong pronoun there, I don't think they would dumbtell that and they would probably remember if they shared a pt

[biancospino]

UNOwen is Mechanically scum -> Scum or SK -> At worst SK (This is a worst case because -EV compared to limming groupscum)

Glad you agree with me now :/

Let's just end this shit
VOTE: Uno

[biancospino]

Anyway, python is not aligned with cCS.

They used the wrong pronoun there, I don't think they would dumbtell that and they would probably remember if they shared a pt

huh

r/uselessredcircle

[biancospino]

Last mafia knew we were fakeclaiming so I think that probably clears bianco of being mafia since they'd want to just let us vibe to keep hem alive

Ah sadge. I was looking forward for that turbolim you promised me

I can't decide if that false inno was too egregious of a move to be wolfy, or if it is refuge in audacy. In an sk game, I propend for the former.
But we can pretend to keep fighting for tradition's sake if you'd like

[biancospino]

Novice Babysitter. Babysat Aureal and it's what it is, so she just stole a kill

[biancospino]

I think I want to trust the Leaf.

But you said you wouldn't fight lol. You're fighting fr

[biancospino]

@Bianco - I think you need to hold your shot tonight in case you die.

Or, I may pretend to be a gambit Vigilante.
Who knows what I'm doing, maybe I'll feel bloodthirsty

[biancospino]

bro drew you couldve waited for stds claim

I was trying to.....gunsmith 'guilty' isn't a slam dunk though anyways.

But there isn't much I can get a 'guilty' on that I would consider a shitty role.

Ok but you ought to see if they claim some shit with no gun.

VOTE: Std

[biancospino]

biancospino

- don’t really like the claim, it also gets past gun, i can also seem them playing up a bit. This is an option for either scum or SK.

No I don't, I don't have a gun.

[biancospino]

Heip went through because it was viable. The fact that it didn't happen before doesn't make it not viable then. I'm sure Flavor could pull that off if he had put his mind to it

if std flips town, it's more difficult but I think we do the same strategy. if scum kill snakelet invis, python and flavor are cleared and tbh I trust snivy and drew enough to just elim outside of those 4 which should hit scum. well it would be me and bianco but yeah fmpov I don't think we get there, I really think snivy is town and drew has to be a couple specific scum roles to be scum there.

One scum will no-kill for a day to force the roleblock to not be a clear, it's not something that can be relied on when making the POE

mafia can't have a strongman cause the only strongman is a traitor

Multitasking Roleblocker SK and probably some other mafia roles but the site is dying for me rn

Can we please not just do a collab work on the theory of what scum should do

maybe it's worse to only have 1 kill and then that frames python? idk I feel like we're close

If STD is scum we mechanically win with an STD flip

If STD is town then we don't have a winning POE after a solo N3 Snivy NK because the POE is:

1. Invisibility - conftown (Snivy)
   
2. BlueSnakelet - conftown (FN)
   
3. biancospino - Novice Babysitter
   
4. usesPython - 1-shot Bulletproof
   
5. Infinity 324 - 2-shot Doctor
   
6. Doctor Drew - Even Night Gunsmith
   
7. Flavor Leaf - Odd Night Roleblocker

and the Snivy shot can go through because FL can just RB bianco and we have no way of telling and at that point we're at MeLo with no way to tighten the POE

How is 1:1:5 MeLo. Especially with protectives in the mix. It just isn't

[biancospino]

idk. like I'm sort of wondering why bianco claimed what she did as scum so maybe it's just std/flavor anyway.

Maybe I just wanted you to wonder that. We can swap glasses if you'd prefer

@python [on melo] yeah sure, you're probably right with rbs and stuff I suppose. Disregard.
(But also it may not go to 2:1:1 with protectives and/or the groupscum sheating to avoid letting the sk win no?)

Also, point is, heip didn't like scumslip or anything at eod. So presumably people would have been willing to vote there also before. Do you really believe FL is incapable to ramp up a plausible flashwagon out of thin air? Or that he would have tried at least. He can be quite charismatic

[biancospino]

gg, thanks Alianna!

[biancospino]

yeah some of the action resolution was a little rough in spots tbh

Yeah, it's pretty clear if you read the mod PT that I was way in over my head with the mech stuff. The next game I mod will be mountainous lol. I'm going to cringe at myself for advertising, but you guys can join it here if you want to!

but NAR saves the day! that's what i liked about this, since it's all technically normal it all can technically be resolved normally

I actually wonder if things might have gone more smoothly if I'd considered other action resolution systems that might be better-geared for complex setups like this. NAR leaves quite a bit of room for mod discretion in conflicts like the one I was asked about on D4 and I'm not sure I like that. It did make the most sense to use though, since this is

Normal

Idea Mafia.

By a quick glance, it appears that Reasonable Action resolution would indeed resolve the kind of conflicts that happened here.

Thou personally I don't like it too much, it gives some unnatural action resolution imho. For instance if A,B are both combined Vigilante Roleblocker, and they target each other;

• RAR has both of them be blocked;
  
• NAR has one be blocked and die, chosen by some arbitrary tiebreak.

Now the RAR answer needs no tiebreaks, but to me it's a wrong answer, since it means that both are effectively paradoxically roleblocked by a blocked (!) RB action.
Personally I think those sorts of conflicts should be resolves at random, but that's not normal sadly

[biancospino]

i'd like to also formally apologize to the mafia for giving them a

vanilla scumteam

in a role madness game

that was a tough setup to come back from

I second the apology, RNG was definitely not on scum's side this game.

Eh, we inned to play a RNG game we can't be upset when the NRG rolls a crit failure

[biancospino]

(Also the link is broken for some reason. Reasonable Action Resolution this one works)

[biancospino]

At some point I need to write down the resulution schema we use for some realtime (meatworld) Werewolf games. It is kind of bonkers and rng heavy but it makes sense (and btw, it has some weirdness like considering 3 RB targeting each other a paradox, but 4 RBs targeting each other are NOT a paradox but another kind of abnormal situation that is handled in an entirely different way)