Mini Normal 2309 | Finished!
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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Hey Bob! Hey everyone!
Do you want me to claim? Is there a reason we're doing it in f9 with (probably) one scum left alive rather than in f5 or f7? Genuine question I can see lots of reasons just curious which one/s are true
Bob why do you think you survived n2?-
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the worst Snuggly Duckling
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Not going to lie, I secretly hoped I'd luck into a scum slot here. But no, I have to do solving things again. If someone can solve the game for me and deliver me some perfect reads that'd be fantastic.-
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yeah that's fair enough, it's better to give replacements some room to work through stuff especially if it's not endgame in my experience. dragging them through the replace in process causes a lot of confirmation bias and not much else.
what are your reads on slot alignments?-
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I can see my slot is voting iavh. That's fine, without knowing a damn thing about the game I would also vote Brad right now.-
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Ah OK I'm picking up what Bob is puttin down
I'm a vt-
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It's so funny to me that scum have a rolestopper and a doctor and that there's a jailkeeper in this set-up. like someone really did design this and be like "I would very much like a Moderator to have to decide how these interactions work".-
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First impressions readlist so I everyone can roast me post-game
tw
bob
yimmy
nurse
hu tao
naerys
iavh
dragons
brad-
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Dragons is only low for me because I've seen 0 of his posts so far. I've just come out of a game where I epically misread his scumgame so I feel kinda confident rn.-
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uuhh iavh has something subtly tonally towny about him but yeah I think I want him to be town, more than I feel like he's town, honestly
I might need to be careful with vt reads because at this rate we're looking at a total of 4 vanilla townies in a normal game, there's actually a much higher than random chance that 2-3 of us are town-
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also wary the vt pool is a good place for the vig to hide since if they exist, they don't reeeeally need to claim today tbh-
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last but not least - did we get rn's result from n2?-
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aha thanks! i had him down as novice in my brain.In post 2014, Yimmy wrote: there is only one scum left the worst. there's actually a 100% chance that at least 3 of us are town
brad/cs is claimed vig. would've been counterclaimed at this point i think lol
rn is claiming lazy so he got no result n2 (only one scum left)
no!In post 2015, Random Nurse wrote:In post 2013, the worst wrote: last but not least - did we get rn's result from n2?
No. Did you read my claim?-
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now i have. damn that's a good role.-
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hey nice to see you too! i'm really sorry, were you on another account when we met?In post 2019, iambrad wrote:
dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you hereIn post 2017, the worst wrote: now i have. damn that's a good role.
i hope ur apologising for not working on reads w me & not for voting me
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from a solve perspective i'm, like, ~aware~ people are incorrect bc i think my slot is the largest wagon. if i'm on the block today, i'd like to be a bit more comfortable than i am. i'm also pretty good at solving so i think there's merit in not compromise?-liming me in f9 the same day i replace in.
please don't take this as AtE. it's really not. just putting it out there, there's very little i can do to fight this lim and i just do not think i have the time to advance my solve spectacularly.-
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bob3141 - absolutely town
Hu Tao - i really like hu tao for town & trust bob to get this read right
Random Nurse - uhhh tone thing idk
iamveryhappy - whom
Yimmy - total surface read but i like what yimmy is putting down here, doesn't really feel safe, so i don't want to go there.
iambrad - i'll decide after a claim we're not killing a claimed vig
the worst - clearly town smh
Save The Dragons - i am somewhere in the middle about dragons, and i think he becomes easier to solve once we're past the mechanical bottleneck of this phase (which, selfishly, is when i think i add the most value)
Naerys - should be jailkeeping the most epically null vt tonight for a soft-clear
i actually think yimmy is kind of on point. we have 2 flipped scum power roles (looker/kkfc), one pretty powerful flipped town power role (dann), 3 claims of reasonably strong power roles (bob, iambrad?, naerys), hu tao is some flavour of neighbour, random nurse is a mid-strength pr who is a named townie atp. we have 4 claimed vt (happy, yimmy, dragons, myself). normal setups require at least 1 vt, and (in my experience) have a tendency to prefer the highest number of VTs/unclearable TPRs possible while still balanced.
from a setup perspective, i wouldn't be shocked if all of the VT claims are town but that's also far from convincing!
we're also in f9, probably have 4 more lims, so i can see the merit of steering towards hitting VTs at the moment. i just feel very odd not having a handle on the game.-
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oh dude nice to see you again!! i haven't seen you around forever, yeah, welcome back to MSIn post 2023, iambrad wrote:
yes i am killthestory. we talked on discord some time ago, but i deleted the app and went mia on everything for a while. sorry about that :p.In post 2021, the worst wrote:
hey nice to see you too! i'm really sorry, were you on another account when we met?In post 2019, iambrad wrote:
dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you hereIn post 2017, the worst wrote: now i have. damn that's a good role.
i hope ur apologising for not working on reads w me & not for voting me
happy to see you though! didn't know you even still played on mafiascum.
i've been a little inactive on the mafia side lately, just lurking around the discussion forums. i'm never too far from MS lol.-
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cool. i think it may actually be in town's best interest to stop talking about power roles at this point honestly.
i don't think i'll do the full read - kinda trying to whittle down a POE i like the look of then doing ISOs i guess?
i'm down to jam about stuff too, you & yimmy have both got me surprisingly motivated for a VT game where i'm probably about to be lim'd
VOTE: nurse placeholder vote-
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i think the first places i want to look are like; nurse, happy, dragons
second tier is you (brad for posterity), hu tao & yimmy
naerys like, can be scum, but it's in a weirder world than any of those 6.
anyone here on your radar?-
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Why do you scumread Yimmy? I think they're the only person insightfully challenging the status quo this phase so I really like them for town.-
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I am!In post 2030, Random Nurse wrote:In post 2027, the worst wrote: cool. i think it may actually be in town's best interest to stop talking about power roles at this point honestly.
i don't think i'll do the full read - kinda trying to whittle down a POE i like the look of then doing ISOs i guess?
i'm down to jam about stuff too, you & yimmy have both got me surprisingly motivated for a VT game where i'm probably about to be lim'd
VOTE: nurse placeholder vote
So you call me a "mid-strength PR who is a named Townie at this point" and then vote me right after that.
Be consistent.-
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I can't offer too much of use but iavh and rn are both players who I'd consider to have fairly dynamic individualistic personalities. so weird voting patterns are kind of what I'd expect from them, I'll do some more thinking into apparent motives in their voting and stuff like that.In post 2033, iambrad wrote:random nurse and happyimhere specifically have some pretty ??? voting from voting each other day 1 off any considerable wagon to voting together on katy day 2. plus the bbmolla kill implies that there has to be a wolf on that wagon with a kill off wagon. bob i think also is equally worth looking at after being on some random wagon day 1, katy day 2, and no voting late into today until he got into conflict with me & my slot forcing the vote.
your wagon is technically a counterwagon to mine as well, but i didn't think too poorly of your slots decision making. present day 1 lynch off katy lynch day 2 etec etc, but since there's only one scum left (supposedly), then it could be realistic your slot is wolf without me doing any informative reads.
we are counterwagons, but I don't really think either of our preds really acted in a way with bad faith as far as I've seen yet? so I'm kind of lukewarm on the value of flipping one of us for the wagonomics insight. More so I just think town has a lot of control this phase. I might need to be a bit more critical of good role claims & safe lurkers I guess.
btw - we have a rule against using the word "lynch" these days. "eliminate" is the kinda go-to replacement word.-
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Nachomamma8? I haven't seen nacho foreverrrr, I think he got busy with irl stuff. Ellibereth doesn't play here anymore either but he's not banned - he got a scummie that year where he has nearly no misreads idk if you were here when that happened. Dunn is still around a bit too, but I'm not sure I've seen him play a lot of games lately. I still have Dunn on discord but I'm not 100% sure how to contact Elli or Nacho. I can't remember exactly who else might have been part of that group - I know Dunn & MariaR were playing together a bunch around then. That was my hayday too but I only kinda loosely knew them all
on bob -- he has a purity about the way he's conducting himself this phase which I think is a firm hallmark of town-Bob, the only thing I'm wary of is that Hu Tao might have him pocketed. Still not super likely imo but Bob himself is town af.-
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hope this doesn't sound unfairly combative. you are talking about somewhere between 3-5 townies & possibly one scum in this post. can you expand a bit on your reads & who you think the last mafia actually is? I get that you have opinions but the reason you're in my PoE so firmly is because I have no idea why you have the opinions you do.In post 2042, Random Nurse wrote: I'm open to eliminating either Yimmy, iambrad, or the worst at the moment.
The lurkers also bother me at the moment.-
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I guess Yimmy is the first read I should check myself on since having a towny d3 is kinda easy if you have no team-mates to cover-
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Bazuf in 76 is like a caricature of a town post on pg4 idk I guess it is fakeable.
I really like Yimmy's reads in 780 for a few reasons -
- I don't think I'd reach the same conclusions but I believe that what Yimmy is putting down is their version of reality, like it's generally fairly cohesive
- if yimmy is town their top tier is [scumbuddy-kkfc, lurker-dragons] and I'm just not sure pocketing dragons is sensible enough to force these two reasonably idiosyncratic reads to the top of the list?
- the second tier is [iavh (who is VOCAL on d1 usually), hu tao, naerys]. It feels a bit unnatural for scum!yimmy to leave the more charismatic townreads out of their top tier when the top tier itself is very idiosyncratic? like I just think they ~believed~ those top reads.
- kkfc is the most extensively note-taken read and it's just a massive hard townread without batting an eyelid. this just feels like a whack way to treat a scumbuddy
yimmy & kkfc's interactions in general early on just don't feel all that partnery unless yimmy committed to starting the kkfcfc (kkfc fan club) or whatever.
I'll do more on this later but someone else pls expand on yimmy-
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VOTE: dragons rn is kinda towny and I am just deeply deeply null on dragons, this is my new preferred placeholder vote.
wary dragons is also v/la most of the rest of the phase so idk if this is the most productive push-
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Naerys is a bad elimination based on the last 5 paves.-
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thought about yimmy's read list from this perspective?In post 2059, Hu Tao wrote:
Happy is probably town. I don't think he trs both partners here.In post 240, Greeting wrote:
I’m in no rush to decide my vote yet. What I can say as of now is that I have weak townreads onIn post 206, bob3141 wrote: So your out of RVS now. As the game stands where do you feel your actual vote would be most placed. Even if you strongest reads is null scum.KatyKimFanClubandiamveryhappy.-
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nurse can u expand on your yimmy read or talk to me about dragons at all-
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i noticed this would probably be the case after i gave target suggestions i'm so sorryIn post 2064, Naerys wrote: For the worst:i used my 2 shots so i am useless now-
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iavh how do u feel about nurse, dragons & yimmy? i think those are the spicy slots rn, i'm not vibing the brad wagon much-
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do you feel comfortable voting brad?-
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It would be better to end this line of conversation and not eliminate the brad slot today.In post 2077, Yimmy wrote: yeah but there's not a vig is there? if there was i think they would've cc'ed cs, like, a while ago and brad is claiming not to be a vig. i think there's a real chance cs shot bbmolla (as scum) to validate his vig claim since he knew bob would be protected. like it would've been a good move i think. and with the way bbmolla was yesterday it's hard to justify scum shooting him besides rn or cs. or i guess whoever just shot randomly to avoid leaving associatives. that's kinda a cheap way to discount a lead though and i'm not giving it too much credence when we are in f9 with 1 scum left. (it also couldn't have been a shot intended to frame cs cause if that was the case cs could just say "that wasn't me" and it wouldn't go very far i think)
i'm not gonna vote yet though lol. i promised an iso there and i'd feel very dirty if i didn't follow through. tonight!! (it will probably not be super deep, i am busy this weekend and it is long)-
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Bob are you sure about this? I'm reading over dragons' conversation with Greeting now and I just can't clear it.In post 2090, bob3141 wrote:In post 2088, iambrad wrote: what do we know on save the dragons?
They were the one that flipped leading day one wagon from PC to looker. pc was at 4 and looker 3, at that point they switched from Pc to looker. With deadline approaching they effectivly ensured scum would be executed
Greeting had a few intereactions with them. one was post 512 were greeting ask dragon on their view on civils case against kim. Concidering dragons response it doesnt look like scum asking scum about town read on their scum partner. Feels like it would be unnecessary assoications especially when they dodnt do anything to capilitise on the interaction. as dragon responed witha one line. Felt very much like scum casing if any town was biting on civils read
And generally overall their interactions dont feel s/s.
Neither of them seems particularly concerned with sorting the other. Dragons enters with a sus on Greeting, and Greeting doesn't seem concerned.
They're posting at each other and asking each other questions and answering the questions but I can't see any kind of insight or development from either of them out of the conversation?
Greeting & Dragons can both have conversations with scumbuddies, that's something that's in both of their skill sets. What about this convo do you find clearing?
Ftr im not really sure if I view this convo as something explicitly s/s either. I just can't see anything in it that makes me go "dang dragons is town for this", which *is* something I see for yimmy and you for example.-
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can you let me know what you think of yimmy's readlist in 780?In post 2096, Hu Tao wrote: I think Brad is town and that's a bad vote. I think we go yimmy today
In post 2054, the worst wrote: Bazuf in 76 is like a caricature of a town post on pg4 idk I guess it is fakeable.
I really like Yimmy's reads in 780 for a few reasons -
- I don't think I'd reach the same conclusions but I believe that what Yimmy is putting down is their version of reality, like it's generally fairly cohesive
- if yimmy is town their top tier is [scumbuddy-kkfc, lurker-dragons] and I'm just not sure pocketing dragons is sensible enough to force these two reasonably idiosyncratic reads to the top of the list?
- the second tier is [iavh (who is VOCAL on d1 usually), hu tao, naerys]. It feels a bit unnatural for scum!yimmy to leave the more charismatic townreads out of their top tier when the top tier itself is very idiosyncratic? like I just think they ~believed~ those top reads.
- kkfc is the most extensively note-taken read and it's just a massive hard townread without batting an eyelid. this just feels like a whack way to treat a scumbuddy
yimmy & kkfc's interactions in general early on just don't feel all that partnery unless yimmy committed to starting the kkfcfc (kkfc fan club) or whatever.
I'll do more on this later but someone else pls expand on yimmy
for the record, i think yimmy is a passable lim today, but i think i'd prefer someone in {iavh,rn,dragons}-
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fair enough. i can be wrong on this i guess, i just don't feel like yimmy is scummier than anyone else in that pool.-
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i'd also rather yimmy be flipped to me being flipped. i guess. lol.-
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me too. i like bob's read there a lot (ftr bob is like, 110% town regardless of his claim). i would just like it to be challenged because i don't really get the dragons townreads i'm seeing.In post 2101, iambrad wrote: i can see bob's line of thought when he goes into this. you can view it as town v town for sure, but i just don't see it as solid enough to go either way. like, i can easily see a universe where it's just proactive scum play on the same level where i can see them being town. not all wolves will attempt to avoid talking to each other though the nature of the interaction and the carefree posts put me on the same level as bob i.e. not worth voting today especially with the v/la.
naerys kept bob last night. they're pretty near confirmed, as long as we have a vig in play.In post 2102, iambrad wrote: did naerys jailkeep someone last night? is there a specific reasoning behind why they're town to you @Hu Tao, or is it just a solid read you have on the slot?-
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naerys isn't totally cleared, but i'd put her at a fairly similar scum probability to hu tao, maybe slightly less likely. firmly in the "this is total moonlogic and there's several universes which make more sense first" bucket.
bbm seems like a fairly solid vig kill, and a fairly iffy scum nk. i think his only readily available read at the end was that bob was scum on d2. like maybe naerys makes that kill because bbm's read on them is non-obvious but it just feels quite remote compared to the idea of naerys just being town who jailkept bob. not impossible, it's just a decision which is totally intentionally not optimal with the hopes of getting by via dayplay and like. idk. maybe.-
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when i take a step back and align myself i get the yimmy lim a bit more.
i think today's optimal lim is somewhere at the bottom of this list, at some point my personal reads kick in too.
me (insincerely)
bob
naerys
hu tao
brad (pass til d4)
me (sincerely)
yimmy
iavh
dragons
nurse-
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you've done nothing to solve since I got here, haven't engaged with the things I've brought up, your iso is very flat, your role adds nothing to the game. idk if you're scum but I don't think you should be around in f3-4 and I worry that you're on course to be.In post 2107, Random Nurse wrote:In post 2106, the worst wrote: when i take a step back and align myself i get the yimmy lim a bit more.
i think today's optimal lim is somewhere at the bottom of this list, at some point my personal reads kick in too.
me (insincerely)
bob
naerys
hu tao
brad (pass til d4)
me (sincerely)
yimmy
iavh
dragons
nurse
And how exactly do you have me at the bottom of your "reads" list?-
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If I'm being uncharitable - why shouldn't you be there? :p-
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I think brad's vote for you makes a lot of sense in a way I can't explain rn-
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frustratingly I don't think there's really an option outside of you & yimmy rn I feel stuck trying to make one-
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they are. i'm voting dragons i think, i'd also be very keen to vote rn. i'm talking more in terms of people who others are willing to vote-
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VOTE: Nurse
there's 36 hours til deadline. i'll probably be here tomorrow and i trust in my ability to crack this game open there.
if anyone is willing to give me any level of clout - please get off brad. that is a really bad lim at this exact moment, and we can explore why on d4 imo.
i'd like, rather not do yimmy, but i get that.
if anyone else is keen for dragons please @ me but i'm realising i was vanity wagoning-
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RN's vote on brad is by far the worst
i think the yimmy wagon is well intended, and like in the absolute worst case scenario i'll go there, but it's not my favourite.
if anyone is seriously considering brad here, not just doing a policy thing because they didn't like his predecessor, can they please reach out? i'll be in the thread a bunch til deadline that is not the right lim-
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yimmy - could i check where your read on dragons is at? he's a good poster, was there a particular moment when your third eye opened and you were shot down by how towny he is?
if this isn't helpful & you need to sleep we have time and stuff. sorry this is kinda overtly pockety but i have a feeling you may be today's elim kinda by default and i'm not like.. thrilled about it..-
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i pocket as town all the time it's a bad habit.-
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i'm aware i'm being disruptive and interacting with you + a couple of other people in a way which is like, a bit strange, i can explain a lot more on d4.
this game feels extremely solvable, and we have a vig who can help clean up the poe. i'm just very critical that dragons & rn seem to be getting a very free run rn.
how married are you to your yimmy vote & how do you feel about rn?-
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hmm. i guess if i were scum, rn would be firmly in the bucket of like "people i should turn people on to win the game".
do you have a read on dragons atp?-
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you're in my "d3 pass" range, not outside of my poe. i think the consensus poe is flawed, and i think this plist is collectively more able to get a good solve on d4. especially if we get a decent lim today (any of like - yimmy, iavh, dragons, rn or like tbh i'd be a passable lim; you would be fine but similarly just not in a preference); plus vig shot in the same pool.
thing is i don't really want a wide poe. i just don't think i vibe the popular lim choices all that much.
i don't like meta casing very much because it's boring and convincing, but bob is easily the read i am the least stressed about. he's super town.In post 2129, iambrad wrote: actually i'm still paranoid on bob but because of the concept of the scum strat "keep the poe as wide open as possible" i've kind of just quelled it for my own sake LOL-
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naerys uses she pronouns
our hard townreads are very shuffled, i'm pretty firmly bob > naerys > hu tao right now. perhaps hu tao is the person of the three who i'm concerned is the biggest threat, since honestly their dayplay has been really towny.
i think my concern abt rn's play here is similar to my concern about his claim. it's solid, and i could believe it, but it's really nowhere near clearing fmpov. i might also be a bit perplexed that he's just under so many people's radars and intent on shining a light on him, moreso than actually explicitly scumreading him. but i don't have any hard silver bullet scumreads. rn seems a bit checked out & is anti-charisma so i'm wary that if he does go the whole way, he's probably pretty not that hard to swing a lim in a f3 situation.
might go have a look at yimmy's read on rn again-
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this is like... the same as yimmy's read posts d1 - i just find it really perplexing reading this and thinking that people are thinking this is a fabricated read. it's unpopular, unlikely to go through, and is so semantic and unstructured i think it's more of a "got you" feeling than a fake read.In post 2018, Yimmy wrote:whatever
if i put this through a "rn is anticharismatic town" lens, it's also like, not containing a lot of things which make me go "rn is working from a scum mindset". but also i'm glad someone else is not townreading rn!
maybe this is a thing
VOTE: iavh-
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am i missing something here-
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dragons is v/la, i think if we go there we need to be ready to lim-
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dragons seems to lose a lot of steam as scum as the game goes on. he did things d1 (though imo nothing clearing?), scum was guiltied d2, and he's away d3. he's currently v/la.
his current contributions aren't satisfactory for him to be townread from my perspectiev, and nothing i've seen has convinced me on it. he needs to be pressured more to be accurately readable. he's also getting a lot of townreads for reasons that have me scratching my head a bit.-
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which isn't to shade him for activity or for being busy irl. he is acting in a way which is consistent with his scumgame though. he's a very very valuable slot to keep pressure on.-
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i think the way he's played today would have been a very strange, very poor decision if he was the last member of the mafia. i do think he needs more scrutiny, but i think just blindly eliminating him today is a bad decision.
not a tonne of people agree with me here. if you don't that's totally fair, can you talk to me about how you feel about dragons, yimmy, iavh or rn?-
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