Large Normal 244 | Quotes From my Linear Algebra Professor or Random City Skylines or Random Songs: Town Wins!

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Psyche

It's been a bit since I've been here, and Psyche is the only name I recognize. Obviously a scum tell right there

[shaddowez]

Anyone not specifically listed - hard null due to lack of content

Null's a good place to be right now. I promise I'll post more content during the week.

I'm having a hard time deciding on how I feel about ZZZX from 105 and 115. The vote on Flavor feels jokey, but could be a good scum tactic to get his vote on a train and hope something comes from it. However, with it being such a large game we're nowhere close to a hammer, so an "accidental" lynch isn't really within grasp either. The fact he keeps bringing up Psyche but isn't voting him adds to this. Need to revisit this.

(Kids just came back in, hopefully more later but most likely tomorrow)

[shaddowez]

I'm here, but holy cow you guys posted a lost yesterday. About half way through, so slowly catching up. Flavor's interactions with Lich currently have me leaning town on Flavor. More to follow

[shaddowez]

I mean, shit, I'm feeling kind of hostile myself but that doesn't mean I'm Scum.

Maybe I'm just hungry.

Have a Snickers.

------------------------------

Getting a town read on JV. It's easier for scum to vote without motivation, and they seem to be digging into people for reasons why they're voting/reading into things. I also think that TL is trying to deflect in 506

[shaddowez]

I'll say JV's pressure on me is why JV isn't top read

I'm not sure I follow this logic. He's near the top, with the reason of "good for pushing", but you don't like that it's on you. When you're town, if you suspect someone's scum don't you want to push them? Backing off reads more as scum to me, because it's the only way you know that the person you're pressuring

isn't

scum (or at least on your team).

[shaddowez]

Alright, I'm caught up. Willing to sheep on bianco, but I feel better with this right now:

VOTE: ZZZX

[shaddowez]

22 pages overnight??? y'all are crazy I'm not reading any of that

If you ISO everyone but FL/TL/JV, it cuts out a lot. Then just ISO the three of them together.

[shaddowez]

that sounds like a scumslip for some reason

Is that a higher or lower confidence read than your current target?

[shaddowez]

okay bbmolla 100% scum slipped

idk how to read 847 any other way

VOTE: BBmolla

this is only compounded by Flavor Leaf scumreading BBmolla in 779

The post does read really strange, but there's a couple issues I have with it:

1) It would entail daytalk, which adds another perspective to the game
2) Since FL did scumread BBmolla in that post, it almost seems like that would have to be meta.

[shaddowez]

I need to lrn2read. I'm confused by what you mean with your second point, but it makes more sense than it being a random post in thread.

VOTE: BBmolla

Although I'm not against joining JV on camel either. Coming in to point out a scumslip, without actually voting that person, while having their vote still on a random target, gives me scumfeels.

[shaddowez]

FL doesn’t think I’m scum lmfao

This doesn't seem like a scumslip to me, just because FL has been theorising BBmolla as scum. So it seems like BBmolla is questioning/dismissing that. If FL had been townreading BBmolla, yes it would look like a slip.

This is what has me questioning it. I think I said it too, but if FL wasn't SR BBmolla, it would be much clearer. However, there was nothing in the convo happening at the time to make that post make any sense in thread either. While it could be another day chat (Masons, eg), that post definitely seems like it was meant to be inserted into a conversation that wasn't happening here.

[shaddowez]

Right - so how does that explain your post?

[shaddowez]

It appears I'm on an opposing schedule from most of you, I leave for the day and come back to 20ish more pages.

VOTE: the worst

this is the worst player by far

This was after T3 let us know they were V/LA in 1236. Even if you have no reads you're putting a vote where nobody else is even looking, essentially just parking for no good reason. It's not even like you're trying to get a wagon started on them since you provided no good reasoning except a pun on their name. You also vote parked on Merlyn early on for not doing anything, while not engaging.

Approximately half of your votes are fluff, and with the exception of the thin case on BBmolla none of your votes have had any semblance of logic behind them.

The random post from BB still doesn't make sense to me, but the more I think about it the less it makes sense as a slip either. Going to look at IAVH a little more before sheeping that wagon, but I'm comfortable here for now:

VOTE: camel

[shaddowez]

Day 1 VC 5:

iamveryhappy (7): Shrek, furtiveglance, JacksonVirgo, Flavor Leaf, TemporalLich, CamelCasedSnivy, pisskop
Hu Tao (3): Merlyn, Klazam, bob3141
Flavor Leaf (2): Hu Tao, iamveryhappy
ZZZX (2): Save the Dragons, Naerys
camelCasedSnivy (2): davesaz, shaddowez
furtiveglance (1): Psyche
Shrek (1): ZZZX
TemporalLich (1): BBMolla
pisskop (1): the worst

Not voting (3): Random Nurse, Flavia, Doctor Drew

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to eliminate

.

Modified for my own sanity

[shaddowez]

Random Nurse

- You're the only active(ish) player that hasn't voted yet this game, haven't made any strong reads, and made a naked D1 claim. Care to provide any input whatsoever? How about you start with following through on 545

[shaddowez]

Please note that the use of the word "lynch" is not allowed on this website.

My bad, I haven't been around for a while and didn't realize that had changed! Can you please modify my post for me to correct that?

[shaddowez]

the pun was for fun but it had a point: the worst hadn't done much. did you have a problem with the early wagon on bianco?

Did I have a problem with it, not exactly. It was also 20ish pages ago, and their early posts had a strange vibe to them. However, lack of content didn't make me vote them, instead I went with an SR of mine (843, based on 170). A wagon that's already started is also easier to move the game than just throwing your vote on someone nobody else is reading, especially without trying to convince other people that they should be voting there (or, y'know, OMGUSing).

[shaddowez]

so, there are lot of players who have done very little of substance so far this game. why single camel out?

Little substance is generally a null for me (hence me not specifically scumreading the worst or bianco). camel reads differently, like he's trying to post and do something, without actually doing so. This also isn't brand new, I called out this behavior and was considering voting him back in 866

[shaddowez]

If camel flips scum, between the sheep on me and this there's no way the worst is town:

i'm also getting a warm vibe from snivy.

Note: At the point of that post, camel had just recently hopped on the happy wagon based on pisskop's suggestion without any reason, and had been on the worst right before that.

[shaddowez]

Do you think they are in your view partnered or simply both scum but from different factions

Rethinking it, my initial though process doesn't actually make sense. I was thinking same faction because otherwise whether camel flips town or scum the worst's actions would be the same level of scuminess. However, it is a bit too blatant for them to be s/s (although not out of the question, it could be iocaine powder)

is sheeping scum?

Sheeping is not inherently scummy, and the point of that comment was that you had been voting the person that randomly town read you until you sheeped. Not committing and continuing to wagonhop without providing any of your own thought processes, on the other hand, is scummy

[shaddowez]

Had time to read and catchup, but have a busy day at work today so may not get to post as much as I'd like.

tw

I saw your posts at me, will address as soon as I can.

[shaddowez]

Had a bunch more stuff come up at work than I was expecting, and now I have a heck of a lot more pages to catch up on. I know I still owe

the worst

an answer to something he posed to me a few days ago, will get to that shortly. I see a

ZZZX

wagon which I was fine with early on, but with a self vote and only 2 more votes if I hopped on I want to revisit before voting there. If anyone has any specific ISOs or things they think I should look at, post and I'll visit them as I can.

[shaddowez]

If camel flips scum, between the sheep on me and this there's no way the worst is town:

i'm also getting a warm vibe from snivy.

Note: At the point of that post, camel had just recently hopped on the happy wagon based on pisskop's suggestion without any reason, and had been on the worst right before that.

Do you think they are in your view partnered or simply both scum but from different factions

Rethinking it, my initial though process doesn't actually make sense. I was thinking same faction because otherwise whether camel flips town or scum the worst's actions would be the same level of scuminess. However, it is a bit too blatant for them to be s/s (although not out of the question, it could be iocaine powder)

iocaine powder is my favourite alternate terminology for wifom

based on this why are you not scumreading me independent of snivy's alignment?

At this point you were pretty much a hard null for me. You had a lowish post count (especially comparatively), and hadn't done anything that I would consider either especially towny or especially scummy.

Continuing on, since I was already looking at your ISO to remember where I was at with you at that point.....

i do wish that shaddowez was easier to wagon ngl

Hmmm, we may be actually looking at this the same way actually......with slightly different views of the wagon.

Why shoulnd't people care about it?

...
it's just a boring wagon on a boring slot and i kind of want more exciting things to happen. iavh's actual flip feels close to rand and i don't feel like i'm getting any closer to having a read.

...

What makes a wagon on me so much more interesting than the wagon on IAVH that was happening at the time?

[shaddowez]

Town

Random Nurse, Klazam, Flavor Leaf, the worst
Naerys, Psyche, Shrek, Save the Dragons, shaddowez, BBmolla, Doctor Drew
iamveryhappy, camelCasedSnivy, davesaz, bob3141, TemporalLich, pisskop

biancospino

-- idk/null tier
furtiveglance, Hu Tao, JacksonVirgo, ZZZX, Aisa

Merlyn

Scum

I'm all caught up, AMA

It's nice to see someone else who's finding Klazam just like, very towny. Also dig the hard townread on RN.

Actually I like this list a bunch

What makes you like Naerys & shaddowez? & do you have like, a specific reason to scumread furtive?

Which part of this list do you actually like? Prior to this you said snivy was towny (listed as null here) and want to wagon me (listed as slight town here). You also aren't thrilled with either the IAVH or Hu potential wagons, listed as null and scum here. I'm sure there's more, but we'll start with that

[shaddowez]

Did an FL/ZZZX ISO, and tried processing through all the noise. My ZZZX SR was based on early posts, and not something I had gone back to revisit in a while. Rereading, the push looks really thin and I'm REALLY not liking

the worst

's positioning and vote, though I'm trying not to tunnel. Still working through things, gonna check out IAVH next because I owe that a read.

[shaddowez]

shyte. sorry

I just did it earlier this game, and have already had to retype at least two posts.

[shaddowez]

zzzx is town but ok

can someone please tell me why i should go on zzzx

Snivy

, why did you go from a TR to willing to vote him at all in 11 posts, only 2 of which even had to do with them?

[shaddowez]

Iavh is a short read. He ate'd a bit as he was getting voted and then faded back into the background when the wagon died off

Oh wow, yeah....that's definitely a policy lim at best. Then again, with how active some players have been others are getting ignored and scum could coast. We're more likely to hit town than scum today anyway so I'd be willing to move there just to get to D2, but there are definitely places I'd rather be.

[shaddowez]

Did an FL/ZZZX ISO, and tried processing through all the noise. My ZZZX SR was based on early posts, and not something I had gone back to revisit in a while. Rereading, the push looks really thin and I'm REALLY not liking

the worst

's positioning and vote, though I'm trying not to tunnel. Still working through things, gonna check out IAVH next because I owe that a read.

can you summarize what you're feeling on worst in specific because we might share the same opinion here

Heading to lunch, will answer this when I get back though

[shaddowez]

Did an FL/ZZZX ISO, and tried processing through all the noise. My ZZZX SR was based on early posts, and not something I had gone back to revisit in a while. Rereading, the push looks really thin and I'm REALLY not liking

the worst

's positioning and vote, though I'm trying not to tunnel. Still working through things, gonna check out IAVH next because I owe that a read.

can you summarize what you're feeling on worst in specific because we might share the same opinion here

Heading to lunch, will answer this when I get back though

They're not really voicing their opinions on anything. They ask a lot of questions, specifically regarding peoples reads. On the surface, that sounds towny insomuch as it

looks

like they're scumhunting, trying to derive whether the person they're asking questions of had reasons or whatnot. The problem is they don't ever seem to actually do anything with that info, outside of occasionally a reply post.

None of their votes have had any reasoning behind them (as in, they hadn't expressed any interest in voting prior to doing so), and with the exception of their very first (RVS) vote they've just sheeped early on.

So now that I've gone and done this again, I still don't like Snivy but feel like this is a good place to push.

VOTE: the worst

[shaddowez]

Iavh is a short read. He ate'd a bit as he was getting voted and then faded back into the background when the wagon died off

Oh wow, yeah....that's definitely a policy lim at best. Then again, with how active some players have been others are getting ignored and scum could coast. We're more likely to hit town than scum today anyway so I'd be willing to move there just to get to D2, but there are definitely places I'd rather be.

I think showing no interest in the game unless you're getting run up is kind of scummy

I would say it's definitely anti-town, but what specifically makes it scummy to you? (Too lazy to look it up, but is something like

Survivor

normal?)

[shaddowez]

so the worst is likely to be scum and a good lim for today?

The way I see it, yeah

[shaddowez]

Survivor is not Normal because benign third parties are not Normal and Survivor is immensely unfun, has zero player agency, leads to kingmaker scenarios, and makes setups hard to balance.

Survivor should never be Normal.

I repeat,

Survivor should never be Normal.

That's fair....also just looked up the Normal Roles page, forgot that existed. I'm still not sold on it being explicitly scummy, but that does make it scummier.

[shaddowez]

Psyche gotta oppose both his buddies’ lims today, makes sense.

Yeah, let’s end on ZZZx, Psyche, or TL today.

IAVH/CSF kinda have partner equity, but I can see CSF being town and the duck being in that spot.

I’m against TL. I’m for Psyche. I’m neutral on ZZ

why neutral if you think claiming town as zzzx did is unlikely as scum?

I thought iavh claimed the vt

Only if he crumbed

[shaddowez]

Interesting flips - based on a couple of posts I really want to hear from a specific person. I'll share more thoughts once they've posted.

[shaddowez]

Town

Random Nurse, Klazam, Flavor Leaf, the worst
Naerys, Psyche, Shrek, Save the Dragons, shaddowez, BBmolla, Doctor Drew
iamveryhappy, camelCasedSnivy, davesaz, bob3141, TemporalLich, pisskop

biancospino

-- idk/null tier
furtiveglance, Hu Tao, JacksonVirgo, ZZZX, Aisa

Merlyn

Scum

I'm all caught up, AMA

It's nice to see someone else who's finding Klazam just like, very towny. Also dig the hard townread on RN.

Actually I like this list a bunch

What makes you like Naerys & shaddowez? & do you have like, a specific reason to scumread furtive?

Which part of this list do you actually like? Prior to this you said snivy was towny (listed as null here) and want to wagon me (listed as slight town here). You also aren't thrilled with either the IAVH or Hu potential wagons, listed as null and scum here. I'm sure there's more, but we'll start with that

Bringing this post back up....for posterity

[shaddowez]

By point of focus do you mean you think they may be red scum with Klazam, or want to look into them further? If the first, why do you think that the only two people he'd go after would be scumbuddies based on your reasoning?

[shaddowez]

I've had an SR on Camel for most of the game, and this doesn't exactly help that.

Also for some reason Camel’s joke got a scumping for me, but I’m not going into that right now.

Camel, other than that ping on the jokeclaim, I like for the most part, esp his last post

This was camel's last post as of the time of Klazam's post:

like

VOTE: Merlym

this also exists?

[shaddowez]

By point of focus do you mean you think they may be red scum with Klazam, or want to look into them further? If the first, why do you think that the only two people he'd go after would be scumbuddies based on your reasoning?

I prefer to pick couple of people to whom i pay increased attention. Klazam admitted he likes to bus, so CSF could be his buddy. Tho i would see Hu Tao as wolf, tbh.

That's fair. Initially I read it as thinking they were both buddies, which just didn't make sense to me.

[shaddowez]

Hey, Ima be transparent without spilling my life story as this is a game but I've gotta take care of my mum and she lives out in the middle of woop woop so I won't have much internet for a bit, if at all (service is dog water out that way). 72 hours max but really shouldn't be that long. Sorry guys, surely you understand.

RL comes first, hope everything turns out ok!

[shaddowez]

Another naked sheep vote, and looking at their ISO there's literally a single post interacting with bob and zero where bob is directly mentioned. Referring back to the good old "agreed" read list, bob is null.

Reviewing the posts around pisskop's link, also saw this:

I actually liked how worst was willing to question Temporal on their read on me even given earlier stance on how worst thought Temp was not the place to go today, instead of doubling down and ignoring Temp.

Gonna be a hard sell to move me right now.

VOTE: the worst

[shaddowez]

STD

- why the bob vote? I see you had them towards the bottom of your read list in 1838, but you actually don't have any other references to them at all.

[shaddowez]

Other than Pisskop, I trust the players on Hu Tao wagon more than the ones on Duck too.

I'm hurt.

Also, your trust doesn't match your read list in 2558, as a matter of fact one of the people on the Hu wagon was in your scum list on that post. What's changed with those reads?

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Unvote

Had a rough day at work yesterday and missed a LOT, but have tried to catch up some. Not quite sure where I'm placing my vote yet, need to reread some things, but considering the flips and claims it's not here.

There seems to be a decent amount of role-fishing going on which I'm not thrilled with, but I don't remember exactly who I saw that from. Also, can someone tell me where they think the crumb was that Drew was blocking JV or Psyche? I read into a crumb that it would be someone else.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Unvote

Had a rough day at work yesterday and missed a LOT, but have tried to catch up some. Not quite sure where I'm placing my vote yet, need to reread some things, but considering the flips and claims it's not here.

There seems to be a decent amount of role-fishing going on which I'm not thrilled with, but I don't remember exactly who I saw that from. Also, can someone tell me where they think the crumb was that Drew was blocking JV or Psyche? I read into a crumb that it would be someone else.

Crumb was me or Psyche, but like 95% it was Psyche, and he was telling it to me

Sorry, misremembered the second person. I read 2689 as a crumb that he was gonna block BB. If that is the case, then assuming JV's claim is true the soft guilty on Psyche becomes a lot more definite. At this point, I have no reason to doubt JV's claim, so really the question is how likely is it that Drew blocked him?

[shaddowez]

Above is assuming no other roleblocking/stopping abilities of course

[shaddowez]

I technically think ideal strategy is to kill me either tonight (JV) or tomorrow but bob's point is the best reason to lim me today. Substantial discussion about who I should shoot has good odds of leading to more PR claims. I'd initially thought RN claimed bc he saw the "shoot RN" instruction but he has denied it I think.

He claims he didn't know we planned on you shooting him

I sort of believe that, because if RN thinks Psyche is scum (which based on his vote is the case), I could see a case to

not

claim BP

P-Edit: I get the not self-voting, but if you're town doesn't a readlist help your wincon? After the flip your reads could be used to help inform the rest of us.

[shaddowez]

Re-read your post, and I think that it absolutely

could

help down the line

[shaddowez]

Even without explicitly telling us who you're aiming at, your list could inform us enough that NKA would be useful as well.

[shaddowez]

I sort of believe that, because if RN thinks Psyche is scum (which based on his vote is the case), I could see a case to not claim BP

RN would have no idea if Psyche is scum or not.

I realize that, if he did we'd be having a completely different discussion. I'm saying that if he

thought

Psyche was scum and Psyche was planning on targeting RN, Psyche has two options:

1) not target RN, in which case he lied about what he was going to do and probably get speedlimmed tomorrow, or
2) target RN, in which case if RN actually is BP we'd have one less town NK

In either of these cases, not claiming would have made more sense. That said, need to look into why he

did

claim, since there doesn't seem to be a good reason for that either.

[shaddowez]

Checking in and catching up - weekend starts are always going to kill me. I saw the flips, but haven't gotten much further than that. Going to read, but in the meantime have there been any new solid theories on why Psyche didn't get the fruit JV claims to have given other than the possibility of another role-block like mechanism?

[shaddowez]

For my review:

End of Day 1:

iamveryhappy

(12 [HAMMERED]): Cat Scratch Fever, TemporalLich, ZZZX, furtiveglance, Save The Dragons, Aisa, BBmolla, davesaz,

Flavor Leaf

, camelCasedSnivy,

Doctor Drew

, Naerys
Cat Scratch Fever (3): Shrek,

Klazam

,

Hu Tao

BBMolla (1):

Psyche

Psyche

(1): JacksonVirgo

Hu Tao

(1): bob3141
JacksonVirgo (1):

iamveryhappy

End of Day 2:

Psyche

(11 [ELIMINATED]): Random Nurse, pisskop, JacksonVirgo, furtiveglance, Naerys, TemporalLich, bob3141, davesaz,

Hu Tao

, camelCasedSnivy, Save the Dragons

Hu Tao

(6): Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst,

Flavor Leaf

,

Psyche

[shaddowez]

Not quite caught up yet (who am I kidding, I'm not even close to caught up yet), but I like this wagon. Was starting to look at STD before the last lim. Reasons forthcoming

VOTE: STD

[shaddowez]

STD's progression:

Early game

votes ZZZX in RVS. Ok, whatever.
Randomly votes Klazam - only about page 10, game had gotten pseudo-serious though. A little strange, but (at the time), fine.....however:
Without much engagement, jumps off of Klazam and back to ZZZX. Again, back then it looked weird, but now looks like a bus on

Klazam

Mid game

Not too much. Posts a few random times listing people as "town" but gives no reasons.
Outside of a few random votes (1 on

iavh

and 1 on

Hu

included). never actually gives any sort of SR.
More random naked votes, most on now conftowns

Late game (now)

Not really much to add. 4280 really rubs me the wrong way though.

[shaddowez]

This is still a huge list, but my based on vote placements I'ma bet scum lies in here:

bob3141, davesaz, camelCasedSnivy, Save the Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst

[shaddowez]

CCS latest posting is scummy

Feels really checked out of the game

Yeah, I voted Snivy earlier and there's a lot recently I don't like again.

[shaddowez]

Save the dragon wagon is just yesterdays hu tao wagon all over again.

How so?

[shaddowez]

my thing with any vca is that we've had a lot of sudden pivoting

That's a good point, I can try and go back to look at where placements were earlier in the wagon. I'd still place a good half of that list in my SR pile at this point, regardless of vote placement though.

[shaddowez]

Sorry, work is taking more attention than normal (I work for the USG and have a pending government shutdown).

UNVOTE: kind of a strange claim to come from scum

But not from town?

Assuming that RN's BP claim is true (regardless of alignment) StD's claim could also be covering in case there's a tracker.

[shaddowez]

POE:
the worst
bob3141
TemporalLich
Cat Scratch Fever
Save The Dragons
Shrek
pisskop
shaddowez
camelCasedSnivy
Random Nurse Bulletproof
bbmolla VT
davesaz
JacksonVirgo JOAT Loyal FVendor, Vigilante.
Naerys
furtiveglance
Aisa

This list is

drastically

different than the vibe I'm getting from pretty much anyone else in this game. I'm gonna need some reasons on a lot of these reads.

[shaddowez]

Sorry, work is taking more attention than normal (I work for the USG and have a pending government shutdown).

UNVOTE: kind of a strange claim to come from scum

But not from town?

Assuming that RN's BP claim is true (regardless of alignment) StD's claim could also be covering in case there's a tracker.

well if he's town then nothing he can really do

UNVOTE:

Talk me to like I'm 5.....what???

[shaddowez]

... Or i used random.org to generate it?

I'm more inclined to believe this one. I can't be the only one that would believe in any universe the worst is your top TR.

[shaddowez]

... Or i used random.org to generate it?

I'm more inclined to believe this one. I can't be the only one that would believe in any universe the worst is your top TR.

And you are...

Spoiler: wow

Correct!

Woot! Do I get a cookie?

[shaddowez]

Ugh - I've tried to write a night action analysis post like 2 or 3 times, and every time I do it comes back to a good possibility that JV is scum. Going to write up my thoughts both ways, but it might be long and take a little while

[shaddowez]

Ugh - I've tried to write a night action analysis post like 2 or 3 times, and every time I do it comes back to a good possibility that JV is scum. Going to write up my thoughts both ways, but it might be long and take a little while

And why is that an ugh? If I’m likely wolf mechanically, I’m likely wolf mechanically I don’t understand why that’s an “ugh”

Twofold, first general annoyance of having to keep redoing it because I get down a train of thought and realize it makes sense, and second because like pisskop I've been TRing you most of the game.

[shaddowez]

realize it doesn't make sense

kinda like me....no reason to redo them if they make sense

[shaddowez]

Known/Claimed Kill Abilities -

Scum

,

Wolf

,

Psyche (Vig)

, JV (JoaT Vig, 1x)
Known/Claimed Roleblocking Abilities -

DoctorDrew (RB)

, StD (RB)
Known/Claimed Other Abilities - JV (JoaT FV)

Assuming JV is town

N1

- Based on kill actions/claims, there should have been 3 kills.

Psyche

claimed to have shot at BBM, which failed due to a vanilla claim by BBM in 3169,

after

Psyche revealed his complex modifier in 3155. JV claims to have attempted to Loyal FV

Psyche

, which didn't happen.

DoctorDrew

could have roleblocked JV, which seems unlikely. In 4410 StD claims to have blocked RN, which changes nothing about the events.

At this point, Psyche's claim makes sense and also explains why there were only 2 kills. Unless there's a

third

roleblock/stop ability out there, the FV should have worked unless Scum!StD actually blocked JV, not RN like he's claiming.

N2

- Based on kill actions/claims, there should have been 3 kills. StD claims to have blocked and JV claims to have shot

Hu Tao

. Considering this is after the flips, there's no way to confirm/deny alignment since HT was vanilla. However, this doesn't explain the lack of a kill, which again leads to the possibility of a third blocker. Another options is Scum!StD blocked JV, not

Hu Tao

like claimed.

Assuming JV is scum (with a fakeclaim)

N1

- JV doesn't actually FV Psyche. StD

could

still be scum, but their alignment doesn't matter as much in this scenario. All other actions play out the same as in the previous scenario.

N2

- If Scum!JV exists and JoaT was a fakeclaim, there's no missing third shot. Again, StD

could

still be scum, but their alignment doesn't matter as much in this scenario. All other actions play out the same as in the previous scenario.

I've been TRing JV a heck of a lot harder than I have StD this game, but the second scenario almost makes more sense. While the presence of a second Town RB is questionable, the existence of 2 Town RB

plus

another roleblocking/stopping action is almost implausible.

[shaddowez]

Yeah, I'm not committed to a JV flip yet.

JV, please do not do this yet

- I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of JV claiming the rest of his actions prior to this day ending. If he's fakeclaiming, it should be somewhat easier to prove, but if he's not then it makes him a prime target. Noodling on this

[shaddowez]

Enchant and shadow I think look the worst on my wagon

VOTE: enchant don't think this is town at all

Even worse than RN (who you've voted for twice this day phase already), or CSF (who you've also voted for....twice. TBF they're not on your wagon currently, though.)?

[shaddowez]

Sorry I missed yesterday - I'm here most of today and tomorrow definitely.

I have mostly caught up, and my vote hasn't changed. Nothing about StD's ISO screams town, crumbs a role, or makes enough sense to not SR him. If he's a RB, I don't see him as town.

I'm also willing to wagon Snivy. Need to review his ISO for a case, but I know I haven't liked him all game and his "contributions" in the last few pages definitely haven't swayed me.

I'm starting to like the worst a little more. Ironically it's the fact that he's still pushing people to look at me harder that is doing so.

More to come.

[shaddowez]

i dunno what else to say other then you all are chuckleheads

And this is a good part of why I'm scumreading you. Instead of doing anything active (with the slight exception of your Enchant exchanges), you're just deflecting. If you're a mislim, you should still be doing something ahead of the end of day, not just saying "You're wrong"

[shaddowez]

So, most of your quotes are either regarding Enchant (which I excluded) or deflecting, like I said. You've voted or PoE'd several people, but haven't given any reason on why you SR them, or TR the others - it's just "Yep, they're town", or "Nope, they're scum".

it's frustrating because my WIM is clearly high and i keep asking people to explain themselves and they just disappear

What's WIM? If I've seen that acronym before, I'm not recalling it.

[shaddowez]

WIM = want it more, which Save The Dragons is only claiming to have to stall a hammer

basically mafia buzzword version of tryhardiness afaik

Thanks for the explanation!

TL, JV, and Dave have done this as well (and to a lesser extent BBMolla).

It may be just because they're loud and post a lot, but I feel that both JV and TL have done other stuff as well. I'll review their ISOs to see how much of this I agree with. Dave and BBMolla, I agree more with your assessment on. With StD, that's the majority of what he's done and has very little contributions outside of that to make it look like he's actually trying to find scum.

P-Edit

: I thought RN was referring to my argument against StD

[shaddowez]

I am entertained by idea of letting STD live just to piss off other mafia team.

.....wut?

[shaddowez]

is it me or is th stg wagon little more than low handing fruit

It could be, but I find it hard to believe that all of the scum are on his wagon already.

P-Edit

: Where do you see dave being the main driver of the StD wagon? He's not even voting there

[shaddowez]

STD's claimed N1 action makes sense. If an extra kill shows up, remember this. I don't remember what was said, if anything, about N2. If you aren't faded, it would be wise to give us your top 3-5 scumreads daily as a precautionary measure.

N2 he claimed to RB

Hu Tao

.

Even if I agreed that RBing RN on N1 made sense, where do you think an extra kill would come from in the future, based on the NA's already revealed?

is it me or is th stg wagon little more than low handing fruit

It could be, but I find it hard to believe that all of the scum are on his wagon already.

P-Edit

: Where do you see dave being the main driver of the StD wagon? He's not even voting there

i was talking about nurse aggressivly driving STG wagon. clear tunneling town. with me saying i would need to look closer at daves vote as thats where i would expect scum to position.

Gotcha, I missed the important "voting" word when I read it and just saw "they are the main driver", mah bad but I appreciate your explanation.

[shaddowez]

The issue is that this game has a lot of players who are similarly difficult to read for me. I have like 2 confident townreads, a few players who are "meh, they can live for now", and no idea on everyone else.

Who are your confident townreads, then?

RN and furtive
Need to run but I can elaborate when I come back if I need to

I'd like to hear your thoughts

Aisa is mafia

How do you know?

I am cop

I don't believe this for a second

[shaddowez]

but yeah, eliminating JacksonVirgo would be eliminating a strong town voice for no reason other than setup speculation

pedit: doctor drew crumbed a roleblock on BBmolla

Thank you for noticing that, I swear I was the only one.

I am still shocked no one wants to lim JOAT which basically lied about giving fruit.

Are you completely discounting the possibility of another roleblock/rolestop type ability? If so, why?

[shaddowez]

Cat Scratch Fever (1): Shrek
Random Nurse (1): davesaz
camelCasedSnivy (1): bob3141

All of these are starting to bother me more and more, since there's been no push to convince anyone else that the people they're voting are scum (Dave had a slight push against RN early on), but are either not doing anything or are just trying to convince us why they're

NOT

voting CSF or StD.

[shaddowez]

NOT voting

dave

or StD.

Posted the name of the votee I was looking at, not what I meant to type

[shaddowez]

are still no takers for snivy, wagonomics says shoot there or atleast soemone that jumped on both hu wagon last day and dragon here

I'm not against a Snivy wagon. Hell, let's see what happens.

VOTE: Snivy

[shaddowez]

People should look at enchant, gob, the worst, and ccs

this post is why I cannot scumread gob

If this wasn't multiball I could see this, but since there's two scum factions one SR's read shouldn't be a leading factor on another read.

i think we are just goign to have to pick between one of dave, camel and dragon as its day and half to teh deadline

i would go for either dave or camel, i think dragon is town and there claimed pr could have some use latter in game.

Its not liek town roleblock is even a great fake claim for scum as with drews flip it would be of been better to claim vt or another role e.g. vannilla cop. that way his faction could have fished for 2 pr/vannilla roles

I could go for StD or camel, so I feel like we should compromise on camel. I'm curious what you saw in 5288 that made you feel the wagon wasn't going anywhere.

[shaddowez]

There was a post I saw where someone (I

think

it was

CSF

) that was asking about my reasoning for camel. If you think the one post you pointed out was all I had, you haven't looked at my ISO.

[shaddowez]

...what the fuck? JV has some 'splaining to do post game.

Alright, our pool is getting pretty small. Snivy, dave, and CSF have all had failed attempted wagons on them (I may be missing someone too). The people I'm not currently willing to entertain at all right now are RN, TL, or pisskop.

[shaddowez]

Reminder coloring of POE is random.

Color (and if so, do you just mean of the scum reads or everything?), or order? I've got reasons for asking.

[shaddowez]

Actually

VOTE: bbm

Interested in your thoughts on this one. Unless one of our other townies lied to us, we can be pretty sure Pysche wasn't blocked. That means that bbm isn't a PR, so could either be VT or goon.

[shaddowez]

I'm gonna go rogue here for a bit. Call me crazy, to be fair you're probably right

VOTE: furtiveglance

[shaddowez]

I'm gonna go rogue here for a bit. Call me crazy, to be fair you're probably right

VOTE: furtiveglance

Any reason?

Yes, but admittedly it's a pretty bad one. I'm using my own meta - I'm not a strong player, I don't have a high post count, and I generally don't do a great job of getting wagons started. I almost always get mislimmed super early because I get SR hard, or get the "pseudo-scum" read and make it to late game because scum feels I'm an easy target. There's even a game from several years ago where I had a guilty on a WW as a seer, and because they were a stronger player I got limmed, not them. furtive has actively TR'd me a few times this game, which to me at this point just reads as I'm not on his team.

[shaddowez]

I'm gonna go rogue here for a bit. Call me crazy, to be fair you're probably right

VOTE: furtiveglance

Anything you want to ask me?

Does pineapple belong on pizza or no?

Only with ham and white sauce!

[shaddowez]

Um guys I just have a little idea it might be bad because I'm such a weak non-threatening player and you can tell me if this is completely dumb but I've actually been really scummy this game so anyone who townread me is scum

See, if I really wanted people's opinions I would have asked for them

before

voting for you. So instead, I voted you, gave what I know is a weak reason when asked for it, and instead of continuing to scumhunt, you're just disparaging my reason.

[shaddowez]

Didn't say you were my biggest scumread, but I did want to see what happened.

It's early in the day, there are literally 4 votes in play right now, I've got room to poke and prod.

[shaddowez]

3 v 3 is what I think we've all been working under the assumption of. If it does happen to be 4v4, we almost definitely lose if we have a mislim today unless both scum teams crosskill

[shaddowez]

so furtiveglance is scum if Save The Dragons flips scum

furtiveglance is town

This doesn't work in multiball, though

[shaddowez]

attempting to find the scum in the alive playerlist, assuming 3 of each scumteam and no SK:

Random Nurse

- would be the likely SK, but I doubt the game is SKattic

pisskop

camelCasedSnivy

davesaz

Cat Scratch Fever

Naerys

bob3141

furtiveglance

Enchant

the worst

BBMolla

gob

shaddowez

I....don't hate this list. I'm still tunneled on Snivy though, so have a hard time believing he's town.

Want to reread klazam too, and see if I agree with those associations.

[shaddowez]

Days 2 and 3 were basically torpedoed by JV lying as town for completely unknown reasons.

So much this. I don't think Psyche would have been limmed if not for that JV play.

[shaddowez]

There's definitely not much to go on in Klazam's ISO, but based on how he handled the votes/interactions with our known townies now I can easily see 2324 having been an early bus.

CSF's memory regarding Aisa being on StD's wagon and subsequent "defense" in 5664 seems a little "Oh crud, I got called out, what do I say?". The only posts Aisa have about questioning the StD wagon are 5328 and 5443, which I wouldn't personally categorize as "quite vocal".

Her early readslist is becoming more and more suspect as well. I'm happy moving here

VOTE: CSF

[shaddowez]

Like I said at the time, I'm pretty sure that first list was just to disrupt the status quo/townblocking

I thought I directly interacted with that list as well, but it was indirect with the worst in 2273 (also 2935).

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- V/LA until Tuesday.

[shaddowez]

Started a new role at work today and didn't have a chance to catch up until now, reading through the 11ish pages I've missed.

[shaddowez]

if not today then tommorow can we kill one of enchant or TL

because there is definitely a good chance they will both go for another mislim on dave

Something about the phrasing of this post bothers me. I know in multiball "mislim" is a weird term coming from scum, but the certainty of the statement irks me.

CSF's survivalism (which happens to be gamesolving under pressure) is a reason for a townread, not a scumread

I still scumread CSF for being very lurky and having town equity

I don't agree that CSF has been lurky, especially compared to some other players. I can still understand a CSF SR, but not for that reason.

if not today then tommorow can we kill one of enchant or TL

because there is definitely a good chance they will both go for another mislim on dave

im not even sure if CSFs flip matters since its multiball

I would like to lim the worst next day, if i will live through the night.

I'm completely behind this. That's a wagon that's never been able to take off.

Yes. I still say i wont vote.

...

...why exactly again?

I prefer diff target, imo cSF and dave are not scummy enough to flip today.

If you had to peg the rest of scum, who would you list? You're obviously not counting yourself, so without those two you're diving deep into the realm of people I TR.

[shaddowez]

Is he more likely goon than VT after claiming PR day 1 though

Could be scum needing to backtrack

After JV claiming JoaT and lying as Town, someone soft claiming in early game is definitely not a strong reason for me to vote someone right now.

[shaddowez]

There is a little catch though. We dont know if Psyche shot went through.

Our two town RBs both said they targeted somebody not Psyche N1. Do you think one of them is lying, or do you think that there's another RB PR out there?

[shaddowez]

Back from V/LA - tried keeping up, but definitely didn't catch everything. I will address the things I noticed regarding me, since those don't require a deep dive:

Lurking

- If you look at my ISO, 99% of my posts are between 0800-1700 M-F. This is a game, which I play while I'm at my computer, and take the rest of the time with my family. If I happen to have down time maybe I'll hop on, but generally I don't even get on a computer outside of that time. I made a comment early on that it seems I'm posting opposite hours of much of the game, but when I'm here I do try to engage with anyone else posting at the same time. If that's lurking, then I guess I'm a lurker.

Wagons

- D1: I was never a fan of the IAVH wagon, and felt like he was being pushed for not much content on D1. The last several votes all happened over the weekend (see my

Lurking

section).
D2: I unvoted earlier on that (Real) day in 3964, then all

three

votes to lim Psyche happened that evening (again, after I'm off a computer).
D3: Gonna be honest, I don't remember much about this day. I know I was voting StD and reconsidered, but can't say much more about it without re-reading.
D4: CSF was not in my townlist, and based on how I read her I was willing to vote there. I'm also going to share this:

...what the fuck? JV has some 'splaining to do post game.

Alright, our pool is getting pretty small. Snivy, dave, and CSF have all had failed attempted wagons on them (I may be missing someone too). The people I'm not currently willing to entertain at all right now are RN, TL, or pisskop.

Which brings me to my next point, my unlim pool has not changed from that: pisskop, TL, and RN.

I feel like I'm missing something, but will get to it as I go through stuff again.

[shaddowez]

I know VCA isn't the end-all/be-all, especially self, but I still feel that questioning my placement on wagons warrants this:

Scenarios

• I'm
  scum
  : I know that none of the 4 lims so far have been my teammates, so limming any of them works towards my win condition. Instead, I stay off all but one of them, which happens to be
  scum
  
  
• I'm
  scum
  . I know that none of the first 3 lims have been my teammates, but the last one is. So, I don't vote any of those that work towards my win condition, but do bus late into the game.
  
• I'm
  town
  . I don't know what alignment any of the wagons are, so vote where I feel scum is.

I can't make the decision for everyone else, but to me the only one that points to me playing to my wincon is the third scenario.

[shaddowez]

Town

Random Nurse,

Klazam

,

Flavor Leaf

, the worst
Naerys,

Psyche

, gob

Shrek

,

Save the Dragons

, shaddowez, BBmolla,

Doctor Drew

iamveryhappy

, camelCasedSnivy, davesaz, DragonEater70

bob3141

, TemporalLich, pisskop

biancospino

-- idk/null tier

furtiveglance

,

Hu Tao

,

JacksonVirgo

, Enchant

ZZZX

,

Aisa

Merlyn

Scum

I'm all caught up, AMA

It's nice to see someone else who's finding Klazam just like, very towny. Also dig the hard townread on RN.

Actually I like this list a bunch

What makes you like Naerys & shaddowez? & do you have like, a specific reason to scumread furtive?

Which part of this list do you actually like? Prior to this you said snivy was towny (listed as null here) and want to wagon me (listed as slight town here). You also aren't thrilled with either the IAVH or Hu potential wagons, listed as null and scum here. I'm sure there's more, but we'll start with that

Bringing this post back up....for posterity

It's been a while. Feel like I need to bring this back up, cleaned up (and scum/town notated) some.

[shaddowez]

Back from V/LA - tried keeping up, but definitely didn't catch everything. I will address the things I noticed regarding me, since those don't require a deep dive:

Lurking

- If you look at my ISO, 99% of my posts are between 0800-1700 M-F. This is a game, which I play while I'm at my computer, and take the rest of the time with my family. If I happen to have down time maybe I'll hop on, but generally I don't even get on a computer outside of that time. I made a comment early on that it seems I'm posting opposite hours of much of the game, but when I'm here I do try to engage with anyone else posting at the same time. If that's lurking, then I guess I'm a lurker.

Wagons

- D1: I was never a fan of the IAVH wagon, and felt like he was being pushed for not much content on D1. The last several votes all happened over the weekend (see my

Lurking

section).
D2: I unvoted earlier on that (Real) day in 3964, then all

three

votes to lim Psyche happened that evening (again, after I'm off a computer).
D3: Gonna be honest, I don't remember much about this day. I know I was voting StD and reconsidered, but can't say much more about it without re-reading.
D4: CSF was not in my townlist, and based on how I read her I was willing to vote there. I'm also going to share this:

...what the fuck? JV has some 'splaining to do post game.

Alright, our pool is getting pretty small. Snivy, dave, and CSF have all had failed attempted wagons on them (I may be missing someone too). The people I'm not currently willing to entertain at all right now are RN, TL, or pisskop.

Which brings me to my next point, my unlim pool has not changed from that: pisskop, TL, and RN.

I feel like I'm missing something, but will get to it as I go through stuff again.

That helps.

I just want to get the feeling you're actually TRYING to solve the game.

Currently I DON'T have that feeling from you.

That's fair. I'll also admit, I've been somewhat tunneled on Snivy/the worst for a good part of the game.

[shaddowez]

Speaking of

not even sure shaddowez' issue is lurking? his reads are just really underdeveloped for this stage of the game

I find this highly ironic from somebody that has ~90% naked votes, and I'm hard pressed to find any sort of argument for why any of the votes exist at all.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: gob

Outside of 6730, can you point to some reasons for this vote? You don't really seem to be pushing a strong case considering you're the only one on the wagon, and I don't see much in the way of reasons. 5302 makes it feel like a policy lim (voting since he's not a TR, vs voting because he's a SR), and I'm not sure that's wise at this point in the game.

[shaddowez]

Are you done with V/LA and would you consider voting davesaz today or no?

Yes and still reviewing, but not against it atm. Also seriously looking at Enchant - knowing the flips now, reviewing ZZZX's posts from D1 look a whole lot different.

[shaddowez]

Town

Random Nurse,

Klazam

,

Flavor Leaf

, the worst
Naerys,

Psyche

, gob

Shrek

,

Save the Dragons

, shaddowez,

BBmolla

,

Doctor Drew

iamveryhappy

, camelCasedSnivy, davesaz, DragonEater70

bob3141

, TemporalLich, pisskop

biancospino

-- idk/null tier

furtiveglance

,

Hu Tao

,

JacksonVirgo

, Enchant

ZZZX

,

Aisa

Merlyn

Scum

I'm all caught up, AMA

It's been a while. Feel like I need to bring this back up, cleaned up (and scum/town notated) some.

I missed BBmolla in the previous version. My guess is CSF has a buddy in each of the two middle tiers.

iamveryhappy (12 [HAMMERED]): Cat Scratch Fever, TemporalLich, Enchant, furtiveglance, Save The Dragons, Aisa, BBmolla, davesaz, Flavor Leaf, camelCasedSnivy, Doctor Drew, Naerys

Psyche (11 [ELIMINATED]): Random Nurse, pisskop, JacksonVirgo, furtiveglance, Naerys, TemporalLich, bob3141, davesaz, Hu Tao, camelCasedSnivy, Save The Dragons

BBmolla (6 [E-2]): Naerys, TemporalLich, pisskop, davesaz, BBmolla, camelCasedSnivy

Interestingly, the only 3 wagons Naerys and dave have been on together (at least during VCs) were the three listed above. There's also a strong SR of dave from Naerys D1 but she never votes him, then she flip flops to TR, then goes back to a SR where she finally votes, and then unvotes him.

Definitely willing to vote either of those slots today.

[shaddowez]

Enchant + bbmolla

I don't think this is possible.

viewtopic.php?p=13948688#p13948688

[shaddowez]

That's a very....strange.....list of people to ask about your scumteams also - you're asking the 4 people you're listing if they think they're scum and then me and pisskop, while completely ignoring at least 3 other players....why those specific ats?

[shaddowez]

This makes me feel dirty, because it means I've been wrong about Snivy and worst all game - assuming Naerys/Dave, is it possible the other team is gob/Enchant? I have a meeting in 10, but will look into those potential associations when I come back.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: dave

Was waiting for the VC since I wasn't going to do the math from the 15 pages I missed.

Also feel like gob's reaction to his own mess up were towny, back to being able to feel good about myself figuring that at least one of {snivy, worst} are scum.

[shaddowez]

MOD NOTES: shaddowez is V/LA

@Mod - I'm off V/LA - thanks!

[shaddowez]

Did the worst ever answer this?

I don't believe so.

[shaddowez]

Current lim pool, not in any sort of preferential order: {dave, Naerys, Enchant, worst, Snivy}

[shaddowez]

gob listing a flipped townie as scum feels like an actual oversight and gob is trying to solve the game

Feels like a weak defence. After 3 irl days you should remember night kills and their flips rather well.

Are you trying to imply something here?

[shaddowez]

I'm hoping that was a derphammer, otherwise I'm pretty sure we lost (unless we're lucky enough to have a double crosskill)

[shaddowez]

Yeah, unless we've been

SUPER

lucky and they've managed to miss all of our other PRs, 4/4/15 seems OP compared to our setup. But, that's why I don't do custom setups, I could be wrong on that.

[shaddowez]

Can i lament once more upon the Psyche eli?

If by this you mean ask again wtf JV lied about the FV claim against him, then absolutely

[shaddowez]

Also VT.

Worst can go next.

I have a PT appointment in the morning, so won't be back on until late morning

[shaddowez]

Meetings suck, that's all I have to say on that.

As for pressure on me, you're not going to get anything different. I'm going to continue to play the way I play, and vote where I think scum is likely to be. I've already stated that I'm usually a late-game mislim. I don't want to lose because of it, but my drive isn't to convince you I'm town. My goal is to figure out who I think is scum, and lim them so that we win.

[shaddowez]

Stop creating doubts Nurse or i will start to think u might scum

So, this post triggered something for me. I'm going to prepend this with if pisskop's scum, we lost, because this train of thought involves him being town.

This whole game centers on doubt - why didn't <x> get killed at night? In general if a person is scummy, or not strongly TR at least, it's easier to push a mislim. On the other hand, strong townreads that actually are town are usually NKs, because that's the only way scum can get rid of them. In this game, we had JV, furtive, and FL already who were pretty universally TR and all NKs. Of the remaining players, pisskop and RN are the only two that are strongly being TR. RN made a BP claim early on, giving himself a pretty strong defense of why he'll never be NKed. pisskop has claimed VT, which if true means he has no defense. The only reason for him to be left alive is to spread that doubt of "If he's so strongly TR, why wasn't he NKed?", leading to reasoning for a lim in limlo (elo?).

What am I trying to say? I agree with Naerys that RN does seem to be trying to spread doubt now, and with the out he gave himself early on has a strong defense of himself being alive vs anyone else at end game.

Someone who's better at setup spec can also chime in, but with the PRs that have flipped already, and the fact there are 4 mafia with 0 PRs flipped, an unlimited BP seems a bit OP.

VOTE: Random Nurse

[shaddowez]

is it possible the other team is gob/Enchant?

I ended up backtracking on this a bit since I liked gob's response, but this is back as a possibility.

[shaddowez]

Something else interesting I just noticed from pisskops VCA - davesaz voted RN a couple of times, but the opposite never happened.

[shaddowez]

lol I just noticed how I never voted dave.

True, you and RN have a similar vote placement. Honestly I was looking purely at RN's placements.

I think the final 2 maf are in [enchant, random, snivy]

I agree.

[shaddowez]

We'd be a 4/2/2, so we could technically still win. A mislim would hurt us greatly though, and would need at least 1 crosskill to have any possiblity (may need both, haven't mathed out that far)

[shaddowez]

I agree.

You didn't read my edit

[shaddowez]

Fair.

Why are you anti-scum!Enchant?

[shaddowez]

A VC would be nice, but I'm very inclined to believe that anyone not currently on my wagon already is likely town. Assuming a 3p mafia team, if I'm scum none of them could be my buddy, which means that the opposing team would be able to elim a faction at this point.

Since I'm town, a lim would still make sense for either scum team to hammer, since there's a good chance scum wins with a mislim.

[shaddowez]

Unless I'm miscounting, in which case that could still apply, but a little less likely.

[shaddowez]

I miscounted, haven't had enough coffee yet. I still think both scum are on my wagon already, but that's more gut and less number crunching

[shaddowez]

can they joint win?

I would assume not, that's a good question though

[shaddowez]

reading Klazam and dave iso i dont believe Snivy nor RN are red scum

Curious, what about their ISO makes you think this?

[shaddowez]

reading Klazam and dave iso i dont believe Snivy nor RN are red scum

Curious, what about their ISO makes you think this?

Even better question, not thinking they're red scum doesn't mean you don't think they're scum at all. Since there's still (likely) two parties in play, why are you focusing on which team they may/may not be rather than whether or not they're scum at all?

[shaddowez]

They interacted with them without any hesitation. While you were mentioned only few times, which is curious.

I'd be careful with those stones you're throwing. You're not currently in my top SR, but your reasoning is becoming pretty thin

[shaddowez]

I know this is bad timing, but keep in mind it is end of Friday for me here. My one son has a soccer game tomorrow, and the other has a dance performance, then we have a cub scout hike and family photos on Sunday. Going into my standard weekend V/LA, and will likely not be on much if at all until Monday morning.

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- Weekend V/LA until Monday.

[shaddowez]

Had a lot more RL stuff going on this morning that I forgot about/didn't expect, so I'm just getting back to this now.

I have enough people tunneling me that I don't expect this to matter for today, but once I flip at least people will know where my views were if I get limmed before getting all my thoughts out:

VOTE: Snivy

This close to endgame, especially with the conditions T3 put out, town should want all the time they can get. It's not like I'm not going to be a valid lim target at the end of the day if I haven't managed to convince the rest of the town I'm not scum. There's more, but it doesn't make sense in this post.

After I flip, please imagine me pointing out this post and laughing as well, since I won't be here to do it.

I almost always get mislimmed super early because I get SR hard, or get the "pseudo-scum" read and make it to late game because scum feels I'm an easy target

[shaddowez]

Related to the above post, I'm not surprised I'm getting wagoned. What is surprising is the people hopping on and just accepting the super weak cases that are being presented. For example, worst is using the fact that I have "weak reads". I play and solve my own way, and haven't provided many reads at all this game except for when I've voted people. To say I have weak reads would be fair if I had reads to base that off of, but I'm not sure how reads I haven't actually given can be weak.

Similarly, Naerys accused my vote on RN to be opportunistic. Most of the game he's been TR, and there were no votes on him at the time I voted. There's little to no chance of him actually getting limmed, so I'm not sure how it was opportunistic. She could have called it an OMGUS (it wasn't, I put reasons in my post where I voted him), but at least it would have been a sensical argument, whereas opportunistic isn't.

[shaddowez]

This is still a huge list, but my based on vote placements I'ma bet scum lies in here:

bob3141

,

davesaz

, camelCasedSnivy,

Save the Dragons

,

Cat Scratch Fever

,

Aisa

,

BBMolla

, the worst

Looking back at this, I don't think Snivy and worst are both scum anymore, but definitely think at least one (*cough*Snivy*cough*) is.

[shaddowez]

I'm trying to come up with a case for Snivy outside of what I've already done. You can easily read my ISO and search "camel" for most of it, or I can collect it and repost it here. There's just....nothing notworthy that's been done. If someone can give any inkling (outside of possibly VCA) of why they're being TR, I'd really appreciate that.

[shaddowez]

Town

Random Nurse,

Klazam

,

Flavor Leaf

, the worst
Naerys,

Psyche

,

gob

,

Save the Dragons

, shaddowez,

BBmolla

,

Doctor Drew

iamveryhappy

, camelCasedSnivy,

davesaz

, DragonEater70,

TemporalLich

, pisskop -- idk/null tier

furtiveglance

,

Hu Tao

,

JacksonVirgo

, Enchant,

Aisa

Scum

I'm all caught up, AMA

Coming back to this also, this was one of CSF's earliest posts. She knew who her partners were at, and didn't really care about the rest. This is a complete shot in the dark, but I don't imagine that she would've put both partners in the same tier (and I'm not saying that just to save my own skin, I could still be red in this case). My guess is they'd be in the other "idk/null" tier, which somehow comes back to a commonality of Snivy being there.

[shaddowez]

She knew who her partners were at the time

Amended part of my sentence to actually make sense

[shaddowez]

I will say, if there's enough belief that I'm scum, it makes more sense to lim me today than tomorrow though:

If I'm scum: 6/1/1

Today:

Mislim (not me), no x-kills: 3/1/1 .

Tomorrow:

Lim scum!me, 1 kill, 2/1 (Kingmaker)

Today:

Lim scum!me, 1 kill, 4/1, get an extra day.

If I'm town: 6/1/1

Today:

Mislim (not me), no x-kills: 3/1/1.

Tomorrow:

mislim town!me, 2 kills, scum win (unless they miraculously both x-kill).

Today:

Mislim (town!me), no x-kills: 3/1/1.

Tomorrow:

Hope you get scum, or in the same boat as above.

In a worst case scenario, If I'm town, a mislim on me tomorrow instead of today loses the game. If I'm scum, you get at least one more day but it's a better chance if you lim me today. Either way, if you're determined that I'm

a

lim, make it today so that we still have a chance.

[shaddowez]

I

think

I did all that math right, anyone is welcome to correct me on that though

[shaddowez]

I'd argue

8-6-5 best case

[shaddowez]

Yeah. I was only doing worst case because I didn't feel like mathing out every single scenario

[shaddowez]

RN with his way of playing is a limbait. Many ppl would be fine with him as a lim, atleast thats the conclusion i get. He is certainly much more easier target to go after than Dragon, for example.

I feel if I was trying to push for an easy wagon you would've been an easier pivot, tbh.

[shaddowez]

Granted, me saying what I would probably do doesn't really hold much water

[shaddowez]

Welp, that doesn't preclude you from doing it to dave if you're blue then (which is where I'm actually leaning, based on voting interactions with CSF)

[shaddowez]

Ugh, missed p-edits. That was aimed at

i don't think i would usually go all out on doing that to a scum partner, maybe i would do it to a townie as scum

[shaddowez]

Like, all the "I would only do x against town" arguments this game are ridiculous considering it's multi-ball, and other scum are basically town to the opposing team

[shaddowez]

I've been potentially reading both Snivy and Enchant as blue scum, which can't be the case. Looking at associations (my reads were based off Enchant/gob and Snivy/CSF), the latter seems the more likely to me.

[shaddowez]

camelCasedSnivy (3): shaddowez, Enchant, pisskop

I'm not sure why shaddow is voting me but I'm just going to ignore it because I'm already voting shaddow

I'm also not sure why enchant is voting me and I just assumed it was some pressure thing, and pisskops reasoning is pretty bad as well

It's awesome that at this point in the game you're a) pretty much admitting you're not actually even trying to read the game, and b) instead of trying to do anything to help town, just trying to discredit everyone on your wagon

[shaddowez]

we should organise a labyrinth movie night post-game

Alright, I kind of have to TR you now.

On a more serious note, to answer what reads have changed for me: I no longer strongly SR you. I'd still say you're in my PoE, but that's because my only strong TR right now is pisskop.

My theories for scum are:

{snivy, enchant}

{Nurse, Naerys}

You and dragon both seem to be towny at this point, but still rereading when I get chances.