Open 883 - Swinger's Hall

[Klick]

These are some very fun swings we have found, y'all, but how are we meant to dance on them safely

VOTE: Aristeia

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

OMGUS scummy af

[Klick]

It's a preemptive offensive play when one wasn't really needed

[Klick]

It's a preemptive offensive play when one wasn't really needed

so you think I am preempting you on page one of RVS when I don't need to because?

like why does scum!me need to pre-empt you again? Do you think scum!me would fear town!you ? why?

This is surprisingly defensive for page one of RVS

[Klick]

what is a preemptive offensive play

and why is it not really needed

What do the two of you think I might mean by what I said

[Klick]

I guess the answer is 'I didn't try to consider what you might have meant' then?

[Klick]

It's a preemptive offensive play when one wasn't really needed

the point of the question is not that i didn’t understand what you might’ve meant

The point of the question is to gauge whether this is a real actual thought or not

because like i question whether this is a real actual thought when

1. Ausuka already engaged in a “preemptive offensive play”
2. you dressed up your thought in thesaurus words for an undetermined reason

What real actual thoughts are you looking for on page one of RVS

[Klick]

do you not have actual thoughts Klick

Here's an actual thought
You and I seem to actively clash playstyles consistently, at least early on

[Klick]

I don’t think it’s even scummy if it was not a real thought but you being so defensive and obfuscatey makes it seem like you are guilty!

I'm not convinced you think this actually correlates with my alignment over just not liking that I'm not answering your questions the way you'd like me to

[Klick]

i think dann is towm

This is the first read I posted in PT with RH9 lol

[Klick]

The reaction Ari's had to my posting has specifically not felt towny or scummy to me

But on a more meta level, I feel like that result is slightly scum-indicative

I have no towny feelings from Ari at this moment

[Klick]

i haven't played with you extensively so it could also just be a playstyle thing too

but it is frustrating to me because it's hard to get a picture of where your head is at

It is a playstyle thing

I'm not going to respond very clearly to immediate poking and prodding on thoughts that aren't really even fully formed in my own mind
But my thoughts will wind up being clear at the level you're wanting with some time and space

[Klick]

As a more general trend, I'd expect to be seeing less null content from town!Ari in this exchange and more content that I leaned one way on over another

This is a slight lean and more in inference territory and so I'm not hardcore defending it and am also not hugely interested in spending the next page discussing it in depth

[Klick]

do you not have actual thoughts Klick

Here's an actual thought
You and I seem to actively clash playstyles consistently, at least early on

I don't think this comment actually makes sense if Klick thinks I'm mafia trying to misyeet him - it only makes sense if he thinks I'm town and he's trying to get me to back off.

I don't even think it's accurate because I remember I've worked together fairly well with Klick at least early in the game as our last two games together were;

viewtopic.php?t=90508

and

viewtopic.php?t=90425


We were Town/Town in both and I don't remember having any playstyle clashes with him early in the game so it's kind of a ?? defense to me.

You literally spent most of the second half of Hollow Knight tunneling me
And I'm not rereading the Micro atm but I'm pretty sure we were both on each other early

[Klick]

VOTE: rh9

He's like 90% town

[Klick]

Ari immediately slapping the meta button and being like omg why would Cakez do this doesn't make me want to move my vote

Like Ari herself pointed out that when I pushed her recently it backfired terribly. Why would I immediately repeat the same mistake as scum? But she called me agendaed for it.

I dunno but you've seen me interrogate people who push me so its weird to me you think its unnatural for me to do it to Klick.

Klicks posts didn't even read as a push to me, it looked like page 1 rvs bs. That's why it feels so odd.

Ding ding

[Klick]

I have no towny feelings from Ari at this moment

also this happens to be the exact same excuse he used to push me last time he was mafia on d1

"i feel ari has done nothing townie"

which is kind of a bullshit read when you cant come up with anything to push someone on

Why does Klick!scum feel the need to come up with a bullshit read to push someone on on page three

[Klick]

Klick's 217 is bleh. Saying that someone's solving comes from "them trying to figure the game out" is a textbook early-scumhunting sentence that doesn't really inspire confidence I guess. Maybe it's because I can kind of see what Norwee is saying about her recently. Level zero.

When I say 'trying to figure the game out', I'm not just saying Una is doing basic solving motions
Una is posting thoughts and I genuinely believe she believes what she's saying
Post 68 specifically feels like genuine thoughts about the game as opposed to her trying to persuade me that she's town or that Gamma is scum

Klick, why are you voting Ari?

She's done nothing to make me townread her

its basically word for word the same nonsense reasoning he used last time to push me as scum.

I was doing a pretty good job emulating parts of my town play there

The big difference there was I cared a lot more about how my message was received

[Klick]

Also Ari town, this doesn't feel like the scum!Ari I've played with before

I think I agree
UNVOTE:

[Klick]

Also Ari town, this doesn't feel like the scum!Ari I've played with before

Counterpoint, doesn't feel like the townAri I have played with before.

Maybe Ari has a good range I don't like it when people are good at mafia

I don't think her range is that strong

[Klick]

Aristeia I went into this thinking you weren't that interested in understanding my thought process and were more interested in pushing something you didn't immediately understand

I think you're town but your recent posting reaffirms that for me

Which is why I'm not really engaging with your main point

[Klick]

Ydrasse - Ausuka
Meuh - Alisae
yessiree - Doctor Drew
Aristeia - Infinity 324
SirCakez - Dannflor
RH9 - Klick

TOWN
Ari
Cakez
RH9

PROBABLY TOWN
Dannflor

POE
Ydrasse
Ausuka
Meuh
Alisae
yessiree
Doctor Drew
Infinity 324

[Klick]

Aristeia I went into this thinking you weren't that interested in understanding my thought process and were more interested in pushing something you didn't immediately understand

I think you're town but your recent posting reaffirms that for me

Which is why I'm not really engaging with your main point

I asked you why you thought I was scummy af

you spent an entire day coming up with answers and now you claim it was because you were just joking

You spent and are continuing to spend this entire day suicide tunnelling a slot that you have openly stated you just don't have the patience for

[Klick]

i have at least 1 mafia if I group you ari rh9 and cakez together

I literally have these as 4 town
Can you go more into your reasoning for this

[Klick]

Fair enough

I think Ari cares about her tunnel way more than she would as scum
Cakez feels a lot more confident and free-flowing than I remember seeing him as scum
RH9 is actively not trying to persuade me that he is town in PT

PEdit I'll read that

[Klick]

I'll give Cakez more time to cook before ruling him out you've probably got a better pulse on him than I do

[Klick]

If you're scum you're currently playing town mindset pretty well

Going to work, see y'all later

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Klick]

I think we should get actual good opinions and then talk about getting two eliminations instead of one
I think the swinger mechanic played naturally will give us more information early than controlling it by majority

[Klick]

Ydrasse your memory is probably accurate but is missing the context of me losing faith in the process of explaining my half-baked thoughts actually being effective at anything helpful

[Klick]

That might be true for you but I feel like I'd just get a bunch of question marks and votes from enough people in the game to make it not worth

[Klick]

Particularly when they aren't thoughts I actually care a lot about at this stage of the game

If you want those thoughts see 190

[Klick]

i have a tendency to think that people when they’re mafia wouldn’t do things that i think are bad or poor play like getting really flustered or giving weird answers to things that could be easily avoided but it’s often too much leeway and it backfires

This works in moderation, consider it one data point in a pool of stuff that will happen

I like Mafia as an exercise in understanding people

[Klick]

That might be true for you but I feel like I'd just get a bunch of question marks and votes from enough people in the game to make it not worth

okay but there’s already a vocal portion of the game (maybe not majority but it feels like it to me) who want to kill you anyways so why not go for it?

It's too early to actually strongly feel that I'm scum instead of just being confused/annoyed

at what stage of the game do the reads become more like “real”?

Depends on the read really

The Micro Ari linked became real on like Page 3

A good judge of when I've become more serious personally is when I start posting more general reads/read lists/etc

[Klick]

Why do you think Ari's plan is good in reference to your reads on myself, Ari, and the rest of the game

[Klick]

RH9 is actively not trying to persuade me that he is town in PT

The only two significant things I've gotten from RH9 in PT are a post mentioning that Dann is towny, and a post significantly later saying he... was all caught up with the thread. Nothing further in terms of reads or anything, just stating that he had read everything.

I found it very towny that he felt comfortable posting that he was caught up without any actual content to follow it up. I don't feel any intent to persuade or manipulate or convince that he's town.

[Klick]

I'll openly make extra clear that I am very against Ari and I pairing and suiciding because I think Ari is town

[Klick]

This format is actually really annoying

I don't think we're actually going to get two players that a majority of players are satisfied with eliminating simultaneously and is also decently accurate. It's hard enough getting one accurate elimination

[Klick]

i think this is retaliatory

I think it's super towny

I have incorrectly read Infinity as super towny for things that seemed very genuine in the past though so I guess I should be slightly cautious

[Klick]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Klick]

If you're scum you're currently playing town mindset pretty well

Going to work, see y'all later

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I kinda feel like drew has to be a wolf here lmao so I vibe w/ this ig?

Yeah Drew as scum makes sense here

This isn't even worthy of the yellow m&m.

I think history has proven neither of you know my scum game lol.

But I am not exactly town reading yessiree, so have at it.

I still agree with Ari's plan though.

I think it's questionable that there are several players who 'agree with Ari's plan' without any actual opinions

I also think it's questionable that apparently what people wanted from me earlier was evidence of actual thought (on page three) and those people are now not saying anything about the people who 'agree with Ari's plan' without any actual opinions

[Klick]

Ydrasse your memory is probably accurate but is missing the context of me losing faith in the process of explaining my half-baked thoughts actually being effective at anything helpful

i mean i would find them helpful even if they were raw if you’re town

That might be true for you but I feel like I'd just get a bunch of question marks and votes from enough people in the game to make it not worth

i fail to see how this is coming from a town mindset?
you make assumptions about how you're going to be perceived by others, so you don't even try?
seems like you overextended, realized no one was biting on it, realized the heat was coming to you, so you cut offany further discussion before you dug yourself an even bigger hole. are you actually scum bro?

And yet your own assumptions about how town would have to play are clear in this post

[Klick]

the difference being im using mine to try to discern alignment of another player, but u were using yours to guess how you are going to be perceived by others, this distinction is significant and imo alignment indicative in ur case

Town can and should also care how they are perceived by others

Whether or not I care how I am perceived by others when I am town is something that is easy to verify

Or if you don't want to do the work there are people in this game that already have that knowledge

[Klick]

feels like you're turning this into a trust tell because

you're saying you never do this as scum

so it's wrong of me to read you this way

Where in the world have I said this

[Klick]

boring game honestly

[Klick]

I don't agree to the repairing plan because I think Ydrasse-Ausuka and yessiree-Drew are both solid pairs to elim already

[Klick]

Dude technology is ruining the entire world's minds.

But I need to come post in my Mafia game

[Klick]

why ausuka

I want to respond to this with 'why not ausuka' but that's me feeling grumpy talking and you don't actually deserve that response

Equally I just... don't really feel that Ausuka is towny at all. I'll give her a reread now but like I remember a few of her posts feeling decidedly milquetoast. I'll see if I can find what made me feel that way

[Klick]

I actually quite like Ausuka's Ali suspicion from an 'Ausuka could be town for this' perspective

[Klick]

On Ali I don't really feel strongly one way or the other atm
Content feels about right for where Ali's focus would be as town but nothing is that stand-out either

[Klick]

I want more content from Drew, I feel like Drew is frozen out of the game atm.

[Klick]

VOTE: aristeia
her posting doesn't feel natural

Ari immediately slapping the meta button and being like omg why would Cakez do this doesn't make me want to move my vote

It's a preemptive offensive play when one wasn't really needed

so you think I am preempting you on page one of RVS when I don't need to because?

like why does scum!me need to pre-empt you again? Do you think scum!me would fear town!you ? why?

These were the initial posts that pinged me, but I decided to hold back for a bit (which Dann can verify)
These just don't seem like a natural way to react on literally page one. I know Ari is defensive but these posts just read like they are trying to start something that doesn't exist.

I quite like these posts from Cakez

I try to put myself in scum!Cakez's shoes and think that Cakez isn't particularly worried about coming off as unnatural himself

I think he's speaking from a perspective of genuinely considering the best place for his vote for legitimate reasons

I think either Cakez is scum specifically and blatantly trying to portray that kind of consideration with confidence, or else Cakez is just town

[Klick]

Ari immediately slapping the meta button and being like omg why would Cakez do this doesn't make me want to move my vote

Like Ari herself pointed out that when I pushed her recently it backfired terribly. Why would I immediately repeat the same mistake as scum? But she called me agendaed for it.

Like Ari herself pointed out that when I pushed her recently it backfired terribly. Why would I immediately repeat the same mistake as scum? But she called me agendaed for it.

like are you actually making the case "hey i did this thing of shitpushing Ari as scum" and she absolutely murdered me for it.

thus i would not do it again because it ended so badly!

Also ari who has already experienced being shitpushed by me as scum on D1 has no reason to suspect I would do the same move again because it failed last time.

Like that's some pretty hideous logic.

if I know you have the capability of making a shitpush d1 as scum on me, you doing it again is the first thing I suspect because you've shown a capacity and preference for it in the past.

This doesn't make any sense. I'm not great at mafia but I'm not bad enough to the point where I'm going to repeat a tactic that failed like two months ago. Do you really think I came in here as scum with a game plan to immediately stir shit with you? What kind of plan would that be? What would my goal even be? We both know that I'm not going to be able to get anywhere close to elimming you by myself

I don't even have a take on Klicks push itself honestly, it seems pretty mid to me and it's not a factor in my read on Ari

The main vibe I get from Cakez is 'confident' and that's not really the impression I have of his scum play and I can buy it as town

[Klick]

UNVOTE:
Whatever
I'm in a fucking terrible mood today

I'll come back when I'm not feeling like shit I don't want to take it out on y'all

I also think this is just true and matches with Cakez's energy in thread coming from town

[Klick]

do you scumread ydra?

I guess a bit, in the sense that I'm not really convinced she's town by any of her content
She seems to be forming opinions and then posting about them after they're formed which I always struggle to see as towny

[Klick]

I want more content from Drew, I feel like Drew is frozen out of the game atm.

Rvs moved quick and then everyone was on you, didn't vibe with me....and ya, the game ain't vibing with me so far.

So, do you scum read me or yess(or both)?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a red flip from either of you

[Klick]

I want more content from Drew, I feel like Drew is frozen out of the game atm.

Rvs moved quick and then everyone was on you, didn't vibe with me....and ya, the game ain't vibing with me so far.

So, do you scum read me or yess(or both)?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a red flip from either of you

So you were able to ascertain I am scum despite me being 'frozen out of the game'?

I think you're decently likely to be scum yeah and feeling like you're frozen is part of that

I also feel like you're reacting really defensively to me expressing a bit of suspicion around your slot, when you agree that you've been a bit disconnected

Like, surely it makes some sense to you that I have reservations around your slot?

[Klick]

Or maybe 'defensively' is the wrong word
It's like I've pushed a button and you want to press some sort of counterattack when I've essentially said you *could* be scum pretty easily

[Klick]

speaking of tone reads

I kind of town read the indignant tone in Cakez' posting

it's not a great read and probably a better avenue is to see how often he makes that kind of frustrated rage quit post as either alignment but that's the fuzzy feels i'm getting right now

This is pretty similar to what I said about Cakez earlier yeah

[Klick]

I align pretty heavily with Dann atm

[Klick]

Right but you don't have a very strong basis upon which to rest that read

[Klick]

Anyway when I said 'I align with Dann' I didn't mean that I think we share an alignment (though that's also where I'm at atm)
I meant that I find myself in a very similar headspace

He seems to have an accurate read on my actions as well

[Klick]

but maybe she rolled a really hype scum team that would suck

this is so lamisty

do you have any scumreads dann

334 feels like Drew trying to catch Klick out on a perceived logical inconsistency in his read progression

I find this type of focus on logical inconsistencies and logical reads in particular to come from scum a lot more often than town. It's just much more natural for scum to latch onto than any other kind of read (like tone)

there is a possibility that drew is town and having enormous difficulty getting into the game, and that by scum reading this post I am just freezing him out even more

but i think the simpler answer trends towards drew just being scum

kind of hate how hedgy this is tbh

I don't read either of these posts this way

You see LAMISTy, I see feelings

You see hedgy, I see nuance

[Klick]

dann keeps posting surface level town things that I don't get town vibes from and I want to scumread that

I am not reading his current stuff as surface level but that could be because it is very close to what I'm already thinking

[Klick]

Anyway when I said 'I align with Dann' I didn't mean that I think we share an alignment (though that's also where I'm at atm)
I meant that I find myself in a very similar headspace

He seems to have an accurate read on my actions as well

Dann's been trying to kill you for the last two days and he only switched direction after the momentum died down and the thread direction changed

He switched direction after he (accurately) saw a shift in my own posting that felt genuine to him

I've gotten into a groove tonight and he's picked up on it and felt it was towny

It was a response to a change in the thread

[Klick]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

[Klick]

Anyway when I said 'I align with Dann' I didn't mean that I think we share an alignment (though that's also where I'm at atm)
I meant that I find myself in a very similar headspace

He seems to have an accurate read on my actions as well

Dann's been trying to kill you for the last two days and he only switched direction after the momentum died down and the thread direction changed

He switched direction after he (accurately) saw a shift in my own posting that felt genuine to him

I've gotten into a groove tonight and he's picked up on it and felt it was towny

It was a response to a change in the thread

you're not that townie

Not to you
I could never

[Klick]

Ydrasse - Ausuka
Meuh - Alisae
yessiree - Doctor Drew
Aristeia - Infinity 324
SirCakez - Dannflor
RH9 - Klick

TOWN
Ari
Dann
RH9

TOWN-ISH
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Meuh

???
Ausuka

POE
Ydrasse
Alisae
yessiree
Doctor Drew

[Klick]

Anyway when I said 'I align with Dann' I didn't mean that I think we share an alignment (though that's also where I'm at atm)
I meant that I find myself in a very similar headspace

He seems to have an accurate read on my actions as well

Dann's been trying to kill you for the last two days and he only switched direction after the momentum died down and the thread direction changed

He switched direction after he (accurately) saw a shift in my own posting that felt genuine to him

I've gotten into a groove tonight and he's picked up on it and felt it was towny

It was a response to a change in the thread

you're not that townie

Not to you
I could never

I don't think it's a me problem

I maintain what I said previously that we have a playstyle clash

I think the way I naturally play leads you to be naturally skeptical of me

[Klick]

VOTE: Doctor Drew/yessiree

Gnight all

[Klick]

I also have trouble believing Dann actually thinks you E-1'd click when the VC is in the previous post

So you'd sooner think he faked thinking it was E-1 when the VC is in the previous post

You also think Drew 'can't count' instead of faking putting me at E-1

I think you form suspicions based on other subconscious things that bother you and then justify them using what you write in your posts

[Klick]

Like when Drew said it was E-1 I also just took him at face value until I saw Ari's post

[Klick]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

How relaxed was I in Boons Ahoy? I assume this is the meta you were referring to.......or Fire and Fire, was scumDrew relaxed there?

You literally are talking out of your ass and speaking factually incorrect. The irony being here is that I am not relaxed anymore lol.....Klick tried to use meta to say I was town in Boons Ahoy, ironically helping me and the scum team win. I find it hard to believe that they would use meta to make a scum case for me KNOWING that they were wrong about it before......or at least offering the caveat that they were were wrong once before(I think that is the key before, if I am wrong about someone once I will admit that I have been wrong when giving a read such as klick did).

Bottom line, and say all 'OMGUS'.......klick is telling the story that they want to tell, not the actual story that is legit.

VOTE: Klick/RH

I believe that is E-1 if I can count lol

The meta I used in Boons Ahoy was correct, I had a misread in that particular game but my analysis matched your behaviour

I dont think you're actually thinking about my alignment beyond 'I want Klick eliminated' and are, as you say, 'talking out of your ass'

[Klick]

Goodbye Klick

Ali if you're town stop throwing and use your vote to push Drew-scum through
You don't have to engage further but put your vote on a scum slot

[Klick]

I'd be alright with pairing Drew and Ali?
I'd probably prefer just Drew and yessiree but like ideally we just nuke those three + Ydrasse and have at least 2 scum

[Klick]

~Vote Count 1.3~

RH9 - Klick: yessiree, Ydrasse, Doctor Drew, Alisae,
yessiree - Doctor Drew: Klick, Dannflor,
Aristeia - Infinity 324: Meuh,
Ydrasse - Ausuka: Infinity 324,
Meuh - Alisae: Ausuka,
SirCakez - Dannflor:

KEEP DANCING! : Aristeia, RH9,

Not Voting: SirCakez,

Oh wow I didn't realise how funny the VC is

This probably means I've just got 3 in 4

[Klick]

I am only engaging Klick with the meta read because then calling me scummy made no logical sense. And it took me pushing them to explain that it was meta, yet the only time I have been scum with Klick my play was so much different, like objectively you can't call it the same as here. And Klicks responded by saying I could always change my meta. Also seems a bit odd that Klick would say they were reading up on my meta recently, why me exactly?

Approximately 0% of this is an accurate representation of reality

[Klick]

I don't feel strongly about the Drew town argument but I'm kinda willing to sheep the combination of Dann/Ali on it for the time being

Dann what are your thoughts on Ausuka/Ydrasse, I'm kind of surprised you prefer Ausuka over Ydrasse specifically

[Klick]

Yay. Ty and sorry Drew

My meta read on Drew was like largely off memory and I didn't go verify it. If people still want me to go into it I'm willing but it feels like a bit of a waste

The tldr of what happened in the previous game is that I made an accurate meta dive on Drew's gameplay as town vs scum, but then I managed to read his behaviour in that specific game completely wrong.

I read Drew's town play as fairly confident and not afraid to be confrontational, and I read his scum play as amenable and more trying to please. It wasn't hugely applicable to this game other than to say that I think Drew has a decently wide range, and was much less of an overall point than Drew wanted it to be.

It's also been a fairly long time since that game ended and I think there could have been room for growth there

[Klick]

Dannflor
Aristeia
Infinity 324

SirCakez
RH9

Ausuka
Meuh

Alisae
Ydrasse

Ez game?

[Klick]

Hi Meuh!

[Klick]

It's just Ali/Ydrasse and they've given up

[Klick]

Ari, may I have this dance?

But then we don't kill each other pls and ty

[Klick]

ISOing yessiree I think the people spewed town the most are myself, RH9 and Cakez

I think his plan for the day (and therefore the plan of the scumteam) was to get an elimination on my pair through


I have no issues seeing his interaction with Ali in 300 as S/S

[Klick]

cakez immediately coming to the defense of Klick just screams scum tactic strongarming the conflict and trying to take control of the narrative

i don't even have a take on klick right now, ftr and i'm down with ari's proposed plan to elim her and Klick

lol what? you don't have a take on klick, yet you are perfectly fine with calling out on aris for having similar content as Klick, but write off Klick as "page 1 rvs bs"
do u not see how this indirectly paints Klick in a better light despite him being more scummy imo in that back and forth

i could be biased here because i dont see how ari can be scum here, scum doesn't play with this level of needless aggression right out of the gate

I think this also spews Ari as town

[Klick]

~Vote Count 1.3~

RH9 - Klick: yessiree, Ydrasse, Doctor Drew, Alisae,
yessiree - Doctor Drew: Klick, Dannflor,
Aristeia - Infinity 324: Meuh,
Ydrasse - Ausuka: Infinity 324,
Meuh - Alisae: Ausuka,
SirCakez - Dannflor:

KEEP DANCING! : Aristeia, RH9,

Not Voting: SirCakez,

I think there's at least one more scum on me here and Dann isn't bussing

Ydrasse/Ali should be at least one hit

[Klick]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Klick]

VOTE: Alisae

[Klick]

Loool gg wp team

[Klick]

This game was sweet, a pretty good example of how a town can make themselves known to each other early