Mini 718: DICTATOR Mafia {Game over!}

[Jebus]

/confirm

And a spitball idea, take half of the list and choose from there. Why? This makes our choice easier. From a random sample of six, we have somewhere around 1.5 scum. Same chances, less people. We could cut it down even more, too. Any less than six, and what if we happen to pick up two scum out of four people? Ouchies. Just a thought.

[Jebus]

/confirm

I want to hear a little bit more from people before electing. If we elect mafia as dictator we would be in trouble.

It couldn't hurt too much right now, whether mafia or townie, the dictator will still most likely hit a townie. And we can always overthrow the dictator, as well.

[Jebus]

I forgot,

Elect: occam

E-2

[Jebus]

MonkeyMan, you wouldn't know who's on either side unless you're scum.

[Jebus]

Elect me as dictator and I'll abdicate when you request, and kill who you request.

I'll still let my opinions count, but I'll take yours into consideration.

For now,

unelect
Elect: Moratorium

You speak the most sense.

[Jebus]

'kay.

compete

[Jebus]

I'd probably just sit back and throw out some meat for you guys to fight over so I can get a good look at who seems scummy enough to kill. Then call them out, get a few second opinions, and repeat (or execute). No need to make it complicated.

[Jebus]

I'd be true communist, everyone shares everything (with exceptions of ideas, etc.)

[Jebus]

What are you looking to hear from me?

I really don't want to elect rofl right now, just because of his dead-set desire to execute occam, who really hasn't acted all that scummy :/

[Jebus]

Go back a page, I already said what I'd do.

[Jebus]

Here's the scenario: You have been elected dictator, and you have had a suspician about a certain townsperson being a mafia scum ever since day one. Since you are the dictator and you might as well execute him/her, how would you do it? Would you do it quick and thoughtless? Would you formally state to the victim your reasons, or give him/her any last words? Would you feed them to a giant tortoise, or boil them in a stew with finely-diced vegetables? Just how would you like to execute this townsperson?

Throw out the meat (eg, I think this person is scum for xyz, discuss), and decide from there. It's basically the same scenario as last time you asked :/

[Jebus]

So, Caligulaph, who do you like as scum?

[Jebus]

Although I find Sly to be the execution of the day, I'm not sure as though we should lynch a claimed doc D1.

Then again, 175 could merely be a circumstantial coincidence that Sly has put together.

And not to mention post 176.

Sly, are you in fact a doctor? Straight answer please. Either "I am a doctor" or "I am not a doctor".

[Jebus]

You have chosen three sentences out of the ten in the post you cite, and specifically the first letter of those three/ten sentences that spell "doc", apparently in order to roleclaim before D1 even began

Notice that the paragraph in question is isolated since you don't believe me.

Why should we believe you? Just because someone 'claims' doctor doesn't clear them as pro-town. A little skepticism can go a long way :/

[Jebus]

I have difficulty seeing you as a doctor.

If you don't believe I am the doc, you must believe I am scum. If that is the case, you should stop stalling and kill me as there is no need to use more time if you have scum spotted.

Challenging him to kill you is a very bad way to prove yourself an innocent doctor.

[Jebus]

Hai. So I guess I'm new dictator. So, uhhh, yeah.

One thing, I'd like to point out that there is a role, similar to a politician (irony!), that steals one's overthrow attempt. Mine was stolen today xD

Here's our list of players, for my own reference. And all people killed (3) have flipped town, so I'd guess that 2-3 are scum.

Der Hammer
christiano drago
Jebus
Gorrad
Moratorium
orangepenguin
SiestaGuru
MonkeyMan576
Jazzmyn

I'll go with the same system as Caligulaph, I liked that. So my two officers are to be:
-Moratorium: The one I'd have preferred to end up as Dictator D1.
-Jazzmyn: I'd like to hear much more from you. You haven't sounded scum so far, and I'd like to have someone I'm unsure of as an officer.


And right now, I like MonkeyMan as scum.

Post 41

- Seems like he's making Occam look scum. Say's Occam looked to be pushing hard to get elected, when the whole thing was just random wagon-type stuff. As in, no serious campaign (in fact, hardly any at all) for him. And the post just seems like nonsense altogether.

Post 75 + 78

- Hai, not reading?

Post 216

- Hasn't said anything of much interest in the recent past, and then comes in with this meaningless shout.

And overall, he just looks like he's been laying low since the beginning of the game with the whole "how to beat the setup" stuff.


Other things of note:

sorry guys, but this game just isn't for me. i've requested replacement.

~Post 101

I really don't think this is anything to worry about unless Jazzymn, who replaced rofl, starts to look iffy.

I had no idea the deadline was so near. I think caligulaph is the worst possible choice that could have been made for dictator.

overthrow:caligulaph

~Post 149
This is SlySly's infamous quick-overthrow attempt. It's not this I'm interested in, it's the reactions to it on the following page (7).

Which brings us to Gorrad, my second choice of scum (and I think this may be a little more potent than my case on MM.

Post 159

- Reaction to SlySly's overthrow attempt. Make of it what you will.

Post 187

- Huh? Wouldn't it be okay to have one scum outed for one doctor? I've always considered one doctor to be worth less, if you will than one scum.

Post 191

- I didn't think to check this before, but the post where SlySly breadcrumbs is long before Caligulaph becomes dictator, in which case it may just be a good way for him to have strong ground on his claim if it need come in later on. And this part isn't against Gorrad at all, it's just a note.

Post 205-6

- As SlySly says in 206.

Post 225

- What? Is this your claim? I don't see any pressure/request for you to claim (?)


So, what does everyone think?

General order:
-Citizens = 1/2 of execution decision. And vote, I'll keep track of this.
-Moratorium = 1/4 of decision, as an officer.
-Jazzmyn = 1/4 of decision, as an officer.
-Jebus = small amount of veto power atop the decision.


And on another note, I agree we should get the dictator rotation worked out. My general thought on this is that the dictator makes the next person on the list the successor and abdicates to them at the beginning of the next day period.

[Jebus]

Oh, and note that not everything I say in either of my cases is against the person, though I still find it noteworthy. This doesn't refer to anything in particular.

[Jebus]

I'd think that if you had that on, say, the first page or so, and then you were forced to claim D3 on the 25th page, you'd have your breadcrumb to show that at least if you weren't doctor, you'd been thinking of claiming that since the beginning of the game, which may be a little long to plan something like that out.

Of course, I could be speaking nonsense >.<

[Jebus]

Hai Occam, glad to see you're getting sunlight D:

[Jebus]

Since when is it not a good idea to trade one pro-town for one scum?

3:9 scum on average. Take one away from each side and we get 2:8 scum.

Notice that 1/4 of the people being scum is greater than 1/5 of the people being scum.

Which is why trading one town of just about any role (though it could be argued easily that a cop or vig may be more important to keep) for a scum is worth it.

The only thing I find a doctor to be good for is keeping the mafia from choosing to kill claimed roles if the claim comes from someone outside the mafia. Other than that, the chance of a successful protection is pretty slim. We can live without the doctor. No need to overrate it.

And as for your reasoning, different people think differently. What may be perfectly reasonable to you might not be the same to me.

[Jebus]

I've never heard of such a thing, though that would scare the hell out of me if I were scum. In this game, that'd make three people immune each night. Yipes.

I still don't think that'd happen in this game, though. That'd seem incredibly unbalanced.

We've got 12 players. Subtract three. We've got 9 living players. Only six are killable at night. The mafia, without killin one of there own, can only kill half of the available players. Without some special scum roles, that'd be ridiculously unfair.

I still stand by what I said, though. We can live without our doc here. Let's just focus on killing our scum.

[Jebus]

So why the quick overthrow? Is the "bad feeling" really all you've got to say?

[Jebus]

Well, I can't say that was unexpected. I was going to do the same if things stayed on the same track.

Is the "bad feeling" really all you've got to say?

[Jebus]

Gorrad, are you going to explain your post 225?

[Jebus]

3. Each day, every player has one attempt to overthrow the DICTATOR. A player attempting an overthrow should post

overthrow: DICTATOR

.

Each day's first attempt to overthrow has a 10% base chance of success,

2nd attempt 25%, 3rd attempt 40%, 4th attempt 55%, etc. This means the 7th attempt and any attempts therafter has 100% chance of success.

If the dice rolls 1~7, Jebus is overthrown. Anything else Jebus stays as DICTATOR.

Original Roll String: 1d20 (STATIC)

1 20-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

What?

[Jebus]

Jebus is still my main subject and will be close to execution, unless someone puts forward a better argument for someone else.

I've got one. You overthrew without explaining yourself further than saying "Just a bad feeling", and you seem to be trying to rush today.

I'd overthrow you myself, but mine was stolen. Is that, by chance, why you've got a higher chance of successful overthrow?


And respond to this:

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

I'd really love to hear this.

[Jebus]

EDIT-Post: The first quote has nothing to do with Korlash, that was an unfortunate copypasta error >.<

[Jebus]

EDIT-EDIT: The overthrow without explanation within 24 hours of the start of day, is what it should say.

[Jebus]

Occam, Saddam Hussein, Protown Vanilla Townie, Shot to Death Night 1

That's what's wrong.

[Jebus]

Bai

[Jebus]

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

Respond please, Der Hammer. (Gorrad and MonkeyMan would be nice too ;D)

[Jebus]

Sure.

Overthrow: Der Hammer

[Jebus]

I got a PM from MM saying, in less than ten words, that my overthrow has been stolen for today.

Stolen was the exact word.

[Jebus]

MonkeyMan, I've already explained that I know nothing of the nature of the theft of my overthrow attempt, other than that it was 'Stolen', and that I can't use it today, as MM has confirmed.

I'm starting to get impatient, by the way, in the ways of the case that should have been made against me far before I was overthrown.

Specific question: Der Hammer, why would you use your extra overthrow power on me when I've had two posts as dictator, where both of them I only noted some posts that I didn't quite like and made some explanations on how I would run things? I'd like a lot more than 'Just a bad feeling', please.

Second, towards MonkeyMan: If I can quickly trade one townie for one scum, I would do it, since it lowers the town:scum ratio from 6:3 (or wherever it may stand with the three town deaths. And scum has a decent chance of not being 3 people, but rather two, based on the mechanics. So for the purposes, it's 2-3 scum, where I assume the worst). So anyway, a 6:3 town:scum ratio (which is 1/3 scum, or ~.33) to 5:2 town:scum (which is 2/7 scum, or ~.29). This is always good. And if it can be done right away, it may or may not be better to do this right away, to capitalize on the opportunity. On the other hand, it may also be better to have discussion so we can have a good place to start with next time, or better, not have to sacrifice the townie.

However, I am all for sacrificing one town for one scum if it will push us closer to victory. Especially when we've got less than ideal ratios right now. No need to overrate the doctor, especially. The doctor is the least of the base power roles. A cop can get almost definite results, and a vigilante can make kills and be a large threat to scum. Doctors, however, merely prolong the eventual deaths. Mafia is like a war. People die. The thought that there may be a doctor out there is probably the strongest of the doctors powers, which can still pale in comparison to a cop of vig. Hence why I really don't mind trading one doctor for one scum.

Next one's towards Gorrad:

Frankly, I found Jebus giving weak points, in disagreement with Caligulaph on several points, who I found VERY pro-town, and also general bad vibes. I won't lie, a bit of OMGUS as well, but still.

I'd like some specifics on this. Though my rebuttle as of now (which is weak, as it is defending against another weak point) is simply this: I never said all the points I made were against you/MonkeyMan. I pointed them out because I didn't like the way they came over, and I wanted them to be discussed. As for disagreeing with Caligulaph, I really don't remember a point that I disagreed with him on, so an example'd be nice.

And lastly, a repost at all of them:

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

Answer please.

I am not too pleased that the three players who want to execute Jebus are either V/LA, or posting inconsequential one-liners and ignoring questions.

^This

[Jebus]

So what are we going to do with hammer? Since he has been prodded its easier to get him overthrown if we need it. Jebus has acted quite towny I think, so I still think the overthrow is a bit supicious.

So Id like to see a overthrow happen, just to be a bit surer. But in that case, who would we try to make our dictator (by being the last to overthrow today). I believe moratorium has the highest chance of being town, so if we'd try to get someone as our dictator he does seem to be our best bet here.

Im not going to start this overthrowing of hammer just yet, for Id like to see your responses first.

I agree.

[Jebus]

Why would you be happy with Hammer?

[Jebus]

Oh, and Gorrad, answer my questions.

@MonkeyMan - I'm not picky about getting the best in mafia; it's true that you have to get your hands dirty. I just want something good/positive. The logic isn't flawed, it's just that it's not quite ideal.

[Jebus]

Replacement of Der Hammer, you've got a lot of explaining to do.

[Jebus]

Good point.

We've got to play this out well, though. If we're not careful, we may get caught up.

I'd still like to wait for our friend Der Hammer to be replaced so his replacement can answer some questions. Either way, it's up to you - I'm powerless right now.

[Jebus]

For you, CarnCarn

[Jebus]

For you, CarnCarn

Click on the link above. This goes for MonkeyMan, Gorrad, and especially CarnCarn.

Responses from all please. I want them specific.

And Gorrad, post your case. You said you didn't have it at the time I asked it earlier, I hope you have it now.

[Jebus]

I did side with you against SlySly D1, and I don't think I ever went against it. If I did, it was how you did it, and not that you did it - SlySly was incredibly scummy.

As for the doc for scum thing - the un-NKable doc isn't worth much more than a scum player - in fact, I'd call it even. It's the same as having one less player with a doc, so essentially it's one pro-town and a doc for scum, which is still pretty good.

Excuse me if that part was unclear, my brain is fried at the moment >.<

[Jebus]

I request that you abdicate tonight to Moratorium.

As for the kill, I'd prefer Gorrad over monkeyman. His play here seems consistent with other games I've seen him in, despite his lack of strong arguements. I'm perfectly willing to support his execution, but I think Gorrad is a better kill for today.

[Jebus]

You're welcome

Though I'm creating the WIFOM situation for the mafia - I honestly doubt SiestaGuru would take that request, instead I'd think he'd choose someone else just because I said to abdicate to you.

[Jebus]

That's how I got it.

MM, deadline extention to give SiestaGuru a chance to do something?

Worth a try, anyway.

[Jebus]

I've already stated my thoughts. I'm anti-Gorrad, so if you're keeping votes,

vote: Gorrad

[Jebus]

What the fuzzies was that? o.0

[Jebus]

Moratorium - speak now, in case you're not here to say it later.

[Jebus]

Meh. Good setup in terms of mechanics, anyway.

Just out of curiousity, can I see the scum qt?