Open 889 | Secrets of the Anuket Topaz | fin.

[gob]

Please listen to me guys.

[gob]

Absolutely nobody hammer until i am home at least

[gob]

Reread page 83 and 84. There is a VC on 83 you can look at to get the state. Look at where the votes are moving

I probably wont reread

Like this is an outrageous reaction, but I don’t see much reevaluation happening from Prism here. I am strongly against an imaginality execution precisely because of the context jjh also pointed out (that I highlighted in a previous post), but gob clearly has an agenda and no set of facts or additional critical thinking is going to change that. Which is blatantly Scummy. But whatever, let’s pretend that executing me wins the game so we can all feel better about ourselves.

this was mostly a joke lol

[gob]

Reread page 83 and 84. There is a VC on 83 you can look at to get the state. Look at where the votes are moving

I probably wont reread

Like this is an outrageous reaction, but I don’t see much reevaluation happening from Prism here. I am strongly against an imaginality execution precisely because of the context jjh also pointed out (that I highlighted in a previous post), but gob clearly has an agenda and no set of facts or additional critical thinking is going to change that. Which is blatantly Scummy. But whatever, let’s pretend that executing me wins the game so we can all feel better about ourselves.

this was mostly a joke lol

This is a straight up lie.

wtf no its not lol.

Are you just the wolf here?

[gob]

Reread page 83 and 84. There is a VC on 83 you can look at to get the state. Look at where the votes are moving

I probably wont reread

Like this is an outrageous reaction, but I don’t see much reevaluation happening from Prism here. I am strongly against an imaginality execution precisely because of the context jjh also pointed out (that I highlighted in a previous post), but gob clearly has an agenda and no set of facts or additional critical thinking is going to change that. Which is blatantly Scummy. But whatever, let’s pretend that executing me wins the game so we can all feel better about ourselves.

this was mostly a joke lol

This is a straight up lie.

wtf no its not lol.

Are you just the wolf here?

Why don’t you do what you told jjh you would do then and prove me wrong?

Im at work for another 2 hours dude

[gob]

Let’s all calm down. Only the coolest heads will prevail.

[gob]

You haven't gotten to it in like 4 days but here you are again whining up a storm and fighting with me over our own slots. Bizarre how one of these you always have time for, usually within the hour.

if I do flip Town

What did he mean by this?

[gob]

I read pages 83 and 84. I find it interesting how the game itself sort of died when moving from imaginality.

Honeslty i might be conf-biasing too much but this just made me think imaginality is scum more.

What did i miss JJH?

[gob]

You missed the people making votes and how the alignment of the people voting might affect how they vote

I didnt miss that.

[gob]

VOTE: Imaginality

What if we did this

wait a second WTF lol

[gob]

UNVOTE: Imaginality

[gob]

Prism can you trust me fully and go Firebringer here?

If not I will relent and go Andres

[gob]

I think people arent looking at Firebringer because he hasnt posted recently

[gob]

The question is do you trust in my skills?

I wasn't joking with what I said yesterday.

I think if we are to vote between Andres and imaginality, we do imaginality first. Andres has scum potential in that pool (Andres/Firebringer), but I feel like it's Firebringer. One thing I noticed is that Firebringer jumped on Titus and then immediately camel jumped on him.

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I noticed this at the time btw, but I don't like using this kind of logic.

[gob]

The question is do you trust in my skills?

I wasn't joking with what I said yesterday.

I think if we are to vote between Andres and imaginality, we do imaginality first. Andres has scum potential in that pool (Andres/Firebringer), but I feel like it's Firebringer. One thing I noticed is that Firebringer jumped on Titus and then immediately camel jumped on her.

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I noticed this at the time btw, but I don't like using this kind of logic.

Fixed.

[gob]

sorry was busy hiding out in the scum pt

whats the reason im scum again gob. vote count analysis or something?

viewtopic.php?p=13973823#p13973823

[gob]

(Note for completeness: I do defer on some meta reads where subjective knowledge is king.)

Oh no... the one thing you SHOULDNT defer to someone on.

[gob]

I'm out of energy. Get him for me Prism.

[gob]

How is that a nothing read?

Firebringer/Ydrasse/Andres/JJH has wolf 100% of the time

Firebringer/Andres is most reasonable small pool

Firebringer has been scummier than Andres, looking at his votes. His actions speak louder than words.

[gob]

Guys, like seriously. You must understand that I am not just making shit up.

Learn these terms "wolf on wagon" and "wolf off wagon"

We are hunting not players, but worlds. The winning combination.

[gob]

You and Ydrasse voting Titus? Or Andres, JJH being off wagon? I am not even looking at that.

The only thing I care about is who was not on the Alisae wagon. This pool contains a wolf, mechanically, because the mafia

have

to vote certain ways. I cannot explain exactly why, since I didn't really learn this myself I was just told about this "life hack" so to speak.
Let's take 9player for example

1. Day 1 is misboot = 1-2 wolf on wagon, 0-1 wolves off wagon. If the two wolves werent voting, you would be able to tell.
2. Day 2 you solve whichever pool is easier. With night kills you also kill on-wagon if the kill was off-wagon.

So for example

Gob, Alisae, Ydrasse, Titus, JJH, Exacerbated, Blinzer, Elijah, Deleter

Gob(5): Alisae, Ydrasse, Titus, JJH, Exacerbated
Alisae(3): Blinzer, Elijah, Deleter

NK is on Blinzer = wolf 100% on Gob wagon. Potentially spews Elijah & Deleter town.
NK is on Ydrasse = wolves on both wagons.

Basically. This is just correct 100% of the time. And I am using this sort of logic to reach my conclusions in this game. I feel like I've explained it a million times a million different ways at this point.

If you don't want to ruin the game by learning the cheat-sheet, that's fine, but just understand I am not pulling things out of my ass.

[gob]

Guys, like seriously. You must understand that I am not just making shit up.

Learn these terms "wolf on wagon" and "wolf off wagon"

We are hunting not players, but worlds. The winning combination.

You are greatly testing my patience. Not one have you introduced a novel concept to the players at this table. You are greatly overestimating yourself, but this is routine. The degree to which you are underestimating your peers is astounding.

I'm not underestimating you guys lol. You think I'm Andres or T3 or whoever. But I am arguing my point. That is what this game is for, and I do NOT roll over quietly.

I am just explaining how I got to my reads. And I am saying, please just go use my last post and look at ANY random 9p game (that is not crazy weird setup). You will find what I say is true.

[gob]

Prism, I've been around the BLOCK my friend.

You are probably underestimating me to a certain extent.

[gob]

VOTE: gob

the fact gob just keeps ignoring me pushing snivy and not just arguing that i was scum bussing is like so bad faith.

all these vote count arguments are obfuscating actual analysis.
gob could be town. Idc right now. This is boring

LOL, dude vote count arguments are basically the realest analysis there is. People's votes, especially the ones at the EoD, it is the strongest piece of evidence to show what alignment someone is.

Anyway, I do have other shit against you. Like you and Camel jumping on Titus at the same time.

[gob]

I cannot explain exactly why, since I didn't really learn this myself I was just told about this "life hack" so to speak.

somehow i missed this one and i am HOWLING

It is in fact what happened. My reads were always good, but I couldn't "solve" games, especially big ones. With wagon analysis you can actually solve.

[gob]

Oh my god, okay. Whatever whatever.

[gob]

It is what it is.

[gob]

Tough scene man.

[gob]

I'll pretend to jump off a bridge if there's no scum in [StD/Imaginality/Andres/T3]

and @Gob, I agree with you that Firebringer could be scum but I just think he can also be town and the above pool is like, ?guaranteed? to have his partner.

If it's something dumb like Fire/JJH or Fire/Ydra I just give up on this shit tbh

At this point StD is not in the pool. What I said + what other people said about how StD would've left before camel, i think that's true.

I think if Andres is mafia then FIrebringer is town and vice versa. I think i actually prefer the Andres wagon to an imaginality one.

[gob]

Yea I am not voting until the very end, lol. You all are stuck with me for as long as possible.

[gob]

Mafia has more than one royal family...

[gob]

Let's do it up.

[gob]

I'll pretend to jump off a bridge if there's no scum in [StD/Imaginality/Andres/T3]

and @Gob, I agree with you that Firebringer could be scum but I just think he can also be town and the above pool is like, ?guaranteed? to have his partner.

If it's something dumb like Fire/JJH or Fire/Ydra I just give up on this shit tbh

At this point StD is not in the pool. What I said + what other people said about how StD would've left before camel, i think that's true.

I think if Andres is mafia then FIrebringer is town and vice versa. I think i actually prefer the Andres wagon to an imaginality one.

i have to again ask how you come with these assumptions/reasons.
Because i frankly don't see how me and andres couldn't be a team from your perspective if we just go on vca since i don't think ive voted andres at all in this game. What basis is there that you got to one of us is town and other has to be mafia.

Explain it like im 5

Day 1 wagon = misboot
misboot wagon = most likely has maf on it
idea = mafia don't vote the same since it implicates them as partners, especially in this setup where mafia have to vote to kill people.
conclusion = mafia will be on separate wagons
conclusion = wagons create PoE pools in themselves.

Ydrasse+Firebringer voted Titus Day 1
JJH on StD and Andres on Ydrasse

This is the pool I am working with. I feel confident on StD. Ydrasse I feel less confident in now, but day 2 I felt confident so I'm pretty sure they're town. JJH I think is also most likely town at this point.

That leaves you and Andres. i do not like Andres' vote onto StD. Felt very opportunistic. In fact a lot of his plays this day have felt opportunistic. BUT, he does seem to be trying to solve. You haven't done much this game I feel like. It's usually just jokey pop-ins. Usually people who are constantly joking are scum.

The time-read on you and camel is also there but most people don't find that valid.

I think it's most likely imaginality as the other wolf, but I will deal with that all later most likely. The imaginality wagon stinks, and on the off chance JJH is a deep wolf, I don't want to go that way today.

[gob]

It doesn't really matter because none of you will believe me or understand it anyway.

I will probably just use this, and keep it to myself and make up dumb reasoning in later games.

[gob]

i think your theory makes some sense gob

it's just that there's also context to consider and andres being scum would still fit in your narrative

Well it does. Which is why I think it's Fire > Andres > imaginality for me.

[gob]

I still don't see how your theory can't make it so that both me and andres are town or both are scum. Like whats the line in breaking that.

But im done asking I don't think your going to make sense here and trying to pry you to give me context/understanding of how you see certain votes/actions is not getting me anywhere

I have a lot of experience.

Many years playing forum mafia on various sites in multiple languages.
Many years playing 1v1 wolf-style games.
Multiple games against some of the best players in teh world.

My reads are like 80% accurate, just right off the bat.

I also think jumping on Titus late, is scummy in itself. Even ignoring camel coming in right after, Firebringer jumped on second to last.
Another "dirty trick" in wagon analysis is that the people who jump on last, or switch late are mafia. Again, a hard-and-fast trick that doesnt always apply, but if you just believe in it, you find it working out the majority of the time.

---

Anyway, you are right that you and andres could both be town through my theory. That is why there was 1 mafia in the pool of four with Ydrasse/JJH/Andres/Fire. I just spent time and determined you are the most likely mafia, cutting out all the bullshit noise.

It is unlikely you are BOTH mafia though, so if you flip town, then Andres is 100% mafia and we pin him tomorrow. He most likely leaves today though so whatever.

[gob]

It doesn't really matter because none of you will believe me or understand it anyway.

I will probably just use this, and keep it to myself and make up dumb reasoning in later games.

Your reasoning has literally been in use on this site since 2004. Here's a quick 2007 link for fun.

It is not novel. Players on this website learn about it during their first game. Players at this table do not rely on it exclusively for a reason. They are extremely skeptical of your use because they have learned the limitations of it over time. One of the most common errors is failing to appreciate basic conditional probability, which is that when you chain assumptions on the basis that they are

probably true

together, the final conclusion becomes significantly less likely. Your analysis is riddled with these unsound assumptions chained together, which is why everyone thinks it's awful.

It's funny because there are actually so little limitations with wagon analysis. All it does it paint the game into 1-3 worlds. (2-6 in multiball). You solve along those lines.

It's basically a FRAMEWORK where you place your reads, and the output is the winning combination of nailing the scumteam everytime.

The ISSUE with this is mafia teams that bus right out of the game (which I think is the right strategy most of the time, since it doesn't decrease the mafia's nightkilling potential [usually, in good setups it does] and it's harder to catch 1 person rather than 2 or 3). But most teams don't play that way Day 1 so it's easy pickings. This setup also basically ensures that mafia can't bus.

[gob]

did u guys know that before pikachu, they were considering making jigglypuff the series mascot?

[gob]

This pool contains a wolf, mechanically, because the mafia

have

to vote certain ways. I cannot explain exactly why

, since I didn't really learn this myself I was just told about this "life hack" so to speak.

Player who doesn't understand the theory behind wagon analysis insists it has no limitations and it is everyone else who does not understand the tool. Bold.

If you have seen what I have seen, you wouldn't be acting the way you are.

[gob]

This pool contains a wolf, mechanically, because the mafia

have

to vote certain ways. I cannot explain exactly why

, since I didn't really learn this myself I was just told about this "life hack" so to speak.

Player who doesn't understand the theory behind wagon analysis insists it has no limitations and it is everyone else who does not understand the tool. Bold.

If you have seen what I have seen, you wouldn't be acting the way you are.

I suspect I am acting the way I am because I have seen much, much more, but suit yourself. You are the superior talent.

See I am not claiming superiority over you in anyway, especially in the talent department lol.

I am just saying I have read the book of mafia directly. I don't get it 100% because, frankly I am low IQ. But, I know that it is correct and I have used it to start solving games, not just winning them.

Like mechanically, certain people become projected scum

[gob]

Okay. I will seriously try to just play "normally" and read "normally" from here on out.

But can you at least try to understand where I am coming from?

[gob]

Prism: I work hard to get reads 20% better than chance

Gob: I have 80% read accuracy

Gob: I'm not claiming superiority in any way

Yea basically.

[gob]

VOTE: Firebringer

[gob]

I'm not following. Couldn't they be partners with each other?

[gob]

idk

[gob]

I am not voting imaginality

Weren't you dogging me earlier for hopping off imaginality when you hopped on it? What happened?

[gob]

VOTE: T3

sup people, also down to vote

Post ASAP confirming you're not blitzing imaginality.

I am willing to vote imaginality if everyone wants to hammer.

[gob]

I really don't understand how people are saying I am low hanging fruit or working in favor of scum.

I get that a lot, but I think people just straight up don't like me and the way I talk and they just justify why I "suck" after the fact.

[gob]

I have simultaneously the highest and lowest self esteem IN THE WORLD.

[gob]

I am not voting imaginality

Weren't you dogging me earlier for hopping off imaginality when you hopped on it? What happened?

Well, the primary purpose of my imag vote was to create a imag wagon and get people to make votes and really harden those disassociatives. Basically to watch people put their money where their mouth is, and you immediately took your money away instead

I don't actually want to elim imag

You'd be 1 million times stronger as a player if you had full self confidence.

[gob]

Looks like a bunch of jokesters have run over town.

[gob]

This is me actually.

[gob]

Prism, Shirou

You guys thinking wat im thinkin?

[gob]

How would they know

Cause its about you and they may be thinking the same thing I am.

[gob]

Oh are you trying to float a wagon on me?

That's pretty fucking wild honestly

Not for today. But youre actually right it is wild and probably wrong.

[gob]

VOTE: imaginality

[gob]

Shirou, can we do STD

You've had STD in your scumreads since day 1 and you haven't voted there since RVS. There's two yellow squares with your name attached to them that you could turn green

We can but you would need to get him to E-2/E-1 first because I don't have the energy to tryhard here in hopes of a StD wagon 48 hours away from deadline

were not doing fucking std

[gob]

I'm not moving my vote unless it's to avoid a plurality elim on a townread.

I'm not even willing to vote imaginality anymore. There was a point where the votes not on him were me and 3 extremely strong townreads, ie. I can deduce he's town unless scum is throwing.

Huh? Doesnt seem like sound logic to me.

[gob]

Do you know what happens if we vote out a mafia today gob?

Game ends, right?

[gob]

Do you know what happens if we vote out a mafia today gob?

Game ends, right?

Yes. It takes 6 people to vote out a player. There are 10 players alive. If everyone but you, the player, and your 3 strongest townreads are voting a player, does it make sense to vote that player? If the townreads are correct, who is at least one scum voting?

It makes sense but its a bad practice. a proper mafia team will always have one of their people go deep.

[gob]

Do you think that holds true if STD is scum and escapes?

In that specific scenario I guess you could be shot

but how about this, if StD escapes and you're shot, I can vote for Gob tomorrow if that's what you're 100% sure it's the solve.

wtf dude

[gob]

Holy moly im so goated

[gob]

We really should have killed imaginality yesterday.

[gob]

You still think it's imaginality?

I'm thinking it's either you or Ydrasse right now.

[gob]

You think scum!camel was voting scum!imaginality and scum!fire decided to help with a scum!camel wagon?

what are you referring to exactly?

[gob]

It's Ydrasse.

proof?

VOTE: ydrasse

[gob]

I can tell there is something I am missing.

[gob]

Here is the thing, wouldn't Ydrasse have left before camel?

She had quite a bit of heat Day 1.

[gob]

VOTE: JJH927

[gob]

wtf

[gob]

You're going to die early if you run that much.

[gob]

Here is the thing, wouldn't Ydrasse have left before camel?

She had quite a bit of heat Day 1.

Ydrasse had quite a bit of heat day 1. . . from Titus. Imag and andres were also there.
Day 2, the day on which the scum left, Ydrasse got no heat whatsoever, and she was already on the Titus wagon when Camel decided to leave.

Most of Ydrasse’s heat day 1 was from inactive players who changed their vote at the end. Day 2 she got heat in the beginning but i spoke a lot of it down. It was in the beginning though

[gob]

Here is the thing, wouldn't Ydrasse have left before camel?

She had quite a bit of heat Day 1.

Ydrasse had quite a bit of heat day 1. . . from Titus. Imag and andres were also there.
Day 2, the day on which the scum left, Ydrasse got no heat whatsoever, and she was already on the Titus wagon when Camel decided to leave.

Most of Ydrasse’s heat day 1 was from inactive players who changed their vote at the end. Day 2 she got heat in the beginning but i spoke a lot of it down. It was in the beginning though

Unless I am misunderstanding you here, isn't this basically what I am saying and the exact reasoning for why Ydrasse would not leave before camel?

I just dont feel camel got mor heat than Ydrasse earlier. I see what youre saying though.

[gob]

why exactly am i a wolf again

Why are you not a wolf? Lets start there.

You could elab your voting reasons for each vote

[gob]

i don’t think i’ve ever been as lost in a game as i have this one which is a very unique experience. and it sucks

Qft.

I don't think it's Ydrasse.

If its not Ydrasse then its you or JJH.

[gob]

Seems nobody has cared and is wiping their hands of this game. Everyone its not over, we’ve been here 1 month finish it out strong

[gob]

It’s definitely Ydrasse here

[gob]

i kind of sort of a little bit

think it could be dragons

Do you not think StD leaves at some point? Also good morning

[gob]

Doesn’t seem too relevant

[gob]

StD is just unlikely all things considered. Does anyone have JJH, imaginality m, ydrasse scum games?

I have a hard time thinking its JJH here since his logic has been consistent and non-agenda’d.

[gob]

UNVOTE: jjh

[gob]

StD is just unlikely all things considered. Does anyone have JJH, imaginality m, ydrasse scum games?

I have a hard time thinking its JJH here since his logic has been consistent and non-agenda’d.

Have you updated your VCA analysis at all now that we actually have two red flips in hand?

Yea the jist is its ydrasse or jjh because of the votes. I can spell it all put when im at my computer

[gob]

lol random emoji

[gob]

We really don't have that much time left. I think it's time we make the final vote.

Here are the people I think could still possibly be mafia
JJH
imaginality

everyone else I am ruling out totally. T3 I am not sure on, but other people seem sure enough so its good.

Imaginality would be the wolf on the wagon from yesterday, and JJH would be the wolf off.
Usually it would be a lock that that the wolf is off wagon, however the setup really incentivizes scum flash voting like how Firebringer and camel did Day 2 or 3 whenver.

JJH his play doesn't really direct towards any winning endgame though. Like the way he played with Firebringer I don't think makes sense if you're trying to win. All of his analysis leads nowhere and he doesn't really make strides as a player. Today he is even sheeping Shirou. I basically think that is just how he plays. He hasn't really forced any agenda today, and I've been pressuring the slot since yesterday.

-

Imaginality would be the wolf on wagon in this scenario. If I ignore the leaving shenanigans, I think this slot still flips scum most likely. They've been super going under the radar all game. They pushed me for a bit, but that read seems to have completely died and they're just sheeping others. However, the thing that prevents me from locking them is imaginality was first on Andres' wagon and they had reason to be on it.

[gob]

Actually you know, I really shouldn't rule out StD. I am willing to hear about StD today.

[gob]

Does the fact that Firebringer sat on imaginality for eons yesterday, including a long stretch at E-1 and at the end when we had decided to do one of Andres/imaginality, do nothing for you?

Explain that to me again as if I am stupid.

[gob]

Firebringer spent a large chunk of yesterday on imaginality. This included a good stretch of time where he was at E-2 and very likely to go through, and a small section where I put imaginality at E-1.

Scum loses if any scum player gets voted out. This means Firebringer/imaginality were really playing with fire (ha) yesterday.

Who unvoted or switched votes at E-1 to make it not E-1?

[gob]

I did. Ydrasse and I are both mechanically clear now, so that isn't too helpful unfortunately.

You can see Firebringer's vote here, and Andres/I vote imaginality in the next page or two. Firebringer doesn't seem too worried about losing in his next few posts.

Okay, that makes sense.

It's either JJH or StD. Or T3.

I actually think I go JJH > T3 > StD here. StD has a lot more anti-spew than T3.

[gob]

I see it.

[gob]

I'm pretty sure it's just jjh but I'll still do my due diligence when I have the energy, kind of drained right now.

Alright. I am actually completely free for EoD tomorrow so we can run the clock down if we want.

[gob]

T3/StD
JJH

The easy answer is JJH. However the correct answer may be something else.

[gob]

Personally I read Dragons earlier and don't think it's him but I'm eager to listen to any counterarguments, I'm not terribly confident in it.

Why is T3 clear? I would not do the clear checking thing with anyone else btw.

[gob]

Are we ending this tonight cause I will sleep soon.

[gob]

Any last thoughts in case I vote while you're asleep, gob?

I'd prefer more from Ydrasse before I do anything but shrug.

I can stay up for a bit, I work a half day tomorrow.

Ydrasse doing stuff doesnt really help much. She is confirmed, that is the best she can do for you really. In the grand scheme of things. Myself included.

[gob]

I AM NOT KING OF THE TOWN

WHO PUT ME HERE IN THIS POSITION

I'm only saying this stuff because we will need the full time if we're going to switch off JJH realistically. And if we panic switch-back we'll need even more time.

[gob]

@Ydrasse
@Prism
Let me hear your T3 cases roight quick.

[gob]

On the real though, between the two it looked like you were leaning jjh.

I think T3's posting around Fire was bizarre and perhaps forced distancing yesterday, but I think Fire's vote is a bit +town and I'm a bit confused as to why T3 leaves over Fire unless they both expected me to harddefend the slot.

I think Fire leaving makes a lot of sense if jjh is the one intended to go deep. The biggest + here for jjh is a combination of his and camel's reciprocal pushes on each other Day 2. I also want to credit stalling out Day 2 for partner interactions a little bit, too, even though that's sketchy.

I'd lean jjh right now but it's a close call for me, at least, if you have any thoughts.

I don't really think T3 leaves over Fire. Fire was getting more heat at EoD than T3. T3 has been not scumread a lot throughout the game. I wasnt scumreading them, you werent scumreading them, I don't think Shirou was (iirc wasnt T3 SRing Shirou at one point?).

T3 hammered Andres after Firebringer. If T3 was partners with Fire, then T3 would have incentive to end the day at that time since Fire was getting heat. I am not really sure about their interactions at EoD. You'll have to show me those. I may be imagining things but I feel like Fire and JJH had weird interactions.

With all that said, JJH was off wagon. I find it more likely that the mafia is off wagon. Since if imaginality is town, which it is looking like they are, then it was a TvT wagon scenario and the mafia were probably hedging their bets between the two. I don't really know why T3 would implicate himself so heavily by voting right after Fire.

[gob]

jjh, the triple ISO has swooped down like an angel. The conversations with Titus are like being stuck in an infinite townpoint loop in a pinball machine.

speaking of which, {jjh927, std, andres, imaginality} are in my poe, i could compromise on {T3, Prism} but i dont think we'll get there

Yeah one of T3 and Prism is definitely scum here

I forgot about this. Do you have any thoughts on it?

camel is scumreading jjh. JJH is placed first in the reads list too. I'm not going to but you could probably look back at camel's scum games and see where he places his scummates in his PoEs.

If T3 was scum here, then camel and Fire would be setting T3 up to leave first and to get towncred... idk maybe a plan that they gave up on.

[gob]

I wasn't in those games so doesn't really matter to me.

[gob]

Alright im here. Lets finish this

[gob]

So yeah, Imaginality or T3. Honestly there's strong reasons for and against both and that's why it's so damn hard to make a decision here

Wait wait wait, didn't you talk about imaginality being really spewed town earlier Day 4?

I am still willing to hear about imaginality.

[gob]

These two VCs haunted me all night.

VC 2.5

imaginality [4]:Titus, Save The Dragons, gob, Prism

camelCasedSnivy

[2]:

jjh927

,

Firebringer

Titus [1]: imaginality
Shirou [1]: Andresvmb

jjh927

[1]:

camelCasedSnivy

Not Voting [3]:Shirou, Ydrasse, T3

VC 2.8

Titus [7]: imaginality, Ydrasse, Prism, T3,

jjh927

,

Firebringer

,

camelCasedSnivy

imaginality [4]: Titus, Save The Dragons, gob, Shirou
gob [1]: Andresvmb

The second one kinda suggests jjh is town and imaginality is scum.

If JJH is scum, then imaginality is town. But then why would all 3 mafia jump on Titus back to back to back? Maybe they just didnt expect people to notice.

[gob]

If JJH is scum, then imaginality is town.

You just continue making incredible insights like this

Dude.

You guys have shit on me all game for my reads. So I have been going beat for beat with my thought process, and laying it all out.

Why the fuck you still feel the need to go at me, idk. You should be going at T3 or imaginality.

[gob]

What questions would you like me to answer

1. Case on JJH
2. Case on Imaginality (if you want)

I don't have any further questions

[gob]

I am on a liquid only diet today and i feel extrmeely tired

[gob]

Oh we actually have more time than I thought… the bad news is I probably wont be at EoD

[gob]

Okay its become apparent to me that Prism doesn't really know the answer and isn't making any progress so I am going to take the reigns here.

@T3
Explain why JJH is scum. If you do not feel like JJH is scum, explain why.Cite the following sources: interaction with camel/fire, voting habits, overall reasoning.

@JJH
Explain why T3 is scum. If you do not feel like T3 is scum, explain why. Cit the following sources: interactions with camel/fire, voting habits, overall reasoning.

[gob]

Explain again if you explained before. In real time we will talk about this.

[gob]

If you do not have the time then I understand, just do what you can.

[gob]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[gob]

Are we still allowed to talk even though it is hammer?

[gob]

Well if its a confirmed win then yea, I'm the mafia.

I wasn't trying to slow roll or anything. I was at work when the blitz happened and was checking on my phone to make sure nobody unvoted after I posted. Then Prism unvoted in the meantime.

First, for my own play: I wolfed well early on (classic combo of being scumread early into getting hardcleard), and I played the strategy well (becoming people's top/hard town). However later on in the game my play stalled a bit pretty clearly. I feel like I should've had a stronger push on JJH/imaginality/Ydrasse at the end.

I was really impressed with Prism, imaginality and JJH. Prism even read me like a book today, seeing I unvoted to prevent anyone else from getting cleared.

[gob]

I am interested in why people thought me leaving over Fire would've made the game 100% scum victory.

I saw Prism and I think JJH say that

[gob]

Well played, I think you had some early meta stuff. I'm really annoyed but I'm willing to forgive since it looks like you didn't know better.

The issue with the slow roll is that I told you I would unvote immediately. I set it up specifically so that you could confirm exactly what was happening and blitz.

Well I harbored a small fear that you were gonna flip on me or were testing me. So I had to play it safe.

In a vacuum, you TRing me actually pinned me in a way. Since it forced me to TR you, but I was susceptible to having that flipped on me.

[gob]

Yea I felt bad lol.

[gob]

Yes i had a good position of being able to make good posts against Fire and not have anyone vote him. In retrospect the push against Fire was good it seems. I originally thought that whole line of play was a misplay.

This was a fun game and a good setup.

[gob]

The phases are a bit too long for the setup but the setup itself is perfect. The mafia’s night kill basically becomes their bussing wagon.

Would love to go from the townside